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3DisneyNUTS
02-20-2005, 07:24 PM
Well unfortunately what others have worried about I have seen 4 times this past week and we were only at SSR for 6 days. The bus hoppers are being told to take the SSR buses as an easy way to get to DTD. These are not even WDW resort guests!

The first instance was an elderly couple I overheard talking about not wanting to pay the $8 parking fee...Another SSr resort guest was giving them directions to get back to the west side where they were parked. It wound up to be a huge hassle for this couple late at night and I am sure this discouraged them from trying to save the $8 next time.

Second was a family who were talking about staying at the Wydham. They were coming back from Blizzard Beach.

Third was a family again coming back from Magic Kingdom. They were walking around the bus stop in a daze after exiting the bus mumbling to each other if this was the right stop. They were not sure of where to go to get to DTD. Call me evil but there was no way in heck I was going to make their lives (being they are abusing the bus system) easier so we walked right by them. They were also trying to get back the Hilton.

Last was family from hell. They had a ton of junk with them and the mother was loud and obnoxious. This was the most blatant abuse of the bus yet. When the bus stopped to unload she was yelling at the bus driver about going to the Hilton. He told her to get off there. She was saying something about a shuttle but either the bus driver did not understand her or just wanted her off the bus. We were not even on that bus but waiting at the stop to go to Epcot. She was yelling so loudly at the bus driver it carried out of the bus into the air to everyone waiting. She proceeds to get off with her family of 6 and they walk to the water from the Congress park bus stop. About 5 minutes later we hear her yelling at her husband about not being able to find the shuttle (((???))) She then comes over to another guest waiting for the bus (God I wish she came up to me) and starts asking how to get to DTD or the shuttle to the Hilton? Well the person explains that DTD is a five minute walk and she would have to go that way. There are no shuttles to the Hilton. She is now screaming at her husband about how the bus driver gave them the wrong information. She also was yelling that she couldn't walk since she has a bad back. She was complaining and moaning the entire time she was there and it was getting really grating especially since she did not belong there. She was blatantly abusing the bus system and felt entitled to complain about it too no less! So she was then yelling to her husband to call a cab! Then another guest tells her a DTD bus will be there within 20 minutes since she just missed it (I was screaming in my head 'no don't encourage her!!")

Fortunately for us the Epcot bus came and spared us from the misery of her (so I don't have a conclusion) but I am now extremely worried about 3 things.
#1 are Disney Cast members telling people to use the SSR bus as an easy way to DTD
#2 Do you think the DTD area resorts are telling their guests to do that (it would save them on their transportation costs for people to abuse the WDW transportation.
#3 My dues are paying for people like this to travel for free!!!!


I want to write a letter and explain my concerns and also report this. I mean if I saw it 4 times in 6 days how many other times has it happened where the people are just being quiet?
Who can I write to or call about this?

Disney Doll
02-20-2005, 07:35 PM
So folks are parking at SSR to get to DD? Is there a aprking fee at DD? I have never paid one.

carol1231
02-20-2005, 07:39 PM
The way I understand it, people are parking at DTD to go to the parks and save the parking fee at the parks, so they board the bus at DTD and proceed to the parks. Then when returning, they are taking the bus to SSR trying to get back to DTD where their cars are parked.

Is this correct? :confused3

3DisneyNUTS
02-20-2005, 07:41 PM
The way I understand it, people are parking at DTD to go to the parks and save the parking fee at the parks, so they board the bus at DTD and proceed to the parks. Then when returning, they are taking the bus to SSR trying to get back to DTD where their cars are parked.

Is this correct? :confused3

Yes I am sorry. People are parking at DTD. SSR is gated ( as all the Disney resorts are) so no one can just come in and park.

CDSTapisRouge
02-20-2005, 07:42 PM
So folks are parking at SSR to get to DD? Is there a aprking fee at DD? I have never paid one.

No, I think what the poster is saying is they are parking at DTD to avoid the parking fees for the theme parks and using the SSR bus for transportation to and from as there is not a direct DTD bus from the theme parks... and the others seemed to be using the SSR bus as it was the closest actual Disney bus to the Hotel Plaza Blvd resorts, as the Disney buses are more accessible (and frequent) than the Hotel Plaza buses when you are leaving the some of the parks... That is the way I read the post anyway...

jkovick
02-20-2005, 07:50 PM
When we were at MK in January there was a CM standing in front of the bus stations explaining to a family that the quickest wat to get to DD was to take the SSR bus.

3DisneyNUTS
02-20-2005, 07:53 PM
When we were at MK in January there was a CM standing in front of the bus stations explaining to a family that the quickest wat to get to DD was to take the SSR bus.
This is absurd!!! What the heck is going on? Why would they encourage this?

3DisneyNUTS
02-20-2005, 07:54 PM
This is absurd!!! What the heck is going on? Why would they encourage this?
I could see if they are DVC resort guests but if not they should not be on the buses we pay dues for!

Deemarch
02-20-2005, 07:58 PM
No wonder you can't get a parking space at DD!!! It's a mess over there...This may explain it.

Oh well, at least it's not easy for people to do, so they won't encourage others. The hardest place to get to by WDW bus tranportation is DD!!! IMO

disworldnum1
02-20-2005, 07:59 PM
While staying at the BWV we were talking to a couple coming back from the MK and they explained to me how they park at the BW and go to mgm or epoct but this was the first time they had used the bus to MK and were dissapointed how long it was taking to get back.I cant hold my tongue and explained to them that if only the people who were supposed to be on the bus were there that i could have had a seat rather then stand the whole way back.The husband told me he thought the buses were for anyone visiting Disney and not just the resort people.I really don't remember seeing any signs at bus stops about who is entitled to use them,maybe I'm just not paying any attention.But maybe if you had to show your room key to get on this would be eliminated.

RichieGraciemom
02-20-2005, 08:02 PM
I am new to Dvc and I was wondering is their a contact person we could complain to who will represent us to disney. Is their a board that does represent the vacation club with concerns of it's members? If not is their an address we could all right to and bombard disney transportation with complaint letters.

CDSTapisRouge
02-20-2005, 08:06 PM
In response to Jkovick's comment "When we were at MK in January there was a CM standing in front of the bus stations explaining to a family that the quickest wat to get to DD was to take the SSR bus." and 3DisneyNuts response "This is absurd!!! What the heck is going on? Why would they encourage this?"

I understand what you are saying and I TOTALLY agree with it (I actually have a conversation with a security guard the other day asking them why they check ID's when you "drive" into any property...not just DVC...if you could walk onto any Disney bus without question and be brought in...he didn't have an answer...) BUT I am going to play devils advocate on this one... Again I agree with you but here is the Disney logic. They do not provide direct transportation from the theme parks to Downtown Disney, nor do they provide transportation from one hotel to another hotel. So the only way to get to these places would be to take a bus from point A to point B and transfer to get to Point C. The fastest way to get to Downtown Disney from MK using Disney transportation would be to take the SSR bus...Although I don't think most CM's remember that SSR is open as most CM's will tell guests to take the Caribbean Beach Bus and transfer to the Downtown Disney Bus from CBR.

littlestar
02-20-2005, 08:12 PM
Didn't the old park hopper passes have some language that you are allowed to use Disney transporation for free? Maybe that is why a castmember would tell them it's okay to use a resort bus???

WOW
02-20-2005, 08:15 PM
In all my years I have never seen any bus driver ask if you have a resort card in order to board the bus. They say a perk of staying on property is having free bus transportation, but I think non resort guests have been using the busses for years.... :rolleyes:

eileenfk
02-20-2005, 08:16 PM
Perhaps the person, who wanted a shuttle to the Hilton, really did want the shuttle to the Hilton, and was given poor instructions, and ended up on an SSR bus. The Hilton does claim to offer transportation to WDW, and I am pretty certain that they have a shuttle of some sort.

Perhaps the WDW bus driver, assuming the person was trying to get to DTD, made her think that the shuttle to SSR was really the way to catch the Shuttle to the Hilton.

Is the use of the WDW transportation system an exclusive right of those staying on property.
I am pretty certain that my park hopper ticket stated something about use of the transportation system.
Is there a rule about using buses from a specific resort, which state one has to be staying at that resort or even on property?

Is there a specific rule, stating that one can only park at DTD while in DTD?
Is this clearly posted in the parking lot. That will stop some people.
Are there signs indicating that improperly parked vehicles will be towed? This stops another group of people, that are not stopped just by something being against the rules.
(I have never parked there, so I don't know how it is labled).

When I was staying at SSR there were people parking at DownTown Disney and using the SSR buses and SSR as a transfer point.
I didn't mind them doing this. This would probably irritate me more if I were a DTD shopper that could not find a place to park, then as someone staying at SSR using the busses.

Personally, I think that people should be encouraged to tap into mass transit systems as much as reasonable. The more people riding, the more busses (meaning more frequent busses). The more people riding the higher probability for future improvements (such as high speed light rail).


- Eileen

Cora
02-20-2005, 08:18 PM
Just an FYI regarding the people staying at the Hilton at Downtown Disney. That hotel is an OFFICIAL Walt Disney World Hotel. Here is a quote from their website:
"An "official" hotel of WALT DISNEY WORLD®, make the most of your visit by taking advantage of the exclusive NEW Extra Magic Hours benefit. Each day one of the Theme Parks is open an hour early or stays open up to three extra hours in the evening providing Hilton guests the opportunity to enjoy exclusive access to some of the most popular attractions at an easy, relaxed pace!

You'll enjoy exceptional facilities at our Four Star, Four Diamond resort. We're steps away from Downtown Disney, home of the Disney Marketplace, Pleasure Island, and Disney's West Side. What's more, free transportation to WALT DISNEY WORLD Theme Parks is provided for all our guests. "

Although, these people may have been rude, they can ride the transportation. Also, WDW transportation is included in your ticket price after you've paid for parking (unless you are staying in the DTD area and are able to walk over and grab the bus).

TDC Nala
02-20-2005, 08:24 PM
I was under the impression that anyone visiting WDW could use the transportation. I've never seen anyone check to see that only resort guests were using it, or only DVC members were using transportation to the DVC resorts (which wouldn't work anyway, because people who are not DVC members often stay at DVC resorts. BWV, BCV and WVL are also part of general resorts).

Disney stopped having direct buses from the parks to DTD to discourage people from dodging the parking fee by parking at DTD and taking the bus, but for those who don't mind wasting a lot of time transfering buses, it's not going to make a lot of difference.

HumphreytheBear
02-20-2005, 08:29 PM
What's more, free transportation to WALT DISNEY WORLD Theme Parks is provided for all our guests.[/B] "


Just to clarify... I think that in the Hilton situation it was more what Eileen stated, they probably were just given mis information as to which bus they were to have been on... The Hilton has it's own direct bus that would not require the guest to walk down the block, across the street and through another hotel to catch a bus...it picks up at the Hilton front entrance. The Hilton pays Disney additional fees in order to be included in the EMH for it's guests it is not a "Disney hotel" but does have the perks. Their bus is one of the DTD Hotel Plaza Blvd buses and does not come directly to the front of MK (it goes to the transportation and ticket center) which also may have been why the guest was on the SSR bus, convience of front of the park pick up.

But either way, anyone can use the Disney buses. They do not check the ID's and are there for the transportation of all guests. It is frustrating when they are full and it is people that are not staying at that resort, but sometimes that is the only transportation provided for them. The Disney buses are not a DVC perk, they are for all guests of property.

TIdoublegaER
02-20-2005, 08:30 PM
The easiset solution of all is to charge $8 to park at BW & DTD and be able to get free parking with a purchase of a certain $$ amount at any of the shops in those areas - or if you are an onsite guest. That would eliminate most of the abuse in both of these areas. I understand why people park at BW to go to MGM or Epcot because it is so close, but for the life of me, I can't imagine being so frugal as to park at DTD to avoid paying to park at the theme park. That just seems like a royal pain in the rear, especially since it is such a hassle just to get from a resort to DTD.

iluvdisney
02-20-2005, 08:56 PM
This should be an easy fix for WDW - at DL they allow parking at their DTD for 3 hrs free - 2 hrs more if you get the pass validated - their parking lots are like ones at an airport where you take a ticket and pass thru a gate with a time stamp on the ticket. That would fix abusers of the parking situation, IMHO.

Cora
02-20-2005, 08:59 PM
This should be an easy fix for WDW - at DL they allow parking at their DTD for 3 hrs free - 2 hrs more if you get the pass validated - their parking lots are like ones at an airport where you take a ticket and pass thru a gate with a time stamp on the ticket. That would fix abusers of the parking situation, IMHO.


I don't think this would work. Typically we'll head to DTD, walk around, eat, head to Disney Quest (spend at least a couple hours), maybe eat again and then return to Disney Quest or maybe go to a movie. At times we've been at DTD more than 6 hours...

CarolA
02-20-2005, 09:07 PM
For the family who parked at the BW... I KNOW there is a sign there stating they can't provide parking for the parks... So the "didn't" know was more either "can't Read" or chose not to know.

Now I will complain to DVC if I cant' get on the bus due to people going to DTD. Espeically since my dues are paying for it so if I was the OP I would write a letter.

lovwdwalot
02-20-2005, 09:14 PM
The easiset solution of all is to charge $8 to park at BW & DTD and be able to get free parking with a purchase of a certain $$ amount at any of the shops in those areas - or if you are an onsite guest. That would eliminate most of the abuse in both of these areas. I understand why people park at BW to go to MGM or Epcot because it is so close, but for the life of me, I can't imagine being so frugal as to park at DTD to avoid paying to park at the theme park. That just seems like a royal pain in the rear, especially since it is such a hassle just to get from a resort to DTD.

Some people will do anything to save a dollar or two. My wifes friend was telling us a story about how when they were kids her dad took the family to WDW, to save money he had her and her brother save thiers cups that had soda in them so that if they got thirsty they could use the cups to fill with water for the rest of their day at the parks. :earboy2:

manning
02-20-2005, 09:17 PM
Ah the good old days when you had to show a hotel ID to ride. Here's a solution if Disney wants to use it. Speed Pass. This is what Mobile oil uses or did use to pay for gas. You waved it in front of a scanner and you paid for your gas. This is in addition to using a credit card.

Add a dollar or two to the room, install the reader on the buses and issue speed passes to all the guest. It could be designed so the speed passes can be activated again when you return for another stay.

At least this should be done for DVC routes since we pay for transportation with our dues.

mbb
02-20-2005, 09:24 PM
Didn't the old park hopper passes have some language that you are allowed to use Disney transporation for free? Maybe that is why a castmember would tell them it's okay to use a resort bus???

Yep, a valid PHP gets you free transportation on the WDW system.

:sunny:

Deb & Bill
02-20-2005, 09:25 PM
They eliminated the direct buses from the parks to DTD because so many people were using them to avoid paying for parking at the theme park and parking at DTD. What they have done is created the same situation for guests by directing them to the SSR bus to return to DTD, so they don't have to go to another resort and catch that bus to DTD.

BCV23
02-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Another attempt at being a Devil's Advocate:

Since SSR is still far from being finished perhaps there are not enough resort guests to fill the buses and justify running them very often. Shuttling other guests as well may enable those buses to run more frequently.

Now if SSR guests are finding the buses crowded or full, then forget my argument!

Once the resort is built up more it will be interesting to see if CMs are still giving that advice.

ErinC
02-20-2005, 10:44 PM
We saw this happen many times the week of Feb.6th - 13th. I even heard many Bus drivers telling guests to use the SSR busses to get to DD. I'd say 1/3 of the people that we shared SSR busses with in the evening hours were not SSR guests. DH and I complained to our DVC guide about it during a brief meeting that we had with him. I think that I'm also going to drop a line to someone at DVC via email. Fine if Disney wants to use CBR or other Disney resorts as an exchange place, but if busses at SSR are paid for strictly by SSR DVC members than I think DVC needs to say something about this. It's not fair for SSR members to pay for other Disney guests transportation cost. As SSR grows this is going to be a real nightmare! JMHO

princessgirl2238
02-20-2005, 10:53 PM
What happens with people going from the parks to DTD is that there is no direct bus to DTD unless the bus is coming from a resort. So the people who don't stay at disney want to go to DTD, but they don't want to use their car, are told by cast members that to get their they need to hop on a resort bus (usually telling them that POR/POFQ, OKW, and now SSR are the closest places to catch a DTD bus, so take the resort bus there). As an ex-cast member, we were always told to give info like that because when someone pays for parking at a park for the day, they are also paying to use the bus transportation system (just like if they were to hop from one park to another or to a water park). So technically the people weren't doing anything wrong besides being rude (unless they were parking a DTD and riding the buses over to the parks to get out of paying cause then they aren't paying to use any of the transportation). I know it sucks, but that is just the way disney has it set up (I hate it and it's been this way for the past 3 years).

Ashley
21 days until springbreak at BCV or OKW (hopefully BCV as long as the wait list goes through) :cheer2:
Fall 03- College Program Cast member :wizard:
August 03- POR :mickeybar
April 02- CSR :flower:
August 02- CSR princess:
August 98- off properity :earsgirl:

tomerin
02-20-2005, 11:27 PM
my question is if we as dcv members are subsidisng the SSR buses with our dues shouldnt they be exclusive for the people who pay for them..the dvc members.

if not then everyone has a right to use the transportation as needed

JudithM
02-20-2005, 11:39 PM
Carli D'Agostino is the DVC Member Satisfaction Manager. She can be reached by email at members@disneyvactionclub.com (subject: Attn: Carli D'Agostino) or write to Disney Vacation Club, Attn: Carli D'Agostino, 200 Celebration Place, Celebration, FL 34747.

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 12:46 AM
In all my years I have never seen any bus driver ask if you have a resort card in order to board the bus. They say a perk of staying on property is having free bus transportation, but I think non resort guests have been using the busses for years.... :rolleyes:
We were asked for it (randomly) on our 1996 tips and 1997 when we took a break from Disney (bought a house got married gave birth) we came back in 2003 and they were not asking for it.

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 12:54 AM
my question is if we as dcv members are subsidisng the SSR buses with our dues shouldnt they be exclusive for the people who pay for them..the dvc members.

if not then everyone has a right to use the transportation as needed


Yes we do and that is my point why do we subsidize it at all if it is allowed to anyone Disney wishes to provide it to?
...ALSO it is unnnerving that people can just get off at a resort they are not staying at and wander around. If they have any WDW resort ID card fine IMO but something to prove they belong there or have the right to ride the buses.

Sammie
02-21-2005, 12:57 AM
I would write to Carli.

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 01:08 AM
I would write to Carli.
I just did :) I will see what the reponse is :)

calypso*a*go-go
02-21-2005, 03:23 AM
I just did :) I will see what the reponse is :)

I doubt you will get the response you're looking for. Here's my take on it -- Disney still has a whole bunch of unsold SSR contracts. Why wouldn't they take advantage of using the buses to get people over to SSR to take a look-see (even if it is just a way to get to DTD). For all we know, they might instructing park employees to offer that routing. If this is the case, I think it's pretty rotten if we're the one's footing the bill for it.

Beca
02-21-2005, 04:04 AM
This should be an easy fix for WDW - at DL they allow parking at their DTD for 3 hrs free - 2 hrs more if you get the pass validated - their parking lots are like ones at an airport where you take a ticket and pass thru a gate with a time stamp on the ticket. That would fix abusers of the parking situation, IMHO.

I agree with this....but, DL's system is ALL kinds of "messed up". We went to DTD to go shopping at World of Disney. Three hours and over $300 later, we returned to our car. On the way out, we asked the CM at the kiosk to "validate" our parking pass. He said, "Did you eat at a fine dining restaurant?" I said, "No." He asked, "Did you go see a movie?" Again, I replied, "No." He told me he was sorry, but he could not validate my pass. I said, "Here's my receipt from World of Disney, and here are the bags of all the stuff I bought. I spent over $300." He said, "I'm sorry...If you go see a movie...I can validate your pass." I explained how Disney would've received a lot less of my money that day HAD I gone to see a $20 movie.

....I still had to pay for parking!!!

I guess on the upside...if I can afford to spend $300 in WOD, I really shouldn't complain about charging me $2 for parking....but, still....I guess Disney wasn't happy with my $300...they had to make it $302. I guess that little "encounter" with the CM would DEFINITELY have put me on the "naughty list"!!! :rotfl:

But, I really do like the idea of charging for parking in DTD. When we were there in Dec., we decided to "run" over to DTD to do a little shopping on our way to the airport. We arrived at 10am, and could not find a parking spot ANYWHERE!!! There is NO way you can tell me that at a relatively slow time for WDW that DTD parking is packed with people who want to go "shopping". I honestly cannot imagine why anyone would try to park there and go to the parks...it's too crowded with other people trying to do the same thing!!! ;)

But, seriously....here's a question for those of you BWV people in "the know". When we stayed there in Dec., we had to slide our room card in the machine to get into the gate. How are these people getting in? Do guards just let them in if they say they are going to the boardwalk? If so, do they give them a time limit or require a validation from an eating establishment on the way out? That's nuts!!! We are pretty frugal, and we SWORE we would not do valet parking at BWV, but one look at that parking lot, and we valet parked EVERY time!!!

Does BCV have the same problem?

Regarding SSR....if DVC dues are ENTIRELY subsidizing the busses to and from DTD, then I think DVC members ought to be able to "make the rules" on who can/cannot be on those busses. The only problem with that would be that right now DVC is the largest owner of SSR. That means they can make the rules. I agree with Calypso, maybe DVC and WDW are "encouraging" this to get people over to SSR...a really good sales tactic. But, SSR owners are going to be the ones to pay for this later.

But, an interesting thought....maybe DVC busses that are not shared with other resorts should be more "restrictive" about who can/cannot get on. Maybe show a room key with "DVC member" on it.

:wave:

Beca

senecabeach
02-21-2005, 06:24 AM
Gone are the days of showing my resort ID to take the water launches or "priority" entrance (HA!) to the monorail to get to the Poly, GF or C or FW.

Lets try to think like Disney management! We already know what the average family spends on a visit to WDW. If we can draw more people to the resorts...DTD...they WILL spend more $$$! Breakfasts, Character breakfasts, Lunch, Dinners, Drinks, "special" resort logo souveniers..etc. Do you really think D would turn back anyone who rode on a bus?? Oh..and us (DVC owners...me too) have no entitlement rights..really!

iwaseeyore
02-21-2005, 08:02 AM
So let me understand. No one but DVC members should be able to use the busses to DVC resorts? So with this logic, as a DVC member I shouldn't be able to use Disney Transportation?

This is in FAQ for MYW tickets:

Get around to everywhere in Walt Disney World® Resort with complimentary and convenient Disney transportation.

It seems like there are no limitations.

athenna
02-21-2005, 08:09 AM
No, I think what we're trying to say is only Disney resort guests and DVC members should be allowed. People not staying at a Disney resort should not be allowed to come and go as they please on these busses because they don't want to pay for parking, or it's just ''easier'', etc. At least that's my interpretation.

iwaseeyore
02-21-2005, 08:13 AM
No, I think what we're trying to say is only Disney resort guests and DVC members should be allowed. People not staying at a Disney resort should not be allowed to come and go as they please on these busses because they don't want to pay for parking, or it's just ''easier'', etc. At least that's my interpretation.

As I stated, a MYW tickets gives you access to Disney Transportation. So you want to take that away?

Pluto4Pres
02-21-2005, 08:39 AM
Yes we do and that is my point why do we subsidize it at all if it is allowed to anyone Disney wishes to provide it to?
...ALSO it is unnnerving that people can just get off at a resort they are not staying at and wander around. If they have any WDW resort ID card fine IMO but something to prove they belong there or have the right to ride the buses.

When the reports of burglaries at OKW hit the boards I wondered how someone would get in if they were not a CM or resort guest. Everyone has to stop at the gate and show ID to the guard to get in. Apparently it is pretty easy. Anyone can hop on a Disney bus at a park entrance with their backpack and ride right past the guard house. You don't have to show resort ID or a park pass to get on, so you don't need to buy a thing. Once they get to a resort they can walk around, hit several rooms for cash, jewelry, credit cards and small electronics. They can then leave the same way they got in with a full backpack.

I think that the inconvenience to SSR guests is only one part of the problem. The real issue is security. I would be glad to show my ID every time I got on a bus. I would have no problem if some information was recorded, like swiping the card or some type of speedpass device. They can also video tape me to their heart's desire, (in public areas of course). I don't plan on abusing the system. A few minor inconveniences are a small price to pay to reduce these abuses and tighten up security at the resorts. Disney need to be more vigilant in this area.

TR Denise
02-21-2005, 08:42 AM
When we were down in Dec (during pop warner time) twice when we got the bus from epcot to OKW there were large groups of cheerleaders and there familes getting on our buses. They asked the bus driver where to get off to go to downtown disney. Both times they got off at pennisula and walked to the HH. They werent a problem just made the buses really full and loud. They definetely were not staying at OKW

Dizholic
02-21-2005, 08:49 AM
Didn't the old park hopper passes have some language that you are allowed to use Disney transporation for free? Maybe that is why a castmember would tell them it's okay to use a resort bus???

Yes!!! I am not sure about the new tickets, but the old tickets did include WDW transportation. :earsgirl:

my3kids
02-21-2005, 08:51 AM
I honestly don't see the problem with this. The transportation system is there for anyone holding a multi day ticket. The resorts have always welcomed visitors to come and look around, visit the gift shops and restaurants. I'm sure my stay at AKL subsidised the buses also, but that doesn't mean others shouldn't ride a bus to eat at Jiko. The tickets that people staying at off site hotels bought also probably subsidise the buses. I guess I equate it to riding the monorail to the Contemporary and walking over to MK, or taking the boat to WL to eat, even if I'm staying somewhere else. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Cruelladeville
02-21-2005, 08:54 AM
Actually, yes, I would like to keep you from riding free on a bus that I (and all DVC members) pay for! I pay over $2000 per year for dues, and if 10% goes to transportation, I am paying $200 for the bus that you think you are entitled to ride free of charge. :sad2:

Why would Disney provide all the security people to check cars, and so forth, but anyone can get on a bus? Does Disney really think that thieves, murderers, bombers, etc. only arrive by car, but they wouldn't think of just walking into the resort, and then taking the bus to get away? What better way to set a bomb, for example, than putting it in a regular tote bag, and then hiding in plain sight after the deed is done? The answer is that security must be there to keep US in line, not to provide actual security for its guests.

Years ago you had to show your resort pass in order to ride buses, they got rid of this about 10-15 years ago. They need to reintroduce this. If you are staying on-property, you ride free, but everyone else should pay to use the bus system. Paying money would also keep people from parking where they shouldn't be, and actual guests could be reimbursed at the valet desk inside. :grouphug:

DVCnewbie
02-21-2005, 09:09 AM
When someone buys a multi-day ticket(which would be most visiters), they can use any bus to any resort they want as it is all part of the transportation circuit. I think the bigger issue is that someone would act the way the woman in the first post did, especially around her children. In regards to the people who feel they are payting for the right to use the DVC resort buses in our dues, that far from the case. DVC is an entirely different company than the WDW transportation system and as such any dues paid to the DVC go only for DVC property( i.e improvement, up-keep and future DVC properties). The transportation budget is part of the WDW theme park budget which shares no money or funding with DVC. If you were to look at the operating budget for the entire Disney Corp for the past year(if you are a stock holder) you would notice there are seperate budget statement for themeparks and DVC(or real estate holding company). So in the end none of your dues are being wasted on any who allegedly abuse the free transportation system. Just wanted to clear that up. Even so that woman should never act like that much less around kids :sad2: .

snowbunny
02-21-2005, 09:21 AM
Actually, yes, I would like to keep you from riding free on a bus that I (and all DVC members) pay for! I pay over $2000 per year for dues, and if 10% goes to transportation, I am paying $200 for the bus that you think you are entitled to ride free of charge. :sad2:

It is not exactly "free" as the cost of Disney transportation is included in the whopping park pass fee. I doubt that DVC dues even begin to cover the cost of operating all the WDW buses, even if 100% of dues are allocated to bus service, which they cannot be.

Disney has to fill hundreds of restaurants each day and showcase the resorts (so that next time, the family that stayed in Kissimmee can see what they are missing by not saving up to stay at the Poly or wherever, which they will see when they take WDW transportation to the luau). WDW adds a charge for bus and monorail rides into the park tickets. The expectation that WDW is going to do anything to discourage people from remaining in the parks and resorts as long as possible each day, i.e., sending them back to the Hilton for dinner instead of letting them ride over for "free" and spend $$$ at a WDW park or resort, is naive. Never going to happen.

jarestel
02-21-2005, 09:23 AM
In regards to the people who feel they are payting for the right to use the DVC resort buses in our dues, that far from the case. DVC is an entirely different company than the WDW transportation system and as such any dues paid to the DVC go only for DVC property( i.e improvement, up-keep and future DVC properties). The transportation budget is part of the WDW theme park budget which shares no money or funding with DVC.

Not exactly, newbie. On your dues statement there is a transportation component. In fact, there was a thread here a year or 2 ago documenting a BWV owner who figured out that BWV owners were being overcharged for transportation. ( and was acknowledged by DVC ).

Sammie
02-21-2005, 09:37 AM
When someone buys a multi-day ticket(which would be most visiters), they can use any bus to any resort they want as it is all part of the transportation circuit. I think the bigger issue is that someone would act the way the woman in the first post did, especially around her children. In regards to the people who feel they are payting for the right to use the DVC resort buses in our dues, that far from the case. DVC is an entirely different company than the WDW transportation system and as such any dues paid to the DVC go only for DVC property( i.e improvement, up-keep and future DVC properties). The transportation budget is part of the WDW theme park budget which shares no money or funding with DVC. If you were to look at the operating budget for the entire Disney Corp for the past year(if you are a stock holder) you would notice there are seperate budget statement for themeparks and DVC(or real estate holding company). So in the end none of your dues are being wasted on any who allegedly abuse the free transportation system. Just wanted to clear that up. Even so that woman should never act like that much less around kids :sad2: .

Actually each resort pays for its own transportation. That is why the more transportation options the more they cost. That cost is figured into the cost of the room. Hence DVC members do pay for the cost of transportation to DVC resorts just as the guests at the Polynesian pay for transportation to that resort. Each resort has a transportation budget.

cruise-o-matic
02-21-2005, 09:42 AM
I posted this on the Community Board, but here's my $.02 for this thread too:

I would think that since SSR, like OKW is an exclusive DVC resort, where the bus transportation $ is paid from members dues, then DVC members should have more of a say on who rides.

Maybe check resort ID's at peak riding times, like Park closings, etc.

This really seems to be an issue at MK. Why don't the CM's instead tell people to walk to the Contemporary and ride the DTD bus from there? For those leaving Epcot/MGM, then the CM's can tell them to catch one from YC/BC or BW. That way, you don't inconvenience those wanting to get "home".

Carrickdisfan
02-21-2005, 09:53 AM
I live in the UK (Northern Ireland) and the hopper passes we buy here state that you have the use of the Disney transportation. Therefore there should not be a problem using the buses/ferries located at a DVC resort to get to one of the parks or DTD. Of course this does not include avoiding the parking fees at the parks. I don't think you are allowed to leave your car at the Boardwalk for a full day and go to Epcot or MGM thus avoiding the parking fees however you can use the Boardwalk transportation if you park elsewhere. Using a bus for SSR from say MK to get to DTD does not seem a problem to me if it is included in my hopper pass or the new style passes.

rbuzzotta
02-21-2005, 10:10 AM
My solution for this problem........................we never use the bus system!!

We drive!!! LOL!!!

NMW
02-21-2005, 10:48 AM
I know the MYW tickets say that use of the transportation is included. I see how Disney would like to get off-site guests to see the "ease" of this transportation and also how great the Disney resorts are. I can only guess that Disney would also like people to see their DVC resorts too. It seems like CM's are telling people to use the SSR bus for going to/from DTD (for those who haven't figured it out on their own). Why don't they just charge a parking fee for DTD and then people probably would not do this? I don't see any other way to stop this. People who buy a MYW ticket are allowed to use the transportation, including the resort buses, period. That's a lot of off site guests. That's probably why as some have said the parking at DTD is crazy to begin with. If they charged a fee to park, and then did some sort of validation thing for people eating or going to DQ, it would really cut down on this. I really think this is the only way to stop this.
I imagine the SSR buses will get a lot more crowded when the resort is completed. Especialy if they are filled with DDT parkers. Just my opinion! :flower:

Scoootch
02-21-2005, 10:51 AM
Wow...there were so many different things brought up on this issue I hardly know where to start:(

First...I agree that since our dues subsidize the bus transportation, they should not be allowing just anyone to ride...but...unfortuneatly, that's just not a realistic expectation I guess as has been stated quite a few times so far on this thread due to several things:

1. (and this is probably the biggest) I just don't see Disney discouraging it on any level as it seems that it's completely in their interest whether someone is a resort guest,ticket holder or even someone who paid nothing and just came for the day because it inconveniences them not at all yet makes them more $$$ by these people either spending their $$ at a resturant,gift shop,theme park, or on a future stay onsight. I doubt they really consider some of us members being peeved by it much of a problem as compared to the extra $$ they're profiting by it :sad2:

2. Because of reason's I just stated in #1 here, they are not likely ever going to start I.D.'ing people boarding the resort buses to make sure they are entitled because again it benefits them $$ wise to give the transportation away since they'll gain more $$ from those guests spending at the destinations they take the buses to.

What I find completely unfair though is that we are paying to subsidize the buses through our dues and yet they not only get our dues tword the buses but also extra $$ from those who may not be entitled to use the transportation system since they ultimetly will buy souveniers,food & whatnot.

I also get aggrevated that whenever we've driven over to DTD, it's a royal pain in the heiny to find a parking space http://smilies.sofrayt.com/1/t/grr.gif it never crossed my mind that it's people once again trying to get out of paying to park at the parks let alone non-resort guests abusing the bus system. :rolleyes:

It's just aggrevating:(

manning
02-21-2005, 11:21 AM
It is not exactly "free" as the cost of Disney transportation is included in the whopping park pass fee. I doubt that DVC dues even begin to cover the cost of operating all the WDW buses, even if 100% of dues are allocated to bus service, which they cannot be.

Let's see now that means DVC owners pay for bus service and then pay again when they buy park passes.

I GOT IT!! let's put a surcharge on DVC routes for those non owners riding DVC route buses. $20 a day sounds good. Put fare boxes (exact change only or speed pass, post requirements on front door). Violators subject to towing or booting (off the bus) if they complain :teeth:.

Seriously, why should DVC owners pay twice for transportation! And be inconvenienced by those having no business on DVC sites!! (OKW/SSR).

If Disney was able to police who rode in the old days they could do it today much easier with the technology we have now.

Why not parking charges for those who want to park(free at DTD), daily transportation charges for those who want to ride. Free parking at hotels for hotel guests at hotel they are staying at with transportation included in the room charges. Disney paid alot of money to put in security gates and should use them with modern technology to better manage traffic flow. Then everyone will be happy.

CarolAnnC
02-21-2005, 11:24 AM
Last November we noticed a huge line at the SSR bus stop outside of the Studios. We were in the OKW line, which was not overly crowded. After our bus came and we loaded up, the driver announced he was picking up the SSR line as well since there were so many of them.

Our bus was insanely packed when we pulled out, but still left a line of others behind. I am surprised they can legally load that many standing passengers onto the vehicle. I overheard several of the SSR people complaining that we were stopping at every OKW stop, before they would then be driven over to SSR. Now I am wondering if these were SSR resort guests, or people misusing the system to avoid parking at the parks.

It seemed amazing to me that there were so many of them and the resort is far from completion..hmmmmm.

tjkraz
02-21-2005, 11:30 AM
As I stated, a MYW tickets gives you access to Disney Transportation. So you want to take that away?

I don't want to blow this too far out of proportion (might be too late for that ;) ), but if Disney wants to make that commitment to their guests, that's their business. But DVC members pay for their bus service. In a sense, Disney is somewhat overstepping their bounds by encouraging guests to use busses that they really don't fund.

An easy solution would be for Disney to contribute to transportation costs and ensure that significant busses are scheduled to handle the inevitable overflow at certain times of day.

But, in the grand scheme of things, I think they should be a little more worried about secondary issues like security. I'm really not crazy about the prospect of WDW guests being encouraged to walk right through the middle of Congress Park on their way to DD late at night.

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 11:54 AM
As I stated, a MYW tickets gives you access to Disney Transportation. So you want to take that away?


not only all MYW tickets, but all AP's and florida residents passes as well. Basically every single person at WDW has the right to ride the busses to wherever they want and all day long if they choose.

Thats the rules as I see them anyway. I think they need to be altered a bit, but these people are technically not breaking any rules

Chuck S
02-21-2005, 11:57 AM
I don't see why their couldn't be two levels of transportation. The resorts used to require a resort ID to board resort busses. Offsite hopper ticket holders could be limited to inter-park transportation. Resort guests, no matter what resort, could be allowed full use, that would alow for dining and shopping at all resorts. AP holders could also be allowed full use, as it is unlikely they would try to save the parking costs, as it is included in an AP.

princessgirl2238
02-21-2005, 12:08 PM
This really seems to be an issue at MK. Why don't the CM's instead tell people to walk to the Contemporary and ride the DTD bus from there? For those leaving Epcot/MGM, then the CM's can tell them to catch one from YC/BC or BW. That way, you don't inconvenience those wanting to get "home".[/QUOTE]


The problem with that is Contemporary, Poly and the Grand all use the same bus, and usually they have less buses for them to transport their guests. The other things is if you all want esclusive buses for DVC, what about the people staying there that are not DVC members? the transportation is owned by disney not DVC.

Ashley
20 days till BCV :cheer2:
Fall 03 College Program Intern :wizard:
August 03 POR :mickeybar
April 02 CSR :flower:
August 01 CSR princess:
August 98 off properity :earsgirl:

doubletrouble_vb
02-21-2005, 12:08 PM
Disney does need to find a way to resolve this problem.

One possibility is to reinstitute the direct bus to the parks from DTD...and charge half of what it would cost to park directly at any given theme park. They could use those huge empty lots over by OKW...gate them off so you can't easily walk from the regular lots for DTD. This gives the people who just have to save a buck or two a way to do it, it gives the offsite hotels an easy way to link up to the Disney system...and gets them off the Disney roads...and it'll take the strain off of the Disney resort busses. These would work in the same way distant parking lots do in airports.

Yes there will be people who just have to cheat...and there always will be. But riding the transportation system isn't the point at which they are cheating...it's the parking for free part where they are going wrong.

Security -- The bus system is the least of the security problems for Disney. And I'd appreciate it if people didn't speculate about ways to use WMD onsite thank you very much. But I will say that someone bent on that sort of nastiness wont squawk about paying a few minor or even major charges to do it. So lets talk about theft instead.

The gate security guard basically notes information about the driver and the vehicle...someone could drive in a minivan full of thieving adults and teens just as easily as riding a bus from the parks or DTD. All it takes is one former employee ...or a frequent guest to figure out the weaknesses in the system and exploit them. As I'm not interested in sharing any ideas about it I won't do it in print but as far as I'm concerned the Disney security is just an illusion to make guests feel better...in reality you are no safer than you would be in any other densely populated community in America.

georgeat
02-21-2005, 12:28 PM
If Disney would run the buses on as needed schedlue at peak times instead of every whatever minutes (20 30), they could move more people. But they run the buses as the drivers rules direct. They are required to have a layover and the bus sits until that layover time expires. This wastes fuel and makes passengers (guests?) wait longer for the bus. WDW transportation is one of the few Disney organizations that runs on a schedule and not to meet guest peak demands.

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 12:32 PM
Alot of the bus issue problem is centered around SSR.

The simpliest solution, in my opinion, is to just gate up DTD and require a parking fee. Resorts guests, AP holders, florida AP holders, PI AP holders, and DQ AP holders get in for free. The majority of these people(maybe all) will not be parking at DTD to avoid park parking fees.

Then maybe open the gates after say like 5 or 6 pm so any locals coming in for dinner or PI are all set. I dont assume many are going to use a full days pass to arrive at 5 or 6 pm to avoid the parking fee at DTD. I am not crazy about the parking fee validation route as I think many will probably be eating somewhere and hence plan accordingly and eat somewhere at DTD.

I also am not crazy about time limits, theres just way to much to do down in that area and I dont think Disney wants to limit their guests time thereby limiting their spending

All in all the only people that will ever have to pay a parking fee are those non resort guests or non any type of AP holder coming to shop or eat at DTD in the afternoon. which is probably no many.

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 12:42 PM
If Disney would run the buses on as needed schedlue at peak times instead of every whatever minutes (20 30), they could move more people. But they run the buses as the drivers rules direct. They are required to have a layover and the bus sits until that layover time expires. This wastes fuel and makes passengers (guests?) wait longer for the bus. WDW transportation is one of the few Disney organizations that runs on a schedule and not to meet guest peak demands.

I dont know maybe i am wrong, but i am pretty sure the schedules are created based on demand. They may not have the demand correct but I think they increase and decrease the number of busses depending on time of year.

dianeschlicht
02-21-2005, 12:47 PM
Disney does need to find a way to resolve this problem.

One possibility is to reinstitute the direct bus to the parks from DTD...and charge half of what it would cost to park directly at any given theme park. They could use those huge empty lots over by OKW...gate them off so you can't easily walk from the regular lots for DTD. This gives the people who just have to save a buck or two a way to do it, it gives the offsite hotels an easy way to link up to the Disney system...and gets them off the Disney roads...and it'll take the strain off of the Disney resort busses. These would work in the same way distant parking lots do in airports.

Yes there will be people who just have to cheat...and there always will be. But riding the transportation system isn't the point at which they are cheating...it's the parking for free part where they are going wrong. {snip}.
I like this idea! That way, the "cheaters" would feel they were saving, and there would be parking spaces at DTD for those of us who like to drive there instead of taking all the time it takes to go such a short distance from OKW to DTD.

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 12:54 PM
The gate security guard basically notes information about the driver and the vehicle...someone could drive in a minivan full of thieving adults and teens just as easily as riding a bus from the parks or DTD. All it takes is one former employee ...or a frequent guest to figure out the weaknesses in the system and exploit them. As I'm not interested in sharing any ideas about it I won't do it in print but as far as I'm concerned the Disney security is just an illusion to make guests feel better...in reality you are no safer than you would be in any other densely populated community in America.


good points, plus I doubt anyone who is interested in causing problems is going to go through the trouble of going to park first just so they can catch a bus to a resort in an effort to mingle in.

You cant just have a resort bus that is strictly only for resort guests. These resorts have dining, shopping, entertainment etc. that non resort guests sometimes want to experience.

LeftCoaster
02-21-2005, 01:07 PM
Alot of the bus issue problem is centered around SSR.

The simpliest solution, in my opinion, is to just gate up DTD and require a parking fee. Resorts guests, AP holders, florida reisdent pass holders, PI AP holders, and DQ AP holders get in for free. The majority of these people(maybe all) will not be parking at DTD to avoid park parking fees.

Then maybe open the gates after say like 5 or 6 pm so any locals coming in for dinner or PI are all set. I dont assume many are going to use a full days pass to arrive at 5 or 6 pm to avoid the parking fee at DTD. I am not crazy about the parking fee validation route as I think many will probably be eating somewhere and hence plan accordingly and eat somewhere at DTD.


All in all the only people that will ever have to pay a parking fee are those non resort guests or non any type of AP holder coming to shop or eat at DTD in the afternoon. which is probably no many.

Funny, I was thinking the same EXACT thing. And an added benefit, if this worked out well, is that Disney could then offer direct transportation to DTD and that would relieve the SSR busses too.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 02:23 PM
3DisneyNUTS :
ALSO it is unnnerving that people can just get off at a resort they are not staying at and wander around. If they have any WDW resort ID card fine IMO but something to prove they belong there or have the right to ride the buses.
How 'bout going there to shop or eat ? Is this what you mean by wander around ? Not sure.
The Hopper passes state we have full use of the Disney transportation. I'm both a DVC Member and own an offsite timeshare. I can tell you we have used the busses to get to PS in the past. I don't see how this is wrong. Not breaking any rules :confused3



Beca:
we had to slide our room card in the machine to get into the gate. How are these people getting in? Do guards just let them in if they say they are going to the boardwalk? If so, do they give them a time limit or require a validation from an eating establishment on the way out? That's nuts!!! We are pretty frugal, and we SWORE we would not do valet parking at BWV, but one look at that parking lot, and we valet parked EVERY time!!!
We have parked at both the BWV & BC to dine when staying at another WDW resort and also when we stay offsite at our Vistana timeshare. We have been given a 3 hour limit and used valet parking for BWV. I don't know how people would get into a gated parking lot without a card either ? The one we parked in at the BC was not gated and we were directed there by the guard & given a limit. We were having dinner at Cape May.


Manning:
And be inconvenienced by those having no business on DVC sites!! (OKW/SSR).
Once again.....how 'bout to shop or dine ? What constitutes "no business" ? :confused3 We have in the past, while staying at Vistana and visiting the parks, hopped on a bus to OKW, BWV, WL (or the resort monorail to the Poly or Contemporary) etc for a restaurant PS. While we're there to eat, we'll also check out the shops or rent watercraft too. Again, I don't see how we're doing something illegal 1) because it's stated we can use wdw transportation on our Hoppers 2) we have specific "business" at that specific resort (i.e. PS, shopping, renting water craft etc).
I do see the problem with people parking at DTD or say BWV to visit the parks, because they are not directly patronizing DTD shops/restaurants or BWV restaurants/shops. Using the busses strictly to get out of parking in the main lot should not be encouraged. Anyone using SSR busses should be doing so with a specific purpose of utilizing some amenity at that resort. The SSR Spa comes to mind. There really are no full service restaurants there that people would come to patronize. If they're not using the spa, they are there strictly to find an easier way into the parks or DD. That's a whole other story.
So I guess I'm coming from the perspective of both a DVC Member and offsite guest and don't see why, if I'm staying at Vistana, I should be banned from visiting/patronizing other disney resorts. They have alot to offer as a whole to any visitor to WDW. Some offsite guests take their hotel shuttle to the parks and have no other way of getting to a restaurant (i.e.) except for wdw busses/monorail ?

jnrrt
02-21-2005, 02:45 PM
We spend a lot of time at the other resorts just because we like to look around, and also decide where we want to stay next time. Last year we had lunch at Olivia's on our way out of town, so even though we weren't DVCer's we had a reason to be there.

Also, I think some kind of parking system is a good idea at DTD. At our mall downtown, they often charge after a certain amount of time unless you've been validated by a store. That way, it doesn't discourage shoppers, but it does discourage people from using it as cheap downtown parking who would park there and leave their car all day while working. So it works for the shopper and the mall. I think something similar could be really helpful. We like to shop and eat at DTD, but it is a real pain to park there. So actually, sometimes Disney is losing my money at DTD because I think it's not worth the effort to park there and I don't feel like taking a bus. It's a shame that the people abusing the free parking are making it so others won't go to DTD for the reason the parking is there in the first place.

PatMcDuck
02-21-2005, 02:46 PM
While I am not a SS owner, so it does not effect me directly, but I have a question. Doesn't every guest who has a park hopper ticket have access to the WDW transportation system? The entire system, as I always understood it. While annoying, I don't see what rule these people are breaking.

I take monorails to various resorts for shopping and meals, and I am not a guest staying there.

SoCalKDG
02-21-2005, 02:55 PM
Should we even care since SSR is a second rate DVC resort..... :) just kidding. I just finished that very long discussion on SSR looking like appt buildings...

What should happen is an increase in the number of buses for SSR. This way even if DTD people are using it, it won't matter since they will have more buses.

I'd also start charging parking at DTD. After 4 hours its $6.00 per hour. Each $10 of purchase buys you one more hour.

Beca
02-21-2005, 03:05 PM
Okay....I have a couple of ideas. Why doesn't WDW:

1) Gate off DTD and go to validation

2) Subsidize the ENTIRE cost of the transportation from park tickets. If those are the people who are "entitled" to use the transportation system. Why not charge accordingly? It seems the way the system is now, offsite guests actually are getting more of a bargain because all onsite guests are charged twice....once from their park tickets, and once from the resort they are staying at (either DVC or WDW). And, then you have the people at the Swan/Dolphin who are being charged a $10 fee up front. I was told that was to cover bus service to those parks. But, aren't people who are going to the parks already paying for the bus service via their park tickets? I am assuming, therefore that the subsidy of transportation may be split between resort fees and park tickets. But, that means that resort guests are being charged twice for something that non-resort guests are getting a lot cheaper.

It doesn't make much sense. I think they should remove the subsidy from the resorts, and up the price of the park tickets...that would be fair if they want to have the usage policy that they do now.

But, that would decrease attendance because it would look so expensive to go to WDW. And, they own it....they make the rules. However, they do need to have some "safeguards" in place for SSR resort guests to get to and from their rooms. Maybe they need to offer a "front of the line" access to anyone showing an SSR room key when boarding. All others can then get on the bus if there is room available. I do think this is a unique situation due to the resort's proximity to DTD...WDW needs to accept this and deal with it.

The fact that this is becoming a problem does shoot a hole in the theory that "DTD is not enough of a destination to make SSR a valuable property" now doesn't it?

:wave:

Beca

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 03:14 PM
My concerns are these:
People are going to use the buses and are going to over crowd them by using the SSR line to get to DTD and the surrounding hotels.

Why have gated resorts then if anyone can gain unchecked access to the resorts via the buses?

Why are we paying dues when we still have to buy park tickets? By the logic that the park ticket pays for the transportation also then why are we paying twice?

Also I don't mind people coming to eat at the resort but what I do mind is using it as a transportation hub to get to different places. Using SSR as a bus stop. Of course anyone who wants to come and eat and shop at SSR should be welcomed to do so but right now with there only being counter service and a small gift shop that number would be small in comparision to the people jumping over to DTD or the other hotels over there. Therefore not a huge impact on the bus service for SSR guests.

I mean is it fair to have people who don't want to pay to park clog up our buses when the resort is completed?

jarestel
02-21-2005, 03:37 PM
I mean is it fair to have people who don't want to pay to park clog up our buses when the resort is completed?

Not fair at all. Hopefully DVC will listen to the membership and come up with a fair and equitable solution for everyone involved.

littlestar
02-21-2005, 04:38 PM
Here's a quote from my Birmbaum's 2001 Walt Disney World book about transportation:

"TRANSPORTATION ID REQUIREMENTS:
Guests wishing to use the Walt Disney World transportation system may be asked to present proof of their riding privileges. Accepted IDs afford different degrees of access. WDW resort ID cards, Park Hopper Passes, Park Hopper Plus Passes, Ultimate Park Hopper Passes, and Annual Passes allow guests unlimited use of all Disney buses, monorails, and boats. Valid one-day theme park tickets permit guests to use all monorails and the ferries running between the TTC and the Magic Kingdom, but do not allow use of buses."

I don't have a current year Birmbaum's book, but I would guess that if you are a multi-day pass holder you get the transportation (and that includes all buses).

I personally feel like I'm lost whenever I'm at SSR without a map and I can't imagine someone purposely using SSR buses to get to the Downtown Disney hotels. Especially at night - I'd be wandering around forever in those parking lots. No thank you, please.

I'm a DVC member and an Annual Pass Holder. I'm sure my small amount of DVC dues for transportation is a drop in the bucket to what it really costs Disney to run their transportation.

DrTomorrow
02-21-2005, 04:47 PM
Woo-hoo, is this a wild one!

I don't think that anything's going to change, as I don't feel that Disney thinks there's a problem. They really, really want as many people as possible to go to the resorts to eat, buy souvies or just wander around & get the idea that next time they'd want to stay at this resort.

Security? Heh - pardon me for a moment :rotfl2:. There's absolutely nothing preventing anyone - nefarious intentions or not - from walking right into SSR via the path to DTD. And even before SSR was open, anyone could just as easily parked at DTD and walked to OKW. Security at WDW - like at so many other places - is geared primarily towards the appearance of security. How many of you good folks have had your bags thoroughly checked when entering a park - where the security guard saw every single item in your purse/bag/cooler and knew for sure it was safe?

Also, what's with the "I pay for it so it's my bus" routine? I own at SSR, so I get to use the buses. What if I'm staying at SSR on points, but do NOT have a valid WDW ticket (let's assume it's a non-WDW-based trip): does that mean I can't ride any of the non-SSR buses? One night, coming home from the MK, we rode a bus that made all the OKW stops first, then took us to CP and SSR - do I own someone at OKW a check for using their bus?

SSR and DTD are close; while that's one of the reasons we bought into SSR, it also means we get some of the DTD traffic. Even if Disney gates the DTD parking (which I don't think it will, as it seems to be doing everything it can [the PI policy change, etc.] to get MORE people to wander around that area) it wouldn't eliminate all of the other folks (resort guests and paid parkers) who want to go to DTD on WDW transportation. Disney has shown a marked lack of desire to do anything that confronts a guest (mug-refilling, pool-hopping, granting room changes due to bluster, etc.); to expect new "resort-guest-only" policies, along with expecting every person to have his/her resort ID just to ride the bus is, well, IMHO not.gonna.happen.

Now remember - I was one of the first to bring up the "DTD bus situation" when we stayed at SSR last May less than a week after the place opened; I'm still not overjoyed with it. However, I just don't that this is problem that is high on the list of DVC issues to deal with....

IMHO - YMMV

DrTomorrow
02-21-2005, 04:54 PM
[...] I personally feel like I'm lost whenever I'm at SSR without a map and I can't imagine someone purposely using SSR buses to get to the Downtown Disney hotels. Especially at night - I'd be wandering around forever in those parking lots. No thank you, please. [...] Actually, it's quite easy - here's how it was done when we were there in December:

At any theme park (we were at the MK), ask any CM or bus driver which bus to take to get to DTD. They will tell you to take the SSR bus; being the helpful souls that they are, they will probably even point out the bus stop. Once on the bus, tell the driver that you want to end up at DTD; being the helpful soul that he is, he'll tell you to get off at the Congress Park stop - and announce at that stop that this is the stop for DTD, too. At the CP stop, you can see the bright colors and/or bright lights of DTD/PI/WE; you can either ask a friendly SSR guest or simply walk in that direction until you see the sign for the path to DTD.

littlestar
02-21-2005, 04:57 PM
I'm a natural blond and I sware to you, I got lost wondering around SSR! Heaven help me if it was dark out, too. ;)

jarestel
02-21-2005, 05:03 PM
I don't have a horse in this race since I'm not an SSR owner, but I do think DVC absolutely SHOULD do something to ensure that SSR owners aren't left holding the bag in order to boost DTD/PI attendance. It's one thing to have to stand on the bus ride back from the parks when everyone on the bus is going to your resort, but quite another when half of them start hiking over to DTD once they get off the bus. Unfortunately, DVC hasn't been very receptive to members' resort experience concerns in my 5 years or so, so I don't know if anything can be expected from them. But hope springs eternal. Hey, we got AP discounts, so you never know.

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 05:28 PM
I don't see why their couldn't be two levels of transportation. The resorts used to require a resort ID to board resort busses. Offsite hopper ticket holders could be limited to inter-park transportation. Resort guests, no matter what resort, could be allowed full use, that would alow for dining and shopping at all resorts. AP holders could also be allowed full use, as it is unlikely they would try to save the parking costs, as it is included in an AP.
GREAT POINT Chuck!!! I agree.

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 05:56 PM
GREAT POINT Chuck!!! I agree.

not to be rude, but i dont know if you guys are just missing the point or care not to see it. disney wants everyone to go to the resorts not just the resort guests. They would love people staying off site to come to the park then hop on over to one of their restraunts instead of to one wherever they came from.
Disney would love to get people to walk throught e resorts, maybe someone who has never been will really like it and want to stay there next time, etc etc etc

they probably are not going to stop non resort guests from using the busses

also on allears I found the following, obvioulsy it may be incorrect so dont quote me quote them:

What do the Admission tickets include?

"Regular Magic Your Way Base tickets provide entrance to a single theme park on a given day....... Use of Disney transportation is included with admission."

so it seems to me its not only multi-day tickets as some had asked

Simba's Mom
02-21-2005, 06:02 PM
When the reports of burglaries at OKW hit the boards I wondered how someone would get in if they were not a CM or resort guest. Everyone has to stop at the gate and show ID to the guard to get in. Apparently it is pretty easy. Anyone can hop on a Disney bus at a park entrance with their backpack and ride right past the guard house. You don't have to show resort ID or a park pass to get on, so you don't need to buy a thing. Once they get to a resort they can walk around, hit several rooms for cash, jewelry, credit cards and small electronics. They can then leave the same way they got in with a full backpack.

I think that the inconvenience to SSR guests is only one part of the problem. The real issue is security. I would be glad to show my ID every time I got on a bus. I would have no problem if some information was recorded, like swiping the card or some type of speedpass device. They can also video tape me to their heart's desire, (in public areas of course). I don't plan on abusing the system. A few minor inconveniences are a small price to pay to reduce these abuses and tighten up security at the resorts. Disney need to be more vigilant in this area.

You know, I hadn't thought of that-the safety problem getting into resorts. Twice in the last year, I've been staying (solo) at a different DVC resort, yet took the bus over to OKW to "check out" something for OKW fanatic DH (trying to remember, maybe it was the pool slide). Although I never had any problem and didn't expect to, now I'm not sure I'm so happy about how easy it was to wander around OKW. You're right-not once was I asked for any type of ID. But when we drive, to check in, DH has to stop, give his name, and show ID. Anyone could just hop a bus with their backpack (filled with tools or who knows what). Not sure of the answer to this problem, though.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 06:02 PM
Offsite hopper ticket holders could be limited to inter-park transportation. Resort guests, no matter what resort, could be allowed full use, that would alow for dining and shopping at all resorts.
GREAT POINT Chuck!!! I agree.

So offsite guest shouldn't be allowed to visit the resorts for shopping or dining ? :confused3
I'm traveling this summer with in-laws and their children. We gave them our Vistana week while we'll be staying at OKW. I would hate to see them denied access to a bus going to ,say the WL for instance if we all had PS at Whispering Canyone for dinner ? That would make for a very disappointing vacation for us all considering this is the first time we're vacationing all together. The kids are very excited about having their cousins along who have NEVER been to WDW (compared to my kids' 15 trips at least). I know they could use their car, but how time consuming and what a hassle for us as a group to split up.

Beca
02-21-2005, 06:10 PM
not to be rude, but i dont know if you guys are just missing the point or care not to see it. disney wants everyone to go to the resorts not just the resort guests. They would love people staying off site to come to the park then hop on over to one of their restraunts instead of to one wherever they came from.
Disney would love to get people to walk throught e resorts, maybe someone who has never been will really like and want to stay there next time, etc etc etc



I think most people do get it. And, I don't think most people are really concerned about people walking thru their resort "sight seeing"...I mean, this happens at BWV and BCV all the time....BWV is a destination in and of itself.

I think SSR owners are simply concerned that CM's are "advising" people to cut thru their resort to get to another, non-SSR related destination. And, this is even further exacerbated by the fact that there is no "WDW resort" to help cover the costs of this increased "thoroughfare" traffic....it's just owners picking up the tab for extra busses...no resort is going to help cover the cost. And, if the people who were "passing through" were actually going to "spend money at SSR", I think most people would not be complaining. But, since regular resort guests cannot pool hop, and I seriously doubt large quantities of guests are making the trek to eat at Artist's Palette....I'd say they are just "passing through". Maybe the stores at DTD need to help subsidize the busses.

I don't own at SSR, so I don't really have a stake in this "horse", either (pardon the pun)...but, I don't think it is fair to ask SSR owners to subsidize the cost of bus transportation for any park guest. And, that is what they will end up doing....allocating more busses for this because of the traffic. SSR owners will end up paying for that.

JMHO,

:wave:

Beca

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 06:29 PM
So offsite guest shouldn't be allowed to visit the resorts for shopping or dining ? :confused3
I'm traveling this summer with in-laws and their children. We gave them our Vistana week while we'll be staying at OKW. I would hate to see them denied access to a bus going to ,say the WL for instance if we all had PS at Whispering Canyone for dinner ? That would be for a very disappointing vacation for us all considering this is the first time we're vacationing all together. The kids are very excited about having their cousins along who have NEVER been to WDW (compared to my kids' 15 trips at least). I know they could use their car, but how time consuming and what a hassle for us as a group to split up.
They could show their reservation at the gate or to the bus driver. Plus they are travelling with guests. I was not suggest completely shutting the busses off to those with good intentions but for pool hoppers or parking fee avoiders don't crowd my stop. Sorry but that is my opinion. It should not be an encouraged transportation hub to DTD. Go to the Ticket and transprotation center like it was in the past.

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 06:30 PM
I think most people do get it. And, I don't think most people are really concerned about people walking thru their resort "sight seeing"...I mean, this happens at BWV and BCV all the time....BWV is a destination in and of itself.

I think SSR owners are simply concerned that CM's are "advising" people to cut thru their resort to get to another, non-SSR related destination. And, this is even further exacerbated by the fact that there is no "WDW resort" to help cover the costs of this increased "thoroughfare" traffic....it's just owners picking up the tab for extra busses...no resort is going to help cover the cost. And, if the people who were "passing through" were actually going to "spend money at SSR", I think most people would not be complaining. But, since regular resort guests cannot pool hop, and I seriously doubt large quantities of guests are making the trek to eat at Artist's Palette....I'd say they are just "passing through". Maybe the stores at DTD need to help subsidize the busses.

I don't own at SSR, so I don't really have a stake in this "horse", either (pardon the pun)...but, I don't think it is fair to ask SSR owners to subsidize the cost of bus transportation for any park guest. And, that is what they will end up doing....allocating more busses for this because of the traffic. SSR owners will end up paying for that.

JMHO,

:wave:

Beca

Exactly Beca! Exactly!

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 06:36 PM
I think most people do get it. And, I don't think most people are really concerned about people walking thru their resort "sight seeing"...I mean, this happens at BWV and BCV all the time....BWV is a destination in and of itself.

I think SSR owners are simply concerned that CM's are "advising" people to cut thru their resort to get to another, non-SSR related destination. And, this is even further exacerbated by the fact that there is no "WDW resort" to help cover the costs of this increased "thoroughfare" traffic....it's just owners picking up the tab for extra busses...no resort is going to help cover the cost. And, if the people who were "passing through" were actually going to "spend money at SSR", I think most people would not be complaining. But, since regular resort guests cannot pool hop, and I seriously doubt large quantities of guests are making the trek to eat at Artist's Palette....I'd say they are just "passing through". Maybe the stores at DTD need to help subsidize the busses.

I don't own at SSR, so I don't really have a stake in this "horse", either (pardon the pun)...but, I don't think it is fair to ask SSR owners to subsidize the cost of bus transportation for any park guest. And, that is what they will end up doing....allocating more busses for this because of the traffic. SSR owners will end up paying for that.

JMHO,

:wave:

Beca


again not to be rude, but I do own at SSR and completely understand the problem. Thats why I posted earlier about a parking fee at DTD for anyone without a resort ID or some type of AP. that would eliminate alot of the people coming back to their cars at DTD via SSR busses.

then if you wanted to take it a step further have a bus going directly from the parks to DTD. Then almost no one would be taking the SSR bus.

I get the issue, the problem is no one is breaking any rules yet by taking the SSR busses to get to DTD and i dont think restricting non resort guests from using the busses is anywhere near the answer, in fact its so far off from the answer its nuts if you actually think about it.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 06:39 PM
And, if the people who were "passing through" were actually going to "spend money at SSR", I think most people would not be complaining. But, since regular resort guests cannot pool hop, and I seriously doubt large quantities of guests are making the trek to eat at Artist's Palette....I'd say they are just "passing through".
This is where I agree with you Beca. If people are simply using SSR as some sort of short-cut or by-pass (of parking fees), then this is a problem. But if they have some sort of reason to be there.....earlier I suggested they might come for the Spa (as an example), then I think it's a valid reason to use the bus system. I agree, I don't think many are coming to patron the food court there---but even they should be allowed to dine here if they choose and to perhaps check-out the resort. I know we checked out the WL before we ever stayed there---pictures just don't do it justice imho. Disney made a customer with us because we have since touring the grounds, stayed 4 times over the years.

iwaseeyore
02-21-2005, 06:44 PM
3DisneyNUTS,

Can you tell me out of the total SSR budget what per cent DVC members pay as opposed to cash paying guests as opposed to what money would be subsidized from park admittance for SSR Transportation?

Can tell me what scarlett letter you would put on someone who may be breaking rules, which at this point seems to be a lonely local, as opposed to someone visiting the DVC models as opposed to someone with a valid resort ID or multiday park admittance?

My guess is that WDW/DVC and whatever the acronym for the DVC Developer is, know full well what is happening and and set it up that way.

You are asking for something un-enforceable and IMHO not reasonable but I understand you paid your money and you deserve, no demand, what you think is right for you. :rolleyes1

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 06:46 PM
They could show their reservation at the gate or to the bus driver.

what about those shopping or checking out the new resort they were thinking of staying at some time?

Plus they are travelling with guests. I was not suggest completely shutting the busses off to those with good intentions but for pool hoppers or parking fee avoiders don't crowd my stop.

But in essence thats what you are doing is shutting it off for some who have good intentions, how can you differenciate?

It should not be an encouraged transportation hub to DTD. Go to the Ticket and transprotation center like it was in the past.

no it absolutely should not, i completely agree, I would like to see someting done to change it but as it is right now, everyone is free to ride wherever they see fit


maybe the access to DTD should only be able to be accessed by SSR guests or resort guests. If you want to get to the resort to shop, eat, or look around you can take a bus to SSR and a bus out of SSR but if you are not a SSR guest or another resort guest then you can not use the walkway.(i guess it would have to be the boat as well. But who needs to be on this walkway besides SSR guests anyway. i think probably the only others would be te parking fee cheaters

Beca
02-21-2005, 06:52 PM
again not to be rude, but I do own at SSR and completely understand the problem. Thats why I posted earlier about a parking fee at DTD for anyone without a resort ID or some type of AP. that would eliminate alot of the people coming back to their cars at DTD via SSR busses.

then if you wanted to take it a step further have a bus going directly from the parks to DTD. Then almost no one would be taking the SSR bus.

I get the issue, the problem is no one is breaking any rules yet by taking the SSR busses to get to DTD and i dont think restricting non resort guests from using the busses is anywhere near the answer, in fact its so far off from the answer its nuts if you actually think about it.

Well, I think this thread is all about exploring options for a solution. The option you suggest is one solution, but probably not one WDW would enforce because of the perception of DTD businesses that "charging for parking would cut down on revenues".

I think the fear of most people who are posting on here is that WDW will do nothing, busses (which are the only WDW transportation offered at SSR) will be chronically full and will either be miserable to take (not to mention a real hassle), or that SSR will get busses added to it's route to accomodate all of these guests, and that will lead to an increase in dues to fund the "general public", and not SSR guests.

Like I said, I am not an SSR owner...but, it would be very easy for me to "pretend" this could be happening at any of the resorts I own...and, know exactly how I would feel. Our dues are high enough. I have only been an owner for about a year, and already I find myself looking over every price increase in dues from the previous year. If I were an SSR owner, I would be VERY carefully watching the increases in transportation costs over the next few years. Unless DVC does something (either your idea, or one or more of the ideas mentioned by other posters), I could see a time when SSR's dues could creep up to be some of the highest just based on transportation increases alone. DVC is already going to have to provide a staggering number of busses to get so many people so many different places...that transportation cost does not need to be "padded" by anyone using SSR as a "highway" to DTD.

I'm not arguing with you...I think we agree that something needs to be done. It's just a matter of what. To you, your idea seems great. However, I afraid that the businesses at DTD have more pull than the owners of SSR...and, that will never happen. I could be wrong.

:wave:

Beca

jarestel
02-21-2005, 06:53 PM
If Disney wants to boost DTD/PI atendance, they should resume bus service from the parks to DTD and fund it themselves, not rely on SSR owners to pay for it. As it stands right now, NOBODY is going to SSR to shop or eat ( let's not kid ourselves ) so unless one is a guest at SSR, everyone else is hoofing it over to DTD to save a few bucks on parking. This is definitely not the same thing as going to the Boardwalk for an evening's entertainment.

Beca
02-21-2005, 06:57 PM
maybe the access to DTD should only be able to be accessed by SSR guests or resort guests. If you want to get to the resort to shop, eat, or look around you can take a bus to SSR and a bus out of SSR but if you are not a SSR guest or another resort guest then you can not use the walkway.(i guess it would have to be the boat as well. But who needs to be on this walkway besides SSR guests anyway. i think probably the only others would be te parking fee cheaters

That sounds like a REALLY good idea!!! Since I could not get parking at DTD in early Dec., I really don't look forward to going back and trying that again. We might also see people who want to park at SSR and walk to DTD....taking up more parking spaces at SSR. Right now it's REALLY easy to get into SSR. We just told the gate we were going to talk to our guide...no questions asked, we got in. I didn't even think about walking to DTD from there...but, I am sure some people will. The parking spaces nearest the walkway may become a real hot commodity.

:wave:

Beca

STEVEMED
02-21-2005, 06:59 PM
if the price of transportation is put into a multi day ticket ,then why do i have to pay a transportation fee of $95 dollars when trading into DVC via II.Shouldn't this be free because I bought a 5 day pass?

Beca
02-21-2005, 07:02 PM
if the price of transportation is put into a multi day ticket ,then why do i have to pay a transportation fee of $95 dollars when trading into DVC via II.Shouldn't this be free because I bought a 5 day pass?

That is because owners pay twice....once when they buy their park tickets, and once in their yearly dues. And, also...just because WDW CAN charge you that!! ;)


:wave:


Beca

DrBond007
02-21-2005, 07:05 PM
Yep, proximity to DTD is a mixed blessing. I anticipate lots of pool crashing activity as well from DTD hotels and locals given the close parking.

Sorry SSR owners/guest have to deal with it.

iwaseeyore
02-21-2005, 07:07 PM
beca,

Doesn't someone who stays in a Disney Resort and purchases admission pay twice as well?

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 07:07 PM
I think we agree that something needs to be done. It's just a matter of what. To you, your idea seems great. However, I afraid that the businesses at DTD have more pull than the owners of SSR...and, that will never happen. I could be wrong.

:wave:

Beca

absolutely. you are completely correct. i see 4 possible solutions

1) I mean either reduce the amount of people parking at DTD for free by charging thereby eliminating their need to connect via SSR

2) or if you dont want to charge for parking get the busses running directly from DTD to parks thereby cutting out SSR

3) or do not allow non resort guests to use the walkway or boats to DTD

4) WDW subsidizes the transportation costs for SSR and they add more busses

i just cant see not allowing non resort guests on certain busses, its too hard to enforce, patrol, and people probably just wouldnt get it

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 07:12 PM
Yep, proximity to DTD is a mixed blessing. I anticipate lots of pool crashing activity as well from DTD hotels and locals given the close parking.

Sorry SSR owners/guest have to deal with it.

ok then that makes it definate, no non resort guests on the walkway to DTD. i am pretty easy going on vacation and not much bothers me, but that would be about as much as I could bare if i came down to the pool and it was full of locals or off site guests.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 07:19 PM
but that would be about as much as I could bare if i came down to the pool and it was full of locals or off site guests.
I know....I read this happens at Vero Beach quite often. If this becomes a problem for SSR guests/owners down the line, I'd think the CM's would have to check ID's at the pool areas.......and be strict about it like they are at the SAB pool.

Chuck S
02-21-2005, 07:22 PM
I'm trying to figure something out...it used to be that off-site people with multi-day hoppers used transport from park to park, and occasionally went to a resort for a meal or to shop. Using resort busses required showing a resort ID...why did that change and why couldn't they go back to a two-tier system? Park passes or resort ID for inter-park transport. Resort ID, or AP only for use of the resort busses. Now I'm not talking about specific resort IDs, but valid on-site WDW operated resorts...so DVC members could go to WDW resorts and the reverse would be true.

Beca
02-21-2005, 07:27 PM
beca,

Doesn't someone who stays in a Disney Resort and purchases admission pay twice as well?

Yes, I posted that and more on page 5 (post #73) of this thread. Here it is again:

Okay....I have a couple of ideas. Why doesn't WDW:

1) Gate off DTD and go to validation

2) Subsidize the ENTIRE cost of the transportation from park tickets. If those are the people who are "entitled" to use the transportation system. Why not charge accordingly? It seems the way the system is now, offsite guests actually are getting more of a bargain because all onsite guests are charged twice....once from their park tickets, and once from the resort they are staying at (either DVC or WDW). And, then you have the people at the Swan/Dolphin who are being charged a $10 fee up front. I was told that was to cover bus service to those parks. But, aren't people who are going to the parks already paying for the bus service via their park tickets? I am assuming, therefore that the subsidy of transportation may be split between resort fees and park tickets. But, that means that resort guests are being charged twice for something that non-resort guests are getting a lot cheaper.

It doesn't make much sense. I think they should remove the subsidy from the resorts, and up the price of the park tickets...that would be fair if they want to have the usage policy that they do now.

But, that would decrease attendance because it would look so expensive to go to WDW. And, they own it....they make the rules. However, they do need to have some "safeguards" in place for SSR resort guests to get to and from their rooms. Maybe they need to offer a "front of the line" access to anyone showing an SSR room key when boarding. All others can then get on the bus if there is room available. I do think this is a unique situation due to the resort's proximity to DTD...WDW needs to accept this and deal with it.

The fact that this is becoming a problem does shoot a hole in the theory that "DTD is not enough of a destination to make SSR a valuable property" now doesn't it?

:wave:

Beca

sjdisneywedding
02-21-2005, 07:30 PM
I'm trying to figure something out...it used to be that off-site people with multi-day hoppers used transport from park to park, and occasionally went to a resort for a meal or to shop. Using resort busses required showing a resort ID...why did that change and why couldn't they go back to a two-tier system? Park passes or resort ID for inter-park transport. Resort ID, or AP only for use of the resort busses. Now I'm not talking about specific resort IDs, but valid on-site WDW operated resorts...so DVC members could go to WDW resorts and the reverse would be true.

from what i can guess is disney wants EVERYONE to be able to get to the resorts. they want any off site guests to be able to use the busses for visiting the resorts for shopping, eating, previewing for future visits.

obviously SSr has added a twist to everything, but in the past i would assume this was the thinking


maybe Im wrong , but thats my take

Deb & Bill
02-21-2005, 07:35 PM
Okay....I have a couple of ideas. Why doesn't WDW:

1)...

2) ... Maybe they need to offer a "front of the line" access to anyone showing an SSR room key when boarding. All others can then get on the bus if there is room available. I do think this is a unique situation due to the resort's proximity to DTD...WDW needs to accept this and deal with it.

I liked this idea a lot. They should do that with all the resort buses. Only wheelchairs and scooters would have priority over the home resort guests. (you really need to load them first anyway).

Plus if they would gate the walkway from SSR. You can get out (or maybe not), but not back in without a room key. 'Course you would always have people standing around waiting for someone else to open the gate for them ala Vero Beach pool. They could post warning messages for your safety in the SSR resort newpaper about not helping non-resort guests to enter the property illegally.

Also, why don't the cheaters park at the water parks (other than they don't open until a bit later in the AM)?

manning
02-21-2005, 07:38 PM
beca,

Doesn't someone who stays in a Disney Resort and purchases admission pay twice as well?


Don't hold me to this but I think at one time when you bought park tickets at the resorts and presented your room key you got a small discount. This discount reflected the transportation fee.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 07:43 PM
from what i can guess is disney wants EVERYONE to be able to get to the resorts. they want any off site guests to be able to use the busses for visiting the resorts for shopping, eating, previewing for future visits.
Many times, when making PS at hotel restaurants, I've been asked on the phone by the CM, "which resort are you staying at". When I stated "Vistana" and proceeded to ask for directions to the hotel it was actually suggested to me that I could utilize WDW transportation system if I had a valid Hopper. Now this is going back 6-7 years. I don't know if they still do this because I've had no need to ask for directions for a very long time now. But I think offsite guests are welcomed and encouraged by Disney. I've never gotten a snooty attitude or a CM unwilling to assist me when they found out I was an offsite guest. Here's an example : In '95 (I believe), we had Hoop De Doo ressies while staying at Vistana. The CM told me on the phone exactly how to get from the MK to Ft Wilderness using disney transportation.

MiaSRN62
02-21-2005, 07:50 PM
Also, why don't the cheaters park at the water parks (other than they don't open until a bit later in the AM)?
Because they close earlier than the parks and it would be difficult if not impossible for these people to get back to their cars, I'd think.

goldilocks_63
02-21-2005, 08:05 PM
Screeching breaks, noisy..... We prefer the electric ones, cause they're more quiet.

Offtopic, but we think that going to multiple parks in a day is almost a waste, unless you can drive, walk, or monorail it, cause the transportation system is so slow.

We thought it was designed this way as part of crowd control. (ie if you make it hard for people to move around, then they are kind of a captive audience;) )

Goldi

DrTomorrow
02-21-2005, 08:47 PM
I've got a question, and I hereby invoke my "I'm an SSR owner" privileges ;) :

What, exactly, is the problem that everyone's trying to find a solution for? It can't be simply that folks leaving a park and heading to DTD are told to use the SSR bus, because as long as everyone gets a seat, I don't care where what my fellow riders' destination is. It can't be that folks other than guests at WDW resorts are using the bus, because according to their admission media, they're allowed to do that. It can't be that non-resort guests are going to resorts, because you can be darned sure that Disney wants as much of that happening as possible. So, has anyone experienced an actual problem caused solely by non-SSR/non-WDW resort guests riding the SSR bus? If so, I'd love to hear the details; otherwise, it just seems like everyone is worried about solving a problem that hasn't yet manifested itself.

Once again, I was one of the first to raise this issue last May as a possible future issue; so far, not only has it NOT been a problem, there were times that I wish that a dozen or so DTD-bound riders had been with us at the stop to SSR at MK and AK - it might have made Dispatch send a bus a little sooner than if just DW and I were waiting (over 40 minutes, while every other resort bus came a went, some multiple times).

Hey, I appreciate a pro-active atitude - an ounce of prevention and all that - but so far all I've seen is either people worried that it "may become a problem in the future" or people with an (IMHO very unfortunate) "if they ain't resort guests keep them outta my resort" attitude. Yeesh, people - this is Disney World; does the desire for everyone to have a good time stop at your DVC property line?

IMHO - YMMV

ErinC
02-21-2005, 09:09 PM
I've got a question, and I hereby invoke my "I'm an SSR owner" privileges ;) :

What, exactly, is the problem that everyone's trying to find a solution for? It can't be simply that folks leaving a park and heading to DTD are told to use the SSR bus, because as long as everyone gets a seat, I don't care where what my fellow riders' destination is. itself.


IMHO - YMMV

Thats just it, You won't get a seat! A couple of evenings there was standing room only on the bus. Are you going to be happy to wait for all those heading to DD to take the 1st bus, while you wait for another bus to come as an SSR guest? I certainly wouldn't. If there was standing room only on the SSR bus with only Congress Park open, what's it going to be like with the Springs and Paddock buildings added? Hey, I don't own at SSR, but I sure don't want my dues to continue to rise, due to the need of increased bussing, so that everyone that wants to get to DD has a ride. They need to tell these folks to go to the Ticket center, and have DD busses there. JMHO!

Beca
02-21-2005, 09:15 PM
I've got a question, and I hereby invoke my "I'm an SSR owner" privileges ;) :

What, exactly, is the problem that everyone's trying to find a solution for? It can't be simply that folks leaving a park and heading to DTD are told to use the SSR bus, because as long as everyone gets a seat, I don't care where what my fellow riders' destination is. It can't be that folks other than guests at WDW resorts are using the bus, because according to their admission media, they're allowed to do that. It can't be that non-resort guests are going to resorts, because you can be darned sure that Disney wants as much of that happening as possible. So, has anyone experienced an actual problem caused solely by non-SSR/non-WDW resort guests riding the SSR bus? If so, I'd love to hear the details; otherwise, it just seems like everyone is worried about solving a problem that hasn't yet manifested itself.

Once again, I was one of the first to raise this issue last May as a possible future issue; so far, not only has it NOT been a problem, there were times that I wish that a dozen or so DTD-bound riders had been with us at the stop to SSR at MK and AK - it might have made Dispatch send a bus a little sooner than if just DW and I were waiting (over 40 minutes, while every other resort bus came a went, some multiple times).

Hey, I appreciate a pro-active atitude - an ounce of prevention and all that - but so far all I've seen is either people worried that it "may become a problem in the future" or people with an (IMHO very unfortunate) "if they ain't resort guests keep them outta my resort" attitude. Yeesh, people - this is Disney World; does the desire for everyone to have a good time stop at your DVC property line?

IMHO - YMMV

I would be concerned about my dues going up to cover the additional traffic thru the resort. Once completed, either your busses will be extremely crowded, or WDW will have to assign more busses to SSR ...at your cost.

I, personally don't like the idea that any DVC resort (and its owners) are being taken advantage of by WDW...and that is what is going on here. DTD shop owners, and WDW are benefitting by this foot traffic....SSR owners are not.

If the BWV owner had not sat down to figure out that BWV was being "overcharged" for transportation...BWV owners would STILL be overcharged. I am so happy they did that!!

SSR is "breaking new ground" for DVC....it is the only 100% DVC resort that is attached to a "destination location". That means that SSR owners are covering the unsubsidized (by WDW) transportation costs by themselves...and there are no benefits for them of this traffic. I am upset about this, and I do not pay dues there!!! I think WDW needs to ensure that they are covering their costs, and let DVC owners cover theirs. But, if WDW has to add busses to SSR to cover all of this traffic, SSR owners will be unfairly subsidizing the WDW bus system. I don't think I, as a DVC owner ought to have to pay a penny to shuttle non-DVC members anywhere. I KNOW it is a small amount....but even $1 per year X 30,000 members is $30,000 more dollars that WDW is saving because of the inequities in the way the transportation system is handled. I personally think that if it is okay with WDW if people use SSR as a "walkway" to and from DTD (and utilize the WDW bus system to do so), that WDW ought to pick up a larger percentage of the transportation costs of SSR....owners should NOT be doing so.

:wave:

Beca

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 09:18 PM
3DisneyNUTS,

Can you tell me out of the total SSR budget what per cent DVC members pay as opposed to cash paying guests as opposed to what money would be subsidized from park admittance for SSR Transportation?

Can tell me what scarlett letter you would put on someone who may be breaking rules, which at this point seems to be a lonely local, as opposed to someone visiting the DVC models as opposed to someone with a valid resort ID or multiday park admittance?

My guess is that WDW/DVC and whatever the acronym for the DVC Developer is, know full well what is happening and and set it up that way.

You are asking for something un-enforceable and IMHO not reasonable but I understand you paid your money and you deserve, no demand, what you think is right for you. :rolleyes1

I would expect that people abusing the bus system to not pay parking fees or staying at a non DVCwdw resort not be ENCOURAGED by Cast members to us the Congress Park bus stop as a go anywhere terminal. When I have my sleepy son in my arms with no where to sit because someone was too cheap to pay for parking or chose to stay offsite why should they get my seat? Roll you eyes all you want but I would at least expect people not to condone those who are scamming the "system" Find any loophole you would like it doesn't mean since it is there people are entitled to it. I pay dues to have a seat on the bus. If fellow SSRs beat me to it, be my guest, but don't tell me someone staying offsite should be able to walk from DTD and take up seats on the bus without me getting upset. I pay to use the bus and it looks like I paid twice since I have a PAP too.

DrBond007
02-21-2005, 09:29 PM
ok then that makes it definate, no non resort guests on the walkway to DTD. i am pretty easy going on vacation and not much bothers me, but that would be about as much as I could bare if i came down to the pool and it was full of locals or off site guests.
You may have to get used to it. Vero sure has a problem with it. I think it is one of the inherent dissadvantages of SSR. I don't condone it, but it is predictable.
:dancer:

3DisneyNUTS
02-21-2005, 09:33 PM
I've got a question, and I hereby invoke my "I'm an SSR owner" privileges ;) :

What, exactly, is the problem that everyone's trying to find a solution for? It can't be simply that folks leaving a park and heading to DTD are told to use the SSR bus, because as long as everyone gets a seat, I don't care where what my fellow riders' destination is. It can't be that folks other than guests at WDW resorts are using the bus, because according to their admission media, they're allowed to do that. It can't be that non-resort guests are going to resorts, because you can be darned sure that Disney wants as much of that happening as possible. So, has anyone experienced an actual problem caused solely by non-SSR/non-WDW resort guests riding the SSR bus? If so, I'd love to hear the details; otherwise, it just seems like everyone is worried about solving a problem that hasn't yet manifested itself.

Once again, I was one of the first to raise this issue last May as a possible future issue; so far, not only has it NOT been a problem, there were times that I wish that a dozen or so DTD-bound riders had been with us at the stop to SSR at MK and AK - it might have made Dispatch send a bus a little sooner than if just DW and I were waiting (over 40 minutes, while every other resort bus came a went, some multiple times).

Hey, I appreciate a pro-active atitude - an ounce of prevention and all that - but so far all I've seen is either people worried that it "may become a problem in the future" or people with an (IMHO very unfortunate) "if they ain't resort guests keep them outta my resort" attitude. Yeesh, people - this is Disney World; does the desire for everyone to have a good time stop at your DVC property line?

IMHO - YMMV


Well yes I would consider our encounter a problem. The last woman in the OP I wrote was quite annoying yelling at her husband making it intolerable sitting at the bus stop waiting for the bus with this woman shrilling how she needed a cab, there was no shuttle and how she couldn't walk but then walked over to the leisure pool in search of a bathroom and a phone then back. It was not very magical and most everyone at the stop waiting for their busses found it quite annoying especially after every attempt to help her was returned with a negative comment. Followed by more yelling at her DH and kids.

So magnify this when the resort is complete and make the area much more crowded and fill up the buses from the other stops and thankfully we were not awaiting the DTD bus because we would have been subjected to this for the ride there I am sure. So yes I have encountered a problem from it and hopefully this will not be a repeat event at the bus stop /pool over there. Especially with the pool so close to the walkway.

JMC
02-21-2005, 10:54 PM
In general I agree with DrTomorrow- in that WDW would be quite happy with the free adverstisement of having non-resort guests driving through the on-site resorts while utilizing the WDW bus system.

And, I KNOW I will be frustrated one day after waiting too long for an SSR bus and resentfully pass the time trying to figure out which of my fellow riders is actually just a DTD parker and not an SSR guest. But, in the end, when we get off that bus we're heading to our cozy room while others are trekking to the parking lot of DTD- so for me it all evens out.

What DOES concern me is that non-resort guests can easily access a resort area at any time the buses are runing- i.e. late into the night. Additionally, SSR is only a short walk from DTD- which I'm certain serves more alchohol on the average day than all the parks combined. So can some random person have a few too many and then wander over to SSR, where the unit's doors open directly to the outside?

Is the walkway between DTD and SSR monitored or closed after hours?

DrBond007
02-21-2005, 11:06 PM
....What DOES concern me is that non-resort guests can easily access a resort area at any time the buses are runing- i.e. late into the night. Additionally, SSR is only a short walk from DTD- which I'm certain serves more alchohol on the average day than all the parks combined. So can some random person have a few too many and then wander over to SSR, where the unit's doors open directly to the outside?

Is the walkway between DTD and SSR monitored or closed after hours?


Well, I think you have legitimate reasons to be concerned. I understand Dr. Tommorrow's points, but I think those views are so yesterday....

Frankly, the proximity caused us to shy away from SSR as a purchase. But that's just us, I can see why others like a nice boatride home from pleasure island.

manning
02-21-2005, 11:12 PM
Maybe someday the walkway will be closed. But it won't until holy hell is raised with management.

What I'm reading here that won't be happening soon. Too much rationalization going on.

DrTomorrow
02-21-2005, 11:14 PM
Well yes I would consider our encounter a problem. The last woman in the OP I wrote was quite annoying yelling at her husband making it intolerable sitting at the bus stop waiting for the bus with this woman shrilling how she needed a cab, there was no shuttle and how she couldn't walk but then walked over to the leisure pool in search of a bathroom and a phone then back. It was not very magical and most everyone at the stop waiting for their busses found it quite annoying especially after every attempt to help her was returned with a negative comment. Followed by more yelling at her DH and kids. [...] While your experience was unfortunate, it has nothing to do with any SSR bus issues; I assure you that I've run into rude people almost everywhere at WDW, from all "classes" of WDW guest (one of the most disturbing was while we were at the Polynesian Concierge, and someone was complaining that they only had 5 different types of liqueurs available....). Disney relies on mass transit, which is just that - transit for the masses. DVC owners must mix with folks from other DVC resorts and even ::gasp:: off-site visitors. If the big complaint is that you want to avoid running into rude, "non-magical" people, then I'm sorry to let you know, but restricting SSR bus service to resort guests - or just to SSR owners - won't do the trick.

I'll say farewell to this thread now, as it's taking quite a disturbing turn. While I totally understand the need to restrict resort amenities (SAB is the best example) to resort guests, to say that only people who pay dues at a DVC resort should be able to ride that resort's buses is just plain wrong. If this keeps up, I know I'll someday see an SSR owner screaming at a bus driver, "I pay your salary!" Talk about non-magical :confused3

IMHO - YMMV - TTFN

TDC Nala
02-21-2005, 11:25 PM
Not everybody is doing this to avoid parking fees. You might also have me on the bus - a Disney resort guest without a car who is trying to get from a theme park to Pleasure Island. The only way to do that, absent direct buses from the parks to DTD, is to transfer at a resort.

I have done this, riding from MGM to SSR because I wanted to see the resort; I then took the boat from SSR to DTD in order to eat and go to PI. I'd probably take the SSR bus again, because it's possible to walk from SSR to the West Side and that would save time over catching another bus.

How would the SSR owners keep me off their bus?

DrBond007
02-21-2005, 11:27 PM
I'll say farewell to this thread now......

Ya, me too, not for the same reason, but probably time to go....

:dancer:

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 12:35 AM
While your experience was unfortunate, it has nothing to do with any SSR bus issues; I assure you that I've run into rude people almost everywhere at WDW, from all "classes" of WDW guest (one of the most disturbing was while we were at the Polynesian Concierge, and someone was complaining that they only had 5 different types of liqueurs available....). Disney relies on mass transit, which is just that - transit for the masses. DVC owners must mix with folks from other DVC resorts and even ::gasp:: off-site visitors. If the big complaint is that you want to avoid running into rude, "non-magical" people, then I'm sorry to let you know, but restricting SSR bus service to resort guests - or just to SSR owners - won't do the trick.

I'll say farewell to this thread now, as it's taking quite a disturbing turn. While I totally understand the need to restrict resort amenities (SAB is the best example) to resort guests, to say that only people who pay dues at a DVC resort should be able to ride that resort's buses is just plain wrong. If this keeps up, I know I'll someday see an SSR owner screaming at a bus driver, "I pay your salary!" Talk about non-magical :confused3

IMHO - YMMV - TTFN


No what I have been saying is that people who intend on using the buses they way they are supposed to and not to avoid parking or as a gateway to an offsite hotel. I think show proper id or reservation, what have you, is enough. But just allowing it to be an open and encouraged hub to DTD is just wrong for people who do not even intend on visiting SSR. Why take the seat away from thos staying, eating shopping etc just to save on parking or catch a ride to their cars? What is disturbing about this? It doesn't disturb you that this is a loophole that will most definitely get exploited? I don't want to have to stand on a bus because people decide it is a way out of paying to park. I also hope it doesn't act as an unintentional invite for pool hoppers to take a dip in the pool then bus it out of there or use the path.

For matter of discussion in the begining I brought up asking for resort ID's not knowing it is an included perk for park hopper tickets. AFter I learned of that I changed my position saying that any id (that proves entitlement to the buses) would do. I also added reservations for a restaurant or use of the facilities etc. But to avoid to pay to park or a way back to an offsite resort is not what I think is the intended use of the bus system and should not be encouraged by CMs.

You also asked for a problem and I have encountered one not because of a rude person but because of a person who was told she would be able to get to the hilton from that bus stop. It was a bus issue. How do I know if she is rude in a regular capacity? I don't but in that situation because of the buses it was an uncomfortable environment for the SSR guests waiting and probably for the screaming woman too. I could not say if she is rude in other situations all I saw was the bus situation.

fmed845
02-22-2005, 12:51 AM
I own at SSR and don't have a problem with people using the bus to walk to DTD if they are staying at another Disney resort. I use other resort buses to visit resorts to go to dinner. I do have a problem :sad2: with the use to go to DTD because thats where they parked or to go to an off-site resort. While I was there in Dec a group of 5 got off the bus at SSR and asked the bus driver where the walkway was to DTD so they could get back to their hotel.

Sammie
02-22-2005, 12:54 AM
ok then that makes it definate, no non resort guests on the walkway to DTD. i am pretty easy going on vacation and not much bothers me, but that would be about as much as I could bare if i came down to the pool and it was full of locals or off site guests.

Don't go there or you will have to join the rest of us Pool Hopper Police. ;)

I find it interesting that some can take 2 issues, abuse of pools by those not staying there or paying for that use, and people overcrowding a bus to avoid paying a parking fee and some will never see that bascially they are the same issue.

I guess it depends which forum you post it on. :)

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 01:03 AM
Don't go there or you will have to join the rest of us Pool Hopper Police. ;)

I find it interesting that some can take 2 issues, abuse of pools by those not staying there or paying for that use, and people overcrowding a bus to avoid paying a parking fee and some will never see that bascially they are the same issue.

I guess it depends which forum you post it on. :)

I agree. They are the same issue. Using something that you are not entitled to because you can get over on it.

NMW
02-22-2005, 07:39 AM
Why can't they just charge for parking at DTD? I don't understand why this can't be done. It would stop people from using DTD for "free parking" wouldn't it?

CarolMN
02-22-2005, 07:55 AM
Why can't they just charge for parking at DTD? I don't understand why this can't be done. It would stop people from using DTD for "free parking" wouldn't it?Because a parking fee would discourage people from shopping/eating/clubbing there - it's not just vacationers who frequent DD/PI/West Side.

Since there is no direct bus service between DD and the parks, stopping the relatively small number of off site guests who park at DD to avoid the fee cannot possibly be worth the hassle/bad PR that charging to park at DD would create.

Best wishes -

spiceycat
02-22-2005, 08:44 AM
I though someone say earlier that there is a $2 fee for parking at DD now???

when SSR first opened - the hotel across the street was actually sending their guest to ride the buses at SSR - WDW stopped most of this practice - but it is hard to control individual people.

maybe their should be a gate at the walkway to DD than only a SSR ID could open???? but lots of us OKW walk in this area and that would make me mad.

I think WDW stopped checking ID - because of the unofficial guide - who told people to use it anyway...it was included with their tickets.

I am sorry this happened to you - but I think it will become a bigger problem.

SSR is a very attractive resort - people will come by to see it - and then they find the WDW resorts buses. hey if you are staying at a DD hotel the WDW resort buses are much, much better.

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 09:08 AM
Don't go there or you will have to join the rest of us Pool Hopper Police. ;)

I find it interesting that some can take 2 issues, abuse of pools by those not staying there or paying for that use, and people overcrowding a bus to avoid paying a parking fee and some will never see that bascially they are the same issue.

I guess it depends which forum you post it on. :)

they are not the same thing, not by a long shot. Off site guests are not allowed to use SSR facilities, period! T

hey are completely free to use SSR busses(or any other busses for that matter) under te current rules, if they have a valid pass. Is this right, no, but its not a deliberate breaking of the rules.

its 2 totally separate issues

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 09:11 AM
I agree. They are the same issue. Using something that you are not entitled to because you can get over on it.

MY goodness please read the following out loud:

THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FULL USE OF THE DISNEY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM with a valid park pass. What is so difficult to grasp about that?

again its not right because some can take advantage of it, but those are the rules!

senecabeach
02-22-2005, 09:14 AM
Amazing how this thread has grown, especially over things we can't, and have no business, trying to control. :rotfl2:

Buses are for "anyone" who chooses to visit the Magical World of Disney ...period.

IMHO... Lets turn this around and get "Free" parking in the parks !!!!!! :rotfl:

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 09:16 AM
Because a parking fee would discourage people from shopping/eating/clubbing there - it's not just vacationers who frequent DD/PI/West Side.

Since there is no direct bus service between DD and the parks, stopping the relatively small number of off site guests who park at DD to avoid the fee cannot possibly be worth the hassle/bad PR that charging to park at DD would create.

Best wishes -


simple solution, all resort guest, AP holders of DQ, PI, or parks get in for free, and stop charging in the evening. no one is parking at DTD in the evening to go to a park, or definately not as many.

if you think theres tat many off site soppers during the afternonn ten just forget the evening feeremoval and validate the parking fees with a small dollar amout for purchases and there you go, all AP's no worries, all night time guests no fees, all shoppers no fees, all resort guests no fees, all diners no fees, all parking fee cheaters-park at the parks like everyone else.

athenna
02-22-2005, 09:21 AM
IMO-the bottom line (for me anyway) is 1) I don't want to wait an hour for a bus because people that aren't staying at WDW are using SSR to get around and it's causing delays but it's not going to ruin my vacation by any means.
2) security is a good point. It's unfortunate in this day and age we have to worry about that, but we do. But I'm not going to let this stress me out, or have bad feelings about SSR.

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 09:23 AM
I though someone say earlier that there is a $2 fee for parking at DD now???

when SSR first opened - the hotel across the street was actually sending their guest to ride the buses at SSR - WDW stopped most of this practice - but it is hard to control individual people.

maybe their should be a gate at the walkway to DD than only a SSR ID could open???? but lots of us OKW walk in this area and that would make me mad.

I think WDW stopped checking ID - because of the unofficial guide - who told people to use it anyway...it was included with their tickets.

I am sorry this happened to you - but I think it will become a bigger problem.

SSR is a very attractive resort - people will come by to see it - and then they find the WDW resorts buses. hey if you are staying at a DD hotel the WDW resort buses are much, much better.


actually you could leave the walkway open for all WDW resort guests, you would just ave to omit the off site visitors. I dont think anyone from an on site resort would be parking at DTD to get to park wen tey could just drive to the park directly.

There would be some resort guests coming to DTD via SSR but i think thats fine

more importantly, closing that walkway down to where only on site guests have access, means less problems with stragglers from DTD late at night and less problems with off site guests having access to the SSR pools and so forth

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 10:00 AM
MY goodness please read the following out loud:

THEY ARE ENTITLED TO FULL USE OF THE DISNEY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM with a valid park pass. What is so difficult to grasp about that?

again its not right because some can take advantage of it, but those are the rules!

Are you completely missing my point? I am not concerned about people using it for valid reasons. My concern is that people who want to avoid parking fees or transfer to their offsite hotel. I am worried about CMs telling people to use SSR's congress parks bus stop like the TTC. The stop is small like the average resort bus stop. It cannot handle the influx of extra guests when the resort is at full capacity. Why should I have to stand when someone is too cheap to pay the $8 and be encouraged by CMs no less?

Beca
02-22-2005, 10:04 AM
more importantly, closing that walkway down to where only on site guests have access, means less problems with stragglers from DTD late at night and less problems with off site guests having access to the SSR pools and so forth

Yeah, and less problems from anyone who is too drunk to get the key in the gate!! :rotfl: I can just SEE the drunks not being able to do that!!!

:rotfl2:

Beca

Beca
02-22-2005, 10:28 AM
Are you completely missing my point? I am not concerned about people using it for valid reasons. My concern is that people who want to avoid parking fees or transfer to their offsite hotel. I am worried about CMs telling people to use SSR's congress parks bus stop like the TTC. The stop is small like the average resort bus stop. It cannot handle the influx of extra guests when the resort is at full capacity. Why should I have to stand when someone is too cheap to pay the $8 and be encouraged by CMs no less?

I think what other people are saying is that once you have a park ticket, any use of the bus system can be interpreted as valid. Once you have a park ticket...there are NO restrictions on the way you can use it. There are signs, saying parking in resorts or DTD is for the use of those facilities only. I think what other posters are saying is, that parking in those lots to go to a park is wrong, but utilizing the bus transportation system to go to and from that illegal spot is not.

Theoretically, anyone holding a park ticket can go anywhere, at anytime on any bus. This goes for people who park at the BWV, BCV, Contemporary, Poly, or GF as well. Their PARKING is illegal, their bus riding is not. Why? Because WDW has not defined it as such. If WDW would come out with a clause that says, "Riding the bus to get to a parking lot that you are illegally using is illegal"....then, there are some posters on this thread who would agree with you. You have made the (not altogether crazy assumption) that riding a bus to get to an illegal parking lot is illegal. What are you thinking??!! That has WAY to much common sense!!! ;)

So, in essence...both sides are right. You are right in spirit, they are right in "letter". My point is a third one. Why should SSR dues go to fund this "illegal" or "illegal in spirit" activity? On busy days, you cannot get into the Contemporary parking lot without a PS, guest room key, or impending reservation. Why? Obviously, to protect the guests who have paid good money to stay there. Something needs to be done for the benefit of SSR guests as well. And, they absolutely should not pay extra in "transportation fees" to accomodate all of these people who do this.

I agree that parking at DTD at night to go to the parks is not a problem. So, maybe there SHOULD be a "free parking after 5" thing, and DTD should charge for parking before that. I don't think it is likely to happen. Why? I think it once again comes back to the fact that we are a "captive" audience at WDW. We own there, and will be coming back again and again....so, WDW doesn't have to care if we are inconvenienced by the crowds. And, unlike the Contemporary, people are not parking at SSR, but are using an alternate lot. In WDW's eyes, it is no different than people parking at the Swan/Dolphin to go to the parks. But, notice that the Swan/Dolphin are putting an end to that practice!!! (And, really when you think about it...S/D people are not USING the transporation, they are probably just walking).

All I am saying is this....if it bothers SSR owners, they better raise a BIG fuss because nothing will be done about it unless they do. It seems to me that while the resort is being sold, a lot of people could park at SSR as easily (or, even more easily) as DTD to go to the parks for free...it is really easy to drive into SSR right now.

I think I am going to "sign off" of this thread, too. People are just saying the same things over and over again....and, no one seems to be acknowledging others' opinions. It doesn't matter in the big picture to me...I don't own at SSR, I don't plan ever to own at SSR, and unless it is the only resort available...don't even plan to stay there. But, if I did...we would have a car...so, I guess "illegal parkers" at DTD could have my spot on the bus.

But, if it were my home resort, and my money...I'd care....a lot!!

:wave:

Beca

sarhenty
02-22-2005, 10:36 AM
Maybe they need to offer a "front of the line" access to anyone showing an SSR room key when boarding. All others can then get on the bus if there is room available.

Beca

Not to back track but this is really a GREAT IDEA! A separate queue too if necessary. One cannot imagine how BIG SSR will become in the next couple of years. This system can be implemented with other resorts as well, again, only if necessary (i.e. Boardwalk, Swan&Dolphin). It will fix the problem of SSR guests getting a seat which they rightfully deserve as opposed to someone that maybe taking advantage. This way Disney will be satisfying both parties and enticing non-SSR guests to stay on property next time. JMHO

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 11:04 AM
I think what other people are saying is that once you have a park ticket, any use of the bus system can be interpreted as valid. Once you have a park ticket...there are NO restrictions on the way you can use it. There are signs, saying parking in resorts or DTD is for the use of those facilities only. I think what other posters are saying is, that parking in those lots to go to a park is wrong, but utilizing the bus transportation system to go to and from that illegal spot is not.

Theoretically, anyone holding a park ticket can go anywhere, at anytime on any bus. This goes for people who park at the BWV, BCV, Contemporary, Poly, or GF as well. Their PARKING is illegal, their bus riding is not. Why? Because WDW has not defined it as such. If WDW would come out with a clause that says, "Riding the bus to get to a parking lot that you are illegally using is illegal"....then, there are some posters on this thread who would agree with you. You have made the (not altogether crazy assumption) that riding a bus to get to an illegal parking lot is illegal. What are you thinking??!! That has WAY to much common sense!!! ;)

So, in essence...both sides are right. You are right in spirit, they are right in "letter". My point is a third one. Why should SSR dues go to fund this "illegal" or "illegal in spirit" activity? On busy days, you cannot get into the Contemporary parking lot without a PS, guest room key, or impending reservation. Why? Obviously, to protect the guests who have paid good money to stay there. Something needs to be done for the benefit of SSR guests as well. And, they absolutely should not pay extra in "transportation fees" to accomodate all of these people who do this.

I agree that parking at DTD at night to go to the parks is not a problem. So, maybe there SHOULD be a "free parking after 5" thing, and DTD should charge for parking before that. I don't think it is likely to happen. Why? I think it once again comes back to the fact that we are a "captive" audience at WDW. We own there, and will be coming back again and again....so, WDW doesn't have to care if we are inconvenienced by the crowds. And, unlike the Contemporary, people are not parking at SSR, but are using an alternate lot. In WDW's eyes, it is no different than people parking at the Swan/Dolphin to go to the parks. But, notice that the Swan/Dolphin are putting an end to that practice!!! (And, really when you think about it...S/D people are not USING the transporation, they are probably just walking).

All I am saying is this....if it bothers SSR owners, they better raise a BIG fuss because nothing will be done about it unless they do. It seems to me that while the resort is being sold, a lot of people could park at SSR as easily (or, even more easily) as DTD to go to the parks for free...it is really easy to drive into SSR right now.

I think I am going to "sign off" of this thread, too. People are just saying the same things over and over again....and, no one seems to be acknowledging others' opinions. It doesn't matter in the big picture to me...I don't own at SSR, I don't plan ever to own at SSR, and unless it is the only resort available...don't even plan to stay there. But, if I did...we would have a car...so, I guess "illegal parkers" at DTD could have my spot on the bus.

But, if it were my home resort, and my money...I'd care....a lot!!

:wave:

Beca


Right but this is where the technicalities come in. Just because you can get away with something as a loophole doesn't mean you should do it. It is the same vain as the occupancy threads. Just because you can get away with it and in most cases Cms encourage that too does it mean it is ok? Does it mean that I don't have the right to voice my opinion that people are using the SSR Cp bus stop as their way to avoid parking fees? Should I take the position that 'hey they are entitled because they have a ticket' and if they scam the system I should be ok with it when my family will be the ones left without a seat or with long lines?

I mean even 5 in a studio doesn't impact the bus like 5 hopping over from DTD and clogging up the bus.

Maybe if people didn't sit idly by and let others take advantage of something then Disney would be quicker at finding a solution. I am sure that if enough SSR owners find the situation out of hand and say something about it then they hopefully will do something about it.

I mean it definitely should not be an encouraged method to get back to DTD. I know I have asked this before but are there still busses that run from DTD to TTC and vice versa? If so why aren't people being encouraged to go that route?

helenk
02-22-2005, 11:25 AM
You can not get to DTD from the TTC. Disney does that because, parking at DTD is free, if they allowed you to go to the TTC from DTD then they would not get the $8.00 parking fee from guests parking at the the TTC. People would park at DTD ride to the TTC and then to any park from there.

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 11:26 AM
You can not get to DTD from the TTC. Disney does that because, parking at DTD is free, if they allowed you to go to the TTC from DTD then they would not get the $8.00 parking fee from guests parking at the the TTC. People would park at DTD ride to the TTC and then to any park from there.

So that is why SSR is going to be the new free TTC then for DTD and all the parks. UGH!

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Are you completely missing my point? I am not concerned about people using it for valid reasons. My concern is that people who want to avoid parking fees or transfer to their offsite hotel. I am worried about CMs telling people to use SSR's congress parks bus stop like the TTC. The stop is small like the average resort bus stop. It cannot handle the influx of extra guests when the resort is at full capacity. Why should I have to stand when someone is too cheap to pay the $8 and be encouraged by CMs no less?


I absolsutely 100% understand and agree if you can believe that. My point is you cant compare off site guests using SSRs' pool to people cheating the system of parking fees and riding the busses.

I dont want them doing this any more that you do, but theres is no way possible to differentiate between parking cheaters and those who are on the busses for legit reasons. The way its set up leads to alot of people possibly using SSR busses, alot of them doing it legally

under no circumstance should any off site guest be lounging around the SSR pool

2 separate issues

pkgman
02-22-2005, 11:45 AM
We just recently bought at SSR. I do not want this to be a problem that I think it could be.
Could a SSR member post the transportation cost per point for the past year? If I recall right there is approximately 12 million points avaible eventually at SSR. That would amount to $120k for eaach penny of dues.
Also, there is only four building currently open. If there is going be 18 building then slightly less than 1/4 of the buliding are open. That would work out to approximately 200 room with estimate of 4 people per room (maybe less for studio and more for 2 BR).
My question would be how many people are riding SSR busses vs. number of guests staying at SSR. If those numbers are drastically different then I would say we have a problem.
I will say to anyone that if those numbers were off by a better than 2 to 1 margin, I would have a problem with it. If Disney or DTD shops are gaining by getting foot traffic than they should be paying for it.
Sadly, the only reason for separating out transportation cost is to make each division look better or worse on paper.

Doctor P
02-22-2005, 11:57 AM
I understand the complaints, but the more I think about it the more I don't think I have a problem with it (I know that that might seem odd given my thoughts about other rules). Though it is not the intended way to do things, I'm not sure that any rule is being broken (if you at least have a multi-day ticket), nor do I necessarily think that the spirit of the rule is probably being abused too severely. Here is my thought: 1) If the person is staying at a Disney resort or has a multi-day ticket that gives access to the Disney transportation, then they are entitled to use the buses as they wish; 2) Using the bus to SSR to get to DTD is not a particularly convenient way to get to DTD or to get to one's car or back to a DTD hotel--at minimum it requires a decent walk, at maximum it could be a very long walk (through DTD) to one's car; 3) people that visit SSR via the bus are likely more likely to buy after having seen the resort (as opposed to having not seen the resort) so I think that would be an argument to not discourage the possibility); 4) there are lots of other cases where this happens with the WDW transportation system and they have not proven to be a huge issue (riding to BCV to go to the World Showcase at Epcot, riding to Contemporary or a monorail resort to go to MK, riding to BW to go to MGM); 5) I don't think most people will really try to save $8 by going through the hassle of parking at DTD, and if they do I will bet that many of them end up spending money at DTD anyway. If it were a major problem for DTD during the day, I think there would be more policing of it but generally DTD is pretty empty as far as parking during the day and it can be quite a walk to the bus stops. It's a hassle to park at DTD to go to the parks, so I think that is really enough disincentive that most people won't do it.

Doctor P
02-22-2005, 11:59 AM
Should people not be able to ride to BWI/BWV, BC/YC to go to the Boardwalk entertainment area? It's the same issue.

sarhenty
02-22-2005, 12:10 PM
I absolsutely 100% understand and agree if you can believe that. My point is you cant compare off site guests using SSRs' pool to people cheating the system of parking fees and riding the busses.

I dont want them doing this any more that you do, but theres is no way possible to differentiate between parking cheaters and those who are on the busses for legit reasons. The way its set up leads to alot of people possibly using SSR busses, alot of them doing it legally

under no circumstance should any off site guest be lounging around the SSR pool

2 separate issues

but actually there is a way you can differentiate: by checking room keys...
but I also understand that its also a big pain in the rear for Disney....

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 12:16 PM
Should people not be able to ride to BWI/BWV, BC/YC to go to the Boardwalk entertainment area? It's the same issue.
Yes but BW BC benefit from that. There is nothing to sell at the Congress Park bus stop. The preview center is not even close to that stop the stores and Artist Palette are in the complete opposite direction of DTD. All I can see it as being is extra foot traffic. The only positive that could be is that people not sure of where to go will wander to the waterview area and see that awesome view and want to stay there. BUT at 12am when they are tired and dragging kids back to their cars I don't think it would be of any interest for them to stop and smell the roses.

Hopefully my concerns are for nothing and hopefully what I saw this past week will be a rarity. But honestly if we see over congestion for that stop it will cause problems for everyone at every bus stop on the SSR line in the future. It could prevent people for getting seats on the first bus back. Make the wait for a bus longer when parks are closing. It could be a negative if it is continually encouraged. I hope that Disney has worked out the worst case scenario with this before they allowed the CMs to encourage that option.

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 12:19 PM
but actually there is a way you can differentiate: by checking room keys...
but I also understand that its also a big pain in the rear for Disney....

no not currently, because any ticket holder is also entitled to full use of the transportations systems.

so Disney would have to make a new set of rules, I dont think having certain busses for resort guests and others for park guests is too great of an idea, too much confusion

tjkraz
02-22-2005, 12:22 PM
We just recently bought at SSR. I do not want this to be a problem that I think it could be.
Could a SSR member post the transportation cost per point for the past year?

The 2005 budget indicates $1.4mil for transportation. With a basis of 309 units, the cost is nearly $.30 per point, or 8% of our total dues.

I still think the best solution is for Disney to run direct service fom the theme parks to DTD after 6pm. Lack of service in the am is a deterrent to the parking violators. Direct service in the pm greatly reduces the SSR problem and keeps other folks from overusing the system by having to transfer at a resort.

sarhenty
02-22-2005, 12:30 PM
no not currently, because any ticket holder is also entitled to full use of the transportations systems.

so Disney would have to make a new set of rules, I dont think having certain busses for resort guests and others for park guests is to great of an idea, too much confusion

I realize that having a bus just for SSR guests is not a good idea bc it would probably take a while to fill (especially in slow seasons) but if it included all resort guests, I would bet it would fill up fairly quickly (especially in peak seasons). I don't think it would be that confusing, all the bus drivers needs to do is check for your room key upon boarding (its done in inner city transportation all the time, i'm from nyc). It would simplify things even more, if they had a separate queue area at the bus stop.

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 12:31 PM
The 2005 budget indicates $1.4mil for transportation. With a basis of 309 units, the cost is nearly $.30 per point, or 8% of our total dues.

I still think the best solution is for Disney to run direct service fom the theme parks to DTD after 6pm. Lack of service in the am is a deterrent to the parking violators. Direct service in the pm greatly reduces the SSR problem and keeps other folks from overusing the system by having to transfer at a resort.

Thanks for the info :)
There is one other option. Stop charging for parking. I mean how severly would that impact WDW if they did not charge for parking?

For us I hate driving to any of the parks. The Magic Kingdom being the worst IMO. Too many steps to get to the car. I like walking to to bus getting on getting off at our stop.

But if there was free parking then it would alleviate the problem of people trying to save the $8

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 12:38 PM
I realize that having a bus just for SSR guests is not a good idea bc it would probably take a while to fill (especially in slow seasons) but if it included all resort guests, I would bet it would fill up fairly quickly (especially in peak seasons). I don't think it would be that confusing, all the bus drivers needs to do is check for your room key upon boarding (its done in inner city transportation all the time, i'm from nyc). It would simplify things even more, if they had a separate queue area at the bus stop.

i see your point, but its also goes back to Disney probably not wanting to omit these people from these busses. They want off site guests moving around, spending money at resorts.

Just get SSR out of this loop somehow

get busses straight to DTD from parks
or close the walkway to non resort guests

you still have to allow all guests some way to get to SSR. you cant deny them access to the resort altogether so the idea of no non resort guests on this busses cant work

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Thanks for the info :)
There is one other option. Stop charging for parking. I mean how severly would that impact WDW if they did not charge for parking?

For us I hate driving to any of the parks. The Magic Kingdom being the worst IMO. Too many steps to get to the car. I like walking to to bus getting on getting off at our stop.

But if there was free parking then it would alleviate the problem of people trying to save the $8
or sell an unlimited multi day parking pass to people when the arrive at the park for a discounted rate. Like $5 a day or something being it will be prepaid.

btrim
02-22-2005, 02:49 PM
I believe if you have a park hopper ticket, you should be able to ride the buses anywhere on Disney property. However, the parking lots at DTD were not put there for people to get out of paying the parking fee at the parks. Also the SSR (or any DVC Resort) buses were not meant to carry anyone who wants to get to DTD. We do pay extra for those perks and people who are continually trying to find a way to cheat the system shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of the perks we have paid good money for. I am not a hateful person, but it is the type of people that the first poster mentioned (family and loud woman) that make me want to say that you must show a DVC resort card to even get on the bus headed for your resort. Why do people think they should be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want, no matter what the rules are? :confused3

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 03:05 PM
I believe if you have a park hopper ticket, you should be able to ride the buses anywhere on Disney property. However, the parking lots at DTD were not put there for people to get out of paying the parking fee at the parks. Also the SSR (or any DVC Resort) buses were not meant to carry anyone who wants to get to DTD. We do pay extra for those perks and people who are continually trying to find a way to cheat the system shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of the perks we have paid good money for. I am not a hateful person, but it is the type of people that the first poster mentioned (family and loud woman) that make me want to say that you must show a DVC resort card to even get on the bus headed for your resort. Why do people think they should be allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want, no matter what the rules are? :confused3

The problem is the rules. Technically they can do this but should they morally? Should they be encouraged to take a seat away from another guest just so they can save $8. That is where my problems lie. If it becomes too big of a problem I hope DVC / Disney will address it.

cruise-o-matic
02-22-2005, 04:33 PM
OK, here's my $.02.....

I think it is pretty well established that if you have a park ticket, you get full use of the transportation, so no use checking resort ID's. I can see Disney encouraging guests to take the SSR bus to DTD during the hours when the DVC sales center is open. It may encourage some to stop and take the tour. And during these hours, the SSR busses are probably not going to be too crowded.

Once the DVC offices close, then Disney needs to start running busses from the parks to DTD, and from DTD to the TTC (but not directly to he parks), so that those leaving DTD can get back to their cars. This way those who want to stay out and party can go directly to DTD, which means they'll be spending more $ with Disney.

While those SSRers, who are tired and carrying sleepy kids can go back home w/o the crush of outsiders. It is not fair for Disney to recommend the SSR bus as the "official" transportation to DTD since the SSR owners are picking up the tab.

I'm not sure if parking at DTD to avoid parking fees is illegal though. Cheap and inconvenient, yes, but since it is not a resort, is it "illegal"....? But as long as Disney doesn't charge for parking and doesn't run DTD busses to parks, then they probably need to gate SSR and post a CM the same way they do for cars. This won't stop everyone from using SSR as a transportation hub, but it should cut down on the abuse.

iwaseeyore
02-22-2005, 06:00 PM
IWhen I have my sleepy son in my arms with no where to sit because someone was too cheap to pay for parking or chose to stay offsite why should they get my seat?.

Because by paying for multiday park admission or being an onsite guest allows then unlimited use of the system.

Roll you eyes all you want but I would at least expect people not to condone those who are scamming the "system" Find any loophole you would like it doesn't mean since it is there people are entitled to it.

Scamming is your opinion but the facts are they are not scamming anyone.


I pay dues to have a seat on the bus. If fellow SSRs beat me to it, be my guest, but don't tell me someone staying offsite should be able to walk from DTD and take up seats on the bus without me getting upset. I pay to use the bus and it looks like I paid twice since I have a PAP too.

I think this is where you misinformed. I haven't checked any of my paperwork yet but i'm sure that it doesn't say "by paying your dues you are guaranteed a seat on a bus." There are a number of ways to qualify to use WDW Tranportation and most if not all guests qualify. Your dues are a portion of what your resort pays to provide transportation to WDW for the use of the system. I'm sure the resort pays a per cent based on the cash guests as well. Explain how you think you are the only person or DVC members are the only grouip that pay twice for the ability to use a bus. A person with a room reservation and a multiday ticket pays twice as well.

From the tone of your post, your upset that you had to hold your son. I can understand that. It happens all the time on the busses back to BWV after being at the MK.

elfbo
02-22-2005, 06:06 PM
Now while I dont have a problem with ticket holders using the bus, I do have a problem when they crowd onto a DVC bus, which *I* pay for out of dues, which will cause dues to go up because of higher transportation cost ... I hope if this trend continues, with Disney promoting SSR as the Gateway to DTD, they will pick up the tab as well (good luck on that).

As for the suggestion that funneling people though SSR many will stop by the DVC office probably wont work because the suggested bus dropoff point is by the DVC office and the people would have to backtrack, away from DTD, i dont see this happening.

Hopefully if enough of us show our concern with this, DVC will find a resolution that will not impact *our* bottom line.

TroyWDW
02-22-2005, 07:01 PM
We just recently bought at SSR. I do not want this to be a problem that I think it could be.
Could a SSR member post the transportation cost per point for the past year?
Here is a link to a thread that gives details of the 2005 DVC Budgets for all of the DVC resorts. 2005 DVC Budgets (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=681217)

The 2005 SSR transportation costs are still below OKW, which has the most similar transportation system. It'll be interesting to see how the 2006 Budget looks.

Troy

3DisneyNUTS
02-22-2005, 07:56 PM
Because by paying for multiday park admission or being an onsite guest allows then unlimited use of the system.



Scamming is your opinion but the facts are they are not scamming anyone.




I think this is where you misinformed. I haven't checked any of my paperwork yet but i'm sure that it doesn't say "by paying your dues you are guaranteed a seat on a bus." There are a number of ways to qualify to use WDW Tranportation and most if not all guests qualify. Your dues are a portion of what your resort pays to provide transportation to WDW for the use of the system. I'm sure the resort pays a per cent based on the cash guests as well. Explain how you think you are the only person or DVC members are the only grouip that pay twice for the ability to use a bus. A person with a room reservation and a multiday ticket pays twice as well.

From the tone of your post, your upset that you had to hold your son. I can understand that. It happens all the time on the busses back to BWV after being at the MK.


Do you just scan my popsts when you read them because your answers misconstrue what I have said. I did not have to hold my son on the bus but I am concerened that Disney offering the CP bus stop at SSR as the way to DTD will make me have to on future trips due to over crowding....You know what I cannot retype everything and re-explain please reread my posts before you comment.

I also feel it is scamming to use a bus intended for resort transportation as a way to get over on paying to park. BTW where do you own? If you don't see it as a problem maybe lets suggest they use the busses at your resort?

golfnut1264
02-22-2005, 08:00 PM
this is why cast members hate dvc owners...everybody thinks you are owed something because you own dvc....what about the family of four that just paid $1000 for park passes are they entitled to use the buses....you guys just complain and whine about every little thing.....
why should you hold your sleepy son on the bus...how do you know that people on your bus didnt pay for thier room or are not dvc members...the world should not stop because your kid is sleepy....you can either wait for the next bus and get a seat or leave the park earlier before your son falls asleep so you dont have blame your inconvienence on everybody else.....
when i go to disney i enjoy my trip and dont worry about who is at what pool and not a guest and who is on the bus that i PAY FOR and not a dvc memeber...as a matter of fact neither of those 2 questions or concerns ever enetered my mind....rules are you kidding me...morally wrong are u kidding me.....get a life people and worry about something important......

iwaseeyore
02-22-2005, 08:14 PM
Do you just scan my popsts when you read them because your answers misconstrue what I have said. I did not have to hold my son on the bus but I am concerened that Disney offering the CP bus stop at SSR as the way to DTD will make me have to on future trips due to over crowding....You know what I cannot retype everything and re-explain please reread my posts before you comment.

I also feel it is scamming to use a bus intended for resort transportation as a way to get over on paying to park. BTW where do you own? If you don't see it as a problem maybe lets suggest they use the busses at your resort?

What i did was quote you. I didn't misconstrue. Those are your words. I don't think I need to reread your posts. You want what you want. You have no respect for the rules of the land and you think that since you own at SSR you are the only one who should use the bus.

If a person has a multiday pass they can use the busses. If Disney sees it's a problem that they are parking at DTD they will deal with it. You can call it scamming, maybe they are just smarter then the rest of us.

I own at BWV and VWL. I deal with overcrowded busses since we share with other resorts at BWV. I've dealt with no parking due to people parking in the wrong place until DISNEY not DVC enforced the guests only rule in our resort parking lot. Did I get crazed over the issue, no. Did I look to change the rules, no. I spoke with someone at the time who could work to fix the issue. But I have never tried to deny something to someone when the have a right to use it.

Happy Birthday Cat
02-22-2005, 08:28 PM
this is why cast members hate dvc owners

Hey, I've heard this someplace before. Kind of a broad stroke with that brush golfnut1264.

HBC

Deb & Bill
02-22-2005, 08:37 PM
How about we suggest to people to take the most direct bus - AKL. Then they can catch a direct bus to DTD???? One stop only before DTD.

Let's play nice, folks.

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 08:52 PM
this is why cast members hate dvc owners...everybody thinks you are owed something because you own dvc....what about the family of four that just paid $1000 for park passes are they entitled to use the buses....you guys just complain and whine about every little thing.....
why should you hold your sleepy son on the bus...how do you know that people on your bus didnt pay for thier room or are not dvc members...the world should not stop because your kid is sleepy....you can either wait for the next bus and get a seat or leave the park earlier before your son falls asleep so you dont have blame your inconvienence on everybody else.....
when i go to disney i enjoy my trip and dont worry about who is at what pool and not a guest and who is on the bus that i PAY FOR and not a dvc memeber...as a matter of fact neither of those 2 questions or concerns ever enetered my mind....rules are you kidding me...morally wrong are u kidding me.....get a life people and worry about something important......

you might actually have some good points but since the whole statement was started with a completely ignorant statement, I wouldnt know because i stopped right there.

golfnut1264
02-22-2005, 09:07 PM
i took that quote from another post from hear..about the cast members hating dvc....but i dont care if you read or dont read it but i bet you actually read the whole post....what i meant was cast memebrs hate dvc owners like you not like me since i treat them with respect and how people in the service industry should be treated......get off your high horse....

sjdisneywedding
02-22-2005, 09:14 PM
i took that quote from another post from hear..about the cast members hating dvc....but i dont care if you read or dont read it but i bet you actually read the whole post....what i meant was cast memebrs hate dvc owners like you not like me since i treat them with respect and how people in the service industry should be treated......get off your high horse....

like me? first off you dont even know me so dont pretend to, second if you read anything on here I said from the begining the busses are for everyones use

third your the one preaching, so maybe you should take your own advice and get on down before you hurt yourself

wdw4life
02-22-2005, 09:32 PM
i took that quote from another post from hear..about the cast members hating dvc....but i dont care if you read or dont read it but i bet you actually read the whole post....what i meant was cast memebrs hate dvc owners like you not like me since i treat them with respect and how people in the service industry should be treated......get off your high horse....
You might want to read that other thread before declaring cast members don't hate you. I see you're from New Jersey. Cast members hate people from New Jersey.

golfnut1264
02-22-2005, 09:35 PM
you are telling me to read your post but you wouldnt even read my entire post because but still feel compelled to comment on it becasue of the first sentence...give me a break...my issue is about most or some of the prima dona attitudes people have on this board....everything is a gripe..i look for info here and get crazy when i read these complaints like these...it is ok to complain about the buses if you have a problem with them..but why should dvc get special treatment on the buses..like they own the buses....i own at the bw and would never ever get pissed or upset if i took the bus back from a park and couldnt get a seat and found out that someone in a seat doesnt own dvc or even staying at the bw...maybe they just want to walk the bw or go to espn....that is just how i feel...i love owning dvc and going to disney and could care less what others do...i enjiy every minute i am there even when i am standing on the bus..which always happens because i give my seat to women and elderly whenever i can....i dont mean to offend anyone unless they fall into the prima dona category and they know who they are....

Deb & Bill
02-22-2005, 09:38 PM
Hey, golfnut1264, chill, man. Gee, whiz. Don't get so hostile.

golfnut1264
02-22-2005, 09:42 PM
wdw4life......
i doubt cast members hate me but if they hate someone who treats them with respect than they might hate me....i am always at disney with a smile...it a shame someone could be so shallow as to make a comment about where someone is from and stereotype them like that....but that is ok with me..next time i am at disney i will still be nice to everybody....there is a certain week in november that schools are closed for most of the week for teacher conferences and alot of nj people head to disney and spend their green hard earned money just like you....probably because thier are so many from nj that week it seems like an invasion and nj get a bad name....if you dont like people from nj dont go the week of nov 7.....

wdw4life
02-22-2005, 09:47 PM
I don't hate anyone ,except terrorists,but you referenced the other thread. And that is one of the main points made about why cast members hate DVC. So doesn't matter how nice you are. It matters where you're from (according to that thread).

Sammie
02-22-2005, 10:16 PM
Ok, sense I have no hair left this week from being roasted, I might as well jump in too. :)

By the way in case anyway is staying up thinking poor Sammie is going to have a stroke over any of this, I truely don't worry about it as much as other's would like to make it seem. I have things in perspective about what I worry about. This is just interesting debate. Ok that said.

The problem with many things at Disney is there are alot of grey areas of what is written, what is implied, what is enforced, what is reasonable, and what is acceptable within the guidelines of being courteous to others.

At one time when tickets stated unlimited transportation there were not so many resorts, parks or other areas to even go to. Within the grey areas is the problem that has started this thread. If you want to go to Downtown Disney to shop or dine there should be a bus from every park and every resort going there. SSR should not be used as an alternative to that and as members I think that complaint is legitimate.

Just as I think filling up the parking lot closest to the BW is not fair to members staying there and having to drive around looking for any available spot. That area needs an overflow lot and it needs to be charged. If you arrive at the BW gate to dine or shop without staying there or not being DVC member then you pay to park. Same with Downtown Disney. If you do not want to pay to park, then ride the bus. If you want the convenience of having your car there, then you pay for that.

Personally I think all resort parking lots should be for exclusive use of those guests, DVC members would have access to all DVC resorts. If I want to go to the Polynesian to eat and I am not staying there I don't mind paying to park, if I do I can ride the bus.

Any guest with a ticket can park in the main lots and go anywhere they want by bus. As many have said the abuse begins when someone tries to avoid that cost.

Sure Disney can do away with parking fees, they will just add that loss on to the cost of tickets. And believe me it would be huge loss.

TDC Nala
02-22-2005, 10:27 PM
Yikes.

Seriously, say they've decided to do what some folks want done and limit the DVC resort buses to DVC members. This couldn't work for BCV, BWV or VWL because they are attached to their companion resorts; they'd need a whole new villa-specific fleet of buses. That'd be great, but it's not going to happen...so the owners at those resorts will start complaining about inequity since SSR and OKW are now getting exclusive buses.

Bus drivers would have to check room keys only for SSR and OKW (since both are solely DVC resorts). Really, I don't mind switching at a non-DVC resort if I'm riding the bus from a park to PI, so I'm not going to make that argument.

If you are NOT a DVC member, and are NOT staying at SSR, you don't have a car, and you'd like to take the bus to see SSR, take the tour, or visit someone staying there, you wouldn't be able to get there at all unless you were staying there yourself (or you had a car... maybe you shouldn't be parking there if you're not staying there, either, or what's to stop folks from parking there all day and taking the bus to the parks?) Oh, and you'd have to police the boats, too. How would the walkway be handled, put in an automatic gate that accepts only SSR room keys, or hire someone to check the room keys of path walkers?

I think Disney did its best to prevent DTD from becoming a free theme park parking lot by eliminating the direct buses to the parks, because switching buses anywhere is a pain in the tush. That's not going to stop the determined ones who absolutly have to save that eight bucks, even if they have to ride around on buses all morning. Any further restrictions would be too difficult to enforce if they're going to allow access to Disney transportation to anyone with a park pass - and if they don't, I'm sure they're afraid of losing some shopping and dining revenue.

Personally, I'm not for charging to park at DTD under any circumstances.

pamlet
02-23-2005, 01:27 AM
First off I'm NOT a DVC owner.... so I'm probably breaking rule #1 by posting here..

I have to say tho' that the funniest line in this thread is "What scarlet letter would you have them wear?" This gave me the solution!!!

Issue ALL DVC owners a bright pink DVC tag to wear. Of course people from New Jersey would have a special indicator.. :rotfl2: This could be applied to all guests. Deluxe could have Royal purple tags... Moderate's Green... Value, Blue... now I suppose that I'm going to be an offsite guest mine would have to be "danger... RED.." That way everyone would know what privileges go with who...

(Please understand where I'm coming from on this - prior to this thread I read one where people were calling themselves resort "snobs" - and sounded like it.. )

Seriously - I do understand the concern about the busses to SSR becoming crowded. I think charging for parking during the day at DTD is not out of line.. validation could help the cost. And people would not be tempted to use the lot for the parks.

We fully intend to pay for parking every day and moving the car from park to park as needed. The thought of riding the bus is nauseating to me.. I'm sure I will ride them at some point, but plan to do all I can to avoid them. I made a PS this moring for Trail's End - the CM was well aware that we're staying offsite - she advised me to take the bus to Fort Wilderness - then the bus back into the restaurant. She also advised me to leave 1 1/2 hours to get there from AK... :earseek: I'm figuring on an hour - to get to the car at AK - drive to TTC.. (reusing my 8.00 parking) and taking the boat from the Contemporary to Fort Wilderness.... hmmm on second thought I'd better leave 1 1/2 hours for that trek.. ;)

Mouse Ears
02-23-2005, 02:58 AM
Wow, I can't believe how heated this discussion has become!

I agree that the CMs should not be encouraging people to ride a bus to SSR and walk from there to get to DD. But, I don't think anything should necessarily be done to stop it.

It's amazing to me that anyone would spend hundreds for a day at WDW parks with their family and then waste an hour to save $8, but I know that some people will. Seriously, who can afford the parks and can't afford the parking.

Fortunately, I think the problem will be less pronounced over time. As SSR grows to capacity, the proportion of bus riders that are headed to DD will shrink relative to SSR residents. The additional riders will probably have little impact on the number of buses needed. The only significant consequence over the long term will be wear on that particular bus stop and the pathway - a minor issue.

The only real solution would be to provide a free or reduced-rate parking solution that is equally or more convenient than scamming from DD.

senecabeach
02-23-2005, 06:45 AM
Well...Good Morning All!! :flower:


My gut says a moderator will be closing this thread soon...so...I would like to make this suggestion again:

Why not just have "FREE" parking at the theme parks...!! :confused3

"For ALL who come to this happy place...etc." Remember?

CRobin
02-23-2005, 06:49 AM
Interesting thread.

There seems to be a predominant feeling that having a park ticket gives one access to Disney Transportation.

That may be the case, but Disney (in the link below) advertises a BENEFIT of staying on Disney property as it entitles one to the use of Disney's transportation system.

This would imply, to me at least, that this is a benefit not afforded to one not staying on Disney property, unless stated otherwise on their park ticket (which it may be; I don't have one handy)

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/resorts/resortOther?id=ResortBenefitsPage

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 08:11 AM
That may be the case, but Disney (in the link below) advertises a BENEFIT of staying on Disney property as it entitles one to the use of Disney's transportation system. This would imply, to me at least, that this is a benefit not afforded to one not staying on Disney property, unless stated otherwise on their park ticket (which it may be; I don't have one handy).

My Hopper states nothing about transportation period. I purchased this present one back in July '04. Not sure what the new MYW tickets state ? But from the disney.com site , they speak in general terms about their transportation :

Q: What is the best way to get around within the Walt Disney World® Resort?
A: There are many modes of transportation within the Walt Disney World Resort, including Bus, Boat and Monorail. A rundown of transportation within the resort:

By Bus:
Most areas of the Walt Disney World Resort are accessible by bus from other areas within the Resort, including Theme Parks*, Water Parks, the Disney Resorts and the Downtown Disney® area. Buses travel on routes throughout the Resort and do not provide direct service between all destinations.
*Magic Kingdom® Park is not accessible by bus from Disney's Contemporary Resort, Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa and Disney's Polynesian Resort. These Resorts provide monorail transportation to the park.

By Boat:
The Magic Kingdom® Park is accessible by water launch from Disney's Contemporary Resort, Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, Disney's Polynesian Resort, Disney's Fort Wilderness Resort & Campground and Disney's Wilderness Lodge. The Disney ferryboats connect the Magic Kingdom Park to the Transportation and Ticket Center (adjacent to Magic Kingdom parking).

Epcot® and Disney-MGM Studios are accessible by boat from Disney's BoardWalk Inn and Villas Resort, Disney's Yacht Club and Disney's Beach Club Resorts and the Walt Disney World Swan and Walt Disney World Dolphin Hotels.

Downtown Disney® is accessible by ferryboat from Disney's Port Orleans Resort and Disney's Old Key West Resort.

By Monorail:
Disney's monorail runs between the Magic Kingdom Park, Disney's Contemporary Resort, Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, Disney's Polynesian Resort and the Transportation and Ticket Center (adjacent to the Magic Kingdom parking lot). A connecting monorail takes Guests from the Transportation and Ticket Center to Epcot.


So, my take : Nowhere does it state offsite guests can't use the transportation system ? If this is their intent, then they need to do more than invoke implication on our part. Many offsite guests don't even have cars. They use their hotel free (or paid) shuttle and those often times simply drop offsite guests off at the TTC or perhaps just the MK or Epcot. Offsite guests are responsible for finding their way to others parks,water parks or resorts for meals/shopping/spas etc. I don't see how WDW could eliminate offsite guests from the transportation system as a whole ? They would strand alot of folks. I just don't think that's the "disney way". Sure, it's a "benefit" of staying onsite because onsite guests have the perk/benefit of never having to step foot in their car if they have one. So I feel that's a loosely used term when referring to onsite guests (benefit). Disney just wants to "play up" the many advantages of staying in their hotels. This is the way I see it.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 08:25 AM
Interesting thread.

There seems to be a predominant feeling that having a park ticket gives one access to Disney Transportation.

That may be the case, but Disney (in the link below) advertises a BENEFIT of staying on Disney property as it entitles one to the use of Disney's transportation system.

This would imply, to me at least, that this is a benefit not afforded to one not staying on Disney property, unless stated otherwise on their park ticket (which it may be; I don't have one handy)

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/resorts/resortOther?id=ResortBenefitsPage

sorry this is only semi-correct, while it may be a benefit of staying on property, it doesnt mean that staying on property is the only way to get the benefit


Allears:
what do the Admission tickets include?

Regular Magic Your Way Base tickets provide entrance to a single theme park on a given day. Use of Disney transportation is included with admission.

The Annual Passport entitles you to unlimited admission with park hopping privileges to the 4 Main Parks for 12 months with no blackout dates*.. Complimentary use of WDW transportation system - monorails, ferryboats, and motor coaches - is include

theres more sites with the same info but i have already looked it up too many times

tomerin
02-23-2005, 08:25 AM
time to end this

3DisneyNUTS
02-23-2005, 09:22 AM
this is why cast members hate dvc owners...everybody thinks you are owed something because you own dvc....what about the family of four that just paid $1000 for park passes are they entitled to use the buses....you guys just complain and whine about every little thing.....
why should you hold your sleepy son on the bus...how do you know that people on your bus didnt pay for thier room or are not dvc members...the world should not stop because your kid is sleepy....you can either wait for the next bus and get a seat or leave the park earlier before your son falls asleep so you dont have blame your inconvienence on everybody else.....
when i go to disney i enjoy my trip and dont worry about who is at what pool and not a guest and who is on the bus that i PAY FOR and not a dvc memeber...as a matter of fact neither of those 2 questions or concerns ever enetered my mind....rules are you kidding me...morally wrong are u kidding me.....get a life people and worry about something important......


You know what I am done....Everyone is entitled to everything and you know what? Feel good about yourself and scam every bit out of WDW you can. Put 10 in a studio, park at DTD and go everywhere, pool hop to everywhere because your admission to the park entitles you to it as long as you can do it "technically". Better yet park at any of the resorts you wish and use the transportation to get to the parks so you don't have to pay the measley $8. Knock yourselves out!

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 10:03 AM
Allears: what do the Admission tickets include?
Regular Magic Your Way Base tickets provide entrance to a single theme park on a given day. Use of Disney transportation is included with admission.
The Annual Passport entitles you to unlimited admission with park hopping privileges to the 4 Main Parks for 12 months with no blackout dates*.. Complimentary use of WDW transportation system - monorails, ferryboats, and motor coaches - is include
Thanks sjdisneywedding for posting this. I couldn't find anything less than vague and general on the main disney.com site.


Better yet park at any of the resorts you wish and use the transportation to get to the parks so you don't have to pay the measley $8. Knock yourselves out!
In looking back over all the posts, I feel that the majority of us felt using SSR busses to get free parking was abuse. Alot of us state this---myself included in a few posts. But where I disagree, is that offsite guests aren't entitled to use the disney transportation, as a whole, to visit resorts for dining/shopping/spas (i.e.). In other words, legitimately patronizing a resort. I think several of us feel this way & this seems to be the dividing line in this topic. Like I said, there would be alot of offsite folks pretty much stranded if not for Disney transportation---and again, I don't agree with hitching busses to get out of parking.

Putting "10 in a studio" or "pool hopping" from offsite/or non-DVC onsite guests does not seem to be anywhere near condoned here in this thread or anywhere on the boards. Maybe a couple people here have very different/opposing viewpoints, but they're the minority. Everybody has their own opinion. But I think the majority feel using SSR to get to DTD or out of a parking fee is abuse.
3DisneyNuts, I think you're just, understandably so, upset with the SSR/DTD bus situation.

d-r
02-23-2005, 10:03 AM
What would be interesting to me is to know what percentage of the transportation budget of SSR is being paid by the SSR dues. If dues are paying 100% of the budget for the SSR busses, then it sort of bugs me if CMs are telling people to use the SSR busses to go to downtown disney. However, I think that whenever anybody buys a park ticket or stays in walt disney world resort, a portion of that cost goes in to the transportation budget as well. So, if there is some portion of the SSR transportation budget coming from that pool and not just dvc dues, then it doesn't really bother me. And I suspect that's the case but I don't know.

At first I thought that maybe it was all a wash, because SSR owners can use other transportation at walt disney world if they want to - like the monorail, or take a boat to the ft. wilderness from magic kingdom for hoop de do, whatever. But then it occured to me that the SSR owners are also paying for tickets that should have some portion going to transportation costs.

So that left me wondering what percentage of the SSR transportation costs are payed out of dues.

You know, it really does wash out some though if you think about, people paying ssr dues might stay at bcv or vwl or bwv and use the transportation there, or whatever. So they are paying for SSR transportation and someone else is using it, and someone else paid for the transportation where they are staying and they are using it. But if 100% of the busses are paid out of dvc dues then I really wish cms wouldn't recommend it.

I remember one evening we had eaten at the cal. grill and were waiting to catch the monorail to the ttc to bus back to wlv, because it was 11:00 or so and the boat wasn't running anymore. A lady came up and asked the CM at the platform how to get to the boat to ft. wilderness. So the CM gave her directions, and the lady turned to go. I said, wait, the boat stopped running at 10 (or whatever time it was back then), and the lady stopped and said, oh no, how do I get back, and we told her. I kind of looked at the CM like ***, and she shrugged and said "she asked me how to get to the boat, not what time it stopped running." My point is, I think CMs can get worn down and give out directions like that without really thinking it through.

golfnut1264
02-23-2005, 10:06 AM
scam everything out of dw as you can....dv is the most exspensive place in the world to vacation...that is why i bought into dvc to save money...i dont scam anything...it is not about someone scamming dsney..it is about you people worring about it....dvc is such a small entity of disney..they need money from everywhere and anywhere....how does anybody on this board know for a fact that people are parking at dtd to save $8..maybe they want to go shoppng before or after going in the parks or going to a restaruant.....
they strategically put gift shops at exits dvc booths in high traffic areas..disney would be thrille to let someone park for free,use the busses and than go spend $15 $20 maybe $100 shopping or stop off at ssr and purchase dvc.....ridding the bus is scamming if you park at dtd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 10:08 AM
then it sort of bugs me if CMs are telling people to use the SSR busses to go to downtown disney.
I can remember, maybe going back 2 years on these boards, about CM's encouraging people to take the OKW bus and then take the Trumbo Ferry over to DTD. I think this sort of thinking on Disney's part has been going on for awhile. I bet people may still be doing this at OKW but now they have SSR to gain access too.

lllovell
02-23-2005, 10:19 AM
golfnut - I am not sure where your anger comes from, but if you think everyone here is whining, then stop reading hun. Life is too short.

The main point here that I think most people are concerned about is IF the SSR buses are paid for completely by SSR (since it is a dedicated DVC resort and transportation costs ARE part of our dues), then the CM's suggesting it to everyone as a mode of transportation to DTD is not right. It would be like the bellhop at the airport directing me to use your company's limo service at the airport because its going my way - so scoot over and let my family pile in, maybe leaving you to not even have a seat - and all at the expense of your company.

We are part of one entity in the big overall scheme of things. SSR is not any different than other hotels to most people at WDW (CMs or guests alike) so from that perspective, I can see them offering the buses as a mode of transportation to DTD. You can stay there if you are not a DVC member with cash (if the rooms are available) right? So in many respects, it IS just another hotel on property. HOWEVER, if we are paying exclusively for the bus transportation, that changes the issue.

For the people that are saying it will not be a big deal once SSR is complete, I disagree. I believe that the buses at SSR will be more and more full, requiring MORE buses to run (especially if that becomes the accepted transporation mode for DTD guests from the parks) thus upping MY dues to cover the cost of transportation going up.

Maybe someone could ask and find out if we are paying 100% for transportation or if it is subsidized by Disney. That is a fact we are missing which makes most of the "discussion" here conjecture.

My family are drivers at WDW. My sons don't like trips to MK that don't include the monorail, so we pretty much take our car everywhere. My limited experiences with the buses have shown me that it takes me far longer to travel that way, so I am fine with driving. (AP owners - so parking fees is not an issue either). But, if my dues are going to go up, then this issue matters to me.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 10:31 AM
In looking back over all the posts, I feel that the majority of us felt using SSR busses to get free parking was abuse. Alot of us state this---myself included in a few posts. But where I disagree, is that offsite guests aren't entitled to use the disney transportation, as a whole, to visit resorts for dining/shopping/spas (i.e.). In other words, legitimately patronizing a resort. I think several of us feel this way & this seems to be the dividing line in this topic. Like I said, there would be alot of offsite folks pretty much stranded if not for Disney transportation---and again, I don't agree with hitching busses to get out of parking.

Putting "10 in a studio" or "pool hopping" from offsite/or non-DVC onsite guests does not seem to be anywhere near condoned here in this thread or anywhere on the boards. Maybe a couple people here have very different/opposing viewpoints, but they're the minority. Everybody has their own opinion. But I think the majority feel using SSR to get to DTD or out of a parking fee is abuse.
3DisneyNuts, I think you're just, understandably so, upset with the SSR/DTD bus situation.

this pretty much hits the nail on the head, as far as I can tell as well.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 10:37 AM
scam everything out of dw as you can....dv is the most exspensive place in the world to vacation...that is why i bought into dvc to save money...i dont scam anything...it is not about someone scamming dsney..it is about you people worring about it....dvc is such a small entity of disney..they need money from everywhere and anywhere....how does anybody on this board know for a fact that people are parking at dtd to save $8..maybe they want to go shoppng before or after going in the parks or going to a restaruant.....
they strategically put gift shops at exits dvc booths in high traffic areas..disney would be thrille to let someone park for free,use the busses and than go spend $15 $20 maybe $100 shopping or stop off at ssr and purchase dvc.....ridding the bus is scamming if you park at dtd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ill have to disagree, I doubt people are driving to DTD, walking to SSR, taking a bus to a park, then doing it all again in reverse just to shop at DTD when in reality they could just park at the theme park first and drive over to DTD when they where done.

Theres obviously people trying to avoid the parking fees, I dont think theres too many disagreeing with that

snyderla
02-23-2005, 10:40 AM
If you are staying on WDW property, you are entitled to use WDW bus transportation. It says that in all the literature. It's one of the perks, period. Just because you are staying at CBR doesn't mean you can't take the SSR from MK to DTD! You can, because you are staying at WDW. Now, for those staying on Hotel Plaza Blvd, NO! That's wrong. JMO

Lori

nowellsl
02-23-2005, 10:58 AM
If you are staying on WDW property, you are entitled to use WDW bus transportation. It says that in all the literature. It's one of the perks, period. Just because you are staying at CBR doesn't mean you can't take the SSR from MK to DTD! You can, because you are staying at WDW. Now, for those staying on Hotel Plaza Blvd, NO! That's wrong. JMO

Lori
Why is it wrong?

As an annual passholder I am entitled to ride Disney transportation even if I am staying at one of the Hotel Plaza Hotels.

lllovell
02-23-2005, 11:04 AM
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but aren't the Hotel Plaza hotels ON PROPERTY? Isn't this the hotels down the street from DTD? If so, I can assure you that I was told when I was booked at the Grosvenor last summer for a short trip THROUGH THE DISNEY CUSTOMER SERVICE that these hotels are "on property".

Are you allowed EMH admission if you are staying there? (wish I could remember more, but I am an AP holder and was actually visiting people at OKW most of the time so we rode with them for bus service)

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 11:07 AM
If you are staying on WDW property, you are entitled to use WDW bus transportation. It says that in all the literature. It's one of the perks, period. Just because you are staying at CBR doesn't mean you can't take the SSR from MK to DTD! You can, because you are staying at WDW. Now, for those staying on Hotel Plaza Blvd, NO! That's wrong. JMO

Lori

its not so much using the transportation, I think its been established its pretty much open to everyone, its that people are putting strain on the SSR bus system(which apparently is paid by SSR dvc members in dues-but at what % is still being thrown about) by being cheap and trying to avoid not paying a parking fee at the parks

generally this may be something to just deal with, but probably not if dvc members are paying 100%

nowellsl
02-23-2005, 11:07 AM
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but aren't the Hotel Plaza hotels ON PROPERTY? Isn't this the hotels down the street from DTD? If so, I can assure you that I was told when I was booked at the Grosvenor last summer for a short trip THROUGH THE DISNEY CUSTOMER SERVICE that these hotels are "on property".

Are you allowed EMH admission if you are staying there? (wish I could remember more, but I am an AP holder and was actually visiting people at OKW most of the time so we rode with them for bus service)

Yes, they are on Disney Property (but not owned or operated by Disney). The only one that allows EMH is the Hilton because it pays Disney for the priviledge.
The point I'm making is that as long as you have a ticket that allows it (and they all do) it doesn't matter where you are staying, you are still eligible to ride Disney transportation.

It seems to me it's the same as someone who rides the Disney transportation from Downtown Disney to the Contemporary and walks to the Magic Kingdom or riding it to Boardwalk or Beachclub and walking to Epcot or MGM. Is that fair to people staying at the Contemporary or Boardwalk when they go ride a bus from Downtown Disney and have to wait in line with these people? The bottom line is people hop from place to place all over Disney and it's perfectly legal.

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 11:07 AM
As an annual passholder I am entitled to ride Disney transportation even if I am staying at one of the Hotel Plaza Hotels.
You're right :earsboy:
It's stated and accepted everywhere that offsite guests can use wdw transportation......some folks just don't like it & wish they could change the policies that wdw set forth (such as snyderla).
It's ridiculous imho...............

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 11:10 AM
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but aren't the Hotel Plaza hotels ON PROPERTY? Isn't this the hotels down the street from DTD? If so, I can assure you that I was told when I was booked at the Grosvenor last summer for a short trip THROUGH THE DISNEY CUSTOMER SERVICE that these hotels are "on property".

Are you allowed EMH admission if you are staying there? (wish I could remember more, but I am an AP holder and was actually visiting people at OKW most of the time so we rode with them for bus service)

doesnt even matter if they are or arent, ALL tickets allow for use of the transportation system

lllovell
02-23-2005, 11:15 AM
Yes, they are on Disney Property (but not owned or operated by Disney). The only one that allows EMH is the Hilton because it pays Disney for the priviledge.
The point I'm making is that as long as you have a ticket that allows it (and they all do) it doesn't matter where you are staying, you are still eligible to ride Disney transportation.


Thanks - was not sure about the EMH deal. I agree about having a ticket = right to ride. No arguement there. I was just not sure if those hotels had the same priviledges. (I was certainly encouraged to walk across the street and take the buses from DTD by the front desk at the Grosvenor, so I am guessing they do have transportation priviledges as well - - - or maybe just more "abuse" :confused3 .)

I am only concerned about SSR owners (mememe) not getting charged the full boat for the extra needs transportation that is going to occur from DTD being so close. I don't even mind "sharing" buses if Disney helps pay for them. I just want enough running (which will improve as more people are staying there) for me to be able to get on with a reasonable wait.

I have also never had parking issues at DTD and we go everytime we visit (Legoland is a must for a 3 and 5 year old set of boys!). So, I am not really sure how much I care about people cheating. I take that back, I think its wrong if you go to all that trouble to avoid paying the $8, but I don't let it effect me.

lllovell
02-23-2005, 11:18 AM
It seems to me it's the same as someone who rides the Disney transportation from Downtown Disney to the Contemporary and walks to the Magic Kingdom or riding it to Boardwalk or Beachclub and walking to Epcot or MGM. Is that fair to people staying at the Contemporary or Boardwalk when they go ride a bus from Downtown Disney and have to wait in line with these people? The bottom line is people hop from place to place all over Disney and it's perfectly legal.

I think the issue here is more about the CM's encouraging it. The SSR route (and apparently OKW before it) are the given route when telling people how to get to DTD. I don't know that I have heard of many people being told to use that particular route to get to their destination. To me that is where the difference lies. If it is standard to tell everyone to use the SSR buses, if we are paying for it all as DVC members, then that needs to be adjustes and more buses added.

lllovell
02-23-2005, 11:20 AM
doesnt even matter if they are or arent, ALL tickets allow for use of the transportation system

I agree 100% about the ticket/transportation policy even if I have concerns about SSR (and who pays for it).

tjkraz
02-23-2005, 11:31 AM
So that left me wondering what percentage of the SSR transportation costs are payed out of dues.

I did a quick best-guess calculation, and I don't think we are paying 100% of the costs.

Assumptions:

Average number of busses in service: 10 (2 to each theme park, 1 DD/TL, 1 BB)
Average operating hours per day: 16
Days per year: 365
Driver compensation: $18 (includes wages, matching taxes, healthcare and other benefits, unemployment contributions, etc.)

If you multiply all of that, you get over $1 million annually in driver compensation alone. That does not include anything for depreciation on the equipment, fuel, maintenance, or any costs related to the boat service.

Transportation costs for 2005 are budgeted at $1.4 million. Unless some of my assumptions are way off the mark, I don't see any way that members could be funding 100% of the transportation budget.

And, WDW / DVC is subsidizing a pretty good portion of our annual fees with no exact detail on which expenses are being subsidized. Some of it could easily be earmarked for transportation.

Unless someone can prove that we're paying 100% of the bill, I really don't see how we can object to CMs encouraging people to use the SSR busses to get to DD. I still think WDW would be wise to run busses direct from the theme parks to DD at night--and not just because of this issue. How much traffic is DD losing at night because there is no direct service? If I had to take two busses to get from a theme park to DD late at night, I can just about guarantee that I'd get as far as my own resort before I said "aw, forget it...I'm too tired for this."

My guess is the bus routes (and quality of service) will change many times over the next few decades. :)

cruise-o-matic
02-23-2005, 12:05 PM
Put aside the issues of who is legitimately able to ride the transportation, people parking at DTD to avoid the $8 parking fee are cheapskates and that only SSR resort guest should have 1st dibs on the SSR bus.

The real and only issue is this: According to "Official" Disney transportation guidelines, to get to DTD from a park, you need to take a bus to a resort, then a DTD from that resort. What has happened with the opening of SSR and its proximity to DTD is that the bus transfer piece has been taken out of the equation. So now the SSR bus has become the not so unofficial mode of transportation to DTD. And really, this is probably only a headache at park closing, when weary SSR guests are competing for seats against people wanting to go to DTD to party on or the cheapskates returning to their cars.

If I wanted to go to DTD after MK closing, knowing what I know now, I'd do the following: 1) Check the SSR queue. Too full? If so 2) Look for a resort bus queue where I can load immediately. If it is AKL, so be it. If the bus queues are too full, then 3) Walk to the CR and catch the DTD bus from there.

So what should be done? Well Disney Transportation is all about convenience. The quicker Disney can transport you, the faster you will spend your $ at the parks, resorts or DTD. So don't expect Disney to slow things down by checking resort ID's (unless security, or the appearance thereof dictates it). My guess is that at some point an equilibrium will be found, whether Disney adds more SSR busses or maybe they'll start bussing guest from the parks to DTD (so guest can get to DTD quicker and spend more $).

:teacher:

And one other thing, Can't we all get along? :love2:

Capn Dave
02-23-2005, 01:11 PM
Well unfortunately what others have worried about I have seen 4 times this past week and we were only at SSR for 6 days. The bus hoppers are being told to take the SSR buses as an easy way to get to DTD. These are not even WDW resort guests!

The first instance was an elderly couple I overheard talking about not wanting to pay the $8 parking fee...Another SSr resort guest was giving them directions to get back to the west side where they were parked. It wound up to be a huge hassle for this couple late at night and I am sure this discouraged them from trying to save the $8 next time.

Second was a family who were talking about staying at the Wydham. They were coming back from Blizzard Beach.

Third was a family again coming back from Magic Kingdom. They were walking around the bus stop in a daze after exiting the bus mumbling to each other if this was the right stop. They were not sure of where to go to get to DTD. Call me evil but there was no way in heck I was going to make their lives (being they are abusing the bus system) easier so we walked right by them. They were also trying to get back the Hilton.

Last was family from hell. They had a ton of junk with them and the mother was loud and obnoxious. This was the most blatant abuse of the bus yet. When the bus stopped to unload she was yelling at the bus driver about going to the Hilton. He told her to get off there. She was saying something about a shuttle but either the bus driver did not understand her or just wanted her off the bus. We were not even on that bus but waiting at the stop to go to Epcot. She was yelling so loudly at the bus driver it carried out of the bus into the air to everyone waiting. She proceeds to get off with her family of 6 and they walk to the water from the Congress park bus stop. About 5 minutes later we hear her yelling at her husband about not being able to find the shuttle (((???))) She then comes over to another guest waiting for the bus (God I wish she came up to me) and starts asking how to get to DTD or the shuttle to the Hilton? Well the person explains that DTD is a five minute walk and she would have to go that way. There are no shuttles to the Hilton. She is now screaming at her husband about how the bus driver gave them the wrong information. She also was yelling that she couldn't walk since she has a bad back. She was complaining and moaning the entire time she was there and it was getting really grating especially since she did not belong there. She was blatantly abusing the bus system and felt entitled to complain about it too no less! So she was then yelling to her husband to call a cab! Then another guest tells her a DTD bus will be there within 20 minutes since she just missed it (I was screaming in my head 'no don't encourage her!!")

Fortunately for us the Epcot bus came and spared us from the misery of her (so I don't have a conclusion) but I am now extremely worried about 3 things.
#1 are Disney Cast members telling people to use the SSR bus as an easy way to DTD
#2 Do you think the DTD area resorts are telling their guests to do that (it would save them on their transportation costs for people to abuse the WDW transportation.
#3 My dues are paying for people like this to travel for free!!!!


I want to write a letter and explain my concerns and also report this. I mean if I saw it 4 times in 6 days how many other times has it happened where the people are just being quiet?
Who can I write to or call about this?

I remember quite a few years ago that you had to stay at a Disney resort to ride the buses to the hotels or parks. I notice now that anyone can ride the buses anywhere. You could be a person with a day ticket to disney and ride the bus to SSR and DTD. In fact you wouldn't even need a park ticket.
Maybe Disney needs to start checking ID's when you board the bus to cut down on people using transportation intended for guests.

jarestel
02-23-2005, 01:23 PM
If Disney decided to close the free parking loophole at DTD and started charging the same amount to park there as at the parks, the SSR bus debate would probably be settled. Of course a new "I don't want to give up my free parking at DTD" debate would begin. I guess it all depends on how it affects each one personally as to how vehemently we would support/oppose such a plan. But it would eliminate any incentive for people to park at DTD and use the SSR busses to get out of paying the parking fee.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 01:25 PM
I remember quite a few years ago that you had to stay at a Disney resort to ride the buses to the hotels or parks. I notice now that anyone can ride the buses anywhere. You could be a person with a day ticket to disney and ride the bus to SSR and DTD. In fact you wouldn't even need a park ticket.
Maybe Disney needs to start checking ID's when you board the bus to cut down on people using transportation intended for guests.

why? I believe its already been pointed out that Disney wants everyone using the busses to go to as many places as possible. The issue isnt whos riding the busses, its more whos paying for the busses

ColoradoBelle1
02-23-2005, 02:03 PM
Good Morning!
I haven't read all 11 pages, so this may be a repetitive brainstorming but here goes:
The problem is : people parking at DTD TO SAVE THE $8.00 parking fee and subsequently using/crowding SS buses which are subsidized by DVC owners?

First: how many people are we talking about here? While I am sure that there are some people who travel from DTD to the parks, I do not think it is for the purpose of saving parking fees at the parks.
The reason: if you are a local or savvy out of town visitor, you know lots of easier/ quicker ways to avoid paying parking fees and get in closer to the park of choice. Certainly you could just park at SS to use SS transport, but we all know there is closer parking than that depending on what park you are trying to get to.

I think that there are people who are shopping at DTD but then who want to meet up with family maybe at one of the parks. These people might be directed by CMS to use the SS buses if they are asked...but savvy shoppers would more likely take a bus from DTD to say, the Contemporary and then walk to the MK, or to Poly or GF and then monorail, or to BC and walk or boat to Epcot.

As to illegality: if having a park ticket allows you to use ALL transportation and if shopping at DTD is the only requirement for free parking (you could buy a cup of coffee to qualify)...then anyone parking at DTD and shopping there is allowed to hop any bus to anywhere legally, no?

I imagine that the bean counters like the idea of peple spending money at DTD. They may even like the idea of people walking over to SS while it is still not sold out...to check it out.

It seems from the posts here that once there were buses directly to the parks from DTD, but that they stopped running...I guess from lack of biz?
IF that is true, then perhaps the bus drivers and CMS are telling people to use the SS bus and therin lies the solution: the SS owners should tell DISney they are concerned about the problem and they would like Disney to change the policy of telling people to use SS bus transport to the parks. Instead, guests could be offered transportation on any unfilled bus from DTD to another resort with a courtesy dropoff at the park nearest the resort bus itself. ( So, a bus to YC could drop off the YC people, pick up YC people headed to DTD and then make a quick stop at EPcot or MGM. DTD people wanting to go to MK could get on an unfilled bus to Contemporary and walk to MK from there. This would be more efficient and fairer to SS owners because it would be using Disney buses to Disney nonDVC resorts to transport shoppers to the parks of choice.

It seems that the complaints about SS bus use by DTD parkers stemmed from people coming FROM the parks and going TO DTC as opposed to the other way around. (Forgive me if I am wrong about that.) It might be that the CMS aren't telling people at DTD to use SS transport to go TO the parks, but only to get them FROM the parks to DTD. I guess the problem could be elimated if they just made a sign and transport 'line' from the park bus stop TO DTD...and then when people were standing IN that line, buses going to the 'DTD" onsite Disney quasi hotels would pick them up.

Finally: in this day and age of security, I imagine that at buildout, SS will have either a walking path gate that needs a SS resort key to open at the walkways from/to SS to DTD...In the scheme of things this wouldn't be too costly a prevention..sort of like what many beach resorts use to prevent beach walkers from coming onto the resort.

Hope this brainstorming helps a little insofar as solutions to the problem.
have a great day!
colorado belle






So the option of pay parking at DTD, which would discourage shoppers, or even having park tickets that must be stamped in one of the shops (creating $$ costs for Disney to pay for parking attendants etc) isn't 'win' enough for Disney.

jarestel
02-23-2005, 02:17 PM
It seems from the posts here that once there were buses directly to the parks from DTD, but that they stopped running...I guess from lack of biz?

That's one way of looking at it...
Another is that Disney realized people were parking at DTD and hopping busses to the parks to save on parking fees.

So the option of pay parking at DTD, which would discourage shoppers, or even having park tickets that must be stamped in one of the shops (creating $$ costs for Disney to pay for parking attendants etc) isn't 'win' enough for Disney.

It's not likely that too many local people go to DTD in order to pay 3 times as much for Disney souveniers as they can pay at other local outlets. Most of the DTD shoppers, are in all likelihood, Disney resort visitors who don't need to drive to DTD unless they want to.

If Disney charged for parking at DTD, they could still honor AP's, PI ticket media, and Disney Quest tickets for free parking. Granted, the shoppers would have to pay, but as I said if they're Disney guests anyway, they only pay once for parking per day regardless of whether they go to parks and/or DTD.

If DTD is the only "free" parking place left in WDW ( not counting sneaking into resort parking lots to park ), then maybe it's time to close that door.

lllovell
02-23-2005, 02:19 PM
It is my understanding that the reason there are no buses directly from DTD to the parks is to avoid the parking lot at DTD being full of park guests all day thus keeping people like me (an AP holder with free parking) that drive around Disney from being able to find a parking space at DTD becaues it is full of people avoiding the $8 fee at the parks. I am sure you are correct, that some of the people parking at DTD were shopping first and went to meet up with others at the parks. I also think that most of the people we dvcers come across on the buses have already asked at the far end how to get to the parks from DTD. They figured it out somehow and I am sure they are told just as simply as they are told how to get to DTD at night. No one is arguing that people with tickets should not be allowed to use WDW transportation. People here are just concerned that as DVC members that pay a fair share (probably not all as TJKRAZ pointed out) of the price of the SSR bus lines, we want to be able to get on the bus the same as all the other resorts and not have to wait 2-3 times as long because of people using the SSR bus to get to DTD.

Either run more buses (at WDW's expense) or run buses straight to DTD and charge for parking (which seems more complicated to me) with a validation system. Either seem like quick fixes to me and they might as well install a DTD drop off OUTSIDE the SSR gates if there are truly that many people getting out there. That way you keep people that are not SSR vacationers from having complete and open access to SSR (which probably will become an issue as it fills/is completed) yet if you don't pick up from that same "outside" location, you will discourage people from parking at DTD for a "free pass" on the $8 parking fee.


There are a gazillion hotels outside the premises. I am guessing, but I would bet that most people use MYW type tickets which don't include free parking at the parks. Therefor, there is a problem with people that don't want to pay the $8 a day using other facilities to try to get free parking.

Security is another issue really. It is lacking. It provides you a sense of safety, but we all probably agree that it doesn't go far towards providing any true exclusion to different resorts.

doubletrouble_vb
02-23-2005, 02:26 PM
Finished reading the thread after my other posts.

It's pretty clear there will be transportation problems at SSR...apparently more so than may have been occuring in the past when people may have used the Contemporary bus or the OKW bus to get to DTD. So I have two suggestions...

1. In the short run suggest to as many people as possible that they use AKL or CR to get to DTD. This might encourage Disney to find a viable resolution when their deluxe hotels are impacted by the problem.

2. Ask Disney to gate the walkway in the same manner pools can be gated. The technology for key access exists. Alternatively Disney could go low tech and add a gate that is manually locked and only open from 2:30PM until 6:00AM (for the hard partiers). Yes you would still get a few people using the bus as an alternate shuttle to DTD hotels...but remember these people have a bus shuttle and would rather catch their own bus than yours...if they are on your bus it was probably a mistake. This would discourage all but the most serious skinflints from using DTD for parking. SSR patrons could use the waterpark busses to get to DTD during the periods the gate is locked and when the ferry isn't running.

Greysword
02-23-2005, 02:38 PM
Onto the solution portion of our discussion :tongue:

After reading all of the arguments, the best solution appears to be to contact WDW transportation.

We need to inform them, as dutiful Disney citizens, that there has been a large influx of people moving through SSR for DTD and that the bus driving CMs have been encouraging it.

We should also state that the numbers and time of day seem to indicate that the majority of these people are using the WDW transporation system and DTD to by-pass the regular automobile fees at the parks, which was the reason for discontinuing the bus service from DTD to the theme parks in the first place. We may want to point out in the email/letter that Disney is loosing transportation (in gas and vehicle maintenance) and parking revenue due to this.

Near the end we can put in a small section about our specific grievances. That is, although fellow Disney citizens are more than welcome at our lovely resort to shop, play, and dine, we would prefer those just using the SSR bus stop as a transfer point to save a few dollars or to get to an non-sanctioned DTD hotel find some other mode of transportation and pay the parking fees at one of the theme parks.

This should inform them of the number of individual complaints, the concern we have that Disney is loosing revenue, our concerns for the increasing number of herds passing through, and then let the wonderful imagineers take over from there. I would be willing to bet they could think of a fine way to handle the problem, shopuld they choose to do so.

Thank you for listening! What are some other solutions you have to the issue?

Sherri
02-23-2005, 02:48 PM
I'm not sure i'm understanding something. We go to Disney about twice a year, staying on Disney property one out of the two times. We NEVER thought about parking at a resort and taking their transportation over to the parks. Isn't that against the rules? Or technically are you able to?
I always figured that resrot transportation is for those staying at the resort. Am I wrong?

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 03:00 PM
I'm not sure i'm understanding something. We go to Disney about twice a year, staying on Disney property one out of the two times. We NEVER thought about parking at a resort and taking their transportation over to the parks. Isn't that against the rules? Or technically are you able to?
I always figured that resrot transportation is for those staying at the resort. Am I wrong?

actually these people are parking at Downtown Disney for free then walking to SSR via the walkway and using the busses that run back and forth to the parks from SSR

also no technically you are not allowed to park at resort in order to use that resorts transportation to get to the parks, but some still try to do that as well

lllovell
02-23-2005, 03:04 PM
You are right, Sherri. But we are talking about the open access area of DTD. You can certainly bend the rules and find a way into resort areas and park, but it is against the rules (since there is limited parking). Some days you will be allowed in if there are few people staying at the resort and others you will be turned away if you are a resort guest, but off property, you are supposed to always be turned away unless you have a PS or are visiting then you are directed to a "short term" lot.

The folks that have started this debate are using the open area of Downtown Disney to park, walking to SSR and then grabbing a bus (or leaving the parks and going to SSR and walking to DTD in the evenings). Technically they have the right if they are ticket holders, but they are bending the spirit of the free DTD parking.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 03:12 PM
G
First: how many people are we talking about here? While I am sure that there are some people who travel from DTD to the parks, I do not think it is for the purpose of saving parking fees at the parks. .

well i guess its enough to warrant this post from the OP. Personally I disagree I think itsmostly entirely to avoid the parking fee. Who is going to drive to DTD, walk to SSr, take a bus to the park, and do it all again in reverse when they can simply drive to the park and pay $8?

Certainly you could just park at SS to use SS transport, but we all know there is closer parking than that depending on what park you are trying to get to..

umm actually no you cant do this, at all! This is breaking the rules, at least those parking at DTD are not breaking rules




It seems from the posts here that once there were buses directly to the parks from DTD, but that they stopped running...I guess from lack of biz?

hugh? I hope thats supposed to be a joke. they stopped it because too many people where trying to avoid the parking fee.



[/QUOTE]

Sherri
02-23-2005, 03:20 PM
If technically it is permitted, and large amounts of people do this, and Disney knows of this, then why don't they just wave the parking fee?
I like a good deal as much as the next guy, but i've got to tell you, that seems like a lot of work in order to get out of parking.
In order to take the resort busses, shouldn't they require you to show your room key, or something else stating you are staying at that specific resort?

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 03:23 PM
Onto the solution portion of our discussion :tongue:

After reading all of the arguments, the best solution appears to be to contact WDW transportation.

We need to inform them, as dutiful Disney citizens, that there has been a large influx of people moving through SSR for DTD and that the bus driving CMs have been encouraging it.

We should also state that the numbers and time of day seem to indicate that the majority of these people are using the WDW transporation system and DTD to by-pass the regular automobile fees at the parks, which was the reason for discontinuing the bus service from DTD to the theme parks in the first place. We may want to point out in the email/letter that Disney is loosing transportation (in gas and vehicle maintenance) and parking revenue due to this.

Near the end we can put in a small section about our specific grievances. That is, although fellow Disney citizens are more than welcome at our lovely resort to shop, play, and dine, we would prefer those just using the SSR bus stop as a transfer point to save a few dollars or to get to an non-sanctioned DTD hotel find some other mode of transportation and pay the parking fees at one of the theme parks.

This should inform them of the number of individual complaints, the concern we have that Disney is loosing revenue, our concerns for the increasing number of herds passing through, and then let the wonderful imagineers take over from there. I would be willing to bet they could think of a fine way to handle the problem, shopuld they choose to do so.

Thank you for listening! What are some other solutions you have to the issue?


great idea, anybody know where exactly to sending these?

WebmasterDoc
02-23-2005, 04:21 PM
great idea, anybody know where exactly to sending these?

We can't use the DIS to organize any letter writing campaign - email or otherwise. This has been a long standing policy of the site.

This issue is more likely an individual problem than a WDW policy problem anyway. In their zeal to assist guests, WDW bus drivers may suggest taking the SSR bus (knowing that it is rarely filled at this point in time) when asked "What is the easiest way to get to DD from here" - regardless where "here" may be.

Some guests staying on Hotel Plaza Blvd do walk to DD and take a bus to a resort in order to get to one of the parks, rather than wait for their own shuttle. Some offsite guests may park at DD and do the same thing to save the parking fee, but many are also going to DD to go to PI, shop or dine at one of the restaurants.

The monorail resorts used to share their bus with TTC to get to DD - not sure if the route is still the same or not- but, either way, until it is perceived as a problem by Disney, it's unlikely to be modified. While email complaints may eventually contribute to a modification of the current situation, it will likely need to come from complaints of guests currently staying onsite rather than from relatively anonymous emails from people who have experienced the issue only thru the internet.

My personal experience has been that better response is usually gained from addressing the situation while onsite by asking to speak to a manager or from letters sent by snail mail to appropriate parties. Email campaigns tend to look like organized attempts to overrun systems with hearsay complaints.

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 04:26 PM
CapnDave states :
I remember quite a few years ago that you had to stay at a Disney resort to ride the buses to the hotels or parks. I notice now that anyone can ride the buses anywhere.
Huh ? How far back are you going Dave (or anyone else who has said this) ? I'm just real curious about this one. We've been using disney busses to get to and from resorts from parks and back "legally" and "legitimately" for 11 years now ? We (for the record) never used a hotel parking lot to gain access to a park. Personally, I don't consider that a legit reason.
When we first brought our kids to WDW in '94, it was disney CM's themselves (CRO, bus drivers etc) who explained to us which busses we could take to get wherever. We were never asked for resort ID's in the numerous times we used the busses to get (mostly) to restaurants. We stayed offsite almost exclusively until '98-'99 when we started adding nights on at disney resorts and then '00 when we became DVC Members. So just wondering how far back this so-called policy goes where you had to be staying at a disney hotel in order to utilize the busses ?

Disneyaholic
02-23-2005, 04:38 PM
Who is going to drive to DTD, walk to SSr, take a bus to the park, and do it all again in reverse when they can simply drive to the park and pay $8?

The people who are staying at the Holiday Inn, Days Inn, etc. 7 or 8 miles away from WDW. Unless things have changed, those motels don't even offer transportation to the parks -- or if they do, they charge for it and it runs on a set schedule (unlike the Disney transportation which [supposedly, anyhow] runs continuously. So, if you miss the 3:30 bus back to the motel, you have to sit in the parking lot (and yes, those buses wait way out in the parking lot, not close to the park gates like WDW buses) till maybe 5:00 or so to wait for the next one.

If they have figured out that they can park for free at DTD and use the Disney transportation system for free and not have to be stuck to a bus schedule, why wouldn't they? Especially if the lots have no controls or time limits.

Remember, most of us are not the "average" WDW guest -- for a lot of people it is truly a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation that they have saved up for for years. Saving $8 may mean more to a lot of people than saving an hour or so in transportation time. :sad1:

That still doesn't make it "right" and when I'm driving up and down the aisles of DTD at 10:30 am, unable to find a decent parking space, it REALLY makes me nuts...but that does answer the question posed by sjdisneywedding.

JMHO.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 05:07 PM
The people who are staying at the Holiday Inn, Days Inn, etc. 7 or 8 miles away from WDW. Unless things have changed, those motels don't even offer transportation to the parks -- or if they do, they charge for it and it runs on a set schedule (unlike the Disney transportation which [supposedly, anyhow] runs continuously. So, if you miss the 3:30 bus back to the motel, you have to sit in the parking lot (and yes, those buses wait way out in the parking lot, not close to the park gates like WDW buses) till maybe 5:00 or so to wait for the next one.

If they have figured out that they can park for free at DTD and use the Disney transportation system for free and not have to be stuck to a bus schedule, why wouldn't they? Especially if the lots have no controls or time limits.

Remember, most of us are not the "average" WDW guest -- for a lot of people it is truly a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation that they have saved up for for years. Saving $8 may mean more to a lot of people than saving an hour or so in transportation time. :sad1:

That still doesn't make it "right" and when I'm driving up and down the aisles of DTD at 10:30 am, unable to find a decent parking space, it REALLY makes me nuts...but that does answer the question posed by sjdisneywedding.

JMHO.


sorry you misunsderstood me, my comment was in response to many earlier posts where people commented that maybe the cars where there because the people wnated to go to DTD before going to a park. I was being sarcastic, I meant of course the ones doing this are looking to by pass the $8 fee. Otherwise you are not going through all this trouble when you could drive straight into the park and just pay the $8 and then drive straight to DTD to shop.

sorry I should of typed it all out

snyderla
02-23-2005, 05:10 PM
You're right :earsboy:
It's stated and accepted everywhere that offsite guests can use wdw transportation......some folks just don't like it & wish they could change the policies that wdw set forth (such as snyderla).
It's ridiculous imho...............

NO, I don't care about changing any policies, I don't even care if people take the busses it they have tickets or a legitimate right to use them. I do not, however, agree with people parking at DTD to avoid paying to park at MK, AK, DMGMS or EPCOT. That is what I would like to change. I own DVC at SSR and I don't care if people use the transportation to get to DTD, but not to avoid paying parking fees. I guess perhaps I didn't make myself clear to you. I'm not interested in changing Disney policies, just enforcing them :earsboy:

Lori
aka snyderla

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 05:23 PM
This issue is more likely an individual problem than a WDW policy problem anyway. In their zeal to assist guests, WDW bus drivers may suggest taking the SSR bus (knowing that it is rarely filled at this point in time) when asked "What is the easiest way to get to DD from here" - regardless where "here" may be.




I dont even have much of problem with the use of the bus to transport these folks to and from the parks regardless of who pays for the bus fees, but I do see an issue with them boarding and unboarding right smack dab in SSR. SSR is a resort not one big bus stop

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 05:26 PM
I don't even care if people take the busses it they have tickets or a legitimate right to use them. I do not, however, agree with people parking at DTD to avoid paying to park at MK, AK, DMGMS or EPCOT.
thanks for making your stance clearer.....we're on the same page then.

doubletrouble_vb
02-23-2005, 06:49 PM
I'm not sure i'm understanding something. We go to Disney about twice a year, staying on Disney property one out of the two times. We NEVER thought about parking at a resort and taking their transportation over to the parks. Isn't that against the rules? Or technically are you able to?
I always figured that resrot transportation is for those staying at the resort. Am I wrong?

If you are staying onsite the parking fee is included. Resort transportation is for those with tickets OR staying on site. However parking and resort transportation are entirely two different issues however closely related they may seem. If you have a parking pass you can park anywhere Disney doesn't forbid you to otherwise (they'll just wave you in). If you don't have a pass...as in you are staying offsite...they may take down information about your vehicle...then wave you in. But I guess in more crowded seasons you might have to present further proof to get in like a PS.


PS. I first stayed on site in I believe 1992. I think the documentation still read that you needed to be a resort guests to ride but the drivers definitely weren't paying attention to room keys... And in conflict with that the tickets said you had access to resort transportation... I remember trying to show the driver my card...sometimes they'd look sometimes they wouldn't.

Acklander
02-23-2005, 09:26 PM
I dont even have much of problem with the use of the bus to transport these folks to and from the parks regardless of who pays for the bus fees, but I do see an issue with them boarding and unboarding right smack dab in SSR. SSR is a resort not one big bus stop


Sure SSR is a big bus stop, as are many of the other Disney bus stops. This is just the way Disney has set up their bus system. Either you can get a direct route (from a resort to a park) or you have to find a transfer point (from a resort to another resort). Whenever I've wanted to go from the resort I'm staying at to another resort I've always been directed by CM to go the the park closest to my final destination and use that as the transfer point. For DD that transfer point would be SSR, therefore the CM is correct in telling people to go to SSR if they want to go to DD.
I wouldn't want Disney to start checking ID's and passes, as that would slow down the transportation, and with all the different types of passes, almost everyone would qualify for a ride anyway. For every "full" bus that leaves, it appears that about half are able to get seats and about half have to stand. That's been my experience as well - about half the time I get a seat, about half the time I'm standing. Once a bus is completely full, it takes off, so if anything, having people transfer at SSR probably has the effect of more frequent buses. It works for me. I don't know how Disney divides up the transportation costs - I assume that a percentage comes from ticket sales, a percentage comes from room rates, a percentage is paid by the restaurants and stores, and a percentage from the businesses that have leases at DD. Therefore we all have access to the transportation system, since everyone comes to Disney and ends up spending money someplace. I have no idea how many people park at downtown Disney, walk to SSR bus stop, and then take the bus to one of the theme parks to beat the parking fee, but I bet Disney has a very good idea how many people take advantage by breaking the rules and obviously it's not enough to make changes beyond not being able to take a bus directly from a theme park to DD. When it becomes too big of a problem, they will then deal with it.
Overall, I think Disney does a great job with transportation and personally I think the more people who take advantage of public transportation, the better for all. When visiting during Christmas I love to use the transportation to "resort hop" and see all the decorations at the different resorts. I may not be staying at that resort or spending any money at that resort, so I'm sure many on this board don't think I have any business using the buses, but it's Disney's bus and they have no problem with it and that's good enough for me.

MiaSRN62
02-23-2005, 09:41 PM
PS. I first stayed on site in I believe 1992. I think the documentation still read that you needed to be a resort guests to ride but the drivers definitely weren't paying attention to room keys...
Thanks doubletrouble.....I was wondering how far back that policy went. It was before we started coming to WDW on a regular basis.

sjdisneywedding
02-23-2005, 10:03 PM
Sure SSR is a big bus stop, as are many of the other Disney bus stops. This is just the way Disney has set up their bus system. Either you can get a direct route (from a resort to a park) or you have to find a transfer point (from a resort to another resort). Whenever I've wanted to go from the resort I'm staying at to another resort I've always been directed by CM to go the the park closest to my final destination and use that as the transfer point. For DD that transfer point would be SSR, therefore the CM is correct in telling people to go to SSR if they want to go to DD.

Are you nuts? I dont mean SSr HAS a big bus stop, I mean I dont want it(as in the resort itself) to BE just one big bus stop. The bus unloads here and everybody uses the walkway to walk to DTD.

I wouldn't want Disney to start checking ID's and passes, as that would slow down the transportation, and with all the different types of passes, almost everyone would qualify for a ride anyway.

I dont know if you read the thread but I think everybody already agrees on this.






For every "full" bus that leaves, it appears that about half are able to get seats and about half have to stand. That's been my experience as well - about half the time I get a seat, about half the time I'm standing. Once a bus is completely full, it takes off, so if anything, having people transfer at SSR probably has the effect of more frequent buses.

Exactly, more busses=possibly higher dues. Thats half the point of this thread.

Sammie
02-24-2005, 01:07 AM
scam everything out of dw as you can....dv is the most exspensive place in the world to vacation...that is why i bought into dvc to save money.

Golfnut1264,If you think Disney is the most expensive place in the world to vacation, you have not traveled very far. Many places are much more expensive than DW.

Doubletrouble is right at one time only Disney resort guests were allowed to ride the transportation to a resort. That is why the multi day pass says unlimited use of Disney transportation. However it does not say unlimited use of Resort Transportation. They used to run buses from parks to the TTC and Downtown Disney. Then Disney decided there was money to be made by getting guests to the resorts to shop and dine.

As to how does anyone know if people are parking at DD to avoid the parks fee to park. Because they are there before the shops at DD even open and while waiting for the early bus at SSR you see them walking over from DD. They have not been there to shop, as the shops are not even open yet. So yes they are off site guests, they drove over and parked there to ride the SSR bus.

It used to happen also at other resorts but guardshacks stopped alot of it, except for the determined ones that make up some fake story. The only way I see to control it, is a sidewalk guardshack that monitors foot traffic and ID's. To me this would be a good issue for safety too. Due to the large amount of traffic near DD, I think SSR ought to be a fenced and gated community. With the 2 drive in guardshacks and then a sidewalk gate that requires a Disney ID. Some would sneak through but not many. But these things cost money.

Pluto4Pres
02-24-2005, 09:19 AM
...She was blatantly abusing the bus system and felt entitled to complain about it too no less! So she was then yelling to her husband to call a cab! Then another guest tells her a DTD bus will be there within 20 minutes since she just missed it (I was screaming in my head 'no don't encourage her!!")


I take from the OP's comment here that allthough the quickest way from SSR to DTD is to use the walkway, there still is bus service form SSR to DTD. This kinda makes me see things in a different light. This means that SSR is just a much a legitimate bus transfer point for DTD as any Disney resort on the transportation system. If I accept this statement then there is no problem whatsoever with the bus system.

The problem here is the walkway. That is where the extra measures should be taken to control (or at least cut down on) the scammers. A manned gate from morning to early afternoon might discourage most of them. But, who would pay for that? What time do most of the shops open at DTD? Maybe the parking lot should be closed until 10 or 11am? Or close the part of the lot that is closest to the SSR walkway until that time or later?

Sherri
02-24-2005, 10:16 AM
Rather then a person that would get a salary, why don't the bus drivers just ask to see the resort key upon entering the bus. Or if it is also free for Ap holders then they could show that. That just seems like an inexpensive way to handle it if it is a problem. I would have no problem showing my room key everytime I boarded a bus if it meant in the end it was less crowded from people who are not staying at the resort.
Also, I feel like with the prices as high as they are for passes, they should have free parking.

cruise-o-matic
02-24-2005, 10:37 AM
Rather then a person that would get a salary, why don't the bus drivers just ask to see the resort key upon entering the bus. Or if it is also free for Ap holders then they could show that. That just seems like an inexpensive way to handle it if it is a problem. I would have no problem showing my room key everytime I boarded a bus if it meant in the end it was less crowded from people who are not staying at the resort.
Also, I feel like with the prices as high as they are for passes, they should have free parking.


Room key = inconvenience = slower bus loading = longer time to get to destination = less time to spend your $ with Disney. Not to flame, but it has been established that the busses are for anyone staying onsite OR have a park pass.

Free parking?? :rotfl: Disney isn't going to give up that revenue stream.

The only real solutions, IMHO, are: Put a guard shack at the walkway to discourage cheapskates from parking at DTD and walking over to SSR. And starting in the late afternoon/early evening (after the DVC sales center closes at SSR), run busses FROM the parks TO DTD. Maybe they could run busses FROM DTD TO the TTC (or parks after park closing hours) so guests leaving DTD can get back to their cars.

Sherri
02-24-2005, 11:55 AM
Now would believe that a person would start out using their tickets late afternoon if they are so cheap, just to take the bus after the sales office closes? I would think they would want to get their moneys worth from their passes and start out early morning. Do alot of people take advantage of this at DTD? Couldn't someone park at the Boardwalk and walk over to epcot or MGM and take the monorail to the MK? I'm just thinking that would be quicker for them. Oh by the way, we have 10 more days until our trip, and since we are snow bound today, it can't come quick enough!

cruise-o-matic
02-24-2005, 12:24 PM
Resort parking is a different situation since parking at the resorts is more restrictive with guard shacks and parking passes. Not to say that some don't try and abuse resort parking anyway, a la "I have a PS for breakfast at ...." and park in the resort lot all day.

The parking at DTD is free and unrestricted. Disney's response to cheapskates parking at DTD to avoid parking fees is to not run busses directly to the parks. With the proximity of SSR to DTD, the bus-to-bus transfer hassle has been removed.

I think the biggest gripe is the fact that the CM's are now recommending the SSR bus as the best way to DTD, instead of the "official" route of "take bus to any resort then another bus to DTD". So instead of evening out the DTD traffic amongst all the resort busses, the burden of transporting DTDers has shifted to SSR.

I'm not advocating a write in campaign, but if you experieince this problem personally, I would recommend letting the CM's know right away. It's not like they don't like us as it is.....

tjkraz
02-24-2005, 12:30 PM
I think the biggest gripe is the fact that the CM's are now recommending the SSR bus as the best way to DTD, instead of the "official" route of "take bus to any resort then another bus to DTD". So instead of evening out the DTD traffic amongst all the resort busses, the burden of transporting DTDers has shifted to SSR.


The funny thing is that I don't think CMs are necessarily giving people the best advice. An ignorant guest dropped at the CP bus stop would have a lot of trouble trying to find the walking path. Once you know where you are going, getting from the bus stop to the Marketplace is still about a 12-15 minute walk. If you go the other direction toward the West Side you have a longer walk and risk getting lost on the golf cart paths. People trying to reach Pleasure Island easily have a 30 minute walk ahead of them.

I think people would be much better off just taking the dual bus trips.

cruise-o-matic
02-24-2005, 12:59 PM
If I wanted to go to DTD after MK closing, knowing what I know now, I'd do the following: 1) Check the SSR queue. Too full? If so 2) Look for a resort bus queue where I can load immediately. If it is AKL, so be it. If the bus queues are too full, then 3) Walk to the CR and catch the DTD bus from there.

I agree......I may have to change my thinking above but I'm one of those people who hates standing still, even if it may take me a few minutes longer to get to my destination.

nowellsl
02-24-2005, 02:47 PM
I would definately go to another resort before SSR, that way you get taken directly to DTD and wouldn't have to walk from SSR.

SleepyatDVC
02-24-2005, 04:21 PM
Hi! Sorry I didn't read ALL the posts! Don't know if any of my thoughts were brought up yet. Sorry if they were already and shot down! Lol!

Here goes:

Does anybody know how the DVC resorts actually pay for their share of the bus transportation? If it is actually based on usage and the actual number of buses servicing the resort, then I guess there might be an argument on non-DVC members using OUR buses and increasing our dues. I was under the impression, and feel free to correct if I am proven wrong, that DVC pays WDW or other entity to use the entire WDW bus system. I assumed that the dues for transportation are based on either the # of rooms at the resort or the # of possible occupants or some other calculation regardless if anybody at the DVC resort actually uses the buses. If so, it would be a "fixed cost" based on that calculation and it wouldn't matter about the actual usage demand. We would pay the same amount of dues whether WDW decided SSR needed only one bus per hour or if it needed 15 buses per hour.

Many people complain and are upset that non-DVCers get to use our DVC buses. I don't think that we actually own or pay for those specific buses. My impression is that all the individual DVC resorts "buy into" or pay the WDW transportation company to use the ENTIRE WDW transportation system. So, based on my theory, there really are no DVC and non-DVC buses; they are all WDW buses that are assigned to various resorts and locations based on usage patterns. So, I don't think we have exclusive rights to our DVC buses. We have only paid dues to have our DVC resorts INCLUDED in the WDW bus system. Anyone with a multiple day ticket or any WDW resort guest has paid to use the entire WDW transportation system.

Now, I have no idea how the boats figure into my "theory!" Lol! I have a feeling that our member dues actually do pick up the costs of the boats maybe with some subsidies elsewhere.

I agree that I would be uncomfortable in terms of security with the unrestricted access of people walking over from DTD to SSR especially at night. Instead of a manned guard shack, what about a gate that would require a valid SSR room key for access?

I understand DVD would want people to be able to walk over to check SSR out. Maybe they could have posted open house hours where the access gate would be kept unlocked. Or there could be a buzzer on the gate connected to the either the sales office or the front desk so that they can buzz open the gate during sale office hours.

Well here are my 2 cents. Even if many people may have already given up or lost interest in this LOOOOONNNG thread!!! :rotfl: :rotfl2:

sjdisneywedding
02-24-2005, 05:10 PM
I agree that I would be uncomfortable in terms of security with the unrestricted access of people walking over from DTD to SSR especially at night. Instead of a manned guard shack, what about a gate that would require a valid SSR room key for access?

I understand DVD would want people to be able to walk over to check SSR out. Maybe they could have posted open house hours where the access gate would be kept unlocked. Or there could be a buzzer on the gate connected to the either the sales office or the front desk so that they can buzz open the gate during sale office hours.
:


I agree with this part, Ive been saying all along I think is the best way to go.
Wouldnt even have to be an access gate for only SSR guests, all on site guests could pass through, since i doubt they would be using DTD and SSR busses to get to the parks since they can drive right to the parks and they have their own busses to DTD. Meaning they would truly have legit reasons to be there.

I dont think the walkway needs to be open to off site guests at all during the day. if they want to see SSR that badly, then they can drive in and tell the guard that or if they dont have a car then figure out some bus route when you are at the parks lik every single other person does when they want to visit one of the other resorts

Greysword
02-24-2005, 06:23 PM
The gate with card access is a good idea as long as it is accessible to anyone with a current resort ID and/or Annual Pass.

These groups of people are the least likely to park at DTD just to skip the parking charge, since they have free parking anyway at the theme park lots. That means they would have a legitimate reason for being at SSR (the spa, shopping, enjoying the grounds, etc). Other WDW resort guests can take their hotel bus directly to DTD and the Annual Pass holders get special treatment anyway :sunny:

This would also allow those visiting DTD to shop and enjoy the day with the mouse and have a place to park.

My thoughts on those who purchase MYW tickets (so you know my standing on this): Yes, they have the right to use Disney transportation. I do feel those who are not staying on property (or obviously are not investing in an AP) do not deserve to use the transportation system until they are actually ON Disney property (ie parked in a theme park or resort parking lot). The spirit of the MYW access to Disney transportation is so that Park Hoppers may easily and safely move from one them park, restaurant, or event to another and this is after they have paid for access to the WDW grounds (as WDW resort guests and AP holders have already done). There is a reason Disney does not have regular bus service to the DTD hotels, DTD proper nor any other resort outside of the WDW area. If non-Disney hotel/Resort offers shuttle service to the parks, then that should be used exclusively to gain access. If the hotel/resort does not, then pay to park. We all have a choice, and one of the main ammenities for paying a higher premium to stay on Disney property is the use of their transportation system. If a family is not staying on property, then they need to get onto property before their MYW ticket permits transportation, and I have an issue with DTD being used as that conduit.

Now, I have a follow-up question on the gate idea. Would restricted gate access be simply one way (DTD to SSR) or would a key card be required in both directions? Should our active DVC member cards permit access to the SSR grounds as well? What about the Swan and Dolphin room keys? I toured SSR, but I did not get to see the magical bridge :wizard: How would you think such an access point be restricted (how should a gate be built)?


Thank you for listening!

sarhenty
02-24-2005, 06:42 PM
The gate with card access is a good idea as long as it is accessible to anyone with a current resort ID and/or Annual Pass.

These groups of people are the least likely to park at DTD just to skip the parking charge, since they have free parking anyway at the theme park lots. That means they would have a legitimate reason for being at SSR (the spa, shopping, enjoying the grounds, etc). Other WDW resort guests can take their hotel bus directly to DTD and the Annual Pass holders get special treatment anyway :sunny:

This would also allow those visiting DTD to shop and enjoy the day with the mouse and have a place to park.

My thoughts on those who purchase MYW tickets (so you know my standing on this): Yes, they have the right to use Disney transportation. I do feel those who are not staying on property (or obviously are not investing in an AP) do not deserve to use the transportation system until they are actually ON Disney property (ie parked in a theme park or resort parking lot). The spirit of the MYW access to Disney transportation is so that Park Hoppers may easily and safely move from one them park, restaurant, or event to another and this is after they have paid for access to the WDW grounds (as WDW resort guests and AP holders have already done). There is a reason Disney does not have regular bus service to the DTD hotels, DTD proper nor any other resort outside of the WDW area. If non-Disney hotel/Resort offers shuttle service to the parks, then that should be used exclusively to gain access. If the hotel/resort does not, then pay to park. We all have a choice, and one of the main ammenities for paying a higher premium to stay on Disney property is the use of their transportation system. If a family is not staying on property, then they need to get onto property before their MYW ticket permits transportation, and I have an issue with DTD being used as that conduit.

Now, I have a follow-up question on the gate idea. Would restricted gate access be simply one way (DTD to SSR) or would a key card be required in both directions? Should our active DVC member cards permit access to the SSR grounds as well? What about the Swan and Dolphin room keys? I toured SSR, but I did not get to see the magical bridge :wizard: How would you think such an access point be restricted (how should a gate be built)?


Thank you for listening!


Well said, that pretty much sums it up, NICELY!

I wonder if there is a map that shows where that "magical bridge" is? Maybe the SSR map?

Deb & Bill
02-24-2005, 08:07 PM
The gate with card access is a good idea as long as it is accessible to anyone with a current resort ID and/or Annual Pass.

...Now, I have a follow-up question on the gate idea. Would restricted gate access be simply one way (DTD to SSR) or would a key card be required in both directions? Should our active DVC member cards permit access to the SSR grounds as well? What about the Swan and Dolphin room keys? I toured SSR, but I did not get to see the magical bridge :wizard: How would you think such an access point be restricted (how should a gate be built)?


Thank you for listening!

I think I may have been one of the originals who recommended a gate about 900 posters ago. It was my suggestion to gate it so that it required a SSR room ID to open the gate. Why should AP or other resort guests be allowed to wander freely around the SSR grounds? If they want to enter the grounds they should arrive through the front gate, either in a car or on a bus.

But, like VB, I foresee people standing around waiting for someone with the required room ID card to open the gate and they wander in/out after them. I don't think any other resort allows you to wander around the property without appropriate access - oops, take that back, you can wander over to the Polynesian from the TTC, plus over to the GF and back by the path. Maybe they need some gates on those paths as well.

Sammie
02-24-2005, 10:48 PM
Now, I have a follow-up question on the gate idea. Would restricted gate access be simply one way (DTD to SSR) or would a key card be required in both directions? Should our active DVC member cards permit access to the SSR grounds as well? What about the Swan and Dolphin room keys? I toured SSR, but I did not get to see the magical bridge :wizard: How would you think such an access point be restricted (how should a gate be built)?
Thank you for listening!

It would have to be included with a fence or people would just walk around it. At beach resorts on the Gulf you only have to have your room ID to access it from the outside. You can go through it without, but you can't get back in. Of course even with this some will prop it open, but you guys know me :) so when I go through I always close it for them. I am sure they just forgot. :) Same at Vero and Hilton Head.

Actually to me there is no need for anyone to have access to the gate unless they have an SSR resort ID. Any DVC member that wants to come over would not be walking from DD anyway, they would either bus or drive over.

Synonymous
02-25-2005, 12:18 AM
Jeez, don't people have more important things to worry about on vacation than whether or not other guests are "abusing" the bus system? This just seems terribly mean-spirited and selfish. Go ahead and have your fun and don't worry about how other people are having theirs. Is waiting a few extra minutes for a bus really going to make or break your vacation? If it is, then you're probably at the wrong place.

golfnut1264
02-25-2005, 07:51 AM
Golfnut1264,If you think Disney is the most expensive place in the world to vacation, you have not traveled very far. Many places are much more expensive than DW.

sammie...dont take everything so literally in life....and you have no idea were i have travelled....the point was not to try and prove disney as the most exspensive place in the world to travel....to middle class america who cant afford vacations you can take disney is very exspensive.....

3DisneyNUTS
02-25-2005, 09:05 AM
Jeez, don't people have more important things to worry about on vacation than whether or not other guests are "abusing" the bus system? This just seems terribly mean-spirited and selfish. Go ahead and have your fun and don't worry about how other people are having theirs. Is waiting a few extra minutes for a bus really going to make or break your vacation? If it is, then you're probably at the wrong place.
You know what Tom it will! (I thought I was done with this thread but I couldn't resist)AND I will tell you why. My son has epilepsy and sometimes it knocks the crap out of him. Those few extra minutes I have to wait for a bus or stand because some cheap freeloader couldn't pay the $8 to park or upgrade to a park hopper ticket or stay at a onsite resort because someone encouraged them to walk over to my resort and use the bus intended for those who want to enjoy WDW rather than scam it does make a difference for the magic for my family.
A woman yelling at the bus drivers, her family and complaining to other resort guests because she was told a free shuttle was available from the CP bus stop to the Hilton does ruin the magic for us.
Of course is it not mean spirited and selfish of the ones who don't belong on the bus? Why is mean spirited to voice my concerns over the abuse? Don't you think you are putting your judgements on the wrong side of this issue Tom?
Many people have issues in their family (like mine) that require advance planning & one of the reasons we bought into DVC and always enjoy WDW so much is because of how the system works when it is used appropriately. We plan vacations for our son to be enjoyable and I will be damned if I will sit by and watch other people take advantage of something I pay for while they don't just to get free parking.
I guess it doesn't matter to them that they are inconviencing families by THEIR actions. Sure that doesn't matter at all and according to you Tom it shouldn't right! But the ones who speak up about their abuse should be made to feel like the guilty party!
Well Tom hopefully you will never have to worry about holding your worn out child in your arms because he just had a seizure. And thankfully for you this is something you never even have to plan for but unfortunately I DO. So seeing people take up a seat they are not entitled to gets me worried for the future when the resort is at capacity! How selfish of me to worry about my sons needs and being upset when I see abuse :mad: ! How selfish of me! :sad2:

Doctor P
02-25-2005, 09:14 AM
There is another reason that someone could legitimately park at DTD and not be trying to scam the system at all. Let's say that you are staying off-site, have a multi-day ticket and intend to park hop and end the day/night at DTD/Pleasure Island. I don't see anything wrong with parking at DTD, hopping a bus (even if it means walking to SSR) to the first theme park, riding WDW transportation between parks, and then riding transportation back to DTD via SSR. The problem is the transportation system, not the people who use it this way. Perhaps the easiest solution ;) would be to eliminate buses to SSR and just send them to DTD and let the SSR walk back to the resort. Since it is so easy to do this according to this thread, I can't imagine that anyone at SSR would have a problem with this. ;)

Doctor P
02-25-2005, 09:17 AM
3DisneyNUTS,

If this transportation issue is so critical to you and your family given your circumstances, I would gently suggest that using WDW transportation may not be your best option in any case. If you cannot wait in lines, have to be on a particular schedule, and need to minimize transport time, the bus system was probably not meant for you. Perhaps a private driver, or at least a rental car, would meet your needs better.

3DisneyNUTS
02-25-2005, 09:40 AM
3DisneyNUTS,

If this transportation issue is so critical to you and your family given your circumstances, I would gently suggest that using WDW transportation may not be your best option in any case. If you cannot wait in lines, have to be on a particular schedule, and need to minimize transport time, the bus system was probably not meant for you. Perhaps a private driver, or at least a rental car, would meet your needs better.


I don't think it is that severe to warrant cutting out the buses. My son loves the WDW buses. He actually talks more about that than some of the attrctions believe it or not. Thankfully the buses have worked out fine for us in the past. My point in bringing up his situation is that I have to always keep an open ear or eye for things that could affect him negatively. So for Tom to say my paying attention to the bus abuse is mean spirited or selfish how dare he?

Also part of living with epilepsy means that we have to make it a "part" of our lives rather than the focus. In order for my son to experience life as "normally" as possible does not mean altering everything I can. To change our experience to not using the buses would be a negative for him since he enjoys it so much. So rather than cutting that out completely I would chose to go to the park later and leave earlier to avoid the lines and or crowds. Still giving Chris the typical experience that he deserves and enjoys.

Also epilepsy has it peaks and valleys. My son was seizure free for a year and he was diagnosed 1 1/2 years ago with it. So he actually has many seizure free days compared to not. So normally it is not an issue unfortunately on this last trip it was and why I had to pay closer attention to things that may affect our trip and plan accordingly.

Last but not least we have driven to the parks and the whole tram thing and then the tram monorail thing seems to make it more of a hassle for us than just hoping on a bus. So in our experience the busses are an easier mode of transportation for us. We do have a rental car on trips as a back up though. But like this last trip I was hardpressed to even use 1/4 of a tank of gas.

Synonymous
02-25-2005, 10:02 AM
Anybody who has experience with the buses at WDW knows that wait times and seating space vary wildly for a wide variety of reasons. There's no way you can say that "abuse" is the cause of you having to wait a few extra minutes. As Doctor P pointed out, there are other options if a couple of extra minutes wait is something that will make or break your vacation.

And, who are you to say that these folks aren't entitled to a seat on the bus? Where is that rule posted? Disney is telling them to do it, so should they politely decline because it might possibly mean you have to wait a couple more minutes?

If you're going to have your vacation at a place that attracts millions of visitors, you're going to have to realize, and plan for, the fact that those other folks might inconvenience you at some point. Many is the time I've had to wait with a sleeping DD in my arms and wonder where the heck the bus was. Is it frustrating? Sure. Did I blame the other people who were riding the bus for my frustration? No.

Sherri
02-25-2005, 10:04 AM
I hear people mentioning the hopper pass. If you have a hopper pass, are you entitled to use the disney transportation system from any resort for free? Also, i'm going to say that my friend vacationed with other friends of theirs that were DVC members. My friend is not and was staying elsewhere (off property). She was easily able to swim at the Beach Club and use the transportation as well. I'm just suprised at how easy this stuff seems. Why isn't it a big concern to Disney? You would think it would be. I know they can't stop everyone, but more steps could be taken.

Sherri
02-25-2005, 10:08 AM
So Tom just said that Disney tells these people who are not staying on Disney property that is okay to use the transportation. So this doesn't break Disneys rules, then whose rules is it breaking?