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DisneyVirgin
02-03-2005, 08:38 AM
I was wondering - what do people do with their children later evening? Would it be OK to leave the kids (mine are aged 8 and 6) in the cabin on their own? They are not "late birds" and we were wondering about putting them to bed after show and then having an hour by ourselves while they settle and go to sleep. Is there any sort of listening facility on the phone - come to think of it - are there phones in the cabin? I would welcome suggestions.

debtman7
02-03-2005, 08:41 AM
I was wondering - what do people do with their children later evening? Would it be OK to leave the kids (mine are aged 8 and 6) in the cabin on their own? They are not "late birds" and we were wondering about putting them to bed after show and then having an hour by ourselves while they settle and go to sleep. Is there any sort of listening facility on the phone - come to think of it - are there phones in the cabin? I would welcome suggestions.

I think that's up to you and your kids :)

Mine will be 9 and 6, and they are sound sleepers, but I wouldn't be comfortable leaving them alone. Although at this age they rarely wake up and need anything, it still could happen and if they are in a strange environment and we're not there, they'd probably get pretty upset. Plus the younger one might wander...

The kids clubs are open to 12 or 1. From what I've read, they have sleeping mats and show movies late at night, so your kids can fall asleep or settle down while in there late while you have some adult time.

momsgoofy
02-03-2005, 08:46 AM
We allowed DS who was 12 1/2 when we sailed to stay in the room while we went out as well as he went out while we stayed in...also let him stay onboard ship while we spent some time at the adult beach at CC. He did fine, but he is older. I'm not sure about that age...it would have to be your call and the children as youknow your own kids best. I do remember Goofy's Slumber Party happening in the kids' club which might be an alternative.

Laura šoš

mackymaddyconnorsmom
02-03-2005, 08:57 AM
I think it would be up to you. I left my kids in the room for 1/2 hour by themselves (the oldest one is 11) and I was worried the entire time.

fljelad
02-03-2005, 09:07 AM
Personally, I would not leave a child younger than about 12 in a hotel room or cruise ship cabin alone. That's just me though.

cwf1028
02-03-2005, 09:36 AM
My kids are a little younger (7 and 4) and would not consider it at this point. Maybe when they are a little older, however I think the would ifs (the fire alarm, lifeboat emergency, etc) would cause me to have a horrible time even for an hour so I think they would have to be much older for me to consider it (old enough to evacuate on their own).

dizney-cruiser
02-03-2005, 10:00 AM
if you feel your children are mature enought to handle staying by themselves, i would just leave them in the room with a two way radio - that way if they needed you (ie, they wake up) they could simply contact you and you could get back to them

Mickeyhugger
02-03-2005, 10:02 AM
We left our 9 1/2 year-old DD in the room alone one night after our late-dinner seating. We'd had a very busy day on the water trampoline in St. Maarten, and she fell asleep at the dinner table that night. She would've been miserable in the oceaneer's lab, being as tired as she was. (She'd stayed in the stateroom for short periods of time before.) DH and I attended the tropical night party after taking her to the room. One of us went to the room approximately every 20 minutes to check on her. We were out for about an hour. She did fine. I think, though, that it's up to each parent, and how comfortable they are with the situation, and how well they know their child.

JonJehrio
02-03-2005, 11:16 AM
I think with enough Duct Tape any child could be safely left alone in the cabin. I would reccomend 1 role for each hour you expect to be gone. That is per child. :rotfl:

needAcruise
02-03-2005, 11:26 AM
Another use for the versatile duct tape! :rotfl:

crisi
02-03-2005, 11:46 AM
That is why a lot of us book verandas. Tuck the kids in and sit with a glass of wine out on the deck.

You may also want to know that the curtain between the bunks and bed is pretty good. You can sit in your cabin and read while the kids fall asleep. However, the TV is on their side and the noise still comes through.

As for leaving them, that is up to you and your comfort level. Do your kids tend to wake up at night? Waking up in a strange place can be very scary when you are six. The ship can be a place of strange loud noises (for instance when someone thinks your cabin is theirs and tries to bang their way in) and movement.

Six seems young to me. The kids club does pull out movies and mats, and there is a room full of sleeping kids (and some watching movies) at 11:00pm.

cypress_star
02-03-2005, 12:39 PM
On our last cruise my DD was 8 on 2 nights after dinner and shows, DH and I put her to bed probably around 10:30-11:00ish and we would go to one of the clubs onboard for an hour or so. She had no problem staying in the cabin watching cartoons. Each night she was sound alseep when we got back. Like the other posts have been stating it is something that is strictly between the parents and child.

We cruise again this Sunday and she already has told us, that she would be fine if Dad and I wanted to do that again. We also have triplets that are 4 yrs older than her and would check in on her or if they took her to the pool area or something would leave us a note.

It worked very very well and we plan to do it again.

As for the Kids Clubs, my children weren't that impressed with them. The older ones we allowed to have the privilege to check themselves in or out and they mostly stayed out. My younger seemed to page us so much that we finally just didn't try to put her in anymore.

Good luck!

zeldacruiser
02-03-2005, 02:36 PM
I think the key would be those two-way radios one poster mentioned. Otherwise, there would be no way for the kids to find you if they woke up sick or something.

scrapperjill
02-03-2005, 03:18 PM
I could be wrong...but if you have one of the pagers from the kids clubs...the kids could always page you if they woke up and needed you. Just incase that dosn't work the two way raidos would be the way to go. You may also want to let the kids know you may be out of the room for a short time...Maybe talk with them ahead of time (before your cruise dates)..and simply let them know after they go to bed you may go to an adult club for a short time...but if your needed for any reason...do this...and let them know how to reach youit would also be wise to give them rules to follow while in the cabin alone...ie don't answer the door for anyone...and don't leave the cabin to search for us. That way if they should wake up they won't be so worried or scared as to why or where are mom and dad. But keep in mind the Oceaneers club does have "quiet" time in the evening with movies and mats.

DrCavin
02-03-2005, 04:08 PM
I don't think they could page you, unless they called/went to the kids club & asked a CM to do it??? Like the other posters have said, you could sign them into a club & if they get sleepy they can sleep there. They seemed to move the sleepy ones into a different room that was part of the club. It was fairly quiet in there, so they could rest or sleep.

To the OP, there is nothing stopping you from leaving them in the room... would be your personal choice.....

kar313
02-03-2005, 07:43 PM
I definitely think it is an individual thing for each child and family. My DS15 was very mature at 8/9 and would probably have done fine. But I am not sure I would leave my DS10 alone for any length of time even now.
I probably wouldn't leave mine alone in the cabin unless I thought they were old enough to leave alone at home.

mrsg00fy
02-03-2005, 07:49 PM
ask yourself--would you leave them home alone at night and go out? what is the difference? some of the other posters had excellent suggestions. for instance, the kids club is something your children will likely enjoy immensely. tired or not--my son wanted to close the club every night (at 1 am when he was 7 and 8 years old.) also, the idea of the verandah was a good one. this is just my opinion. my kids are now 6 and 9 and i would not feel comfortable leaving them in the cabin alone.

3xthecharm
02-03-2005, 08:56 PM
If you would not leave them alone at home at this age, I would not leave them alone on the ship. MHO.

GoofyFD
02-03-2005, 09:13 PM
I say 6 is to young. But that is only me. I would be stressed out leaving her in the room at that age. :sad2: Now we left them at the kids club till 1ish that was good. :banana: hope that helps

happytraveler65
02-03-2005, 09:21 PM
My friend and her DH made reservations for Palo one night, her 2 DD (5) & (7) did not want to do the Kids Club since they had done it earlier in the day, so my friend ordered room service and once the meal came her and her DH went for dinner. The girls knew how to reach them if needed but felt awfully grown up. This was the first time she did this and the girls were fine. I also believe that it is a personal choice. :earsgirl:

Mickeyhugger
02-03-2005, 09:51 PM
Our 9 year-old DD did NOT like the clubs, and was much better off (we know her better than anyone) in the stateroom, in bed, doors locked, lights dimly lit, drifting asleep while DH checked in on her every so often. The oceaneer's lab was the last place she wanted to be.

No, DH and I would not leave her at home alone at night to go out UNLESS, we were at a next-door neighbor's house, or across the street, doing the same thing, checking on her, doors securely locked, walkie-talkies,etc. We were in close proximity of the stateroom when we were at the deck party.

I think each parent and each child/situation is different, and only a parent knows what's best for their child. ;)

CruisingCA2005
02-03-2005, 09:52 PM
On our cruise, we ran into a couple who had left their 2 year old asleep in the room. My heart dropped when I realized they weren't kidding.

jrp
02-03-2005, 10:42 PM
In the state of Florida this is known as CHILD ABUSE. An adult should use better judgement in leaving children of this age in a room on board a ship.. Use the kids club as they are open late also.. Remember even in fun there is always someone out there watching, no matter what age you must think in terms of what would my parents have dome in this situation..IMHO :earseek:

HappyLawyer
02-03-2005, 10:58 PM
I agree with others only you can make that decision, and for something of this level i would not take anyones advice, just remember anything could or could not happen, if i may offer you a suggestion, find a thread with your cruise days and make friends, perhaps someone with kids could keep an eye or check with the dcl and see if they offer any type of sitter services on the ship, i do understand the need for some alone time, trust me, but remember the ages of the kids and especially if they wake up looking for u
good luck

suesings
02-03-2005, 11:45 PM
Does Disney actually allow parents to leave young children alone in rooms? I thought it was illegal in hotels to do this? Like Las Vegas, Tahoe, etc. I thought you could be arrested for doing that?

We have two young daughters and definitely would not leave them. I know that no matter how many times you tell your children not to open the door, now and then they do it. They are innocent and don't understand the real concept of someone hurting them. Knock at the door or someone says room service, your parents told me to come get you, etc. I'm not sure a young child is capable of always making the right call. They have no lreal ife perspective. Not to mention a boat fire, emergency, etc.

It would be much to scary for us and them. Plus I would be way to embarrassed to run into crew or other passengers we had met and actually tell them we left our young children in the room alone. But if they were 12 or older I think that would probably be okay (depending on the child of course).

Sue
:flower:

scrapperjill
02-04-2005, 12:07 AM
As for Flordia State law...and child abuse...while on the ship your not in Flordia nor under any of their laws. Your in international waters at some points and fall under all kinds of diffrent laws. But that's besides the point.

I do think there is a way to use the club pagers on your own....without having the "club CM" do the paging. The pager number is right on the side of the pager. Of course your child would have to be old enough to understand how a pager works and how they would go about sending a page.

Also....I totally disagree with the statement on "would you leave your kids at home alone and go out"...it's SOOOOO diffrent. Your on the ship...not down town miles away from home. And as for someone breaking in or what not...it's not like you have a bunch of windows that could be broken out. Myself I don't think I would be comfortable leaving a child in a room with a verhanda...no matter what age...or how many children there were, nor would I leave them if I didn't think they were old enough to understand not to open the door for anyone....with out the password....just like you would tell your children at home not to go with anyone any where unless they knew the secret family code word.

We never left our kids in the room at night alone and went out...but there were times when we had to leave the adult clubs because it was time for the kids clubs to close...for some reason the kids clubs close an hour or two before the adult clubs close...

jdm
02-04-2005, 01:32 AM
I agree it's different on the ship than when you're at home. Like all things, it depends on the child and their maturity level etc. I found the age 5 & 7 post a little disturbing. I view children that age as babies, and couldn't imagine leaving them alone in a stateroom. I don't know, everyone is different I guess :)

My daughter is 12 and I'd feel comfortable with her hanging out in the stateroom if she wants to. My DGD is 7 and I don't think I'd leave her with DD. What if there was some kind of emergency or evacuation drill? Doubtful I know, but with my luck.....!! I wouldn't want DD to have that kind of responsibility. I just don't feel right about it, not sure why. I always go with my gut feeling on these things.

Jenn

Red71
02-04-2005, 02:12 AM
When I was 18 and a senior in High School I went with my parents to visit a college . We were going to stay over night and because I had my own job and money and thought I was so grown:rolleyes: up I wanted to have my own room. It wound up being quite a bit down the hall from my parents. I was watching TV and I heard a key in the door. The oldfashoned kind of key. I screamed a scream that I didn't know I was capabable of, I scrambeled to the phone and called my parents room. Crying gasping telling my mom what happened. My father quickly came to check and found a wayward drunk stumbeling the hall with his key, the hotel had a restaurant/bar and he had too much. My father steered him to hi room came to my room and talked to me thru the door, then I opened it he talked to me & went back to his room. then I called my mom and felt better.

I was terrified being 18 and hearing someone tring to get in my room. What if someone makes an innocent mistake with the door. My girls do often when we are in a "hallway hotel" they make a mad dash the last few doors each one wanting to be in our room first. What about people being loud in the hallway? I have read so many posts about the teens who knock on doors too. What if the cabin steward wants to go in your room? What if your children were afraid and you or any grown up wasn't there to make them feel safe? I'm awake now because DD7 had a couple of bad dreams and I want to make sure she is settled in before I go back to sleep.

ClarabelleCow
02-04-2005, 07:23 AM
I am having a hard time letting my almost 13 stay in the room with my 5 year old son and 6 year old neice! But she babysits him at home, so this really isn't an issue. For the younger kids, I say be the parents and put them in the clubs at night for a few hours so you can enjoy yourselves, just because little susie doesn't like it, shouldn't be the reason you don't enjoy yourselves and put her at risk. They play games and then crash watching movies, were not talking endless hours, who knows, once they get in, they may find that they enjoy it!

Mickeyhugger
02-04-2005, 07:27 AM
While I still think it depends on the age of the child, responsibility level, parents, situation, I think the orginial poster's children are too young. I wouldn't leave a child in charge of another child. Our DD didn't stay in the cabin alone on our first two cruises. I was appalled when I read the post about the parents who left a two-year old. OMG. What if that poor child had awoken and been terrified wondering where Mommy and Daddy were?

married2grumpy
02-04-2005, 07:50 AM
Wow, when I read this thread I thought it was a joke. As I continued to read, I couldn't believe that it wasn't. I personally would never leave my kids alone in the room for any period of time, whether sleeping or awake.

I don't care how "mature" people think their kids are, 8 & 6 is way too young to be left alone. Again, this is my opinion.

I love my children with all my heart (as I'm sure you all do!) and no "free time" for my DH and I is worth leaving them unattended like that. The chances of something happening is very, very slim but why take the chance? The kids clubs are open until 12 so that parents do not have to leave their children unattended.

I think rather than asking would you leave them home alone at night at this age you should ask yourself, would they be able to get on their lifevests and get to their muster stations without your help and would you want them to?

I know that scenario is a little extreme but there is always the what if. This is my opinion and I don't think less of anyone who thinks it is the right decision for them. We all parent differently. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so worried about them!

Enjoy your trip and you do what feels right for you. :)

Sue Sullivan
02-04-2005, 09:38 AM
I would never dream of leaving my children alone in their room. Why take the chance for an hour out and about, not worth it in my opinion. Would have to kill myself if something terrible happened to them and it was my fault for leaving them unattended.

crisi
02-04-2005, 09:46 AM
Can I please get a cite on the Florida law? I'm not a lawyer, but spent some time researching this issue, and I'd love to see actual verbage in a law.

LAMPSKIES
02-04-2005, 09:51 AM
Check them into the "lab" get a pager and if you leave them and they get up and need you they can find a CM that can page you.....

Mickeyhugger
02-04-2005, 09:59 AM
I think international laws prevail on this one, not Florida's. :confused3

It's probably better to call DCL direct, regarding their policies.

deedz
02-04-2005, 10:04 AM
Though the law varies from state to state, the minimum age requirement for unattended children is generally 12 or 13 years of age. The National SAFE KIDS Campaign, a national organization dedicated to child safety, recommends that kids not be left alone before the age of 12.

And I think thats too young!
It only takes one time for something to happen, I personally am NOT willing to take that chance.

Just my opinion.

i12go2wdw
02-04-2005, 10:43 AM
We cruised when ds was 11 and dd was 7 months (we also have dd8 and ds 5). We were just finishing our dessert one night and dd started to cry so ds offered to go ahead and take her to our room while we finished up, maybe 5 minutes, as we were walking down to our room ds was coming up with dd. He had been told by our room steward that he could not be in the room alone with dd because the steward was ultimatly responsible for them if he knew they were there alone. At first I was a little angry but that passed quickly as I realized he had a point and did not know how long we would be gone. We talked to him and let him know the situation and thanked him for watching out for them. When we told him that DS was 11 he said had he known that he would not have said anything because that is considered and OK age to be alone (ds is very short for his age). I would not feel comfortable leaving them alone for very long at that age but I knew we were hot on his heels and he is like a second father to dd even now. He will be almost 13 this trip and I will be leaving him with all the kids whenever he is slow enough for me to catch him :rotfl:

kellimomo3
02-04-2005, 10:50 AM
Okay, I know this is a Disney cruise but are people really naive enough to believe that out of the 3000+ "strangers" on board there are no pedafiles?? An 8 and 6 year old are not old enough to make good judgements should a situation arrise. The kid's clubs on board are wonderful and are open late enough that this should not be an issue. On our cruise I saw many children wondering around by themseves. I was particularly troubled by a young girl I met in the elevators. She was all alone around 10:00 at night. I asked her is she was having fun and how old she was. She was SEVEN! She said she was having fun but got scared by a noise she heard in her cabin and was going to look for her parents. I asked her if she was allowed to be wandering around by herself and she said yes and seemed unfazed. I must say I was very shocked at judgemental that any parent would leave a seven year old alone on the ship. Just my opinion, but my kids are the most valuable thing I own!!

Kelli

suesings
02-04-2005, 11:10 AM
Kellimomo3 - Isn't that something you can report to one of the crew members? I know when I am at the mall and I see a young child who looks lost, I always try to help them. One time we found two young (5 & 3) girls running through a large mall scared and we took them to the information booth and waited until they found their parents.
I would think those parents would get in some sort of trouble for leaving their 7 year old unattended and roaming the ship? The statistics are 1 in 4 girls will be molested. If there are 3,000 people on the ship there will DEFINITELY be someone who finds children attractive (sickly).

I don't know what the difference is between letting your 7 year old roam a ship and letting them roam a shopping mall by themself? The police would be called if you did the latter.

cjsmith
02-04-2005, 11:26 AM
Though the law varies from state to state, the minimum age requirement for unattended children is generally 12 or 13 years of age. The National SAFE KIDS Campaign, a national organization dedicated to child safety, recommends that kids not be left alone before the age of 12.

And I think thats too young!
It only takes one time for something to happen, I personally am NOT willing to take that chance.

Just my opinion.

While these may be the laws in the USA, the ships are in international waters and these won't apply. I wonder if there are any laws regarding leaving a child unattened at sea as it does differ from leaving a child unattended at your home.
In my humble opinion, it probably boils down to something between each parent and child. Each child is different and each parent is different in their parenting skills and beliefs. There are going to be those who leave their child alone and those who don't, it's really a personal issue deep down. I personally wouldn't leave such young kids alone, especially if there was a balcony in the cabin, but that's just me, that's what I think.

jrabbit
02-04-2005, 11:30 AM
Remember even in fun there is always someone out there watching, no matter what age you must think in terms of what would my parents have dome in this situation..IMHO what would my parents have dome in this situation ... Thats part of the "problem". If you are in your 40's (like me) when I was 6 or 8 years old I was going "whereever" I wanted by my self. I think that a lot of us that were under age 10 in the 60's had a lot of freedom because life wasn't nearly as scarry then as it is now. This applies in the big cities and out in the rural country. Some parents still are clueless as to what real dangers lurk in out society everywhere. You would think that the younger parents (you know late 20's and early 30's) would be MORE paranoid about leaving their children unattended.

All that being said, I think that the DCL's cruise ship enviornment is a little different than the "real world." Yep, with 3000+ people onboard there is going to be crime and has the potiential of some very horrific crimes (rape, molestation, kidnapping). It's quite likely that the demographic makeup of the guests are such that onboard we are actually safer from those type of crimes than off of the ship. A large percentage of pedophilia occurs inside of family groups (offender and victim are related to each other).

With my children, sitting here at home I think that I could have left them alone at those ages in the stateroom on the ship (as long as one of them was at least 8). Being on board and "in the moment" and having to make that decision, I might not do it.

Mickeyhugger
02-04-2005, 11:39 AM
This would be a good question for DCL re having children unattended.

If children are able to sign themselves out at the Oceaneer's lab at age 9, then that's probably the same age for which they permit them to stay alone in the rooms?

I'm glad there are so many protective parents out there, but am sadder for the children of the ones who are negligent and careless. How awful for that 7 year-old. I cringe when I think I think of children being frightened.

starwood
02-04-2005, 11:44 AM
What if there were a problem on the ship and they had to put on their life vests and get to lifeboat station? There are a lot of adults that would have a problem doing that and 2 sleepy children would never be able to accomplish that alone. You may not be able to get to the cabin to assist or you may be delayed because of people in the halls trying to get to their stations. I think that is just too worrysome for my blood.

crisi
02-04-2005, 11:53 AM
Actually jrabbit, life was just as scary. Crime has actually gone down. We do a much better job now tracking and prosecuting pedophiles. The difference, the media didn't cover it (at least not often), media was local (so we would have never heard of Laci Peterson here in the Midwest), and a lot of the child crimes were covered up (mandatory stab at the Catholic Church). People didn't prosecute their "odd uncle" but hid (and often just denied) the family secret. And now with milk cartons, national alert systems, every child abduction is well known.

Crimes against children performed by strangers is statistically rare. As you said, its most often someone you know. The question is, do you want to risk even rare with your kids. Your kid has a better chance of having a serious bike injury, but most of us let them ride bikes. Risk is something each parent has to evaluate for themselves.

As I said, I'm not a lawyer. But I do know something about this topic. You won't find international law covering this - cultures vary far too much - when children as young as four work twelve hour days in factories in Asia, international lawyers aren't worried about leaving a six year old sleeping alone on a cruise ship. State laws are written intentionally vague....it allows a social worker to have leeway. After all, leaving a responsible twelve year old home for several hours is far different than leaving one that is mentally disabled alone - age is not the only indicatation of maturity. Leaving a responsible eight year old alone in the house for the ten minutes from the time he gets off the schoolbus until you get home from work every day is different from leaving a child in a "trash house" for two hours while you hang out in the bar. Guidelines generally include age and maturity and length of time, as well as "can the child reach help like a neighbor" and "will the child be required to feed himself."

Also, if everyone would keep in mind that not everyone has great choices. A lot of parents leave younger children home alone because they have no choices regarding afforable day care or other responsbile adults taking care of their kids. Obviously, this doesn't hold on a cruise ship, but I know many kids who became latchkey kids much younger than twelve out of financial necessity. State laws tend to understand this as well and that is another reason they are purposefully vague. I'm sure there are thousands of Florida moms who leave their elementary age kids alone for several hours each day until they get home from work. The other options - state provided daycare or state provided welfare - haven't gone over great with the taxpayers. I really wish the people who got excited about this topic would lobby their state governments to demand that our children are cared for properly - even if it costs us as a society more.

There, off my political soapbox.

Mickeyhugger
02-04-2005, 12:05 PM
Very well said crisi and jrabbit. :earsgirl:

kellimomo3
02-04-2005, 12:18 PM
Just to clarify...not only did that 7 year old not appear frightened, she seemed to be used to roaming the halls alon AND I saw many more children alone during the course of our week on the Magic that looked to be around the same age.
If she had appeared frightened or lost, I would have escorted her to guest services or the club to have her parents paged.

Kelli

grlzmom
02-04-2005, 12:35 PM
After our own personal bad experience, I wont leave the teenagers alone with younger siblings in the room. While I feel they can be responsible for themselves (and even their siblings while at home on familiar territory), being responsible for themselves and a sibling in a different environment is just not a good idea.

In August while visiting Great Wolf Lodge, (we had had a wonderful day at the waterpark, kids were exhausted). Back to the room, 22 month twins asleep, dd15 and dd13 1/2 watching t.v.. I leave the room to go and get them some cocoa. (approximately 2 minute walk down the hallway and they know exactly where I am). Stupid me thinking this is safe, after all they are both babysitter trained, cpr, first aid, the whole nine yards. While getting the drinks, alarms begin going off, doors closing, building being evacuated and I am NOT allowed back down my hallway.

Apparently there was a bomb threat and the entire building/area was cleared and each room was evacuated. I am shuffled out the front door and where are my kids? Well, they were of course a little panicked but level headed and took the babies out the appropriate exit door and waited, meanwhile I waited for the building to be cleared and be given permission to walk around the outside of it to locate the kids,(this took approximately 45 minutes due to crowds, dark and confusion). All was fine (but both girls were exhausted from trying to comfort the babies and carry them the whole time). But, lesson learned. You can plan for many things, but there are just some variables you cannot control.

Please don't flame me. I am only sharing this that others might reconsider who gets left in the stateroom :)

JJsmama
02-04-2005, 01:03 PM
Do you really need the LAW to tell you it is unacceptable to leave a child unattended on a huge ship full of strangers in the middle of the ocean?

I'm sorry, but the original poster asked our opinion... We recently cruised and my husband and I never saw the inside of any adult club or took part in any evening activities because our children were sleeping. Neither of us ever considered that going out was more important than our childrens' safety. Had we been determined to go out at night, we would have left the kids in the club where they would be safe.

crisi
02-04-2005, 01:50 PM
No JJsmama, you don't need the law. But if people are going to say its illegal, I'd like to see some cites to back that up. Law is a matter of fact. What we have here is a matter of opinion. I'm fine with people whose opinion is "I'll leave my two year old asleep" (I'll think they are poor parents, but that is my opinion) or "I won't leave my sixteen year old alone" (you know your kid, but I hope those apron strings will cut when they leave for college, once again, only my opinion). I'm not fine with "that's illegal" and "turn them in" unless someone is ready to cite legal code.

MdmMim
02-04-2005, 02:10 PM
Okay, I know this is a Disney cruise but are people really naive enough to believe that out of the 3000+ "strangers" on board there are no pedafiles??

Many times on these boards, I see people posting their children's ages, gender, cruise dates, and cabin numbers. I shudder!! We have no way of knowing a creep from a normal person. How would you know if a weirdo was keeping an eye on your room/kids? Suppose the creep saw you leave, then decided to knock on the cabin door, saying, "Room Service from Mickey!!" or used some other ploy to get the kids to open the door.

Way too much can happen if children are left alone. I'd rather be safe than sorry. JMHO

jdm
02-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Well! Now, that's a different spin and quite a good point! Something I had never, ever, thought about.

I've enjoyed this thread and everyones views. I thought Jrabbit made excellents points (being in my 40's myself) but Crisi's counter was very thoughtprovoking and true also.

That's what is so great about these boards, so many different takes and opinions. It's wonderful to part of this board community!!

Jenn

gshoemate
02-04-2005, 03:22 PM
Many times on these boards, I see people posting their children's ages, gender, cruise dates, and cabin numbers. I shudder!! We have no way of knowing a creep from a normal person. How would you know if a weirdo was keeping an eye on your room/kids? Suppose the creep saw you leave, then decided to knock on the cabin door, saying, "Room Service from Mickey!!" or used some other ploy to get the kids to open the door.

Way too much can happen if children are left alone. I'd rather be safe than sorry. JMHO

::yes::

Very well said. I know on our last cruise I went up on deck around 11:00 p.m. It was a windy night and there was only me and another man on the whole deck and I felt way uncomfortable. You just never know what is in another persons head and I am not willing to risk anything happening to my children.

marv
02-04-2005, 03:45 PM
This is an interesting topic and there are lots of opinions on it. My opinion is that my own children will be 14 ,12,12 on are forthcoming trip, ime happy for them to have their own room to sleep in as long as it it is next door or has joining doors. The 2 12 year old's will be allowed to go off, if its to a certain area, but not just wondering around on the ship and they must stay together. This is not because ime worrying about the many pedo's that may be on the ship, this is because i know my children and i know they are happier with some rules and boundries. My 14 yr old will be aloud to go off but again i want to know where she is, how long she will be,and what time she will be back.
Really it will be know different than at home the only thing that will be is that they will have their own little private room where they can have some fun, feel grown up and order theirself some room service.

I wouldn't of allowed my children to wonder around the ship at 6,7 or 8yrs

I know it's so hard to let your children grow and be free but i believe that are own fears could get in the way of allowing are chilren to develop in a normal way. We cant wrap them up in cotton wool forever.

Cruella
02-04-2005, 03:57 PM
If you are bringing your children, then it is a family vacation. Why would you even leave them alone? They never have to be alone, as their are activities for them 16 hours a day! It would not be worth it for me to have a couple cocktails, I could have them on my verandah!! On our last cruise, DH and myself and dd, did everything together. We never even got to go to a club because she was sleeping at the dinner table every night. So we brought her back to cabin and relaxed there.
Also, the other night at my home DS (14) was sleepwalking!!! He walked right into my room and was talking, making no sense at all and then tried to get into DD's toddler Bed!!! This has never happened to him before, so it could happen to anyone at any time!!! Imagine one of your children wondering down the hall or going out to your balcony?
Also, when we first entered the cabin on the ship, DD stood on the table by the railing, So that said, Why would you think that nothing could happen to your children??
Take advantage of the free babysitting!!

Cruella
02-04-2005, 04:06 PM
My friend and her DH made reservations for Palo one night, her 2 DD (5) & (7) did not want to do the Kids Club since they had done it earlier in the day, so my friend ordered room service and once the meal came her and her DH went for dinner. The girls knew how to reach them if needed but felt awfully grown up. This was the first time she did this and the girls were fine. I also believe that it is a personal choice. :earsgirl:

Your friend left your kids alone in the room with food? Call me paranoid, but weren't you worried that they could have choked?

Cruella
02-04-2005, 04:10 PM
As I keep reading the replies on this post, I am absolutely beside myself. I had a friend who threw up in his sleep and choked to death. Do you people actually believe that nothing could happen to your children when they are left alone? Sleeping or not? Well you're wrong. That is why they are called "Children" and "Children" need guidance. We are responsible for them.

marv
02-04-2005, 04:13 PM
I would like to just point out that we will be traveling 9 hours to take our children to the next vacation and even though we will be on the other side of the world the natural thing that my children will want is to spend time with other children.
Wether it be a a family vacation, it will be their vacation too. So they will want to go off and do the clubs and things and wont need myself and DH around. I would love them to want to spend every waking minute with me and DH, but as they get older they naturally want to spread their wings.
I think as long as ime aware of where they are and if i have too keep checking on them to stop me from worrying,then i will as long as they are doing what they want on their vacation.

kaseyC
02-04-2005, 04:22 PM
Many times on these boards, I see people posting their children's ages, gender, cruise dates, and cabin numbers. I shudder!! We have no way of knowing a creep from a normal person. How would you know if a weirdo was keeping an eye on your room/kids? Suppose the creep saw you leave, then decided to knock on the cabin door, saying, "Room Service from Mickey!!" or used some other ploy to get the kids to open the door.

Way too much can happen if children are left alone. I'd rather be safe than sorry. JMHO

Not only that, we also need to remember that many of the ships employees - such as your room steward, head of housekeeping and maintenance have master keys to your cabin. There are "bad" employees out there who could also be watching you and your children. If you are leaving the kids sleeping in the cabin, you are definately not using the extra security deadbolt or you would not be able to get back into your cabin.

As parents we just need to be aware of all the possibilities and risks to our children. Bottom line, you are on a ship with about 3000 strangers.

marv
02-04-2005, 04:51 PM
Cruella

Is your 14 yr Ds happy to sleep in room with parents, i know mine isn't.

crisi
02-04-2005, 04:52 PM
As I keep reading the replies on this post, I am absolutely beside myself. I had a friend who threw up in his sleep and choked to death. Do you people actually believe that nothing could happen to your children when they are left alone? Sleeping or not? Well you're wrong. That is why they are called "Children" and "Children" need guidance. We are responsible for them.

So you co sleep with your kids in case they choke in the middle of the night. Wow! You are a way better parent than I am. I sleep across the hall, and I really doubt I'd wake up in time to perform the Heimlich manuveur.

mrsg00fy
02-04-2005, 04:54 PM
there are a lot of very thought provoking takes on this issue. i, for one, am more convinced than ever, in fact downright scared--to even consider leaving the kids alone.
to me, it is not an issue of what is legal versus not. it is a matter of common sense. children are our most precious blessings and responsibilities. yes, we need to teach them right from wrong and to ultimately exercise their own good judgment. we need to let go at some point. but--on a ship, in the middle of nowhere, with several thousand unknown people, in close quarters, who can see who goes in and out of cabins and with others who have access to your cabins!? why would one ever take a chance of something happening?
i simply cannot understand why anyone would take the risk of leaving a young child unattended. i wouldn't let my child sign out of the club at age 8 , when the ship would have allowed it. i trust my son, but he is a child. i don't trust what i don't know--as in the other people who could hurt him in any way. others have brought up thoughts--choking? sleepwalking? an emergency evacuation? these things are not probable, but they are possible.
when you make your final decision, please take all of this into account.

deedz
02-04-2005, 05:01 PM
I was wondering - what do people do with their children later evening? Would it be OK to leave the kids (mine are aged 8 and 6) in the cabin on their own? They are not "late birds" and we were wondering about putting them to bed after show and then having an hour by ourselves while they settle and go to sleep. Is there any sort of listening facility on the phone - come to think of it - are there phones in the cabin? I would welcome suggestions.

Can you or Should You?

On a Ship with 3000 strangers! Never.
I applaud DCL for having late night kid clubs, rooms with sofas and verandahs, 24/7 room service, and probably the most Family oriented activities and guests.

I chose this cruise line thinking about when my child needs to go to bed and we want to continue to stay up and enjoy our vacation, hence the extra $$$ for the balcony room!

Think about the "What If's" ...

Life is too Precious. JMO

Cruella
02-04-2005, 07:03 PM
Cruella

Is your 14 yr Ds happy to sleep in room with parents, i know mine isn't.
Every kid is different. One 14 year old may be more mischevious than another. SO it is the parents choice if they are in your room or not. Maybe your 14 year old son is more mature than mine.

Cruella
02-04-2005, 07:05 PM
So you co sleep with your kids in case they choke in the middle of the night. Wow! You are a way better parent than I am. I sleep across the hall, and I really doubt I'd wake up in time to perform the Heimlich manuveur.
Where is this coming from? I never said my children sleep with me! You need to re-read what I said!!

flexsmom
02-04-2005, 08:29 PM
Are you people crazy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I keep reading the replies on this post, I am absolutely beside myself. I had a friend who threw up in his sleep and choked to death. Do you people actually believe that nothing could happen to your children when they are left alone? Sleeping or not? Well you're wrong. That is why they are called "Children" and "Children" need guidance. We are responsible for them.

Sorry, Cruella, but I interpreted what you said the same way that Crisi did - I think her point was to question what you seemed to suggest - that we "responsible" adults should be with children every single moment since something could happen to them at any moment. But how many of us hang out in our kids rooms every 5 minutes to see if they're choking? Give me a break - we wouldn't know until morning!? That doesn't make me a bad parent. So, while I think I understand the point of your post, I'm not sure I agree with the analogy.

To the OP, we were fortunate and had my parents in the adjoining stateroom to us. They go to bed earlier than us - around 9pm or so, and so once my kids were asleep and mom and dad were ready to settle in, we would go out and leave the door ajar between the two rooms. Of course, my parents went to sleep and weren't monitoring every motion of the kids, but since I'd say that's pretty much the same level of oversight they get when we're sleeping at night at home, I thougt that was responsible enough of us and we went out for a while. Yes, it was a "family vacation", but that didn't negate the value my husband and I put on some quality husband/wife time out - with my kids getting the rest they needed to ensure they didn't have a meltdown the next day. (We were lucky to have mom and dad there, I know.)

GoofyFD
02-04-2005, 11:04 PM
Wow, when I read this thread I thought it was a joke. As I continued to read, I couldn't believe that it wasn't. I personally would never leave my kids alone in the room for any period of time, whether sleeping or awake.

I don't care how "mature" people think their kids are, 8 & 6 is way too young to be left alone. Again, this is my opinion.

I love my children with all my heart (as I'm sure you all do!) and no "free time" for my DH and I is worth leaving them unattended like that. The chances of something happening is very, very slim but why take the chance? The kids clubs are open until 12 so that parents do not have to leave their children unattended.

I think rather than asking would you leave them home alone at night at this age you should ask yourself, would they be able to get on their lifevests and get to their muster stations without your help and would you want them to?

I know that scenario is a little extreme but there is always the what if. This is my opinion and I don't think less of anyone who thinks it is the right decision for them. We all parent differently. Sometimes I wish I wasn't so worried about them!

Enjoy your trip and you do what feels right for you. :)


I think you said it all with that SCENARIO!!!!!!
Good job and Amen

Cruella
02-05-2005, 07:14 AM
Are you people crazy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I keep reading the replies on this post, I am absolutely beside myself. I had a friend who threw up in his sleep and choked to death. Do you people actually believe that nothing could happen to your children when they are left alone? Sleeping or not? Well you're wrong. That is why they are called "Children" and "Children" need guidance. We are responsible for them.

Sorry, Cruella, but I interpreted what you said the same way that Crisi did - I think her point was to question what you seemed to suggest - that we "responsible" adults should be with children every single moment since something could happen to them at any moment. But how many of us hang out in our kids rooms every 5 minutes to see if they're choking? Give me a break - we wouldn't know until morning!? That doesn't make me a bad parent. So, while I think I understand the point of your post, I'm not sure I agree with the analogy.

To the OP, we were fortunate and had my parents in the adjoining stateroom to us. They go to bed earlier than us - around 9pm or so, and so once my kids were asleep and mom and dad were ready to settle in, we would go out and leave the door ajar between the two rooms. Of course, my parents went to sleep and weren't monitoring every motion of the kids, but since I'd say that's pretty much the same level of oversight they get when we're sleeping at night at home, I thougt that was responsible enough of us and we went out for a while. Yes, it was a "family vacation", but that didn't negate the value my husband and I put on some quality husband/wife time out - with my kids getting the rest they needed to ensure they didn't have a meltdown the next day. (We were lucky to have mom and dad there, I know.)
You were lucky to have your parents right there, and that is something I would have done also, adjoining rooms are the best!
You still don't get what I have posted, Maybe I should re write, because I have got more than a few comments.
One couple had given a 7 & 5 year old room service and they went out for the night and left them alone. I said (my opinion)That I wouldn't have done that, which I meant leave them alone, not only are they to young to be alone but they were eating and could have choked.
Then on another post I had said that I had a friend who had gotten sick in his sleep and choked,
My point is anything can happen. I think people should just take advantage of all the clubs and activities for the kids. They love it and the parents get some alone time., I have not gotten to do these things because I have a young daughter and she goes to sleep very early. But they are there for you to enjoy!

Skywalker
02-05-2005, 10:13 AM
Cruella, I know what you are saying and just for the record, I agree 100%.

suesings
02-07-2005, 12:47 AM
I would assume Disney has a policy on this. I know in Vegas there are policies as to leaving a child in a hotel room alone. I don't know if it is a State, Local or Hotel law? Also, here in California when children are left alone and there is a fire or a child hurt, the parents are ABSOLUTELY charged with neglect and various other crimes (unfortunately this has happened too many times in the last couple years)

To the person who had their parents in an adjoining room while they went out - well obviously your kids were not left alone but with their grandparents.

Our neighbor directly across the street is in Prison and has been for Child Molestation. I thought he was a great guy for years. Just because someone is nice does not make them a great guy.

Can you imagine the poor young kids (this obviously doesn't apply to kids over 12!!) in their cabins alone and there is a firedrill or something. Even if their parents make it back to them. Hopefully they haven't been drinking heavily. Wouldn't be able to help their kids much anyhow.

You know the old saying....you can't pick your parents.

married2grumpy
02-07-2005, 09:10 AM
I am what some may consider an "over protective" parent. I do not let my children play in the front yard unsupervised, I take them to the bus stop, I don't let them go into the restroom or leave the restroom without me. My children are 7,6 and 4. Yes I may be over cautious but it is my job as a parent to protect my children while still allowing them the freedom to grow and mature. It is hard to find that balance.

While a Disney cruise is "magical" there are still real world dangers for unattended children on board. You do not know the backgrounds of the passengers on your sailing. You don't know if any of them are child predators. Didn't someone just post a link to ebay where they are selling Disney cruise line uniforms! Hello, if you are a child molester how easy are we making it for them to harm our children. Like someone mentioned, some of us have our childrens pictures, names and ages listed for all to see on this site. People can view when we are sailing and even what cabin we have been assigned. I'm amazed to see a teens cruising when thread too.

I know from this board the names and faces of some of the children who we will be sailing with us even though these children do not know me. I know their parents names, where they live, what hotel they may stay at prior to the cruise, what flight they took and other personal info about these families. I could easily approach a fellow Dis'ers unattended child and speak with them as if I personally know them and their family. If I could do that so could any predator who wanted to. I'm not trying to scare anyone but it is a scary world.

I have taken many worshops on the dangers of the internet and children, keeping children safe and teaching them to know what is right or wrong. This classes have taught me that there are real dangers out there for children. I sometimes wish I didn't know all this because as they say, ignorance is bliss. The more I know, the less I want to know.

Please, use your best judgement and as I said previously, it is your choice. If you do leave them alone, be sure they know you will be gone and what to do if they need you.

zeke11
02-07-2005, 10:04 AM
No, I wouldn't do it. On our first cruise our kids were 3, 6 and 7. My dh and I had to go to the midnight buffet separately.

Now that they are 18, 17, and 13 (and a 9yo) cruising is a lot more fun for all of us, I think!

Kris

Tigger&Belle
02-07-2005, 12:24 PM
Though the law varies from state to state, the minimum age requirement for unattended children is generally 12 or 13 years of age. The National SAFE KIDS Campaign, a national organization dedicated to child safety, recommends that kids not be left alone before the age of 12.



I know that this doesn't apply on a cruise ship, anyway, but the only states with laws governing children babysitting and staying by themselves are Maryland and Illinois. http://www.nccic.org/poptopics/homealone.html

If and when we cruise my children would be 7, 13, 16, and 19. Obviously my older children would be old enough to babysit my 7yo, but since we'd have two rooms, maybe not connecting, I'd need to work through how to handle nighttime situations when my DH and I might want to be out of the room after the 7yo is asleep. I'd probably have him bunk with my older kids and we could pick him up when we return to the room. That's assuming he's not at the kids club, of course.

T&B

suesings
02-07-2005, 03:26 PM
Last week in my city, there was a Police Officer that was arrested for molesting his 11 month old. YES, I said 11 month old!! Unbelievable, I know. It turns out that the mother had suspicions and set up a video camera. I kept thinking they made a mistake and meant 11 year old, but NOPE it is sickeningly an 11 month old baby. I also saw Ricky Martin on Oprah a couple weeks ago and he is working now protecting children around the world. He said there is a man in prison now for paying $10,000 to have sex with a 5 month old. If that isn't sick, I don't know what is. Sorry but there are just too many freaks in the world for me to ever leave my kids unattended.

:flower:

dwkwootton
02-07-2005, 04:36 PM
I've read through this thing twice now and I'm still having a time believing what I'm reading! Leaving a 6 and 8 yr old alone anywhere? Anywhere? Whether there's laws in place or not? And the best ~ how mature are the 6 and 8 yr old? Could someone please tell me that this is a joke and I missed the punchline because I was away for the weekend!

ChrisnSteph
02-07-2005, 05:27 PM
Where is this coming from? I never said my children sleep with me! You need to re-read what I said!!


I think Crisi was just being a bit sarcastic.....

ChrisnSteph
02-07-2005, 08:05 PM
Ok, don't flame me, since everyone is saying "IMHO"......this is mine. Sorry if it's a little long....

I think each family is unique and different, including children. I think how we raise our children and the decisions we make regarding them have a lot to do with how us parents were raised as children. For example, when I was 10 years old, I was walking home from school a few blocks away by myself, to an empty home, and I did my chores, homework and hung out with my two younger siblings until about 6 pm when my parents came home. Latchkey kids, if you will. I remember being left alone on many occasions when I was even younger. At that age I also knew how to cook simple meals, use a public bus if I had to, use a phone, and other things that in today's world many kids don't have a clue about. My parents both had to work to put a roof over our heads, and they did their best. I would never call them bad parents, they loved us, were wonderful parents and we all turned out just fine. It was a situation that we made the best of and it worked for our family. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that "today's world" is really not much different than it was back then, and it really is true. I think - and again this is only MY personal opinion - that these days our children are so sheltered and coddled by overly paranoid parents that it's any wonder they even know how to wipe their own butts. Now I'm only being sarcastic, but I sort of look at life this way. I'm raising little adults. I want my children to have some street smarts. I want them to be aware of their surroundings and know what to do in situations where I might not be there to handle it or protect them. I want them to be able to learn to protect themselves in case I'm not there to do it. This doesn't mean that I think it's okay to let 5 year old children alone in a room by themselves. But I do want to raise my children to be able to hold their own in the event that I cannot be there. I have 4 children: 9 y/o dd, and three sons, 4 months, 2, and 3. My daughter is a very mature minded child. She helps me at home with her siblings, including her special needs brother. She knows how to change diapers, make bottles, and even change a feeding tube. She knows how to use the phone, and respects all the rules regarding strangers. On our second cruise, she was 7. We gave her a two-way radio, and with detailed instructions - don't open the door for anyone, if she needed anything or felt scared to call us asap, don't leave the room, ect... - we left her in the room for an hour while we saw a show. She watched movies and did homework, and we kept in touch every 15 minutes to make sure she was ok. She did great, and everything was fine. Now I wouldn't leave her at home alone, but mind you, we are on a cruise ship, we were just a couple of minutes away, if the ship was "going down" we could have gotten to our room in plenty of time. She was safe, and fine. The likelyhood of someone getting into our room was next to nil - half the time our own stateroom keys didn't work, and it's not like anyone can barge their way through. We weren't worried at all. My husband is a firefighter/paramedic and he isn't worried about our kids choking in their sleep or on their food when we aren't looking. Maybe our 2 year old, but not the older ones. We are good parents, and our children are our world. Our daughter is 9 now, and we just got back from our third cruise. She was able to check herself in and out of the club, and she and her two same aged friends wandered all over the ship by themselves. They never got into trouble, and most of the time you could find them in the club or the arcade. Late at night, on two occasions, I left her in the room to do her homework and watch over her two sleeping brothers until we returned an hour later. Their grandparents were in the adjoining room, so they did fine. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is a personal decision and what might work for one family may not work for another. That's ok. But it irritates me to see people posting on this topic basically assuming that one would be a bad parent for leaving their child alone. Being left alone in a room on the ship and being left alone at home are two different things and should be viewed as such. And for those dragging legalities and such into it, I think that's going way beyond what the original poster intended. I think some people are being too judgmental and getting a little too hyped up over this. Yes, we all know or know someone who.....you name the scenario here. Bottom line - do what you are comfortable doing. Anyhow, that's just my two cents, and as everyone else has said, IMHO.

ChrisnSteph
02-07-2005, 08:20 PM
And I almost forgot to add.....

It amazes me how many of the posters lament on the dangers of leaving your children alone and the risk of pedophiles and all that, yet they have their childrens pictures and names on their signatures, and some even put what stateroom they're staying in. All I can say is: Pot. Kettle. Black.

PizzieDuster
02-07-2005, 09:24 PM
Well, last year I posted a trip report on our 7 day Western.

We had a huge problem with teenagers. :sad2:

What would happen if someone knocked on door. :confused3 Then banged on it. :guilty: Again and again. :earseek: Ding dong ditch..... :charac4: :charac4:

It would scare the crap out of the kids. Would they open the door? :confused3

Stuff happens. I wouldn't want to be the first one on a DCL cruise that it happened to.

:rolleyes1 I'm just saying. Use the kids club. You'd be surprised how cool some kids think it is to lay on a mat to watch a movie with all new friends.

Mickeyhugger
02-07-2005, 10:15 PM
You said it very well ChrisnSteph. :sunny:

suesings
02-07-2005, 10:27 PM
This is a very interesting read...

I always wondered who these people are that we read about who leave their kids alone either in hotel rooms, houses, cars, etc. It is sad to see these parents are everywhere. Makes me want to go hug me kids. I'm sure the people who's houses caught on fire or who have had the police called on them when it is discovered they've left their kids alone in a hotel in Vegas assumed nothing would happen too. What a strange concept to me to ever put my kids potentially at risk. I agree the odds are very low, but the fact that one would take that bet is weird to me.

Just my opinion.

jhorstma
02-07-2005, 11:58 PM
I'm one of those personal decision type people - give your kids responsibility commensurate with their maturity (though 6 and 8 seems a bit young to be unsupervised, if only because I can imagine my 2 at that age fighting and fooling around). For the record my DS11 and DD9 will have full sign-out priviledges when we sail next month, with agreed on rules and 2-way radios.

Here's my own angle on this pedophile thing - out of maybe 500 Disney cruises since the beginning of DCL, each with roughly 3000 passengers and crew (150,000 people total, albeit double-counting crew) - there's never been a reported case or even a rumored on-board case of child molestation, nor any muggings, assaults, armed robberies, or anything else. I'm sure that there have been plenty of simple thefts and probably hanky panky by unsupervised teens, but not a whiff of any parent's darkest fears (or else they'd be splashed across these boards and the news). Not to say it couldn't happen, but statistically that's pretty amazing. It's a safe ship and safe environment - probably safer than my kids playing outdoors at home.

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 12:33 AM
I agree jhorstma.

DH and I are very protective of our 10 year-old DD. (I won't even permit her to walk to a friend's house in our new neighborhood, and it's one of the 'safest' in the metroplex.) However, a couple of times on our most recent cruise (when she was 9), she was settled in with her books and gameboy and was fine when DH and I took a short walk on the deck. We had walkie-talkies and she knew not to open the door, even for us. Point I'm trying to make..we felt safer on DCL than our own neighborhood.

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 01:03 AM
This is a very interesting read...

I always wondered who these people are that we read about who leave their kids alone either in hotel rooms, houses, cars, etc. It is sad to see these parents are everywhere. Makes me want to go hug me kids. I'm sure the people who's houses caught on fire or who have had the police called on them when it is discovered they've left their kids alone in a hotel in Vegas assumed nothing would happen too. What a strange concept to me to ever put my kids potentially at risk. I agree the odds are very low, but the fact that one would take that bet is weird to me.

Just my opinion.


You are entititled to your opinion. However, I think you're missing the whole "use common sense" point. You are assuming that I am "one of those people..."? That's a pretty bold statement. Just because I think differently than you doesn't mean that I am the type of person to leave my kids alone in hot, parked cars, alone in hotel rooms in Vegas - an entirely different world than DCL in EVERY way and a really BAD comparison - and I don't leave my child home alone. I think Mickeyhugger said it best. DCL is in many ways safer than our own neighborhoods. You can stand upon your pedestal and think what you will, but since we all seem to agree that the odds are very, very low that anything remotely close to being horrible would happen to our kids while being left alone in a stateroom, I'll take comfort in that and not have a hysterical mental breakdown worrying about leaving my 9 year old for an hour to relax and do her homework, in a safe stateroom locked away from the rest of the population on the ship. Some parents seem to think that the more you shelter your children from the world, the better you are as a parent. All that is accomplishing is teaching children to be anxious and fearful of every little thing. It's not how I was raised, and it's not how I'll raise my children. (Oh, and just for the record, my husbands a firefighter/medic, and you better believe my kids know what to do in the event there was ever fire in our home, and my 9 year old knows how to perform CPR and the Heimlich. Every child should be taught that, you know, just in case.)

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 03:51 AM
We don't all seem to agree that the odds are very, very low that anything close to horrible could happen on the ship.

A 6 yr old is not a little adult. An 18 yr old is a little adult.

To suggest that a parent who is doing their job by properly attending to their small children is hysterical or overprotective indicates how weak the arguement is for leaving your 6 yr old alone ANYWHERE.

crisi
02-08-2005, 06:26 AM
I actually wouldn't be worried about anything horrible.....personally I think that risk is way low.

But my six year old if he woke up while Mom and Dad weren't there in a strange place (and sometimes he does wake up) would be disoriented and frightened. And for me, that alone wouldn't be worth it. That is a much higher risk scenario.

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 06:51 AM
A six year old waking up from a nightmare in a strange place without his/her parents is horrible. Literally. Webster defines the word: dreadful, frightful, awful.

If you want to go out drinking, hire a babysitter instead of trying to justify negligence citing odds on pedophiles, bomb threats, fire drills, or a 55 foot wave hitting a cruise ship in Hawaii.

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 07:38 AM
From reading the most recent posts, I get the iimpression that the statistics about pedophiles and crimes are for parents who think their responsible 'older' children are capable of staying alone in a stateroom.

Obviously, a six-year old is too young.

iluvallthingsdisney
02-08-2005, 08:43 AM
:listen: I have read everyone's posts on this thread. I find getting a glimpse into some of the opinions expressed here very interesting. My dd's are 5 and 7. I would never leave them unattended anywhere at these ages. Use your best judgement. Enjoy your cruise.

devotedchristian
02-08-2005, 09:58 AM
I keep hearing "DCL is safer than the real world" :sad2:

Do NOT get caught up in the "Disney Magic" .

Fact: Disney Cruise Lines IS the "real world" and I think the following scenairo needs repeating:

How would you know if a weirdo was keeping an eye on your room/kids? Suppose the creep saw you leave, then decided to knock on the cabin door, saying, "Room Service from Mickey!!" or used some other ploy to get the kids to open the door.

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 09:58 AM
A six year old waking up from a nightmare in a strange place without his/her parents is horrible. Literally. Webster defines the word: dreadful, frightful, awful.

If you want to go out drinking, hire a babysitter instead of trying to justify negligence citing odds on pedophiles, bomb threats, fire drills, or a 55 foot wave hitting a cruise ship in Hawaii.


Where the the heck did THAT come from? I agree that six is too young to be left alone. No argument there. It's obvious we all aren't going to see eye to eye on this matter. And that's ok. We're all entitled to our opinions. But the slamming of people's parenting skills and personal attacks need to stop. I'll be first.....

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 10:14 AM
Devoted Christian, I don't recall seeing anywhere on these boards that 'DCL is safer than the real world.'

If any parent has any doubt about there child opening a door to 'room service', by all means, DONT LEAVE THEM ALONE.

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 10:33 AM
ChrisnSteph, the original post questions leaving a 6 and 8 yr old unattended. That's where the heck that came from.

There's been pages and pages about this couple going out for a stroll, that couple going to the club (oh, but only for an hour), how low the odds are of something horrible happening, how mature is the 6 yr old .... that's where the heck that came from.

Leaving a 6 yr old child with only an 8 yr old child anywhere is appalling. This issue should not be taken so lightly and I'm not sure I'd dignify anyone who would do this as having enough parenting skills to criticize.

devotedchristian
02-08-2005, 10:45 AM
Devoted Christian, I don't recall seeing anywhere on these boards that 'DCL is safer than the real world.'.


[QUOTE=jrabbit][i]All that being said, I think that the DCL's cruise ship enviornment is a little different than the "real world."QUOTE]


As I said, Disney Cruise Lines IS the real world. And this certainly isn't the only statement on this thread that has made a reference DCL is *immune* to the dangers of society. It certainly is not.

Some say it depends on the kid's level of maturity...well there is an old saying that criminials get smarter and smarter each day.

I think people get so caught up in the Disney Magic, they tend to lose a sense of reality.

Just my opinion.

married2grumpy
02-08-2005, 10:54 AM
[i]
All that being said, I think that the DCL's cruise ship enviornment is a little different than the "real world." Yep, with 3000+ people onboard there is going to be crime and has the potiential of some very horrific crimes (rape, molestation, kidnapping). It's quite likely that the demographic makeup of the guests are such that onboard we are actually safer from those type of crimes than off of the ship. A large percentage of pedophilia occurs inside of family groups (offender and victim are related to each other).


Actually, I think that statement above is way off. Yes you will have many families traveling together and you would think your children are at a lesser risk. That is why it is even more dangerous. These types of environments make parents more lax because they feel their children are safe because it is a "family" environment. Pedophiles want to be around children. Theme parks, playgrounds, near schools and yes, family cruise ships are loaded with children. Doesn't that make it more appealing to a pedophile?

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 12:09 PM
ChrisnSteph, the original post questions leaving a 6 and 8 yr old unattended. That's where the heck that came from.

There's been pages and pages about this couple going out for a stroll, that couple going to the club (oh, but only for an hour), how low the odds are of something horrible happening, how mature is the 6 yr old .... that's where the heck that came from.

Leaving a 6 yr old child with only an 8 yr old child anywhere is appalling. This issue should not be taken so lightly and I'm not sure I'd dignify anyone who would do this as having enough parenting skills to criticize.


When I said where the heck did that come from, I was referring to where you said "if you want to go out drinking.......". I even highlighted that portion in red to single it out. And I'm going to stand by MY original post. I wasn't being critical. I was stating my opinion and why I think that way. The ones being overly critical and judgmental are the people like yourself with your harsh comments, who think the world is black and white and that every family and the children within that family into the same mold. I'm a good mom. My children are good kids, and my daughter has a good head on their shoulders. She is aware of the dangers of the world because her father and I teach her. I think that the judgment I use is appropriate for MY children. It doesn't make me a bad parent, as you suggest. And I don't need you to dignify me. I would never suggest that you are a bad parent because you would choose to never leave your child alone. That's ridiculous! As I said in my original post, I was raised differently. My take on things are different. Doesn't make me a bad, neglectful or abusive parent. To believe that would assume that my own parents were that way, or any other person who was raised as I was had horrible parents. This whole subject reminds me of an incident this past fall, a woman parked her car in front of a gas station. Inside were her two children. The weather was typical fall weather, a little chilly. She left her children in the car , and went inside, bought a few snacks and some gas. Mind you, the car is right in front of the window where she could see it, less than 30 feet away, and locked. She had the keys. She stood in front of the window and kept an eye on it while she was inside. The line was a bit long so it took about 10 minutes to pay for her gas. In those ten minutes, someone flagged down a police car in the parking lot, and told the officer that a woman had left her kids alone in a parked car. Of course the officer comes in to check it out. The woman who flagged the officer down trailed right behind him, quite proud of herself. Turns out, the woman left her children, a 9 y/o girl and a 1 y/o son in the car because the baby was a child who had special needs. She was on her way back from checking him out of the hospital where he'd been for over a week with RSV. He had a compromised immune system and was hooked to medical equipment. She had her older daughter watch over him so that she didn't have to expose him to the elements or unhook him from his equipment that he needed. All she needed was to do was get gas. The children were not harmed, and the officer left without incident. This is an example of how some people in today's society are so paranoid and quick to jump the gun and be accusatory. I felt bad for that woman. It's just an example of how everything in life is not black and white, and how the decisions people make can be individual to that situation. That's all I'm trying to say.

Ariel Wanna-be
02-08-2005, 12:58 PM
Would it be OK to leave the kids (mine are aged 8 and 6) in the cabin on their own?

Short answer? I wouldn't leave my very responsible DS7 alone in the cabin. I'd be worried sick the entire time.

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 12:58 PM
I am curious devoted christian and dwkwootten, have either of you sailed on DCL before?

married2grumpy
02-08-2005, 01:03 PM
ChrisnSteph-

I don't want this to end up as a debate (which is were this whole thread is going) but do you really think there is nothing wrong with leaving those kids alone in the car for 10 minutes? Especially a child with a medical condition?

I guess we were raised different!

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 01:09 PM
I think the point she was trying to make in talking about the police incident is that every situation is different. I agree with the 'black and white' parallel.

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 01:40 PM
Yes, have sailed Disney 7 or 8 times.

Leaving a 6 yr old without his/her parents is unacceptable. Always. And appalling. Justifying it is despicable.

You missed your own punchline in the gas station story. Mom should have stopped for gas and snacks before picking up her sick child. Appalling? No. Not handled well? Right on.

devotedchristian
02-08-2005, 01:51 PM
I am curious devoted christian and dwkwootten, have either of you sailed on DCL before?

No, I have only sailed on Carnival Cruise Lines. What's your point?

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 01:58 PM
ChrisnSteph-

I don't want this to end up as a debate which is were this whole thread is going but do you really think there was something wrong with that woman alerting the police about some possibly abandonded children who were left alone in the car for 10 minutes? Especially a child with a medical condition?

I guess we were raised different!

You are not being realistic. Considering the situation, having been there to witness it firsthand, and the fact that the woman jumped the gun in reporting it before even approaching the the mother and overreacted, I'd have to say yes. My goodness. That child's medically fragile condition is the reason she left him in the car with her older nine year old daughter looking out for him, and the mom watching everything from the window. She did what was the best interest of her son. What should she have done? Run out of gas and sit on the side of the road? Disconnect her child from the equipment helping him to breathe and exposing him to lord knows what when he is already compromised just to run inside to pay for gas? Which poses the greater risk? Which is safer? Apparently the officer didn't see a problem either. I've come to the conculsion that no matter what I say, you'll take it and run with it in a totally different direction, and you aren't being rational, so as far I'm concerened, this debate with you is over.

married2grumpy
02-08-2005, 02:00 PM
"The ones being overly critical and judgmental are the people like yourself with your harsh comments, who think the world is black and white and that every family and the children within that family into the same mold."

I think it is black and white! An 8 year old child is still an 8 year old child, regarless of maturity level, how they are raised or whom they are raised by. No not all families are the same. Some children are forced to grow up too quickly and there are some who are way too sheltered. A child is still a child and should not be left alone.

I am not being overly critical nor am I being judgemental but again, IMO, leaving your children alone should never be an option. Especially when Disney has made it a point to have facilities where your children will be supervised and you alerted if they need you.

devotedchristian
02-08-2005, 02:04 PM
ChrsnSteph, to the best of your knowledge, was there a reason the mom could not have gotten gas before going to the hospital to pick up her baby?

Stimpy
02-08-2005, 02:04 PM
..... All she needed was to do was get gas. The children were not harmed, and the officer left without incident. This is an example of how some people in today's society are so paranoid and quick to jump the gun and be accusatory. I felt bad for that woman. It's just an example of how everything in life is not black and white, and how the decisions people make can be individual to that situation. That's all I'm trying to say.


I can tell you a similar story that happened around here a few years ago (maybe 2?). A woman left her young toddler in the car in front of her other child's school. She was just running up to the door to get her child while the baby sat in the backseat. Believe it or not, a guy jumped in the car and stole it with the toddler crying in the back seat. Fortunately, they eventually got the baby back. Could an 8-9 yr old child have prevented that? I don't know, but I doubt it. I also doubt the mother ever even thought it possible that something like that could happen to her child but it did.

married2grumpy
02-08-2005, 02:07 PM
You are not being realistic. Considering the situation, having been there to witness it firsthand, and the fact that the woman jumped the gun in reporting it before even approaching the the mother and overreacted, I'd have to say yes. My goodness. That child's medically fragile condition is the reason she left him in the car with her older nine year old daughter looking out for him, and the mom watching everything from the window. She did what was the best interest of her son. What should she have done? Run out of gas and sit on the side of the road? Disconnect her child from the equipment helping him to breathe and exposing him to lord knows what when he is already compromised just to run inside to pay for gas? Which poses the greater risk? Which is safer? Apparently the officer didn't see a problem either. I've come to the conculsion that no matter what I say, you'll take it and run with it in a totally different direction, and you aren't being rational, so as far I'm concerened, this debate with you is over.

As a responsible parent, like someone else mentioned, she should have gotten gas before picking up her ill son. And she took the time to purchase snacks! You said yourself the weather was chilly. Did she have the heat on in those 10 minutes? Should a child who is compromised medically be left in the care of a nine year old on the way home from the hospital? I would be so thrilled that my child was okay and on his way home that I don't think I would let him out of my sight for days! Come on now, I think I am being totally rational. By the way, my DH is a police officer and his biggest pet peeve is when parents leave their kids in the car for "just a second" to get something that couldn't wait. All it takes is just a second.

Your right, debate is over!

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 02:13 PM
Realistic? Doing what's best for the child? Leaving a 2nd or 3rd grader in charge of a critically ill baby in a car at a gas station while Mom keeps a watchful eye across the parking lot through a window with potato chips in her arms? Again, Mom should have gassed up the day before or on the way to the hospital. Bad judgement. Maybe she thought the line wouldn't be 10 minutes long .... that's the job of a parent ... to anticipate and plan ahead, not to leave a 6 yr old and attempt to justify it with stats and stories. This is enough already. Get a babysitter if you must have some adult time on your family vacation.

LiserAnn
02-08-2005, 02:18 PM
ChrisnStep clearly stated the woman had her keys and she could see the kids from the window. I've done that before myself with my DS6 (almost 7) and my DS3. I had the keys, it was a cold day, the doors were locked, I could see them clearly and I just popped in and paid for my gas. My DS3 was asleep, I saw no harm, quick in and out, no posibble way for someone to get to them, unless they broke a window and I would be in that person's face in less than 10 seconds. Could the pump explode and kill them...well yes, but that could happen if I were in the car or 10 feet away watching them.

Now, would I personally leave my kids alone in the cabin, or even my DS6? No, nor would I recommend it. But again, as stated before...it's a personal decision, you know how your kids are and what they can handle.

I think the OP was asking if it was allowed, I don't think she was asking what all our opinions are...although I know we all love to share.... :teeth:

CruisingCA2005
02-08-2005, 02:35 PM
There are some people on these boards that you will NEVER see eye to eye with. I suggest using the "Ignore List" feature in your user CP. I actually have several people ignored and I am no longer frustrated by reading irrational posts and harsh, overly critical comments.

MickeyB426
02-08-2005, 02:48 PM
I think at this point there's no need to continue this thread. The OP has gotten all the input he/she would need, don't you think?

Moderator, the padlock please?

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 02:51 PM
I think at this point there's no need to continue this thread. The OP has gotten all the input he/she would need, don't you think?

Moderator, the padlock please?

Good point!

married2grumpy
02-08-2005, 03:54 PM
[QUOTE=MickeyB426]I think at this point there's no need to continue this thread. The OP has gotten all the input he/she would need, don't you think?

Moderator, the padlock please?[/QUOTE

I agree! ::yes::

Cruisefreaks
02-08-2005, 05:21 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if you don't agree with it. While I personally wouldn't leave a 6 year old alone, I might think differently about my 8 and 10 year olds. Chrisnsteph made some really good points. I agree that in today's society parents can sometimes be overly protective, not that there's anything wrong with that, but some parents aren't that way and I think that some people are overreacting about it. There's a big risk that you're child can ride their bike and get hit by a car. In fact there's alot that can happen while your children are outside. A lightning bolt can come out of the sky and strike you down at anytime. Does that mean you don't let your kids out to play? I'm just echoing your sentiment. I also agree that not everything is black and white. Not all of us raise our children exactly alike. The point she was trying to make earlier with the kids left in the car scenario, some of you are blowing it way out of proportion and proves her point that some people think irrationally and don't use common sense. You don't know that woman's situation. Maybe she didn't realize she needed gas because she was so excited to bring her child home? Maybe she didn't realize that he or she would be coming home with medical equipment? Maybe she drove two hours and had to stop? Maybe her kids were hungry from being in the car all day? Maybe her daughter was familar with how to care for her sibling with special needs and she felt comfortable taking her eyes off of them for a few minutes? Are you saying that you've NEVER gotten close to being too low on gas in your car? You don't know what that woman was going through, and you weren't there, so what right do you have to pass judgment and try and turn the scenario around? You have every right to feel the way you do, but that doesn't give you the right to bash people and call them poor parents and describe their behavior as appalling because they don't necessarily agree with you.

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 06:22 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if you don't agree with it. While I personally wouldn't leave a 6 year old alone, I might think differently about my 8 and 10 year olds. Chrisnsteph made some really good points. I agree that in today's society parents can sometimes be overly protective, not that there's anything wrong with that, but some parents aren't that way and I think that some people are overreacting about it. There's a big risk that you're child can ride their bike and get hit by a car. In fact there's alot that can happen while your children are outside. A lightning bolt can come out of the sky and strike you down at anytime. Does that mean you don't let your kids out to play? I'm just echoing your sentiment. I also agree that not everything is black and white. Not all of us raise our children exactly alike. The point she was trying to make earlier with the kids left in the car scenario, some of you are blowing it way out of proportion and proves her point that some people think irrationally and don't use common sense. You don't know that woman's situation. Maybe she didn't realize she needed gas because she was so excited to bring her child home? Maybe she didn't realize that he or she would be coming home with medical equipment? Maybe she drove two hours and had to stop? Maybe her kids were hungry from being in the car all day? Maybe her daughter was familar with how to care for her sibling with special needs and she felt comfortable taking her eyes off of them for a few minutes? Are you saying that you've NEVER gotten close to being too low on gas in your car? You don't know what that woman was going through, and you weren't there, so what right do you have to pass judgment and try and turn the scenario around? You have every right to feel the way you do, but that doesn't give you the right to bash people and call them poor parents and describe their behavior as appalling because they don't necessarily agree with you.


What a wonderful post, I couldn't agree more.

dwkwootton
02-08-2005, 06:25 PM
ChrisnSteph brought up the story and gave it her spin. Then I looked at it and gave it mine. Same difference. And I feel very comfortable passing my personal judgement of appalling to the act of leaving a 6 yr old alone anywhere just as others feel comfortable passing their personal judgement that does not align with mine. Its called America.

You guys take over this one. My opinion has been stated and it is most certainly in the dead horse range. Best of everything to everyone.

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 06:35 PM
The funny thing is, the poster didn't really ask for anyone's personal judgements. They asked a simple question and asked for other's opinions. While we may not get agree with leaving kids of that particular age alone in a cabin, it's really not our place to judge so harshly. And to start questioning parental skills based on a question is silly. This person didn't do it, they were simply questioning as to what others had done as they had not been in this situation before. After all, each situation is different as is each child. I know some 9 year olds that I would leave alone quicker than I would some 12 year olds. And as for some of the scenerios that were given, I doubt a 12 year old would know how to handle things like getting their life jacket and getting to their life station, this is alittle on the extreme side!

suesings
02-08-2005, 06:55 PM
You know, I think you are right. My 4-1/2 year old is very mature for her age. Everyone says so, really! I'm sure she can take care of our 17 month old daughter. "Come on honey, it's date-night!!"

Here is California, if you leave your children unattended (especially on purpose) and something happens, you will be charged with neglect. Unfortunately it has happened many times here. There will always be people who do it and people who don't have an issue with it. Then on the other hand, there will always be people who think all children should be supervised and protected.

Just the way of the world I'm afraid.

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 07:06 PM
You know, I think you are right. My 4-1/2 year old is very mature for her age. Everyone says so, really! I'm sure she can take care of our 17 month old daughter. "Come on honey, it's date-night!!"

Here is California, if you leave your children unattended (especially on purpose) and something happens, you will be charged with neglect. Unfortunately it has happened many times here. There will always be people who do it and people who don't have an issue with it. Then on the other hand, there will always be people who think all children should be supervised and protected.

Just the way of the world I'm afraid.


YOu know, you didn't have to post a snippy answer to my post. I never said anything about leaving a child remotely close to age 4 1/2 taking care of a 17 month old!


And before you start questioning my parenting skills, I never left my children alone anywhere when they were young either at home or on a trip. I did let my 10 1/2 and 12 1/2 year old stay alone in the cabin on our first cruise and have let them do so on each cruise we've been on. They're now 13 and 15 so they have even more freedom.

Yes, I've edited my post. I've decided not to get involed again in another silly argument on this board, I've got better things to do, like watch American Idol!!!!

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 07:34 PM
Y
Yes, I've edited my post. I've decided not to get involed again in another silly argument on this board, I've got better things to do, like watch American Idol!!!!

OK, you had me on your side until you said that American Idol is better than this thread! ;)

T&B

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 07:36 PM
OK, you had me on your side until you said that American Idol is better than this thread! ;)

T&B

Tigger&Belle, say it's not so....come back with me!!!!!!!!!!!!! American Idol is on break so I'm back. :wave:

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 07:45 PM
Tigger&Belle, say it's not so....come back with me!!!!!!!!!!!!! American Idol is on break so I'm back. :wave:

hehehe My son will be home soon so American Idol will soon be on. My DH HATES that show and makes a lot of American Idol comments when the kids are watching. He shuts up, though, if I go and sit down and watch with them. :rotfl:

T&B

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 07:51 PM
My husband so hates it as well, he makes fun of me for watching it. It's the only reality tv show I watch besides the Amazing race. I watch that because I love to travel and love to see all the other countries.

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 08:02 PM
We watch the Apprentice and I love Survivor. Of course I wouldn't leave a young child home alone watching it. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

T&B

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 08:03 PM
I say to the minority - just give up. At this point, you can write a post agreeing with what they say, and they'd still pick it apart and come up with several tragic scenarios that can happen if you do agree. It's a no-win situation. Anyhow, it doesn't matter. I've been reminded - I'm off to watch all my taped episodes of American Idol! :music:

flexsmom
02-08-2005, 08:06 PM
CrisNSteph, couldn't agree more. While I think some evolutions in how we view childcare over the past 20 years have been good (I remember back when I wasn't in a carseat - seems absurd now!), some have been ridiculous. I looked everywhere today for a good old-fashioned mercury thermometer (those digital ones are awful) and couldn't find one because evidently many stores don't sell them because of the dangers of mercury if they break - give me a break! I guess we're not allowed to take any remote dangers unto ourselves if someone has identified them as a hazard. Anyway, next time I go out to pull weeds out front and leave my 6-year old watching TV while my 2-year old naps, I'm sure I'll be hugely offending a big segment of the population that will be convinced that the 6-year old is going to start a fire, eat bad food or choke on it, or fall down the stairs. Call me crazy, but I like that my almost 2-year old takes on the stairs without having gates and is confident. We have in-laws who's kids are 4 and aren't allowed to do steps without adult supervision. They think we're horrible parents because we let our kids fall down (not down the stairs - don't overreact here) or do the monkey bars and learn to get up and try again.

Sorry - this isn't about me, but I think this whole thing has gotten kind of sad. I want to teach my kids to be respectful of the world - the good and the bad - not afraid of the world. (And no, this doesn't mean I'd leave my 2-year old alone in a stateroom.)

ChrisnSteph
02-08-2005, 08:17 PM
CrisNSteph, couldn't agree more. While I think some evolutions in how we view childcare over the past 20 years have been good (I remember back when I wasn't in a carseat - seems absurd now!), some have been ridiculous. I looked everywhere today for a good old-fashioned mercury thermometer (those digital ones are awful) and couldn't find one because evidently many stores don't sell them because of the dangers of mercury if they break - give me a break! I guess we're not allowed to take any remote dangers unto ourselves if someone has identified them as a hazard. Anyway, next time I go out to pull weeds out front and leave my 6-year old watching TV while my 2-year old naps, I'm sure I'll be hugely offending a big segment of the population that will be convinced that the 6-year old is going to start a fire, eat bad food or choke on it, or fall down the stairs. Call me crazy, but I like that my almost 2-year old takes on the stairs without having gates and is confident. We have in-laws who's kids are 4 and aren't allowed to do steps without adult supervision. They think we're horrible parents because we let our kids fall down (not down the stairs - don't overreact here) or do the monkey bars and learn to get up and try again.

Sorry - this isn't about me, but I think this whole thing has gotten kind of sad. I want to teach my kids to be respectful of the world - the good and the bad - not afraid of the world. (And no, this doesn't mean I'd leave my 2-year old alone in a stateroom.)

You said it nicely. I was laughing about the car seat thing. I remember riding in my parents station wagon, goofing around on the seat way in back with my siblings, pressing my face against the glass and making fish faces on the rear window at other cars! I also can relate to the steps thing! We also live in a two story house, and I did have gates for a while, but I encouraged my 2 year old to go up and down (while I watched, of course) so that he'd learn. He tumbled down two steps just once, but after that he was a skilled stair climber! It wasn't long that I didn't have to worry about it anymore. But when friends come over and see that I don't have gates, they act shocked! It's all about setting the foundation so that our kids can be strong, confident and responsible adults. Thanks for your post.

cjsmith
02-08-2005, 08:22 PM
I also have to laugh at the no car seat thing. My parents had a corvette when they first had me. They actually put the tops of a bar stool in the back with a seat belt for me to sit in! I tell them all the time that it's their fault that I like sitting on bar stools even as an adult!!!!!!!!!!! :rotfl2:

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 08:24 PM
They think we're horrible parents because we let our kids fall down (not down the stairs - don't overreact here) or do the monkey bars and learn to get up and try again.



Even when a parent is right there things can happen. One time, when my youngest was a toddler, he took a nice fall down our carpeted basement stairs with 4 adults watching him. There wasn't anything we could do to stop the fall and he was thankfully ok, but things do happen. I can't raise him in a bubble, but will take on risks that I am comfortable with (no, leaving him home alone at 5yo is not one of them, nor having my 11yo watch him, but my 14yo and 17yo do watch him.

My 17yo just got her license and talk about scary times for parents, but what do I do, not let her drive? For the record, we had her wait an extra year to get her license and she logged MANY more driving hours than required by law. Also, she doesn't have her own car and isn't usually allowed to drive to school, so I suppose we are on the cautious/restrictive side with her, but my job is to grow her into a healthy (mind and body) adult, afterall.

It's all about calculated risks. And yes, my 5yo does play in our fenced backyard by himself, with me checking on him often, and out front with my older kids watchin him.

But no, no staying by himself in a stateroom...

T&B

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 08:27 PM
I also have to laugh at the no car seat thing. My parents had a corvette when they first had me. They actually put the tops of a bar stool in the back with a seat belt for me to sit in! I tell them all the time that it's their fault that I like sitting on bar stools even as an adult!!!!!!!!!!! :rotfl2:

That is too funny!

I'm afraid that I'll have baby gates forever even though my baby is 5yo, but it's to keep the dogs from going upstairs (eating the cat food and bugging them) or downstairs bugging my work-at-home husband.

T&B

Mickeyhugger
02-08-2005, 08:29 PM
I forgot American Idol was on tonight! :rotfl:

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 09:47 PM
I forgot American Idol was on tonight! :rotfl:

More entertaining here!

T&B

DancingBear
02-08-2005, 10:00 PM
I can tell you a similar story that happened around here a few years ago (maybe 2?). A woman left her young toddler in the car in front of her other child's school. She was just running up to the door to get her child while the baby sat in the backseat. Believe it or not, a guy jumped in the car and stole it with the toddler crying in the back seat. Fortunately, they eventually got the baby back. Could an 8-9 yr old child have prevented that? I don't know, but I doubt it. I also doubt the mother ever even thought it possible that something like that could happen to her child but it did.I guess that Mom hadn't thought of, say, locking the door.

Tigger&Belle
02-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Hi Rockville!

We're in Montgomery Village.

T&B

Stepherella
02-08-2005, 11:44 PM
I have been following this thread for days. I work in childcare, and have worked with children for the last 20 years. I mentioned this thread to my coworkers and got quite a reaction. Not a good one either!

The original poster asked, Is it okay to leave the kids, aged 6 and 8 in the stateroom. She also stated that she was welcoming suggestions.

I believe that children should take risks that are age appropriate. I do let children fall and try to work ideas out on their own. I belive that children construct their own knowledge of the world with guidance of those around them. If we believe in our children, trust and respect them- they will thrive. That being said, children aged 6 and 8 are not mature enough to be left alone. Child care is available, parents do have and option on the Disney ship. If your children need to go to bed early- well I guess going out is not going to happen.

Many posters said this was a "personal decision between the parent and child" I do not agree. I highly doubt that Disney would agree with this statement. At some point as children get older, say 10 or 12 parents can make this a personal decision. Many have also stated that most states have laws regarding the age a child can be left alone. While I realize in international waters the laws are different- we have these laws in the USA for a very good reason.

Some of the posters also believe that only those who agree that it is ok to leave the children alone can share there opinion. Agree or disagree- everyone is entiltled to their opinion. :rolleyes: