Why so negative????

[loribell]

I'm not sure if this post is okay. Hope I don't upset the regulators to much. I just couldn't take any more of this. I had really been enjoying reading this board but the negativeness and hysteria is getting out of hand.

Sgtpet it's fine that you made the decision not to buy into DVC but why are you being so negative to everyone else's decision to buy. If we are happy with our decisions to buy it shouldn't be a problem for you. You are also scaring away people for something that you don't even know for sure. This is an individual family decision to make. If you are that unhappy just forget about buying DVC but please stop with all the negative responses to every one else. Enough already!

And for all of the rest of you speculating wildly about the DC why don't you just wait until the point charts come out. If it isn't as bad as you have speculated you have scared off potential members.

[sgtpet]

I have no problem with current DVC owners. But I feel that when I first questioned about being a DVC owner. I only received positive feedback. Obviously nothing in life is completely positive. Then I hear the Disney has raised rates 37% and owners state it is not that bad. I am sorry but an increase of 37% besides your own salary or your homes value is a huge negative.

My interest to purchase is gone, and I know these boards a pro Disney, as so am I. I have been to Disney many times in my life and will continue to do so in the future. But to not help others is not within my belief system. If I find things to improve then I will reconsider my position.

Please don't be angered at the criticism. It is not the owners faults. I admire all of you to make the commitment to vacation at the greatest vacation spot in the USA.

[brittsmum1998]

AFter reading thru the posts..I usually "visit" at least twice a day, I must agree w/ above. Sgt. you are being awfully negative. You probably received many "positive responses" due to the fact that most people love there DVC. I'm sure we all respect your decision not to buy into DVC but to replay to each post w/ a negative critisism (sp) is something else. DVC is NOt for everyone. I think we all can agree on that. We won the "lottery" recently allowing us the option of adding more pts at our BW home and we grabbed it!! We actually went out to dinner to "celebrate". DVC brings alot of joy to most people who own. For those who aren't happy and own, sell it!! There are tons of people on the waitlist that will grab it at most any price.

[Terry S]

Loribell, I completely and totally agree with you. I only started reading these boards about 2 weeks ago and I was completely hooked, just like the first time I walked into WDW. There was so much good information, I just kept coming back for more. The last two days there has only been negativeity (is that a word?). I hope people can get passed this and move on. Lets remember what this board is all about "the happiest place on earth". Tink, how about throwing a little pixie dust on this board and making all the negativeity go away!!

[loribell]

a little tired of all the negative responses not just from you but from a few others as well. I have just returned from making my purchase. Hey I love it so much it was a great excuse for another quick trip with cheap airfare. I know I didn't have to do it in person but I love disney.

It just seemed strange that before I left I saw very few negative responses but after I returned there are many. All over speculation of something that no one knows for sure. Some of it has even been confirmed as mistaken. What if those higher rates are because of a special event that would have made rates higher anyway or for concierge level rooms. Then the point cost should be higher, it is higher for a 2 bedroom then it is for a 1 bedroom, isn't it?

I hope some of the negative responses can stop. We all love our Disney, do we not?

[sgtpet]

How about reality? Not negativity. To purchase a DVC is more than pixie dust. It is a major decision. All of the sales information/marketing tools pushes flexibility. The Disney Cruise is shown even at the front page of the official Disney Vacation Club site. Now it is apparent that if I want to take the Cruise I would be better doing it on my own than through DVC. Of course if I purchased a DVC I would expect to spend 30-33 years going to that or other DVC resort. But the other 7-10 years I would have chosen a flexible choice. I feel that there is false advertising going on.

So in conclusion, am I negative for bringing this to the attention of individuals that may make a purchase on a DVC resort or is it negative that Disney is misleading the "potential" members with its marketing.

I have no problem with any of you. I am saddened by your negativity for voicing a difference of opinion.

I think we all could use some of that pixie dust for the DVC to correct its marketing schemes.

Honesty is the best policy, not pixie dust.

[loribell]

Your's is not just a diffence of opinion. You are putting it in every thread that is posted by someone about points or buying. It has reached the point that it is to much. I'm sure by now everyone knows how you feel. You do not have to buy.

[Granny]

I think this board is intended to be a forum for asking questions and discussing DVC. In that mode, the folks that are upset with the apparent rise in DC point costs have a right to make their views known.

Having said that, I think we get the point and that we understand the complaints from those who are disgruntled. Tacking on the same complaint to multiple threads just gums up the boards.

We all concede that if you bought into DVC mainly for the flexibility to trade to DC, then you are justifiably angry.

Just please don't make it your life's mission to add your anger onto virtually every post that gets near the subject.

Thanks,

[Chuck S]

I just found how the 'ignore a poster' option works.

[Dancind]

Chuck, please let us know how that works! If this poster were actually a DVC member that had a factual reason for feeling cheated by the agreement they signed, I could understand a little venting. But he decided NOT to buy into DVC, and he's still griping. I'm buying, and I don't feel cheated at all, quite the opposite.

[Doctor P]

The argument about the 37% increase is fallacious. Remember that the 37% increase, as best we can tell, is one that has taken place over several years. There apparently was no increase in the DC point schedule since 1998, according to earlier posts on the boards. While it may have been easier to take and to understand if the increase had been done a little bit, one year at a time, the simple fact is that the 37% increase over four years is approximately 8% per year (compounded). This is a hefty increase, but hardly highway robbery when one looks at it from this perspective. I, too, would prefer that there not be point increases, and prefer that the jumps not be as abrupt as they apparently were around New Year's in 2002, but the rate of increase, all things considered, is not quite as shocking as it might first appear.

[vernon]

Loribell to be fair I think a certain amount of negativity is fair and should be expected WHEN/IF DISNEY IS IN ERROR. EVERY SINGLE DVC owner has a large financial interest in DVC and we have seen an erosion of the benefits over time By definition if the benefits are eroded, so will the value. Not only do we have a financial interest but we all love Disney, care about the place AND WANT TO GO ON VACATION THERE at a time that suits us.

As I explained in other topic the ability to switch into WDW hotels at a sensible cost is important, it isn't just a "nice perk". By definition the points system is very flexible but it has one inherent flaw. That is IF enough of the membership want to visit at the same times, there isn't the capacity at DVC resorts. There needs to be an "over flow" in place to absorb that possibility and it shouldn't be prohibitively expensive. IT IS VITAL in order for DVC to work properly that switching into WDW hotels is a workable option. If someone at Disney has lost sight of that fact then we have the right to try and draw their attention to it, be that writing on boards like these, writing to the management ( which I will be if things turn out as bad as I expect they might) or putting the question at the annual meeting ( if I can find out how to do that).
I can't see an occassion that I would want to use the WDW hotel option but that doesn't mean I'll "keep quiet so not to upset anyone" because I think this is important, not just to me but to anyone that owns. If I sound alarmist, sorry, but I'm alarmed. I'd rather make a noise BEFORE the deal is finalised so it gives management a chance to review their policy before they find they have a full scale riot on their hands BUT they have already printed all the literature and pushed the policy through. IMHO it's going to leave a bad taste in the mouth and it will rightly affect sales.


Whether or not the "new charges" are all as bad as we are led to believe isn't the only issue. I understand that DVC negotiates on a yearly basis BUT it seems to me that it would be sensible if those negotiations covered the year after next not next year. For people to be making bookings but DVC MS not be able to tell them how many points it's going to cost is farcical. This seems to be a major error in the way DVC works and should be addressed. We all know that DVC monitors these boards and I hope that someone there looks at this and says, "yes that is a fair point there is no reason the points cost should be unknown for a booking a year ( or slightly more than a year) ahead, we will address this issue, because it's an obvious error. ".

For Disney to be aware of this problem and not to address it treats all DVC owners with ultimate contempt, it shows "we have your money and we don't care about what you think or how you feel". So this issue is causing high feelings amongst owners who feel legitimately aggrieved.

I'd agree if I had decided not to buy because of this I wouldn't be on a life mission to "sing from the rafters" on every opportunity on boards like these. I'd spend my time more productively telling the sales staff my reasons and writing to the managers of DVC sales to tell them as well. If sales thinks this is impacting their ability to sell, they will be trying to get clarification and alteration in the offending schemes. JMHO

I don't consider it negative to argue for something you care about and that you value ( financially and emotionally), because you want it to retain that value. If you see wrong being done then you have the right to try and correct that wrong. Ideally before the wrong has taken place or is uncorrectable. I'm with Chuck on the "ignore poster" option if I find them not offering anything new after a couple of repeat posts ( some of you may do that with mine LOL :) )

Dr P , there shouldn't be any "inflationary increases" because the cost of the DVC resorts cash rentals should increase in line with WDW hotels. The "points barter" between them should remain basically constant IMHO.
Take a "cost" of 25 points for a room and build in "inflation" at 8% a year for 40 years. How many points will that room cost in 2042? I've just had to recheck the answer because I couldn't believe it 543 points for a room FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE POINTS FOR A ROOM FOR ONE NIGHT!!! At what point will you people think that it is unfair to raise the points cost of WDW rooms compared to DVC ones? Doesn't that thought alarm EVERYONE?

[dianeschlicht]

Thank you Loribell!:)

[DVCajun]

I'm going to look into that "ignore" option too. I mentioned this strange occurrence to my DH just last night-- why would someone who is NOT a DVC member be hanging out on this board with sour grapes? My time is apparently more valuable than his-- I barely have time to attend to the things I enjoy. I'm certainly not going to spend it on something I don't.

BTW, while I agree that OBJECTIVE negativity can be constructive and is fine, that's not what's going on here. He is not a DVC member, has not experienced the pros let alone the cons. He's not in a position to judge.

One final comment: for those of us who bought into DVC years ago, a 37% increase only validates our decision. To me it's just as rewarding as the equity in my home increasing dramatically. I have NO intention of selling my BWV points, but if I wanted to I could do so at a substantial profit. What's not to love???

[CarolAnnC]

I would like to step in here and remind everyone of our DIS Posting Guidelines which includes "No Personal Attacks". We are all entitled to our opinions and we encourage everyone to voice them here on our Boards. Please keep this discussion thread friendly and within Posting Guidelines so that we may keep the discussion ongoing. Thank you! :)

[WebmasterDoc]

For people to be making bookings but DVC MS not be able to tell them how many points it's going to cost is farcical.

While I agree that the size of the change is probably the biggest issue here, the fact that the room rates are just now coming out has always existed at WDW for cash reservations (and these are, in effect, cash reservations- paid with points). If you made a cash reservation in April at GF for January, it would be noted on the reservation that the room rate has not yet been released and may be changed when the 2002 rates are announced.

WDW resorts will accept a cash reservation for a date far in the future, but the rate for that reservation is always subject to change when the rate structure is announced.

I think it's unreasonable to expect DVC to try to negotiate 18-24 months in advance for rates which will be changed and announced 4-5 months in advance. If that were done then DVC would, out of necessity, have to inflate the needed points to cover any possible true increase 12 months later.

In this case, DVC has apparently allowed those who were affected by the large increase to cancel and get full use of their points back. I'll assume that for those who may have reserved and had their point costs decrease, the reduced rate will also be in effect- and the extra points returned to their account.

[loribell]

I don't have a problem with people being upset and wanting Disney to know. My problem is with the constant harping on the same thing over and over by a few people. There has been some very alarming info being posted that no one knows is true or not, thereby scaring off potential buyers. That is really sad. Don't we want everyone who wants to to be part of this family. All I'm trying to say is stop posting the same thing over and over again. I think we have the picture and if Disney moderates these boards I bet they do to. That being said I myself will stop harping. Now when can I go back to Disney World, if only I didn't live so far away.

[Dancind]

I guess I said a bad word before, sorry. We bought a resale, so being able to use points to stay at WDW resorts didn't even enter the picture. In fact, I was just vaguely aware of it and figured it would be expensive point wise, better to pay cash at AP rates if I wanted a weeked at a different resort. Is this why some of you purchased? Was it sold to you as a major part of the Disney Vacation Club? I've never been to a presentation, wondering if some of the Guides were a little out of line with this.

[one_cat]

It really comes down to that every family needs to determine on an ongoing basis why they bought DVC, why they own DVC and whether it makes sense to continue owning DVC. Luckily if a family decides that DVC no longer meets their needs their is a ready market for their points.

For instance we bought mainly so we could stay on-site at WDW inexpensively. We thought this might allow us to spend an occasional weekend and a week at least every other year. We continue to own DVC because it allows us to take vacations to WDW and stay in a room where we can put the kids to bed in a separate room and gives us the flexibility to set-up-house during our vacation. The Washer/dryer and full kitchen are wonderful when you have small children.

The changes to the DW hotel point schedules and cruises don't really affect us because we decided from the first that they were too expensive pointwise anyway. If we take a cruise we will pay cash for it and save our points for the Boardwalk where we get the most value.

Unfortunately it sounds like some people bought DVC specifically so they could use the points at other hotels or on the Cruise line. My understanding from the beginning has been that these perks are not guaranteed - pricewise or availability. Currently they are more expensive than they used to be but they are still available. People who own DVC for these reasons probably need to reevaluate whether they are getting enough value for their money. If not - sell. If I found the value wasn't there anymore for our family I would certainly sell our interest but so far that is not the case.

If you didn't buy because you didn't see DVC as a good value for money - good for you. I'm not sure why you would be bitter over it.

Just my two cents.

[vernon]

Doc, I guess you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this, IMHO any price increases/decreases should be matched between the different resorts. I believe they build in PLENTY of margin.

DVCajun, I think you have missunderstood the context of 37% increase, that isn't the increase in value/price of DVC points. That is the increase in the number of DVC points needed to reserve a WDW hotel room if you wish to use your points. For example if you had a booking at the GF that was going to cost a total of 100 points last year it will now cost you 137 points ( roughly) to book the same dates and room type. That is a very rough guideline, so don't anyone pick holes saying you can't book a room at the GF for exactly 100 points :) , but I hope it explains the situation fully. At a rate of increase of 8% a year a room that currently cost 25 points a night to reserve ( which I think is only a moderate) would in 2042 one room for one night would be 543 points ( FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY THREE POINTS) Hell I'd have to use two years of points for one night's accommodation, doesn't that thought worry anyone?

[BillM]

I'm with you Loribel. Sgtpet made a great decision not to buy DVC as it doesn't fit his needs. That doesn't mean that the rest of us are dummies since we don't agree with him.

[kem330]

Somehow I feel I have to defend myself here. This board has always been an open forum about information regarding DVC. Reporting information given to me by Member services was meant to be factual sharing of information. Expressing my disappointment at the increase and lack of adequate warning for my vacation planning was just my personal take on the issue. I would hope we can all be honest here- it was not an attack on DVC in general, just on this particular issue. Of course it doesn't affect everyone the same. But for those of us who do choose to use the DC, it is helpful to share information.

As far as sales presentations go, we were presented a very thorough covering of Concierge, Disney and II, and Adventure collection. If it is not a major selling point, why the big map in the DVC Office with the lit dots all over the world and the 53 printed pages covering"Getting Away" in my member guidebook? Would they waste the paper for a program that is irrelevant or that they intend to take away? Yes the majority of you appear to use your points strictly for DVC resorts and there is NO question- it is the BEST use of your points. But I believe Disney knows that not everyone is ready to spend all 41 years at WDW, and to market to that sector of the population, they developped these exchanges. I do not think it was my guides fault- I believe they are trained to present all facets of DVC.

No argument here- it is an extremely flexible program. No I don't want to sell my points. I love this board and I can't wait for my trip in December. But I think it is OKAY to say - hey I'm upset, points just jumped from 22/night last year to 30/night this year (same days and season) without it being seen as a personal attack on the members and the program in general. I certainly didn't tell anyone not to buy- I've encouraged an informed purchase. I do believe this discussion for the most part is helpful so that prospective members do understand the program and enter it with realistic expectations.

So please, let's keep this an open-minded forum and listen and respect each others opinions.


:sunny: :sunny:

[Laurajean1014]

Wow! What a thread!!!

I've been a DVCr since 95. I did not want to join, but my dh did! We discussed and rather than further debating, we joined! We purchased it "sight unseen."

6 months later we arrived at our 1-bedroom @ OKW and was floored by the attention to detail, luxury and style of the home! We were in awe! And we haven't changed our minds since.

We now have 7 add-ons (do 4 vacations plus one Magic cruise a year!). We could never accomplish this w/o purchasing DVC.

I've kept my records since 95 and the points have not had extreme variances. Even if they did, the hotel industry (not just or Disney) goes up an average of 9% a year! On a room worth $275 a night, that would be over a $27/night increase each year!!!

Also, if anyone is hesitant to join DVC, then don't. If you are not sure (or at least one of you), then wait. It's been a tremendous success and will be around for another 41 years! It may not be "your" time!

I'm glad I have a smart husband, a "give in" mechanism in me, and all my DVC points..................

Have a DVC day!:)

[pluvc1993]

I think people should have the right to post both negative and positive respnses. It sheds light to alot of things that go on. How does a person keep themselves informed in life if all they want to read is the positive side of things. I think what Sgt. posted is fair and yes this is a discussion forum. Not Titled the POSITIVE ONLY FORUM. I myself am a DVC owner and love it but I respect other people's rights to there views. Everything in life isn't pixie dust and Disney is a business not a Club. They are not going to give everything away as upset as we may get. Go buy some stock and maybe you can put a smile ;) on your face when you spend money knowing it is coming right back. Disney made it very clear on your contract what rights you have.
If you can't take the heat then get out!!!!!

[sgtpet]

Funny thing folks. What is most negative and non-Disney like is when you personally attack others. Shame on those that have done so. I could get very personal but have chosen to take the high road. I have stated over and over again that I had nothing negative to say about DVC owners. Until now. I didn't know you have to be an owner to speak or be critical on this board.

My criticsm has been noted in many threads. It is to the DVC and to give a different thought process to potential owners.

I would like to thank all monitors of this board for allowing me to speak my mind on the issues and sharing a differnce of opinion.

The last few days were interesting.


pluvc1993 Thanks.

[DVCajun]

You're right-- I did misunderstand. I thought the issue was the price per point. (blush) Those HAVE risen quite a bit-- maybe even close to 37%!! But I guess that's another thread....

[loribell]

pluvc1993 I never said it was a positive only forum. But sgtpet kept adding the same response to everything, that is rediculous. A few times would be plenty, or the same response from everyone is fine, but for one person to constantly post the same thing is a different story.

sgtpet no one said you had to be an owner to voice your opinion, it was an attempt to politely ask that you stop posting the same thing. So SORRY I offended you, but it IS NOT just voicing an opinion when you constantly post the same thing.

kem330 I don't feel you need to defend yourself. You did the right thing when you came back with the update that it wasn't as bad as has been previously posted. I don't think that a 37% increase is good either, but nobody knows the whole picture yet and hysteria set in.

If this is the way this board is going to continue to be I will chose not to visit in the future. I just hope that all of the negative, unfounded hysteria doesn't drive away other families.

[WebmasterDoc]

Funny thing folks. What is most negative and non-Disney like is when you personally attack others. Shame on those that have done so.

While you have had many comments directed at your statements, I'm not aware of any personal attacks. If you feel you have been attacked, please email me, one of the other DVC moderators or one of the Webmasters with the details, so we can look into the matter.

One concern which certainly can lead to the type of comments we've seen here lately, is the amount of incorrect information which is offered as fact.

When advice is given to NOT join DVC because of something which WILL happen at BCV, many will take offense, since there has been NO detailed information released about that resort at all by DVC. There has certainly been speculation offered on this board about what people think may happen, but there is no real information available yet on which a purchase decision at that resort can reliably be made.

Hopefully, some factual information about BCV and the various programs will be coming soon from DVC. Then we can all have the benefit of analizing the same information, instead of getting upset about speculative remarks- some from members and some from non-members.

Enjoy!

[Joeblack]

I don't find the personal attacks on sgtpet fair. He is entitled to his opinions as much as anybody else. This is not an owner's forum only. Most of us have lurked here trying to find out as much as we can before shelling out the money fo become owners. There are posters who are very vocal about issues that they consider important such as room occupancy, pool hopping, weekday-only use, and so on. We've read the posts over and over because their authors want to make sure that their message gets across. Sgtpet is dissapointed in this and I think he's allowed to be as vocal about it as he can as long as he does not break the forum rules. If the moderators don't stop him, then why should any poster do? Let alone being rude to the point of being mean to him?
This is really the first time I've seen this kind of behaviour in these forums and Ihope it does not become common.

On the other hand, I, like Doc, also believe that too much of a big deal has been made out of a non-confirmed news. Let's wait for the changes to keep on discussing on the DC.

[sgtpet]

I agree. Let's all move on. End this thread!

[KNWVIKING]

...but when I purchased at OKW it's because that is where I wanted to stay. My points are very valuable to me,I try to stretch them as far as possible. It never made sense to me to spend them at another on-site resort. Why waste points just to sleep at GF. I can wonder on over to GF anytime.Eat at Alberts, have a drink in the lounge,sit in the lobby & watch people, swim in their pool, have a massage,go for a boat ride, pretty much get the whole GF experience except for when it's time to go to bed.

I didn't buy into DVC because of DC or II or any of the other perks. I purchased because DW and I love staying on property about 4 weeks a yr and OKW is absolutely the cheapest way to do it. Any other benifit,perk,discount,etc is just gravy. IMO if a person decided not to purchase because they were dissatisfied with the gravy,then they were missing the point of DVC to begin with.

HMMMM... Got an idea for a thread.....

[PamOKW]

Just a side note to DVCCajun -- The price per point has actually risen 56% from $48 per point pre-construction at OKW to $75 today. ;)

[Dancind]

Loribell, thanks for trying to be a voice of reason, but I think you're wasting your time. Ignore and this too shall pass. I admit that I too am personally offended in a repetitive and uninformed way. Chuck, where are you?

[brittsmum1998]

Count me in as one of the offended also :mad: . I also agree w/ KNWVIKING... we purchased at BWV because thats where we wanted to spend most of our time. Even b4 the pt. increase, we decided that was not good for us. We want to get as much benefit and value from our DVC. Love it so much, took advantage of "winning" the lottery :confused: for an additional add-on, which we promptly "celebrated" by going out to eat. :D

[sumessefui]

All this fuss about perks has upset me so much, I just had to buy another 100 points.

[nickglover]

I have to admit, when I was considering our decision to become a DVC member, I was very much persuaded by all of the optimistic (or should I say "euphoric"?) comments on this board. In making an informed decision, I also would have welcomed more discussion as to the expensive cost of points for the Concierge Collection, as we did not intend to spend every vacation going to WDW. Let's face it, some people on this board at least give the perception of being "addicted to pixie dust", if you know what I mean.
Don't get me wrong, I am glad we joined, and in three weeks we are going to L.A. and are going to stay at the Grand Californian and visit Disneyland and California Adventure. This is something I probably would not have done, if it were not for DVC. But the next time I go to California, I want to revisit Sequoia and Yosemite and the wine country. We are enjoying DVC, but may not stay around for the next 41 years or so.

[sgtpet]

Nick you are right. That is why I didn't purchase into DVC. I would love to go to Disney quite often but there are many other locations in the United States and the World where I would like to have options of where to go.

Speaking of objectivity, if you give a negative Disney response you are ripped into. There is very little objectivity on this board. I purchaser of a DVC that wants both sides of the story should go to other locations.

This is a great place to get information about DVC but not to question whether to purchase or not.

In fact I had a thread stating Buyer Beware and it was immediately removed. Meanwhile the thread why so negative was directed at me and from what I see is still on the board.

Don't forget this site is sponsored by the Timeshare Store.

[Jimbo]

Nick you are right. That is why I didn't purchase into DVC. I would love to go to Disney quite often but there are many other locations in the United States and the World where I would like to have options of where to go.

Whenever someone asks the question "Is DVC right for me," the usual responses will say that it is if you intend to travel to WDW every year or two, and stay in moderates or up. In that case, DVC will probably make sense. And it sounds like that doesn't describe you. So not buying is the right choice for you.

But you have extrapolated that into "misleading marketing schemes," "Disney manipulating their members," "false information," etc. And when people object to how you characterized the program, you accuse them of a lack of objectivity. Remember, I never see anyone on these boards touting DC as a reason to buy a DVC membership.

Just because the program isn't right for you doesn't make it flawed.

[pluvc1993]

Too all those who are scared to voice what they believe in........
An Old Man once said In a battle only the true bravest are still standing at the end and ready to fight again for what they believe in

This is not meant to offend anyone but the reality is everyone has a right to stand for what they believe in. It is a better person who can learn with an open mind in the end. I may or may not agree with Sgtpet but I give him credit for his determination. And if in the interim he helped someone make an informed decision based on their individual predicament then he has done right.

I leave everyone with a smile:) !!!!!!

[teri]

All of us are here as guests on this very nice, free, moderated website. Please take the time to review the DIS Posting Guidelines (http://www.wdwinfo.com/guidelines.htm). These guidelines were written in response, in part, to threads such as this on these boards. You will note that fighting and personal attacks are not allowed. Thank you!

[sgtpet]

Then why is this thread still on the board? Its origin is personal in nature.

My comments in no way threaten the survival of the DVC program. Yet I am told to stop berating the same points over and over again. I think that is personal.

DVC is great if you think it is great. I am soured on it for now.

Please enough with this thread...


Remember these are opinions, not fact.

[loribell]

If it is possible as the original poster I to would like for it to be removed. I never intended to cause so much anger. I was only asking that something besides the same thing be posted over and over again. I personally feel that is not voicing an opinion but FORCING one. And sgtpet I was not only directing it to you, your name was at the top of my head because you had posted the same thing repeatedly, but i did mention other posts. Many things are hurt by unfounded rumors, it amazes me how quickly rumors can become fact.

[sgtpet]

Loribell

I have no hostility towards you but I am beginning to see alot of ugly comments being flung around.


My original wish to be another voice has faltered.

This is obviously not the former for that.

I appreciate your desire to have this removed. It is greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

Loribell.

[JonHM]

This has actually been a very interesting thread, and I personally think it would be a disservice to open discussion around here to delete it.

Sgtpet, while your posts were cited as an example of what was being discussed on the thread, I don't think that *anyone* here has intended any sort of personal attack on you. I also think that you misunderstand what people are saying, though.

I too do not understand people who ONLY want to hear the positive. I have seen threads on the other DIS boards roundly criticizing The Unofficial Guide to Disney World for including negative comments, as well as positive, about restaurants and attractions. I thought that that was ridiculous, as negative comments CAN be just as informative (if not more) as positive comments.

HOWEVER, this is where I think that you are missing the point that some here were trying to make. As I read it, people here are NOT questioning your right to express your opinion. They are NOT criticizing you simply for posting something negative about DVC. I know that what bothered me about your posts of the past few days was not that you were saying something negative, but the WAY that you were phrasing your comments. They did not always come across, to me, as 'balanced'. You made some very strong statements, (let me say that you are not the only one who has been making these type of comments over the past few days, but you are being cited because you have been very good about discussing these issues after making your initial posts, as you and I did extensively on Friday) often without elaborating on the context of the comment. For instance, saying that Disney had 'lied' to you without explaining how until a number of posts later, or saying that they had gone back on their word, or stolen benefits away, again without fully explaining what was the basis for your assertions until a number of posts later.

I think that given everything that you have posted about your vacationing habits, you made a wise decision not to purchase at this time. It doesn't sound like what you wanted or needed it to be right now in order for you to be happy with a purchase, and I think we would ALL want you to make the most informed decision possible. But you have been actively trying to dissuade others from buying/considering DVC, in a much more 'attack oriented' way than the way that you feel that you have been attacked on this thread. And a lot of what you are upset about was based on speculation, as we discussed the other day. But someone looking into DVC for the first time might read one or two of your posts about Disney 'lying' to you, and 'stealing' benefits from members, and completely end their consideration of DVC WITHOUT a full and informed view of what it is about. Now you have said that you simply want people to make a fully informed decision, and I believe you, but there are *some* of your posts that did not strike me as working towards that end.

You are complaining that some members on this board do not want anything negative to be said about DVC, but the tone, especially of some of your early posts on Thursday, struck me as the exact thing that you are complaining about. You were trying to block positive info about DVC from getting distributed in exactly the same way you were complaining about others trying to block negative info from getting out.

Now granted, you and a number of people here were and are VERY upset about prospective point hikes for the Disney Collection, and it is understandable that people post very strongly worded or emotional posts when they are upset. But please understand that no one here, that I can see, is questioning your right to complain, either about Disney or the DVC. It is a question of method, of style, NOT of whether or not you had the right to.

I guess I would just say that if you're going to say something negative, simply back it up. Don't make posts with accusations, such as 'Disney lies!' (totally generic example) without backing it up with examples of *why* you say that they lie. Such posts, while distasteful to some, are much more welcomed here and would come across as much more balanced, if every time you make an accusation, you explain the basis for the accusation.

Sorry to be so longwinded, just wanted to put in my 2 cents... :)

[pluvc1993]

We do not believe in censorship, and open discussions about various issues is encouraged. We ask that everyone conduct himself or herself with respect when speaking to other people. It is okay to disagree, as long as the discussion remains respectful of the feelings of others. Once a discussion begins to step over that line, the post in question will be deleted. In extreme cases, individuals who are not able to conduct themselves as responsible group members will be asked not to return.
As an end note to this discussion I leave my friends with this. Courtesy of DIS Posting guidelines.
Thanks Teri:)

[TnRobin]

The original poster of this thread has asked that this thread be closed. I am locking this thread. No more responses will be accepted.