New DVC Resort in 2004 at WDW

[anim8or98]

WDI just got the go ahead to do another Disney Vacation Club Resort on Disney property (in addition to the new Beach Club villas). The yet-to-be-named resort will be built next to Eagle Pines Golf Course, and will be the biggest DVC Resort yet. It will have a killer pool (with a slide of course), and will be designed by the same designer who did Coronado Springs (Gund). It is set to be open in phases starting in 2004.

Anim8or98:)

[Coronado Williams]

Wow, this is one rumor that has spun waaaaay out of control...

That fake press release someone wrote up the other day was pretty good though. A bit flawed, but good.

[rollercoaster]

No it's true do to www.wdwmagic .com they have an official press release as well as a nice piece of concept art. Check it out

[Banzai]

Another one?!?! We need another moderate.

[deerh]

ANOTHER MODERATE! Come on, the 5000+ Pop century resort is value,
cheaper than a moderate, and great location. What are you talking about,
another moderate? GEESH........
deerh:confused:

[Quentin Disney]

Like the DVC needs another resort. No ill will to the people who invest in such a thing, but I think the ideal of the DVC sounds so elite-ish to me. Moderate, Value or Super-snotty Dexlue, they need to stop building these resorts. Build some quality attractions and then you create the places that people need to stay.

[Werner Weiss]

See the official July 23 Disney press release, Disney Vacation Club Announces Plans for Largest Ownership Resort to Date At Walt Disney World Resort (http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.072301/212042407), at the Business Wire press release Web site.

Or see the same press release, Disney Vacation Club Announces Plans for Largest Ownership Resort to Date At Walt Disney World Resort (http://news.excite.com/news/bw/010723/fl-disney-vacation-club), at Excite's news site.

Also, see the Orlando Sentinel article, Disney ready to build 600-unit time share (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/orl-biz-disney24072401.story?coll=orl%2Dbusiness%2Dheadlin es), which includes a small picture. Click on the picture for a bigger picture.

The usual disclaimer applies that the above links are vailid as I'm posting this item, but may not be valid by the time you click on them.

[NFalzon]

The reason why WDW is building another DVC instead of a moderate is pretty simple: Right now all of the standard resorts (Deluxes on down to values) are at an unusually low level of occupancy. Pop Century gets delayed because there just won't be the people to fill the rooms--Beach Club Villas gets sped up because THE PLACE IS GOING TO SELL OUT WITHIN ONE YEAR. Price Increases haven't slowed demand one bit. The quality of the resorts with the sensible math of the Club make it a no brainer for everyone involved--and that is why membership is skyrocketing while many older members increase their ownership at the new resorts.

And the beauty of DVC is simple: when you know you're going to be going EVERY YEAR until 2042, you stop worrying about them not building this or that ride--these resorts become vacation homes--destinations in and of themselves. Particularly, the OKW-style of resort, and just as the Eagle Pines Resort seems to be.



I guess I just don't understand why something that seems purely sensible to me is "elitist".

Nick

[prncssjas]

[B][COLOR=purple]Well said Nick. We bought DVC because it was a chance for those of us who love WDW to visit more often in an economical way...not be perceived as elitist or snobby. It's a cheaper way for us to visit...why not? Who wouldn't want to chance to go every year if possible? To each their own, I suppose.

[DVCDAVE]

Why is it that whenever some one has what some body else wants or can't afford, it is elitist or snobby ? What is this Mother Russia ? Maybe those who are against DVC resorts should run some numbers and see the economic value, and that it is cheaper in the long run then paying for each stay. Being smart is not being elitist or snobby.

[tinkandme]

ELITIST?

Why that's the nicest thing I've been called in a long time:D

Going for 15 days to OKW. Couldn't have afforded it any other way.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Whoa!! Scoop!! You're DVC??? After making that investment, how can you not be scared right down to your very last point that Ei$ner isn't sucking the place dry!!?? Not DVC in particular (that's one of the few untouched sanctuaries) but the rest of "The World"!! Oh well. I guess I'll never understand it!! ;)

I don't think the thrust of Quentin's post was specifically in reference to those snobbish DVC people. It was begging the question why ANY resorts are being built when the parks are sooooo veeeery stagnant. And I happen to agree. Now before everybody flames me, let me say, I understand the finances, but damn it!! It just ain't right!!!

:bounce: ;) ;) :bounce:

PS: (Read with an aristocratic (maybe English) accent) Why are we (DVCers) even condescending to answer this thread. I thought we were all above this sort of nonsense!! I, for one, am going back to count my points for the Grand Villa!! ;)

[JeffJewell]

...to post this. It seems almost on topic in this thread.

I have a problem with the Disney Vacation Club. Whether or not it's a purchase for you is your own personal head-scratcher, but there's a small problem with the business economics of the thing.

The whole point of DVC (as far as Disney is concerned, anyway) is to get people to pay for 40 years worth of vacation today, or in the next ten years, if you use their financing. Either way, in the next few years, Disney gets to claim as profits the money they should have made over the next 40 years for resort stays.

What happens to your resort in year 25, when the lions share of that money has been gone for a decade or more? What will the executive bonuses look like in 2030, when the time comes to provide the services for which Eisner has long since cashed the checks?

I'll let others debate whether or not DVC is a reasonable purchase for an individual to make. For a company, the unique DVC arrangement is the privatized equivalent of Social Security: the numbers look good at the beginning, but the equation changes over the years. It's a really stupid way to mortgage your company's future (unless, of course, you're already planning to bail out long before the $#!+ hits the fan).

Jeff

[NFalzon]

In truth, the initial payment, when one purchases points has NOTHING to do with the maintenance of the resort--
DVC divides the amount of money spent on the resort by the price per point--and that is how the number of points linked to the resort is determined (chicken--egg/price--points/works out in the end balancing the needs of current members with purchasers, or so we hope). The money we pay up front, every penny of it, pays for the resort's capitalization, NOT it's maintenance.

In truth, and here's a whopper, the money we pay for points is not direct profit for Disney--really it pays bills that most other resorts absorb over a much longer calendar. (BWV takes approx. 3 years to be "paid" for--I would suspect the profits of a place like GFlo are only just now paying its capitalization!)

Why does Disney do this? Two reasons: A) They get other people (DVC Members) to pay for resorts in a shorter amount of time. And with that cash, they can turn around and build another DVC resort. Which would lead to an endless circle (of life?) until we get to B) They get DVC Members to lock themselves into 50 or so years of vacations (oh no, the torture!): food, park tickets, souvenirs, etc.

But what happens when our $75/point disappears (as it does the minute we put it down as it simply is paying a "debt")? How does the resort maintain itself?

Dues.

$3.65/point for the WLV.

I'm getting two hotel rooms in January for 5 nights--that SHOULD cost around $2000.

It costs me less than 1/3 of that.

And I won't mention the fact that no one complains about Member Services they way everyone seems to complain about CRO.

And that they act as my travel agent.

And that I get discounts.

And can pool hop.

Nick

[DVC-Landbaron]

What happens to your resort in year 25, when the lions share of that money has been gone for a decade or more? That is why I am so vocal.

When I first bought, my rose colored glasses were firmly in place. It was 1992 and Disney could do no wrong!! I thought about the very issue you brought up. But only in passing. I firmly believed and trusted that MY Disney would only improve with age. And given Walt's philosophy (which I mistakenly thought was still in place) I don't think it was a bad guess. But now… WOW!! I am very concerned. I fear you may be quite right. And I don't like it one little bit!!! :(

[lodgelady]

I just bought DVC this year after many years of great Disney vacations. I am no fan of Mr Eisner, and I mostly agree with the opinion that he is only interested in the bottom line- but with a publicly traded company here in the U.S. of A, that is what the shareholders demand.....ever increasing PROFITS. To rise up and protest in some organized and large scale-way or figure out how to make WDW a non profit organization might be two solutions. In the meantime, DVC is a way for Disney to build resorts with out passing on the cost to ticket holders, in turn DVC owners get some controls over the cost and quality of their vacations. Seems to be a win-win situation to me!

[NFalzon]

When I added on at WLV and met with my guide, I said, "Not that my 2 cents matter, but I would love a resort that would be alot like OKW in its style..."

My wish came true.

Note, the question wasn't whether or not they would build but rather which one.

DVC is, in my not too humble opinion, one of the finest run aspects of the Company--for the company, shareholders, and guests.
Nick

[Quentin Disney]

I'm sorry for overreacting about the DVC. I guess its really easy to attack something that you can't (yet) afford (I am still in college you know!). I know little of what the DVC is all about, and its pretty obvious that the cost to invest in something like this is certainly out of my league. (And just renewing my AP is considered a major expense for me!, But I know what I will get from it.) Like DVC-Landbaron said, I was kind of concerned why they would do such a move even though the current resorts are doing poo-poo in bookings compared to last year. But if the other DVC resorts are selling out, then I guess its a supply and demand type of thing.

I still think they should at LEAST add more attractions (Dino Rama notwithstanding) to DAK, a park that is declining in attendance.

[DVCDAVE]

Thank You Quentin, I knew from reading your proir posts over the last six months, you are a good guy and Disney fan like the rest of us. I always enjoyed reading your prior posts and enjoyed your signature with you and Minnie. I accept your appology, and end it at that. I am also sympathetic, as I too was a college student when I first visited WDW. I am still amazed how $200 could get me a WDW vacation in Fort Wilderness !!! But your economy too will change, as mine has. Stay in school, graduate, and work to your best ability.

[NFalzon]

Quentin--

I urge you, if you are as avid a Disney-goer as you seem to be, just take the tour. It takes an hour and half out of your time, and it doesn't even feel like a "business" meeting. There are many ways to get in on it now, before the price goes up too much more and places like Wilderness Lodge Villas are gone for good. Worst case scenario--you lose an hour and a half, though you probably get a free lunch at ESPN or even just some cotton candy--Best case scenario: you figure out a way to put a little bit of money down now and pay for your next 40 years of trips.

I'm in college too, and with a little bit of work I've managed it, and my last trip was over July 4th in a 1-Bedroom Villa (which is essentially a Suite) at the Boardwalk with a great airfare rate that I got from DVC. And that's my third trip this year.
Nick

[Dan Murfman]

DVC-Landbaron,

I have a question for you. I really have enjoyed my DVC purchase. We bought in March of 2000. We've taken 3 trips and couldn't think of selling. But in reading your many posts I guess I've become discouraged with Disney. So with the resale market basically being a sellers market have you thought of dumping your ownership? I must be honest I am considering it now.

[DVC-Landbaron]

But in reading your many posts I guess I've become discouraged with Disney.I'm sorry. I didn't mean to rain on your parade. That's not what I'm about. A quick trip to WDW will fix you. I'm going again in a week (and many say it's none too soon)!! There is still enough 'magic' to cure all but the blackest of hearts! Although Safari Steve did let me down with the MK closing at Ten!!! ;)

So with the resale market basically being a sellers market have you thought of dumping your ownership? Nah! I'm gonna ride this CEO out. I'm in it for the long term. I'm hardheaded!! Just ask the Captain or DisDuck. I think on many levels the Disney company can be a vital force. Just look at the DVC program! That still has a lot of WOW in it! But I don't foresee much else with the current administration. And I think that many more people are becoming aware of this. Just look at all the negative press that Disney gets. I just hope it happens soon.

Ask me again when a new CEO is named. I think that in the business world today Ei$ner's way won't work with a company like Disney. Hey, Walt's way might not either. Maybe a new creativity is called for. Something that will fuse the SHOW with the ever present bottom line of 'increasing shareholder value'. (Which I'm not totally against, being a stockholder.)

However, if they get another 'sharp-pencil-guy', or like Ei$ner, just inept, well, maybe I'd consider selling. But if they can get a guy with a vision, a little creativity, and most important someone who 'gets the SHOW philosophy', then I may even buy more points!! You never can tell.

HEY CAPTAIN!!! Does that make me a 'glass half full' kind of guy!!?? ;)

[Peggy Sue]

We joined DVC in 1997 and have enjoyed every minute of our membership! You can't knock it until you've taken the time to take the tour and find out what it is all about. It isn't for everyone..but what time share arrangement is?

For us, we've enjoyed fantastic vacations, at beautiful resorts we never would have been able to afford without DVC.

DVC has 60,000+ members, and keeps on growing every day. They must be doing something right!

WDW is experiencing a down turn in their attendence this year because of the economy...and it's not just WDW..but every vacation destination is suffering this year. It is discouraging to hear about all the cut backs at WDW, but then again it's even more discouraging to hear about all the companies out there struggling and seeing friends and family deal with loss of jobs etc. too.

[airlarry!]

I too read Q's comments more in the light of his complaints as an average Disney fan...why more and more resorts instead of more and more things in the parks for the average fan to enjoy.

Which brings me to this point, one I am pretty sure was covered by someone at some time, that in Eisner's philosophy, additional parks are for additional resorts, and not the other way around.

In other words, Eisner built AK but only spent enough money on it to justify 2-3 more resorts, which means less people staying offsite. More gates is the Eisner answer to losing money outside the world to the Motel 6's of the real world.

A sound business practice? Of course.

BUT IS THAT THE DISNEY WAY? BUILD GATES TO JUSTIFY MORE ROOMS?

NO! It should be the other way around. Build a beautiful park, not just a place to 'house' more on-site guests, but as an experience that will get people to want to stay on site. You see, if you take Eisner's philosophy to its logical extreme, then it is okay to build 5 or 6 or 7 half-day parks, because the investment in them is only to attract more and more people to stay on-site. If you only had the MK here, or just Epcot, there's no way Disney builds 30k+ rooms because the parks would be too crowded.

Argh. What I am trying to say is that Q is right. They are adding to the world to justify more rooms, not to create more Show.

'Course I say this, just as am slowly trying to influence my wife toward a family purchase of DVC! ;)

[Synonymous]

'Course I say this, just as am slowly trying to influence my wife toward a family purchase of DVC!

That's just it. WDW is the premier vacation destination in the world. Do a search for threads on wait times and crowds. Why is everybody going there if Disney is being run into the ground by Eisner? Maybe we'd like some things to be done differently, but c'mon. We wouldn't be here on this board if it wasn't such a great place.

[Safari Steve]

Mouse:Mickey::Optimistic: DVCLandbaron... Hmm, never thought I'd see that analogy on the SATs...
;)

[fkj2]

I still think the DVC has been a good vacation choice as well as a good investment, particularly for those who bought in early. It certainly becomes less attractive monetarily as time closes in on 2042. I think if you take into account the varied types of accommodations available to members, it's a good choice.

As far as criticism of Eisner, it is true that the company stock has not done well of late. When he took control of the company however, Disney was precariously close to being broken up and sold off. I think the book is called, "Barbarians at the Gate". The parks were in terrible condition. I think the only hotels on property at that time (late 70s) were the Contempory, Polynesian, and Shades of Green although it was called something else then, I think the Disney Inn. Eisner came in and some great things began to happen. The stock climbed in price and split several times.

As with any success story during the recent bull market in stocks, many companies tried to grow faster than they should have. I think Dis is one of them. I also believe Eisner's theory is to have tourists come to Dis property and never leave it while they are in Florida; a monopoly that the guests choose for themselves so to speak. The problem is that while he was planning so were his competitors, as evidenced by the proliferation of hotels, condos, timeshares, houses, etc for rent.

A year ago in March, you couldn't find an empty hotel room on Dis property. This situation now is because of economic slowdown both domestically and abroad. It may take years to work through this slowdown and we may be lucky if this is as bad as it gets. I have to say I am somewhat surprised that the DVC inventory continually is worked down especially as the price per point has increased so dramatically. The allure is staying on-site. Should tourists conclude that significantly cheaper accommodations are available off-site, this may change also.