Baby on plane - where do you put them if not in a carseat?

[PrincessasMommy]

I was just wondering what others do......

We are traveling by plane for the first time with all 5 of us! We will be lugging 3 kids, 2 carseats, 1 playpen, luggage, double stroller and poor Dad! I don't want to bring more than I need.....so for those of you who have not purchased a seat for baby - I would do it if we could afford too, I know it is safer but we are paying $500.00 per person (the children are charged full price) for 4 of us ($2000.00 isn't that insane??) so opted to hold the baby (8 months when travelling). I called the airline and they told us to bring the baby carseat up to the plane incase there is an empty seat they will allow us to use it.

Long story for a short question really......
Would you put baby in a front carrier (Snugli) or in a sling while on the plane? I am a terrible flyer - too many kids to look after to be drugged or else I would - I am scared to death and that we couldn't spend the extra $500.00 to get her a seat makes me feel worse. We are staying off-site and only there for 4 days so it's not like we are staying at a high-end resort and being cheap, kwim?

[disnutt]

There is a Baby B'air that is a vest that you put on baby and can then hook your seat belt through. They are at www.onestepahead.com for about $29.99.

[jel0511]

MY first question is this: If your child was 2 and required by law to have a seat would you still be going? I'm sorry, but saying you're not buying your child a seat to save money isn't a good answer. My child is worth more than $500 to me, actually they are priceless, and it's definitely worth it to secure their safety. You can't use anything to seucre the child, like you're mentioning, they're actually illegal to use during times the seatbelt sign is illuminated. Which of course is the time you'd want your child secured. So, you're stuck holding your child, and hoping for the best.

Edited to add: that the item listed above is only approced for using during cruise when the seat belt sign IS NOT illuminated. It can not be used during take offs and landings, as well as during turbulance.

[lclark0621]

When we fly with DS we buy him a seat for room.

I bought one of those flight vest from One Step Ahead. It attaches him to my or DH's seatbelt.

It has worked really well in the past. We even used it when we fly to Europe (8+ hours) & DS is wonderful in it. I will take it off & let him stretch a bit on long flights, but for the most part he is attached to me.

On shorter flights, like here to Orlando, DS will usually sleep the whole time so it works wonderfully.

[3mickeys&me]

I have flown with my ds #1 when he was 14 mos old on my lap. He was fine. He was easy to entertain. He spent some time on my lap and some on dh's.

Do what works best for you and your family.

[Annette_VA]

DS1 just sat on my lap when we went.

I believe that you are not allowed to have baby in a Snugli during a flight.

[rgribik]

:flower: I know many people have very strong feelings on the car seat in an airplane question, but we have been flying from PA to Disney(and all over the usa) since my oldest was 10 months old(she is now 12) and I never used a car seat. We now fly with twins and both my husband and I hold one. I have never had any trouble holding a baby(maybe I'm lucky). And yes my 5 kids are the most precious thing in the world to me, but let's face it, if the plane goes down your carseat isn't going to help. We have hit some terrible turbulance and I feel better holding my babies. I travel as light as possible, but just relax you will be fine. Don't let anyone tell you that you should not take a vacation just because it isn't their way of taking one.

[Kasmir]

Please don't think me judgmental, but I shudder at the thought of a baby of mine becoming a flying missile during an air crisis. It is literally physically impossible for you to continue to grip your baby -- no matter how hard you try -- if the airplane were to make a sudden and sharp descent or if you were to encounter severe turbulence.

Of course, when you consider how many planes complete safe flights each day, you probably have a better chance of dying from a rattlesnake bite in downtown Manhattan than having your baby become a statistic.

The same is true for your house burning down, but you still have homeowner's insurance.

I would look at puchasing the extra seat as insurance and secure my child in an FAA-approved child seat. I would make up for it by cutting down the budget in other ways.

I just wouldn't be able to live with myself if something were to happen that harmed my child, but was preventable.

Again, you make your own decision and I am not trying to foist my opinion on you, but it is definitely an issue to consider.

Most people would be horrified if, at a stoplight, they looked over at the next car and saw a seatbelted woman holding an infant loose in her lap. Air travel should be no different....

I hope that you're able to resolve your issue...
Sheila

[peanuttrip]

Our child is now five years old, so we do not have a choice is buying a seat. We traveled for the first time when she was three months old and bearly had enough money to buy tickets for my wife and I let alone one for a baby. We flew southwest so there was no assigned seats, but were able to board first with a baby. We sat in a row with three seats and one of us held the baby. We were lucky enough the it was time for a bottle, so while everyone else was boarding I was feeding the baby. As the plane begain to fill up and passengers begin to look at the seat between us i would think it was time to wip the excess formula away from her mouth and pull the bottle out to clean her up and she would start to cry. When the person saw what they were going to sit next to they looked elsewhere. Once they had everyone aboard we pulled down her car seat straped her in and she sleep the whole fight. The funny thing about it was we were told that the flight was full, if not over booked, don't know but it worked great for us.

[Kasmir]

It's me again... I just wanted to comment and clarify something that rgribik said...

I'm not saying that you shouldn't take a vacation. That's silly. I just wanted to put that out there! Of course your children are precious to you, or you wouldn't have even bothered to ask this question. They are lucky to have you for a mom!

But one thing that should be corrected: To say that "if the plane goes down your car seat isn't going to help" is wrong. Most plane crisis don't result in devastating crashes, and likewise, many plane crashes don't result in catastrophic deaths.

[rgribik]

:sad2: Listen, I don't want to debate air safety, I can come up with stats too if needed, but everyone is so ready to jump on people who ask this kind of question and I just wanted to put some of her fears to rest. I personally hate flying, but sometimes have no choice. And yes my kids always use carseats in the car, wear bike helmets and don't run with scissors. I worry more on the Disney buses that wing around corners and seem to drive 90 miles an hour than I do on a plane. Maybe it would be nice if for all the money we spend on airfare, they would provide seats for the carseat ages.

[J/T Gramdma]

I firmly believe in car seats and securing your child. My child's life was saved by a carseat before they were mandatory. That said- if I could not afford the ticket I would make sure my child could be secured somehow, a snugly or the item mentioned earlier that secured her to a parent seatbelt. The air attendents, if there is an emergency will tell you to hold or put the child on the floor and then will sit down and buckle themselves in their seatbelts. They don't care what you do, they are only required to tell you what youare supposed to do according to the regs. If the child is on the floor,they become a missle and usually do not survive. So please secure your child so you and the child will be ok. Just my 2cents worth!

[akrake]

my question is why do you have to pay full price for your kids? mine always fly at a discounted rate & the baby (infant in a seat under age 2) flies at an even cheaper rate. you can get these rates via a travel agent, airline website or orbitz.
amie
ps. i'd get a seat.

[Kasmir]

I know what you were trying to say, rgribik, and I wasn't trying to debate... I understand where you're coming from and I wasn't trying to jump on anyone! I was just giving my opinion.

Yes, airlines SHOULD have safety seats for children who are still in car seats! But I don't think that the original OP's post was as much about the car seat issue, as it was about having to purchase an additional airfare.

[tjmw2727]

To answer your question, your baby must stay on your lap (or dh's etc) and can not be secured to you in any way, via seat belt or vest harness device or snugli or sling.

If you doubt this you can check with your carrier but I am 100% certain these are not approved for flight and I have seen a FA confiscate a snugli to be returned after the flight. Anything other than a CSR with a sticker indicating it is approved for use in the aircraft can not be used. I still can't figure out how the Baby B'Air can claim what it does as it can not be used on a US commercial airline. Perhaps they can be used on internations flights?

Check with your carrier for specifics and bring the carseat in case there is an open seat.

I will try and find my links for flying with children - esp those that deal with lap children.

TJ

Ok found it, from AA website - Delta, Southwest and Jet Blue are similar in wording.
here is the link
https://www.aa.com/content/travelInformation/specialAssistance/childrenTraveling.jhtml#Seating%20Restrictions

In case my link dosen't work here is a quote:

These are the Non-Approved:

"FAA Non-Approved Infant Seat or Child Restraint Devices
The following may not be used when an infant seat or child restraint device is required:
Any device without an approval label
Booster seats without an approval label or shoulder harness
Belt extensions that attach to the parent or the parent's restraint
Any device that positions a child on the lap or chest of an adult "

[PrincessasMommy]

I was just wondering what others do......

.....so for those of you who have not purchased a seat for baby - I would do it if we could afford too, I know it is safer ..........Would you put baby in a front carrier (Snugli) or in a sling while on the plane? ...........I am scared to death and that we couldn't spend the extra $500.00 to get her a seat makes me feel worse.

Perhaps I should have gone into greater detail.............

This is not a planned Disney vacation, and was soooo not in our budget, but my 85 year old grandmother is slowly dying and her last wish is to meet my 2 youngest children as she has never met them . Her Cardiologist told us to get there as soon as we can so April it is. She lives near Disney and as a result we will be visiting there as we have a 9 year old and to be so close to her dream and not take her would not be fair in our opinion. This is why budget is a factor, we have 3 children, just bought a new house and I am presently on maternity leave so $$ is tight. I feel that I should explain as my screen name indicates I am the mom of 3 true Princesses, they are beautiful, wonderful children and I am blessed to have them. I would never do anything to harm them and for the record, my travel agent told me that she has never had someone ask to purchase a seat for a baby under 2 (although she has been looking into it for me - before this post might I add). I am just looking for alternatives so my baby will be attached to me somehow as I clearly am concerned for her safety. I thank many of you for your kindness even when trying to enlighten me and to the poster who asked if my child is worth $500.00, well that's just a silly question, isn't it? Not trying to start a debate but looking for genuine assistance.

[Schmeck]

Well, it sounds like you're not allowed to attach your child to yourself with any type of device, so what are the options? Either get the seat, or hold the baby without restraints. I second the motion to check with your airline.

My thoughts and prayers are with your family, especially your grandmother.

Another idea - would it be cheaper to drive?

Noted - you live in Canada, oops! Well, the east coast of Canada isn't too bad of a drive, two (long) days...

[Colinsmom]

Airfare for babies under the age of two is normally half price, so $250 instead of $500. We have always purchased a seat for DS (of course, now that he is over two, we are required to do so) and have always paid approximately half of the adult fare. If your travel agent can't figure this out, try calling the airline directly on your own.

[eeyore45]

Wow TJ thanks for posting that link... I've not heard that! When I flew with DD she was 8 months old and I had her in the sling, I thought that if there were turbalents, she'd be in the sling, if I had to leave the aircraft, she'd be secure attatched to me!! I imagine some fool sued the airlines, or some lawyer saw a possiblitie of a lawsuit...

to the OP, there is a transportation folder, you might try and post on, I noticed some people who work for the airlines post there!

and :grouphug: it must be hard for you in so many respects, your on maternity leave, and you have to visit a special grandparent! :grouphug:

[Kasmir]

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandmother... I know that is very hard... :grouphug:

I hope that you and your family have a wonderful trip and make many precious memories together...

[NotUrsula]

I thought that if there were turbalents, she'd be in the sling, if I had to leave the aircraft, she'd be secure attatched to me!! I imagine some fool sued the airlines, or some lawyer saw a possiblitie of a lawsuit...

No, that's not it at all. The reason that they are banned is that dummy tests have shown that in the event of an impact that causes passengers to be thrown forward (such as happens when two planes cross too closely on a runway, or when a takeoff has to be aborted), an infant secured to a parent's body will be crushed between the adult and the seat in front; the child's body will act as an airbag. In the event of trouble, being on the floor is safer than being on an adult's lap, as the legs of adults and the seat brackets will help to prevent a baby from becoming either an airbag or a human missile.

[ptslp]

After reading these posts, I am curious what people do when their baby is crying in their seat and is incosolable? I bought a seat for my son when he was an infant and ended up having to hold him most of our return flight because all he would do is cry in the carseat.

Also, I did use my baby bjorn on the flight- no one said anything about it. Now that I have read the previous post, I can understand why not to use it, but it was not made clear to me on the plane.

I know that there are some airlines that give the 50% discount for infants in a seat, but there are many that do not. I know they are considering making it a law that all children that require carseats be in a carseat on a plane- that would make it all easier- no decisions to make!

[dtsaos]

Hi, scanned the responses really quick, but I just wanted to add:
4 yrs ago we used the Baby b'air from one step ahead when my son was 4 months old and I thought it was one of the greatest things ever. He was secured to my seat belt the entire time we were in the plane and I held him in my arms as well. Maybe it's selfish of me, but if he were in the car seat, I probably would've wanted to hold him the whole time and knowing my son, he would've screamed the whole time too! However, at that time, I don't remember it being as much of an issue as it seems to be now. We don't fly anymore-that was a one time deal for a family thing-so now we drive or take the train everywhere. Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people think the baby b'air is bad, I personally thought it was designed very well and would recommend it. And I know I'm gonna get flamed for this-whatever! To me it wasn't about saving money, it was about being able to hold my baby safely and securely during the flight. Our flight home was quite turbulant and I just kept thinking that I was so glad I could hold him in my arms and know that he wouldn't fly out of them if godforbid the plane was going down or something. Just my 2 cents.

[Tara]

First off, definitely inquire about half-price fares for your little one.

Second, definitely take the seat with you to the gate. If they have an open seat, they will work to move you around so you can use the seat for the baby.

Third, check with your carrier. I see you are in Canada -- I know some European airlines offer a special clip that you can use to somehow belt the baby to you. My memory on this is very vague, but I recall looking it up when a friend mentioned it.

As someone else said, Baby B'air isn't approved for take-off and landing by the FAA, but that might not apply to you if you are on a non-US carrier.

[Tara]

I know that there are some airlines that give the 50% discount for infants in a seat, but there are many that do not. I know they are considering making it a law that all children that require carseats be in a carseat on a plane- that would make it all easier- no decisions to make!

That legislation has been kicked around for a while. I think the AAP is pushing it this time (I can't remember for sure), but an FAA study a few years back showed that requiring children under 2 to be ticketed passengers would result in more families opting to drive rather than fly, thereby increasing the danger to those children because more would be likely to die in auto accidents. It might actually go through this time, though -- who knows.

[magicfan]

Maybe you could book a redeye flight, or on a day/time where not as many people are traveling, that way you have a good chance that there will be an extra seat available, and you won't have to pay for it. Just a thought.

[the kabuki]

PrincessasMomma- Don't let other people judge or flame you because you're not buying an extra seat. The youngest age mine flew at was 2, and never put them in a car seat. And that little ones' going to end up in your lap for 99% of the flight anyways, so why buy another tix?

[metta4]

First of all...Hugs to you and your family. I am sorry your asking for advice has seem to turn into a bit of a debate...I am sure that is not what you wanted or need right now.

I have 2 boys. My oldest will be 3 at the time of travel and will have his own seat. The youngest will be 1.5 and will be in my lap.

All I can saw is do what is best and right for you and your family. Look at all your options and make an informed decision...don;t let anyone imply or tell you that you are a bad mother if you don't side with their feelings on the issue.

Again..Hugs to you and your family.

[lovethattink]

When my son was 18 months old we didn't buy him a ticket. For us it was a BIG mistake. He would not sit on our laps. He wanted to play. He wanted to run. So the next time we flew, we used the car seat. He sat in it the whole time. Played with his toys while seated. We had a much nice flight.

[disnutt]

Never had a problem with the Baby B'Air when I used it a few years back. FA saw it on baby and didn't say a word. I even used it during take off/landing.

We're able to get a seat for all three kids now. We used the BB by itself a couple years ago when I was in grad school with 2 little ones. We've got a 3rd one now and we've got the seat but also the BB for in case DS gets fussy and wants to sit on our laps. That's probably going to be the majority of the time. He's fine in the carseat in the car because he can't see my lap but once he senses that I'm available he wants to sit there.

On my last flight I saw at least 4 babes in arms. None of the parents had any slings/BB or anything. It may be IDEAL to have the child in a seat but the Baby B'Air seems to offer some control of a less than ideal situation.

[tjmw2727]

It may be IDEAL to have the child in a seat but the Baby B'Air seems to offer some control of a less than ideal situation.

Except that they are not allowed on US carriers! As mentioned before anything that you use to "attach" baby to your person can result in the baby acting as your airbag. I know people have been able to use them in the past but in my experience they are not allowed and I have seen many parents not able to use them. I have seen on two occasions when the parent has been insistant on using it and the FA has removed the sling/snugli/ BBA to be returned after the flight.

I have not commented on the OP's choice not to buy the seat - just trying to impart information - I posted links above and I am trying to help the OP and all others make an informed decistion. What they decide is up to them.

TJ

[DissyLove]

I held our baby on our last trip, because the flight attendant said lap children must be held, not restrained if we are sharing a seat. I don't know if that is true for all airlines, but you may want to look in to it. Good luck on your travels! :goodvibes

[Tinkim]

On our first trip to WDW my DD was then 18 months old. My DH and I discussed it and we both felt she needed her own seat for her carseat. She was very good on the plane and stayed in her carseat the entire time except for that one interesting trip to the tiny bathroom to change her diaper. ;) We didn't get a discounted seat so yes we paid extra and yup it was a pain to lug the carseat onto the plane without beheading the other passengers or rendering them unconscious but this is what worked best for us. You have to make a choice based on your own circumstances even if other people don't agree with your choice. Good luck with your decision. Read the advice here and then make up your own mind. I think you will know the right decision to make for your family. Incidentally, we went down to Florida to see DH's grandfather as the kids had never met him and they wouldn't have had another chance to do so if we hadn't gone when we did. So I understand that situation very well and I'm sorry your grandmother is not well. Have a good trip and just do what is right for you.

[dtsaos]

so basically what some of you are saying is that it's better to hold your baby and not attach them to you so that if the plane crashes your baby can go flying out of your arms and have certain death? I never heard about the baby acting as an "air bag" thing before, but even if that's true, why would the airlines let you just "hold" them if that's the case? Pretty much if you hold them without a restriant system then they will definetly die if the plane crashes but you might survive? Sounds pretty crappy to me! On the other hand if you bring a car seat, what are the odds that the baby will actually stay in it during flight anyway? So you're right back to holding your baby without restraint again! That's why to me the baby b'air makes so much sense. And let's be real people, no I don't have statistics on this but I'm pretty sure that for the most part when planes crash there's very little chance for survival unlike when cars get into accidents. I hate to say this but i really think that the whole car seat on planes thing started because it became the politically correct thing to do.
Lst year I was on a similar thread to this, and I suggested the baby b'air and someone that was sooooo against it said that it was totally illegal and that one step ahead didn't sell it anymore, etc. I was like "oh my G_ _ ! i'm so sorry that I brought it up" and then I checked the one step ahead website and Lo and behold it was still for sale. So I'm hesitant to believe that there's been lots of incidents where the airlines have not let people wear the baby b'air. As we've seen on this thread, I'm not the only one who has successfully worn one and not been told not to.

[DissyLove]

I don't have anything against any restraint, I was just explaining what happened when I travelled with my baby. They told me airline regulations said I had to hold her, no restraints. I would suggest the OP call her airline to double check on their rules just to make sure.

[k_k_100]

The facts are that the FAA for take-off & landing does not allow Baby B’Air. It IS allowed during flight. The majority of injuries occur due to turbulence during flight. Many flight attendants will look the other way if you use one during take-off or landing - some will not. The Baby B'Air is effective for safety during turbulence - often it hits when you are not expecting it.

Most US Airlines offer 1/2-price seats for children under 2. Some discount carriers do not offer this. You also cannot get one if you are using air miles to travel.

Good luck on your trip. We had a couple of occasions when traveling when we used miles that we could just not afford a seat for dd (eg. - almost $3,000 for a seat on the same plane). We always tried to fly during off peak times when this arose. Out of over 20 flights we only had to hold her in our laps 2. We always brought her car seat - then gate checked it w/ her stroller if we had to.

I have a good friend who is a flight attendant. She always looked the other way w/ Baby B'Air - she felt it was better to have the baby attached to something rather then flying through the cabin. She always went out of her way to help parents find a seat for their baby. Unfortunately not all are like this. Go, have fun, and enjoy Disney! :earsgirl:

[tjmw2727]

so basically what some of you are saying is that it's better to hold your baby and not attach them to you so that if the plane crashes your baby can go flying out of your arms and have certain death? I never heard about the baby acting as an "air bag" thing before, but even if that's true, why would the airlines let you just "hold" them if that's the case? Pretty much if you hold them without a restriant system then they will definetly die if the plane crashes but you might survive? Sounds pretty crappy to me! On the other hand if you bring a car seat, what are the odds that the baby will actually stay in it during flight anyway? So you're right back to holding your baby without restraint again! That's why to me the baby b'air makes so much sense. And let's be real people, no I don't have statistics on this but I'm pretty sure that for the most part when planes crash there's very little chance for survival unlike when cars get into accidents. I hate to say this but i really think that the whole car seat on planes thing started because it became the politically correct thing to do.
Lst year I was on a similar thread to this, and I suggested the baby b'air and someone that was sooooo against it said that it was totally illegal and that one step ahead didn't sell it anymore, etc. I was like "oh my G_ _ ! i'm so sorry that I brought it up" and then I checked the one step ahead website and Lo and behold it was still for sale. So I'm hesitant to believe that there's been lots of incidents where the airlines have not let people wear the baby b'air. As we've seen on this thread, I'm not the only one who has successfully worn one and not been told not to.

Ok - I am not saying it is better to hold your baby, fwiw I am in favor of using a CSR for a baby and personally would not fly with a lap baby. However that is not the question the OP asked so I am trying to answer her question - what to do with a lap baby, hold baby on your lap!!

The FAA and American Academy of Pediatrics both recommend a CSR and neither approve of the use of the harness/vest type devices for aircraft travel. In fact the FAA does not allow them for take off or landing and most carriers don't allow them at all. Why do the airlines "let you" hold them, well my guess is $$ and statistics but I can't answer that.

Again this is not my opinion it is FAA regulations. I don't doubt you used one and I am sure you made the best decsion for your family based on the informaiton at the time. I am saying that I have personally seen the FA not allow a sling and also a BBA, October 04 and December 04. You may be hesitant to beleive me, that's ok, but I have seen it.

Check out any US carriers website on traveling with children and the wording is quite clear. I guess its up to the individual FA's as to the enforcement.

I posted the link in my eariler post along with a quote, every carrier has similar wording.

As for an emergency situation you will not be able to hold your baby but baby will be placed on the floor between your feet to prevent the baby becoming a projectile. DH was in such a situation when they could not verify the landing gear was operating properly. Luckily it was, but they had to prepare for an emergency landing. He said it was very scary, so scary that we never even considered not using the CSR with our kids. And yes they did stay in the carseat, they do in the car and the did in the air it was familiar and comfortable.

Why is the BBA still for sale? Honestly this baffles me, I can't undersand why they can claim what they claim. Perhaps they are ok for overseas flights. I know that if I bought one only to be denied its use by an FA I would be expecting a full refund.

TJ

[k_k_100]

:jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1: :jumping1:

:jumping1: I just became a Mouseketeer!!! :jumping1:

[DissyLove]

Does anyone think the airlines are going to require all infants to have their own seat in a few years, and will they require a car seat, as is law in our vehicles? Just wondering if that is coming soon....

[Mersmom98]

I flew with my dd when she was 8 months old and just held her. Your baby will be fine, and you can't compare driving in a car with millions of other people driving beside you (including 16 year olds!YIKES!!) and flying in an airplane with a highly trained pilot. Just make sure that you are well rested and relaxed for your children's sake and everything will be fine. Tense mothers = tense children. Hope you have a great trip! ;)

[Tara]

Again this is not my opinion it is FAA regulations. I don't doubt you used one and I am sure you made the best decsion for your family based on the informaiton at the time. I am saying that I have personally seen the FA not allow a sling and also a BBA, October 04 and December 04. You may be hesitant to beleive me, that's ok, but I have seen it.



While boarding when DS was very little, sometimes one of us would be wearing him in the Baby Bjorn while the other installed the car seat. We've been told a number of times just while boarding -- not any where near seated -- that DS could not remain in the Bjorn.

I've also heard FA tell other parents the same thing.

[dtsaos]

the baby bjorn is a totally different thing than the baby b'air, which is not at all designed like a baby carrier. you can see it at www.onestepahead.com

[tjmw2727]

the baby bjorn is a totally different thing than the baby b'air, which is not at all designed like a baby carrier. you can see it at www.onestepahead.com

I realize that and the BBA is specificly addressed in the US carriers list of prohibited devices:

From Delta.com:
Delta does not permit the following types of car seats:
booster seats - even if they bear labels indicating they meet US, UN, or foreign government standards.
vest and harness-type child restraint devices. Do not confuse these with approved child safety seats having a harness-type closure for securing the child in the seat.

Here is the link:
http://www.delta.com/travel/special_services/services_for_children/infant_seating/index.jsp

From the link you provided it now clearly states that this device is not approved for takeoff, taxi and landing:

Baby B'Air
The safe way for baby to fly. You'd never travel by car with an unsecured baby on your lap, but it's standard procedure on airplanes! Yet sudden turbulence can cause you to lose your grip on your child. The answer: Baby B'Air, the only product that secures baby to your lap belt. Exceeds FAA standards, yet the quilted plush cotton vest feels like clothing. FAA-approved for the cruise portion of your flight, where turbulence most often occurs. (Not approved for taxi, takeoff, and landing.) Fits in your diaper bag for carrying ease. Machine washable. Choose Infant (head circum. 10"-161/2"; generally 6 weeks-6-8 mos.) or Toddler (head circum. 16"-191/2"; generally 6-8 mos.-2 yrs.). Order in advance to assure delivery before your trip. Imported. ""end quote

IMHO, it's one thing to advocate a CSR its another to advocate a device that is not allowed on us carriers. Contrary to the above carriers do have the right to refuse its use in flight.

TJ

[dtsaos]

Okay, if you read it carefully this is what it says:

DELTA, does not permit the following types of car seats:
Booster seats
Vest and harness type restraint devices.

However it goes on to clarify,
the restraint must meet one of the following requirements to be approved:
If manufactured outside of the US: has the approval of a foreign government or was manufactured under the standards of the UN.

if you read the description on the Baby B'air, it does say it that is imported, suggesting that it would pass Delta's requirements anyway.

And by the way, I was referring to Tara when i was explaining the difference between the baby b'air and the baby bjorn.

I think the reviews on the one step ahead website are very informative as well.

[dtsaos]

by the way, there's a number of on- line stores that sell the baby b'air now, not just one step ahead.

[tjmw2727]

Yes, I read it clearly and the BBA is a VEST OR HARNESS TYPE RESTRAINT DEVICE.

Ok - last attempt to clarify on the BBA ad at right start, the link you provided, it clearly states that the device is not approved for taxi, takeoff and landing.

Lastly as I mentioned earlier I have personaly witnessed a parent denied use of the Baby B'Air. I know what it is and I know the difference between it and a snugli or sling.

TJ

[dtsaos]

if you go to www.babybungalow.com and search for the baby b'air, they have a section of F.A.Q. about the product and how they are trying to get it approved for take off and landing and they even discuss how some FA's don't understand/know what it is and therefore may ask you not to use it.

And the info you give seems to be specifically from Delta's site ONLY-that's only one airline.

Ad I'll say once again that I know you know the diff between a baby carrier and the baby b'air.

[tjmw2727]

Actually, re read the thread as I gave information from AA initally and followed up with Delta. The verbage is the same at Southwest, Jet Blue and various others. These are the carriers I frequently fly so I have the information readily available. Since you are so interested in disproving me then you can go ahead and do a search to find a carrier that allows the BBA.

I stand by my information and what I have actually witnessed. I would hate to see a mom rely on this product for its safety and convenience only to be denied its use.

TJ

[all4fun]

To the OP, I haven't seen this site posted yet, but since it's such a hotly debated topic I thought I would post the link to the FAA's site regarding using a device such as the Baby B'air. Here's the link: FAA "tips for parents using a CSR" (http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/phl/tipsfor.htm) It says:
Reminder
Use an approved CRS when traveling to and from the airport by automobile. Booster seats and harness vests do not provide adequate protection in an aircraft, but they do enhance safety in automobiles. Many airlines do not allow the use of booster seats on their flights. These devices may be checked as baggage. In the United States, supplemental lap restraints, belly belts, are banned from use in automobiles and aircraft.


I would just hate for someone to spend money on something and then not be able to use it.

hth!

[dtsaos]

Okay to those of you so opossed to using the baby b'air, what do you think should happen when a mother wants/needs to breast feed her baby in flight? Don't you think it's safer for the baby to at least be attached to the mother's lap belt rather than be able to just fly out of her arms due to turbulance or worse? Perhaps the solution should be a combo of car seats and the baby b'air? And please don't say that the mom should pump out milk ahead of time because not everyone can do that and there's no way that a very young infant won't need to be held, nursed, feed, changed etc for a very long period of time. On a short flight you might be able to get away with it, but on longer ones, I don't see how. tjmw2727, I guess your babies are the exception and never act up or need to get out of their car seats for any reason. And if you look at the FAQ's on the baby bungalow site I gave, it says that most (90%) risk for the baby is during flight time due to turbulance, NOT during taxi, take off and landing.
And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

[tjmw2727]

Okay to those of you so opossed to using the baby b'air, what do you think should happen when a mother wants/needs to breast feed her baby in flight? Don't you think it's safer for the baby to at least be attached to the mother's lap belt rather than be able to just fly out of her arms due to turbulance or worse? Perhaps the solution should be a combo of car seats and the baby b'air? And please don't say that the mom should pump out milk ahead of time because not everyone can do that and there's no way that a very young infant won't need to be held, nursed, feed, changed etc for a very long period of time. On a short flight you might be able to get away with it, but on longer ones, I don't see how. tjmw2727, I guess your babies are the exception and never act up or need to get out of their car seats for any reason. And if you look at the FAQ's on the baby bungalow site I gave, it says that most (90%) risk for the baby is during flight time due to turbulance, NOT during taxi, take off and landing.
And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

NICE - I never mentioned my kids or their behavoir and I don't appreciate the slam at all.

As far as your continuous questions, it dosen't matter what I think!! But I do have the right to express my opinions. The FAA, AAP and most major carriers don't think it is safe to use BBAir. Most major airlines have gone so far as to not allow them at all and all don't allow them during take off or landing, simple as that.

It is not me that is opposed to the product but the airlines, FAA and American Academy of Pediatrics.

Obviously the websites and stores that sell this product are interested in promoting it and getting it approved but for now it is not approved.

TJ

[dtsaos]

Okay, sorry tjmw, someone on here said that their kids were fine in the car seats/used to it just like when they drive etc. I thought it was you.

And anyway, I was curious about your opinion about when a baby needs to be held, fed, etc and since you're so involved in this overall discussion I would think you would have an opinion about that.

[dtsaos]

sometimes common sense and being a good parent mean going against certain "regulations" in my opinion. (And I'm not saying anyone here is not a good parent)

[all4fun]

And all4fun, it's amazing that so many web sites sell the baby b'air and so many people have used it successfully and not wasted their money isn't it? But it's nice of you to be so concerned about somebody else wasting their money.

I'm a little uncertain why you are slamming me. All I did was provide information from FAA's website. And yes, I do hate to see people waste their money. The OP came here asking a question and I tried to answer it with the most factual response I could. I wasn't intending to feed the debate. I can't answer your question anyway. I mean that's kind of like asking why do stores still sell cigarettes, when we know they're bad for our health, isn't it?

[ducklite]

I saw a mother trying to use a Baby B'air two nights ago on a US Aisrways flight, and was told she couldn't during take off and landing. She tried to tell the FA that the manufacturer's info said it was approved, and the FA told her not during takeoff and landing. The senior FA ended up getting involved, and bottom line, the mother wasn't allowed to use it during take off and landing.

And to reiterate, during an emergency situation, the child goes on the floor. Period. The reason behind this is that there's far less chance of the child becoming a projectile and injuring itself or other passengers, as the seats and people's legs act as a barrier. Of course it didn't help the lap baby found in the overhead bin after the Sioux City crash...

Anne

[hokiefan33]

:flower: I know many people have very strong feelings on the car seat in an airplane question, but we have been flying from PA to Disney(and all over the usa) since my oldest was 10 months old(she is now 12) and I never used a car seat. We now fly with twins and both my husband and I hold one. I have never had any trouble holding a baby(maybe I'm lucky). And yes my 5 kids are the most precious thing in the world to me, but let's face it, if the plane goes down your carseat isn't going to help. We have hit some terrible turbulance and I feel better holding my babies. I travel as light as possible, but just relax you will be fine. Don't let anyone tell you that you should not take a vacation just because it isn't their way of taking one.

Amen. Absolutely right.

[PrincessasMommy]

O.k. as the original poster can I stop this now? Please!

I recently joined this forum for helpful advice when planning out Disney portion of our very first vacation and I am sorry I started a debate.

My intention was to figure out the safest way for my child to fly (OUTSIDE OF A CARSEAT) as I worded the question in the beginning as ....

"For those who have not purchased a seat for their babies....." (I was not looking for a bashing here)

I am aware that a child's safest place is the car seat, but to be quite honest, it is a 3 hour flight and I plan on feeding the baby as we ascend and descend for her ears anyhow, so is it worth is to pay for a seat we won't use? My agent also tells me that they will probably have empty seats available as we are travelling at odd times and that no device is allowed to strap baby to me - kills those Baby B'Air discussions.

For the record, with 3 children sleep is in high demand, but last night I researched for hours and hours, until 3 AM (I wake up at 6 - so if this isn't well articulated I apologize) but the statistics are highly in the lap baby's favour......3 babies have died (and I am sure their parents cry nights for not buying carseats - I know) but it has been over a 23 year period on international flights.

I thank you all for your input and contributions to this topic. I am now quite aware of FAA regulations, Europe's arguments to them (only in Europe do they allow baby strap attachments), Canada's policies, why carseats aren't mandatory to begin with, and many other statistics on air travel.

I believe arguments for both sides are valid and my husband and I will be very informed when we make our decision on how to travel with our child.





Note: The lap baby found in the overhead bin after the Sioux City crash was found alive and that was the last serious event in 1989.

[ryan840]

I don't know if anyone had mentioned this because I didn't have time to read all 4 pages, but I would be very uncomfortable with my child attached to me or the seatbelt. We are flying with him in May, and he will sit on our laps, unsecured by anything but our arms. My husband pointed out that anything strong enough to keep him in place would be strong enough to hurt him internally, and could even tear into him if the force was strong enough. I think that is why snugli, slings and other restraints are not allowed. The forces on a plane are very strong and those things could easily cause damage. If your arms break their hold, chances are your child will get a bump or bruise, or maybe something more serious, but probably not as serious as a restraint would cause. It's a tough decision that only you can make, but keep in mind that there is a reason why your child is allowed to sit on your lap on a plane- they have done many tests.

[tjmw2727]

Okay, sorry tjmw, someone on here said that their kids were fine in the car seats/used to it just like when they drive etc. I thought it was you.

And anyway, I was curious about your opinion about when a baby needs to be held, fed, etc and since you're so involved in this overall discussion I would think you would have an opinion about that.

I do have an opinion but no longer feel that you are truly interested in it - IMHO I think you just want to argue and I won't continue.

Perhaps if you would like to debate the issue the debate or community board would be a great place to start a new thread??

The OP has her answers and seems to have made a very informed decision, one that is right for her and her family. I respect that decsion and her right to make it. My only reason for posting this far was for imparting information.

To the OP ~ great follow up post, thanks for keeping us up to date.
I hope everyone has safe and happy travels and best wishes for the ill family member.

TJ

[dtsaos]

Princessasmommy

It certainly wasn't my intention or anyone else's on here I'm sure to add more stress to your life! I guess that a lot of people have very strong opinions on this subject and until the airlines make and inforce a specific decision, there always will be.

I respect anyone's decision to do what they feel is in their babies best interest. If I had to chose between a car seat or holding with out a restraint system, I would chose to hold my infant for the same reasons that rgribik pointed out. The baby b'air just made me feel a little better. Anyway it's a very personal decision and I wasn't trying to pressure you. Good luck and have a great trip.

TJ, i really don't feel like continuing this debate on the community boards, if you'd like to I'm sure you'll have lots of responses.

[lclark0621]

Seriously! Can't we just stop?!?!

Look, no matter what people "say" or "push" or "scream" or whatever, until the FAA requires a carseat for ALL children under a certian age, people WILL bring kids under 2 as lap children.

You people HAVE TO STOP!

The Baby B'Air may not be approved or allowed for take offs & landings. BUT IT IS allowed during the flight time. So ENOUGH!

I personally always buy the extra seat for my DS unless we are in first class, which frankly we usually are. And once he turns to, we will buy him a seat in first class.

But you know where he spends most of the flight? ON MY LAP. Why? Because he and I are playing, he is sleeping my my arms, he wants to stretch, whatever.

And another thing, it is really NON of your business if my son is in my arms or in a carseat.

You can preach & throw statistcs all you want. But people are going to bring kids on planes as lap children, until the FAA does not allow it any longer.

And I think they will allow it as long as airlines charge the prices they do for tickets. Our flights to Europe a few months ago were $13,000 a peice. Yes $13,000. Sure we flew first class. But I was not spening that money for my son to sit on my lap, & would have even if he had his own seat.

We used the Baby B'Air. It worked WONDERFULLY. DS & I both got to get some good sleep on the 9 hour flight. And I knew he was secured to me.

No matter how many times you scream "a child needs to be on the floor in an emergency", there is NO WAY most mothers are going to think "Well I will just put my kid on the floor.". Most mothers (like me) are going to hold onto that kid for dear life. And yes I can hold onto my son in turbulance. I have done it before.

Can't we just let this conversation end?

Frankly it is just getting nastier and nastier. Enough is enough already.

[the kabuki]

Not adding to the debate but ...

$13,000 FOR AN AIRLINE TICKET?????
:faint: :faint:

All I can say is WOW!! Didn't even know you could spend that much for one ticket.
Guess I should stop complaining when I have to pay over $200 each for tixs to Florida.

[safetymom]

I doubt any parent can hold on to their child in serious turbulance. If you think that you are mistaken.

I was involved in occupant safety for many years and trust me I heard all the stories about how strong parents were, or the baby had very strong muscles.

The reason you don't see a lot being done about it is money. Getting money to promote safety is hard to come by.

I would ask parents what they would tell their child if they were ever injured because the parent didn't take the time to learn what would keep their child safe?

[all4fun]

I sure hope we didn't scare Pincessasmommy away.
:hug:

[SoCalKDG]

So what do you do with your kid on the Disney Bus?

[NotUrsula]

The FAA rules re: use of child restraints on US-based commercial carrier aircraft are part of the Code of Federal Regulations, 14CFR121.311. Read them for yourselves: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=453b76163f2e3e7daf654a2f656e6e8f&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.4.19.11.10.9&idno=14
BTW, Pay very close attention to the part that notes when the airline is or is not allowed to refuse the use of a restraint.

Now then, a word about common sense counting for more than "regulations", or what we might call the Momma Bear response. While that might be valid in just about any other situation, I am telling you now that if the urge to argue about the rules or ignore the rules strikes you while on a commercial aircraft, you need to firmly squelch it. I fly a lot, and I promise you that in the post-9/11 world, if you go toe-to-toe with a flight attendant, you WILL lose. At best you will be humiliated in public, and at worst you will find yourself shackled to your seat, with cops and an arrest warrant waiting for the plane to land.

[Pinnie]

AMEN, NotUrsula!!!!

ITA!

pinnie

[tjmw2727]

So what do you do with your kid on the Disney Bus?

OT and IMHO not relevant to the thread, If you truly want feedback on this subject perhaps you would be interested in starting your own thread.

TJ

[PrincessasMommy]

LOL..... :rotfl: .....I don't scare that easily but thanks for caring!


For those of you that didn't catch it the first time........


O.k. as the original poster can I stop this now? Please!

I recently joined this forum for helpful advice when planning out Disney portion of our very first vacation and I am sorry I started a debate.

My intention was to figure out the safest way for my child to fly (OUTSIDE OF A CARSEAT) as I worded the question in the beginning as ....

"For those who have not purchased a seat for their babies....." (I was not looking for a bashing here)

I am aware that a child's safest place is the car seat, but to be quite honest, it is a 3 hour flight and I plan on feeding the baby as we ascend and descend for her ears anyhow, so is it worth is to pay for a seat we won't use? My agent also tells me that they will probably have empty seats available as we are travelling at odd times and that no device is allowed to strap baby to me - kills those Baby B'Air discussions.

For the record, with 3 children sleep is in high demand, but last night I researched for hours and hours, until 3 AM (I wake up at 6 - so if this isn't well articulated I apologize) but the statistics are highly in the lap baby's favour......3 babies have died (and I am sure their parents cry nights for not buying carseats - I know) but it has been over a 23 year period on international flights.

I thank you all for your input and contributions to this topic. I am now quite aware of FAA regulations, Europe's arguments to them (only in Europe do they allow baby strap attachments), Canada's policies, why carseats aren't mandatory to begin with, and many other statistics on air travel.

I believe arguments for both sides are valid and my husband and I will be very informed when we make our decision on how to travel with our child.

[tjmw2727]

Hey Louise,
If you want to close the thread then contact a moderator, otherwise it may live a life all it's own ~

If not, since you have the info you need then just take a break and go on with the boards and invest in other threads. Have a wonderful vacation.

TJ

[MickeyGirl555]

Seriously! Can't we just stop?!?!

Look, no matter what people "say" or "push" or "scream" or whatever, until the FAA requires a carseat for ALL children under a certian age, people WILL bring kids under 2 as lap children.

You people HAVE TO STOP!

The Baby B'Air may not be approved or allowed for take offs & landings. BUT IT IS allowed during the flight time. So ENOUGH!

I personally always buy the extra seat for my DS unless we are in first class, which frankly we usually are. And once he turns to, we will buy him a seat in first class.

But you know where he spends most of the flight? ON MY LAP. Why? Because he and I are playing, he is sleeping my my arms, he wants to stretch, whatever.

And another thing, it is really NON of your business if my son is in my arms or in a carseat.

You can preach & throw statistcs all you want. But people are going to bring kids on planes as lap children, until the FAA does not allow it any longer.

And I think they will allow it as long as airlines charge the prices they do for tickets. Our flights to Europe a few months ago were $13,000 a peice. Yes $13,000. Sure we flew first class. But I was not spening that money for my son to sit on my lap, & would have even if he had his own seat.

We used the Baby B'Air. It worked WONDERFULLY. DS & I both got to get some good sleep on the 9 hour flight. And I knew he was secured to me.

No matter how many times you scream "a child needs to be on the floor in an emergency", there is NO WAY most mothers are going to think "Well I will just put my kid on the floor.". Most mothers (like me) are going to hold onto that kid for dear life. And yes I can hold onto my son in turbulance. I have done it before.

Can't we just let this conversation end?

Frankly it is just getting nastier and nastier. Enough is enough already.


I'm sorry but I think somebody just wants to brag about how they always sit in first class and pay 13,000 for plane tickets. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. However, there really is no good reason to talk about how much money you spend on airline tickets. :rolleyes2. My kids have alwasy been pretty good when on a plane, they usually sat in there carseats. However, when they did cry I took them out and held them, and everything worked out fine.

[PrincessasMommy]

;) I have to admit I think in my short time here I have become an addict to this board! ;) So try as I might I can't go away.......

I think it's a great topic to debate and I like to debate but I just wouldn't want to get in trouble for starting something, I haven't been around here long enough to know what is and isn't permitted. Some boards are very strict about these things....btw, is there a debate board? Someone mentioned it but I can't find it, I had more to add to this conversation after talking to my travel agent and my airline today but didn't want to fuel the fire on the "family" board. Just trying to be a polite newcomer until I familiarize myself with the rules here....


Hey Louise,
If you want to close the thread then contact a moderator, otherwise it may live a life all it's own ~

If not, since you have the info you need then just take a break and go on with the boards and invest in other threads. Have a wonderful vacation.

TJ

[safetymom]

No debate board here on the DIS. There are just certain topics that seem to get everyone posting.

[lclark0621]

I'm sorry but I think somebody just wants to brag about how they always sit in first class and pay 13,000 for plane tickets. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. However, there really is no good reason to talk about how much money you spend on airline tickets. :rolleyes2. My kids have alwasy been pretty good when on a plane, they usually sat in there carseats. However, when they did cry I took them out and held them, and everything worked out fine.

Well so sorry you feel this way.

I guess I will just take my first class butt to another board.

I was making a point but all you saw was that I fly first & you dont.

[Stitch Inside]

All I read was Baby on Plane and had this vision of one of those Yellow signs stuck in one of the windows of a 747. pirate:

[MickeyGirl555]

I was making a point but all you saw was that I fly first & you dont. :snooty: :worship: No I don't fly first, but I fly jet blue, tv's with cable at every seat. :cool1: :cool1: Do you have that?

[Kasmir]

I'm just curious... Why do some people on this post feel the need to make such personal belittling attacks? How EXACTLY do these posts offend you so? If you have nothing to offer other than hateful sarcastic comments, why don't you just keep shopping until you can offer something constructive in another thread?

Geez!

[annabelle]

Really, enough already.

Let it drop.

The OP has made her decision.

Let it go.

Take a hot bath.

Do something else other than attack each other.

Please?? :worship:

[SoCalKDG]

OT and IMHO not relevant to the thread, If you truly want feedback on this subject perhaps you would be interested in starting your own thread.TJI disagree. The topic is how safe is it to have a child under two on a plane without a car seat. Is it safer than no car seat on a bus, is it safer than driving 40 miles a day with your child in the car seat? This is the info that is really needed, and no one has yet to supply.


Example:

If a 1 year old has a 1 in 75,000 chance of being hurt without a carseat while flying and this compares to a 1 in 50,000 chance of being hurt while sitting in a car seat while driving, then we could make a statistical judgement and say, yes, it is safe.

[grlpwrd]

Seriously! Can't we just stop?!?!

Look, no matter what people "say" or "push" or "scream" or whatever, until the FAA requires a carseat for ALL children under a certian age, people WILL bring kids under 2 as lap children.

You people HAVE TO STOP!

The Baby B'Air may not be approved or allowed for take offs & landings. BUT IT IS allowed during the flight time. So ENOUGH!

I personally always buy the extra seat for my DS unless we are in first class, which frankly we usually are. And once he turns to, we will buy him a seat in first class.

But you know where he spends most of the flight? ON MY LAP. Why? Because he and I are playing, he is sleeping my my arms, he wants to stretch, whatever.

And another thing, it is really NON of your business if my son is in my arms or in a carseat.

You can preach & throw statistcs all you want. But people are going to bring kids on planes as lap children, until the FAA does not allow it any longer.

And I think they will allow it as long as airlines charge the prices they do for tickets. Our flights to Europe a few months ago were $13,000 a peice. Yes $13,000. Sure we flew first class. But I was not spening that money for my son to sit on my lap, & would have even if he had his own seat.

We used the Baby B'Air. It worked WONDERFULLY. DS & I both got to get some good sleep on the 9 hour flight. And I knew he was secured to me.

No matter how many times you scream "a child needs to be on the floor in an emergency", there is NO WAY most mothers are going to think "Well I will just put my kid on the floor.". Most mothers (like me) are going to hold onto that kid for dear life. And yes I can hold onto my son in turbulance. I have done it before.

Can't we just let this conversation end?

Frankly it is just getting nastier and nastier. Enough is enough already.

It doesn't matter what class of seats you're sitting in because the danger is still there regardless. If a child is without a carseat or other restraint, that is.

When you say that you can hold your son during turbulence... well, that's probably minor turbulence.

In any case - be informed and be safe.

[BethR]

Since we no longer have a Debate Board to move this thread to, and since debates are not appropriate on the Family Board (or most ANY board), this thread will be closed.

I think that Kasir has enough information to give her an informed decision...