Lottery Losers

[dvc1995]

Gee, I guess you will have to do your add-ons on the resale market and pay a lot less than $75 per point. Why was everyone so excited about paying $75 per point? I just do not get the deal. What is the advantage to doing the add-ons through Disney? Is it less money in closing or what? I recently purchased 150 points at OKW (to supplement my 210 point membership) for $58 per point. The price may have gone up a bit, but even if you pay $65 per point, that is a $1500 difference.

[Pete W.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the add-ons were small contracts (50 or 100 points) that are difficult to find via resale (and if you do, the closing costs are very high on a per-point basis). Also, they were for BWV or VWL, neither of which you will find on the resale market for anywhere near $58 per point.

[BillM]

There could be several reasons to use DVC for Add-ons.
1. Small package availabilty with no closing costs.(100 points are less).
2. Use year availability.
3. Magical beginnings can reduce the point cost.
4. Disney financing.

Resales are good if they fit. But using DVC allows much more flexibility.

[Pete W.]

Oops, I meant BWV and OKW, and for those who want a small add-on to BWV, they won't find one for resale at $58 per point.

[BobBrazeal]

And buying through Disney, they do pay the closing costs so that should be factored in when comparing to actual final resale costs.

[chris1gill]

I have been looking for a BW add on since January... One just came available last week... It had no points for this year, and only like 12 for next year... Basically I would not have use of that contract for TWO YEARS.... Do you know how much it sold for? 70.00 PER POINT + 400.00 closing costs!! They asked for & got FULL price for a contract that had no points for two years! This was for a 50 point add on.... 50 point add ons don't come across too often, that's all I can say... and I can also say that there is no possibility of buying an BW contract for less than 65.00 a point... not 58 .... I offered 68 a few months ago, and got denied!! Plus add 400 for closing :-( I'd gladly pay Disney the 75.00/point & no closing costs!

[dvc1995]

For really small add-ons (less than 100), it does sound like the Disney purchase is the way to go. My closing costs were about $400. I should point out that that the 150 points I bought in June were initially offered for $66 per point. I tried a low ball offer of $58. I had tried a similar tactic on two other memberships for sale. Those offers were rejected or the counter was too high. I have seen several listings for OKW of 100 points in the past few months. Those memberships sell fast because they are an affordable size. That is one reason why I like having two mid-size memberships rather than one large one. They are easier to unload in the event you want to sell or downsize. Flexibiity is an advantage.

[Lora]

I was on a waitlist for A Timeshare Store - not for long, but I wasn't given much hope that anything would be available soon. Also - she said that the resale BWV add-ons were selling for as much as $75/point. Now, you figure out which was a better deal. Disney paid closing costs and I can bank right away. I realize I got in on a rare deal with the lottery - I'm sorry more of the DIS-ers didn't get in on it. It seems that use-year played a big role in this. Maybe as time gets closer to the BCV sale, the BWV points won't be in such high demand. If I hadn't gotten a BWV add-on, I would have been perfectly happy at the BC. I was just too impatient to wait. ;)

[Laurajean1014]

I am very suprised that $58/pp went through. Since late '99 no offer under $59.50 would be acceptable from DISNEY. That's were the lottery points came from. Many people sold for whatever reasons directly through DISNEY so they didn't have to pay a broker fee and real estate costs. Also, very few resales are worth it! Many do not offer banked points (the only way to go) in fact, have borrowed to the hilt. You are paying for someone else's vacation. No thanks.....................

Disney financing is still more competitive than resales (around 9.5% - 1 year and up if adding years to your finance).

Also, on resales higher than 100 points the closing fee is around $445 and up!

Our friends want to sell us their OKW points and could not do better than $59.50pp for of course, DISNEY reasons.

I would say that was a "once in a lifetime" deal.

Have a DVC Day!:D

[Dean]

Laurajean1014, I'm not sure I agree. I know of resales that were completed for as low as $55 pp last summer. Sounds like something a broker would tell you, remember they make more money AND have a better chance of even making a sale if you offer more. The last price I heard for DVC buy backs was only $56.50 around the start of the year. Of course that was around the time of the price increase to $72 and then to $75 but I'd still expect a resale of $58 pp to go through from Disney's standpoint though I'm not sure the market will allow one to go that low at present.

[prplcrzy]

I just bought a resale for $58/pt. It was a 350 point package though.

[dbkelly]

Where on earth did you find a contract for $58 per point? Did you have this year's points and next?

[prplcrzy]

I have my first allotment of points in 2002. I was more concerned with price per point than having points available since I already own. I can borrow these points if I want starting next month and I already have my trip planned and paid for this year. The values are out there, you just have to look and negotiate.:jester:

[palmerjl]

Laurajean1014

Quote: "Very few resales are worth it. Many do not offer banked points..."

While it's true that most resales do not offer banked points, they should be priced to reflect that fact. If not, then you're offer should reflect that fact. The market has a way of making sure that sale prices reflect the true value of the goods or services being exchanged.

When contemplating a DVC membership through resale the buyer must consider much more than the banked/borrowed status. Location, point requirements, closing costs, family needs etc. all come into play. To reject a resale membership simply due to the lack of points available this year or next, given the long-term nature of the contract, would be shortsighted to say the least.

As an example there is currently a 270 point OKW April membership available for resale @ 61/pts with no '01 points and only 19 left for '02. For someone looking to minimize there upfront cash outlay, and who may not be considering a vacation until '03 for whatever reason, this may be a good buy, rather than waiting until '03 when due to other DVC openings prices per point may be even higher.

Could this contract be had for $58/pt? It wouldn't hurt to make the offer and see. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[robinb]

As an example there is currently a 270 point OKW April membership available for resale @ 61/pts with no '01 points and only 19 left for '02. For someone looking to minimize there upfront cash outlay, and who may not be considering a vacation until '03 for whatever reason, this may be a good buy, rather than waiting until '03 when due to other DVC openings prices per point may be even higher.


First of all, welcome to DIS!

While I agree with you that banked/borrowed points is not the only thing you should look at, I don't think your example is really that great of a deal. The 270 at asking price would come out to $16,470. Add to that $500 for closing costs plus $844 for 2002 dues on points you will never see and your real cost of those points skyrockets to $66 per point.

If you bought 270 points from Disney at Hilton Head or Vero Beach you would pay $75 per point and you could sell your first year's worth of points back to Disney for $10 each. You would end up paying less than the same number of points at OKW and the points you would sell back would probably be 2001 points leaving you with all of your 2002 points.

[dvc1995]

Generally, if you purchase a "stripped" contract on resale, one with no points available this year, the fees for the used points come out of the seller's proceeds. That is how Jaki at atimeshare.com explained it to me.

[palmerjl]

RobinB

Point taken. However I'm not sure your response goes very far in refuting my argument. The price skyroketing to $66 a point still beats any most of the other available prices for OKW. My response was to the general statement that "Very few resales are worth it.." Some resales are "worth it" but you won't always know unitl you make an offer. Further, in response to your VB or HH idea: I've read at least a thousand times on this very board "Buy where you want to stay the most!" So, if my desire is to stay at OKW for whatever reason, then maybe my example isn't so bad.

[dvc1995]

I think comparing OKW to HH or VB is like comparing apples and oranges. OKW commands a higher price on resale and has lower maintenance fees. After reading more of the responses on this thread, I realized that comparing OKW resales to BWV's may be a mistake too since BWV seems to command a higher resale price than OKW.
I would be hesitant to buy HH or VB if you really want WDW. HH and VB are harder to resell. Also, does Disney require you to pay maintenance fees on the first year of points you sell back to them?

[dvc1995]

Out of curiosity, I checked a resaler's site (which shall remain unmentioned to not violate any of the rules of the forum) and I found a 250 point OKW membership anniversary date of 9/1 with 250 points banked from 2000 and 250 more coming on 9/1. The asking price was $69 per point. If you rent the banked points on the rental board for a conservative $10 per point at $2500 and add the difference between $69 and $75, you come out at a $4000 savings. If you don't rent and decide to enjoy the points, you still save over $1000 after you pay closing costs This analysis does not even take into account the fact you could probably get the seller to come down a couple of dollars per point. Plus you get OKW.

[Dean]

Each situation must be evaluated on it's own merits. For larger contracts of say 250 or above, resale will be the way to go, at least for everywhere except maybe WLV. Even then you might make out. Just remember to factor in the closing, extra risk, and likely extra maint fees. I just think it rarely is enough price difference to be the only or main factor. I wouldn't buy OKW when I wanted WLV, etc, etc.

[auntsue]

Why was I under the impression that the seller paid the closing costs? I thought that's why the price on the smaller contracts was so high, because the seller had to figure in closing costs and there weren't enough points to spread it around. So, you are saying that the buyer pays the price per point PLUS the closing costs? I think we'll wait for BCV.

[prplcrzy]

The seller does not pay the closing cost, they pay the commission on the points to the real estate agent. Just like you were buying a house. This is why smaller packages have higher resales, there is probably a minimum commission.

Jon, you hit the nail on the head. You need to determine the value of what you want to buy then negotiate a price you would be willing to pay for it.

Larger contracts have an advantage on the resale market -

They move slower than smaller ones do.

You can negotiate a good price if you do not care if there are current points available. You should not have to pay the dues on the current use year if there are no points available to use. If you buy a package from Disney you will pay the prorated use year dues for the current year even if you sell your points back for the current year in exchange for a more favorable price. If points are borrowed you can negotiate that they pay you the dues on the points that are borrowed from the next year. Do your homework, it's your money!

With Disney you do not have to pay closing costs, on the open market you do. With Disney you can get the use year you already have for your add on if you want. On the open market, if that is what you want that gives you a negotiating weakness as well as limits you to the contracts you may want to make an offer on, therefore limiting the flexibility in getting the best deal.

You have to make all of the decisions first decide which direction to go in and then get your calculator out and do some number crunching. Evaluate what is best for you and go after it!

By the way, why do you think Disney will buy back the Hilton Head and Vero points for $10 each and the Wilderness Lodge points for only $5 each??? And you still have to pay the dues!

Good luck to all and use that calculator that is sitting in the back of your junk drawer!!!


:jester:

[Dean]

And that is why there are so few add on contracts available. $1500 is the usual minimum commission, closing min is usually $400. On a 50 point contract, that's $38 pp. Even if the seller gets the full DVC price but including closing, that only leaves them $37 return on their "investment". I bet there are far more people that would like to sell their add ons than their full contract but when they figure out the realitities, it's not worth it unless it's a real distress situation.

The tradtion is that the seller pays the sales commission and the buyer pays closing. The usualy timeshare tradition is that the buyer pays the years maint fee if they get the years usage and not if they don't. Sometimes you have the choice. Disney is an enigma in that, as prplcrzy pointed out extremely well, the yearly fees are tied to the year and not the points. That's why I get upset when I hear brokers say if you get the points, you need to pay the dues. It either means they are ill informed or worse, dishonest. This has been a problem even at some of the prominent DVC resale sites.