DVC points-a trend to be worried about?

[deerh]

Just pondering the thoughts of points. If points keep going up with each resort, and you
own at say OKW or BWV, will you be "priced out of" the other resorts? If you bought 150
pts at BWV, how far will that go at BCV. or Bonnett Creek? I know, buy more points, but
when does it border on the ridiculous side of points. Now, 111 points buys a studio (standard)
at BWV in the summer, will it be 185 points or more at the new resort? Buying power of a point
is worth less and less.
I read this on another site about timeshares, it said " Be careful with point systems, as the points may go higher and higher, and your points worth less and less...."

I guess that article caught my eye, and got a little worried.. I think Disney had better watch it and not let the points go crazy, Just my mho......

Any thoughts, or was this web page on timeshares blowing smoke?????
deerh

[dianeschlicht]

I guess it might be a problem if you always wanted to go to a resort other than your home resort. I like OKW and our points are so reasonable, I have not had the desire to go elsewhere. I could pass up Eagle Pines, since it sounds like it is going to be similar in concept to OKW. I have no problem staying at my home resort.

[chris1gill]

All it says to me, is that I am glad I purchased where I want to stay the most... Regardless of where or what they build, nothing can beat the BW IMHO... We have an add on at OKW... we'll use those points for a grand villa or to try out the new resorts... We're using our OKW points this year to stay at VWL... But our favoriate is still Boardwalk, and I can't imagine what or where they will build that will be better than that....

[Richyams]

I have posted about this many times.

The argument can be made that OKW and BWV return the same value for a point spent at those resorts, I don't agree, I think a point spent at OKW returns much more value than a point spent at BWV, but the argument bolstering the value at BWV because of its location is certainly a valid one.

Now we get to VWL.

While this is a beautiful resort, it still has the same tiny rooms as BWV without its location. Yet with the omitting of "Standard View" rooms, the average point per night is actually higher than BWV. There is no doubt at all, it is completely unargueable, a point spent at VWL returns less value than a point spent at BWV.

Because VWL has some similarities in location to OKW and OKW has much, much larger units, a point spent at VWL returns less value than a point spent at OKW.

If the point schedules continue to rise, it will make OKW and BWV very much in demand at the seven month window. Home resort is going to become ever more important. I feel sorry for those that were duped by dishonest, eager sales people into buying at VB for WDW DVC stays.

I had a much, much longer analysis of the comparative values returned for a point spent at the various resorts many months ago.

Disclaimer: Some people will find the atmosphere and resort at VWL to be so desirable that they would pay double the points

Disclaimer: Some people bought at VB to stay at VB

[chris1gill]

It's good to put your disclaimers in Rich!!! I just remembered something, and it has very little to do with this conversation BUT.... I've noticed, that when new resorts open (both BW & VWL) It is much easier in the first year to book your reservation there if you don't own there... So for instance, this year it was very easy for me to use my OKW points for a December reservation at VWL... I absolutely believe that's due to a couple things... First, most new buyers of DVC have already had their Disney vacations for the year, and second... all the buyers that used MB won't have vacations in the current year because they sold their points back for the first year.... I think this trend will continue for the new resorts as they open up... I'm sure that the off-site owners of VB & HH must be finding this true as well, because we rarely hear of VB & HH owners NOT getting a reservation...

[Dean]

Chris1gill, it should be easier to book at a resort that's still selling but not very seasonal. HH is different because of the short season. DVC must declare inventory before it is sold so there will always be extra inventory. Points and the units they represent that are used for the Magical Beginnings will not be available for points reservations only for cash.

As for the price per point AND the number of points required being increased, it's the standard in the industry. You want to convince someone that owns at the older resort that they need to buy into the newer resort. You can do this by making the number of points they already own inadequate or by other restrictions such as home resort priority and since the price has gone up, you get more money out of them. Since DVC has no obligation to provide owners at the older resorts with "fair" access to the newer resorts, I think you will see this trend continue. BCV will be no problem to justify higher points as many see it as the top destination already. If bonnet creek comes to pass, DVC has a problem. They will need to offer something to justify higher prices AND/or more points. My suspicion is that the price per point will be more but the number of points required will be actually a little less than WLV, BCV, BWV preferred. Of course they could do things like free park passes (doubtful), free golf, a great pool ... let your imagination run wild for what they could add.

[PamOKW]

At the time of your purchase you knew what length of time and type of accomodation your investment would give you at your home resort and all existing resorts. DVC makes no promises that additional resorts will even be included in the DVC.

I think pushing the 150 point purchases, while it made DVC affordable, requires the owner to do a lot of planning and juggling to get the most out of the DVC experience. The original 230+ point minimum gave a lot more flexibility.

Dean's reasoning that higher points encourages older owners to make additional purchases seems to make quite a bit of sense.

[WebmasterDoc]

You want to convince someone that owns at the older resort that they need to buy into the newer resort. You can do this by making the number of points they already own inadequate or by other restrictions such as home resort priority and since the price has gone up, you get more money out of them.

In addition to Dean's solid comments and insight, the cost to construct the resorts has continued to increase. In order to recoup all construction costs and maintain a similar profit margin, the sales price and/or point cost per night must also increase.

It costs more to build BCV in 2001 than it did to build OKW in 1991 and construction costs for VEP to open in 2004 will most likely be even higher. Annual maintenance fees will likely remain in the same range as the current resorts, since those costs are all similar.

Stay tuned!

[mikesmom]

We knew when we bought our points what we were getting for the dollar. No one ever encouraged me to buy against future resorts. There were 2 resorts onsite and 2 offsite where points could be used and I was perfectly satisfied with that (still am!). Actually, I'm even happier now as we took a quick stay at VB before going "home" to BWV this summer and it was awesome!

I didn't know and didn't care about VWL, BCV or Bonnet. I look at new resorts as costing what they cost for new owners and if we decide to check them out, it's just a little fringe benefit. I'm getting more bang for my buck if they are available at all.

[reneesam]

The higher points required for a week's stay at BWV and (later) at VWL were exactly what prompted our add-on...so the strategy worked. When we bought our resale at OKW, we bought exactly what we thought we'd need at home...however we decided to add on a "cushion" (right before OKW sold out) just in case we decided to stay elsewhere. I'm so glad we did...at the time it seemed like an unecessary expense, but looking at the prices now as well as the rack rates for DVC rooms makes it seem an even smarter move. Even if BCV and Bonnet Creek are higher, we'll have enough options to satisfy our needs. Did anyone else buy a little extra just to be able to stay away from home?

[Laurajean1014]

I bought in '95 when the rates (what seemed high) now are quite afforable! We have added 5 additional times since our initial purchase. We're contemplating on adding on again.

My DH and I never thought of DVC as an investment, but rather a vehicle for planned annual (now quarterly) vacations with our family.

The post which stated to keep the initial buy at 230 has an excellent point! 230 still gives you many options as opposed to 150!

Since '95 we have seen the points increase for a room. (NOTE: we were pleasantly suprized that it was modest). That may have prompted us to add-on, but more importantly, our family is getting older and kids are starting school. (Therefore, will no longer vaca in value seasons, hence the need for add on points).

We have also helped our CT DVC rep by referring 20 people and having 14 sign! (No gifts allowed in CT).

We believe in the value that much! I have not met a DVCr whom is selling, but met many whom are buying. I believe that Disney needs to create more resorts if they plan on selling more DVC. At one point, I would like to see the growth taper before it becomes too exposed.

I am all for exceptional value, and I believe I found it with DVC!

MHO

L

[Richyams]

There is a dark side to all of this. If the new resorts become DVC resorts and have higher points per night costs, many will want to get the extra value from spending their points at OKW or BWV. This is going to make shorter notice reservations much, much harder to get at our home resorts.

I am glad I have the eleven month window. I do use it every time. It is somewhat dismaying to see them take away my ability to make short notice reservations.

I think that home resort is going to become ever more important as time goes on.

[Chuck S]

Rich, I agree with you...but somewhere there has to be a stopping point, as DVC will not longer be a value since it ends in 2042. Sooner or later new resorts/point sales will have to stop or be rolled into a new "DVC-2". If they do design a new DVC, I really hope that they cannot use 'our' resorts with points..of course, we couldn't use our points for the new resorts either.
Unless they work out a trade like the concierge collection or something.

Folks joining now are paying at least 50% more per point and have 10 years less use than we older members. I really can't see our original DVC still selling in 10 years, when the price from Disney would be even higher with only 30 years use available.

[mikesmom]

To you "older" members, 40 years at increased price doesn't look good as you folks got 50 years (and, of course, you took all the risks of a new deal). But even in 10 years, I expect that 30 years may still look like a lot to someone buying in.

If your age at buy in is say, 40 years old, then with 40 to go, you'll be 80 when it expires! In 10 years a forty year old will still be able to see vacationing 'til he's 70! That's still a lot of time if you don't feel the norm is 50 years.

DH and I bought in last year at age 49. We'll be be 90 before the thing runs out and frankly, that's plenty. Our youngest teen will be grown and 60 (yikes!) and will have had the chance to go many times with his future family. I feel we'll have our money's worth and I expect a new buyer in 10 years may feel the same way.

For comparison's sake, I'll bet most people pay (a lot) more for a car and don't get 20% of that time out of it. And before you tell me there are no dues with a car, may I remind you of oil, gas, tires, repairs, parts, etc. Past 6-7 years, repairs and parts on a car can easily go past dues at DVC. Which is now making me wonder about my car. Hmmm...

[deerh]

I agree with Rich and others about selling more add-ons for future resorts, but I see a
potential problem as well. If a studio at BWV is 11\nt dream season M-TH, and I bought 150
or more at the new resorts, and say their studio was 22\nt. (could be a reality), then I would
AVOID the weekends like the plague! It would cost 110 of my points just for 5 nights, with my
original 150 points, I would have to borrow for 1 week!! That seems a little absurd to me. ANd
my example is only a studio, NOT a 2 bedroom. People will really stay away from the weekends
more than now I feel. As for I don't care about VWL, BCV, Bonnett, I don't think so, people like
me who own at BWV will want to try the new resorts.

And also, you will not be getting the most Bang for you buck, as Rich always says, stay at the
DVC resorts, you get the most for your money there. Well, I don't know when the new resorts
come on line, In my example above, a week at a studio might be 200+ points, I think you can
stay in Hawaii for that...........


Deerh




I didn't know and didn't care about VWL, BCV or Bonnet. I look at new resorts as costing what they cost for new owners and if we decide to check them out, it's just a little fringe benefit. I'm getting more bang for my buck if they are available at all. [/B][/QUOTE]

[Dumbo]

Rich,

I agree with you. Boardwalk Villas and Old Key West could be very hard to get into in the future because of their low point value per villa. People paying these outragous sums to get into DVC may want to get the best bang for their buck.

New people first buying into these new DVC resorts may be paying $80. or more per point to buy in. At the minimum 150 point buy in that is over $15,000. just for the minimum. And if these new resorts have a higher point value per villa, that 150 points minimum may not even get you a studio for a week.

Where's it all going to end?

Dumbo

[Chuck S]

Mikesmom,

My point isn't that they'll definately stop selling in 10 years, I used that as an example, but rather they'll stop selling at SOME future point. Would someone pay $100 per point for 20 years remaining, or 10 years....by every DVC resort having 2042 as the cut off point, they HAVE to stop selling at SOME point or design a new plan with new resorts.

[tfc3rid]

Hi there.

Just got home from my first trip home to BWV and got some info regarding new point values at Beach Club Villas.

In speaking with my vacation sales guide, he said that the BCV points per night would be "the same" as what currently exists at BoardWalk. The only difference is that the price per pint will be higher.

[Joeblack]

It is just logical that points/day at BCV will be the same as BWV preferred or WLV, while price per point should not exceed $82. I am willing to bet on it to anybody who thinks differently.

[DB Washington]

Hi everyone,

My husband and I are in the process of buying a BWV resale. I saw someone mention "shorter notice reservations." I know you can make reservations at your home resorts 11 months in advance, but did not hear about what sounds like a restriction. Can someone explain this to me? Thank you :confused:

[JonHM]

Rich - I know that I am new, and that you have been around for a long time, but I have to respectfully disagree with you about the short term reservation issue. At *some* point, it will be better for DVC AND better for OKW if it is selling out more and more than if it is always empty enough to accomodate lots of short term reservations. If it started to become the 'slacker' DVC resort that never fills up, Disney will be a lot less likely to put money into upkeep/improvements. I completely agree that it would be a big inconvenience not to be able to get ressies without a lot of notice, but still think in the big picture that more people wanting to stay at OKW is better for OKW.

[Caskbill]

DB Washington, the point about shorter notice reservations is this:

Using OKW as an example, at the 8 to 11 month window, if you want to make a reservation at your home resort, you are only competing with other OKW owners for the units and times you desire. This is why you can almost always get what you want during the busy seasons, and have absolutely no problems at all during the low seasons.

Now let's say something came up and you find you can make a trip to WDW only 3-months from now. You'd like to make this 'shorter notice reservation'. However, now you are trying to book a room and timeframe, but you are in competition with ALL DVC owners as you are now way under the 7-month booking window.

If you're looking for Adventure season, January or September, a 1-BR S-T stay at OKW is 16 pts/night. At BWV, VWL, and presumably BCV, it would be 22 pts/night. (BWV standard views would all be gone by then for sure). So the owners at BWV, VWL and BCV would look at 5-days at their home resort for 110 points, or 5-days at OKW for 80 points, and book at OKW to save points. Thus the owners at OKW will begin losing the opportunity to book at their home resort at less than 7-months more and more. This makes advance planning even more important, and makes it more difficult to get any accommodations at shorter notice. On the flip side, this then leaves more empty rooms at BWV, VWL, or BCV at short notice, so if you're willing to spend the extra points, there will probably be more opportunity for rooms at those resorts as their owners try to save points by staying at OKW.

Just like Rich, there are disclaimers: Many bought at BWV and VWL (and will buy at BCV) because they want to stay there and have no intention staying at OKW, or maybe at Bonnet Creek. But there are also many new buyers into DVC who want to be part of the program, but once they're in, will want to stretch their points as much as possible. This is what will make it more difficult for OKW owners to book into their home resort at shorter notices.

All IMHO.

[WebmasterDoc]

I saw someone mention "shorter notice reservations." I know you can make reservations at your home resorts 11 months in advance, but did not hear about what sounds like a restriction.

The reference to "short notice reservations" is about the possibility that reservations could be more difficult to find on short notice as there become more DVC members ...and if new resorts "cost" more points than at the other DVC resorts.

From a practical standpoint, as JonHM has pointed out, DVC has no responsibility to have short notices reservations available. Theoretically, each sold out DVC resort will be filled with owners before 7 months. Reservations within 7 months may still be available as owners reserve at other resorts or cancel for personal reasons.

There is no restriction on shoet notice reservations, but they may in fact become more challengin to find as time goes on.

Enjoy!

[Cruelladeville]

You may have overlooked an additional problem when everyone books into OKW due to the cheaper point values:people will then see for themselves how terrific OKW really is, and then they will specifically ask for it in the future. That means that everyone will have to fight even harder to stay at OKW than before. It's that way at BWV right now, and it's a pain. So far, OKW is one of the better kept secrets about staying in a DVC resort. I stayed in a 2 bedroom there just two weeks ago, and we came back home determined to buy an add-on at OKW. We were blown away by the size, the beauty, and the view. DH loved drinking coffee in the morning while watching golfers tee off on the 7th hole! :D

[WebmasterDoc]

So far, OKW is one of the better kept secrets about staying in a DVC resort.


Shhhhhhhhh!! ;)

[PamOKW]

Cruella....you are a very smart cookie. ;)

[Laurajean1014]

We went into DVC knowing that it was a vehicle to "plan our vacations." (Come on, that's part of the fun!)

We have never been told in over 6 years booking, that they were booked out. We even called 2 weeks prior to our trip in December and got 3 nights at Y&BC!

I have not been disappointed by my DVC membership. Maybe that's why we added on 5 times. (OKW and BW).

If anyone is having buyer's remorse, I would gladly by another add-on!

[DB Washington]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the breakdown. I appreciate what you are saying and will keep that in mind next time we book a vacation.:)