Decided NOT to buy DVC

[senorak]

Thanks to all who offered into re: DVC....but after much research; we decided it was not the way to go for us. Yes, we love Disney....but the high cost of buying (even resales) and the exhorbitant maintenance fees, along with only a 40 year "deed" just turned us off. With 5 of us, we would need to use points towards a 2BR villa...and with me being a teacher, I am limited to travel during the high seasons of summer and/or holiday time. It just didn't add up for us.

We currently own a TS in the Poconos and are looking to buy another (probably in SoCA) and from the research, can find a 2BR one with extremely high trading power for a fraction of what the DVC would cost (and has low maintenance fees and is deeded forever). Yes, I know we won't be able to trade "in park"; but for the cost difference, being outside the park isn't too bad. Plus, we could always snag a great discount on hotel to stay in park for a few nights.

I love the concept of the DVC...and the travel options were wonderful. ANd yes, it would be great to have a villa in WDW...but for us, the cost involved was just too high. But thanks to all for the input. You helped me make an informed decision.

DEB

[Luv2Dream]

That's what these boards are all about. I hope you enjoy your vacations, wherever they are, because that is what life is all about, isn't it? Enjoyment, every single minute of it.

[sgtpet]

I have decided not to purchase either. The value is not there for a purchaser in DVC I.

Oh well.

[Bumpy]

Hope DVC is happy with their new stratagy! I have never seen people backing out of DVC sighting lack of value before. Its interesting the first poster talks about the flexibility that the program offers, however, the second poster is aware of the new point structure comming out and is running away as fast as he can. Can't say I blame him and I can not defend DVC on this . I am still waiting to wake up from a bad dream . Say it isn't so.

[Disney Doll]

What new strategy???? We purchased in 1997, and couldn't be happier with our decision!!!! Is there something happening that I haven't heard about????:confused:

[Jimbo]

Hey Bumpy - how about reining in the hysteria a little! The fact is that staying at a DVC resort costs <b>exactly</b> as many points as it ever did. It hasn't gone up, and it cannot go up. Our contracts say so.

What has apparently gone up is the cost (in points) of staying at <b>non-DVC</b> resorts (the Poly, AKL, etc.). Compared to a DVC resort, these were never a good deal in the first place. And if what we're hearing is true, it's an even worse deal.

But if you use your points to stay at OKW/BWV/WLV and the rest, <u>you are completely unaffected by this</u>. It disturbs me to think that this point may be missed amid the general freaking out that's going on around here.

[Kathy C]

Thanks for making clear that the points needed at the DVC resorts aren't going up. I didn't think they could; however, I was getting ready to sell mine without having stayed there yet! Do people really buy to stay at non-DVC resorts. It seems in most cases, if you really wanted to stay at a non-DVC resort, cash is the way to go.

Thanks!

[normr]

The thing that concerns me is when the Disney bean counters start getting involved, they come in and start bumping up associated costs where they can get away with it (where they aren't held back by state laws ) like under state law the maintenance can only go up a certain percentage.

If they raise the point costs for the DC ( I hope the huge rate increase some are reporting are due to getting Concierge level) and they get away with it where do you think they might go next, maybe a redistribution on points for weekdays and weekends, and raise the weekdays and drop the weekends hurting those people that stay 10 or 12 days.

I'd like to hear from people who have been with DVC from the beginning to see what things they remember having that are now gone.

[JonHM]

I must respectfully but emphatically disagree with sgtpet's post above that "The value is not there for a purchaser in DVC I." I agree that DVC is not for everyone; if you don't like to visit WDW every year or every other year, or don't care to have the additional comfort and amenities of the Deluxe Resorts, then DVC may well not be for you. But if you DO like to visit WDW on a regular basis, and DO like to stay onsite at the Deluxe resorts, DVC (or DVC I as sgtpet calls it) is a TREMENDOUS value. In my view, we'll be paying off the 'mortgage' on DVC for a maximum of 10 years (hopefully we'll be able to pay it off early :) ) and then we'll have *30 years* of deluxe DVC vacations for simply the cost of maintenance fees. If that isn't value, I don't know what is. I really can't understand the people who are so incredibly bothered by the termination date... heck my little boy will be over 40 by then... at that point, he can buy his OWN membership in DVC XXI... ;)

[sgtpet]

Disagree as must but look at the posts. DVC has sold and what almost sold me to the plan was that flexibility was a key component in the sales pitch.

Unfortunately from the recent posts it seems apparent that Disney is taking this away. If you look at the DVC and the value people received 10 years ago up until today, you would see a steady decline in value for what you are purchasing today. New or Resale.

With what is going on, I can see them making it nearly impossible for you to vacation outside your home resort. Not only that but you have to plan your vacation 11 months in advance. So much for choosing a place to go 4 months even in advance.

I was close to purchasing but I have held back until I hear anything positive.

[JonHM]

Thanks for the reply. My main point, that I made on another thread, is that it is NOT apparent that Disney is taking ANYTHING away, because the points schedules are NOT out yet. We are all hypothesizing and extrapolating from a few isolated point quotes, and all I am saying is that we need to see the entire schedule before we go drawing those kinds of conclusions.

If you were thinking of buying DVC mainly so you can stay at non-DVC resorts, then it isn't really a good value, and wasn't 10 years ago either. But have you SEEN the DVC resort rooms? I had just stayed in the Grand Floridian this June for 5 days when we went on the DVC tour, and the VWL rooms that we looked at BLEW AWAY the GF rooms, both in terms of space, but much moreso in the way of amenities. So while yeah, you *could* stay at the GF on points, it costs WAY more, points wise, even before the increases, for LESS space and amenities in the room. It's nice to have the option, I guess, but it's certainly not a reason to buy or not buy into DVC. Our salesperson was very clear and upfront with us that ALL of the non-DVC collections are re-negotiated every year, and that they *could* go away at any time. The only thing that is *guaranteed* is the DVC resorts.

[senorak]

If I could take a vacation to DVC in the summer months with a 2BR villa and say it was only "maintenance fees", I would take another look at DVC.....but in order to get the number of points (to have a 2BR in the summer), you are talking at least 250-300 points (13k--on up purchase price from resale). And the maintenance fees of upwards of $500 /year to almost $1000 or more....it really does add up. Unless you pay the entire purchase in full and use it during "off season times", I can't see the value of DVC. We would only be able to go every other year (saving points from each year) in order to get a 7-10 day stay in a DVC villa---so now we're talking 2 years of maintenance fees for one trip---that's more than I'm paying for this year's trip to stay at the Poly. Like I said before, for us, having to travel in the summer....the DVC is not worth it. And yes, I agree....looking at the different resorts you can exchange into seem wonderful; but again, I would be using the maximum (or near maximum) amount of points and that to me is a terrible waste of money. For those for whom DVC works well, I say "more power to you"....but it is not for everyone; just as TS is not for everyone. I would love (and plan) to visit Disney every year or every other year....but I will be doing it thru trading my TS week for one close to WDW. Yes, the "magic" may not be there.....but, I will still have a deluxe villa and the same ammenities as many of the DVC resorts (if not more) and will not have to have my children "re-purchase" the villa in 40 years. Again, I had planned to buy into DVC...but after putting the numbers to paper...and seeing the huge cost, it simply wasn't worth it to me.

DEB

[JonHM]

I think that everyone on this thread respects your decisions and your reasons for making them. Certainly DVC does not make sense for everyone, and no one here is arguing that you should change your mind. You do tend to burn a lot of points if you go in the summer, AND Friday nights and Saturday nights are *ridiculous* increases over Sunday-Thursday. To me the ultimate DVC plan would be to take two (or more ;)) Sunday night - Thursday night trips per year rather than one 7-10 day trip. You'd be *amazed* how much further your points can go if you don't stay over Friday or Saturday nights. But *clearly*, not everyone has the flexibility in their schedules that they can take those kinds of trips, and for the reasons you pointed out, DVC does not sound right for you, at least right now.

I may have missed a post somewhere, but I really do think that all of us respect your decision and your reasoning - you don't have to defend or justify yourself. I'm just glad that you could make a fully informed decision because of all of the input and answers that you received here. That's what the place is all about! :)

[Joe T.]

Interesting comments. We thought for about 5 minutes about the expiration date. The question that gave us our answer was: Is Disney more likely to be in business, still providing a quality product, 45 years down the line than Podunk Timeshare Corporation offerring deeded ownership. We know that, even if the price per point continues to increase, and the rate for deluxe accommodations goes to $1,000 per night, we will still be able to stay at our villa at OKW.

Our first TS purchase was in 1993, deeded with relatively low annual fees. BUT, there are internal restrictions and costs that cost us a few hundred each year. Restrictions such as a limited time frame for less than full week reservations, costs for extra cleaning due to multi mini vacations. Maintenance and landscaping has been OK, but doesn't compare with DVC or Marriott. Value? Last year we considered selling, but best offer was about 60% of the "special" price we paid in 1993. Fact: We could sell our DVC points for more now than we paid for them in 1995. We realize that there will be a point in time that the value of our points will decrease, but we will have had than the full use, and it will be up to our children to decide to participate in DVC IV.

I can think of several reasons not to join DVC, primarily that there are no plans to visit WDW at least every two or three years. We bought Marriott in 1997 for their extensive list of resorts, exchange power, and their Reward Points program. Annual fees at DVC and MVCI are comparable.

Guarantees are only as good as the paper they are written on. We are personally very leary of low cost promises and "guarantees". Someone has to pay for the updated TVs etc. I don't like surprises when the owners are assessed for things that were thought to be included. It is very easy for the corporate management to label a need as extraordinary and charge owners a fee. There have been such cases in the last few years. I don't think that we are at too much
risk with Disney, Marriott and a few other established TS.

[Joe T.]

Senorak,

Your last post came in while I was typing my epistle. I sure didn't mean to show any disrespect for your decision. We are also restricted to summer vacations, but we NEVER stay more than the 5 nights at DVC. We use some Marriott Reward Points to stay in the area for a few extra.

My brother basically agrees with you. The major downside of TS ownership is the need to plan so far in advance.

Great vacatios for you and yours - no matter where you go.

[Doctor P]

DVC is certainly not for every one, but assertions that the value just is not there with DVC I and that one is a teacher and can only go in high seasons are not backed up by the quite reasonable calculations of DVC's value done by many of us in recent threads (we had a series of threads a few months back that had gory detailed calculations). I myself have a schedule that greatly limits when I can go to WDW--generally we might be able to sneak away for one week in late July if the stars align right (We simply cannot go from August-June). Otherwise, we must go at the Christmas holiday time. This is actually the reason that we chose to buy DVC, not a reason for not buying! In general (this year has been a notable exception), the cash rates for non-DVC resorts are highest (and least discounted) at the holiday times. We are able to prepay our vacations for the next 40 years and stay in deluxe accomodations (studio) for at least a week every year for the same or less cost as staying at the ALL STAR RESORTS (not moderate resorts, VALUE resorts)!!! Even if I never stay at a non-DVC resort, never cruise on DCL (something that we dearly DO want to do), and never exchange out of DVC, we are getting an excellent value for our prepaid vacations and I have no regrets. Yes, I too am disappointed in any reduction in the flexibility of my membership. However, I took the advice to heart that what you see now is not necessarily what you will get down the road with respect to options to trade out (including the Disney collection). We also carefully bought where we want to stay most, which is the consistent advice offered on this board. DVC is not for everyone, and has it's greatest benefits for people willing to plan ahead. However, it should be noted that one often cannot go to WDW with one's choice of rooms and rates at the four months ago with a cash reservation, so to some extent we are comparing apples with oranges.

DVC is not for everyone, but it remains an excellent value for the same buyers as have always been the best candidates for DVC.

[senorak]

Thanks for all the supportive feedback. Wish I could justify our buying into DVC....but with our travel limits (and flying from PA), a 5 day stay wouldn't cut it for us. No offense was taken at any post. BTW...I'm heading to WDW tomorrow!

DEB

[Towncrier]

senorak - First, have a great time at WDW. We just got back from 12 nights at Old Key West and 3 nights at the Contemporary. I just wanted to add another comment regarding your decision based on your current career/family situation. We currently have just about enough points to spend 12 nights a year in a 2BR suite at OKW during the summer months. Our children are both in school and that will be the case for the foreseeable future. We always take my wife's mom along with us, thus we have always opted for the 2BR. My point is that, in the future, we won't need a 2BR unit, nor will we be limited to summer only vacations. I'm looking forward to the day that Sue and I can zip down to Florida during some season other than "hot" and enjoy the different facets that WDW has to offer (Flower & Garden, Food & Wine, and Holidays).

Your observation that maintenance fees can rise dramatically is a very valid concern (and one which was almost the deal breaker for us). And sgtpet's observation that the Disney Collection is no longer a bargain does bring into question the "inflation protection" that DVC is supposed to provide to members. I understand that DVC has to negotiate these rates with the other Disney resorts and with the Disney Cruise Line, but it appears that the value of DVC to these outside entities is not entirely appreciated in these times of economic uncertainty.

I guess my point is that DVC may make sense for you in the future and if you believe that it will, it would make sense to purchase now rather than later. If you can plan your vacations 11 months in advance, all the better. But DVC isn't for everyone. It's just sometimes hard for those of us who are members to admit that.

[Dean]

When some timeshares are selling rooms when they have none along with major lies, poor value and a false promise of being able to trade for anything; I just shrug when someone says that my guide promised and emphasized but it wasn't in writing. I've said before and I'll repeat, anyone that bought into the DVC program with any other intent than to use the points mostly or even exclusively to stay at DVC resorts, made a poor decision. Now we've all made poor decisions in our life and I can think of a lot worse I've made than having DVC go south on me. So anyone who wants to give me their points and let me pay the dues are welcome to do so.

Timeshare salesman are worse than Used Car Salesman with DVC and Marriott having the best as a whole.

[KNWVIKING]

JOE T. made the comment about other Time Shares. Go check out West Gate Lakes just north of WDW.Yes they are adding new buildings,but look at thier original construction.We stayed there may 2000 and were forever cured of TS's like this. I would probably trust MVC or Hilton's plan but nobody else.

Second, everybody is talking about "the value" of DVC going up or down. I never put a $$$ value on my points, I consider them priceless. My wife and I love going to WDW twice a yr, 10 days between Thanksgiving & Christmas and two weeks in May. One doesn't need to be a math wizz to realize the economy of DVC as opposed to paying cash for 24 days of deluxe accomodations. As for 2042... I'll be 82 yrs old, I think DVC expiring before I do will be the least of my worries.

[baileybrad]

I think that the most important thing about planning future vacations is having options. Nothing is certain in life. It can be in writing but many things "in writing" go belly-up all the time.

Senorak is and should rightly be evaluating many options for planning her family's future vacations and since the subject is Disney....future Disney vacations. Just because the numbers don't add up in her case doesn't make the DVC a bad option. It just doesn't, in her opinion and the many others who evaluate/decline becoming DVC members, "work" for them. There is really no wrong or right answer. It is an avenue for folks to consider. The majority of us who are DVC members are fairly happy with our decisions to explore this particular vacation option. Is it perfect? No, but that doesn't really matter as long as we are happy with our choice.

I am still looking for the timeshare operation that has been running for 30 to 40 years and is in the same league with the DVC. For those of you think that they have found it, only time will tell. The timeshare road is one bloody highway with many casualties.

[dianeschlicht]

After reading all this, I think an "amen" needs to be added after Bailybrad. That is the crux of the whole matter.

[sgtpet]

Here's to you TownCrier for being an objective owner. As somebody that is a formal perspective buyer I can appreciate your not so Disney is always right and does things in my interest.

Dean, you miss the point. It is not that I would have wanted to never go to DVC. But that the opportunity of flexibility has been diminished and I fear will be further diminished in the future. I never stated another timeshare, I certainly wouldn't.


I think we all want to trust Disney as being good to us, because of the joy the company gives to us as children and continues into our adulthood. But what alot of posters miss is that Disney is a corporation trying to make a profit. There concern is not the consumer satisfaction unless it is what helps make a profit for them.

I also fear that they will further limit the interchanging between DVC resorts.

I am saddened that things are more skeptical today for the DVC plan. Nobody is a fool for being in it. I wish I had signed up 6 years ago when it was better than today.


Enjoy

[akghutton]

I understand that DVC is not for everyone, but after reading these posts I just wanted to add a few important reasons that we bought into DVC.

The short term savings was definitely not a selling point. As senorak stated, we could currently stay for less in a lesser resort. However, if you look at the way the resorts' prices are going up each year, the long term savings can't be beat. We figure that in even 10 years, when the prices to stay at a 2-bedroom villa in any of the DVC resorts has gone way up for those paying cash, we will be still staying for a point rate similiar to today.

Another thing that sold us was when we looked at the fact that we had spent close to $9,000.00 on 3 WDW vacations over 4 years, for 2 adults, to stay at Dixie Landings in a standard room. That $9,000.00 could have paid for all our DVC membership minus approximately $500.00!! Add children into the equation and that is one expensive vacation when paying cash for similiar accomodations. We also take advantage of the fact that if we bring along friends or family, hey, we're paying for the accomodations, they can pick up our airfare and/or tickets. We joined on our 3rd trip, better late than never I guess.

Lastly, I too am a teacher, and thus am locked into the school vacation schedule. We get around the peak season rates by going the last few weeks in August. August 15th puts you into value season at the DVC resorts(at least according to the 2002 point chart) and we love the fact that not only are the points less but so are the crowds, for most southern schools are back in session. These are just a few of the reasons we chose to go with DVC.

What it comes down to is what is going to work best for you and you family. If you are always wondering whether or not you have made the right decision, you are never going to enjoy your vacations. Sorry this is so long, as an English teacher, I tend to get long winded at times. Best of luck to everyone. :D

[JonHM]

Very good post. You make a lot of good points. One thing, though: do not mistake my position as a 'Disney can do no wrong' position. I don't know who you were speaking of there. I just want to make sure that these rumors are true before getting upset about them. It already looks like the increases are not nearly as bad as we were all worried they would be after the initial posts. But we should find out for sure some time next week.

You make a very, very good point that Disney is a corporation that *is* more concerned with its profits than with our being happy as their customers. BUT, 2 points: 1) Even though they ARE more concerned with their profits than they are with us, they are MUCH MORE concerned with making their customers happy than 99% of the rest of American corporations today. In a lot of the rest of society, customer service has gone completely by the wayside. So, *relatively speaking*, I am still happy that Disney maintains the very high quality of customer service that they do, both for DVC members and for anyone else visiting Disney World. 2) I, for one, am glad that Disney IS as concerned with profit as they are, given the customer service driven nature of their business. OF COURSE, I don't want them to lose sight of their customers, and I DO love the way that I'm treated when I visit WDW, but I *DO* want them to still be in business 40 years from now, and too many well established companies have either gone under or been bought out because of not enough concern for the bottom line. They just need to find the appropriate balance between profit and customer service, and I think they actually do quite a good job at that most of the time.

I AM very curious to see those point charts when they come out...

[sgtpet]

JohnHm, my reference was not towards you. I respect your points as well. Let me further continue and state that Disney is the King of Customer Service for a long time. It is almost a dilemna for Disney because that is the consumer's expectation of them. Look at the posts, if anything negative appears to be happening, people become distraught at the thought that Disney is letting them down.

It is Disney's greatness and yet its downfall when it is not achieved.

[dbkelly]

I value Senorak's judgement, but I see things a lot more analytically. As an accountant, I tend to put a monetary value on everything and the rate of return on a DVC membership is better then what I have seen in the hay days of the stock market!

[sgtpet]

dbkelly you are right on that. the best disney investment is the vacation club certainly not its stock. I have just commented that the value to a new purchaser is not as great due to less years higher dollar amount per point, etc.


DVC should still be a good investment for the next decade or so.

[TheWho]

My wife is a teacher and we have two little kids. I brought last year and have enough points to stay in a one bedroom for a week at BW (a place we have fallen in love with) for a week every summer. I financed for ten years and I pay $190 a month (includes dues) for ten years. That's about $2,400 a year for UTOPIA WDW lodging. That's pretty good. And of course the interest is tax deductible. (I expect dues will only move slightly).
And of course after ten years, I will only worry about dues.

The cost of DVC and diminishing services was never the sticky point for me. It was, do we deserve a WDW vacation every year ?(or every other). I figured, what the hell, my wife and I bust our backs all year and the thought of visiting BW every summer w/ the kids was something we deserved.

good luck with your decisions

[Lisa P.]

senorak, you are so wise to fully investigate your options and determine what's right for your own family, ahead of time. It's very hard to see DVC firsthand (so nice!) and decide that the finances of it don't fit your family's needs. We bought in for our family of 5 and ended up selling it during an economic crunch. For some reason, this family size (who like to travel in Magic Season & include weekends) is squeezed by this program.

Anyway, in your situation, having personally struggled with the same figures and options, I came to the very same conclusions that you did and agree completely with your decision. It's a tough decision. Choosing to go with offsite timeshare exchanges turned out to be the best thing for us though. You won't see others who agree much here, due to this being a DVC forum. But... see you on TUG! ;) :) :D

Posted by Joe T.: Our first TS purchase... internal restrictions and costs that cost us a few hundred each year. Restrictions such as a limited time frame for less than full week reservations, costs for extra cleaning due to multi mini vacations.

If you are referring to Fairfield, Joe T., VIP status reduces or eliminates some of those problems (300,000 points or more). We hope to get there if I can find more resale points cheaply enough.

Annual fees at DVC and MVCI are comparable.

Perhaps, if you can travel in mid- or lower seasons, they are. But not if you are comparing peak school breaks, summers & major holidays, when families with 3 or 4 children in school, who need a 2-BR, would travel. For that particular situation, MVCI is often much lower.

MVCI Sunset Pt, Grande Ocean or Barony Beach HHI: $577-$700
DVC HHI: ~$900-$1,000

MVCI Grande Vista or Cypress Harbour: $600-$650
DVC OKW, VWL or BWV: ~$900-$1,850

MVCI BeachPlace, FL: $800
DVC Vero Beach: ~$1,160-$1,780

MVCI Heritage Club on HHI is $900 but it includes FREE daily golf! So does Manor Club in Wmsbg with maint fees of just $550. Kauai is $950 and Maui is likely similar but DVC doesn't even offer those destinations for internal trading. Again, if you are traveling in midseason or lower season, or don't need a 2-BR, DVC's maint fees may be comparable or even lower than MVCI. But for families in certain situations, it's not.

DVC has to pay a premium for their expensive transportation system and taxes, plus some portion of the hotel services offered at their shared resorts, plus the "free" organized activities (a la carte fee in other resorts), plus extra housekeeping and reservation services required for all the short stays. It is understandable that they have higher fees. If someone wants all that added to their vacation, it's worth it and more convenient to just buy in. If someone doesn't really care about it, paying for it as part of the member body that does, doesn't make much sense.

I agree with baileybrad, there are no right or wrong choices. It's best to look at them all and choose so that we can be happy with our own choices.

[Joe T.]

Yes Lisa, I was referring to Fairfield. Fairfield Williamsburg was our first TS purchase in 1993. We looked into upgrading to the 300,000 point level, but the cost was outrageous. We told the Fairfield rep that if we could sell our existing 192,000 points for at least our cost, we would purchase the 300,000 points. The best offer he could come up was about 60% less costs. We decided to keep the Williamsburg TS, continue to use it for long weekends, and bite the bullet on the extra cleaning cost. My DW is a teacher as are many of you. Our major vacation time is summer, so the long weekends are important for her mental health. Five days is not a long time at WDW. It goes without saying that one cannot see and do everything in that time. It is easier for us because we have no young children. Typically we have family renunions every 2 or 3 years, and the grandkids have developed the habit of listing their main objectives. Usually we do not get to all of their goals, but they accept the "next time" reasoning. On the off family years, we usually have relatives or friends to enjoy the adult recreations and food. This year, we had a two-family reunion, using two OKW Grand Villas and one studio. I can't start to put a monetary value on that 5-day trip. Most of our family came from MN - one drove and the other flew.

[chainkid]

While I love my DVC it is definitely not cheap. At this point in my life I could easily afford it. When my son was younger I would have been priced out of DVC so I understand. If you have the money its the best deal around for staying at a deluxe part of Disney World. So you made the correct decision. Joan

[PKS44]

The teacher talks about getting " a 7-10 day stay in a DVC villa---so now we're talking 2 years of maintenance fees for one trip---that's more than I'm paying for this year's trip to stay at the Poly."

Umm-2 years of maintainance fees for going every other year would be about $1100-$1300 for the number of points you are talking about...If 5 of you can stay at the Poly for 7 days in the average summer and rent the refrigerator and do without the washer/dryer microwave etc for $1100 - you ought to start your own website on how to save $$ at Disney...you can't--it can't be done...

DVC is a great value...

Paul

[Dean]

Originally posted by sgtpet
Dean, you miss the point. It is not that I would have wanted to never go to DVC. But that the opportunity of flexibility has been diminished and I fear will be further diminished in the future. I never stated another timeshare, I certainly wouldn't. I didn't miss the point, I just never saw this option as truly giving any flexibility. It is an option with little or no value, IMO, to start with and any changes that decrease the value will not change my opinion. But everyone must make their own decisions. Now if they want to cut the points in half, we might be able to discuss it; and that's they type of change it would take to get me to think about it in all but extreme circumstances.

[Lisa P.]

Posted by PKS44: a 7-10 day stay in a DVC villa... would be about $1100-$1300 for the number of points you are talking about...

If they bought at VWL or BWV and stayed in a 2-BR at their home resort for 9 nights (two weekends) in July, it would cost 500 points - ~$2,000 in maintenance fees per trip. That doesn't include their 24 monthly loan payments to cover the 250 point annual purchase of ~$18,750. Take just 10% of the purchase price into account (5% per year or $1,875 per 2 years) and the trips' lodging costs would be more like $3,875 for those 9 nights.

While the 2-BR is wonderful and this price ($430/nt) may not seem bad, it is more than a July stay at the Poly. And after plunking down all that hard-earned cash, there are more restrictions on how to use points than on how to use cash.

[sgtpet]

I am tired of defending my point. The Disney Cruise is shown in the front of every sales/marketing item. Including the front page of the official DVC website. DVC attempts to make it a value. Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.

[PKS44]

Lisa P-
I see your math but it only accounts for the first 10 years, not the other 31...Also the original post said that 2 years' of maintenance was the same amount of money as she spent on the Poly for 5 people in a Poly room? I don't know but if they get two rooms at the Poly then that is more than even the first 10 years of your calculation and way more than just maintenance fees for 2 years...Of course cash is more flexible and I personally would never finance a vacation plan..it is luxury money- money left over after you take care of everything else as far as i am concerned...

Paul

[dbkelly]

I purchased a resale at OKW of 230 points and paid $65 per point. However, the final cost of the points was about $52 per point, because I had a lot of banked points that I rented. If I went on vacation during the summer and used a 2 bedroom at OKW for 9 days I would need 446 points. The cost per point over the 40 years is $1.30 per points ($52/40 years). My maintenance cost is $3.13 per point for a total cost of $4.03 per point. My total cost for the trip would be $1,797 (4.03x446pts) I believe you probably would spend approximately $3,000 for 9 nights at the Polynesion during the summer. I have now paid $1203 less for the same vacation. We are also not comparing apples with apples. OKW is a 2 bedroom villa and not a 300 and something square foot room. If I choose to stay in a studio at OKW for nine days it would only be 147 points for a total cost of $651. Now lets compare the $651 with $3,000. I have a family of five and we stayed in a hotel room this past spring and I almost lost my mind. The reason why we invested into DVC was not only because the tremendous value but because we could not bring ourselves to ever stay in one hotel room with the five of us, especially for 9 days! I know you feel that you are being picked on, but that is because we just can't understand your reasoning. Did you look into a resale which would cost you a lot less then $75 per point?

[WebmasterDoc]

On the Disney Cruise Line....
....DVC attempts to make it a value. Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.


DVC does not and never has promoted these non-DVC programs as a "value". It is promoted as one of the options of the program, but makes no suggestion that it is discounted in any way. It is up to us, as individual members, to decide the "value" to us of these options.

If you were considering DVC solely on the basis of these features instead of the stength of the DVC resorts, you were probably wise to reconsider and opt not to join. The options are just that- they are not the reason to buy- just an optional feature of the greater program.

Enjoy!

[Dean]

Originally posted by sgtpet
Obviously Dean it was never great, but now it is almost a useless benefit.
From my standpoint it was always an almost useless benefit as is the DC and CC. The only exceptions I can think of is to give you a chance to use points you would otherwise lose and couldn't rent out.

[PKS44]

Just a further follow up on Lisa P's post and her calculations, now that I have had a chance to look up the points and do some more calculations...those figures are inflated to look as bad as possible for 9 nights in a 2BR:

1)First why stay 2 weekends for a 9 day stay? That is just bad planning, bad point usage. Most airfares are better if you fly mid week, too.
-start the stay on a Sun or even a Wednesday and save-instead of 500 points for 9 nights it is 430 points at the BWV or VWL...

2)That calculation in based on BWV Preferred view, do standard view and the points drop to 370 for 9 nights. Stay at the OKW and drop it to 356.

3) There is no reason for her to pay the $75/point calculated- buy a resale of OKW as low as $65-$68/point or a BWV at $70-$72 and these are conservative...But lets say $71 to be fair-that is a purchse price of 13585(this price includes the closing costs) so that is an added $1359/trip using Lisa P's formula

Add that cost to the maintenance fees on 185 points, let's make it 200 since it is not likely she can find exactly the right resale, and you come up with a nightly cost of the lodgings of $323 for a 2BR at the BWV (standard view)...and that leaves wiggle room on points if the points change, etc...I don't see how 9 nights of standard view at the Poly is going to be less than that. Once you add in taxes it is around $340/night and for much much less. Change it to an OKW reasale and it is a clear slam dunk no matter how you slice it...

maybe she could buy a resale smaller than 200 points which makes it even less...and with her going every two years in the summer if she had the right use year say August, she could bank, and borrow effectively with less to have a trip in July one year and in August 2 years later, etc with occasional point renting as needed....all in all I still don't see how staying at Deluxe accomodations like the Poly every other summer could be cheaper....and again-most of the expense of all of the above is gone after the 10 years and it is strictly maintenance fees after that which go into the equation...I am sorry Lisa P and to the original poster whose name I confess I hav forgotten :confused: , but I still like the value of DVC for the situation described...

Paul

[Lisa P.]

Posted by PKS44: I see your math but it only accounts for the first 10 years, not the other 31...

Actually, it accounts for the first 20 years (5% per year, 10% per every other year trip). When DVC is under 20 years from the end of its contract, reselling is likely to yield a lower return, and that purchase money is sunk.

Also the original post said that 2 years' of maintenance was the same amount of money as she spent on the Poly for 5 people in a Poly room?

Yes and a single deluxe room at the Poly sleeps up to 5 adults. No need for 2 rooms. With DVC, the 2-BR is needed.

1)First why stay 2 weekends for a 9 day stay?

In the interest of using fewer valuable vacation days from work, most people who pay cash for a 9 night stay would almost always choose to enjoy 2 weekends. The original post stated that one adult was a teacher, but what about the spouse?

2)That calculation in based on BWV Preferred view

Or VWL... which is what some people prefer and what Disney is currently selling. Not everyone considers all DVC resorts equal and giving up their view matters to some as well. Further, everyone says to buy where you want to stay - perhaps that's at a MK resort (like the Poly or VWL). DVC requires a lot of finagling in order to stretch points and I offered a comparison that many would make. If that's the case, a purchase from Disney would be sought rather than a resale. This is not a general comparison for all people... but rather under particular circumstances.

maybe she could buy a resale smaller than 200 points

And own even less than what she needs just to try and force the numbers to fit??? I did that. It was a mistake. I'd never recommend it now. One ought to figure out what they would need to accomplish their goals and seek the best arrangement to do it. I applaud senorak for doing precisely that for her family and their particular needs.

...with occasional point renting as needed....

Another encouragement to buy insuffiently and then end up having to pay more cash anyway. Either it works or it doesn't.

Posted by dbkelly: The cost per point over the 40 years is $1.30 per points ($52/40 years).

You cannot divide your purchase price by 40 years in a linear way. You pay upfront and Disney keeps your money for investing for all those years. There's more loss than the upfront purchase price number, whether you didn't use some of that money in the early years for investing or you paid interest on a loan.

We are also not comparing apples with apples.

That's right. One is a fabulous monorail hotel with full services, including daily housekeeping, several restaurants, a beach overlooking the MK castle & fireworks, a boat marina and a room that sleeps 5 (hence, you cannot, unfortunately, compare OKW studio that sleeps 4). The other is a fabulous 2-BR housekeeping timeshare villa with all that space, kitchen, jacuzzi, privacy, sleeping up to 8, lots of family-friendly activities and only bus service to all parks. They are quite different.

But since senorak's follow-up post mentioned their stay at Poly, I did compare it. And I think it's a valid comparison, in that both options are available to a family of 5 and she believes that her family could enjoy either one. Values, moderates (after the youngest is older than 9) and studios are not options at that point. Offsite luxury timeshares (fairly similar to OKW) are also options that she thinks may work for her family.

Again, you've enjoyed good value and that's great! But DVC does not offer that same value to everyone. JMHO.

[one_cat]

I know this isn't apples to apples but here is our situation: By June 2002 we will have had DVC for 4 full use years. In that time we will have stayed 25 nights at DVC. In addition we have rented points to people who stayed 11 more nights. Of the 25 nights 12 of those were in a studio, 13 were in a two bedroom. If I assume a two bedroom is equivelent to renting two hotel rooms the total nights stayed on points would be 49 nights. We own 250 points so we pay dues of about 1300.00 per year. (granted we only had 150 points the first year but I won't count that) 1300.00 * 4 = 5200.00 / 49 = 106.00/night that I spent on dues. We spent 17400.00 for our points. divide that by 44 equals 395.00 per year. * 4 = 1580. If add the 4 year accrual of the cost of points the amount per night becomes 138.00 per night. I think that compares favorably with staying at the Poly.

[Joe T.]

There are so many ways to calculate the monetary value of a TS purchase, but in most cases the long range return appears to be poor. But only because "Garbage in - garbage out." TS ownership is not always an investment, but a method of pre-paying for vacations 30 - 40 years into the future. It seems inaccurate and misleading to compare the current cost of the TS purchase (even financed that is only 10 years) to the current cost of a Poly room with a rate of increase that will have the basic cost at $500 per night in just a few years. In 2042, our investment will have been expended, but an honest review of the benefits received will be better than any of our investments with very little risk. If one tried to extract the ever increaing cost of Poly rooms from a comparable investment, I believe one would find that the initial sum did not last 20 years, let alone 40. Remember the points are used tax free, but the money spent on the Poly rooms is after-tax. Ther are reasons not to buy a TS, but value or return on equity, particularly DVC. is not one of them.

[teri]

5 adults in one hotel room for 9 days? I wish you well. That wouldn't work for me and my DH. :o I like my private space. :) Good luck with your decision!

[Jeanne]

I hope planning in advance has not been a major turn off for you in this decision making process. My family has had no intention of being in Disney at all this year, the plan was to bank all of our points. In June, my friend and I decided to use some points for a "just the girls" few nights out on the town. Not only was I not planning in advance, we made our initial ressies 5 weeks out, got just what we wanted, I called back, 3 days before arrival and was able to make the changes that I wanted, from studio to 1 bdr. villa. There have been several times that we have not planned 11 months out, and because I am a teacher, we are always going at the busier times of year. This has never been a major problem for us. The great thing about making choices is that the choice is yours, and it schould be right for you.

[PKS44]

Well- Lisa I am not trying to pick a fight. Your numbers are correct and may be exactly applicable to senorak's situation. But they might not. I think that your examples stack the deck in a way that is not really a full evaluation of the possible value of DVC over staying at a deluxe resort,:earseek:

Lisa P wrote:
"Yes and a single deluxe room at the Poly sleeps up to 5 adults. No need for 2 rooms. With DVC, the 2-BR is needed."

Well, yes, but as others have pointed out, that is not ideal or even tolerable for 9 days for many particularly as children get older...this is an intangible, I just through it in as an addtional consideration in the comparison for future years, not just the one year she stayed with 5 in one room...

Lisa P wrote:
"In the interest of using fewer valuable vacation days from work, most people who pay cash for a 9 night stay would almost always choose to enjoy 2 weekends. The original post stated that one adult was a teacher, but what about the spouse?"

Again, that assumes a worst case scenario, not a full evaluation...Maybe "most people" do it the way you say, maybe senorak does but could be flexible...what if they save on 5 separate airfares by flying mid week...there would be two big financial reasons to use 3 more vacation days for what senorak says is their big vacation anyway...but if they have to do it with 2 weekends the costs still don't have to be as bad as your example based on preferred view or VWL.


Lisa P wrote:
"Not everyone considers all DVC resorts equal and giving up their view matters to some as well. Further, everyone says to buy where you want to stay - perhaps that's at a MK resort (like the Poly or VWL). DVC requires a lot of finagling in order to stretch points and I offered a comparison that many would make. If that's the case, a purchase from Disney would be sought rather than a resale. This is not a general comparison for all people... but rather under particular circumstances."

Again I see all of this as one possibility but only the most negative one. First, I don't see any excuse to buy from Disney rather than a resale explained in your post here... All 3 WDW DVC are available as resales and for less than Disney. So I don't know why anyone would prefer to buy from Disney if the point size /use year could be found at resale- unless they had to have it close immediately...Further, you assumed a view is important- but that costs extra at the Poly increasing the cost for the stay- and again if staying at the Poly is the main thing, of course DVC is all wrong, but my impression was that the argument was made on economic grounds almost entirely, not on the specifics of any resort, and senorak was not citing any particular feature of any resort, therefore I based my assessment on economics, not intangibles like whether they wanted to be on the monorail, etc, which were not mentioned...(monorail in particular is completely irrelevant to DVC- if you want Monorail- you don't can't find it at all in DVC)


I wrote:
"maybe she could buy a resale smaller than 200 points"


to which Lisa P replied:

"And own even less than what she needs just to try and force the numbers to fit??? I did that. It was a mistake. I'd never recommend it now. One ought to figure out what they would need to accomplish their goals and seek the best arrangement to do it. I applaud senorak for doing precisely that for her family and their particular needs."

Unless they MUST have the extreme situation as you framed it they don't need more than 185 points to do 9 days every 2 years at current point structures, and I would also add senorak was talking about anywhere from 7 to 10 days, so when you take it down to 7 or 8 days the value of DVC is even clearer.

Lisa P wrote:
"Offsite luxury timeshares (fairly similar to OKW) are also options that she thinks may work for her family."

Again this gets into some intangibles and the whole onsite off site debate which is far removed from the economic points I was addressing.

Lisa P wrote:
But DVC does not offer that same value to everyone. JMHO."

Of course- the value will depend on the situation, which in senorak's case neither of us knows for sure. You gave an honest but I felt incomplete and perhaps too pessimistic scenario. I felt it was important to show that there is a plausible alternative that compares very favorably with Deluxe accomodations and still met the general parameters that senorak mentioned. Senorak may not have considered all the possibilities...If she did and still did not find DVC for her, that's okay, too...I was just trying to show the full range of economic breakdowns-leaving the intangibles up to the individual preferences...I don't disagree with your opinion, I am not seeking to put any "opinion" forward here...Just various calculations of value besides the scenario you put forward.

Paul :smooth:

[dbkelly]

I totally agree with your comeback on how I calculated the overall cost of my investment over 40 years. The reason why I did not bring the time value of money into my analysis, is because unless you are a CPA like myself or a business professional, the concept can be very difficult to understand. The other reason why I did not consider the time value of money is because the prices of the Poly is going to increase every year. Disney had a 10% increase last year. This analysis can be very complicated, however I did do it on an excel spreadsheet and I was always a head of the game. I did numerous analyses and my rate of return was always excellent.

I also made an analysis of the people who owned the resale before me. According to their purchase date, I believe they paid $51 per share. They sold the shares for $65 per share, less $6.50 per share for commissions. Thus, their profit on the resale was $1725. Now lets add 9 years of fees which is approximately $6,479. Their total cost (not including the timevalue of money) was $4,754 for 9 years of vacations or $528 per year!

Besides all of my analyses, it was also very important to us that we stay in a much larger unit then a hotel room. The cramped quarters with 5 of us, was not enjoyable on our last trip. I am very happy for any family who can get along in a 300 sq ft something room for 9 days. Actually I am very jealous of a family who could accomplish that goal.

[DeeP]

I do not have the time nor the energy to go into all the detailed math calculations on whether DVC is a good value or not---I use the simple method. I bought into DVC 2 1/2 years ago and paid $60.00 a point; those same points are now selling for $75.00 a point, plus we have taken 5 WDW vacations (averaging 9 days per stay) in that time using our DVC points.The only thing we have had to pay was our membership dues. I don't know how others are figuring it out but it has certainly saved me major money spent on WDW rooms and we had first class deluxe accomendations at BWV & OKW! When I add up what I have spent for pre DVC WDW rooms for a 2 1/2 year period and 5 trips it was a lot more money than I have spent since I joined DVC, and some of our previous trips before DVC were at moderate resorts!!!! And we have another 38 years of DVC use left!!
I agree that you can buy a TS off Disney property for a lot less than DVC but I would not even consider staying at an offsite resort (been there, done that, never doing it again), let alone buying a TS off Disney property!! No thank you, maybe ignorance is bliss, but this ignorant person is very happy with my DVC purchase and all the extra money I have in my pocket since my DVC is paid for and I am no longer paying the ever rising high costs of WDW resorts. It definitley works for me!! Now if I could only figure out a way to have my stock investments increase at the same rapid rate that my DVC point value is, I would be set. LOL!!!

[senorak]

Wow...didn't realize my simple statement would create such a debate! In all honesty....I loved the "samples" of the v illas rooms I was shown during the DVC presentation (I would never consider buying w/o seeing what I am getting). And yes, IF you plan to use the DVC facilities often (every other year or more), I agree that DVC is a good buy. In fact, I have to be honest and tell you that after meeting with the DVC rep and seeing the villas, comparing the prices and factoring in how often I would like to return to WDW, I am swayed towards buying. HOWEVER....there are some "stumbling blocks" my DH is not a Disney person----he has no desire to return in the next few years. I know, this could lower my room needs to a 1BR and even less points. And yes, I would consider traveling w/o him. The reservations I have...and they may not make sense to many of you.....are several of what Lisa mentioned. The POLY really spoiled us for the ease in getting in/out of MK and Epcot. With 2 children under the age of 6, you can just "zip" right out and be back at the htel quickly. And no, I didn't mind the size of the room...though it was large. And the room we had was concierge...and I enjoyed grabbing a snack or drink whenever we wanted. I know...the villas have full kitchens....but when flying to WDW, I don't have room for packing food....or worse, for bringing the leftover food home. I love to eat at the many excellent restaurants in WDW....so I would still have those high costs. The biggest "block" for me is simply the time I can travel and try to get the most points for the value. I know I can go mid-late Aug. and use less points than the rest of the summer. But that would be about the only time I could go. And to be truthful, while money is not an issue for us, (we could probably buy into the DVC at 200 points and pay it off in a year), my DH is really "hung up" on the maintenance fees and the 40 year lease (our other TSs being deeded forever). I have to sit down and do some serious thinking and planning and ask myself how often I will (truly) be returning to WDW....and if I find that DVC will work for us; then by all means I will buy into the program. I think DVC is great...for those families for whom it works well. I would love for it to work for us....but it is an individual decision. I would hate to buy into DVC and not be able to use it....and then feel resentful or regret my purchase. The other factors I have to add in would of course be airfare. Perhaps what I will do is talk with some of my extended family...and see if they would be interested in "sharing" a DVC purchase w/ me. I thank you all for your opinions....but please try to understand that DVC is not for everyone. I have other TS that I use for trading value and one that I use simply because it is close to our home here in PA and an easy "getaway". DVC is much more (outright purchase) than any of the other TS I own and the maintenance fees are up to 3x as much. I want to make sure I make an informed decision and one that is right for OUR FAMILY.

DEB

[Diznut84]

I have two points to make:

1) In comparison, DVC has much more flexibility than most other timeshare options.
a) How many timeshares allow you to choose the number of nights that you wish to stay? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).
b) How many timeshares allow you to make an internal exchange for free? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).
c) How many timeshares allow you to cancel a reservation outside of 60 days without any financial penalty or loss of trade value? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).
d) How many timeshares allow you to exchange into many different locations without holding membership in a major exchange company? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).
e) How many timeshares will allow you to make reservations during any time of they year, even if you own a period different from the one you are requesting? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).
f) How many timeshares let you bank and borrow your ownership interest (with no penalty) to accomodate your vacation needs? Answer: Very few (not Marriott).

My point: Although Marriott is a great timeshare company, they are nowhere near as flexible as DVC in their core timeshare offerings. DVC remains an industry leader in the flexibility it provides its members.

2) When calculating the total cost of ownership, don't forget to estimate the different decline in value of other timeshares relative to DVC. Try purchasing a new Marriott week from the developer. When a resale market becomes available, you may only get 60% of the value or less on your resale. Many original DVC members can sell their timeshare purchase for the original purchase price or even higher. Thus, their true costs would only be the maintenance fees and the loss of using that money elsewhere. The calculation changes significantly when comparing to the total cost of other timeshares...

In my opinion, DVC is usually a GREAT value for those who insist upon staying on Disney grounds. Of course, if you don't mind staying off grounds, you can always save a bunch of money, but that is true with the regular resorts as well as DVC membership. To each their own!

[PamOKW]

I wonder if DVC dues are higher because they make a conscious effort to build the reserve funds? It's true we have some additional expenses such as the buses/boats and maintaining high quality resorts but the reserve may factor in. I have heard of timeshares leveling special assessments when a new roof, new pool, etc. are needed. DVC is trying to plan for all future major maintenance by budgeting a certain amount towards this fund every year. The likelihood of special assessments is very small.

[Dean]

senorak, I'd be cautious in buying in the situation you've described. You can always looke for deals at the Poly or similar resorts and/or rent from a DVC member when you need to. The dues are high because it's Disney, Orlando area, quality and the flexibility in the system. Good luck with your decision.

[deerh]

maintenance fees are up to 3x as much Senorak said..

You have got to stop and think about this. YES, you can stay at another TS for a lot less main. fee, but, what is the condition of the resort? I have seen the resorts with Low main. fees, and no thank you, they are not in the class with disney. Marriott is not cheap either, just look on the web for resales of Marriott in Hilton Head or other places. I think you get what you pay for IMHO.......
deerh

[JonHM]

Welcome back! I agree that you should take this decision very slowly and deliberately and fully consider whether it is right for you and your family or not. That said, I wanted to make a few comments:

Remember your 'safety valves' that exist should you not be able to take a trip in a given year: You can always 'bank' or 'borrow' the points, can use them somewhere Non-DVC that might be closer to home or easier to drag your DH to ;) , OR you can always rent out your points for a particular year if you need to.

As far as being spoiled by the quick access from Poly to MK and Epcot, remember that BWV has very easy access to both Epcot and MGM, and that VWL has very easy access (via boat) to MK.

Personally, I think too many people get hung up on the end date of the program. Here is my take on it: I look at it as comparable to buying a car. It's in the same price range, and we will have our DVC purchase paid off within 10 years. At 10 years, most cars are either long since retired, or on their last legs. In 10 years, however, I will still have over 30 years worth of vacations for merely the cost of the maintenance fees! Again, this has to be right for YOU, but for DW and myself, this was *tremendous* value.

Keep in mind, you don't have to 'cook' to take advantage of the kitchen. You could bring leftovers from all of the fantastic restaurants 'home' with you, and enjoy them again at a later meal. I know we found it very frustrating staying in GF this June that we could not do that. We either had to eat more than we wanted in many cases, or see it go to waste. But you don't have to think of the kitchen simply in terms of staying in and cooking things from scratch. It's also great for quick in-room breakfasts before heading out to the parks.

Several last points: are you REALLY sure that all of the companies who own your other TS's are still going to be in business in 40 years? Or that they will truly keep the resort in the same condition that it is in now, 40 years from now? From that standpoint, the 'lifetime' deeding can be a misleading concept.

To me, the biggest issue for you is your non-Disney DH. I would suggest starting a thread asking about non Disney spouses who have been 'converted' over the years... :D I bet that you would get a LOT of stories...

Again, good luck with your decision, take it very slowly and deliberately, and be sure to post ANY questions that you have to the board. Take Care!

[senorak]

I love your well thought out responses, Jon. Am taking your advice and posting a new thread re: Non Disney loving spouses. Thanks for the idea.

DEB

[Zimbubba]

I read this entire thread with great interest focusing on value of DVC. We go every other year and have since 1985. Beginning in 1989 we stayed at the CBR. It sold us on Disney hotel quality at a then very affordable $69.00 MKC rate. The selling point for us was price stability for quality accomodations. Look at what the CBR costs now. In 1995 we locked in those costs, avaiability, and quality. We bank points every other year allowing for a 10 day stay in the middle of summer. There is real value here.

I do agree that some things are disappearing. I believe we will all be surprised when we get the new member handbook. Publishing yearly allows for some Disney flexability as many people will simply discard previous editions. I think more "perks" will disappear.

I believve member services needs to keep up with membership. Long gone are the days of calling in and not being put on hold. They do not give consistent answers and some lack basic skills. These may be growing pains but also panic ensues when writers and readers of this and other boards make people feel they need to call all the time. (The suggestion was recently made to call every day (until all days are booked)for summer reservations---simply not needed!)

Overall it is still high quality--high value.

[Lisa P.]

Originally posted by deerh
You have got to stop and think about this. YES, you can stay at another TS for a lot less main. fee, but, what is the condition of the resort? I have seen the resorts with Low main. fees, and no thank you...

This is not really relevant if one is buying outside overbuilt Orlando and trading into the area. There are MANY brand new (newer than DVC OKW) Gold Crown & 5 Star resorts with big, fun, feature pools and other terrific amenities. DVC is not the only timeshare company to offer REALLY NICE resorts in the area. Trading in is pretty easy, with a little advance planning (needed with DVC too).

[senorak]

Thanks, LisaP, I agree w/ you....the timeshares I have are 4 and 5 star and have traded into 5 star resorts which are just as spacious, comfortable, up-to-date, etc. as DVC villas. You have to admit that when you compare that I spent less than $7k buying my 3 other TS (resale totals for all 3) and their maintenance fees (combined) are less than $700...it does make me (and mostly DH) hesitate about DVC. For DH, he doesn't care whether we are in WDW itself or nearby (tho yes, he does admit that you can't beat the convenience of being "on property") and he does prefer the "wilder" theme parks of Universal/Islands of Adventure, Busch Gardens, etc. So, that is a major sticking point for me. Again, I'm glad DVC works for so many people.....I'm just trying to decide if it will work as well for us...or if we're better off sticking with our "traditional" TSs and just trade into the Orlando area and perhaps stay a few nights on property in WDW resorts at discounted rates.

DEB

[Dreamfinder2]

Senorak, I've been real interested in this thread just because we're dealing with some of the same questions you are. I appreciate the responsiveness of the other posters. Just wondering -- where else do you own, since you don't seem to have had much trouble trading into the WDW area?

[senorak]

Dreamfinder- We currently own a week at Shawnee in the Poconos and are in the process of buying a weeks in So. California and a South African TS. We have used the Shawnee TS to stay mainly in the Pocono area (with the smaller children, we loved the hour and half drive from our home) but this year, I traded our 2001 week for a 2002 summer week at Orange Lake Country Club. I have researched my 2 new purchases and according to other TS owners, will have no problem trading into the Orlando area (since there is such a glut of TS properties there). The S.CA week will also tade very well just about anywhere else. At this time, I'm looking mainly into FLA and some of the coastal areas in the East.

DEB

[mickey1010]

Sort of on topic...

I would just like to say that we have had two experiences with the DVC Concierge Collection and believe that it IS a value. We stayed in a deluxe room at the Plaza Hotel in New York for 110 points. The *cheapest* rate that I found for that room was $600/night. We purchased into the DVC in 6/1999. I did the calculations and for the life of the agreement, including maintenance fees & mortgage, we were able to determine the cost per point is approximately $5. $5 x 110 points is $550 for two nights that would have cost us $1200 if we would have paid cash!!! If I do my subtraction correctly, less the $75 reservation fee, we ended up saving $575!

Our second experience is at the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island, MI. This was also 110 points, the room rates were $275/night/person. That's $550 per night, or $1100 for the weekend. Again, a savings of $475 (less $75).

To me, that's a pretty good deal. More so than the money we saved on these weekends, these are things that we probably would not have done if not for being DVC members. It's much easier to use 110 points then lay down $1200 for weekend accomodations. I TOTALLY agree that you get more time (not value, because value is a personal measurement differing from each individual) if you use your DVC points exclusively at DVC resorts and we have gotten a great deal of use out of them as well. As we get more vacation time (only one more year of 2.5 weeks!), we will probably be spending even more time at the resorts to stretch our points farther. But for know, we enjoy some of the extra perks and flexibility of DVC.

It's not for everybody, I'll be the first to admit that. However, for us it's been one of the best purchases we've made. And as my calculations above show, it can be used outside of the DVC resorts to save money on accomodations. :)

[Dean]

Package Price
$164.00* per person, per night, and the third night is free

This is a quote from their website currently, of course it's for Sept timeframe. They have other specials listed that would cover other times. The points for this time would be around 100 for 2 nights. So for that timeframe it's $656 (plus tax) vs $1075 (100 pts plus the $75 fee). At pretty close to a break even point of around $8 pp for many of us. Probably one of the better deals in the CC and certainly better than Keystone or the Plaza when I looked at them. Some days are higher and the numbers would change accordingly. Of course most of us wouldn't pay $700 for a 2 night stay but some would.

[deerh]

When I purchased DVC in 1999, I did 6 months of research on this. I read timeshare magazines, spent forever on the internet, and talked to people. I even listened to Clark Howard here in Atlanta say, NO to timeshares, except maybe the big companies, and he even said, only if you use it is it a deal. So, I know where you come from. As one poster said, it is the cost of a nice used car or SUV, 10,000-19,000 dollars, and THEY depreciate! And I have 40 years left, not 10-12 years like a car. It all depends on what you want. My decision was based on the 2 big players-Marriott and Disney. I did not want to fool with the other TS operations, I wasn't sure if they would be around in 40 years or not. So, YES, I pay more in dues than others, but I wanted a quality property and well kept up property, so Marriott and Disney were my 2 choices. If you want to stay Off property, than buy a cheaper TS and skip DVC. If you want on property, than DVC is the way to go. You sound savey on TS, so you could pick the cream in the Orlando area, they are many, but be careful, a friend of mine bought right outside Disney, Nice, NEW, TS, and can only get through to Members Service with 1 hour waits, and can't get the time she wants, etc, etc, Not everything is as it seems in the TS world..........
Good luck in your decision, it is not an easy one.
deerh

[Muushka]

I listen to Clark Howard here in NC! I love his show, and he is right on.

We debated DVC for 2 years. Finally bought at VWL (which is where we wanted to own).

We are very careful about money, frugal I like to call it!