WDW STRIKE Date Set For Firday November 19

[ztbz]

Just got word via email from a Shop Steward. I will post what was sent to me, except for a little bit of editing, this is official word from the Union.

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The moment everyone has been waiting for, we just got the word from today's meeting with Disney.

We asked for an increase on wages the company said NO.
We asked for an increase on bonuses the company said NO.
We asked for additional caps on healthcare the company said NO
We asked for the company to increase the pension the company said NO

The only change that was made was that a paid benefit would count towards the 30 hour weekly threshold.

So we are voting again on the same *@#& that we just voted on but, we have to vote again because of the change the company did make. The Disney did say that as of Thursday Night, there will be no more extensions, So this means that as of Thursday when we vote down the same CONTRACT we just voted on, we will be on STRIKE as of midnight Friday, November 19.

So everyone needs to get out and tell everyone in are area and all areas that we are voting again on Thursday November 18 2004 and at midnight we will be making history.

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That’s it, too bad it has to come to this.

Z

[KNWVIKING]

So here's what happens on Dec 5th: I check into VWL. I don't renew my AP's for fear of not getting my moneys worth in the parks so we'll head out to I-Drive, US/IOA and SW. Since we'll already be off property, we'll go ahead and eat out there. So at the end of the week I'll have had a great vacation. The strike did not ruin my trip, but the people out on the picket lines may be a little short on cash during the Christmas holiday. The union officials.... they'll survive just fine. The part timers will get more hours- and more money. The salaried supervisors will go back to their old jobs - and get paid twice as much to do it. And if a guest gets upset because their once in a lifetime trip they had planned a year ago is ruined, who do you think they'll blame ? The guy with the picket sign.

[ztbz]

Disney Union workers do have a Strike Fund setup in the event of a Strike.

[TimandTanya]

I know this probably sounds extremely selfish, but
@#$%^ , !@$#%$%, !@@$#%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My family has been planning a vacation all year, we are due to get there on Nov. 23, and spend Thanksgiving. I have been working really hard to make extra money so that this vacation does not dip into our hard earned, new house money.

AND NOW THIS!!!!!

Why can't we all just get along?

[fantasmic_01]

Question. You say that disney employees can strike as of nov 19 midnight but i read some article i found on the net that they can not strike until the first week of december if they were to decline again. Can you ask your source(shop steward) which one it is.

[SyracuseWolvrine]

The website of HERE Local 362, which is one of the groups represented by the Service Trades Council Union says that negotiations resumed today with the aid of a federal mediator.

It also says (and this is a direct copy/paste) "The move gives union negotiators the power to call a strike, which isn't planned for now."

(emphasis added was mine)

[kpk89]

That's terrible! I take it that there's never been a strike before, or even close to one?

[jgmklmhem]

I am reading mousetales...about DL and they have had a pretty big strike in 1984...and from what I understand Disney won most of what they wanted.

[Cris]

don't worry Disney is a big bully corporation and they will get their way.

[Bob O]

From what i have reasd, alot of employee's arent union members as FLA is a right to work state and that they have doubted the calls for a strike due to the fact FLA isnt a union state with union friendly laws like we have in the midwest.
And i agree with Viking, i will blame the strikers and have already bought 5 day passes for Universal. While we only paln to use 2/3 days worth of them, it will be wuite easy to use all 5 and visit disney for a day or two and save my unsed park hopper days for another visit.
But i dont think they will strike with so much money to be made once thanksgivivng starts.

[KNWVIKING]

***"Disney Union workers do have a Strike Fund setup in the event of a Strike."***

So did my father's. My dad traded an $800.00 paycheck for $50.00, two bags of groceries, a picket sign and a section of sidewalk to stand on in the middle of winter.

Of course, the union bosses got full paychecks each week and never knew how cold it was outside.

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by Cris
don't worry Disney is a big bully corporation and they will get their way. What does this mean, exactly? Is Disney somehow able to skew the labor market on its own and pay less than what the market demands? Are Disney's workers less able than others to seek better-paying jobs from other employers?

[mom2rb]

I hope they work this out. I could never cross a picked line and walk into my father's house again.

[zulaya]

I am a little sick and tired of workers wanting a bigger bonus, a bigger raise to cover their higher health insurance premium.

Do they really think the rest of us are getting annual bonuses, raises and that our healthcare costs are staying the same?

Here's our situation:

My DH hasn't had a raise in 3 years. ZERO. Every year our health care costs have risen so he has basically received a pay cut for the past 3 years due to health care. Last year he did get an annual bonus, for the first time in 3 years.

And it's not because he isn't a good worker...the guy consistently gets one of the top employee reviews in his immediate group.

It's the fact that his field (tech) has stagnated AND that health care costs are completely out of control for EVERYONE!

How do these workers think they should get a better deal than every other worker who is seeing double digit percentage increases in their personal cost for health care coverage.

(taking deep breath now and stepping off soap box)

[dennis99ss]

zulaya, some people believe they are entitled to benefits, no matter the cost. Of course, when you don't pay the health care costs, since the employer does, you really don't care. (General you) Off my soapbox. I get to pay health premiums before I get a paycheck, but, its an entitlement. I would say strike away....Let them hire workers who are happy with the pay and benefits.

[dennis99ss]

From another thread, the Teamsters vote no because it would cut into overtime........go figure, not wanting Disney to hire more people.

[ginaforpeace]

Hello,

I am very concerned. I am due to get to Disney on Nov. 22nd. It's for my daughter's 6th birthday. I hope this event doesn't spoil our trip.

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by zulaya
I am a little sick and tired of workers wanting a bigger bonus, a bigger raise to cover their higher health insurance premium.

Do they really think the rest of us are getting annual bonuses, raises and that our healthcare costs are staying the same?

Here's our situation:

My DH hasn't had a raise in 3 years. ZERO. Every year our health care costs have risen so he has basically received a pay cut for the past 3 years due to health care. Last year he did get an annual bonus, for the first time in 3 years.

And it's not because he isn't a good worker...the guy consistently gets one of the top employee reviews in his immediate group.

It's the fact that his field (tech) has stagnated AND that health care costs are completely out of control for EVERYONE!

How do these workers think they should get a better deal than every other worker who is seeing double digit percentage increases in their personal cost for health care coverage.But if your husband's industry wasn't stagnating--say it had taken a hit after 9/11 and was now recovering, would you not even think to ask for better money and benefits?

The CMs don't have an entitlement to what they are asking for, but both sides have the right to negotiate, and use their respective leverage (including a strike on the union side) to get an agreement they want.

[ztbz]

A New Update from the Teamsters Business agent to the Cast Members.

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Brothers and Sisters,

We are faced with choices in life. In the coming days you will have to make a important decision regarding striking at Disney. Federal Mediator Conrad Bowling was unsuccessful in getting Disney to review and change what they are asking of you. We asked the company to do all they can to avoid a strike. What we got was a definition on the new company proposed 30 hour rule to keep your full time status along with one another minor change. They would not budge on anything else in their offer. They said this is their best last and final offer and the talks broke off. In fact they threatened to not extend the contract past Thursday, take away any retro pay due and not pay the bonus until after the Christmas holiday if we don't take what is offered. These changes require us to bring the offer to you to vote again.

On Thursday we Vote No again and on Thursday night at midnight (or Friday Early Morning) we will have the right to go on strike against Disney for the unfair labor practices they have and continue to commit. I say to all of you, get ready to strike if you don't think the offer is fair. We have been in negotiations with the company for over 8 months and the time is here to take it or do something about it. We have been planning for this day for over two years and the time has come. I can assure you that no Outside Teamster Organization (i.e. UPS & Trucking companies among others) will cross the picket line to make deliveries to Walt Disney World. What we need to make sure of is that your co-worker does not cross. If we stand united we can take Disney out and get a fair deal. If we do go out on strike I will be standing with you at the parks. I am sure the DOT will be present to make sure of the publics safety if scabs take the wheel (of the Bus). We will not stop our other activities in the media either and we will continue to leaflet and hold rallies. We will continue to hit Disney with a full and complete strike plan in order to get a fair contract. If we strike for unfair labor practices they cannot hire
permanent replacement workers. Teamster strike pay is ten times your hourly rate per week. See you all there.


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Z

[fantasmic_01]

I cant believe what im reading you are encouraging your memebers to go on strike. Let me tell you i was on strike for over 9 months and all the wages i lost in those 9 months i will never recover. The people that crossed the picket line was horrrible there was tons of scabs willing to work for even less than what i was making. I worked for a warehouse we picketed not only the warehouse but the stores that we distributed to. We tried to hurt the company but it never made a dent in there sales the union kept saying to us hold the lines were hurting them now (yeah right) i was just disgusted at all the people that crossed our lines to still shop and these people had many alternatives to shop elsewhere. In the end we ended up excepting the final offer it was not much better than there last final offer but some of us had little choice some people were losing there homes getting into finaciall distress and the company was just sittiing back. Now lets look at your possible strike compared to mine the shoppers in my city had alternatives to go elsewhere out where you are people are coming from all around the world do you really think they are going to say " oh Look there on strike we cant go to disney now " WAKE UP that will never happen the tourists who spent tons of money to get there will continue to enter your park and im sure there must be some people out there that will cross the line (scabs) and work. Please explain to me how you plan on hurting such a big company Dont get me wrong i believe in unions for some companys but be honest with yourself read other people who are talking in other forums all these people are telling you they are going to cross your picket line. Disney for most is not something you just decide to do when you wake up in the morning its something that has been planned for months deposits have been put down on tickets acommdations airfares. Im not saying that i do agree with what disney is doing and offering the employees but from what i have read and heard from so many people on other forums most people are going to cross your line. All i can offer you is what i experienced and to say good luck if you do go out on strike because you will need it.

[wilki32]

Maybe I'm the wrong person to be having an opinion on this, I don't know the background, except what I have read here and I'm from the UK but
The 70's and the early 80's were very bad here for strikes but what did it get those men and women, colds, houses repossessed and deserted towns and villages but they 'fought' for their rights! Whilst the union bosses were mostly chauffeur driven to the next pickett line! I think only a few will win from this and it certainly won't be the workers.
Maybe I am a bit biassed in this as my father was a manager of a factory when the unions were at full strength in this country, I watched as a young boy my father go from the 'fun' Dad to a withdrawn character who was never at home whilst the union 'representatives' walked around with smug grins and making remarks about my father (which I did witness).
I know not all union bosses are like this but the way the letter from the business agent has been written I think this is what we have here.

If we do go out on strike I will be standing with you at the parks
On full pay?

I can assure you that no Outside Teamster Organization (i.e. UPS & Trucking companies among others) will cross the picket line to make deliveries to Walt Disney World
How can he be so sure, are these people going to be potentially sacked or disciplined for the sake of somebody elses cause? Unlikely.

Scab, why are the scabs, I think I've read that over 2,000 people have voted against action, are they all scabs? No just people that want to work, hell, they may even enjoy it.

Anyway I've probably pushed my opinion too much but one thing I am sure of is that Disney will 'win' and another is that I will be arriving on the 27th Nov and I WILL be having a good time.

Anthony

[DancingBear]

Interesting that the union messages don't give any examples of "unfair labor practices", only about the negotiating points they aren't getting from Disney, and yet they plan to claim their strike is over "unfair labor practices" so that Disney can't permanently replace the strikers.

fantasmic_01's message is revealing---if others will cross the picket lines and do your job for less money, then (in a right-to-work state like Florida, at least) you really have no bargaining power.

[KNWVIKING]

***"Teamster strike pay is ten times your hourly rate per week."***

Wow.......that'll make for a great holiday.

After all is said and done, the only real losers will be those holding the picket signs.

[angel*lady]

Originally posted by dennis99ss
zulaya, some people believe they are entitled to benefits, no matter the cost. Of course, when you don't pay the health care costs, since the employer does, you really don't care. (General you) Off my soapbox. I get to pay health premiums before I get a paycheck, but, its an entitlement. I would say strike away....Let them hire workers who are happy with the pay and benefits.


I agree! It seems like so many union members think that it is all "rosey" in the open market. My employer doesn't even offer health benefits at all - whether or not I pay for it. My husband is self employed and we pay a small fortune for health insurance! When he still worked for a company, he didn't get a raise for over 3 years and employee heath insurance costs got higher and the company paid less and less. (This was a large national company.)

Personally I question the value of unions today. A good friend of mine was a very loyal union member (postal worker) and touted the party line that the union was there to watch out for her best interests. Well, when she really needed the intervention of the union they just shrugged their shoulders and said "not my problem". Makes you wonder what all those dues were paying for. Personally, I'd rather save my money and fend for myself.

Now I am going to get off my soap box! All that said, I hope that all will be peaceful in "the Kingdom" very soon!

[Mark P.]

Might be wishful thinking here, but because last Thursday's vote to turn down Disney's offer was so close, my gut feeling is that most CM's can't afford or don't wish to strike, and will ultimately vote yes this Thursday (11/18).
I belong to a pretty big union here in NJ, and to be honest, most of the members don't trust what the union leaders have to say whatsoever.
Most, inluding myself, think they have their own agendas, and once they get into a union leadership position, they've got nothing to lose by stirring the pot, at the members' expense.

[Rneighh]

Since Unions were first started because employees were being treated as indentured servants -- had to shop at the company store, work 7 days a week for long hours ect................

Well those days are gone. Unions should be a thing of past. I think Disney should hold out and those jobs can and will be replaced.

Go ahead and flame me!!

Renee

[m&m's mom]

Originally posted by Rneighh
Since Unions were first started because employees were being treated as indentured servants -- had to shop at the company store, work 7 days a week for long hours ect................

Well those days are gone. Unions should be a thing of past. I think Disney should hold out and those jobs can and will be replaced.

Go ahead and flame me!!

Renee

No flaming here. I totally agree!
I was not all that concerned until I read the part about no other companies crossing picket lines. This might be interesting come a week from nw.
Oh well- We WILL be there anyway. No one is going to intimidate me into not coming.

[wtpclc]

I wouldn't count on support from the other teamsters. Disney is too big and unions aren't what they used to be. Especially in a right to work state.

Does anyone know what the mediator actually decided?

[tfc3rid]

I was down in Atlantic City during the 25 day (or so) hotel workers strike and absolutely had no problems passing by the picket line often to go in and gamble or eat at my favorite casino.

However, it did cause major inconveniences to those people who could care less about a strike.

What always burns me about these strikes is that the employees are the ones who suffer... The union fat cats could care less. The truth is they don't really care about the best interests of employees, they care about extoring companies to line their own wallets...

I hope this doesnt get to this pointbut of course you have to expec the worse...

[TimandTanya]

I couldn't agree more. Unions were made to stop long exhausting days, sweat shops, unsafe work conditions. The government has fixed that with OSHA, EEOC, etc.

Unions WERE a vital part of our history, but enough is enough. Go out and EARN your raise IE: more education, work harder, etc.

I have a family member, who has a ninth grade education, but because he knows how to weld, and pays union dues, makes $20+ an hour. That is so ridiculous!!!!

I hear DIS board members complaining about renovations in the parks. How in the world are they supposed to renovate, when they have to pay a housekeeper $15.00/hr, plus all benefits, retirement, etc.?

If the CM's are grouchy, or disgruntled, QUIT!! Walmart is always hiring, or maybe the local supermarket needs midnight stockers.

I am going to DW soon, and if one CM tries to engage in conversation with me about this mess, I pity the day he/she was born. :hyper: :crazy: :earseek:

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by TimandTanya
I have a family member, who has a ninth grade education, but because he knows how to weld, and pays union dues, makes $20+ an hour. That is so ridiculous!!!!I don't see this as any more ridiculous than when others complain about low pay rates. Your family member is getting what the market says the value of his labor is worth, 9th grade education or not---as you say, he has a saleable skill.

[Gathrn]

I agree that they are a thing of the past. I just can not understand how someone who has no right to the assets of a buisness can try to strong arm a buisness into changing the habbits of a buisness. By definition of a free economy, wouldnt a buisness pay a standard wage or naturally see their employies migrate elsewhere to standard wage paying jobs?
By my thinking if they wanted a bigger peice of any profits to be had, wouldn't you buy stock?

[luvalldisney]

I am a FL public employee who belongs to the union (afl/cio), because we are public employees the law says we do not have the right to stike. Due to poor contract practices I have walked many picket lines, watching truckers delivering ups, post office, office max, etc. right through our picket lines. Bus drivers beeped their horns and others cheered us on, but did not stop their regular deliveries. Our picket lines were done on our time not when we were 'on the clock' . After 2 years of failed negotiations, eventually contract talks resumed and a compromise was made with both sides. I will be up to dw next week and plan on walking right past any picket line even though I am a member of the afl/cio. I will not let my union membership stop me from enjoying my holiday or dictate where I can or can not go. I am sure many others on holiday feel the same way. Unions have their place but striking is not going to do anything but line the pockets of the union bosses. How can you be so sure that teamsters (members of the afl/cio) will honor your picket lines? I doubt I am in the minority. While it is perfectly fine to be at odds over a contract, striking does not do anything to the mother company, but does hurt the workers. Perhaps I am not putting this message in the right forum, but IMHO a strike is wrong.

[KNWVIKING]

IMO, when the union bosses call for a strike it's nothing more then a sign of their poor negotiating skills.

Ever hear of a union telling it's members "hey, we asked for a quater an hour, the company offered 0.15, so we'll drop your dues by $4.00 a week to make up the difference" ?????

Didn't think so.

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by Gathrn
I agree that they are a thing of the past. I just can not understand how someone who has no right to the assets of a buisness can try to strong arm a buisness into changing the habbits of a buisness. By definition of a free economy, wouldnt a buisness pay a standard wage or naturally see their employies migrate elsewhere to standard wage paying jobs?
By my thinking if they wanted a bigger peice of any profits to be had, wouldn't you buy stock? Are only top executives allowed to negotiate for higher compensation and better benefits? Do executives have a "right to the assets of a business" any more than line workers do? Would you condemn Matt Ouimett if, when it comes time to negotiate his compensation, he asks for a raise or additional perks?

This is just a negotiation, an example of the free economy at work (particularly in a right-to-work state). The only effective tool labor has in negotiations is to withhold their services. They have every right to use that tool, and their employers have every right to use the legal tools available to them. Ultimately, the CMs will be paid their worth in the market.

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
IMO, when the union bosses call for a strike it's nothing more then a sign of their poor negotiating skills.Negotiating "skills" are not nearly as important as bargaining power. What bargaining power do the union leaders have in negotiations if the threat of a strike is not behind it?

[Gathrn]

Are only top executives allowed to negotiate for higher compensation and better benefits?
top execs argue that their salery is not what the market warrents by negotiating for better pay and benefits. They do this using the threat of leaving the company to work at another company that would pay them what they were asking... this is done fairly regularly, however I do not know of an Executive who picketed their company because his compensation was unfair.

Do executives have a "right to the assets of a business" any more than line workers do?
This is a good question. I would argue that they do. I would not expect a gardener who was told when and where to garden to claim ownership of a garden just because he was paid to work on it.
The Executives in this case do have acting ownership of the buisness assets and if they are not performing as they are expected to they will be delt with. They are givin "rights to the assests of a buissness" by the stockholders who trust that the assests will be taken care of in a proper manner.

Would you condemn Matt Ouimett if, when it comes time to negotiate his compensation, he asks for a raise or additional perks?
I would not condem him if he reviews the current market and wants to adjust his salery to match. (surprisingly this seems to only work one way, up...) In the event that Disney finds his wants unreasonable, I would expect him to quit and work for another company that would be able to meet his expectations. I do not expect to find him pickiting outside Disneyland saying the salery he agreed to was unfair.

What this comes down to is the simple premise of the fact that if a company is not paying the market value for an employee, the employee has every right to point this out, and ultimatly leave. That will hurt the company if it is not paying market wages as the company wil not be able to hire competent employees and has the added costs associated with the hireing/training process.

[KNWVIKING]

***"What bargaining power do the union leaders have in negotiations if the threat of a strike is not behind it?"***

Work slowdowns. Blue Flu. Refusal of overtime. Going to the media.

[meiandrew]

Just found this article:

http://www.wftv.com/employment/3927269/detail.html

[Cris]

I am pretty sure it will go through this time, they stalled this vote for 8 months so they could use the scare tactics of it being so close to Christmas. The other 4 unions are encouraging to vote Yes as well. And two other are wanting to strike.

[Luv2Roam]

I think if the union does not do something they might as well pack up and leave and they know it.
I had also heard that Chrismas pay had a bearing on the tactics. But at this point people are figuring they are not going to be any better off by accepting it.
Also heard strikers are being brought in from other states for the picket lines.
Of course it is all hearsay and depends on who you hear a tidbit from.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I agree with zulaya.

My husband hasn't had a raise in years, despite excellent ratings in every area of his reviews. Now his company has been sold and he is very worried that he may be cut to part time after January 1. We are going to WDW on January 12. Our insurance costs have gone up and up while the coverage has gone down. Our DS was sick last year and there wasn't a single pediatric neurologist on our plan.

While I feel that Disney employees should be compensated fairly, I have a feeling my definition of "fairly" is very different from theirs!

For everyone traveling in November and December I hope the best for you!

I haven't bought our Park Hoppers yet, and I can cancel our hotel up until January 7. All I can't cancel are the plane tickets, and chances are I can find something else to do in Orlando if I have to!

[Samirella]

Originally posted by zulaya
I am a little sick and tired of workers wanting a bigger bonus, a bigger raise to cover their higher health insurance premium.

Do they really think the rest of us are getting annual bonuses, raises and that our healthcare costs are staying the same?

Here's our situation:

My DH hasn't had a raise in 3 years. ZERO. Every year our health care costs have risen so he has basically received a pay cut for the past 3 years due to health care. Last year he did get an annual bonus, for the first time in 3 years.

And it's not because he isn't a good worker...the guy consistently gets one of the top employee reviews in his immediate group.

It's the fact that his field (tech) has stagnated AND that health care costs are completely out of control for EVERYONE!

How do these workers think they should get a better deal than every other worker who is seeing double digit percentage increases in their personal cost for health care coverage.

(taking deep breath now and stepping off soap box)

The only raise I really care about is the cost of living raise everyone gets. I've been with the company for ten years...CMs at Disney top out at five years...meaning they don't get any raises after that. With the exception of the cost of living raise.

[Zippa D Doodah]

This is going to sound extremely self-centered, but does this mean some shortage of services at WDW? Will we see picketers milling around on property? We arrive 11/19 and I honestly just want to have a magical vacation, not be a part of some labor disagreement. Shame on both sides of not getting this thing worked out.

[Mr D]

I honestly hope the "guests" are slightly inconvenienced while visiting WDW.

There would be more of a message sent if there was cancellations of paying guests that were upset because of even minor things, we all know that. Having a strike at WDW is bringing reality into their vacationong world and that is unacceptable!

Best of wishes to the under-appreciated low paid workers that are the backbone of the largest entertainment industry in the world.

And I have noticed that almost all of the posters against the strike are first timers......

[Gathrn]

I will raise my hand at being a first timer. I assume that my number of posts qualifys me for that title, and not how long I have been registered here. What that has to do with anything I am not sure, but I get to be a part of a group. (Do we have t-shirts?)

From what I see, This seems to have two sides.

Those that are against the strike are not against the negotiation, but rather against the tactic of picketing in front of a buisness until the group gets what they want.

The other side seems to be that a strike is a tool to put pressure on the corperation to see the point of view of the picketers.

Both sides here want fair wages, whatever they may be for the field. It just seems a difference of opinion in determining what fair wages mean. That is the way I understand it. Would someone who is pro-picketing please let me know what use it has besides putting pressure on the employer by intentionally trying to hamper their buisness.

[wilki32]

4th time here Mr D!

[Mr D]

4 posts in two years? and I thought i was a master at lurking...;)

My post was directed more to the fact that WDW is really very concerned about losing any revenue in the upcoming holidays, look at the lost revenue from guests canceling trips during the recent hurricanes. And of course these boards have different sides of any issue reading these comments with posters on both sides trying to convince their ideas of what is right or wrong.

Currently with Eisner testifying about why and hows of the Ovitz departure there is some genuine concern about where the real money needs to be spent or more in perspective how its being spent by the no-future brained leaders in charge.

I wish it was possible to make Eisner pay back under a judges ruling all ill-timed and poorly concieved business dealings under his tenure back to the real heart of Disney....the cast members.

From the $100 million paid to Ovitz, the excessive amount paid to build DCA, ALL the useless and poorly themed rides built both at DL and WDW in the last decade, the some what undisclosed amounts that were paid out for injuries over the same period from the Columbia incident to the Roger Rabbit ride (actually quite a few were paid behind closed doors) that was a direct result of poor maintenance that was condoned from the very top.

ME is terribly terribly wealthy, he could not spend $10,000 a day and be broke before he dies he is that rich, all from the hardworking low paid held in poor regard cast members that only wanted to be part of Walt Disney's dream and legacy.

I say strike, for as long as it takes, just to prove a point.

[KNWVIKING]

I am against the strike and I'm not a 1st timer. What I am is a two timer..... meaning I saw my father suffer thru two ugly strikes that basically got him nothing. 10 years from retirement, during the 80's when the economy was in the toilet his union put them out for seven months - right thru Thanksgiving & Christmas. He spent all his savings, maxed out credit, he and my mom spent time in the hospital with NO medical coverage ( health benifits as well as paychecks stop during a strike). They finally went back to work with barely more then the original offer ( during the negotiations, the Company made several offers, each time the Union bosses told it's members " You can vote Yes to accept it, but the answer is NO regardless of how you vote" ). The company lost contracts because they couldn't fill them so immediately following the strike there were huge layoffs. My father ( and 100's of others) never recovered financially from that strike.

A strike IS NOT THE ANSWER. It will help NO ONE. It will only hurt those holding the picket signs. The people who can least afford to lose their paychecks are the only ones who are going to suffer.

[Mark P.]

Anyone know when the votes will be tallied, and if any info. will be available today or tonight?

[TimandTanya]

So, according to Mr. D, if you are new to the boards, you don't have a brain or a conscience?

MR. D, please let me know when I've posted enough to be able to grace the boards with posts that actually mean something please!!

And if I can't reach the lofty goal, of becoming a poster that is deemed "READABLE", I will gladly stop posting.

[DancingBear]

For the record, I'm not arguing about whether striking is or is not a good idea for the CMs, only that they have every right to do so, and it doesn't make them the bad guys in this negotiation, any more than Disney refusing to improve their offer makes them the bad guys.

[ginaforpeace]

I'm going there next week, and no matter how the atomsphere is I'm going to have the best time there. This is the first vacation I have been on in years and this is the first time my daughter went to WDW. If I see alot of picketers, i will just explain to my daughter the reason being and continue on into the park.

Another question, How much do people working at Six Flags make, or Hershey Park make?Is it more than workers at Disney?

[wdhatter]

I have a hypothetical scenario....

One of the two unions who do not want to approve this contract represent the Characters. Let's say they do not go to work and go on strike.

There would be no shows or parades at all due to being a rehearsed role.

Very few characters would be out doing meet and greets because for those they can use managers.

Don't flame me out....I'm not going to take a side...I'm just curious how that would affect anyone's vacation.

[Zippa D Doodah]

As someone who will be spending thousands to take his family of four to WDW tomorrow, I must confess I am probably in a very selfish state of mind about this thing. BUT, if the unions can't even get together about whether to agree or not, it seems like it seriously erodes the position of the unions that are holding out. At the same time, I will be very disappointed in WDW if they let negotiations over small amounts affect what happens in the parks -regarding characters or whatever.

The way I see it, workers have a right to strike; employers have a right to use part time labor to fill needed positions. If workers go on strike they must be fully prepared to endure the consequences. On the other hand, employers must bear the conequences if they can't staff their business. If this were a game, I would wager that Disney wins every single time.

Here is where it is so great to live in a free country though. Workers can leave. There are other jobs. Working for Walt is not the only path in life. I assume unions would help members with training for other jobs etc. This country was founded on taking chances. I encourage all workers who are unhappy to take a chance and do something else with life.

Having said that, I think the CMs at WDW are so great. The people there do so much to make sure all of us have an excellent vacation experience. What I have come to learn though is that if someone chooses to work there they make a choice/ sacrifice. One sacrifices higher wages, better benefits, etc, for the opportunity to work for Disney. If that's a tradeoff you can or will make, then fine. If not maybe there are other employment opportunities to be explored so that employees can more responsibly and reasonably support their families.

If there are no parades or character greetings we'll have a great time anyway. But I just may think for a moment: "What a bunch of dummies on both sides for letting it come to this. Disney's reputation is being tarnished another little bit AND hardworking people are turning their backs on paychecks and benefits. And for what? I sure hope everyone remembers to thank the union bosses when its all done."

[kpk89]

I think maybe by "first timers" tending to be opposed to a strike, Mr. D. was referring to people planning their first trip to WDW (not first-timers on this board) who might (understandably) be more disappointed at the thought of things being less than magical because of a strike.

I could be way off, but I took that comment to not be related (directly) to the number of DIS posts somebody has made.

[raidermatt]

For the record, I'm not arguing about whether striking is or is not a good idea for the CMs, only that they have every right to do so, and it doesn't make them the bad guys in this negotiation, any more than Disney refusing to improve their offer makes them the bad guys.
DB, I agree 100%.

My father was also on strike for a long period of time, back in the late 70's. I wasn't old enough to really get what was going on, but I do remember it stunk. I'm pretty sure we didn't gain enough from company concessions to make up for the 10 months or so of lost wages.

But that doesn't mean a strike is never necessary. For younger workers, they just might make up that difference, and certainly future workers will be in a better place because of it. If the strike is relatively short, all workers may end up ahead.

We all know why unions started. And its been pointed out that there are other protections in place for workers. Some have concluded that this makes Unions and strikes obsolete.

I could not disagree more. No, if unions were abolished, conditions would not revert back to the early days of the industrial revolution. But if you think a significant number of companies would not take advantage of the workers' decreased leverage, you are mistaken.

I don't know enough about this situation to judge who is really being the hard rear in this case. But I do know that there are bad unions, and there are bad companies. To make blanket judgments about when tactics are justified is taking far to narrow a view of these types of situations.

***"What bargaining power do the union leaders have in negotiations if the threat of a strike is not behind it?"***

Work slowdowns. Blue Flu. Refusal of overtime. Going to the media.

C'mon now... Work slowdowns? Are you suggesting that CMs start making our food slower? Take longer to give us change? Purposely load rides slower? Besides getting berated by incensed guests, anyone who truly believes in Walt's vision wouldn't be able to allow themselves to do this. Many believe you either do your job right or you don't do it.

I'd hope that many at Disney have that attitude.

Blue flu? With so many hourly employees, I don't think this would be very wise. It would essentially be a mini-strike, and if Disney is willing to deal with a full scale strike, I'm sure they could withstand some extra CMs calling in sick.

Refusal of overtime? Most companies are trying to minimize overtime, and I'm sure that's the case with Disney... that's one reason for having so many hourlies working 20-30 hours a week. (not the only reason, of course). Likely wouldn't cause Disney much concern.

Going to the media? Isn't that what they are doing now, through their union reps? If Disney actually lets them go on strike, it would be a pretty good indication that they weren't too concerned about the public's perception of their employees' working conditions/benefits.


Again, there are good and bad unions, just as there are good and bad companies. I'm honestly not sure if one side really shares more blame than the other in this case, but I do know it ALWAYS takes two to make an agreement, and there are just as many pig-headed company negotiators out there as there are pig-headed union negotiators.

Would someone who is pro-picketing please let me know what use it has besides putting pressure on the employer by intentionally trying to hamper their business.
If done properly, it merely makes customers aware of the situation, allowing them to make an informed decision, if they choose to do so.

Note that I'm not talking about physically obstructing customers or workers, or verbally berating anyone. All to which I am adamantly opposed.

[JonetteA]

I understand how frustrating this must be for those of you who have been planning this trip for a long time. I too will be there 12/2 - 12/6.

However, the difference is that I know people that work for Disney. I hesitate to guess that most of you make over 8.00 an hour. My friend who has over 10 years seniority with Disney, is making 11.00 an hr. That is without overtime. Excuse me, but I think that she deserves a raise and better wages.

Can you feed your family of 4, pay for a house, healthcare, etc on 8-9.00 an hour?

If you can, I would love to know how you do it.

This is only one example out of all of my friends that work at WDW. Even the salary positions do not pay well.

[KNWVIKING]

Matt I'll keep an open mind when it comes to discussing "philosophy" and all other Car debates. But I'm sorry, striking is not the answer when all it's going to boil down to is nickles and dimes. If we were talking about truely unfair or unsafe working conditions I'd feel differently but in most cases - including this one - that's not the case. If they strike now, just wait and see how ugly it gets the next time the contract is up for renewal. All Disney will do is spend the next three years "pursuing other options".

You have a situation here where not even the unions can agree with each other. According to one post here one of the unions threatened to fire anyone who didn't vote the way the union wanted them too.

I don't know what the payscale is at WDW. Don't know if it's more or less then SW or US/IOA. What I do know though is that each job has a ceiling. A stock boy making $6.00 an hour today isn't entitled to $20.00 per hour in 10 years. Some jobs were never intended to be career positions and a strike isn't going to change that.

[raidermatt]

Of course strikes are ugly. But when you're dealing with a pig-headed company (not saying this is the case here), you can't just take the strike option off the table. If you do, all it does is embolden the pig-headed companies, and encourage those who aren't to become so.

Yes, the workers need to take a serious look at what they are asking for, and if its realistic given the marketplace.

[shirley 38]

I have one thing to say. "WOULD WALT DISNEY LET THIS HAPPEN"???????????????

[KNWVIKING]

***"I have one thing to say. "WOULD WALT DISNEY LET THIS HAPPEN"???????????????"***

I have know idea. Do you ?

[Luv2Roam]

If I recall correctly, there was an animator's strike during Walt's time. Am I incorrect?

Not saying I am pro or anti union. I just think the union and it's members are between a rock and a hard place.
No strike and they might as well get rid of the union. They prove to be near worthless.
Strike and others will do the work needed anyway.

[TheRustyScupper]

We will have to see what happens at WDW.

1) The union has the Federal right to strike.
2) The union leaders may feel this is the best method.
3) In the event of a strike,
. . . WDW declares an impasse and goes forward
. . . WDW can implement any of the last terms presented
. . . the union cannot object
. . . WDW can hire temporary replacement workers
. . . the temps won't go after a settled strike *
. . . WDW might get along with the non-union people
. . . less than 50% of eligible employees are union
4) Overall, not a smart move on behalf of the union(s).
5) If this happens, the union(s) will be broken and bust.


* In the case of a strike, management can bring in temporary workers. In some settlements, the temps are let go and union people return to work. In most settlements, the union people ONLY come back when there are new openings or temps leave.


PS - I ran a plant in a right-to-work state. The union went on strike. Non-union employees came to work. We hired temp replacements for the balance of the jobs. The union stayed on strike for more than three months. After the strike, only 17 of 238 strikers got their jobs back. The union disappeared before the next contract negotiations.


PPS - If the Teamsters strike and the above happens, this would be a major hurt for the union. The Teamsters have a special Federal law regarding their Health and Pension Fund and the fund would suffer greatly if the above occurs.

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam
If I recall correctly, there was an animator's strike during Walt's time.You are correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney_animators%27_strike

[peter11435]

The new contract has been approved. Go to www.orlandosentinel.com for more info.

[KNWVIKING]

Thank goodness.

[Mark P.]

As I posted the other day, my gut feeling was that it would pass, thankfully....

[TheRustyScupper]

1) As I have said, no strike.
2) The union is toothless.
3) As strike isn't the way and they won't realize the only path.
4) No creativity or flexibility

5) In a universe of change, the union leader mentality is the ONLY known constant in the universe.

[kymberwolf]

NO STRIKE IS A GOOD THING!


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/custom/tourism/orl-asecdisneyunion19111904nov19,0,4607245.story?coll= orl-home-headlines