Screaming children

[meaneausindisney]

Ok so I feel bad even posting this but I have to throw it out there~


Hubby and I just got back from a GLORIOUS trip to Disney. It was just him and I as WE are the only children we can handle right now ":)

We noticed there were quite a few occassions where we were in a movie or some sort of "quiet time" attraction and there would be the lovely, top of the lungs screaming of a child. A majority of the parents were very good about taking their little one outside so as to not ruin the film/attraction for others. But some, well, just kept their scream, whining, miserable kid seated. Now on a "ride" I understand there is nothing you can do. But in things like the preshow for the Ellen's Energy ride, the Drew Carey sounds thing, the One Man's Dream film, etc - why disrupt everyone else, it's not terribly considerate if I can be so bold. Worst example was Sci-Fi Diner. Hubby and I were seated in a car and in the "front seat" if you will, was a mom, a dad and a very angry, spitting, crying 2 yr old girl who was squirming so much she nearly landed on our little Sci-Fi table! We had to ask to be moved (BTW ...and from then on Sci Fi was GREAT). BUT the mother turned to see us sitting a couple cars over and gave US a very dirty mean look!!!!!!!!! I don't get it.

Believe me I love kids and there were so many Magical moments I had because I got to hear something wonderful that a little kid said. It adds to the magic, but I had to throw out these thoughts and see if I'm alone!?

Thanks for letting me vent :earseek:

[ChisJo]

I too do not like the parents who allow their children to behave this way and do nothing about it! I would never blame the child, for they are the responsibility of the parents. I blame the parents. I have worked in areas where it is essential that the parents control their children, yet some let them run around like it is a playground, and when they get hurt, they blamed us.
I have little patience for parents who are like this and I too have had to move because of their inconsiderate behaviors.
I do think in a place like Disney, a ride or attraction can get ruined if you are submitted to a screaming and unhappy child. But, I am happy for you that you were able to experience and enjoy the attraction later on.
Jo

[WDWguru]

It continually amazes me and I'm glad you said something. Just think what a PERFECT opportunity a WDW experience is for teaching kids of any age the meaning of manners, patience, courtesy, kindness and so many other lessons. It's unfortunate so many don't seem to take advantage, but instead use the environment as an excuse.

It's like problems experienced at WDW. I don't anticipate a problem-free experience, but I judge the company and cast by how those problems are handled. Everyone with small kids has meltdown moments (even those who have left for that afternoon nap rather than drag their overheated, overtired kids around at 4:30 and scream at them -- but that's another thread) but you can tell quite a bit by how those moments are handled.

[Simba's Mom]

OK, up on my soapbox here. Most of those children are the same ones you saw last night about 11:00, swimming or whatever, instead of several hours into a good night's sleep. Then Mom and Dad drag them out of bed the next morning and wonder why they self-destruct by noon. When our kids were little (Boy, do I feel old now!), they were always asleep at 7:30, 8:00 at the latest, at WDW (yes, the FW cabins are that quiet) and they never had a screaming melt-down. OK, now I can climb back down off the soapbox.

[TZMOM]

I hear ya!!! My son is only 14 y.o. now & I never had the cash to take him to WDW when he was younger, BUT we did go to the beach and other places at least once a year.

I was constantly amazed at how other parents (of all ages) would be yelling at their kids ALL DAY while on vacation. Who wants that? The younger kids pretty much dictate what/where/when you're going to go & do whatever. Once you get that drilled into your head (it's not about you, it's about your kids) and let the ME stuff go, you're fine.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to go on a vacation just to scream or yell at/hit their kids. What a bummer for both parties . . . .

:wave2:

[btass]

I am the mother of a 5 year old boy who has at times attempted to be a screamer. I take him away from where ever he is screaming and tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not acting appropriately and must stop immediately. It is disturbing to me and everyone around us when he acts that way. I would say the lady that gave you a dirty look is out of her #$@##$$% mind and should control her child. After all, she is the PARENT isn't she?

[KarenNY]

<b>meaneausindisney</b>, Don't feel bad about starting this thread. You have a valid point and a respectable discussion is always welcome here. I'm glad you were able to enjoy your Sci Fi experience after being moved.

[taswira]

ChisJo - You are SO RIGHT in blaming the parents! "Bad" kids are the result of "bad" (or sometimes "no") parenting.

I have noticed that the ones with incessantly screaming children are many of the same ones who will change a filthy diaper in a restaurant or on the monorail seat or park bench right next to another Guest! They think it is "too inconvenient" to use a changing table in a restroom.

About the screaming - - My nearly 82 year old mother got a hearing aid earlier this year. Far too often she has to remove it at the parks, in a show or restaurant, because a blood-curdling screamer will be near us and the parents seem to simply tune it out and pretend it isn't happening.

Many years ago I kept a Disney journal I called <I>"The Magical and the Monstrous."</I> It was a record of the wonderful sayings and actions of "cute and well-behaved" children at Disneyland, as well as the ill-mannered, screaming, food-throwing, spitting, etc. kids. I later gave it to my mom and she has since misplaced it. I am not about to do one on WDW, as it might end up weighted to the negative and I'd rather not dwell too much on that!

[Pumbaa_]

On our first trip to WDW, hubby and I were having breakfast on our last day at DXL food court and watched the little ones crying at breakfast. Our only comment (to ourselves of course :)) was it's not their first day!

Or when you hear the parents say it cost alot of money to come here and we are going to (insert whatever here)

Disney is a fantastic vacation that completely wears you out! You can go from morning to night every single day and still find more to do. It is up to the parents to sat let's have a pool day. Let's skip the fireworks tonight and get to bed early. No, you cannot go to the pool at midnight and swim for an hour.

I can dream can't i :sunny:

[vmkids]

We just had to laugh at those parenst we saw dragging their kids that were yelling and throwing fits off to the side and telling them "If you don;t stop it we will leave and have no more disney!" We just laughed and said like the kid doesn't know that isn't going to happen. Let's see shell out money, drive or fly, talked about it for months and then because I throw a fit you will just go home? YEA RIGHT! Even a young kid can figure out an empty threat!:o
Now tell them they cannot ride the next ride and they just might buy that one!
Think sometimes those fits are the parents' fault because they take the kids into gift shops and such instead of just avoiding those temptation areas!

[CarolA]

It's not just Disney. Today at Barnes and Noble, there was a child SCREAMING as she ran up and down all the aisles in the store. She pulled some books off the shelves and just had herself a wonderful time. Can you imagine what this child will be like at 16?

[meaneausindisney]

It's so nice to know I'm not alone on this topic. I love little ones, but definately agree, it's up to the parents to do some parenting when their child is reaking havoc! :)

meaneaus were in disney

[jjsmom]

I love this thread. This topic always comes up on WDW trips. One incident in particular a few trips back comes to mind. We were eating at the Plaza Rest. in MK. A young couple came in with a toddler sleeping in a stroller. Well, they get seated, order, and the kid wakes up screaming in the restaurant. They keep him strapped in the stroller, wailing like crazy while they eat their meal. The patrons (including us) were getting steamed. I don't know exactly what happened next because we paid the bill and made a quick exit.

[ChisJo]

jjsmom,
Just to add to that. I have a story that is completely unbelievable. I have worked in restaurants for years (helps to pay my University tuition!). Anyways, one night we had a couple and 2 kids come in. All I can say is thank the Lord I did not serve them. The server, poor guy, had to deal with the family who let their kid stand on the seat of the chair and just scream. They did nothing to shut him up or stop him - he just screamed! And not only once, oh no, the entire time! I am getting frustrated actually thinking about it. It would have been okay if perhaps they would have speeded up their ordering and eating, but no, it's like they were on a first date and just kept letting him do it! It was so unbelievable. People were walking out - so we were losing business because of it. And not just people in that section - people in the whole restaurant (it is quite large and seat over 300 people). People were requesting that their meals be boxed up so that they could eat at home in peace. Oh, did I mention that this was a Friday night, one of the busiest nights?
The poor server - for 3 hours, yes, three hours, they let their kids (the second one joined every now and then) do this. He made no money (because people wanted to move and no one enjoyed their meals, so he made no money in tips), and that family left him NO tip! The manager did nothing (yes, he was a useless manager) because he said "we are a family restaurant, and I cannot tell people how to manage their children!"
It was a frustrating night - mostly because the parents did not care about the comfort of anybody else!
Just had to share that story - it came to mind when JJSmom told hers.
Jo

[jjsmom]

ChisJo,

Amazing story! I cannot believe the incompetency of that manager! He/she should have certainly known better. No, he can't tell people how to raise their kids, but he has MANY responsibilities here 1) to provide ALL patrons with a pleasurable dining experience so that they'll spend more money and make HIS boss (the owner) happy. 2) to ensure his employees on that shift have the opportunity to earn a fair wage AND 3) protect the restaurant from liability when a safety is an issue (manager should have NEVER, EVER let that kid stand up in his chair. Kid could have injured himself, another diner, or a wait person).

Oh that poor waiter, I believe I would have walked out the door and never looked back!

[Tasha+Scott]

Now this is a thread I can get into! Thanks for starting it up! I have so many stories...but I will only share a few b/c I don't think you want me to type for hours! :tongue:
Anyway, I worked at a preschool a few years back. I taught 2 and 3 year olds. I liked my job for the most part, but there is always one child that will stress you out. Well, this adorable little 3 year old did it for me. She could be so cute and sweet...as long as she got her way. Well, one day, she didn't get her way. She wanted candy; I said no. She called me a @#$%*! I'll let you figure that one out...let's just say it is also what some people call female dogs. I reported it to both her parents and the preschool director. Parents did nothing...no surprise...where do you think she learned it? This is the part where you will shake your heads in disgust. But the preschool director actually said, "She is only 3, she didn't understand what she said." I know, I was shocked. How can you be a preschool owner and be that ignorant?? :confused:
Anyway, I also worked at a Pet store once. A little girl (also about 3) got mad b/c her mom wouldn't let her hold a bag of fish. So she slapped her mom across the face so hard that it left a red hand print on her cheek. What did the mom do? She told her she would tell the little girl's father when he got home that night. I had trouble not spanking the kid for the mother...I couldn't believe she didn't do it!
Okay, now, for those of you w/children, don't get offended by this, but I don't think it is a good idea to take really little kids to WDW. I know when I was little some of the rides scared me so much that I screamed through the whole thing. I also know it is hot and tiring. My brother was one of those that had to be held until he was 4. I also know that I don't remember a lot about WDW b/c I was so small.
I always feel sorry for the little kids who are being dragged around all day in the heat and don't even get a nap! It also is not fun for those of us who don't have kids. It can ruin a lot.
Basically, I would wait until the child is old enough to be over the tantrums, not need to be held all day long, and remember the experience. Just my opinion!

[Vivianne]

My DH and I got back from DW in May.

We did experience an incident where a little girl was crying endlessly at one of the shows at MGM while her mother ignored her and finally the CM asked the mother to leave.

However, my reason for posting is because of a positive experience that redeemed some parents in my eyes. We were dining at the Askerhaus buffet. I was away from the table and when I returned my husband casually mentioned one of the kids at the next table had flung a piece of paper and it landed on his lap. He really wasn't bothered but marveled at how this paper found it's way to his lap. We just continued to eat and forgot it.

Before the family left, this little girl accompanied by her mother was at our table with this remorseful look in her eyes, apologzing to my husband for what she had done. At first I couldn't understand her but you could tell she was sorry. We both told the mother we were impressed with how she was raising her. I was glad to see how this parent is concerned about her child's behavior in public and wish there were more like her.

[Davids-Coco]

It is unfortunate that some parents don't do a good job...

My personal opinion is that you shouldn't have children until you are ready to give up any and everything. If your child is screaming, you take them out of a situation... even if it is at a party or shopping, anything. That is your job as a parent. You are no longer doing what you want and letting your children run wild. Take them out of a situation even if it means depriving yourself something. That is how my parents have always done things (when I was little obviously).

That said, my DH and I do not have any children. We are only 23 and 26, and want some "us" time where we can be in control of ourselves.

When we decide we are done being "selfish", we will have children.

[Tasha+Scott]

Originally posted by Davids-Coco
That said, my DH and I do not have any children. We are only 23 and 26, and want some "us" time where we can be in control of ourselves.

When we decide we are done being "selfish", we will have children.

I am with you on that! My DH is 25 and I am 23. After seeing what other young couples have gone through having kids so young and so soon, we decided to wait!

[seashoreCM]

(in the restaurant)

What would it be like, if each person who passed by, many deliberately going out of their way to do so, reached over and gently tousled the screaming child? Also by the way, the manager should have tipped the waiter using some money from the till and voided out a few checks to make things balance.

(in the pet shop)

If the mother had spanked the child in return, someone else would be writing this forum and flaming.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

(As told by Max L. of Calgary, CA via Hometheaterforum . com)
Mahatma Gandhi, walked barefoot most of the time, which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him...a super-callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

[TLinden16]

Hmm. Maybe we should create a new reality show--Parents and Kids Behaving Badly ;)

It seems in more and more families the kids are running the show these days. My parents would have never tolerated me running around, and screaming like a maniac to get my way in public the way I see some kids at Disney and other places. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a kid throw a tantrum after being told "You can't have that" only to get that item five minutes later--kids are smart, they know how to play their adult.

When I was at Disney last December, there was a large group eating at the table next to us at Mama Melrose's--close to 20 people. Well, the adults sat there, and talked, and the four or five kids ranging in age from about 3 to 7 were running all around the table, and even ventured further away from the table. This was right near the kitchen, and every server had to walk by with their tray of food--I was just waiting for one of them to trip over one of these kids. Not once did any of the adults in that group try to get those kids to sit down and behave--the adults just sat there gabbing and eating.

My biggest annoyance is when parents force a crying kid screaming "I don't want to go on the <insert name of ride>" onto the ride. Parents go on and on "You're going to love it. I didn't spend all this money to come to DW to not go on rides, etc." Most of the time the kids go on the ride they hate it, and they screech the entire ride, ruining the ride for the others in the vehicle (had a kid screeching in my ear on the Spiderman ride at Universal last year).

I know it's inevitable that I'm going to see screaming crying kids at Disney World. As annoying as that can be at times, I have to say I get more enjoyment from watching a kid's reaction to a character waving at them at a parade, or singing along on It's A Small World, or just being awed by the attraction. When I do see a kid behaving, I just walk on by and can't help but grin because I know it isn't mine ;)

Karen

[diswedwish]

DH and I (23, 26) have decided that once we can visit Disney, see an angelic-looking child turn into a howling monster, look at each other and *still* say - we can handle that - then we'll be ready to have our own;) For now though, we go and enjoy the fact that after seeing a few (or many) screaming kiddies in the park we get to go back to our resort, shut the door and *poof* no more screaming:D

[pennyring]

TLinden16 said..

"When I was at Disney last December, there was a large group eating at the table next to us at Mama Melrose's--close to 20 people. Well, the adults sat there, and talked, and the four or five kids ranging in age from about 3 to 7 were running all around the table, and even ventured further away from the table. This was right near the kitchen, and every server had to walk by with their tray of food--I was just waiting for one of them to trip over one of these kids. Not once did any of the adults in that group try to get those kids to sit down and behave--the adults just sat there gabbing and eating."


Ahhh... I do believe we also dined with this family in February a couple of years ago!! We were having dinner at 1900 Park Faire in the Grand Floridian. The table next to us was about 12 adults and 6 kids. The kids started out by not sitting still in their chairs. They were up, they were running all over, they were under the table, they were standing on their chairs, they were screaming at the top of their lungs. I didn't think it could get much worse.. but by the end of the meal, 4 of the 6 kids had stripped down to their diaper and/or panties and were running around the restaurant semi-nude. Not once did the adults look up, stop talking or even notice that their kids were playing tag half naked in the middle of a restaurant! Amazing.

~Amber

[PeterandWendy]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it.

A couple of years ago my DW and I took two of our nieces to WDW(we have no kids, and chances are slim their parents would ever afford it)
After eleven days, a few tantrums and a few days of homesickness, we can honestly say that they were probably the best mannered we've ever seen them. I'd like to give a bit of an opposite side of the story.

We went to Chef Mickeys one evening, A wonderful place and a truly magical evening. We told our nieces all trip that they were to act like ladies, not monkeys. well they proved to us that evening that they were ladies. While other kids were running around trying to get Mickey and the gangs' attention, the girls sat at the table eating their dinner and waited for the characters to visit them. We watched so many kids get run over or ignored by the characters because they didn't listen to the instructions of the CM's, our youngest niece asked us" why don't they just sit down and wait like they're supposed to?" I'm telling you we were extremely proud of them that night. It made the trip so much more enjoyable. True they were not perfect angels, but I would not have traded the experience for anything.

Next year we are planning to bring their brother, of course I'm not sure if he isn't a monkey so it aught to be interesting.

BTW, I had an adult snoring next to me during Harry Potter. THE WHOLE MOVIE!!! And it was at IMAX so it's not like it was a quiet nook. I think I would rather of had a cell phone going off every two minutes than that. Wait. That was during another movie. Sigh, Where is Miss Manners when you need her.

[vhoffman]

I have a story that's the opposite of what I've read here. When my twins (a boy and girl) were three years old we were in Las Vegas on christmas Eve. We went to the Bellagio for dinner. Our kids were unusually well-behaved. However, they have never had the type of public meltdowns described here. I had several people come up to us and compliment us on our children's behavior. I especially remember the lady who said "your children are as beautiful as they are well-behaved". On the way out the restaurant manager gave each child a little sutffed bear and thanked them for being so good. That really made my night. However, it might have something to do with the fact that our kids were well-rested, dressed comfortably, and not over-hyped. As my mother used to say, if you expect the child to be considerate of you, you need to be considerate of the child! That includes not dragging a hungry, hot, tired, over-stimulated child all over Disney (or anywhere else) just because you want to get your ticket's worth. Know when to call it a day!

[KELLIE JONES]

my DH (30) and I (27) dont/ will never have any kiddies. we really like kids, dont get me wrong. ( we planned on having a couple but God had other plans )

but when they act like little butts we turn into cranky old people. :rolleyes: you know, the good ol' " when I was a kid.........."

we have a little inside joke that helps us keep what little sanity :crazy: we have intact. every time a child acts like the above posts etc. we look at eachother and say a number ( ex: 122, 987 ) well the number stands for each reason that we are better off not having kids. lolol

i also have about a million horror storys, but they are just about the same as everyone elses so i will spare you guys! lol

TTFN,
KELLIE

[MickeyMonstersMom]

It's interesting what children remember. We just returned from a quick trip to WDW, my children's second visit. The first time we went to celebrate DD's 8th birthday and DS was 4. While we were there this past trip, both kids recalled DS's previous meltdown at MK. He'd started the day in a mood that his wishes were the only ones that counted, and put up a fuss whenever they were thwarted. Before we'd even left for WDW, we'd discussed that anyone who did not behave would have to sit out the next ride, and sure enough, that day DS had a tantrum over wanting to ride HIS choice a third time, so I made him sit and watch his sister ride the teacups. The rest of the day went just fine after that. I was amused that both children not only remembered this last week but even commented that some other children could use a dose of that medicine!

Overall, most of the meltdowns we saw this week were obviously heat- and fatigue-inspired, but there were a couple that really made me upset. Just to get this out of my system:

A woman brought a terrified 3-year-old into Muppet Vision - the child was afraid of the darkness and the way people looked in the glasses, and cried through the entire show. The mother kept telling her that it would be fine if she'd just watch the show, but the little girl was scared of the glasses and of course the film looks blurry and weird without them, so she alternated hiding her head on her mother's shoulder and asking to leave, crying throughout. Her father had already left about 5 minutes into the show with her younger sister, so half the family was already outside waiting for the show to end. It made no sense that the mother insisted on staying. Poor kid.

At Ghirardelli's, a 2- or 3-year old boy just kept pounding on his mother. He didn't want to sit at that particular table, he changed his mind on the ice cream he'd asked for and wanted something else, he wanted to leave, he wanted to stay - and with every "want" or complaint, he'd punch his mother. At one point he slugged her in the chin! At no time did either parent try to stop him, either physically or even saying no. My mother (who is one of the strictest parents I've ever known) finally asked us to hurry and leave because she was so distressed over it. As a Middle School Teacher, I see that type of child when they hit adolesence, and it's sad all around.

[ChisJo]

we have a little inside joke that helps us keep what little sanity we have intact. every time a child acts like the above posts etc. we look at eachother and say a number ( ex: 122, 987 ) well the number stands for each reason that we are better off not having kids. lolol

OMG! My best friend and me do this all the time! She actually counts in order though, and she is seriously at something like 250. I just had to laugh when I saw that because I thought we were the only ones who did this! Thanks for the laugh!
Jo

[jobanana]

I have a 4 year old D and I can't stand when kids scream. That's a huge no~no w/ me. The only time on our 6 days @ Disney this past Easter she was upset is at MGM. We left. Now I love this park and it was my friends first time there. But we went back to the hotel. Not because she was being punished but because she needed some down time. These parents want their children to act in ways they don't even act in. What about respect for others? I have relatives like this. They'll just continue on eating while the kids run around and scream. I paid to be there and so did EVERYONE else. My D is not a perfect child. But she is pretty good. But when situations arise where I feel she's bothering others I will remove us from it. I also talk to her about the whys of things. I ask her if she's like others to behave that way and she'll say no. She may not always understand. But I try my best to be considerate .

[Deep-Thots]

Just this past June, DH and I (who are newly-married, 37, and childless) were on our honeymoon at WDW. One night, we had dinner at the Brown Derby at MGM (as part of the Fantasmic package -- excellent thing to do, btw). We were seated in one of theh smaller booths at the back of the restaurant, and across from us was a large booth comprised of four 5-7 year-olds. The parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents (not quite sure who was who) were seated in a booth next to the kids.

Throughout our dinner, the kids screamed, cut up the free crayons with their knives, pulled the tablecloth off the table, poured salt and pepper into each other's drinks, threw their napkins around, and initiated fights by trying to eat each other's desserts. Not once during the entire time did any adult from the next table reprimand any of the children. they just sat there and finished off the remains of their wine.

Being that this group appeared to be in the end stages of their meal, DH and I figured we could tough out the commotion. After about 25 minutes and with no end in sight, however, we asked our waitress was the scoop was. She explained that the group had come in requesting two tables and subsequently had been informed that they needed, for safety reasons to have at least one adult sit with the, er, monsters. The adults, however, claiming that they needed "time away from the kids and time to themselves," ignored this request and sat the kids all by their lonesome, unsupervised, at a separate table. The waitress offered her fervent hope that they would soon leave (particularly since the restaurant was packed and she could use the tables back).

Unfortunately, however, it soon began to POUR. As a result of the rain, the adults decided to just hang out at the table another 45 minutes, until it all finally passed -- without ordering anything else from the menu. (Please note that the kids continued to scream, etc., during this entitre time.)

As this fun and friendly family prepared to leave, DH and I listened in horror as they discussed the fact that because a gratuity had already been added to their bill (since their party numbered greater than 8), they *did not have to add an additional tip to the bill*!!!

We just couldn't believe it. We felt so sorry for the waitress that we left a 30% tip for her on our not-inconsiderable bill.

IMO, those people demonstrated a remarkable lack of class, and should be subjected to some form of torture both lengthy and painful. I hope karma is real!!

[auds35]

Hi,
We go to the mouse house in two weeks.As a single mum to two children I know what it's like when your kids misbehave. Mine are 17 and 11 now and have been visiting Disney for the last five years.

I personally can't stand to hear my own kids having a tantrum so I can sympathise with others who have to listen to it. Mine fortunately don't give me much trouble but I remember seeing Tarzan Rocks last Summer. A mum bebind us had her toddler on her knee who proceeded to kick my seat throughout the performance. I looked back a couple of times without looking unpleasant but still she let them do it.

I suppose it boils down to acceptibility. What you as the parents sees as being o.k behaviour even if others don't.

We are all there to enjoy ourselves. It just requires consideration from all of us.

[cocowum]

Last week DD and I went to six flags. On our way over to the Superman ride we heard a little boy screaming. I mean screaming bloody murder, everyone was staring. He was laying on the concrete at his mothers feet. She was waiting on line to buy dippin' dots, completely ignoring him. It was a long line. DD and I just shook our heads and got on the ride. (we had a Qbot (fastpass) so there wasn't much of a wait.) When we got off the ride maybe ten minutes later, we could still hear the boy screaming. As we got closer we could see that the mother was just getting her ice cream and the little boy, maybe 3 yrs old was still on the ground but now not only was he screaming, he was kicking and punching his mothers legs and trying to bite her shoes. I have never seen a child act like this and I could tell everyone around was shocked too. The mother just ignored him, shaking him off like a dog and walked a few steps over to a bench a began eating her ice cream. The boy crawled across the filthy (six flags not disney) concrete toward her, red faced, still screaming. DD who is 9 just looks at me and says "oh my gosh!"

[helenk]

My two children are now 17 and 21, and I know that they are not or never were perfect, but I would never allow them to disrupt other people's meals.
My family and I were in WDW the end of June, we were having dinner at the Plaza Restaurant and there was a table behind us with a large family. They had a boy that was about 2 years old that screeched the whole meal, it was the highest pitched scream that I had ever heard, it would go right through you! Even my daughter who wants to teach young children could not believe that no one in this family did anything to quiet this child. No one picked him up to hold him, or anything. Everyone around this table was looking at the family giving them "dirty" looks but it did not faze them.
It honestly ruined our meal. The whole place was full and there were 6 of us, so we could not move our seats. We ate and got out of there.

[MinnieFan4ever]

Originally posted by Deep-Thots



As this fun and friendly family prepared to leave, DH and I listened in horror as they discussed the fact that because a gratuity had already been added to their bill (since their party numbered greater than 8), they *did not have to add an additional tip to the bill*!!!

We just couldn't believe it. We felt so sorry for the waitress that we left a 30% tip for her on our not-inconsiderable bill.

IMO, those people demonstrated a remarkable lack of class, and should be subjected to some form of torture both lengthy and painful. I hope karma is real!!


My husband and I have seen this happen all the time and we too always end up tipping a little bit more because we feel sorry for the waitstaff.

BTW- you really made me laugh with the "karma". We always say that too.

[Pkaroch]

I'm now 27 and still fo to DW with my parents, and we have a great time together. We always hit some character meals, because we love attention from large fuzzy creatures as much as the next person. We had breakfast at Chef Mickey's one morning, and were blessed with a table of raucous children and apparently deaf adults right next to us...I believe it was several familes, maybe a Magical Gatherings type thing. The children were allowed to run all over the area we were in, and the parents encouraged the children to interrupt the characters when they were at other tables, instea dof making the children sit and wait like they were supposed to. The icing came when Mickey stopped at our table before theirs, and one of the mothers said, in a pretty loud voice, 'Why does he even have to stop there? There's no children at that table, he could have just skipped it.' I almost choked. Seriously, is it such a stretch that adults would enjoy chracter dining too?

My parents have been taking me since I was 3, and whenever we see s screaming, tired, hot, hungry child, they shake their heads. They said it was always easier to lose a few hours letting me nap and putting me to bed early than to push me and have a Princess meltdown in the middle of the parks. Sadly a lot of parents forget that it isn't the money spent, it's the fun had that counts.

[underdesea]

Hi. After reading these stories, just had to add one to the mix. My DH and I went to the World on our honeymoon, the first of many such trips together. My mother, who had given us the trip as a gift, had arranged for us to have dinner in the Castle one evening. We had a nice table for two by the windows and were settling in for an enjoyable meal when a couple and their young son were seated next to us. He immediately began screeching, crying, whining and fussing, all of which were ignored by his parents. Next, he started loudly banging his silverware and dishes on the table, and then started throwing food, all while continuing the vocalizations. We finally gave them "the look" out of frustration, and the mother said (in that same loud voice others have mentioned in this thread), "People who don't like children shouldn't come to Disney World." I thought about explaining that it wasn't children we disliked, it was parents who had no sense of control or discipline, but figured she wasn't the type to understand "subtle" distinctions. Ever since then, though, we do make an effort to compliment parents with well-behaved children--figure they will appreciate the positive reinforcement!

[vhoffman]

To Underdesea,

You were well within your rights to have asked to be moved to another table. I hope you will do so in the future. You're a paying guest, too. Unfortunately, people without children are often put in the position you were--that you just don't understand children because you don't have any and therefore should be overjoyed to put up with other kids screaming, misbehaving, etc. As a mother of twins (boy and girl), it is possible to have well-behaved children in public places. I never allowed my kids to act up to the point of ruining another's meal, because by the time they would have ruined someone else's time they would have more than ruined my evening. Your story reminds me of an incident many years ago, before our childrern. We were on vacation and having breakfast in a restaurant, when a group was seated right next to us. They had a baby about a year old who proceeded to bang on her highchair with the silverware and scream at the top of her lungs. I wasn't feeling well and had a bad headache. I asked the waitress to move us to another section. The people at the other table gave me "hate looks", and said thing to the effect of, "Well, I guess she just doesn't like children or she'd have her own!" Geez! All I wanted was to eat my breakfast in peace. BTW, the waitress told the manager of the situation and he wrote off our bill and gave us a gift certificate for the next meal (despite my protests that it wasn't the restaurant's fault). We go back to that restaurant whenever we can. One should not be expected to just put up with someone else's screaming kid, whether they are parents or not.

[WDWguru]

Originally posted by underdesea
We finally gave them "the look" out of frustration, and the mother said (in that same loud voice others have mentioned in this thread), "People who don't like children shouldn't come to Disney World."

My response would have been "Parents who can't control their children shouldn't take them to nice restaurants." As a childfree couple DH and I have been told this very thing many times, and have had the opportunity to actually use that answer. It shuts them right up and usually gets affirming nods and thank-you's from surrounding guests. I've even gotten applause!

[jobanana]

I have a 4 year old D and I would be mortified if she behaved the way some of these kids do. I would remove her from the situation. So, what would these dips say to me? I have a child and I can not handle kids screaming and banging things on a table.

[Terk-1]

First, I have 3 nieces & 3 nephews, so I have had PLENTY of time and experience with little one's. The one thing we do not tolerate is screaming, either at home or out. If we are at WDW and the youngest one starts screaming or misbehaving, one of us pulls him out of the attraction, so as not to ruin it for everyone else. This does not happen often, luckly.

When I went solo last trip, I ran into several attractions, movies, shows, meals, etc., where parents just ignored the fact that their child's piercing screams and crying were annoying to everyone else. This is the part that makes me VERY angry. I go to WDW at least once a year and have been several times solo, since this is a good way of dining are more adult restaurants.

Let me give some good examples of the "cute" behavior of some little one's:

1. Dining at Spoodle's next to a table with Mom's and their 2 year olds. Mom's are just chatting away as the kids are throwing food at each other and on the floor, crawling around under tables picking up food on the floor and eating it, banging the booster seats on the chairs and floor and so on.

2. Waiting for Fantasmic to start while sitting a section away from a child that was screaching so loud, we could not hear the women's voice announcing the show. Took until a 1/3 of the way through Fantasmic before the mother pulled the kid out.

3. Dining at the California Grill, parents just chit chatting with each other, while their 2 kids are yelling and fighting with each other.

4. Waiting for Spectro parade to start at the Magic Kingdom (had been saving my seat for an hour), was sitting next to this very nice family, when another tried to shove their way in between us 5 minutes before the show started. Now there was barely enough room for one person, never mind 4. Before I had a chance to say something, the dad next to me told them that there was no room for them and that we had been waiting for over an hour. Parents were mad that we would not give up the seats for their kids and stormed off. The dad next to me said "oh well."

[LeftCoaster]

My parents never spanked me as a kid. ::waits for ensuing jokes:: but someway, somehow, my parents made us knew what was expected of us when we were out in public. I'm sure we may have had a meltdown or two but, certainly nothing like you see these days. My parents would not have tolerated this at all.
I think part of the mentality is "It's my money and my time so, I'm going to let my kid be a monster because I'm entitled to."
I really do enjoy kids too.... BUT, there is acceptable public behavior and if you don't teach kids that at an early age, then they will never learn.

[RickinNYC]

Man oh man, is this thread both frustrating but hilarious! I have to share my own experience.

My partner, best friend and I were eating at the German pavilian at Epcot. It was between shows so the stage and floor immediately in front were bare but for the mobs of kids who were running and shouting. We simply shrugged our shoulders and basically thought, "Well, the area is empty, no one can get hurt." But the screaming! Yeesh! But that still didn't bother us. "We're in WDW," we thought, "kids will be kids!"

As we ate, one little girl from the table immediately behind us was apparently getting riled up and excited by the others kids' commotion. She proceed to hop down from her chair and began circling her table repeatedly. Again, no harm, no foul. Patience is a virtue. Nunya biz. No big. And so we wait.

Then this precious little dynamo proceeded to do figure eights around her table and ours. A bit disconcerting but we still ignored her. Well, I guess being ignored is what sets her off because she started chanting nonsense and wailing like a banshee. And to add insult to injury, she took a shine to yours truly whereby she decided to slam her little body into the back of my seat, giggle uproariously and move on to circle about again.

After getting a 5 year old body slam one to many times, I felt now was the time to act so I carefully pushed my chair back a few inches so that the back of my chair was a scant inch from the back of the man's chair behind me. Problem solved? Good God! Someone release the hounds!

Little Precious did everything but spit up pea soup and spin her head! She immediately launched into slamming her body against not just my chair, but my body as well (still eating by the way) and screaming "MOVEMOVEMOVEMOVEMOVEIHATEYOUIHATEYOUIHATEYOU!!!"

And then the slapping began. Not me to her. Not her father or mother. She took the opportunity to start slapping my arm and shoulder while screaming. Nice, eh?

So I looked down at her and quietly said, "Where's your mommy or daddy? I want to talk to them."

The little dear's eyes bugged out of her extremely red face. Ever see the movie Scanners? People with psychic ability that can explode your head at the thought? Yeah, that's little peaches to a 't'. Anyway, she then raises her arm, whips it down to slap.... HER FATHER WHO WAS SITTING BEHIND ME!

"DADDYTHISMEANMANWON'TLETMEPLAYIHATEHIMIWANNAPLAYMA KEHIMLETMEPLAYDADDYDADDYDADDYDADDY!" You've all heard this at one time, I'm sure.

What does Daddy do? "My daughter is trying to play so move your chair buddy."

Ok, so back to the movie Scanners. Remember? Eyes bulge, psychic ability, someone's head explodes. Yeah, that's the one. Well, that was me this time.

So, taking a deep cleansing breath, I politely said, "I'm sorry but I'm trying to enjoy a nice dinner. Kids will be kids but this is a bit much, wouldn't you agree? I'd appreciate it if you could control you daughter. Thank you oh so much." Ok, so that's a big fat lie. I opened my mouth and before I could say a thing, I kid you not, Daddy shouts, "MOVE."

Ok, so Scanners... yeah, you get the picture.

Once again, I open my mouth to respond, this time with all the NYC attitude I could muster, "Excuse....?" When Joe, my partner, beat me to the punch with, "WHAT? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY? WE'RE TRYING TO EAT AND IF YOU COULD JUST LEARN TO BE A PARENT AND NOT A LAZY (bleep) SLOB THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM. WATCH YOUR DAUGHTER FOR A CHANGE." Did I mention that I've only lived in NYC for 15 years but he was born and raised in the area?

Daddy flustered and stammered, his wife tried to screech but for some reason couldn't say anything, darling sweetie kept slapping Daddy, Joe (my partner) stood there glaring, and I tried so hard not to giggle.

A MEGA cast member swooped out of no where and asked what the problem was when Daddy started accusing us of disturbing his family's dinner. But the MEGA cast member saw the light of Daddy's life screaming and slapping and body slamming and crying and stomping and wailing and gnashing and on and on... The little spitfire was still at it! So MEGA cast member politely asked Daddy to calm his beautiful daughter to which he refused.

So MEGA cast member asked Daddy and family to leave. He was very polite and said so with a smile and even offered to contact security if Daddy preferred. I love that MEGA cast member. I think I want to marry him.

So the family stormed off to very loud applause by virtually everyone within the vicinity. And sugar pie honey bunch was STILL body slamming and screaming to her heart's content.

All this and all I had a chance to say was, "Excuse.....?" Hmmph.

[underdesea]

RickinNYC, it's a good thing I read your post just before 5; most everyone had already left for the day, so no one heard me LOL alone in my office! Your story was hysterical; well, actually the story itself is kinda sad, as far as the whole lack-of-control-and-belligerence-by-parents-who-should-know-better thing, but the end response from the CM and surrounding "audience" members couldn't be better. The arrogance of people who believe that they and their family members are living in some rarified environment in which they can do, act and say anything they please never ceases to amaze me. If I had started running around tables at a restaurant when I was a kid, my parents would have promptly and firmly told me to sit down and calm down. Had I even tried to go down the road Princess of Evil traveled, I would have gotten the "We're getting on the plane and going home right now" speech (heck, this was in the days before airlines charged fees for ticket changes; I would have bought the line). They most certainly would have removed me not only from the restaurant, but from the park itself.

Someone should publish all of these posts as a sort of therapeutic guide for childfree Disney visitors--at least we all know we're not alone in these types of experiences! I have found a home in this Forum!:D

[disneyfreakk]

Originally posted by underdesea
We finally gave them "the look" out of frustration, and the mother said (in that same loud voice others have mentioned in this thread), "People who don't like children shouldn't come to Disney World."

WOW. i would have looked her right in the eye and said in the same loud voice " if people dont want to be parents, then they should NOT have children !"

i wonder what she would have said 2 that! :p

[ChisJo]

Rick, I have to say that your post was the best way to end my day! It made me laugh so hard! It is so sad how some children are raised. I remember my parents always saying "If you don't be quiet, I will take you to the van and give you something to cry about!" I never found out what that something was, but I was terrified none the less and never gave my parents a hard time in public, EVER!
If we were on vacation, and I tried acting up, it was, "we will get you on the next plane home and you can hear how much fun we had without you when we get home!"
One time, my siblings were actually fighting in the car, driving home from a holiday, and my parents actually stopped the car, made them get out, and forced them to walk. Of course, they went back for them, but like 1/2 hour later. And let me tell you, if we ever misbehaved in public, mother's threats were enough for us to behave.
Jo
P.S. - my parents never once hit me or spanked me.

[Davids-Coco]

Originally posted by Deep-Thots
they just sat there and finished off the remains of their wine.

This bothers me. Why do parents feel the need to drink with their children around? A glass, fine. Two, probably okay... but don't get intoxicated or even slightly empaired. Parenting should be a full, clear attention thing. That is bad parenting. And yes, obviously I have issues with Pleasure Island being so open now. But, it is just one of those things.

[Chesire]

Thank you for making my day! Another not-quite-ready for children couple here :D
I know this is a bit off topic, but do you have any thoughts about when is a good time to bring kids to WDW? I see so many young children and I just think "why?"
I was thinking 5 or 6 years old or so, but my husband was leaning towards 8 or 9!

[Davids-Coco]

Chesire, we have always talked about waiting until the not-yet-born children are 6 or 7 yrs old... I am not sure what happens when we have two children. But I am sure we will wait a while until both are older.

[Chesire]

Davids-Coco, sounds like we are in the same boat :D
I do want to experience WDW with our future children ... but I think my husband and I need to enjoy it more ourselves. I just hope I turn out to be one of the parents who doesn't put themselves first! I am still in shock of how oblivious parents can be with their children ... :eek:

[disneyfreakk]

heck, if you want your future kids to appriciate how awsome WDW is just do what my parents did.... wait until the offspring are old enough to have their own house/job and can take themselves !! :crazy: that way if they dont enjoy themselves or dont remember, its the kids fault.

[disneyfreakk]

Originally posted by Davids-Coco
This bothers me. Why do parents feel the need to drink with their children around? A glass, fine. Two, probably okay... but don't get intoxicated or even slightly empaired. Parenting should be a full, clear attention thing. That is bad parenting. And yes, obviously I have issues with Pleasure Island being so open now. But, it is just one of those things.


WOW, how many bottles of wine did these ppl have?? there are only 4 glasses in one bottle!?!>?!

[SuzieQMomof3]

Like PP auds35 stated, it all comes down to acceptability. I swear sometimes that my generation of parents (aged mid-30s) forgot somewhere along the way that they are the ones who are in charge. My husband and I get to have a lot of fun with our family, because our kids know that if their behavior is inappropriate, we will (and have) leave. After all, tomorrow is another day.

Here are my two stories:

We were in Liberty Tree Tavern with 4 very young children. Three of our own and my brother's son (so they could have a quiet dinner). Our oldest was 6 at the time, so I'm talking LITTLE kids. So here we are trying to keep the kids well-behaved and also making sure they have a good time, and let me tell you, this is WORK! Those parents who ignore their screaming children are lazy. Anyway, sitting next to us is a family consisting of a mom, dad, son, and daughter, who are about 6-8 years old. Old enough to know better, one would think. These kids were fighting, screaming, and whining. Throughout the whole meal people kept giving US dirty looks and sighs and head shakes. I felt like going to all the tables around us (we were sort of in a corner) and telling them, "it's not us!" Very frustrating.



My other story happened at Hoop-De-Doo Review. We were seated in the very back of the restaurant. In the middle of the room was a infant who fussed the entire time. This baby was no more than 4 months old. So whenever the baby really started to scream, the dad did the right thing and moved the baby away from the table. Only he stood in the back of the restaurant, right behind us so all that we could hear was this crying baby! Nothing is worse than bringing your kids somewhere and having to suffer through someone else's child throwing a fit. I finally turned full-around and stared at him. I guess he took the hint and went outside. I'm sure he wanted to see the show, but we did, too. I would usually not say anything to another parent, no matter how bad the behavior was, but that show costs us over $250, and I wanted to hear it as well as see it

Thanks for letting me vent.:hyper:

[Chicago526]

What I can't figure out is why the restaurants allow this behaivor. These are private establishments and they have the right to refuse service to anyone that misbehaves (or have children that do). This kind of thing must cost them money in the long run, from other patrons that leave early and don't order as much, demanding part or all of their bill be comped, and lower tips to the wait staff. Upsetting one family by making them leave must be more cost effective than makeing dozens of other tables unhappy, but yet they do nothing.

These parents that allow their kids to act like monsters KNOW that the restaurants, 9 times out of 10, won't say "boo" to them, so why waste their time and energy getting little princess to behave? If the establishments made more of an effort to get their patrons to tow the line, maybe we wouldn't see as much of this.

In a food court situation, I could care less, in fact I expect it. In sit-down restaurants within the parks, again, I have a high tolleration, hey-I'm in a theme park afterall! But in restaurants at the WDW resorts (or any regular place in my home town for that matter) you better believe that the restaurant manager is gonna hear from me if the kids at the table next to mine are acting like some of the examples in this thread. They can either move me, move the family making the disturbance, or give me my meal for free, because I'm not spending $150 plus at California Grill at my 9pm PS to hear little precious scream his head off.

I love kids, and I know they have meltdowns. I certainly don't go to WDW expecting not to see kids, or see kids that get upset and have tantrums. But I expect the parents to act like adults and remove the child if they can't get the kid to behave.

Okay, I'll hop down off the soap box now. :wave2:

[LisaZoe]

meaneausindisney - as the parent of a DD who is not yet 3, let me assure you that I do not at all resent you starting this thread (I noticed it because I came to this board thinking there might be some useful tips that would work for a single parent). As the majority of posters have indicated, a child's behavior is more a reflection of the parents than of the child - at least until the teenage years when no parent knows anything, anyway ;)

I've made a point in raising my DD to not let her have something just because she asks for it. While it might have made things easier at times to give in, I know that in the long run it would come back to haunt me. She is generally an easy going and happy child (you're more likely to hear her sing than cry) but she does have her meltdowns at times. Luckily, they are mostly at home. When they have happened while we are out in public - anywhere, and not just restaurants - I quietly let her know that it isn't acceptable behavior and have left on the few occasions when she didn't stop.

Another thing I've done is to expose my DD to restaurants from an early age. They may not be anything fancy but it has helped her learn that she is expected to sit in her seat and play quietly if she isn't eating (restaurant meals are not a time to force the "eat everything on your plate" issue). I bet most of the kids who act as indicated in this thread haven't been to a restaurant before or so rarely that they haven't picked up on the accepted behavior. These kids probably also don't have "table meals" when at home so don't know how to act when they can't watch TV, play video games, etc. during dinner.

As for the posters who've asked about a good age to take kids to a Disney park, I have to say that my DD and I went to DLR just before she turned 2 and we are going to WDW in Sept - a month before her 3rd birthday. I do know, though, that it will be a very different experience at this age than we'll have when we go again when she is older. I have a very loose timeline created for our trip and each day has a 3-4 hour "midday break" for naps, pools, etc. and bedtime will be around her usual time. I also won't force her to go on any ride if she finds the entry area too scary/intense. However, I know she will remember this trip, if only a little, because she remembers details of our DLR trip that I had forgotten - so I know she wasn't just repeating something I told her. She absolutely loved the "teacups" :teeth:

[RDS912]

I just have to put my 2 cents in here. My wife and I have 2 children ages 18mos and 5 years. Last year we went to WDW on our own. While I do have more tolerance for children than those of you without I must agree about parents being inconsiderate. There were several last year that I wanted to remove from an attraction myself, now dont get me wrong, I dont want to miss a show by having to take my child outside if they are throwing a temper tantrum, but aren't you missing the show anyway if you are fighting with your child? Why make everyone else suffer also? We are going again this Oct and I do believe you can do the ME stuff as well as make the trip all about your children. Its called balance. You also have to be flexible. I am planning this trip to death, but I promise my 18mo does not understand that we have a FP for MTM or a PS@such and such for a certain time. People need to learn to be good parents, that includes discipline, patients, and flexibility>:wave2:

[Eeyore's Queen]

I have to add my 2 cents here too. I have 3 kids, 7,5, and 4. They have all been to Disney several times starting at the age of 15 months. We always have a great time but when it's time to go back to the hotel, it's time to go. My third was (is) a tantrum thrower. I don't put up with it and neither does my husband. We have taken him out of restaurants, etc. many a time. It has subsided some since he knows he's not getting away with it. But I think part of it is his personality. (And he is only like this for us - nobody else.)

I don't understand parents today. They let their kids get away with murder. My in-laws kids are like the ones described earlier. Their grandparents don't even like to be around them. And they wonder why the grandparents take our kids for long weekends all of the time and not their's.

Here's another twist on this story. A few years ago I was at a restaurant and my oldest (then about 4-5) decided he wanted dessert first. I told him no and he decides to throw a tantrum, which by the way, is VERY UNLIKE HIM. He is the good kid. So I take him outside and let him throw his tantrum out there in the 30 degree weather with no jacket. I was telling him (in a slightly harsh tone) to cut it out or we are leaving etc. Some guy comes out with his son (he was leaving) and stops and says "Aren't you being a little hard on him?" I was astounded. He didn't see what my son had done. He didn't see me beating the kid, so how is it any of his business? I was so mad. I told him to mind his own business and worry about his own kid. It saddens me that in today's age you can't even discipline your child in public without getting a hairy eyeball or something said. I just don't put up with bad behavior, not from my kids or anyone elses. I have no problem telling my friends' kids to sit down and be quiet, etc. But, I have to say, that guy in the restaurant could have easily called the police, etc on me and what would I have done then? So, as much as I hate bad behavior, I am very cautious how I talk to my kids while in public now. But when we get back to the car, look out. And they KNOW that.

Had to vent. Sorry. But I completely understand where you single/childless people are coming from. Disney is Disney and there are kids there, but they don't have to be ill mannered.


Heidi

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by RDS912
While I do have more tolerance for children than those of you without I must agree about parents being inconsiderate. wave2:

I have to say that I take issue with your assertion that people who have children have more tolerance with kids than childless folks do.

I have seen plenty of parents (my sister is one of them) who have remarkably little patience/tolerance with kids, while others of us childless folk (like me) do things like work with kids who have AIDS or work with developmentally disabled kids who think nothing of socking you in the ear and/or eye when they don't get their way (thank goodness they're only preschoolers).

Compassion, patience, and tolerance with/for kids come in all sizes and forms -- some of them parent-shaped, and some of them not.

Just my $.02.

[Gretchen]

I just love this thread!
My 2 bits too:
DD 2 or 3 years old and I are in Walmart. She has been warned that if she starts to pitch a gimmie fit, we will leave. Well, she's 3 so of course she wants everything she sees, pitches a fit, and we leave. Well, halfway out of the store she really freaks out, screaming top of the lungs hissie. We go out to the car, I strap her in the car seat and stand out side waiting for her to finish and calm down. She does, and we go into the grocery store to get some food. She starts up again....so yes, out we go and I tell her we're going home now, and you can sit on your bed for being naughty. Well, you would've thought I ripped her arm off, she started REALLY freaking out. I had to leave the cart in the store and haul her out under my arm like a sack of groceries. You should've seen the looks I got with my screaming kicking spitting flipped out child! One woman caught my eye and I said, this is God getting me back for all the times I've said under my breath hey lady can't you shut that kid up! I thought the lady was going to pee her pants she was laughing so hard.

And today, with my ever charming little 2 year old son at the used book store, running through it tossing books in his wake. Or at the dollar store so my poor long suffering 7 year old could get a treat. Her brother (evil boy) was having a tantrum attack while we waited in line. And of course the lady in front of us paid by check and her 2 little sweet children just stood and looked at my devil spawn. I usually don't take the little beastie shopping, but sometimes I have no choice. As for his behavior at WDW, let's just say we will be waiting awhile before we head back.

So all of you childless WDW travelers, I apologize for my loud tantrum throwing son. I hate it when I have to put up with other people's unruly children, but hate it more when they are my own! I always remove him, that is when I can, when he's acting up. We keep to his schedule as much as we can. I wouldn't like it if I couldn't eat/sleep/play when I wanted either.

Have fun!
Gretchen

[SuzieQMomof3]

Gretchen,

You are proof that a good sense of humor can defuse almost any situation.

Susan

[disneyfreakk]

Gretchen, what can i say but HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA! and HAHA some more!

i cant speak for everyone else, but its not so much that childless people have no paitence for cranky kids its, more of the fact that some PARENTS dont disipline their kids!

[karemore]

We ate in a restaurant in Lake Placid that said on the menu something to the effect of :

"We welcome your well behaved children. We will pack up your meal at no extra charge if they become restless".

It was a clear message to parents that they would be escorted out if they didn't control their kids.

It's amazing how many parents let their kids run wild, and then are suprised when they get older and they have all kinds of issued with them.

Just reading this thread gave me a headache!! lol

Karen

[Tigger&Belle]

Gretchen, I have one of those devil-children, too. My guy is 4yo and has been removed from restaurants, stores, etc. Restaurants are the bigger problem since I don't want him, or any child, to ruin the experience for others. I figure that nobody is going to the grocery store for a good time so I tolerate more there than other places. That, and we do need groceries. :)

Today he had to have a 10 minute time-out in his room after we returned from the grocery store because he was yelling everything that he had to say to me, even though he wasn't always mad. ARG! He got a fair warning and then I followed through with what I'd told him.

I don't expect perfect behavior from my children or other's children, but children should be taught what respectable behavior is.

As to the Sounds Dangerous show at MGM, I had a problem there when my son was 1yo. I knew that he wouldn't have a problem with the dark so we went. He started making baby noises (not crying, etc, just noises, but you know how the sound carries in that show) and a lady in back of us started making all sorts of rude comments about him. The ironic thing is that didn't she realize that she could be heard by everyone, too, and she kept it up, not just complaining about Jake, but just talking. She was an example of a rude adult... I wanted to take Jake out, but it was pitch black and we weren't on an aisle, so I had a hard time doing so. Yes, they warned us about the darkness, so I should have known, but was thinking more about the scary factor the darkness, not how hard it would be to leave. Live and learn, which I do. :teeth:

Someone mentioned the age to bring children to WDW. We waited until our older children were 4, 7, and 10 yo, which was perfect. Problem is, we had a 4th child. We took a second trip when the kids were 1, 7, 10, and 13. I wouldn't have normally brought a 1yo, but with other older siblings it was the right thing to do. It also depends if you are talking about a once in a lifetime type trip or something that occurs on a somewhat regular basis. Not to mention the temperment of the child/children. All individual and personal decisions.

My husband and I hope to take a trip to WDW, sans children, and hopefully I won't be surrounded by too amny unruly children, but even if I am, my consolation is that they are not MY unrully children. ;)

T&B

[PhotobearSam]

I am so glad some of you actually say something or tell a manager...

Too many people just sit there and do nothing. Ask and you shall receive...If you don't say anything, nothing will be done about it. If more people spoke up, things would change.


I don't tolerate someone else ruining my day/night/meal etc.

I can put up with a little bit of bad behavior but I don't hesitate to tell people when I have had enough.

Thank goodness my DH is 6'2" and 400lbs...No one talks back to me after I say something like "Please calm your child...We are paying customers too" and they then see my DH and quickly do the right thing...

Gotta love the Big Hubby thing...:p

[jbthi]

I know all children can act up at times, but it really upsets me to see the parents ignore this.

Now may I tell a nice story about 2 of my GC?

We had our 4 yr GD and her mother at Kona restaurant. She is usually well behaved but this day she wouldn't sit in her chair. She wanted to climb on the table. Well, her grandfather picked her up and took her outside. When they returned a few minutes later she sat down and ate like a little lady. We never did find out what he did. When GD was talking to her father on the phone that night, he asked her how she had been. She said "well I was a little wild today but now I have settled down."

Another year our 2 1/2 year old GD had the most fun of anyone at DW. She was perfect. She did not whine, cry or beg once. She had the biggest grin imaginable on her face almost all the time. Everyone said we should wait until she was older to take her but I am so glad we took her then.

When I asked her what her favorite ride was she said the "school bus" at OKW. Her older brother and sister rode the school bus and I guess she figured she was as big as them now.

[Tigger&Belle]

I agree that the parents ignoring this behavior is the big problem. Of course if the real problem is noise, etc, runing a meal, I'd have to say that just as big of a problem is adults talking loudly on cell phones. I encounter that more often than noisy children. Again, that goes back to adults who aren't thinking about the other patrons in the restaurant.

We were out of town a couple weeks ago. My 4yo was especially awful, getting mad about everything. Not just in restaurants, but at the science museum we were at. My DH was at the end of his rope, but the funny/ironic/pathetic thing is that when my son would get mad, my husband would way in a louder voice, "no yelling". Hmmm, didn't really help the situation at hand. lol I took over with Jake and things went a little better. Turns out Jake was sick, which explained his bad mood. And my DH was sleep deprived, which explained his bad mood. :teeth:

T&B

[disneyfreakk]

so your family was just "sick and tired" of it all, huh??
LOLOLOL

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by disneyfreakk
so your family was just "sick and tired" of it all, huh??
LOLOLOL

You could say that!!! :teeth:

T&B

[pixie71]

okay here's my $.02 and some people may not like it.

First, in defense of parents - why is everything in the world blamed on the parents:mad: You can have the most patient, loving, nurturing parent and the child will still behave just like what he/she is a CHILD. When I see a wailing "out of control" kid I don't feel for the kid I feel for the parent!!! First, of all you have these non-parents and parents with perfect little "angels" staring at you and judging you on your parenting skills and they know nothing about you or the situation. So that automatically sends the parent in defense mode and causes them to take some kind of negative action toward the child instead of forgetting about those people who don't pay their bills and focus on the best way to correct the problem.

Second, we would be reading posts from people who are appalled if parents starting spanking their kids in public in response to their behavior - you can't win. Parenting experts tell us not to spank it sends the wrong messages so we try to talk and reason with kids and some kids just like all adults are not the same - they just can't be talked too or reasoned with. I am sorry that the originial poster had an awful experience but lay off the parents let's not forget that the kid's genes also have a lot to do with his/her behavior as well...and how many times have your parents said to you "I just don't know where you get that from" - just something to think about.

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by pixie71
okay here's my $.02 and some people may not like it.

First, in defense of parents - why is everything in the world blamed on the parents:mad: You can have the most patient, loving, nurturing parent and the child will still behave just like what he/she is a CHILD. When I see a wailing "out of control" kid I don't feel for the kid I feel for the parent!!! First, of all you have these non-parents and parents with perfect little "angels" staring at you and judging you on your parenting skills and they know nothing about you or the situation.

Well, you're right. I don't like your two cents, but that's mostly because they fail to speak to the issue at hand -- namely, parents who seem to refuse (indeed, even refuse to make any attempt) to discipline or to modify the behavior of their children.

If you'll re-read this thread carefully, you'll discover posts from parents whose kids seem to throw a tantrum for no known reason under the sun. Certainly, childless or child-enabled, we all know that tantrums do and will happen. And to a large extent, most of us are both willing and able to allow situations like these to drop by the wayside.

However, what vexes us is when the parents do not seem to care even one iota about their kids' misbehavior -- not even when it appallingly infringes in incredibly noticeable ways upon others, and others' enjoyment of, well, whatever it is they are trying to enjoy.

And, what's even worse (and a number of us have experienced this, as well) is when the parents have the audacity to blame the bystanders and other guests for their own children's bad behavior.

Situations similar to those I outlined here (and to most of those outlined by other posters, above) are simply unacceptable. Again, tantrums will happen. But that's not the core of what we've been talking about here.

[Davids-Coco]

However, what vexes us is when the parents do not seem to care even one iota about their kids' misbehavior -- not even when it appallingly infringes in incredibly noticeable ways upon others, and others' enjoyment of, well, whatever it is they are trying to enjoy.

And, what's even worse (and a number of us have experienced this, as well) is when the parents have the audacity to blame the bystanders and other guests for their own children's bad behavior.
[/B]

I have to agree with this. I think that all we have been saying - child or childless - is parents shouldn't ignore their children.

[pixie71]

Deep thots I have not encountered a situation where a parent has willfully allowed their child to wail uncontrollablely to the discomfort of those around them. Perhaps those parents are reading books or watching shows in which parenting experts tell us parents to "ignore the behavior and it will cease" I do not know. However, what I did not like as I read these responses were the amount of blame that was put on the parents.

And yes I read ALL the threads and choose to take my repsonse in a different direction - that is my right

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by pixie71
Deep thots I have not encountered a situation where a parent has willfully allowed their child to wail uncontrollablely to the discomfort of those around them.

Well, then your experience has been *very* unusual, in that plenty of people (see, for example, the posts of cocowum, helenk, pkaroch, underdesea, Terk-1, RickinNYC, etc.) have encountered just such a situation, and have written about it here.


However, what I did not like as I read these responses were the amount of blame that was put on the parents.

We were merely (based on our observations of the situations at hand) placing blame where blame appeared to be due.

And yes I read ALL the threads and choose to take my repsonse in a different direction - that is my right

You are absolutely correct. It is your prerogative to put your foot wherever you please, whenever you please.

Cheers.

[pixie71]

I wouldn't say it is very unusual...but it's not like I go around looking for kids for the next "kids gone wild" video either.

I have a different take on the situation and a different view and I'm sure there are others who agree. But frankly I enjoy disagreeing with you - sometimes everyone on the boards are so PC and that's boring. How's life in your part of Jersey.

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by pixie71
I wouldn't say it is very unusual...but it's not like I go around looking for kids for the next "kids gone wild" video either.

I have a different take on the situation and a different view and I'm sure there are others who agree. But frankly I enjoy disagreeing with you - sometimes everyone on the boards are so PC and that's boring. How's life in your part of Jersey.

Well, gosh, if you want politically incorrect, check out the recent thread re: Rumors about the Contemporary Resort. I think it's on the Resorts board; it's fun!! :D

And it's very wet here in northern NJ. But not nearly as wet as what my sister is about to experience in Fort Myers, FL! :(

Cheers!

[newtowdw1]

>>>>> I have not encountered a situation where a parent has willfully allowed their child to wail uncontrollablely to the discomfort of those around them. Perhaps those parents are reading books or watching shows in which parenting experts tell us parents to "ignore the behavior and it will cease" I do not know. However, what I did not like as I read these responses were the amount of blame that was put on the parents.<<<<

I think the issue is that many parents do not seem to TRY to do anything. I know that with my temper tantrum ds I had a horrible time. For a long time we could not go anywhere. Well, finally, when he was 2.5, I ended up in our SuperWalmart with him and DD, but no DH. DS started screaming. Normally I would put him in the car and send out DH later, or go later myself, there was no later and no DH to be had for three days! I had to check out--and the lines were abysmal. And I had to write a check. Just as I was about to join DS in his melt-down an angel of mercy appeared.
:) One of my HS boys (I teach AP biology) leapt up to the cart, snatched him up, and whisked him around in the air. He'd babysat DS once before, and after that, he was a favorite!

However, that was an extreme circumstance, and I have to say that I got more looks of sympathy than blame.
Next year at WDW (don't worry, we broke him!) we plan to do 3 or 4 hours in the morning, nap and swim, and MAYBE 3 or 4 hours in the evening. Kids don't get enough sleep. Noone is kind, well-behaved or polite when they are over-tired!

[NIK]

Originally posted by MickeyMonstersMom
It's interesting what children remember. We just returned from a quick trip to WDW, my children's second visit. The first time we went to celebrate DD's 8th birthday and DS was 4. While we were there this past trip, both kids recalled DS's previous meltdown at MK. He'd started the day in a mood that his wishes were the only ones that counted, and put up a fuss whenever they were thwarted. Before we'd even left for WDW, we'd discussed that anyone who did not behave would have to sit out the next ride, and sure enough, that day DS had a tantrum over wanting to ride HIS choice a third time, so I made him sit and watch his sister ride the teacups. The rest of the day went just fine after that. I was amused that both children not only remembered this last week but even commented that some other children could use a dose of that medicine!

Overall, most of the meltdowns we saw this week were obviously heat- and fatigue-inspired, but there were a couple that really made me upset. Just to get this out of my system:

A woman brought a terrified 3-year-old into Muppet Vision - the child was afraid of the darkness and the way people looked in the glasses, and cried through the entire show. The mother kept telling her that it would be fine if she'd just watch the show, but the little girl was scared of the glasses and of course the film looks blurry and weird without them, so she alternated hiding her head on her mother's shoulder and asking to leave, crying throughout. Her father had already left about 5 minutes into the show with her younger sister, so half the family was already outside waiting for the show to end. It made no sense that the mother insisted on staying. Poor kid.

At Ghirardelli's, a 2- or 3-year old boy just kept pounding on his mother. He didn't want to sit at that particular table, he changed his mind on the ice cream he'd asked for and wanted something else, he wanted to leave, he wanted to stay - and with every "want" or complaint, he'd punch his mother. At one point he slugged her in the chin! At no time did either parent try to stop him, either physically or even saying no. My mother (who is one of the strictest parents I've ever known) finally asked us to hurry and leave because she was so distressed over it. As a Middle School Teacher, I see that type of child when they hit adolesence, and it's sad all around.

A good thread this!

My mother always told me as a child 'I want, never gets' You soon learn!

Trouble is folk forget that their screaming child might be getting on their nerves but is also getting on the wick of anyoen within screaming distance.

It always amazes me how the smallest possible child manages to have the loudest possible voice. I now tell my nephews that the size of the mouth is in inverse ratio to the size of the brain! By the time they've thought about it, they've forgotten what they were yelling about

[Muppet]

Wow there are some stories there. We are a childless(by choice) couple who find some children quite overwhelming. But I agree its purley and raising issue, some parents don't seem to care.

I tell you my short story its quite funny. We were in the queue for MS and the family behind us had 2 boys. Over the course of 90 minutes they kicked and stood on my foot, only me not DH (then DH is 6ft2). I asked them not to and the father told me to quit my whinning, so I kicked him full blast in the shin and stood on his wifes foot. Feeling very liberated I waited for the aftermath. They kicked off big style, CMs came over I let them explain first and then I said my part. 5 others agreed with me, enough is enough. CMs asked them to leave the line.

Maybe not the right action but a action at least. The boys were stunned and the parents....................well wadda you think.

[KathAnn]

How's this for a spin on the screaming children thread?

My sister and I were at Disney in 2000 to celebrate my 40th Birthday. We were having a whale of a time, despite the inclement weather, until we sat down for a snack one afternoon at Pinocchio's. We were seated next to a family of 4 - Mum and Dad, and a girl of about 6 and boy of maybe 9. Mum and Dad were obviously not on the best of terms and they were sniping and sneering at each other. Next thing that happens is she screams blue murder at him over the table. It turns out that hubby has had an affair (and by now all Florida knows about it) and his dear wife is not entirely happy. Daughter is sitting weeping quietly into her Coke (and, believe me, my heart broke for those little lambs) and the boy, well, he showed us all how it should be done. While his mother drew breath and his father tried to find a way of looking less mortified - he leaned across the table and said "Mum - this is embarrassing. You did this at our school, and at Dad's work and now you're doing it here and you promised today was mine and Karen's day. Aren't you going to keep your promise?" A cast member rocketed over and asked if she could help - Dad's response was "Honey, thanks for the offer but we don't need marriage guidance; we need a peacekeeping force" and with that he turned round, bent down to his kids and told them (loudly, I think on purpose) that he was really really sorry for spoiling their day. The mother mumbled an apology too and they all left. I hope for the kids' sakes they sorted this out, but I just thought you'd like to hear another spin on the screaming horrors tales.

PS: For the record, neither my sister or I have kids - but I wouldn't have minded a couple like Karen and her brother. I've just remembered his name - Cody.

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by Muppet
Wow there are some stories there. We are a childless(by choice) couple who find some children quite overwhelming. But I agree its purley and raising issue, some parents don't seem to care.

I tell you my short story its quite funny. We were in the queue for MS and the family behind us had 2 boys. Over the course of 90 minutes they kicked and stood on my foot, only me not DH (then DH is 6ft2). I asked them not to and the father told me to quit my whinning, so I kicked him full blast in the shin and stood on his wifes foot. Feeling very liberated I waited for the aftermath. They kicked off big style, CMs came over I let them explain first and then I said my part. 5 others agreed with me, enough is enough. CMs asked them to leave the line.

Maybe not the right action but a action at least. The boys were stunned and the parents....................well wadda you think.

What do I think? That a grown woman could act more childish that a child! Amazing that it happened and even more amazing that you are repeating it with pride.

T&B

[DMDSTPRGIL]

Your are all right. It's the parents fault for allowing there kids to be out of control.Mostly because the partents want to get there moneys worth and they have the kids up late and run them almost into the ground during the day. Then when the kids get fussy,the parents don't want to deal with them and let them do as they please. I also asked to have our seats moved because a parent would not control her child. She also gave us a dirty disgusted look and stated " do you have a problem,this is Disney and there are tons of kids around you know". I told her I have no problems with kids, I do have a problem with a kid out of control because there parents don't know how to deal with them and keep them in line. I then stated that it's not a big deal for us,you see I can get up and walk away from your screaming kid. You have to live with him and a person like you deserves everything she gets. Good luck with the rest of your trip with your little one.She didn't like that at all.:bounce: :Pinkbounc :wave2:

[montblanc]

Glad to see so many have these experiences. I went to see Shrek II once and there were only about 12 people in the movie theatre. One family had brought a 2 year old who was obviously bored from the get-go. For the entire movie he continuously "escaped" from his parents, run up and down aisles and across them (right in front of us) while making all kinds of loud noises. I am extremely patient and sat through this performance (partially because my kid didn't seem to mind) but I don't think I will again without a complaint to the manager.

What I see most often is very young children brought to events that are clearly beyond their ability to understand and appreciate. They are expected to sit still and be quiet but that doesn't last long and such a racket is made that the focus of nearby people is on the noise makers, not the entertainment which they have paid to attend.

When someone in your party is disrupting the entertainment of others in a public venue you should leave (come back if things calm down). This is courtesy at a very basic level that isn't hard to understand. To simply say "well they are just children and there are many here" shows a total lack of understanding of social etiquette. Children raised in this environment will then come to believe they are entitled to behave as they please, forget about everyone else's enjoyment, it is all about ME....

[Davids-Coco]

That is exactly how I feel. My mom has continuously drilled into us that sucessful parenting is not selfish - you have to leave something even if you are enjoying yourself if the child is not behaving. I don't understand why parents can't understand that your focus in life changes when you have children. They are not pretty little dolls you get to take with you everywhere and will never make a sound.

Granted, I also choose not to hear screaming children unless we are near them. We had to ask to be moved on our anniversary dinner because they seated us in this back room atrium with all the young families and families with children... and they knew it was our anniversary. When a couple started crying and running around (and the atrium projected the sound) we asked. They gave us dirty looks, but we told them that this is supposed to be a wonderful and romantic dinner for our anniversary. That situation frustrated me.

I know that we will both be more tollerant at WDW, but to a point of course. Yes, there will be children there and probably more than most places. But if there is one screaming in V&A, I will definately be saying something.

[lenshanem]

I just love this thread!
My 2 bits too:
DD 2 or 3 years old and I are in Walmart. She has been warned that if she starts to pitch a gimmie fit, we will leave. Well, she's 3 so of course she wants everything she sees, pitches a fit, and we leave. Well, halfway out of the store she really freaks out, screaming top of the lungs hissie. We go out to the car, I strap her in the car seat and stand out side waiting for her to finish and calm down. She does, and we go into the grocery store to get some food. She starts up again....so yes, out we go and I tell her we're going home now, and you can sit on your bed for being naughty. Well, you would've thought I ripped her arm off, she started REALLY freaking out. I had to leave the cart in the store and haul her out under my arm like a sack of groceries. You should've seen the looks I got with my screaming kicking spitting flipped out child! One woman caught my eye and I said, this is God getting me back for all the times I've said under my breath hey lady can't you shut that kid up! I thought the lady was going to pee her pants she was laughing so hard.

And today, with my ever charming little 2 year old son at the used book store, running through it tossing books in his wake. Or at the dollar store so my poor long suffering 7 year old could get a treat. Her brother (evil boy) was having a tantrum attack while we waited in line. And of course the lady in front of us paid by check and her 2 little sweet children just stood and looked at my devil spawn. I usually don't take the little beastie shopping, but sometimes I have no choice. As for his behavior at WDW, let's just say we will be waiting awhile before we head back.

So all of you childless WDW travelers, I apologize for my loud tantrum throwing son. I hate it when I have to put up with other people's unruly children, but hate it more when they are my own! I always remove him, that is when I can, when he's acting up. We keep to his schedule as much as we can. I wouldn't like it if I couldn't eat/sleep/play when I wanted either.

Have fun!
Gretchen


OK, forgive me - I just skimmed thru this entire thread and I was feeling a tad of resentment until I came across Gretchen's post. You summed it up perfectly! These child free couples or those with "angels" just might get a taste of it one day themselves!

My 6 year old is an ANGEL. Then came her sister...
I can tell you she is ALOT of work. She is 3 and I feel like I've aged twenty years since she was born. Nothing has been easy with her. I raised her the same way I did my oldest and they couldn't be any more different.

It is really upsetting when people give me dirty looks when I'm having a hard time with her. We've basically become hermits, to go to the grocery store is torture. Gone are the days I could run in somewhere to pick up something fast. I have tried every method out there. She is as her ped puts it - strong-willed, high intensity, etc. , you get the picture? And I feel so bad for my oldest, she doesn't get to go out as much as she should. Thank goodness for the pool this summer!

And even if we do take them out (Like Gretchen I take her out to the car and wait until her tantrum wears out...) we still get dirty looks as we're trying to do something right!

Now when I see a parent having a difficult time with their child I have sympathy for them, not give them dirty looks or make rude comments. They are having a hard enough time as it is without adding the disapproving stares into the mix.

I came over to this board cause my hubby and I are taking a quick getaway from the kids! Thought I'd read up on some tips for an adults only trip, instead I see this. WDW has ALOT of kids, hello! Regardless, I so need the break. I've never been away from my youngest and I'm so burned out.

I can tell you I won't be having attitude with parents I see having a difficult time. I now understand. Not all kids are angels. True alot of it is parenting, but I can tell you from experience alot of it is born personality, too.

How do I know? I knew from the day she was born! She right off the bat tried to act like she was boss, no rocking, no sweet stuff. She was doing Houdini acts before she was even six months old!

Good to add my 2 cents!

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by lenshanem
OK, forgive me - I just skimmed thru this entire thread and I was feeling a tad of resentment until I came across Gretchen's post. You summed it up perfectly! These child free couples or those with "angels" just might get a taste of it one day themselves!

My 6 year old is an ANGEL. Then came her sister...
I can tell you she is ALOT of work. She is 3 and I feel like I've aged twenty years since she was born. Nothing has been easy with her. I raised her the same way I did my oldest and they couldn't be any more different.

It is really upsetting when people give me dirty looks when I'm having a hard time with her. We've basically become hermits, to go to the grocery store is torture. Gone are the days I could run in somewhere to pick up something fast. I have tried every method out there. She is as her ped puts it - strong-willed, high intensity, etc. , you get the picture? And I feel so bad for my oldest, she doesn't get to go out as much as she should. Thank goodness for the pool this summer!

And even if we do take them out (Like Gretchen I take her out to the car and wait until her tantrum wears out...) we still get dirty looks as we're trying to do something right!

Now when I see a parent having a difficult time with their child I have sympathy for them, not give them dirty looks or make rude comments. They are having a hard enough time as it is without adding the disapproving stares into the mix.

I came over to this board cause my hubby and I are taking a quick getaway from the kids! Thought I'd read up on some tips for an adults only trip, instead I see this. WDW has ALOT of kids, hello! Regardless, I so need the break. I've never been away from my youngest and I'm so burned out.

I can tell you I won't be having attitude with parents I see having a difficult time. I now understand. Not all kids are angels. True alot of it is parenting, but I can tell you from experience alot of it is born personality, too.

How do I know? I knew from the day she was born! She right off the bat tried to act like she was boss, no rocking, no sweet stuff. She was doing Houdini acts before she was even six months old!

Good to add my 2 cents!


Shan --

I think if you'd taken the time to read (rather than skim) this thread, you would have discovered that most of the people posting their stories here have difficulty *not* with the screaming kids and the consequently horrified parents who are pulling their hair out as a result of said kids' behaviors (people like you, in other words), but with the parents who *just don't seem to care about their children's misbehavior*. Our problem, in other words, is with people who seem to be less than responsible in their parenting, and whose abdication of parent-like behavior results in the inability of others to enjoy whatever it is they're trying to enjoy.

Read my original post. Read RickinNYC's post. To us, the truly horrible thing wasn't that the kids in those stories were chopping up crayons or pouring out salt on the table cloths or digging their knives into the table or whaling on Rick's arm. I mean, sure, those behaviors were bad. But the worse behaviors by far were exhibited by the parents who willfully chose to ignore their children's misbehaviors -- or even to blame those misbehaviors not on darling little junior or juniorette, but on us helpless victims!!

(I also didn't see in Gretchen's post where she suggested that one day, those of us who are childless or who have angelic progeny might one day "get ours"....)

Anyway, yes, WDW is full of kids. And some of those kids will misbehave. But that doesn't give parents -- despite the fact that they're on vacation -- the right to abdicate their parental responsibilties and in doing so, make the rest of us miserable.

[lenshanem]

Deep-Thots,
OK, I guess I'm tired and a little cranky. Sorry for the tense post.

I just know from personal experience how different children can be including siblings raised by the same parents, not all kids are perfect despite their parents skills.

It really stinks to have someone judge you when they haven't walked in your shoes.

Anyway, I got it off my chest and I should go to bed.

But, ya know what I saw once that really bothered me? A small child wandering around the shallow end of the pool at AKL w/o a parent in sight. That kind of stuff bothers me more than anything.

[Deep-Thots]

Originally posted by lenshanem
Deep-Thots,
OK, I guess I'm tired and a little cranky. Sorry for the tense post.

I just know from personal experience how different children can be including siblings raised by the same parents, not all kids are perfect despite their parents skills.

It really stinks to have someone judge you when they haven't walked in your shoes.

Anyway, I got it off my chest and I should go to bed.

But, ya know what I saw once that really bothered me? A small child wandering around the shallow end of the pool at AKL w/o a parent in sight. That kind of stuff bothers me more than anything.


Oh, I think anyone with siblings knows just how different siblings can be!! I, for example, was "the troublemaker." Sigh. My motto always was, "It's not what you do, it's what you *get caught doing* that counts...." ;)

And although I'm childless, I've spent my fair share of time having gotten evil looks from passersby when I've been designated by one of my sisters to remove her tantrum-ridden child from her presence (lest things get really ugly!). In fact, a couple of times, I've been sure that someone was going to call child protective services because I was simply holding this screaming, thrashing bundle of two year-old energy, preventing him/her from getting what he/she really wanted (you know -- a cookie, an ice pop, a toy, etc.)....

And about the kid wandering in the pool: I worked on a burn unit for 2 years. About 75% of our patients were kids, and about one-third of them suffered their burns at the abusive hands of their parents. Talk about things that *really* bother you....

Have a good night!

And enjoy your child-less trip to WDW!! Btw, since you mentioned in your earlier trip that you were looking for things to do, I highly recommend the Seas Aqua Tour at Epcot: Totally awesome!!

Kim

[lenshanem]

I was simply holding this screaming, thrashing bundle of two year-old energy, preventing him/her from getting what he/she really wanted (you know -- a cookie, an ice pop, a toy, etc.)....

Oh, if only it were mearly a cookie! Mine will throw a tantrum cause she doesn't like the way we buckled her into the car seat, the way her clothes feel, etc. :rolleyes: Anything and everything sets her off.

We have planned on going to Fulton's one night and then the Adventurers Club. Something we never do with the kids! Can't wait! :Pinkbounc

[KathAnn]

Speaking as someone who is childless - and happily so - I think I am going to promise here and now to be a lot more tolerant of screaming children in the future. I told an arguing parents story earlier but I've had my fair share of bruised ankles because kids are allowed to push their own buggies (strollers?) around; I've also had numerous t-shirts and pairs of shorts covered in cola, ice cream, ketchup and mayonnaise because kids are left unsupervised during mealtimes. I've been pushed away from my carefully chosen place to view the Parades as "he/she's only a kid and it IS for them after all". In all of this, I DON'T blame the children. Lack of supervision and discipline seems to be the problem; but I'll cheerfully accept that your little darling of whatever gender can go thermo-nuclear for no apparent reason. How do I know this? My darling niece has just turned 2! And she is, quite frankly, a horror. She's gone from being the apple of her parents' eyes to someone inhabited by an Alien. Her 3 favourite words are "no"; "no" and "no". It's a fight to get her out of bed in the morning; another to get food inside her; and another to bathe her; trying to dress her is like trying to stuff an octopus into a string bag. Don't get me started on going grocery shopping and, if I thought getting her OUT of bed in the morning was bad, it ain't nothing compared to trying to get her back IN it again!

So, I shall be at WDW in November and I solemly swear that I will be the picture of forebearance and tolerance for the entire 2 weeks that I am there. I will not "tut tut" under my breath, lose my temper or make any kind of sarcastic remark about "spoiled" children as I will remember at all times that "She Who Must Be Obeyed" will be waiting for her Aunties when we get back!

Happy holidays to all heading off soon - it will by my turn in 9 weeks!

[MinnieFan4ever]

Okay, sit down for this one. We just returned from The World. While we were there we went to the Heart Concert at House of Blues. Now they didn't come on stage until 9:30 or 9:40. If anybody has been to a concert at the HOB they know this is NO PLACE FOR A BABY!!! Well, we see a couple walking thru the crowd with an 8-10 month old wearing head phones sucking on his binky. I was floored. He then began to cry (I wonder why). They didn't leave, they stayed. Sometimes I just want to hit people over the head. Yeesh!

BTW, the concert was awesome. They are very good live!

[disneyfreakk]

minnie,

i think i would cry 2 if i was forced to go to a Heart concert:p

what is up with those parents?? we are going to Type O Negative in Nov, i would hate for people to bring a baby. thats just not fare to the kid! poor thing! i bet if HOB charged admission for everyone( including babys ) then they wouldnt have that problem!!

[MinnieFan4ever]

I couldn't agree more. If you have a pulse, you must pay!

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by lenshanem
I just know from personal experience how different children can be including siblings raised by the same parents, not all kids are perfect despite their parents skills.

It really stinks to have someone judge you when they haven't walked in your shoes.



Isn't that the truth! My 4yo has been my real eye opener. And the funny thing is that he was by far the easiest of my babies. Then he turned 13 months old and the alien moved into his body. Today was fun at the grocery store...

T&B

[lenshanem]

This is funny Tigger&Belle. I see you're also taking a trip without kids. ;)

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by lenshanem
This is funny Tigger&Belle. I see you're also taking a trip without kids. ;)

We are SO looking forward to going to WDW without children! They are our top priority most of the time (I'm a stay-at-home mom and my DH works at home) and they are the center of our life, HOWEVER, they will move out one day and we will be left with each other.

It will be wonderful to go where we want, when we want and not listen to the kids complain if it's not exactly what they want to do (and we have 4 children so it's not possible for everyone to be happy all the time...). Of course I do have my DH to deal with. :teeth:

T&B

[KathAnn]

My neighbour came back from a 2 week trip to WDW (stayed at Grand Floridian - loved it!) about a month ago. She and her hubby were without their 3 kids and having a great time. They decided one night to go to the cinema. So, they purchased tickets, popcorn, coke etc and took their seats. Just before the film started a family of 5 came and sat in the row behind them. The film was suitable for over 12s (I'm sorry I can't remember which one it was), but 2 were under 10 and the other was a small baby. My neighbour said they left after 30 minutes because the baby was crying and being passed from parent to parent, and the other 2 darlings were constantly kicking the back of their chairs or running up and down the aisles. Quite a few other folk left too. They complained at the box office and were given a refund - but nobody went in to tell these parents either to leave, or to stop their children misbehaving.

What I don't understand is - why take a baby to the cinema?? If you can't get a babysitter, then you stay home. My sister has a 2 year old and wouldn't dream of taking her as she's not big enough to sit in her own seat, won't sit still and can be extremely stroppy. She's seen most of the Disney films on DVD and has been fine - but I don't want to take her to the cinema just yet as I think she'd be a bit scared of so much darkness.

Now, I'm not advocating parents NEVER being able to have a night of, but please, can they use a tiny bit of common sense? Kids cry for any reason and to have one howling throughout a film is no fun - either for the child or the rest of the paying public. And, what possessed these selfish people to allow their other children to run riot? It really incenses me that people can act this way - so totally oblivious to their surroundings and the irritation it's causing to others.

Sorry, but a cinema is NO place for a tiny baby. The soundtrack is WAY too loud for their delicate hearing and, besides, don't they have a bedtime routine?

Now climbing down off my soapbox after this elongated moan!

[NIK]

I agree with your point KathAnn about parents having the occasional night off. however why insist on doing it at a theme park where thousands of people have paid out to come and enjoy the place too?

I am happily child-free [not childless since this is deliberate and by choice!] I have three nephews that I absolutely adore but there is no way they would come out with me even to the grocery store if they couldn't behave themselves. On the odd occasion when they have made an exhibition of themselves we have left promptly and they have quickly learned that naughtiness gets then nowhere.

I do agree that heat, tiredness and hunger can turn even a little angel into an infant from hell but why do some parents let their kids get into this state? It can't be enjoyable for anyone surely?

My mother is also old fashioned on child behaviour in public and like most mothers has perfected THE LOOK. I'm sure you know the one I mean. I am 40 years of age now but it still works, I'm here to tell you.

[KathAnn]

Nik

I wonder if we are related??! I'm 44 (next Friday) and my mother too has THE LOOK. Even now, at my age, if she thinks I've stepped over the mark she will say something, or shoot me THE LOOK. My brother and younger sister both smoke, but wouldn't dream of doing so in my parents' house as my mother is now a non-smoker. She doesn't mind if they go out in the garden - but they don't even dare contemplate lighting up indoors.

I'm happily childless - I can honestly admit to nil maternal feelings. I never wanted to be a Mum, and I'm honestly glad I'm not. While childlessness for me was an option, it took my sister 7 attempts at IVF before she conceived her daughter. I adore my niece, even though she's going through the terrible 2s, and I have 2 teenage nephews as well. They've turned out to be the most polite, well mannered boys you can imagine and my brother and sis-in-law have even been complimented by complete strangers on the way they've been raised. They never took the children to cinemas or concerts when they were tinies and would have been horrified if someone had suggested it. I can cheerfully take them anywhere (and could do so from an early age), safe in the knowledge that I wouldn't end up a frazzled, gibbering wreck by the time it came to get them home again. I'm not saying they NEVER misbehaved; but one warning was all it took to make them reconsider their actions.

I think my mother's lessons have been well learnt - and by the second generation too!

princess:
:thewave:

[NIK]

My family always claim I'm the founder member of the King Herod Appreciation Society, but I have no objection to kiddies at all - just horrible little ghastly ones!

Going somewhere like Disney you have to expect there will be any number of kids, that's what it's for after all. If they are just being exuberant and having a good time, that's great but if they are being little so-and-sos, that's when I get annoyed because they then tarnish all the young uns who are being good. Kids are Kids and even the nicest most well brought up child will throw a wobbler from time to time.

I think parents do need to take a firmer hold sometimes, especially when their little darlings are disturbing others. If I took my little dog somewhere and she started to misbehave I would, of course, expect to take her away. I wouldn't inflict her naughtiness on anyone else [not that she is naughty - she's a four legged angel!]. Why do some parent seem to think we should all be as tolerant of their monster children as they are?

[lenshanem]

While taking a baby to a movie is over the top, I think many of you need to lighten up.

Guess what? You were kids once, too! :eek:

And guess what again - WDW is a family vacation destination! Hard to believe, but TRUE! :wave2:

[KathAnn]

While taking a baby to a movie is over the top, I think many of you need to lighten up.

Guess what? You were kids once, too!

And guess what again - WDW is a family vacation destination! Hard to believe, but TRUE

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. Glad you agree! Cinema and small babies are NOT a good combination.

2. Yep, that's true. But reading through the all the posts on this thread tells me that WE were much better behaved. I am not looking at the past with my rosy glasses on - but I would not dared behave the way some children who've been written about here do. My mother would NOT have permitted it - end of story.

3. Yep, it's true. It's also a vacation resort for the single, short, tall, fat, thin, brunette, blond, British, American, childless and gay folks of this planet too. The point I think we're all trying to make is if a bit of common sense and discipline were enforced by the so-called ADULTS of the group, the thermo-nuclear tot from h*ll syndrome would be something we wouldn't have to witness very often. And, this discussion forum wouldn't need a sub section entitled "Screaming Children"!!

Now hopping off the soapbox.

8 weeks to go to PO-R!

princess:
:thewave:

[lenshanem]

Interesting.

So my three year old has a tantrum in a grocery store. I move the cart to the side and walk out quickly with her screaming. Along the way I get dirty looks from people like your mother and yourself adding to the stressful moment - looks like you should spank that child, this child needs discipline.

OK... So what if I did spank my child? Would you - the same person that was giving me looks like back in my day I would have been disciplined then shake your head in disgust? Would you call the authorities cause I was spanking my child?

This society really gives parents a very confusing idea as to how to discipline our kids.

Ya know what? I'm sorry if my three year old has a fit and you had to listen to her cry for a few minutes before I could walk out with her. I'm sorry that you or your mother might have to walk past my car as she finishes out her tantrum. I'm sorry you had such a strict mom that it has now caused you to not want to have kids of your own. And I'm sorry that my youngest is a little more strong willed than my oldest. I love them both the same and I'm now more tolerant of other moms going thru a stressful moment with their toddlers. I will not add to the moment by shaking my head and making faces.

If children irritate you, maybe you should find another vacation destination to visit, cause I can safely bet WDW will always have kids there!

[Mikelly1221]

As a parent, it has completely mortified me when someone would comment on my children's behavior-I can't imagine getting snotty with someone if my child was offending them. (Then again, I can't imagine letting my children do some of the things described here-WOW!!!) I have been on the receiving end of that occasionally and it's not fun. In that situation, I've found that action from me (taking the child out, stern warnings, etc.) coupled with a sincere apology really makes things better. I think what people want is parents that will ACT when the child misbehaves.

However, I have also been on the receiving end of comments that weren't necessary or appropriate and my polite but firm response is "Thank you-I'll handle it from here" with a look that says "Keep walking, nothing to see here".

[thaggie]

I must agree that a child throwing a tantrum is a real pain to be around and have to listen to. Believe me I know. I have twins almost 3. I enforce my rules and expect good manners. However, my girls are 2, not 10 or 15 or adults. They are generally well behaved, but they DO have their moments, which I do deal with. I'm sure during those moments we have annoyed some.

To all who do not have children, I too once felt and said "I would never allow my child to act like that". Well I have eaten those words on many occassions and I by NO means let my kids get away with anything. However to today, when I see a child being embrassing and obnoxious I no longer immediately blame the parent. Mostly I thank God that its not me at the moment and feel sorry for them because I know how it feels.

I do understand that that some parents do let their children act however and do not discpline. This makes life harder for us all. But this is life. And yes it is very annoying. You will encounter this no matter where you go. If you want a nice relaxing vacation without the possibly of unrulely children, go somewhere that children most likely won't be vacationing.

[jkovick]

I read this whole thread and the majority of the posters to it were not saying they hate children or that they didn't want them allowed at WDW. The majority of posters, with children and with out children, had issue with parents who do nothing when their child misbehaves and it disrupts everyone around them.

[underdesea]

jkovick, you are correct. We become upset when parents make no effort to control an unpleasant, out-of-control situation at the expense of all those around them, with and without children. My husband and I are happily child-free, but many of our neighbors, co-workers and family have children that we love being around. An occasional tantrum is understandable. We know this, as do the majority of childfree couples. But the reactions of some of the posters here are representative of what we encounter in the "real world." Some parents become very defensive if you so much as suggest that not every public behavior should be allowed to continue simply because it is coming from a child. We would never give obnoxious looks to a parent who was trying his or her best to get a situation under control, even if that attempt wasn't currently successful. But we do find it upsetting when parents simply ignore the behavior of an out-of-control child and expect everyone around them to endure the behavior at the expense of whatever we are all trying to experience. BTW, we would be equally upset if an adult was "acting out" and causing a disruption at a typically "adult" event. Of course, in that case, the person causing the problem would be the one solely responsible for his/her behavior. But I can't see someone saying, "Well, this is an event for adults, and if you don't like adults, don't go to the (fill in the event name here)."

[Deb & Bill]

Shan, you are getting a bit defensive about this thread. People aren't saying they hate kids, they are saying they hate have their vacation time ruined. If I saw you taking your child in the middle of a trantrum out of the store/restaurant/etc, I would look at you and think "Poor dear, how difficult for her." If I saw you ignoring your child with a tantrum and allowing her to disrupt everyone's dinner/movie/show/etc, I would think "I wish she would take care of her child and allow me to enjoy this event."

I would never expect you to spank your child. I don't spank mine and he has turned out great. I never was spanked as a child and I turned out okay, too. You can choose your own form of discipline. It's just that the people around you just might expect you to do something, so their evening isn't ruined just as yours would likely be. I'd ignore comments from others about offering to spank my child.

When you have kids, they are yours for life. Sometimes you think they are the best things in the world and wouldn't give them up for anything. But other times you like to sell them to the next bidder.

And WDW will always have kids visiting it, just like it will have families without kids, etc. We just have to respect everyone's right to an enjoyable vacation.

Regarding a previous comment: As for tousling a child's hair, I think a parent would be highly upset with me, a complete stranger, touching their child.

[Tigger&Belle]

As far as I'm concerned there is also a big difference between ignoring a tantrum in the grocery store vs a restaurant or theater. I have to buy groceries... A few days ago my 4yo was making a scene in the grocery store and I told him he wasn't behaving properly, that he was having time out when we got home, and that next time I wasn't going to bring him. He continues to yell, had time out when we got home and I went to the store yesterday without him. Most people don't go to the grocery store for quiet relaxation, they go for food.

I handle outbursts at restaurants totally different! My 4yo is taken out as soon as he starts to pitch a fit, which doesn't happen often. He did recently, though, and spent more time out of the restaurant than in it (turned out he was coming down with something, which explained his awful mood).

Like I've stated before, I have 4 children and have gone through my share of tantrums, etc. There is no excuse for a parent to ignore bad, noisy behavior of their kids and to subject other patrons to that behavior.

I'll have to say, though, that I'm shocked at the behavior of many adults in public. I'm so tired of them talking loudly to each other as if they are at home engaging in a noisy conversation and/or carrying on long, loud cell phone conversations, not putting their ringer on mute if they need the phone on (or turning the phone off when it doesn't really need to be on). Some of these people make my 4yo's antics look angelic.

Bottom line is that we should all have a problem with rude, loud behavior from everyone.

T&B

[lenshanem]

Yes, Deb I have gotten defensive on this thread. I am very sensitive to this topic.

I want people to understand not all kids are "angels", some require more work regardless of the parents' skills. While my youngest may be stressful, she also gives me more hugs and kisses than anyone else. She can throw the biggest tantrums, but then also gives the biggest hugs.

And contrary to what people believe, her tantrums are not based on wanting things such as toys and candy. Usually, it is over odd things like her clothes don't feel right, etc. This is our biggest problem and very hard to fix! It is amazing the things that set her off!

We don't go out too much, but I've had my fair share of cold food and take out boxes for sure! :p

[hookedondizney]

Well, I have to say something here. I have 2 children. They are 5 & 2. My 2 yo is a screamer and has been since he was 6mos old. If he gets angry he will just scream and scream. It does nothing to tell him to hush-he likes it and will continue. Therefore, I will ignore him.Sometimes I will grab his hand and make sure he is looking at me and tell him that is unacceptable behavior-and we will not act like this. But he is a very difficult child. It has nothing to do with my parenting either. My first child is very well behaved and gets compliments all the time about her manners. I am raising both of my children the same way-but has anyone thought about what makes each child different? I know he is only 2 and it will take time for him to understand. But, who has ever tried to reason with a 2 yo to stop screaming. P-L-E-A-S-E! How crazy is that? So, I am one of those parents you all are griping about. Yes, my child loves to have tantrums and in a certain situations I will leave. But on the other hand if I did do that I would never be able to leave the house. Then I would be on another thread talking about how my child has been locked up in the house because he is a screamer and has emotional problems because of it. So, yes I have my work cut out for me. Because he will grow up and who knows he may grow out of it. But, for right now I won't run away for the sake of everyone else if he gives out a few screams-get over it! That is just what kids do.......I have had so many ugly looks from people and ya know what-leave if you don't like it......I can't leave so therefore I have to deal with it because I am the parent. So, anyone want to flame me? Oh, and you know what is usually the only thing that can get him to listen when he is screaming-I tell him we are going to see MICKEY. He goes crazy for him in every way. If he sees any picture or commercial for him he of course SCREAMS Mickey!!!!! You gotta love that! :)
Hookedondizney:earseek:

[Tigger&Belle]

hookedondizney, you can one up me--my screamer didn't start until he was 13 months old JUST before his first WDW trip. He could have waited a month! :teeth:

Mine is now 4 1/2 yo and can still pitch a fit. My other 3 were nothing like this, even my first born who was a handful (and still is at 16yo). It's not parenting, that is for sure, but instead very different personalities.

As to taking them out, like I said, it really depends on where it's at. I'm not so concerned about ruining someones shopping trip, but I'm not going to let him stay in a restaurant screaming. I'm not saying that one scream lands them outside, but really loosing control sure does.

T&B

[KathAnn]

I inadvertently seemed to have caused offence to people here, and for that I am truly sorry. I've read through all the postings since I made mine, and the vast majority of writers here seem to be folks who've had days or events spoiled by one or two alleged adults who seem to think that vacation time means vacation from work AND from the responsibility of supervising their children. Most folk with children who've written have freely admitted their children are not angelic - and I can't ever claim to have been either. I am one of the minority of women who actively DON'T want children and never wanted to have them. Nephews and nieces are family - but they're not mine, so naturally I have a different perspective on children than most of the commenters here.

My mother does not make comments about the way other people rear their children. It's something that's as personal as a choice of partner, car, house or job. She'd no more do that than fly to the moon. Indeed, she's the one who gets on at me when some child starts throwing a fit in the supermarket because they didn't get the toy/book/game/sweets they wanted, and I start grinding my teeth. I think she's one of the most patient and caring women on this planet - and have thought so for years.

I've had meals at EPCOT ruined because some PARENT has let their dear offspring run around tables holding a beaker of cola. And, yes, I've got soaked because darling little angel tripped and doused me. I've ended up throwing out a pair of pure silk shorts and matching tshirt because someone at MK was concentrating more on feeding HIS face than watching what HIS son was doing. Result: olive green silk covered in ice cream and an unscheduled return to the hotel room to wash and change. I've also been forcibly bundled away from a chosen spot to view parades when some Neanderthal decided that was just the spot for HIS kids to see the show. When I tried to stand my ground, one of his kids kicked me. I ended up with bruised shins and, after calling a CM, he got shifted. He walked off with said children mouthing the words "f*c*ing b**ch" at me.

Most of the parents posting here are well aware that sometimes their child goes into meltdown mode. I understand and appreciate it. It can be embarrassing, frustrating and exhausting on you when they do. But the point I'm trying to make is I have no problem with little Johnny going ape in the supermarket/chemist/shopping centre. What I DO have a problem with is the adults who do nothing about it.

I'm sorry this has turned into such a long post - but I too feel strongly about having my "once every 2 years" holiday spoiled by a tiny minority of selfish parents who seem to think that vacation for them means a break from work and not having to bother about WHAT their children get up to.

[Tigger&Belle]

KathAnn, *Again* , parents should remove screaming children from restaurants, shows, etc because they are otherwise ruining the experience for paying guests.

I don't have sympathy if your grocery shopping trip is ruined because of a screaming child that the parents are not removing. The last time I checked everyone needs food, sundries, etc, and it's irritating to me to lump all the places together.

I think that is why many parents are getting defensive.


T&B

[KathAnn]

Hi T&B

I understand where you're coming from. I was trying to say I can understand a meltdown in a department store at any time; but what I can't understand is the adults who don't do something about it. Case in point happened a couple of hours ago - and it involved me, albeit indirectly. My sister took her 2 year old on a trip to a local shopping centre as she wanted to buy a new pair of jeans and a wedding gift. 2 year old threw a fit because we bypassed the toy department, and kept screaming, and howling. She was making so much noise you would have thought she was actually being beaten. However, sister was SO intent on getting HER stuff done - she completely ignored the hissing, spitting, screaming, struggling, hurricane and left ME to deal with it. Eventually I had enough and got hold of Little Miss Typhoon - who by now was sitting on the floor of the shoe department and throwing the display shoes about - and dumped her unceremoniously in her mother's arms. Sister's reaction? "How can I do MY SHOPPING with that din going on. Can't YOU keep her quiet??". We then left the shop - and were slow-handclapped out the front door. I was so mortified that I've already written a letter to the manager to apologise. What other people thought of Jessica's (sister) lack of action and Courteney's (niece) behaviour, I dread to think.

So, I'm sitting here now, after quite a few tears wondering what to do next. Another Sunday shopping trip has been ruined, I didn't get done what I wanted, and my sister's not speaking to me now.

Ah well, it's Monday tomorrow and all I've got to cope with is a kranky boss, temperamental computer system and a photocopier that eats master copies of documents - after today, it's a breeze!

princess:

[Tigger&Belle]

Sad that your neice had unrealistic expectations thrust upon her from her mom. It's great that you were there to help out, but for your sister to think that her own daughter was yours to deal with wasn't fair to you and most certainly not to her own daughter. It's not realistic for her mom to expect that she will be patient and shop for a long time without either doing something that she wants to do, taking a snack break, etc.

Two year olds (or 3yo's, as was the case with my oldest 2 children) do tend to be little alien creatures. ;) They tend to be hard to reason with and prone to tantrums at the drop of a hat. Hang in there with your neice. I don't know if I would go shopping with the two of them anytime soon, though, especially of it's normal that you get stuck watching her while her mom shops. Helping you sister out is great, but she should be doing her share of watching her daughter, too!

T&B

[Goofydiane]

I don't have any kids, but I love going to Disney World because of all the happiness you see there. It almost brings me to tears to be waiting to see my favorite character (GOOFY) and then see the look of extreme joy on that childs face when they go up and give a hug to the big guy. That adds to the fun of the trip.

What takes away from the fun are the parents who think that they are the only ones in the attraction and it doesn't matter that their child, who they believe is perfect, is screaming, or talking, or climbing all over everything. What can add to that is the parent that talks in a regular level voice explaining the whole show to the kid! While this has happened many times, it is only recently that I've started saying something during the show or at the end of the show to the parent to the tune of "It was so nice that you felt the need to interpret the show for all of us around you, can I go to the next attraction with you and have you do it all over again?" Usually met with dirty looks, but then I think - I'm never seeing these people again, so I don't care if I upset them.

I've used this on a few trips when the little angels spend the pre-show kicking the back of my chair. I turn nicely to the parent and comment that I'd be happy to change places with them so their child can kick them in the back throughout a show and I can enjoy it in peace. Usually gets the parent to change sits with the child. I've also used this on airplanes - make the kid a deal - you don't kick the back of my seat, and I won't recline my seat for the entire flight, or accidently drop my drink on your belongings which are being stored under the seat in front of me.

Tolerance only lasts with me for about 3 minutes before I say something. I'm not going to see these people again, so I don't really care what they think of me. Maybe I need to gain a bit of tolerance with screaming kids and I do - outside while walking through the parks. In a show - now it is time for them to be quiet.

Diane

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by Goofydiane
I've used this on a few trips when the little angels spend the pre-show kicking the back of my chair. I turn nicely to the parent and comment that I'd be happy to change places with them so their child can kick them in the back throughout a show and I can enjoy it in peace. Usually gets the parent to change sits with the child. I've also used this on airplanes - make the kid a deal - you don't kick the back of my seat, and I won't recline my seat for the entire flight, or accidently drop my drink on your belongings which are being stored under the seat in front of me.

Tolerance only lasts with me for about 3 minutes before I say something. I'm not going to see these people again, so I don't really care what they think of me. Maybe I need to gain a bit of tolerance with screaming kids and I do - outside while walking through the parks. In a show - now it is time for them to be quiet.

Diane

I was at a baseball game not long ago and I didn't realize that my son was bothering the man in front of us by pusing on his seat with his feet (he wasn't kicking the seat, by any stretch of the imagination). The man turned around and said a very nasty comment to me. I did my best to make sure that Jake didn't do that again, but I would have happily done the same if he had of been friendly and respectful of my son when asking the first time. If he had of asked nicely and my son had of continued to do it, then his nastiness would have been understandable, but that wasn't the case.

The funny thing is that he was the most irritating man and talked loudly with one of his friends the ENTIRE game. I know that it was a baseball game and chatting is ok, but he never shut up for longer than it take him to take a drink of his beer. And he thought my son was annoying. :teeth: Oh, and this man wasn't even sitting in his assigned seat--when the men got to their seats they noticed that the seats next to them didn't have anyone sitting in them so the men spread out. So he chose to sit in front of a child. LOL

I would hope that you start out friendly when you ask the child not to kick your seat. If you wait your "3 minutes of tolerance" in silence and then get nasty you might change your approach and say something after a minute BEFORE you're mad, and then after a while longer (2 minutes, let's say) if the child is still kicking your seat you can then be a bit sharper in what you say. You'll still be within your 3 minute tolerance window and might end up achieving the same goal without nasty looks to and from anyone. ::yes::

Personally, I do care what others think of me even if I'm not going to see them again. I sure don't want to be the one which makes anyones day less than magical (even when not at WDW) if I can avoid it, as long as I get the same respect back from them. I try to always start nice and only resort to witchy (as my daughter and I call it) when niceness doesn't cut it.

T&B

[lenshanem]

Good grief! Just when I thought I was over these threads...

It sounds like we have some pretty bad ADULTS, not kids.

I feel sorry for anyone who only has a tolerance level of three minutes. Must make life very hard.
I don't know how anyone can complain about rude behavior when they in return are doing the same?!?

I also wouldn't be writing a letter apologizing to the store manager, but would be writing a letter COMPLAINING regarding the clapping as you left the store! How is that any more mature than the sister not taking her daughter out of the store?!?

How can kids in today's society learn to be compassionate, understanding, tolerant and patient when adults behave this way?!? Three minutes and a dirty comment?!? I agree with T&B a little politeness in BOTH respects can go a long way...

EDIT TO ADD the comment I was referring to ...
Tolerance only lasts with me for about 3 minutes before I say something. I'm not going to see these people again, so I don't really care what they think of me.

[Goofydiane]

Originally posted by Goofydiane

I've used this on a few trips when the little angels spend the pre-show kicking the back of my chair. I turn nicely to the parent and comment that I'd be happy to change places with them so their child can kick them in the back throughout a show and I can enjoy it in peace.

Tolerance only lasts with me for about 3 minutes before I say something. I'm not going to see these people again, so I don't really care what they think of me. Maybe I need to gain a bit of tolerance with screaming kids and I do - outside while walking through the parks. In a show - now it is time for them to be quiet.

Diane

I notice that two posters commented to my last paragraph regarding how long my tolerance lasts, and neglected to note that I've already turned nicely to the parents and commented on the child's behavior. While I didn't say, I comment nicely, I do ask nicely about changing seats, or asking the child not to kick the back of a seat. So yes, if I've commented once and it still continues after a few more minutes - say 3 - I'm going to say something again. Once a show starts, you don't want to make comments that would disrupt the show for those around you, so I will comment again before the beginning of the show.

If they think I'm rude or insensitive, that is their choice, as it is mine to say something again to them. We have all paid the same general amount for our admission tickets and we should all be able to enjoy a show. I would also expect someone to turn around and mention to me if I'm hitting the back of their chair with my feet or knees - being tall and having a bad back, it is hard to sit in one position for the entire length of a show, especially in some of the areas in WDW where legroom is at a premium. My comments were directed at areas - i.e. shows, airplanes, etc - that I cannot leave as easily, not throughout the park in general. If there are children screaming outside in the parks, I can just walk the other way, or go sit elsewhere, I understand kids and meltdowns, I'm sure I challenged my parents with my fair share when I was growing up.

The unfortunate thing is that the number of well behaved children probably out counts the number of missbehaved, screaming children on any given day in any of the parks. We don't always notice all the well behaved children, sitting nicely in their strollers, or walking next to their parents, or standing nicely in line because they blend into the theme of the park. It is the child or children that make the most noise that we focus our attention on because they are distrupting or drawing our attention away from the enjoyable time we are all having.

I'm sure my comments regarding tolerance levels may continue to be a focus and the comments regarding turning nicely the first time may be ignored. If that's the case, that's the result for providing my opinion.

[Disney Princess 6]

After all - Disney isn't the place to go if you do not want to see or hear children. I am not a bad parent just because we go to Disney World and my 3yo child has a melt down. Just because you may view me dealing with a temper tantrum or working through a bad situation does not mean I am not a good parent - or anyone else for that matter.

ALL parents deal with these events at one time or another. And let me tell you - after 20 hours in the car to drive to Disney and all the high expectations that come with such a trip - there is bound to be some sort of trouble. Most parents try their best to handle it as well as they can.

Unless there is some sort of abuse going on, you can't judge a parent - or a child- by seeing them for 10 minutes in a theme park. And if you want a quiet, adult vacation, I'd go someplace other than Disney.

[lenshanem]

I turn nicely to the parent and comment that I'd be happy to change places with them so their child can kick them in the back

THEN...

I notice that two posters commented to my last paragraph regarding how long my tolerance lasts, and neglected to note that I've already turned nicely to the parents and commented on the child's behavior. While I didn't say, I comment nicely, I do ask nicely about changing seats

Somehow that first quote doesn't seem nice, seems more sarcastic to me... :confused3

I don't know why I keep drawing myself into this debate. I should be watching the Star Wars documentary on A&E. ::yes::
These threads are driving me :crazy: !!!

[dlrhine]

I have to comment and probably shouldn't.
I have been taking my girls ages 3 and 2 currently to WDW since the first one was 10.5 months old and I was pregnant with the second. My first little one was the perfect little content baby and my second one can be set off in a heart beat. Why do I go to WDW you ask? It is about the only place where neither of them act up. There is so much for them to see and do that they behave very well, for the most part. I do however go with the idea that this is their trip not mine. I have rode the TTA 10 times in a row just because that is what they want to do, I've also done the same with small world. I don't get to do the big rides such as SM, Splash MT, or BTMRR, but you know what that is ok as long as they enjoy what they are seeing. We have spent countless hours letting them play in Mickey's toon town play yard, and just seeing characters. The one thing I don't try and do with the ages of my girls is sit down shows such at the Hall of Presidents, American Adventure etc. I know this will not interest them and make them fussy. And I also stick to naps at 1:00 just like at home and pay big bucks (all expense paid for her to have her own room, her airfare, passes etc. also) to take my Mom so the girls can go to bed at 8:00 and we can go out and have an adult evening. I have now that the second DD is born walked out of a lot of places and skipped a lot of things...but going to WDW is about them and what I know makes them happy...I have many years to enjoy what I want, I had my kids to enjoy what they want. For this reason also I don't make PS reservations I never know when they might get hungery or tried and then I'm also not bothering someone who wants a nice quite sitdown dinner. We do 3 character breakfasts and that is it cause I know they will enjoy them...after that it is all counter service so I can leave easy if there is a problem with one of my girls.
I do sympathise with parents who have a difficult child I've been blessed by one but doing the thing I've mentioned has made many trips to WDW with her possible. WE leave in 4.5 day for her 3rd trip this year.

Diane

[cstraub]

Do you understand that every child is different? The way the child is "raised" is not the only factor in how they act in public. If you can except that a child maybe be gifted in music, art, science, math, dancing etc.. then why can't you also beleive that a child can be "gifted " in screaming, throwing, kicking, crying, etc...? There is not a whole lot you can do to change a child's genetic personality.

Don't get me wrong, I keep a close eye on how my children act and reprimand them accordingly. I would not dream of letting my children disrupt someone's meal or anthing else for that matter. However, I have not been "blessed" as of yet with a difficult child.

Parenting is not easy. Maybe instead of rude stares and obnoxious remarks we should all be helping each other. You would not beleive how much more effective a smile is than a frown!!!! Even though a baby or toddler's screams may not be my favorite thing, I try to smile and let the parents know that I understand. Kids will be kids!! Walt Disney World is for "families"!! It's the one place we can go and let our kids be kids!

This is kid territory!! You may say Walt Disney WOrld is for everyone to enjoy but so is the 5 star French restraunt up the street from me. I don't take my young children there. Maybe you shouldn't go to WDW if you don't like the screams of children.

[RickinNYC]

doublepost. Sorry folks!

[RickinNYC]

Originally posted by cstraub
Do you understand that every child is different? The way the child is "raised" is not the only factor in how they act in public. If you can except that a child maybe be gifted in music, art, science, math, dancing etc.. then why can't you also beleive that a child can be "gifted " in screaming, throwing, kicking, crying, etc...? There is not a whole lot you can do to change a child's genetic personality.

Don't get me wrong, I keep a close eye on how my children act and reprimand them accordingly. I would not dream of letting my children disrupt someone's meal or anthing else for that matter. However, I have not been "blessed" as of yet with a difficult child.

Parenting is not easy. Maybe instead of rude stares and obnoxious remarks we should all be helping each other. You would not beleive how much more effective a smile is than a frown!!!! Even though a baby or toddler's screams may not be my favorite thing, I try to smile and let the parents know that I understand. Kids will be kids!! Walt Disney World is for "families"!! It's the one place we can go and let our kids be kids!

This is kid territory!! You may say Walt Disney WOrld is for everyone to enjoy but so is the 5 star French restraunt up the street from me. I don't take my young children there. Maybe you shouldn't go to WDW if you don't like the screams of children.

Nope, as much as we'd love to be dad's, unfortunately my partner and I don't have kids. But we're pretty intelligent guys and we know that all children are different. And we know that some kids are just going to kick, scream, and shout and be all around snots. We know that's the way life is. And don't be so insulting to think that you have to be a parent in order to know this. That's not only ridiculous but demeaning as to those that don't have children. Trust me, you do NOT corne the market on parenthood just because you have a child.

This thread is NOT about unruly children. It is about the parents who, either out of ignorance, rudeness, insensitivity or selfishness, choose not to watch over their children when they don't behave. They would rather let their little "precious" run about, screaming at the top of their lungs, kick the back of an airplane seat, slap someone thigh in a restaurant, shove others out of the way, do just about anything, than what a parent SHOULD do, which is to do his/her best to curtail this behavior. YOU KNOW THAT AS WELL AS I DO BASED UPON YOUR PRETTY SNOTTY POST.

And yes, sweetheart, Walt Disney World is for children AS MUCH AS IT'S FOR ALL FAMILIES OF ALL KINDS. Don't even dare to think otherwise.

Is this post rude? Sure and I refuse to apologize for it. I found your post to be incredibly self serving, obnoxious and down right rude.

[Goofydiane]

Originally posted by RickinNYC

This thread is NOT about unruly children. It is about the parents who, either out of ignorance, rudeness, insensitivity or selfishness, choose not to watch over their children when they don't behave. They would rather let their little "precious" run about, screaming at the top of their lungs, kick the back of an airplane seat, slap someone thigh in a restaurant, shove others out of the way, do just about anything, than what a parent SHOULD do, which is to do his/her best to curtail this behavior. YOU KNOW THAT AS WELL AS I DO BASED UPON YOUR PRETTY SNOTTY POST.

And yes, sweetheart, Walt Disney World is for children AS MUCH AS IT'S FOR ALL FAMILIES OF ALL KINDS. Don't even dare to think otherwise.

Is this post rude? Sure and I refuse to apologize for it. I found your post to be incredibly self serving, obnoxious and down right rude.

Rick, very well stated comments.

[Tigger&Belle]

The funny thing is that most of us agree on this general point, in spite of the attitudes that I've read. I don't take this thread as a slam on children being children. Yes, they act up sometimes, come with different personalities from other children, including their own siblings (how my 4 children can have 4 polar extremes in attitudes amazes me--doesn't seem possible based on the definition of polar, but they sure do) and some can have melt-downs at the drop of a hat.

What most people are saying is that the parents need to remove screaming children from a situation when they are bothering other paying guests. No, a kick on the back of the seat doesn't deserve a snide remark and we should all be respectful of each other, but as parents we should do what we can to let others have a good experience in a restaurant or show.

Goofydiane, if you are first asking the parents or the child (depending on the age of the child) nicely and lightheartedly to stop kicking the back of the seat and they blow you off and continue to do so, they deserve your frustration totally. There is no excuse for that. I thought that you started with a snide comment, which is why I said what I did. Sounds like you are already speaking up nicely and only get rude later. I can't say I blame you and I would do the same!

What we should all have a problem with is self-centered, obnoxious behavior from anyone. Last June I was at my 5th grade son's school clap-out (the ceremony for the kids leaving elem school). It was in a large, crowded gym at his school. There were a couple of adults that kept talking (the young kids with them were fine, BTW) throughout the ceremony. I found that very rude and several times tried to get them to be quiet, either by turning to them and saying it or finally giving them looks that could kill (we all know that look). I wasn't close enough to say more and was surprised that those sitting closer didn't say anything because it must have been bothering them even more. That was obnoxious behavior and people should know better.

T&B

[justhat]

Okay, WDW isn't just for the 'well-behaved' child, but for the 'terrors' as well. To say that you understand children fully before you become a parent is impossible. I thought I understood kids better than any parent when I was childless since I had worked at day camps, elementary schools, preschools, and recently finished graduate school with a doctorate in child psychology. The minute my daughter was born, a little over 6 months ago, I realized how little I actually knew about kids.

There really aren't any 'well-behaved' children, and thinking there are shows one of the things you learn when you have a child. Those children you see sitting quietly in their strollers as their parents roll them along may just be the same ones you see later throwing a fit in the Biergarten because Mom said she couldn't get the stuffed giraffe in Der Teddybar. Different things set off different kids and sometimes as a parent you don't know what that's going to be. Usually when my daughter is going to sleep she likes to be held close to me on the bed, with lots of hugs and kisses, yet sometimes if I kiss her she starts to scream and pushes me away. Why does she do that, maybe she's more tired that night, maybe she was comfortable and I moved her, maybe she just didn't want to be bothered. Who knows why and since she's 6 months old she can't tell me, but since there's no way for me to know that beforehand, I can't prevent the screaming fit that comes after it. As a child psychologist (who's currently a SAHM), people will be coming to me for advice on these issues and there's not really any solution.

It's possible that the kids you see acting out would be worse if the parent tried yelling at them, removing them, etc. Sometimes they just need to work through their own feelings on their own time. If we constantly help them act the way they are 'supposed' to, they will never learn how to modulate their feelings and behavior on their own. I'm not saying that if a child is jumping up and down screaming and throwing things that he should remain in the restaurant until his fit is over, but just giving you some insight as to why this might be the case. Some parents feel that if they give attention to a tantrum then it will only get worse or that the child will do it more, so they feel that by ignoring their child's tantrum, it will end faster and happen less frequently. This may not be true for all parents, but I know that's how some feel based upon my professional experience. Even those who do attend to their child's tantrum may have times when they just ignore them as well. If it's the hundreth tantrum the child has had that day, maybe they need a break from the screaming so they ignore it. I'm sorry that you then have to listen to it, but it's bound to happen when you're surrounded by millions of kids. If a family like that will ruin your meal, then don't vacation at a resort where there are millions of kids cause inevitably, their will be families like that.

As to kids kicking airplane seats, unfortunately I don't see a way around this one. As much as you might tell a kid to stop kicking the seat in front of them, short of tying their legs down the whole flight there's not much you can do if they continue to kick the seat anyway. It's not like there's anywhere to take them to remove them from the situation. Odds are this is one time when ignoring it will make it go away faster than fighting with the child to stop. Often time if they know you don't want them to do it, they will keep doing it. I've flown 5 times with my now 6 month old (for a total of 16 actual flights) and she's been silent on every flight but one, but on the one where she cried a few times we got plenty of glares from people around us, specifically the woman in front of my daughter's seat who couldn't recline her own seat ebcause my daughter's carseat was in her way. She even told me to move the carseat so she could recline, as though my daughter's safety comes 2nd to her comfort. She also then told me to take her out of the carseat and hold her when she started to cry. Well ya know what, parents don't want to see their child cry a lot more than the outsider doesn't as when my daughter cries I really feel bad for her that she's unhappy. However, there was a big storm and a really turbulent landing, so I wanted her to stay in her carseat even though it meant she was crying. She was sleepy and tired of being in the plane (we were delayed taking off due to the storm, had to circle before we could land, etc.). Well the landing was so bad that the pilot aborted it and flew back in the air and we detoured to another airport to refuel and wait out the storm. If it was bad enough for the pilot to decide it was too dangerous, I want my daughter in her carseat, even if that means that you can't nap or recline your seat.

For parents who narrate the show, I think it's so rude to tell them at the end that you want to go on every attraction with them to hear their version of the story. Little kids often need help understanding what's going on in a show, and if the narration bothers you, why not ask the parent to speak a little softer, explaining that it's interfering with your enjoyment of the show. I'm sure they'd oblige. My 2.5yo niece was afraid to see FotLK in AK, but we knew she'd like it so my SIL spent a good portion of the show explaining to her what was happening and why and what would happen next. I don't think she was talking too loud as I couldn't hear everything she said and was on the other side of my niece, but it's possible that the person in front of her could have been annoyed. No one said anything so we don't know. But anyway, FotLK ended up being my niece's favorite attraction in WDW. She saw it twice more during the trip and now, 4 months later, she still does that clapping routine from the 'Lion' section that they teach you during the show. So you can't say that if kids need the show narrated that they're too young, cause she needed help with it the first time, but loves it. We had a little kid in our section who screamed so loud during the parts wher eyou had to sound like a lion that everytime she did my then 3 month old daughter starting crying. After this happened 3 times, my husband took her outside for the rest of the show since she obviously didn't like the screaming kid. Do I think she should have been quieter, yes since my family's experience was dampened, however I would never have been rude to her family as she is just a child who was enjoying the show.

Personally, screaming kids don't bother me, even before I had my daughter. I can continue with my meal, show, etc. without a problem, especially at WDW since I go there with the expectation of seeing kids everywhere, even 'bad' ones. Almost every kid in the world has a meltdown at some point, some more than others, so given all the kids you see at one time in WDW you're bound so see quite a few of them. You should vacation there with that in mind, and if you don't think that way and think all parents should parent their kids in only the ways you approve of then you should vacation at an adults-only resort.

[Tigger&Belle]

justhat, I agree with most of your points, but I'll have to say that I don't totally understand children and I have 4 of them, grew up surrounded by children, whether it be neighbors or neices/nephews, have done daycare for years, etc.

I really don't take most of the posters comments as being negative to children. Maybe some of the expectations of the behavior of children is a little off, but I've seen, heard, and read that from a lot of parents (in various places, not just on this board, much less this thread).

Sometimes actual parents are worse because they have a child and think they know it all because their child (or children) are so easy and well behaved. I thought that I had a lot figured out when I had three children, then I had Jake.... lol

My third child was one of those (almost) perfectly well behaved children, up until he ws a good 5-6yo. I remember the one temper tantrum he had in public. He was a few years old and I was so surprised and wondered if he was possibly getting sick, which turns out he was. That's how rare it was for him to act up. He is now almost 11yo and can be rather mouthy (like me :o ) at times, but is still the hardest working, driven kid that I know. If he were my only child I would sure think that I had this whole parenting thing figured out.

It's funny to me that I can remember Zachary's one and only real temper tantrum since Jake has more outbursts in a day (ok, a week) than Zachary has had in his lifetime. By outbursts, I don't always mean full-blown temper tantrum, but more a great display of anger that doesn't fit the situation or that can be handled in a calmer way.

Still, I don't allow Jake to ruin another diners experience, even though I might let him have his tantrum in the grocery store while I'm basically ignoring it.

You're right about it being tough on an airplane, especially when they are forward facing in airplane seats and the seat in front of them is therefore so close to them. I've taken the baby/toddler's shoes off to help with that, but if we're talking about a young child they don't understand what they're doing and their safety is more important that bugging another person. And also, their seat is supposed to go in the window seat, so there is no moving them.

Still, that's no reason for another person to be nasty to either the child or the parent. It doesn't help the situation for sure.

Screaming children (others, not my own) have never really bothered me. I'm always just glad that they're not my own. ;)

T&B

[justhat]

You're right about parents who have easy kids thinking they know everything about parenting, Tigger&Belle. Even my mom is guilty of that since she was blessed with great babies and easy kids (myself included). I, on the other hand, have quite the challenging, high-need daughter. She has changed my outlook on parenting in many ways. Everyone in WDW that saw her told me how perfect my baby is and I admit she was the perfect baby in WDW. She only cried once during 2 trips to WDW (at almost 3 months and almodt 4 months) and it was the time I mentioned at FotLK. At home, however, she's a different child. She cried EVERY time she was put down, even for a second. This included sleeping. So for 3 months she was held 24 hours a day, I even had to hold her while she slept! She's gotten much better, but she's in my arms as I type this. I remember a visit to my mom's for a week when she was 6 weeks old, when she cried everynight at 9:30pm, for no reason and despite anything you did, rocking, walking, swaddling, nursing, etc. My mom insisted it was something I was doing wrong, until she gave up after an hour of trying to get her to stop crying and said I never did anything like that. I can only hope that the challenging baby years will mean easier preschool years!

[Tigger&Belle]

Hmmm, challenging baby years mean easy toddler years? My nephew was a very high needs baby (colic big time) and was a difficult toddler and preschooler. He's now a young adult and is a wonderful young man, however those early years were not fun for my sister. That was before I had children, though, and now I can see that he probably really wasn't as difficult (and BRATTY) as I thought he was.

My experience with my own children has mixed results. My DD was rather high-strung as a baby. Being my firstborn I didn't know that it wouldn't kill her to cry for a few minutes while I did things like go to the bathroom. lol She is still, at 16yo, emotional and demanding. She's a good kid and doesn't get into real trouble, but just higher need.

My second was an easy going child un until he hit puberty. At almost 14yo he can be angry, but it seems to be age appropriate. Other times he's happy and easy going.

My third, the one who was such a perfectly well-behaved child with only one temper tantrum to his name was NOT an easy baby. He had reflux and asthma and obviously did not feel well as a baby. At about a year everything changed and he has been an all around nice kid to have around (not that he doesn't have his issues, they all do--he's the pickiest eater I've ever seen, etc).

Could be your daughter has something like this going on that she can't tell you about.

Now my most difficult child (my 4yo) was hands-down the easiest baby that I've ever seen. He was friendly, laughed all the time, and was a roly-poly bundle of joy. Then he turned 13 months old. OMG, things changed. :eek: I am so hoping that he will turn into an easier child once he's a little older. I joke and say that it's Gods way of making sure that I was done having children. It worked!!!

Your daughter is a doll! Just hang in there now with her and things will eventually pay off. I bet that she is a very alert baby who always wants to be on the go.

T&B

[Tigger&Belle]

BTW, my daughter's name is Alyssa. Where in the Washington DC area do you live? We're in Montgomery County, MD.

T&B

[justhat]

Thanks Tigger&Belle! I love the name Alyssa, and was skeptical about using it for her middle name since it was the only name other than Madison that I liked that my husband agreed on. So if we have another girl she's going to be nameless. We live in West End/Foggy Bottom. 23rd and M Streets. I love the area-very centrally located, especially since my husband is in medical school at GW. My daughter was born there too and we actually walked to the hospital when I was in labor.

Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it) my daughter doesn't have reflux. She's the happiest baby in the world as long as she's being held. (aside from about 5 weeks to 10 weeks when she'd cry everynight at 9:30) And you're right, she has always been a very alert, active baby. In the hospital all the nurses kept telling me she was so alert, little did I know what that would mean once I got home! She was rolling over both ways by 3.5 months, sitting up and crawling backwards at 5 months, and pulling to stand right before she turned 6 months. Even as a newborn she didn't sleep much, mostly cause she'd wake up as soon as I put her down and stay up for awhile. I didn't mind holding her all the time since she's my only baby right now so I have a lot of time, it just meant nothing else got done. Now that she wants to be on the floor a lot, I can't let her unless I sit right next to her cause she can pull herself to stand up, but doesn't realize she needs to hold on or she'll fall! But she does play by herself much more now that she can move around, so I'm
hoping things continue to get easier, of course that is until she turns 2!

[lenshanem]

Just a warning justhat, my youngest who is my challenging one was also very early to do most of the physical type stuff. She was a miniature Houdini. Wriggled her way out of car seats, high chairs, pushing chairs up to the counter to crawl up on them, etc.

Good luck! It gets even tougher! :eek:

Like T&B I take this as a sign from God we shouldn't have more kids. We had planned on three until this little handful came along...

Luckily she is adventurous enough to do things with hubby since my oldest is very girly. This last trip to WDW my 3 year old was BARELY tall enough for some of those rides, but LOVED them. She rode Dinosaur twice and I think she would have rode it all day long if we let her. (Meanwhile my oldest at 6 was having a heart attack cause she walked thru the preshow to get to the child swap part...)

[justhat]

My husband and I are planning on 4 of them, but after a few months with Madison my mom asked me if I still want 4. I do, though if the next 2 are as needy we may stop at 3. Like I said, I loved holding my baby all day long, but I have nothing else to do right now but be a mommy. Once I get to #2 and 3, I'll have older kids to care for too so holding a needy baby all day simply won't be an option. With that said, I wouldn't change a thing about Madison's personality, I love her more than I ever thought I could love someone, but I do hope that the next few babies are a bit easier. (My mom tells me I should try to make her less 'fearful', since she thinks that's why Madison likes to be held, cause she's 'afraid she'll be abandoned' if I put her down. She seems pretty fearless to me with the activities she tries, but I have no plans on trying to change her personality either way.)

[KathAnn]

Morning folks!

I've been reading the replies from Tigger&Belle, Justhat etc and I wondered if anyone can help me. You probably saw my earlier post about the horrendous shopping trip - well, we've ALL calmed down a lot since then and although my sister's still angry about it, I've stood my ground, said what I wanted to (as nicely and delicately as I could) and have now let the subject drop.

My question is: Does anyone have ANY idea why Courteney should turn from a happy, bubbly cheerful little toddler into a hissing, spitting and now biting terror? She's almost been banned from her nursery as her behaviour gets so bad at times and I find it quite worrying. Do children grow out of this?

Jess is hoping to take Courtey to Disney in Paris for Easter 2005 - she'll not be 3 then (birthday is 4 July). Is this too young, or about right for a first experience?? Advice, help, encouragement and (useful!) criticism from ALL parents here is most welcome.

Thanks

[WDWguru]

::yes:: Great post, Rick!

As for the "nowhere else to go" on a plane thing... that may be true but it's still no excuse for not stopping the kicking. No you can't tie their legs down, but you can bring them activities or engage them in some way to distract them from the kicking. I've found with my nephews that it is usually a symptom of boredom and once distracted with something to do, they forget about the kicking and never go back to it.

[SuzieQMomof3]

Here's my .02 for those with kids who switch from angel to less-than-so in a heartbeat: take him/her to the doctor. If your child is acting up unreasonably for no clear reason, the answer is probably medical. Kids don't know how to tell you that something hurts or they are tired, they just get grumpy. Have the child's hearing tested at the very least and see about having her sleeping habits tested.

I have 4 kids and I know personalities are different, but children shouldn't be so unhappy for "no good reason."

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by KathAnn
My question is: Does anyone have ANY idea why Courteney should turn from a happy, bubbly cheerful little toddler into a hissing, spitting and now biting terror? She's almost been banned from her nursery as her behaviour gets so bad at times and I find it quite worrying. Do children grow out of this?

Jess is hoping to take Courtey to Disney in Paris for Easter 2005 - she'll not be 3 then (birthday is 4 July). Is this too young, or about right for a first experience?? Advice, help, encouragement and (useful!) criticism from ALL parents here is most welcome.

Thanks

There must be more going on with Courteney if she is having problems at her nursery school. Are there any changes that have gone on in her life recently? Is this a full-time type daycare? Could be too much time away from her mom if it is, especially if her mom doesn't even want to be bothered with her when they are together, as the shopping trip would lead me to believe.

Of course when the aliens invade a childs body at around 2 years old they do tend to act his way, but it seems like it might be more than that with her.

T&B

[KathAnn]

Thanks Tigger&Belle

Courtey's only ever gone to nursery part-time (9am till Noon for 3 days) and Jess is a helper there too. Liam (Dad) hasn't changed routine either. Courtey now bites, kicks or hits other children if she doesn't get her way and the nursery workers describe her as "sometimes uncontrollable". Paediatrician says she's fine for a 2 year old and to ignore the outbursts as she'll grow out of them. But she's also been a little sweetheart too and can be very loving and affectionate. Incidentally, she doesn't throw a tantrum or run around like mad when Grandad's around. She follows him around like a sweet puppy, hangs on his every word, and always wants to sit on his lap for her snacks and bedtime story. She even knows how to speed dial the phone to get him!

One thing that has changed is they moved to a new house. The "old" place was way too small for 2 adults and one growing toddler and they moved to their new house about 7 months ago.

Maybe I should take a pace or two back, calm down a lot, and remember that I DO love all of them.

[Tigger&Belle]

Could be just normal toddler behavior changes or she could be reacting to the move or something else that you aren't aware of. Moves are very stressful, even ones that adults look forward to. If she's not impossible with everyone then I would be less concerned.

Yes, remember that you do love all involved and try not to take her behavior too personally.

Maybe try to find times to spend with her on YOUR terms (ie, not watching her while her mom shops unless you stay home with her and maybe bring her to the playgound, make cookies with her, etc, while her mom goes shopping. In other words, try to forge a relationship with your niece doing something that the two of you will enjoy together. She's a little young for it to be anything too complicated, but take something that you like to do and scale it down so she can "help" you.

I used to cook with my nieces and nephews (I was in high school at the time) and my mother thought it was silly since I could do it faster myself, but the kids loved visiting me.

I've never had a biter, but I used to do daycare for one and it's a tough one. That obviously can't be tolerated for health reasons, but the "regular" tantrums are a different thing.

T&B

[KathAnn]

T&B

Have you been talking to MY Mum??! She says I should calm down a bit, that I take things too personally and Jess is plainly exhausted. 7 IVFs followed by an emergency C section would tire most women - but when you're a first-time, new Mum at aged 47 ...

I'll take and apply all advice I'm given. I actually WANT to be involved with Courtey - she's not wholly horrendous, I do have some good times with her. I never thought of baking with her, so I'll give it a try. I am the world's messiest cook anyway, so she'll be in good company. Thank heavens for a Steam Genie and a dishwasher!

Now, where do I send the choc chip cookies??!

Thanks.

[Tigger&Belle]

Oh, my, first time mom of a 2yo and she's 47. No wonder she's tired!

These times that you are spending with your niece will pay off in the long run. She will remember the special memories and you two can always stay close. One nice thing about doing things with kids is that you don't have to spend much money to have a great time and if I were you I would try to spend more time than money, if you know what I mean.

Things will get easier as she gets older and is better able to communicate what she is thinking.

I prefer oatmeal cookies--chocolate gives me migraines. ;)

T&B

[Deb & Bill]

My take on little Courteney is that she used to be an only child at home. Now she goes to daycare and has to share HER mom with other kids. She no longer has her mother's undivided attention like she used to. In order to get Mom's attention, she now resorts to this impossible to ignore behavior and it works.

Grandad has always given her the attention she wants and she knows that he likes her as a pleasant quiet little angel. He's her refuge in the storm. So when mom and dad are tired from working, she calls Grandad and he's shows her the adoration that she is missing.

I may be full of it, but that's how I interpret this situation.

[KathAnn]

T&B, Deb and Bill: Thanks. I'm really grateful for your advice. Actually Jess is 49 (50 on Xmas Day!) - Courtey was born when she was 47.

A lot of interesting and informative things have been said. And I think 98% of it is right. Courteney is and will be an only child; she's also the youngest grandchild and only girl too. A huge fuss is always made of her and quite frankly Dad worships the ground she walks on. Jess helps out at the nursery because she can't bear to be parted from Courtey. She'll not go back to her full-time career untill Courtey goes to school (Jess is a lawyer), but that's at least 2 years off. Dad's gently suggested Jess go back one day a week to start with (starting after Christmas) but Jess won't budge as Courtey "needs her Mum". Jess is exhausted, she's lost too much weight and is painfully thin (US dress size 4 instead of a normal 8-10) and we're worried sick about her.

I think the best I can do is (1) try to remain calm; (2) be a bit more supportive; and (3) be a LOT less aggressive with either of them.

I truly appreciate everyone who's replied to my requests for help. I'll certainly attempt to be a lot more patient with both of my 2 and other "outsiders" as well.

K x

[NIK]

It's great that we are all so understanding and caring and sharing.:angel: :angel:

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, it's not so easy to be tolerant when you have spent a fortune on a meal/trip out or whatever and it is being spoiled by some ghastly little so and so whose parents don't seem interested in the nuisance their child is being.

There are always occasions when tolerance is a terrific virtue - if a child has behavioural or other problems I would not for one minute suggest that they spend their childhood missing out - I have a nephew who has recenlty been diagnosed with 'dyspraxia' [bet I spelt that wrong:blush: ] However, I would expect the parent of that child to be super-alert to the nuisance factor and not sit back smiling benignly while the little beggar disturbs all and sundry.

It isn't the ones who have the serious issues that get on your wick, it's the bad parents who seem to think the world is responsible for raising their kids and they can happily abdicate all responsibilty.

I'll get off my soapbox now! :snooty: :snooty:

[Tigger&Belle]

NIK, that's pretty much what most people here have agreed to. I don't think that anyones meal should be ruined due to an out of control child. Of course our definition of "ruin" could be different. Does one scream ruin a meal? I don't think so, but continued disruptive behavior should be removed from the restaurant or movie.

Should we only apply these rules to children's behavior? I've had more meals disrupted by adults talking loudly either with each other or while talking on cell phones during a meal. Maybe they should remove themselves!

Again...we should be bothered by disruptive behavior that continues by anyone, especially if we are bothered by it from children.

T&B

[Deb & Bill]

We were just at a Chinese restaurant last night for dinner. Now it was early, so the place wasn't that full. But one couple had four small children and they allowed them to run up and down the aisles in the restaurant while they sat at their table talking. There was a fish tank in the restaurant that the kids were trying to see, but it would have been nice if one of the parents had taken the kids over there instead of letting them run around. At least they went early in the evening and not later on when the restaurant would have been full.

[lenshanem]

Those damn fish tanks...

Unfortunately I know about the allure.

[taswira]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle I've had more meals disrupted by adults talking loudly either with each other or while talking on cell phones during a meal. Maybe they should remove themselves!I second that! My mother and I were <I>trying</I> to enjoy our very nice sit-down meal at WDW while a woman with 3 kids sat at the next table and spent the <I>entire meal time</I> talking loudly on her cell phone with it in 2-way radio "walkie talkie" mode, so we had to hear <I>both</I> sides of their entire conversation. I wish they had <I>never</I> added that feature to cell phones! And it <I>is</I> true that many adults, just as children, seem to try to speak louder than everyone in the room when conversing with others at their table. What's up with that? :confused:

And yes - I put that in the same category with screaming children. One scream or a 10-second fuss is bearable, just as is someone have a <I>quiet</I> and very <I>brief</I> cell conversation (as long as I don't have to hear both sides of it!). But long, loud cell or radio conversations and repetitive disruptive behavior (of child or adult - LOL) is not something to which Guests trying to enjoy themselves (and paying dearly for it!) should be subjected.

[Tigger&Belle]

I also do not like the walkie-talkie feature on some cell phones! Like you pointed a out a person has to listen to both sides of the conversation and then there is the annoying static sounds! I can deal with that outside, but sure don't like it in a restaurant or store.

T&B

[NIK]

One way we have found of dealing with a Mobile Fone Fiend is to listen intently to their conversation - if they insist on bellowing their business in public.... - then loudly discuss what they have just said. It's amazing how quickly they turn down their volume

:hyper: :hyper: ::yes:: ::yes::

[Tigger&Belle]

I love it! Let's see if I can muster the courage to actually try it. Being subtle with people like that doesn't work--I've stared at people in disbelief, but they don't get it.

T&B

[SimbaCub]

I took some good friends of mine who have a special needs child to WDW a few years ago. I know this family well so I was prepared for the little things that go along with a special child. To be honest, I would take her and her mom again in a heart beat as I found her to behave in line with all 7 year olds. We are talking of going back in 2 years when she turns 12. I don't have a problem with kids--I have none--nor with their poor parents when it's their turn to have the upset child. My problem is with the small number of parents who don't feel they have to be parents. And I stress it's a small number. Looking at things through the eyes of a child--even if the little one is not mine--is a precious gift. . . Especially a special needs child who made a 3 word sentence will at WDW for only the 2nd time in her life!!

SimbaCub

[wintergreen]

I'd like to have one rant about screaming ADULTS. In the entry to the Haunted Mansion. My 7 yr-old DD is scared to death of this ride as a result of adults screaming ON PUROSE during the part where the entry goes dark for a second, and refuses to go on it again.

[jkovick]

HUH?

[vellamint]

I know exactly what they mean.....when you are in the stretch room. There are people who scream at the top of their lungs when the room goes dark...when you can look up and see you know who.

Thats a peeve of mine.......when I am standing right next to them and they blow out my ear drums because that is how loud they are and I can certainly see how a child would be afraid after that!!!!

[jkovick]

When I asked "huh?"I was questioning how being frightened in the HM related to this thread about parents who allow their children to be disruptive to other people.

[wintergreen]

I guess my point was that it is not only children that are sometimes loud and inconsiderate of other guests.

[Tigger&Belle]

My DH and I just returned last night from our adult trip (talk about fun!!!) and I witnessed my share of rude behavior from kids and adults. One VERY out of control child was (around 5yo) on the Halloween riverboat (my beef was with the adult who ignored his behavior for way too long and then barely did anything because she wanted to listen to the storytelling...

After reading this thead I really tried to pay attention to why kids were misbehaving and if my problem was with the child or the adults who didn't do anything to help or correct the situation. Well, the latter was almost always the case. Melt-downs happen with kids, but for adults to ignore disruptive kids is just plain rude.

Really, though, most of the people we encountered were wonderful and I have few complaints.

T&B

[Davids-Coco]

About the Haunted Mansion...

There were some children there at the same time as us. They were screaming and crying "I don't want to" and "I'm scared". It was so sad... the parents were saying "you'll like it" and "come on". I couldn't believe it. Needless to say, you could hear the children screaming though the entire ride and being very upset. I can't believe that the parents would do that to their kids.

[Tigger&Belle]

Parents have to know their children and know when to listen when a child says that they're scared. When I was at WDW in Feb there was a man trying to force his son on Rock N Roller Coaster. The boy was very upset and had no desire to ride. I don't think he got him on the ride, unless it was after I was already on it. The boy was even old enough to wait at the exit while his dad rode if the dad was just concerned about not missing out.

That same trip my 4yo didn't want to ride Splash Mt and told me so. I do know him, though, and knew that he would love it. I told him that it was a boat ride and he then rode it, not realizing where he was. He did love it and we rode it a couple more times. But I knew he would love it and wouldn't have forced him if I hadn't of felt certain of that. I also knew that if he didn't love it that he wasn't the type to be traumatized by the experience like some kids are. To force a child to go on something that is overly scary not only ruins the experience for the child, but it ruins the experience for everyone in hearing range. Not fun!

My son is counting the inches before he can ride RnR, not to mention the Universal coasters, so he really likes thrill rides.

T&B

[bavaria]

I just got back from a week with a very large group of friends ranging in age from 1 yo to 75 years, including 2 3yo's.

I don't have kids, but have always been a kid-magnet and am auntie to lots of little ones. Now, I have known this party for years, and knew what to expect.

It was Auntie Bavaria who took the kids outside when they got too noisy in the restaurants, who jumped off the boat in the loading area of Pirates etc when the kids panicked, fought the pre-Wishes crowd at 850pm to get one more ride on Pooh (must have been the 50th time that trip!), distracted the kids from the wonders of the Emporium when they got shopping fever, etc etc etc.

When I got home I realized that I didn't go on Space, Splash, anything at AK, or even Spaceship Earth this trip. I saw Wishes 6 times and Illuminations 0. I am ok with that, since I go often enough, and can always go again. There were days when we only went on half a dozen rides, since that was the pace of the group.

This trip was about the kids for me, and I know what has bothered me in the past while I am trying to enjoy dinner or a ride. Now, had these been my own kids full time, maybe I would not have been such an active 'distractor'.

No, I didn't get to do my favourite things this trip. I didn't get to have a quiet dinner with my friend to catch up. We had 3 kids under age four, plus Grandma who doesn't get around too quickly, and we tried to be realistic as to what could be done in one week with that type of group. For a lot of people, unfortunately, though, the trip to WDW is the 'trip of a lifetime' or the one time that they can afford to go, so they may try and squeeze in everything they can. I feel bad for those people, since I know that nobody can see all of WDW in even two weeks.

[foofanella]

I'm a mom of 2 and I live in NYC, so my kids get exposed to a lot at a young age. I would NEVER take them to the movies (but hey, I don't really let them stay up past 8) if it wasn't a kids' movie, but as far as tantrums go, I have one thing to say to all those people who think they know better...PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN"T THROW STONES...

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by foofanella
I'm a mom of 2 and I live in NYC, so my kids get exposed to a lot at a young age. I would NEVER take them to the movies (but hey, I don't really let them stay up past 8) if it wasn't a kids' movie, but as far as tantrums go, I have one thing to say to all those people who think they know better...PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN"T THROW STONES...

I totally agree. The boy that I witnessed on the Riverboat, however, was WAY over the top and had a parent that brought him did next to nothing. This little boy kicked a little girl (and tried to do it again) who was just sitting watching the storytelling, disrupted the storyteller, went up to a lady dressed as a pirate and insisted that she have her eye patch on her eye (physically putting it on her eye a couple times), etc.

My son is difficult, to put it mildly, but I remove him from a situation if he gets an attitude, etc.

Bavaria, you're welcome to come with me to WDW anytime! What a nice auntie you are--the kids and parents are lucky to have you.

T&B

[bavaria]

Oh, just to clarify, I was happy to do it for seven days, I would probably not want to do much more than that at one time!

Interesting though, that mum of one child says that her child is a terror, and when I met up with them uncle said that she had been whining the whole time.

Not a whine when I was there, but again it takes a lot of energy and time to keep kids amused and happy on such a long trip, and frankly I don't expect most parents can do that 24 hours a day.

This group was really lucky to have a high ratio of adults to kids, and most families have an equal or greater ratio of KIDS to adults. It must be tough for those families.

I have just learned that I shouldn't expect much adult time when travelling with the kids. Also my friends learn to take me along! (I have another trip to WDW coming up where I will be Auntie Bavaria to another 3 yo, since her mum doesn't look forward to taking her alone):tongue:

[Tigger&Belle]

In our family the kids outnumber us 2 to 1. That's what we get for having 4 kids! (in other words, what was I thinking??? ;) ).

I'll have to say, this trip to WDW sans children was the best trip that my DH has ever had and I guess the same for me. Normally we have to do so much compromising to make a trip work with 4 children of very different ages and my DH tends to not request things that will make him happy (on the easygoing side when it comes to what he would like to do). This trip was so centered around what he would like to do. I made sure that I went on Tower of Terror lots of times, which is what makes me happy, but I will be down there 2 more times before my AP expires, so I will have plenty of chances to see what I want to see.

And the best part was when there was a screaming child I could have empathy for the parents and understanding for the child, but I didn't have to deal with it! :teeth:

T&B

[lc1965]

My own recommendation for dealing w/ unruly kids is to talk to the parents if a CM refuses to get involved. "I'm sure you don't realize it, but...." But, I always start by asking a CM to get involved. I have also been known to throw an evil child or 2 The Death Glare -- and am here to tell you they will NEVER misbehave in public again. Although, I have to admit that my mother smacked the hand of a child who walked up to our table & took a roll from our bread basket. That child, also, will never do THAT again.

I always like to encourage good behavior by encouraging good parents. At Disneyland, I complimented a young couple on the behavior of their daughter. They looked stunned & said she had actually been acting out a bit. My mother & I were sure to say that THEY may see it, but from our vantage point, it was a pleasure to have them at the next table.

[catherines_mama]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle
Parents have to know their children and know when to listen when a child says that they're scared. When I was at WDW in Feb there was a man trying to force his son on Rock N Roller Coaster. The boy was very upset and had no desire to ride. I don't think he got him on the ride, unless it was after I was already on it. The boy was even old enough to wait at the exit while his dad rode if the dad was just concerned about not missing out.

That same trip my 4yo didn't want to ride Splash Mt and told me so. I do know him, though, and knew that he would love it. I told him that it was a boat ride and he then rode it, not realizing where he was. He did love it and we rode it a couple more times. But I knew he would love it and wouldn't have forced him if I hadn't of felt certain of that. I also knew that if he didn't love it that he wasn't the type to be traumatized by the experience like some kids are. To force a child to go on something that is overly scary not only ruins the experience for the child, but it ruins the experience for everyone in hearing range. Not fun!

My son is counting the inches before he can ride RnR, not to mention the Universal coasters, so he really likes thrill rides.

T&B

I very much agree with T&B (especially since we were at WDW together and JUST missed eachother) LOL

I KNOW my DD. I KNOW when she needs a nap and i KNOW when she is hungry. I think she is slightly hypoglycemic (spelling sorry) because a horrible attitude is turned completely around with 1/2 an apple. On our FEB trip we did daily breaks. We even would do one park in the AM , go rest and return just for the nighttime festivities.. (Fantasmic etc). Being said. After a HORRIBLE day at MGM I knew she needed her rest and called and canceled our 8:05 CRT. YES, I ate the $25 deposit because i knew she needed to sleep in. She did and we had a WONDERFUL day.

Not all parents are screaming children ignorers, and I love to be complimented on mine when she's being good. Its shocking to be complimented, but I've always worked in customer service and I know that more people complain about the bad then compliment the good any day! The night we did AK/MK in the morning, rested, then did MGM-Fantasmic at night was our best day of the trip (our last even). She was so good and so grown up all day (almost 3 at the time). At Fantasmic she sat so good and ate very nicely (we got food on the way to our seats and made it 'dinner'). There was an older couple behind us and I really would have LOVED to hear a "gosh . she's great" because she WAS! She and I left to go potty and she tripped up the steps.. they picked then to frown at me.. but oh well. I KNOW my kid is AWESOME!

Point (because gosh I'm rambling).. yes there are parents who let their kids act up.. but YES there are us who don't and we'd like a pat on the back now and again. THANKS!

[catherines_mama]

Originally posted by SuzieQMomof3
Here's my .02 for those with kids who switch from angel to less-than-so in a heartbeat: take him/her to the doctor. If your child is acting up unreasonably for no clear reason, the answer is probably medical. Kids don't know how to tell you that something hurts or they are tired, they just get grumpy. Have the child's hearing tested at the very least and see about having her sleeping habits tested.

I have 4 kids and I know personalities are different, but children shouldn't be so unhappy for "no good reason."

I fully agree. As you can see in my post.. my daughter does this. I have tried different things and and there and finally know whats wrong. Blood sugar! Plain and simple. Now she doesn't have a well check til April, so until then I'll track and diary to see if the Dr agrees.. but my DD can be very nice very peaceful.. and the next minute be kicking her Aunt Jenny (who she loves).. Settle her down, give her an orange, apple (any other sugary fruit) and she is nice and peaceful again. Doesn't work with crackers or sodium foods.

I encourage this mom to have some things checked and try to look into the blood sugar aspect. Or talk to the ped... GOOD LUCK!

[catherines_mama]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle
I also do not like the walkie-talkie feature on some cell phones! Like you pointed a out a person has to listen to both sides of the conversation and then there is the annoying static sounds! I can deal with that outside, but sure don't like it in a restaurant or store.

T&B

My mother does this and I honestly hate it. I always ask her to go outside. We'll be out to eat and she'll get her phone and call my stepdad (he travels to NY for work A LOT). She'll talk to him then give the cell ph to Catherine (DD) to talk to him. She doesn't always WANT to talk on the phone so then she has this squirm NO moment then mom talks more. GEESH.. GO OUTSIDE MOM! I roll my eyes at her and ask her to end the call or go outside. I turn my ph on vibe when I'm out to eat... plain and simple. This way I know it ringing in case its an emergency but nobody around me does, and if I'm going to answer it I excuse myself.

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by catherines_mama
I very much agree with T&B (especially since we were at WDW together and JUST missed eachother) LOL



One day we will meet up, I just know it! lol Have you made your October trip yet? My DH and I were at WDW the end of Sept/early Oct.

I'm always ready to fall over when someone tells me that my son is well behaved or that they enjoy watching him (that happens when we're at his big bro's baseball games sometimes). He is very entertaining and can be so sweet, but can turn nasty quickly.

He's as smart as he can be, though, and I think a bit too sensitive to his surroundings. It's hard with other children who like to rile him up, either on purpose or not. This, too, shall pass... ::yes::

I do want to have Jake's hearing tested since he seems to "not hear" an awful lot. I know he's probably ignoring and/or not listening to begin with, but I should cover all the bases.

T&B

[KathAnn]

Just rocketed back from an unscheduled overnight stop at Disneyland Paris - totally fab!

Thought I'd post here and say there were absolutely NO screaming kids anywhere; the adults were supremely well behaved, the weather was ok for France (well, it IS October); my plane for home left on time. First posting from me that does not contain a whine, whinge or moan.

Off to WDW in 2.5 weeks. Hope it's warm and sunny!!

[lunabkat]

I have one for you.

I work at a banqet hall and we had a party for HIGH SCHOOL boys (awards for sports).

We were told to take off the sugar bowls, butter dishes and salt and pepper shakers because they would make a mess with them.

My 3 and 5 year old know better than to make a mess out of that stuff, what the heck are these parents teaching their kids?

By the way, this was for a school in a very upscale town, you would think someone would have taught these snotty little toads some manners.:mad:

[KathAnn]

lunabkat

Something that might interest/scare the wits out of you! Some kids in the UK are having to be taught basic table manners at school (including how to use knives, forks and spoons) as they're not taught this at home! Imagine what would happen if you're confronted by a plate of corned beef hash for lunch (or something similar) and you try to eat THAT with your fingers??! So many kids eat fast food as a main meal that they never use cutlery - so it comes as a big surprise when they have to learn to do that, as well as keeping their mouths closed when they chew. UUGGHHH!

[suzifli]

Originally posted by justhat
Okay, WDW isn't just for the 'well-behaved' child, but for the 'terrors' as well. To say that you understand children fully before you become a parent is impossible.
There really aren't any 'well-behaved' children, and thinking there are shows one of the things you learn when you have a child. Those children you see sitting quietly in their strollers as their parents roll them along may just be the same ones you see later throwing a fit in the Biergarten because Mom said she couldn't get the stuffed giraffe in Der Teddybar. Different things set off different kids and sometimes as a parent you don't know what that's going to be. that comes after it. As a child psychologist (who's currently a SAHM), people will be coming to me for advice on these issues and there's not really any solution.

It's possible that the kids you see acting out would be worse if the parent tried yelling at them, removing them, etc. Sometimes they just need to work through their own feelings on their own time. If we constantly help them act the way they are 'supposed' to, they will never learn how to modulate their feelings and behavior on their own. I'm not saying that if a child is jumping up and down screaming and throwing things that he should remain in the restaurant until his fit is over, but just giving you some insight as to why this might be the case. Some parents feel that if they give attention to a tantrum then it will only get worse or that the child will do it more, so they feel that by ignoring their child's tantrum, it will end faster and happen less frequently. This may not be true for all parents, but I know that's how some feel based upon my professional experience. Even those who do attend to their child's tantrum may have times when they just ignore them as well. If it's the hundreth tantrum the child has had that day, maybe they need a break from the screaming so they ignore it. I'm sorry that you then have to listen to it, but it's bound to happen when you're surrounded by millions of kids. If a family like that will ruin your meal, then don't vacation at a resort where there are millions of kids cause inevitably, their will be families like that.

Personally, screaming kids don't bother me, even before I had my daughter. I can continue with my meal, show, etc. without a problem, especially at WDW since I go there with the expectation of seeing kids everywhere, even 'bad' ones. Almost every kid in the world has a meltdown at some point, some more than others, so given all the kids you see at one time in WDW you're bound so see quite a few of them. You should vacation there with that in mind, and if you don't think that way and think all parents should parent their kids in only the ways you approve of then you should vacation at an adults-only resort.

This was an excellent post. I too had unreasonable expectations of children before I had one. No matter what any of these childless people think you can never even come close to understanding children unless you have one of your own and actually experience the 24/7 with them. As for the same sex couple posting I am guessing most of your friends do not have children, and that you really have no clue as to expectations of children's behaviors. Yes, Disney is for families of all types, however you need to get real about judging parenting skills with just a glimpse of the life of a few families at a place like Disney.
The bottom line is Disney is primarily for Children, to go to Disney and expect perfect parents and perfect children is a fantasy. Parenting is the hardest task you will ever face, mistakes will be made and triumphs will occur. I agree as a parent it is difficult to see others not doing a good job as parents. You will be a lot happier if you have some tolerance and realize each parent is doing the best job they know how to do. In closing if you want a vacation that is free of misbehaving children and poor parenting take a vaction where there are few or no children. Going to Disney is setting yourself up for frustration.

Feel free to flame me. I can take it.

[jkovick]

Originally posted by suzifli
This was an excellent post. I too had unreasonable expectations of children before I had one. No matter what any of these childless people think you can never even come close to understanding children unless you have one of your own and actually experience the 24/7 with them. As for the same sex couple posting I am guessing most of your friends do not have children, and that you really have no clue as to expectations of children's behaviors. Yes, Disney is for families of all types, however you need to get real about judging parenting skills with just a glimpse of the life of a few families at a place like Disney.
The bottom line is Disney is primarily for Children, to go to Disney and expect perfect parents and perfect children is a fantasy. Parenting is the hardest task you will ever face, mistakes will be made and triumphs will occur. I agree as a parent it is difficult to see others not doing a good job as parents. You will be a lot happier if you have some tolerance and realize each parent is doing the best job they know how to do. In closing if you want a vacation that is free of misbehaving children and poor parenting take a vaction where there are few or no children. Going to Disney is setting yourself up for frustration.

Feel free to flame me. I can take it.


*edited--------- because if I can't say something nice I won't say anything at all.:rolleyes:

[underdesea]

It always amazes me to hear people continually falling back on the "Disney is for children" argument. The powers that be at Disney obviously realized a long time ago that many, many adults enjoy the resort every bit as much as children--sometimes maybe more so, because adults can appreciate the enormous amount of energy and innovative work that went into creating all the World has to offer. If WDW was primarily for children, there would be no Pleasure Island, no Boardwalk, no lounges anywhere, no ride on property with height limitations, no gourmet restaurants such as California Grill, Jiko, and Victoria's and Alberts, no spas, no shops featuring anything other than children's merchandise, no pro-level golf courses...the list goes on and on. WDW was designed to appeal to many people of many ages and backgrounds and continues to evolve along those lines; it is much more than the Dumbo ride and It's a Small World in MK.

[suzifli]

Yes Disney has adult activities, I never said it didn't. It is delusional to think Disney is not PRIMARILY for CHILDREN, also the majority of adults at Disney are PARENTS, who utilize the adult oriented services with the help of the babysitting services in and around Disney.

[underdesea]

Suzifli: Well, I'm not a pollster in the parks or a professional statistician, so I can't say how many adults at the World are parents and how many are childfree. But I know there are many child-free folks on this thread alone, and I also see many singles and couples without kids when my DH and I visit the World, which is frequently. I also see posts here from parents who are traveling sans children, and I've met many childfree-for-today couples at the World as well. I'm not going to call you names and lable you as delusional because you don't agree with me. But perhaps you would feel more comfortable posting on the family board, rather than the solo adults and couples one, since that is how you travel to the parks and how you filter your experiences.

On another note, my DH and I were at the World during Hurricane Jeanne. We didn't run into a screaming child situation this time, but we did run into a few adults "acting out." For example, immediately after the hurricane passed, when our resort (OKW) reopened on a skeleton staff, a few "grownups" were complaining loudly because they had to wait too long for a drink at the bar (there was only one server and the line was out the door and down the patio) or because their chicken wings were taking too long (again, the kitchen was operating on a limited staff and menu). Just goes to show that maturity and manners--or the lack thereof--aren't an age-based thing.

[MM in KW]

Wow, I just stumbled onto this board and thread. I thought it was going to be what it said "Disney for Adults and Solo Travelers" but I see it has been, like most things at Disney (the elimination of the lunch service at the Norway pavilion being the most recent) it has been taken over by children and their parents who feel that their child is different / an angel and can do what ever they want.

I have got to stick up for a fellow Hoosier, Underdesea, and agree that to think that Disney is only for children is absurd. I also agree with Underdesea that if posters want to keep extoling the virtues of parenthood, they need to go to another thread.

Those of us without children get it - you love your kids and if we met you we would probably enjoy them as well. But that does not mean that Disney World is only about them. It is for me and my wife too. We enjoy the restaurants, the entertainment, the rides, the technology, the attention to detail, the customer service and the history. Of those reasons, it is more than likely that a child can only appreciate one or two of those reasons.

For goodness sakes, look at the Disney Stores. As recently as five years ago, it was a cool place to shop for unique Disney stuff. Just by going to the Disney Store was like a mini trip to The World. But the big boys decided that it should be more about kids and *kaboom* suddenly there was nothing interesting and everything was Pooh and Toy Story - the kind of stuff already stocking the shelves at Kmart.

Sorry, gotta get this high horse back to the stable.

[justhat]

I have to agree that WDW is primarily for children, even though it certainly caters to adults as well. I vacationed there before my daughter was born with my husband and with other friends, all childless, but no matter where I looked I saw tons of families, many more than other childless groups. They have nicer restaurants there because kids come with parents, and parents tend to have a greater interest in eating in nicer places. Though I have to say I was never allowed to eat chicken fingers and cheeseburgers for dinner so I would have been eating at the CG then, like I do now. Also, we went there for NYE (to the CG) in 2002 and there were plenty of families there and only 2 childless couples (other than my party). This was $500/adult and $250/child. So clearly these restaurants and not just for adults as we saw plenty of kids there. There is lots stuff for adults, but the bulk of Disney caters to kids.

[Tigger&Belle]

Disney is very clearly for everyone! I ended up on this board when planning the trip for my DH and myself. So many people literally laughed at us when they found out that we went to WDW without our children. Of course these are people without a life. ;)

My DH had such a wonderful time doing activities that were centered around adults--Segway tour, Cirque, Pleasure Island, etc. There are enough things to do at WDW that everyone can find things to do!

BTW, just because I have children doesn't mean that I need to limit myself to the family board. I do like to think my children are my priorities, but that I do have a life apart from them. :teeth:

T&B

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle
Disney is very clearly for everyone! I ended up on this board when planning the trip for my DH and myself. So many people literally laughed at us when they found out that we went to WDW without our children. Of course these are people without a life. ;) ...T&B

Very profound and very true. Disney IS for everyone, not primarily for children or primarily for adults or primarily for dogs or primarily for mice. It is truly for everyone.

[KathAnn]

I don't have children, and I adore Disney! It's just a fun place to go and, if like me, you're not posting from the USA, it's a great place to travel to. I enjoy the weather (well, Britain in November is C O L D!), the shops, the nightlife, the parks, the water parks, the cinemas, the restaurants - heck, I even enjoy the 9+ hours it takes to fly there. I haven't had a "bad" holiday anywhere in the USA - I've enjoyed all of them. Ok, I've had a few bumps along the way (see previous postings if you're desperate to hear me whine), but it didn't completely ruin the 2 week holiday.

Disney appeals to the child in all of us - whatever the age. I'm 44, my sister is 42, but we regress to about 10 and 8 when we get there. Tinkerbell flying beside the Castle during the fireworks will elicit the same response from me as it does from the child standing beside me. I actually get a bit scared in the Haunted Mansion (still haven't seen the film yet), but I wouldn't miss at least one trip. The teacup ride still makes me nauseous (but I go on it) but I've discovered that Space Mountain is a complete no-no for me. Alien Encounter gave me nightmares, but I thought it was brilliant. And Small World is my ideal "take a break" ride as it's so gentle and peaceful (sobs quietly as it won't reopen til 2005).

So, as an adult traveller without children I'd have to say that Disney shouldn't be missed.

Two weeks today till we fly out - I can hardly wait!!

princess:
:thewave:

[TheDuckMan]

You have a backhand dont you....hehe....JUST KIDDING!!!! I am going with my Sister, her husband and there 5 kids. I think they will do good though. They usually are well behaved unless they get tired, hungry, cranky, bored....etc etc......;) I usually just try to ignore other kids, but most the time I am too into the attractions to notice them a whole lot.

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
Very profound and very true. Disney IS for everyone, not primarily for children or primarily for adults or primarily for dogs or primarily for mice. It is truly for everyone.

You've gone too far--of course it's mainly meant for mice! :earseek: :teeth:

The funny thing about me planning such a nice adult vacation, hoping that my DH would want to return with the family (besides my DH and me needing a break from home...) is that he does want to return, but I don't recall him wanting to do it with the kids. Oops, didn't quite go according to plan. :)

T&B

[lunabkat]

Look, I have two kids 3 and 5 (girls) and we are going to disney in december. They can alternately be very good and very "uncooperative", it is the nature of the "beast" so to speak as well as the nature of the "beauty". ( Yes, i think they are adorable and love them beyond all reason, yes i know they can be the biggest stinkers sometimes, and no i don't always handle things easily nor in the best way - but i try to learn what works and what doesn't - don't we all?)

You have to know your kids limits and get them enough rest while they are on this whirlwind ride thru disney. I understand that there are people with/without kids there. Regardless of all the excuses/reasons for bad behavior it comes back to YOU are the parent and it is extremely rude for you to ignore the fact you child is being disruptive/rude/obnoxiously loud, etc. Take responsibility for your own children. How do you expect them to learn how to behave if you "ignore" a screaming meltdown in a restaurant. Get your food to go and get the kid back to the hotel for a nap, swim, down time, whatever.

When you take your kids to disney its for them to have fun, not be dragged from attraction to attraction until they are exhausted. Have some FUN, take the breaks and if you can't do it all, take it in stride. You want them to remember a good time, not a nightmare of cramming in so much they can't enjoy any of it.

And please, if your kid is screaming in a restaurant, have your partner get the stuff to go and bring junior (juniorette) outside for some air and go back to your spot at the hotel and relax. This is the single best piece of workable advice I can give.

Thanks...Good luck to all

[totalia]

Originally posted by lunabkat
Look, I have two kids 3 and 5 (girls) and we are going to disney in december. They can alternately be very good and very "uncooperative", it is the nature of the "beast" so to speak as well as the nature of the "beauty". ( Yes, i think they are adorable and love them beyond all reason, yes i know they can be the biggest stinkers sometimes, and no i don't always handle things easily nor in the best way - but i try to learn what works and what doesn't - don't we all?)

You have to know your kids limits and get them enough rest while they are on this whirlwind ride thru disney. I understand that there are people with/without kids there. Regardless of all the excuses/reasons for bad behavior it comes back to YOU are the parent and it is extremely rude for you to ignore the fact you child is being disruptive/rude/obnoxiously loud, etc. Take responsibility for your own children. How do you expect them to learn how to behave if you "ignore" a screaming meltdown in a restaurant. Get your food to go and get the kid back to the hotel for a nap, swim, down time, whatever.

When you take your kids to disney its for them to have fun, not be dragged from attraction to attraction until they are exhausted. Have some FUN, take the breaks and if you can't do it all, take it in stride. You want them to remember a good time, not a nightmare of cramming in so much they can't enjoy any of it.

And please, if your kid is screaming in a restaurant, have your partner get the stuff to go and bring junior (juniorette) outside for some air and go back to your spot at the hotel and relax. This is the single best piece of workable advice I can give.

Thanks...Good luck to all

I agree with you.

[underdesea]

lunabkat, you are the type of parent my DH and I admire! Nicely said!

[pixiedust23]

When we were younger (I am 22 now) we used to vacation at Disney almost every year. My parents would always go on one of those meal plans so we would end up going to the most expensive restaurants. We were always warned before going in, and we never caused a problem. One time at the Empress Lilly (it was on the river boat where Fulton's is now) we were warned that we better be on our best behavior and try our hardest not to even knock anything over. Needless to say, before the night was over my father had knocked over 2 glasses of water :rolleyes: and my brother and I had been perfect angels.

We also used to travel with our cousins, and our parents would allow the 4 (sometimes 5) of us to sit at a table alone, but they're hawk-like eyes were always on us. Once again we never really misbehaved for fear of what punishment 6 parents could come up with when they were working together.

I'm sure we all had our breakdowns but I feel as that if my parents could control my brother and I, then parents today need to step it up and get control of their kids! (As a sidenote: I've read through a lot of stories from parents here, and I would like to thank you for being great parents, or realizing that you're not yet ready to deal with the madness that ensues after having kids!):jumping1:

[delilah]

In my years, I have seen many children in many places have screaming fits. Yes, it is usually because of something parents have done to overstress their child. Twice, my son has embarrassed me at WDW to the point where I wished the earth would open up and swallow me, but, I was really trying to do the right thing at the time. Once was two years ago in December. My son and I went by bus to DTD. We had lunch, and went shopping for a short time. He wanted to buy something, and I didn't, so he had a tantrum. I took him to the bus stop and nearly had to drag him onto the bus. He didn't settle down until we got back to our room. I apologize to anybody who saw my son's tantrum, but, really, what do you expect parents to do if their child is acting up and they didn't bring their own transportation? If he has a tantrum outside Peter Pan, for example, it's going to take a while to walk to the front of the park, and everybody in Fantasyland and on Main Street will have the opportunity to click their tongues and think what an awful mother I am.

Another time, I believe the first time my husband and I went after our son was born (he was three at the time, I believe), we wanted to see the Hall of the Presidents. It was late enough so we would be seeing the last show. He was acting like a normal three year old. He wasn't crying or being loud, just a little antsy because we were way in back, and he couldn't see very well, and the show is a little advanced for that age, but, there were plenty of kids his age there. One old lady apparently felt she needed to click her tongue about that, however, although, I think she wouldn't have liked sitting within three rows of any preschooler.
Keep in mind, if you are an adult, other families have taken time off work to come to WDW and paid for their hotel room and park admission, just like you did. Sometimes new parents don't know just how their young child will act in a new situation. Now, I know not to take him back to Hall of Presidents until he's older (he's six, now, and I think I might try again).

[lc1965]

I'm sorry your son had a tantrum because you said no. It must have been very frustrating for you, but you might have thought about not taking him on the bus until he calmed down & taking him out of the attraction when he was clearly disturbing others. It's only fair to the people around you who are NOT the parent. I know that sometimes people have unrealistic expectations about kids' behavior, but parents sometimes have unrealistic expectations about what other people should reasonably tolerate, even at WDW.

[justhat]

Delilah, I am so sorry you had to go through a tantrum, as I've been there many times myself (though not yet with my daughter as she's only 8 months old, but with nieces/nephews). I'm sure you did what you thought was right, and I can't say I would have done anything differently either.

When posters like lc1965 say that you should have waited for you child's tantrum to end before boarding the bus, I really get annoyed. First of all, had you waited, I'm sure you would have gotten comments about how sitting at the bus stop with your screaming child annoyed/disturbed the others at the bus stop. So either way you can't win. Also, how are you to know how long the tantrum will last? With kids, those things are so unpredictable, it could have been 2 minutes or 20 minutes. You said he didn't calm down till after you were in the room-so I'm guessing that was at least 20 minutes from when the tantrum started, based on walking to the bus stop, waiting for your bus, the bus ride, plus walking from the resort stop to your room. It might have even been as long as 45 minutes, who knows, but had you just sat at that stop for all that time, wouldn't you have been doing a disservice to the others at the bus stop, and at DTD all the stops are close enough that everyone waiting would have been 'inconvenienced'. Then you would have been written up as the terrible mom who let her kid throw a tantrum at the bus stop.

Should you have taken him out of the Hall of Presidents? Not in my opinion. You said he wasn't crying or being loud. Well what do others expect, total silence? It's not an R rated movie, where you wouldn't expect to see kids (not getting into if there are kids in there making noise), it's WDW where kids are welcome in every attraction. Kids talk/laugh/make noise in every attraction in WDW, so do adults, so should they all be removed? My daughter went to the Hall of Presidents when she was 3 months old and it was her favorite attraction the whole trip. It was the first time she laughed, ever in her life, not just on the trip. Yes, she was laughing and squealing in excitement at these plastic men talking and moving around. Did it disturb others? Possibly so. But she was happy and loved the show so I didn't even consider leaving. We saw it 2 more times on that trip and she loved it each time. I don't think her enjoyment should be compromised anymore than an adult's should be a child. if only one person was bothered by the child's behavior, then it couldn't have been too bad.

Kids aren't quiet creatures by nature. We can try our best to keep them quiet (and I do, though it's easy now cause my daughter is an infant), but sometimes it's not possible. To say someone shouldn't take their child back to the room, but rather wait and let them keep screaming at a bus stop is ridiculous. How is that beneficial to the child. If the child is acting up like that, odds are they need a break/rest, so even if it means they cry on route to that rest, sometimes it's the only option. Keeping the child out, simply so people on the bus get a quiet ride isn't really in the best interest of the child.

So again, Delilah, I think you did a great job with your child, and I agree, parents don't always know what the best solution is at the time they need to decide. What works one time may not work the next, and you only find out through trial and error.

[lc1965]

I am not suggesting that the child be kept at the busstop -- as you say that would have been disturbing to another group of people. After all, you have a virtually captive audience for either tantrum location. I am simply saying that there are any number of places where the child could be relocated to deal w/ his overstimulation or rebellion or whatever was the cause of the fuss. We do disagree fundamentally, though, on one thing & we shall have to agree to disagree -- I don't think anyone but the parent need deal with the problem. Often (but certainly not always) parents are ultimately concerned with their own situation & not that of others around them. For example, they are more interested in getting the child to bed than with correcting the behavior & not imposing on others or enjoying their own dinner while letting a child run through a restaurant -- or any of the other scenarios mentioned here. When I was a child I was pulled far away from the people my bad behavior was disturbing & dealt with immediately & firmly. As a result, my sister & I caused few public problems. Also as a result, my sister's daughter is not prone to public displays of temper. It's a series of choices to be made as a parent & as a member of the public. I work with many children in public places & am often the one who has to teach the children how to behave in public while parents & chaperones ignore the issues at hand -- I do this simply as a survival tactic. It always amazes me when parents THANK me. I wonder why they don't do what I do & on a regular basis. So does my mother.

[suzifli]

It always amazes me when someone who clearly has no children makes judgement calls on others parenting skills. To suggest that the parents did something wrong because the solution to the situation was to take the child back to the room rather than take them aside and deal with them "firmly" causes others to have to tolerate bad behavior is unreasonable. I cannot profess to know what the definition of "firmly" is to you, however I have a pretty good idea. I agree if a child is willfully disobedient that punishment is necessary, however a small child dealing with the overstimulation that occurs at a place such as Disney when everywhere you turn there are shops designed to instigate the "I wants" from children, taking them back to the hotel to calm down was the right thing to do, even if others had to tolerate a screaming child for the walk and busride. As for correcting other peoples children, some people may take great offense to this. I would have been one of those thanking you. That does not make me a bad parent. I am sure almost every parent would agree that children do not tend to push someone who is not thier parent as much or for as long as they do their parents. The parents are "safe" the kids can let their guard down and of course they are going to keep it up for someone else. They do not know others limits and most often will not push them. I personally do not believe in raising my children to fear me, and small children do not have the capacity to deal with their emotions which many times results in a tantrum. I believe that the "firmly" you talked about was the installation of fear, I also believe that when you raise your child to fear you, you have less of a chance of producing a well adjusted adult. Do not get me wrong, I do not believe in giving in, children need limits and boundries, both learned behaviors. I suggest next time you are having to tolerate someone else's children's behavior, take a step back and show some compassion. If the parent is not giving in such as not buying the child what they want because they are having a tantrum, perhaps a word of encouragement, or even just an understanding smile would help that parent with that wonderful opportunity to teach thier child by experience that behavior like that does not get them what they want, and in fact means for the moment the fun is over. We all have to tolerate behavior from time to time from children and adults that we do not appreciate or is inconvienient or disturbing to our environment. A little compassion goes a long way.

[justhat]

Okay, so let's say she doesn't keep the child at the bus stop, you said there are many locations to keep a screaming child, but where in DTD would you suggest? A bench would disturb all the other shoppers/visitors, so that is out. Surly the stroe where he threw the tantrum would be out too. So I'm at a loss as to where I should keep my child if she ever throws a tantrum in DTD so as to avoid distrubing anyone with her behavior. You can be as firm as you want with a young child, but that often will not help at all. I worked in a daycare until my daughter was born, and have tons of experience with toddler tantrums, and sometimes there was imply nothing you could do besides ride it out. If you're in a public place, well then everyone around you will be 'disturbed' by it, but there's no other option. Like it was mentioned, if a kid has a meltdown outside of Peter Pan, and the parent decides it's time to go back to the room and nap or just take a break from the activity, how are they to do that without walking through the whole park to get to the exit, and then on to their transportation? There really isn't another way and in doing so many people will see the tantrum and possibly be annoyed by having their day disrupted. I can't imagine vacationing anywhere that kids are allowed and not seeing at least one screaming child. It will happen.

Often (but certainly not always) parents are ultimately concerned with their own situation & not that of others around them. For example, they are more interested in getting the child to bed than with correcting the behavior & not imposing on others

I'm confused on what the proper way to correct the behavior is. If a 2 year old is crying uncontrollably in a restaurant because he's tired, how do you correct that? Kids cry when they're tired, hungry, frustrated, etc. That's not something you can discipline a kid for, it's part of being a kid. Now if the parent chose to ignore the child's crying to continue eating, and disregarded the child's needs and those of other diners, I could see how it is thinking of themselves only. But if they leave to take the child to bed, how is that not thinking of anyone else? You can't always just stand up and leave when you have kids, sometimes it takes a few minutes to pack things up and get ready, so you might see that kid cry for a few minutes first. In my case I could do that and my husband could get everything else. When we have a few more kids, however, it won't be an option as I can't just leave with the screamer and tell him to get the other 3 kids and all their belongings. It's simply not feasible all the time, so in those cases you may have to put up with screaming for a little while. Judging the parents on those small instances, and saying they're only concerned with their own dinner is very extreme, as they may be trying their best to remedy the situation.

(I am excluding things like kids running around the restaurant, as that is a completely different situation.)

[Eeyore's Queen]

I wasn't going to reply but the the last few comments about taking your kids somewhere to calm down before getting on the bus and about disciplining other children annoyed me. I thought of this thread twice yesterday. First was when I went to my 2nd graders Halloween party. I had my 5 year old daughter with me and a friend of mine had her 4 year old daughter with her. Both girls got to sit next to their brothers. My friend's daughter started to hit her brother and was annoying him. The teacher stepped right in and told her to stop it. She of course, stopped. Both my friend and I asked if we could take the teacher home with us. Why? Because other children will usually listen to everyone else but their parents. I could tell my kids to stop hitting each other, etc. until I'm blue in the face but that wouldn't do as much as another adult saying it. My friend asked why my kids are always so well behaved. I had to remind her that my youngest was not there. She has seen him in action. All kids are different.

The second thing happend when I went to the mall last night. I had my youngest 2 kids with me (4 and 5). We were getting icecream when a 2-3 year old had a major meltdown. Kicking , screaming the whole nine yards. The mother had to pick the child up over her shoulder and leave. She looked mortified. I felt for her. I've been there with my youngest. There is just nothing that you can do but leave. My kids were wondering what was wrong with the girl. (Like they have never been there.) LOL

As for discipling harshly, I responded earlier on this thread about how I took my oldest son out of a restaurant a few years ago when he was having a tantrum. (very unlike him) All I did was talk harshly to him outside when some man yelled at me to be easier on him. He wasn't kidding. He was a real jerk. He had no idea why I was raising my voice with my child (outside) and it was none of his business. I wasn't hitting my child, but all he would have had to do is call the police. Then what? I am very leary how I discipline in public now. So before other people judge parents, they really do need to know the whole story. I don't agree with letting your kids run around and cause chaos, but having a tantrum is another issue.

Sorry so long.

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by justhat
...I'm confused on what the proper way to correct the behavior is. If a 2 year old is crying uncontrollably in a restaurant because he's tired, how do you correct that? Kids cry when they're tired, hungry, frustrated, etc. That's not something you can discipline a kid for, it's part of being a kid. ...

My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

[Tigger&Belle]

Deb, that is true and parents also generally know if they have a child who is more sensitive to overstimulation or a child who does well with it.

My son, for instance, is a high needs kind of kid (at almost 5yo), but he loves the activity of WDW. He can go fairly long hours without major problems because he enjoys himself so much. He is by no means perfect (don't I wish!), but he doesn't do any worse at WDW than at home.

And as far as the child who screamed the whole way to the room on the bus, it's called a major meltdown. It's difficult to witness, even harder for the parents to try and deal with, and it must be downright frightening for the child to go through. An understanding smile from a stranger would go a long way in helping the parents to realize that "this, too, shall pass".

Not all kids go through this--my first child was fairly tempermental and had her share of tantrums, but, being the firstborn, life was pretty good for her. My second was faily easy going and my third was a dream! Then I had Jake... He has tested every parenting theory that I've ever had (and since I'd had a few kids I had quite a few theories). Yes, he's the one that is the reason for my "these are the good ole days" tag, something that I remind myself every day!

More sympathy from strangers in many respects would be a wonderful thing!

::yes::

T&B

[Scrappymags]

Oh why not comment. I'm 30, single, kid-free, and a soon to be high school teacher. If I don't want to be around kids - flat out, I'm not going to Disney for vacation! It's just NOT the place to go. You're gonna see a few tantrums, you're gonna see some parents losing it. The upside is seeing all the kids dressed up or that look of wonderment, etc. I have no kids, but of course, I love kids being a teacher. One morning when I soloed at Disney, a little 7 yr old boy started talking to me. I wound up having breakfast with his family! They were so nice!!

I agree that parents need to monitor their kids, but let's face it folks - there are crappy parents out there, and NO ONE thinks they are that bad parent. The people who are posting here about how they discipline or remove their kids when they misbehave or throw tantrums - no matter WHAT situation are NOT the "problem people" being discussed (that I can tell). Those people (not the ones commenting here) are completely clueless, either by choice or ignorance to when their kids are really disturbing others. Frankly from what I see, they don't care. They feel that their kids can do no wrong. Don't get hyper-sensitive parents!!. The ones that are annoying are the ones who do nothing when their child is screaming. Unfortunately, the best remedy is just to remove yourself from the situation if you can.

[justhat]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

That can be true, however it's not always the case. Kids can be very unpredictable and so the kid who can normally last till 10pm or later (like my 3yo niece), may just get so overwhelmed after a day at the MK that at 8pm they're screaming. Other kids simply have no schedule, like my daughter, so each day is different and presents its own challenges. Of course, my daughter is very happy as long as I'm holding her, so no matter what time it is or where we are, I can be sure she won't cry cause if she fussed I'd hold her and she'd stop. Now, once she's a bit bigger this probably won't work (and unfortunately it doesn't work during the night when I want to sleep!) and I'll have to find new strategies, but as of now I'm okay. But if you have a kid like this, who is normally fine, you might not realize that being in WDW would cause new problems.

If kids are at a late dinner, it could have been the only one the family could get. Though I know that's hard for any of us to imagine, but it is true since many people have no idea that there are so many restaurants in WDW. When we went to WDW in May, it was with extended family and friends, most of which who had never been there before. One night we were invited to dinner at the CG with one couple on the trip, and the others were left to fend for themselves. Despite my info given to them pre-trip, they didn't know you should make a PS or what time restaurants opened or closed. So my SILs and my then 2 yo niece ended up having to eat at the snack bar at the hotel at 10pm because every place they tried in Epcot was booked and they didn't realize the park closed at 9pm. Now, my niece stays up late to begin with, so not a problem for her, but for some kids this would have been a problem, but not something her mom or aunt could have anticipated. This would not have happened to me as I planned before I went, but having never been there, my SIL didn't understand my need to plan, and still would not know how many possible places she could have eaten in. Lots of parents don't want their kids to eat cheeseburgers for every meal so they try to pick a sit down dinner, and when they get a PS time of 8:50, they may not know there are other restaurants, and therefore earlier dining times.

And Scrappymags, you're very right about every parent thinking they're perfect and so are their kids. I learned that working in day camp when I was 14. Of course, I hope not to be like that, but I'm sure I'll fall into that trap from time to time.

[pixiedust23]

My personal opinion (you don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it) is...

If a child is having a meltdown in a ride (aka crying and screaming, and not just being a regular kid who's gonna talk and ask ?'s) you should leave the attraction. It's common courtesy to those around you. Otherwise you are entitled to stay and enjoy it with your child who is prolly enjoying the attraction as well, but is just more inquisitive than grown ups.

If a child is having a meltdown at a restaurant, it's time to go. You can always take your food to go and they clearly are too tired to be where they are.

If they are crying and having a tantrum b/c you won't buy them something, don't give in to them to shut them up. I've seen many parents do this, and it just teaches the child that if they cry they'll get what they want. So maybe it would be best to take them out of the store and I agree that it was ok to get on the bus with a crying child. You need to get them back to "home" wherever that might be at the time, and I have a lot more respect for parents who understand that then trying to make them "stick it out" (so i forget who's son was having a tantrum at DTD, but good job. I commend you.)

I guess that's my take on kids and I'm only 22. I dont' have any yet, but most of my income for the last couple years came from babysitting (4 mo-11yo) so i've seen it all.

[KathAnn]

I've posted before and while I understand meltdowns from tired, fractious children who're being hauled around a theme park when they need a nap, downtime, or just plain feeding, what I don't understand is the few parents who allow a complete hairy fit and DO NOTHING. That's what this thread is about. People who do nothing, but sit in the restaurant finishing their desserts or wine, while their offspring run round the place causing a riot.

Many people have written about how they cope (or in my case, don't cope well) with badly behaved children, and it's been an eye-opener. I've had excellent advice (especially from T&B), and the occasional "off" comment from others, but my big beef, and I think most of the other Singles and Solos who've posted, is these so called parents who think it's ok to sit back and let Tornado Tot blow him/herself out.

I'm off to WDW this Thursday and I can hardly wait! Two weeks of sun, fun and shopping!

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by KathAnn
I've posted before and while I understand meltdowns from tired, fractious children who're being hauled around a theme park when they need a nap, downtime, or just plain feeding, what I don't understand is the few parents who allow a complete hairy fit and DO NOTHING. That's what this thread is about. People who do nothing, but sit in the restaurant finishing their desserts or wine, while their offspring run round the place causing a riot.

Many people have written about how they cope (or in my case, don't cope well) with badly behaved children, and it's been an eye-opener. I've had excellent advice (especially from T&B), and the occasional "off" comment from others, but my big beef, and I think most of the other Singles and Solos who've posted, is these so called parents who think it's ok to sit back and let Tornado Tot blow him/herself out.

I'm off to WDW this Thursday and I can hardly wait! Two weeks of sun, fun and shopping!

Don't think that singles and solos are the only ones that feel this way. I'm a parent and I agee with you 100%.

[justhat]

I agree about kids who run around screaming in a restaurant, though I've never personally seen this happen in WDW or anywhere else so I can't say anything about the parents/kids involved. On the rare occasions when this occurs (I say rare since I've been eating out since I was a child, and as far as I can remember, I'd say the past 20 years or so, I have never encountered this), I still wouldn't judge the parents as I don't know what their situation is. I don't think they should let a child run around eating bread from someone else's table, but again, I don't know their situation so I will not say they're bad parents.

I do have a question though, about giving in to kids and appropriate behavior. If the child is throwing a fit in a restaurant because they want to leave, whether it's to get to a ride, back to the room, whatever, should you leave the restaurant with them or not? The reason I ask because wouldn't this be showing the child that if they scream and cry they get what they want? Would it be better to take them out and give in, or let them have their fit, and realize that despite their screams they whave to stay with their family until the meal is over? I really don't know what the 'correct' answer is, if there is one, so that's why I'm asking. Obviously if the kid is screaming to go on Dumbo, then you wouldn't take them out to go on the ride, but if they just want to leave the restaurant in general, do you leave?

[Tigger&Belle]

KathAnn, I love that--Tornado Tot!

How has your neice been doing lately?

Sometimes a toddler or preschooler does need to just have a blow out, but that should never be done in a restaurant, show, or attraction. Outside on a bench, in the car, etc is different, but not where it ruins a good experience for everyone else.

I thought about this thread yesterday. I was going into a public restroom at the mall. As I was approaching the door (but not real close) someone came out and the door banged behind her a few times. I thought that was kind of strange. When I opened the door it hit a young child who was on the floor kicking the door (from the inside). When I went into the stall the child continued to kick the door, which was annoying to listen to and she was in a dangerous spot. One of those "what is the mother thinking letting her child do that" moments. I give my kids plenty of leeway in their behavior, but that was a little much for me. The family left before I did or I probably would have shown my concern that they child was probably going to get hurt hanging out where the door would hit her. DUH!

Again, the child was being a kid, but the mother sure wasn't being an adult!

Justhat, my children have never screamed because they want to leave a restaurant, but if I was in that situation I would remove the child until they calm down and then return and do it as many times as needed until we got through the meal. That kind of thing has really only happened when my child was coming down with something, though.

With my son it's not that he has a lot of tantrums at almost 5yo, but that he is just plain loud, so he gets lectured and removed afair amount of time (and sent to his room at home). Things are improving at least and one day he'll be grown and I won't have to deal with this (thank goodness and boohoo). ;)

T&B

[Tigger&Belle]

KathAnn, looks like I'll jsut miss you--we leave for WDW 1 month from Monday. Too bad, you could have met my son. Uh, maybe it's better this way. ;) He is very often such a charmer to strangers, though--not shy, will chat and ask questions, etc. I get a lot of positive comments about him since he is engaging and a comedian. Of course they don't have to listen to him 24/7. LOL

T&B

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by justhat
...I do have a question though, about giving in to kids and appropriate behavior. If the child is throwing a fit in a restaurant because they want to leave, whether it's to get to a ride, back to the room, whatever, should you leave the restaurant with them or not? The reason I ask because wouldn't this be showing the child that if they scream and cry they get what they want? Would it be better to take them out and give in, or let them have their fit, and realize that despite their screams they whave to stay with their family until the meal is over? I really don't know what the 'correct' answer is, if there is one, so that's why I'm asking. Obviously if the kid is screaming to go on Dumbo, then you wouldn't take them out to go on the ride, but if they just want to leave the restaurant in general, do you leave?

I think what I would do in this situation is to remove the child from the dining room. Take them to a quieter place away from the diners (maybe the lobby, maybe just outside the door) until they get quiet, then rejoin the party inside the restaurant. But I sure wouldn't let the child make the decision where we were going to be. If one parent is still inside dining with the rest of the family, I would sure hope that he or she would come out and swap places with me so I could eat my dinner in peace. If the child got quiet, we both could rejoin the party in the restaurant. But we would stay near the restaurant. We just shouldn't cause the other diners to winch in pain from the noise. Take the kid out!

I see this all the time at church, when a small child will get restless and start to cry. One parent takes the child outside. A little while later, the other parent will go out and the first parent returns to the church service.

I still stick with my original thought, that only the parent has a clue when the child may approach meltdown time. And that they shouldn't wait until it becomes a full blown disruption before they do anything about it. Nip it in the bud. Nip it. (what movie was that from anyway???? ;) )

[lunabkat]

Delilah i think you did just fine with the tamtrum. Let's face it, if people don't want to deal with kids throwing fits, they don't go to Disney (lol). It's not so much the kids having a fit that the parent is trying to do something about that most people have a problem with. I think the resentment stems from the parents who don't do ANYTHING but let junior run the show.

Have fun on your trip.

[bavaria]

The other day I was in a hotel lobby and saw a little girl about 4 yo climb on a bell cart, over the luggage, and perch ON THE TOP OF THE CART, laying across where the top ball is.

I went over and said 'honey, I don't think that's safe, and you should get down' and helped her down. Her parents were sitting nearby and just GLARED at me.

I felt sad for their DD - she was very cute but I was really concerned that she would get hurt, and it was apparent that her parents were not worried.

I hesitate to say this, but when I was in WDW in September with a group of 10 including 3 kids, one of the mums brought her nanny, and the other mentioned several times that she missed hers, who was at home. Some parents are simply not experienced at being parents. As I mentioned before, it was Auntie Bavaria who entertained the kids - very willingly of course! But part of me was sad that the kids didn't get to experience so much with their parents.....

[pixiedust23]

"I don't think they should let a child run around eating bread from someone else's table, but again, I don't know their situation so I will not say they're bad parents. "

Ok I dont know how to post quotes so that's the best I can do. I would just like you to reread what you wrote. If a small child was running around a restaurant, came up to your table, took food off of it, and then left, while the parents were sitting in view enjoying their own meal and not appearing at all apologetic you wouldnt think they were bad parents? So if a child was stealing from the gift shop, and the parents were looking and not saying anything would you still feel they werent bad parents b/c you didnt "know their situation"? I'm sorry but there is really just no reason for a child to be acting in this manner! I completely agree kids will be kids, but parents also need to be parents..aka showing their kids right from wrong. I'm! really sorry but what you said just made me extremely angry!!! :mad: :sad2:

[justhat]

No, I cannot say they are bad parents. They should have acted in that situation, but that instance alone does not make one a bad parent. They could be great parents and simply werent' paying attention and didn't notice their child was doing that. Yes, they should be watching at all times, but it they make one mistake then i can't say they're bad parents. If that were the case, we'd all be bad parents. When my daughter was a few days old, I was making her a bottle of pumped breastmilk, as I had an infection and nursing her was too painful. Well it was about 2am, I was exhausted, in pain, plus on medications making me somewhat out of it. I filled her bottle with old milk. It had been sitting out hours (after having been refrigerated) and I had it by the sink with the intention of cleaning it in the morning. I accidentally used it, but didn't realize it till after she had consumed it, when I brought the bottle to the kitchen sink. It was a mistake, one I was very sorry for, but it was just that, a mistake. I don't think it made me a bad parent, but perhaps if you had seen me do only that you would have thought so. For me, this is the same for parents of kids runnig around at a restaurant. Maybe they just made a mistake, maybe they're not usually like that, I can't judge them because I don't know them or their situation. If they were watching their child run around and saw the kid take food from another table and didn't care, well then I might think differently. But my guess is that if this happened, the parents probably didn't notice. Maybe the child had been walking around their own table and then wandered off without the parents realizing it. Maybe the kid wanted to see something, like a dessert tray, away from the table and the parents had said it was okay, but then the child started acting up. I don't know how it happened, so I can't judge on it.

[pixiedust23]

Just that- I think we are having a miscommunication. Of course everyone makes mistake, like in your case. And I'm not saying when children wander off that that in that case you are a bad parent. Children wander by nature. They are inquisitive to this big new world around them. I was referring to children who are running around, screaming, making a huge disruption to the entire restaurant. The parents turn around see the child and either laugh or just raise a hand in the air with a face as if what am I to do. Maybe this is something you haven't seen...but I have, and it's not pretty. We have all seen that cute little curious child walking off from his/her parents at a restaurant or in church, etc. That's not what I'm referring to at all, I'm talking about parents who have a blatant disregard for wanting to disicpline their child.

[NIK]

I SOOO agree with you Pixie. I've just got back from Disneyland Paris and most of the kids there were well behaved. However I stood in a queue for ages waiting for the steamer to come, whilst behind me a mum was allowing her three kids to swing merrily on the barrier, clonking people in the legs, left right and centre. Everyone was glaring and complaining about this but she did nothing, just continued her conversation.

The wretched children then proceeded to push through the queue of people, closely followed by Mamma who clearly saw an opportunity to queue jump. What was this teaching those children? That it's okay to be a menace to all around and then not have the grace and patience to wait your turn?

Momentary distraction is one thing, but allowing your kids to run riot and upset all and sundry whilst being well aware that this is what they are doing is disgraceful. I'm not talking of the child that has 'difficulties' but about those families who simply make no effort to moderate the behaviour of their children.

Isn't that what parenting is about? I kind of wonder what kind of bullying, horrible grown ups some of these little so-and-sos are going to make.

[delilah]

Originally posted by Deb & Bill
My take on this one is that the parent knows how long their child can continue until they are tired. So if the parent has made a late dinner seating because it was the only one they could get, they probably knew in advance that their kiddo was going to be tired and hungry long before they were served their dinner. I see far too many kids being pushed around the parks in strollers who are whining and crying only because Mom and Dad wanted to stay in the park longer to do more/see more. I was amazed to see so many small children at the Halloween party at 11PM. They probably should have been in bed hours before that.

Just because you are at WDW, a nice dining facility, etc., doesn't mean that you should upset your child's normal schedule. It's bound to cause the poor kid a problem. Only Mom and Dad know now long their kiddo will last before they can't take any more. Don't ignore that knowledge that only you have.

This is so interesting. My son has had meltdowns similar to the one at DTD three times in the entire 6yrs and 8mos of his life. The first was when he was 11mos old. We had just been downtown at INS getting his citizenship (he is from Korea) and Social Security (to get the important social security number). This took all morning, and we stopped at a favorite restaurant to celebrate. He had fallen asleep in the car, but, unfortunate woke up when we went inside. He had a horrible tantrum. I ate two bites of my meal, and we got up to leave. The second, he was at daycare. He was less than 2 years old. He had been awakened from a nap, and started into a tantrum. It was so scary to the daycare staff, and had been going on so long, that they called me at work, and I had to go pick him up. He was still mid-tantrum when we got back to my office, 20 minutes later. Finally, I actually got him to go back to sleep. Then, there was the day at DTD, two years or more later, and about 2pm. All we had done that day was go to DTD. He was usually nap resistant, so, I don't think he was tired. Now, I certainly know it is not ok to wake him up from a deep sleep. He will be upset even now, but not really a major meltdown. But, after a 20 minute bus ride, and 1-2 hours walking around DTD? Hmmm.....

[Tigger&Belle]

Originally posted by NIK


Isn't that what parenting is about? I kind of wonder what kind of bullying, horrible grown ups some of these little so-and-sos are going to make.

You know darn well what kind of adults this kids will turn into...like the man who didn't want to wait in traffic yesterday who cut out of the line (saw him in my rear view mirror), cut into the left turn lane until he saw an opening and cut back in. Or the man who was behind me at line to get into Costco one day who tried (notice I use the word *tried) ;) ) to weasel his way in front of the crowd even though he'd just gotten there. The ones who pretend they don't see a line so they can cut in it. I'm sure we all have plenty of stories to tell (hopefully none of us are those rude adults!).

I really (here I go again) think that we all basically agree. When children are disruptive they should be taken out of a restaurant, movie, show, etc. I don't mean a little squirmy, but yelling, running around, etc. And it all depends on the actual place as to what is acceptable. If it's a noisy restaurant that's very different than a quiet show.

We should all ne understanding of special circumstances that a particular family might be facing. Some kids are nice and quiet, others by nature aren't (still doesn't mean they should be allowed to disrupt, but sympathy and understanding from strangers is wonderful). And, of course, there are special situations/handicaps that can be fairly insivible to other people.

And Bavaria, if you run into us at WDW, I hope my son is in a "charm strangers" mood! LOL

T&B

[spiceycat]

no offense - but I have no kids - but you have got to realize that for many, many people going to wfw is a once in a life time thing.

many of us go every year.

lot of people can only afford to go once.

when their kids start yelling they are going to ignore them - because they can't afford to leave.

Now if WDW offered these parents tickets to come back at other time - then yes I think more parents would leave - but WDW does not.....

if you saved, saved and saved for 5 years (or more) then when you get there your kid acts up - what would you do?

yes if would be wonderful if these people could leave - but in many situations - this will probably be their only trip to WDW. they can't afford to kept coming back - as many of these boards do.

If these kids bother you so much - then while don't you leave? You can come back. Or just go to another park or restuarant - tell the manager why you are leaving - and perhaps they could move you - or not charge you.

before you start judging their parenting skills take a good look at them.

also eating off others plates - I think this is a culture thing - in some countries this is a compliment. Now in this one it is not - but kept in mind that WDW is an international place - not just a US one.

alot of the complaints are over (in my opinion) a difference in culture not rudeness - but that is my opinion.

before you judge someone walk a mile in their shoes.

the parents I get mad at - are the ones who aren't anywhere near the kids - little kids - 10 and 12 (or around those ages) playing in the pool - jumping in a non-jumping zone - scaring little ones - that sort of thing - and where were the parents - who knows they send the bigger sister to tell them to come in and eat.....

never leave your child alone at the pool!!! you never know when a emergency is going to happen!!!

as far as breaking in lines - that is rude - however - the one time I did it - I waited behind these people - they were in separate lines and they were talking...talking...talking...talking - for several minutes - there was NO ONE in front of them - they weren't going forward because they were TALKING.... in those cases - hey I am definitely breaking in line.....So were the many people behind and beside me.....

they are reasons for breaking in line - if you are being very, very, very rude to the people behind you by refusing to move forward because you are talking to your friend - hey GET OUT OF THE LINE - the line is no time to be socializing - many people behind you need to go somewhere else and they can't because you are talking....

[justhat]

Pixiedust23, I posted a reply yesterday, but I don't see it, so I'll try again.

I was referring to children who are running around, screaming, making a huge disruption to the entire restaurant. The parents turn around see the child and either laugh or just raise a hand in the air with a face as if what am I to do.

This is totally different than the scenario I posted about. I didn't say that if kids were running around screaming, throwing plates in the air, whatever, and their parents smile and laugh at them then they are good parents. I said that if a small child takes bread off of my table then I would not assume his parents are bad parents. They may not have seen the child do it. The child who is running around wildly, yelling and knocking things down would be a totally different story, and not the one I mentioned that you said made you angry. In the situation I posted, I still believe that I cannot say they are bad parents, since it's a fleeting moment that I would be judging on, and I don't know how they would normally act with their child. Again, I have never seen anything like this in any restaurant, even outside of WDW.

Really though, even if they are bad parents, we've all got to expect to see our share of 'bad parents' in WDW, or anyplace kids are allowed, especially when there are tons of kids at any gven moment in any location, like at WDW. We may not like it, but even 'bad parents' want to take their kids to WDW.

[justhat]

Spiceycat, ITA. Many people can only go once. Not only do the parents keep moving with their plans despite a complaining child, but the parents themselves get tired/stressed/etc. Then the kids are more likely to 'act up', causing the parents more stress, and well, it just keeps circling. So I'm sure that explains some of the problem cases.

[Tigger&Belle]

Speaking of cutting in line, I have a funny off-topic story. Years ago (BC--before children) my DH and I were in Washington DC. We walked up to the Washington Monument and walked right on the elevator going to the top. We had a good time looking around and when we returned back down and walked out we realized that we'd just bypassed a very long line, probably an hour long, that was wound around the monument. When we walked up we did it with such purpose that we appeared to be with the group that was going up the elevator at that time.

We got a very good laugh out of that and I have since tried to give people the benefit of the doubt when they may not mean to be cutting in line. Of course most people know what they are doing.

We couldn't have cut in line any better if we'd been trying to. Every time we're in Wash DC now and pass by the Wash Mon we laugh about that incident. One of those "making memories" times!

T&B

[KathAnn]

Hi T&B!

Tornado Tot is my Mother's affectionate nickname for Courtey. Since I last posted about her, she's been the perfect model of acute angelness and even dressed up as an Angel for Halloween! Don't know what's prompted this change in behaviour - but, boy, am I glad about it. We can now get through an entire (home) dinner without food being thrown, serving her UNDER the table, racing round the room, or a screaming fit happening. No medical reason for this behaviour - paediatrician (a guy!) says it's just the Terrible Twos. She's not 3 for a while, but we're keeping our fingers crossed the bridge has been crossed behaviour-wise.

Her vocabulary for a 2 year old is spectacular and she's never baby talked - but I was astounded when I heard her say that she didn't like the witch at the Halloween Party as "she's overdone the makeup - it looked a bit too green in this light"!!!

Eilidh (other sister) and I are off to WDW on Thursday (I'm posting from the UK and it's 7.20pm here now). A bit of a panic on as I'm working right up to the wire and my boss has jokingly (I think) asked if I'm taking my laptop with me. The answer is of course NO, but he's just remembered I'm off for 3.5 weeks (not 1 this time) and I think he's starting to panic. Well, too late to worry about it now - holiday's been booked since September 03!

Sorry I'll miss you - we could have swapped horror stories. With a bit of luck though, I won't have one to tell you all about when I get back.

On the countdown now - Splash Mountain, here I come!

K

[KimR]

Originally posted by justhat
I do have a question though, about giving in to kids and appropriate behavior. If the child is throwing a fit in a restaurant because they want to leave, whether it's to get to a ride, back to the room, whatever, should you leave the restaurant with them or not? The reason I ask because wouldn't this be showing the child that if they scream and cry they get what they want? Would it be better to take them out and give in, or let them have their fit, and realize that despite their screams they whave to stay with their family until the meal is over? I really don't know what the 'correct' answer is, if there is one, so that's why I'm asking. Obviously if the kid is screaming to go on Dumbo, then you wouldn't take them out to go on the ride, but if they just want to leave the restaurant in general, do you leave?

Yes, by all means you should leave. It is not fair to the other diners to be subjected your child's screaming. If you teach your child a lesson by letting him/her sit there and have a fit, you are doing so at the expense of everyone else. Trust me, the few times my kids have acted up in a restaurant and were promptly removed, it was not a fun experience for them. But then again, we didn't simply pack everything up, leave, and then go home and watch videos...the offending child was disciplined while the rest of the family enjoyed their meal. Honestly, I can only remember having to do this once for both my oldest and youngest. My middle one, stubborn little thing that she was, was another story altogether...it took several trips out to the van before she decided it was much more fun to stay in the restaurant along with everyone else and behave! :D

[Tigger&Belle]

KimR, I hate to be the one to warn you about 4th children, but I see from your counter that you will be having one...my 4th was the one to do me in! LOL If you have a boy just don't name him Jake and you might be fine. Jakes are all trouble. ;)

T&B

[KimR]

Originally posted by Tigger&Belle
KimR, I hate to be the one to warn you about 4th children, but I see from your counter that you will be having one...my 4th was the one to do me in! LOL If you have a boy just don't name him Jake and you might be fine. Jakes are all trouble. ;)

T&B

LOL! NO, say it isn't so!! I've already gone down that road with my 2nd and it wasn't pretty, I tell ya! I always say if she'd been my first she'd be an only child! My first one was very energetic but exceptionally well-behaved. My middle one was a fiesty, stubborn, headstrong, button-pusher who loved to test everyone's limits. My 3rd child was a dream.....so I'm thinking if the pattern repeats itself I'm due for another terror. :earseek: And I'll have to remember that about the name Jake if it's a boy...I've already been told to avoid the name Michael for that same reason! :teeth:

[rx8anna]

So this is totally off topic, but had to respond to the latest posts since I'm a 4th child.

KimR - Your descriptions of your 3 children sound exactly like my 3 older siblings in the same order. And if it holds true for the 4th, speaking from experience, *she* (or he) just might be the light of your life - the one you'll be most closest to. ;) LOL!

[Tigger&Belle]

We don't call him "Jake the snake" for nothing. :)

My first was a lot like my last, but being a firstborn she didn't have the competition for everything and seemed a little easier (she's now an almost 17yo HS senior), my second was pretty easy, my 3rd a dream, which is why I went for #4. I figure God has a sense of humor ;) and/or wanted to make sure I didn't go for #5.

There is no doubt that I wouldn't have had a 4th if my 3rd was like Jake. Something tells me that I will be very close to Jake when he's older. Not that I'm not now, but I think his personality will serve him well when he figures out how to channel it.

T&B

[pixiedust23]

Spiceycat,

I agree there are many people who can only afford to go to Disney once. So while some parents allow their children to scream and carry on, they are ruining the once in a lifetime chance for other children and families who are able to behave. :(

[PhotobearSam]

SpicyCat...

I don't think they have to leave but at least take a time out, go someshere quiet and wait it out a bit. If the child does calm down then you move on but just letting the child disrupt others is unacceptable in any circumstance.

My Mom could not afford to just walk out of a place if we misbehaved as children but there is no way she would "inflict" us on everybody around. She would take us aside (in the car, in a bathroom or another quieter place) and let us get tired of acting up.

If parents want to continue park hopping around while their child is having a breakdown, this is plain selfish. The child is not having any fun, time for a rest. The time out would help the frustrated parent too.

The notion that this may be their one and only trip is not valid in my opinion. There is no sign at the entrance to WDW that says "A Place for Parents to take time-off".

Parents are parents no matter where they are. Most parents I see are trying their best. BUT the ones who expect YOU to endure their child as they ignore them are not doing a good job.

No one said parenting is easy...but it is a 24/7 job.

[spiceycat]

if these people are the ones who have planned for this trip and put every penny in it for 5 long years - you want them to leave just because their children are acting up.

I think that is a very unreasonable request of your part.

they worked hard, very, very hard for 5 (FIVE) years to get to WDW.

if their children bother you - you can leave - you will be back - they probably won't!!!!

I went this year in May - when the parks were doing the special E-night - it was free....You should have seem the screaming children.
Parents who won't have put their children through this if they were paying - were there in number because they weren't.

every place had screaming children - it was much, much too late for these kids to be out - but since it was free - they just had to be there!!!

WDW if they want this to stop - should as I suggest start giving our free passes to parents who kids are screaming so they can leave the park and not feel that it is costing them hundreds of dollars. Otherwise it is definitely....

lets say that a kid is screaming in tomorrowland - first of all the parent has to get out of the park - with a little one screaming - lets say 20 minutes to the front gate - then get on the monrail - again 20 minutes or ferry - maybe 20 minutes - then to get to their car - 20 minutes - just to get the kid to the car - this is assuming no majority stops....

this is very unfair when you had to save for years to get to WDW.

Sorry if there child is bothering you - leave - you can - you will be back - they won't....

[NIK]

I'm sorry Spiceycat but I don't entirely agree with you. I also have saved and paid for a rare holiday. Why should I have it spoiled by some ill mannered little tyke whose parents havent' the first intention of curbing their young 'uns behaviour.

Sure, Disney is a wonderful place for kids and one of the joys for me is watching the little ones having a great time. However no matter where I am I see no reason why I should have to tolerate being kicked and poked - as I was just last week at Disneyland Paris - because Mama decided she couldn't be bothered to make her children behave.

As for someone else eating off my plate - doing it amongst a family group is one thing but if a stranger, child or adult, helped themselves from my plate there would probably be trouble.

I am all for tolerance and fair play. Any child however well raised, can embarass himself from time to time by a display of petulance. And of course there are those with behavioural problems who literally can't help themselves. It's not those children I'm referring to. It is those children, or rather those parents, who can't discipline themselves never mind any unruly kiddie.

When I was a youngster - it aint that long ago I assure you - if I misbehaved in public I was right out the door, no messing. I'm sorry for the family if it means they lose out but perhaps they need to address these issues BEFORE spending their hard earned on a once in a lifetime trip.

[spiceycat]

NIK - kids even well behaved kids can go crazy at WDW.

My niece and nephew - their first trip to WDW - crazy. they were in strollers - if we wanted them out it would take several minutes - but those kids could get out and into trouble in 10 second or less if they wanted it.

Now part of the problem was my sil she refused to even consider those leace type things - so the entire trip we were chasing kids around in the park.

they would have never acted like this at home - but sometimes the kids can get so excited that they forget that other people are there too.

they were little monsters - broke in lines at character meets - would run up and grab something if they wanted it - I was pretty embrassed....

It got so bad that mother and I had to leave - walking Spicey has caused many a family war to dissolve....

but my brother at the time though this was his only trip to show his family the wonders of WDW - I joined DVC because of this trip so they have gone so many times that the kids now think that everyone can afford WDW....

but for most families this is a hard ship.

I still think you are blaming the wrong people. WDW should have a policy where if a family is causing a propblem they should be give tickets if they agree to leave. WDW does not do this.

you are going to have kids at WDW - hey it was designed for THEM - most kids are going to go crazy - there is so much to see and do - and nothing can prepare kids for this.

I was beaten as a child - no child should have to do through that -with a belt, coat hanger and other things - today children have rights and thank god for that!!!

You are blaming the wrong people - if these children bother you write to WDW and suggest that they do something about it. Complainting here does NOTHING.....

but to expect everyone in a WDW park to be behaving for your benefit - I think is asking alot.

I have more problems with the adults who get drunk and then start yelling in the hot tub at the resort....these people need to serious look at their lives....

[justhat]

Originally posted by NIK
I'm sorry for the family if it means they lose out but perhaps they need to address these issues BEFORE spending their hard earned on a once in a lifetime trip.

It's possible, and probable in most cases, that the kids don't have behavior problems at home. Most kids just get so overwhelmed and overstimulated in WDW that they don't know how to handle it. The parents are too, most newcomers are unprepared for WDW, so when the overstimulated kids whine to the overwhelmed parents, breakdowns occur. My cousins took their 'once in a lifetime' trip to WDW (courtesy of my mom) and though they're a happy little family at home, they all got grouchy, whiny, etc. (This was a 6yo girl and her parents.) This family never could have afforded WDW, so my mom paid for their park admission, airfare, and we got a 2 bedroom suite that they stayed in with us. They even got some meals free (Cinderella's breakfast, a banquet dinner from the convention we were attending, and a few lunches). But when their 6yo kept asking for every princess item she saw, and just about every other souvenir, things got rough. It was hard for their child to constantly hear 'no' while my husband's 2yo niece would get stuff because her mother could afford a little more (though again, not much). This also applied for snacks, desserts, and anything else that cost money. I mean, the 6yo did get stuff, but when you've never been to WDW and all you see are things you dont' have, it's hard for a little kid. Not to mention how she didn't want to hold her mom's hand, but walk alone like our 12yo cousin, so then the mom got upset that she might get lost. All these things do not come up at home, and if you met this little girl, you'd think she'd be perfect to take on vacation. And overall she was, but like any 6yo, she had her moments of tears, never a meltdown or anything that severe, but there was crying, pouting, etc. And this family took breaks at the pool each day, napped, etc. But things can still be more than the child can handle, and no, parents dont' always know this in advance.

[pixiedust23]

I am not trying to incite a fight, but this actually is a place where we can complain about it and discuss our feelings on the matter. It is a "discussion forum." I think I can speak for everyone when I am saying that no one wants to see a child mistreated or struck, that is most def not what we are discussing here. However your main point seems to be that families save up for 5 years to be able to go, and they should not have to leave an attraction b/c they're child is acting up. But you are missing that they are ruining it for other families who have saved up for 5 years and acting decent. And as for the adults drinking in the hot tub, perhaps they are there b/c they have saved up for 5 years as well and sacrificed to take their vacation to Disney for their kids, and are trying to enjoy themselves as well?

[justhat]

I think I see what spiceycat is saying, though feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If a child is in some way being disruptive in say, Mickey's Philharmagic, the CMs should be responsible for asking the family to leave if they feel it's such a disruption to the rest of the people. Same in a restaurant. However since this doesn't happen, and the CMs don't step in, they sort of 'assume' it's okay, normal child behavior in a child-friendly vacation destination. Parents spend a lot to go to WDW, and if it is their only trip, once they get there they see how much there is to do and see and they think "Oh my gosh, we have to do so much in so little time. We better get up at 7am and stay out till midnight so we can squeeze everything in." When I went with the cousins previously mentioned, I mailed them park maps so they could plan what they wanted to do and see in advance. They e-mailed me and said "We'd like to see the Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom, if that's possible and okay with you." Well we bought them 5 day parkhoppers, which I had already told them, but they had no idea what it meant to visit multiple parks, or that they were all right there. Even with my help, they were very overwhelmed upon arrival. Again, that's just my interpretation so spiceycat feel free to make comments.

I really don't think my vacation would be ruined by a screaming child ever. That's what kids do, they cry, run, laugh, etc. I go there, or really anywhere with kids, with that thought in mind. If I ever got to the point where a screaming child would ruin my vacation, or severely disturb it, I would start going to couples only destinations. Now, if I got kicked or hit like another poster said, it still would not ruin my day. I would ask the parent to stop the child if it bothered me that much. We went to Naples, FL last December when I was 7 months pregnant and on a trip to their zoo a small child, maybe about a year old, was sitting behind me on the boat ride to see the monkeys. Well, she had just learned to walk and there was no way she was happy about being confined on the bench seat to see monkeys. So she kept squirming on the mom's lap, kicking and hitting the back of my head. I turned around once to see what was going on, saw it was a baby, smiled at the parents, who apologized, and then turned back around. Well, despite the apology, the little girl kept kicking and hitting me. Did I enjoy it, no, but it certainly didn't ruin my day or zoo experience. Although everyone who is annoyed with 'bad' kids in WDW claims to have been perfect as a child, I'm sure you had moments when you acted up and disturbed others. Kids aren't perfect, and if you can only handle perfect kids or your vacation will be ruined, then I would think twice about going back to WDW.

[pixiedust23]

I'm sorry I'm not meaning to say that children would ruin my vacation. I LOVE kids! I even borrow my neighbors kids at times b/c well I dont have any and wont be having any for many years. But parents need to realize when their children have reached the end of their rope. Obviously when you keep your kids out from 7-12 their going to be cranky. I don't blame the kids for this at all. That's how kids are. I don't blame kids for running around and acting like kids. I do however have mean thoughts about parents who drive their kids to extreme exhaustion levels and let them scream and carry on, while doing nothing to stop them. Or taking them to take a much needed nap. Just b/c your in Disney and it might be your only chance to get there doesnt mean you shoudl cut out nap time to maximize park time.

[spiceycat]

well I am sorry - but for the parents on this once in a lifetime trip - it is just that - once in a lifetime - the kids (in their opinion and some guidebooks too) can nap in their strollers (they can't) - but you are talking about people who probably can't afford to stay on WDW property taken their children out of the parks - that can be a 2 hour trip back to their hotels for a nap....

I am sorry - it is not going to happen.

Again you are complainting to the wrong place - go complaint to WDW since it is their policies that are causing this to happen.

as far as adults not being in control of themselves - are you kidding or just trying to start a fight.

Kids have no control over where they are - or what they are doing - their parents do. there is a reason why most kids when asked what the most enjoyed about their WDW vacation say - the hotel pool.....

Adults do have control of themselves and what they are doing - who cares if it is their one in the lifetime trip. While I feel for kids - adults can and do take care of themselves. they definitely know when they are being rude....kids don't always.

thanks everyone you definitely worded it much better than I did!

[pixiedust23]

SpiceyCat-

I'm not trying to start a fight with you at all. I'm just trying to get you to see that yes you have a point. People can save their whole lives to get to Disney and they should enjoy it as much as possible. Trust me I do understand that. But there are other sides as well, just not your opinion. I also save an incredible amount of money to go on vacation too, and it's not just that kids are screaming and crying. But parents are pushing them too much and they're not even enjoying themselves.

In summary: I am not trying to start a fight with you. I respect your opinion. However I feel that other peoples opinions count as well.

not at all trying to be insulting -C princess:

[DizBelle]

I really don't appreciate people who feel that they are entitled to whatever they want regardless of how it affects others. They think that since they paid a boatload for their trip, they are entitled to do whatever they want, even if it ruins others' trips. They just don't care if someone else also paid a boatload for their trip. All they care about is themselves.

These people are very selfish. WDW is not for them. WDW is for those that want to experience joy and enjoy seeing others experience joy.

[justhat]

The selfish people want to experience joy too, and they do, despite the moments of tantrums. They also like seeing others experience joy, despite their tantrums which may affect others. I highly doubt anyone with a tantruming child thinks they are ruining anyone's vacation. And for most people they're right. I rarely meet anyone who came back from WDW saying their trip was ruined by screaming kids. Most people expect it to happen.

[DizBelle]

I also don't think that inconsiderate people should be rewarded with free tickets. Every admission lets you come and go all day - some to only one park, some to any park.

Given the previous assertion that WDW should give away free tickets, I could get to the park at 8am and stay until 8pm, have my child throw a tantrum, then get free tickets for next day. Not fair and not a good idea.

[DizBelle]

Originally posted by justhat
The selfish people want to experience joy too, and they do, despite the moments of tantrums. They also like seeing others experience joy, despite their tantrums which may affect others. I highly doubt anyone with a tantruming child thinks they are ruining anyone's vacation. And for most people they're right. I rarely meet anyone who came back from WDW saying their trip was ruined by screaming kids. Most people expect it to happen.

If they're selfish, maybe the find joy in seeing others suffer. If they are selfish, they they don't find any pleasure in seeing others experience joy. That's the definition of selfish. Selfish people, when encountering others that are experiencing joy, would resent those people just because they are enjoying themselves. And, if they are really mean, they would find a way to ruin those people's joy.

Selfish people think that it is unfair if someone else is happy when they are not.

I don't believe at all that someone with a child that is shrieking for the entire Mickey's Philharmagic show has no clue that they are affecting other's enjoyment of the show.

[spiceycat]

I have seem this happen yes - and most of the times the parents are just embassed - but if they leave the child soon learns that causes a sense in public will get him/her what they want to LEAVE.

remember that learning is something a child (and hopefully us adults as well) must go through.

sometimes the parents will use these scenes to make the child aware than other children don't act like that.

WDW is enough to put even an even tempered child in a panic - every where they look - there is something different - something to touch - even WDW veterans (like us) can completely be unaware of how much a child at WDW can get into and how fast.

Children get lost there - why the parents attention was on another child - or they lost something and was trying to find it - or some other person was talking to them. These aren't bad parents - just children who can't stand still.

Children at WDW can't be compared to other places. Children always try to get the adults to do what they want. This is not a good situation for the child, the parents or the other guests.

do you really think the child would try this at home? they know it would get them some down time - so they only cause trouble when they are out.

I have use the threat that if you don't start to behave now - we are going HOME - not the hotel HOME - I can do this because I will be back. It is not an empty threat.

People who are there for only once in a lifetime trip can't - they just can't afford too.

It is not a question of behavior - it is a question of money.

or that is how I see it.

Please if this bothers you that much - try leaving - you can come back - most of these guest can't.

of course too - I have also heard - generally the father - "we are staying - I don't care how you feel - I spend too much money on this trip - we are staying...."

On my May trip - I really felt for those kids - but it certainly wasn't their fault - some adults really need to consider whose vacation this is - if they still want to go - then fine leave the little ones at home - but then some parents won't leave their kids period. Are they surpose to wait until the kids are at least 10 to go to WDW?

however again you are blaming the wrong side of the argument.

write WDW a letter.

lfontaine - you didn't understand - the parents of the children who are upsetting everyone - would only get the free tickets if they LEAVE IMMEDIATELY - not when the park is closed.

If you want an adult only place - go to one.

WDW will never be an adult only.

[justhat]

Originally posted by lfontaine
Selfish people think that it is unfair if someone else is happy when they are not.

No, that is the definition of jealous. Selfish people want to be happy, but as long as there is enough happiness they don't care if others are happy too. However, I don't consider the parents of every screaming child to be selfish at all times, so I think they are capable of enjoying others happiness at times as well.

Originally posted by lfontaine
I don't believe at all that someone with a child that is shrieking for the entire Mickey's Philharmagic show has no clue that they are affecting other's enjoyment of the show.

If it were such a horrible disruption to the show, WDW would tell the family to leave the show. They want money and if all their guests are annoyed, they won't come back. I know if I have a ruined vacation, I'm not likely to go back. My husband hated the Disney cruise because we were in an expensive category 3 room and all we heard were people on the deck above us playing ping pong and running around the pool. We will be cruising with Princess cruise line this Dacember, not Disney. So if they thought screaming kids were a huge problem, they would stop them. Apparently screaming kids don't bother that many people since they haven't changed their policy. Like I said, it wouldn't bother me, I know kids can do those things so I wouldn't expect a silent show.

[PhotobearSam]

lfontaine - you didn't understand - the parents of the children who are upsetting everyone - would only get the free tickets if they LEAVE IMMEDIATELY - not when the park is closed.

SpiceyCat-I think that you don't understand...When is the cut off time for this.

Let's say the park closes at 8pm and the people in question have been at the parks since 8 am till 6 pm...That is 10 hours. Now let's say that the kids act up BIG TIME at 6:01 pm and Disney would have them leave right away. By your rules they would get free tickets to come back another day.

They have already had 10 hours at the parks and pushed their little ones to the point of exhaustion. NOW they would get REWARDED for doing so by getting FREE tickets...

:confused: :earseek: :confused:
Not very fair to the "responsible" family that went to the parks in the morning, left for a few hours to go for a nap or just down time in a quiet place (I have seen people napping or laying around in different places all over WDW) and then back again for a bit of evening fun.

Don't they deserve better. They had to leave the park but with your system, you would reward BAD BEHAVIOR...What is up with that.

My brother knows he can't push his 2 kids for 10-12 hours of excitement without ending up with cranky kids...He knows this and therefore takes measures to make sure he does his best for the kids. People know their kids before they leave.

I am not talking about a child who throws a little hissy fit when they don't get a toy or cry for a little bit...I am talking TANTRUMS. Throw yourself on the floor, screaming, fits of rage tantrums...

I have seen people totally ignore their kids and have a grand old time while their child ran around, hitting others, disrupting wait staff at restaurants and cause accidents that could have been severe. (Say a child run right into a server with 6 cups of hot coffee in his tray because the parents were too busy drinking to watch their child and then the parent blamed the WAITRESS for not watching the child...)
:mad:

You can't be serious about rewarding bad behavior. This is anarchy. I don't reward bad behavior here at home and asking WDW to do so is just plain idiotic. They would loose money hand-over-fist and as of now they have the right to ask anyone to leave.

Personal resposibility is what is being disussed here and saying that people leave their resposibilities at the door is a bad idea. Where will it end...

[KarenNY]

I think this thread has covered every aspect of the topic and I don't want to see it become a debate. I'm locking it now.