Choose a Carpool

[All Aboard]

Seems as though we have more passengers on the board than ever before. Maybe it would be fun to do a carpool signup sheet. Since this is a WDW board, I'll ask the question this way: How do you perceive the Magic of Walt Disney World today. Please use the poll feature and then you can write whatever you want. I am starting with just four cars, if I need more - let me know.

Of course, we will need a driver for each - feel free to volunteer.

I'll start. I put myself in the "Magic is as strong as ever" car. Since we are talking just WDW (not ABC, Pearl Harbor, Disney Stores, go.com, etc.) [I know, DVC, one relies on all the others, but..] to me, I look forward to nothing any more than the trips up to WDW I take with my family. And each time we get there, I am not disappointed in the slightest.

To me, the addition of the All Star Resorts is a wonderful thing. It gives me the opportunity (at $49 a night) to go as often as I do and stay on-site. They, by no means, cheapen the experience.

My daughter asks nearly daily when we are going to WDW. I get great pleasure from showing her all the things I have loved so much since my first trip in the mid-70's. We marvel together at the new things too. Now that she's tall enough, she is amazed at the wonders of Splash Mountain. We could watch ToN & RoE over and over (in fact, we do.) The parks are as clean as I remember, the cast members just as friendly and helpful.
__________________________________________

While all of the above is still true, many decisions made in the last year and a half have pushed me into car #2. Specifically:

1) The elimination of EE
2) Dinorama
3) Pop Century
4) Operating Hours reductions

What will it take to get me back in Car #1. Restoring EE, bringing back some of the operating hours and giving AK some much needed quality attractions.

In general, I need to be convinced that Disney is committed to pushing the envelope of entertainment and not allow WDW to flounder.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Car #3 is my car of choice. And as of this moment there are three votes for that car, but no posts. So it looks like I'm driving.

ALL ABOARD!!!

[ww52]

Great idea! I voted "in serious jeopardy" (based primarily on my teenaged kids' reaction along with their friends- since they are future Disney vacation consumers) but I am in fact somewhat optimistic. Their reaction to AK, their perception of DCA and their opinion of the sequels are their biggest negative issues.

But I've offered the opinion before that it could change overnight with a truly grand announcement - which could happen with the 3rd gate at DL or a BK announcement. If that happened, I'd switch my vote in an instant.

[Captain Crook]

I'm with my friend gcurling for exactly the same reasons as you ww52, my kids reactions. My daughters are 12 & 8 & LOVE WDW. They think DCA looks great (it's me being troubled about it) and like gcurling we look forward to every single moment of every single trip!

I'd be in a different car were we discussing Disney, the Company, but since it's WDW, it still gets a big thumbs up!
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

[Sarangel]

Put me down for Car #2 - I think the Disney Theme Park Experience is in trouble, but with a little attention could easily be repaired.

Animal Kingdom & DCA both take a lot of knocks on the boards, but I think that we all forget how new these parks are and how long it takes to mature a park. Disneyland was a monumental success, but it was the first one in the tank. Other parks have taken 5-10 years before they mature enough to reduce the grumbling of the masses (DLP, MGM/Studios - I count TDL as the anomoly).

That being said, I will join DVC Landbaron in wishing that maintenance could be a little bit more regular - my favorite DL ride (Storybookland Boat Rides) is missing major parts & *really* needs a paint job. I'm afraid I don't really care if the maintenance is done during the day or at night, it just needs to be done.

Corporate also needs to take a good look at building real e-ticket rides once in a while. The preponderance of film-based attractions at both Epcot & DCA can't have serious staying power, and the tendency towards minor modifications to an off the shelf ride is a little disturbing... How much harder is it to give a ride real theming and a story?

Sarangel

[hopemax]

Where's the car for the "I'm saying the magic is fading because I'm too scared to admit that the magic may already be gone but I'm still optomistic that someone will force Disney to turn around someday but still may take another 3-5 years?"

A month ago, I was in WDW for a family reunion. I took my Grandmother, and 3 sets of aunts & uncles and 2 teenage cousins who had never been to Disney and another set of aunt and uncle who went to WDW in 1983. It was lots of fun showing them around and everyone had a really good time. But I couldn't help but notice that the lion's share of the things I enjoyed were things built pre-1995, and the lion's share of the things we avoided were built after 1995. After 5 stays at Dixie Landings I've never waited more than 10 minutes for a bus, this trip I can count the number of times we waited LESS than 10 minutes on one hand; it was awful. Prior to the trip my Mom called several times to check on our reservations, including 2 days before, but that didn't stop us from spending 5 hours at the reservation desk trying to straigten out the mess they had us in and having to switch rooms; there was never an "I'm sorry about this situation" uttered from the people at the desk, instead they acted like we were the ones who made the mistake. What did we ask for? Alligator Bayou, and not to be spread out. Those things leave bad impressions.

I've been trying to deal with trying to not financially support this current Disney while not punishing myself by giving up something I love. My solution is to concentrate for the time on the "old" Disney. I'm going to the NFFC convention, next week where I can talk to Sam McKim, Bob Gurr, Harriet Burns and the others who helped make the "Magic". There will be a presentation about Ub Iwerks, and another about the documentary about Walt that the Disney family is putting together. The money I'm saving by not going to WDW is being used to buy Disneyana I thought I could never afford and to save for Tokyo.

[toefungus]

The main reason I voted for The Magic is in serious jeaopardy is becuase of the reduced park hours. There were other little small things, but when I saw that MK closed at 10pm in the summer, that really runied it for me. I remember back when MK was open 11-12am. I wish they would keep the parks open more! :(

[space42]

Well, I am in Car #3!

The thing that is driving me CRAZY is AK! I love the park. I think it is the most themed park in all of WDW. However, it is VERY appetent that budget cuts have killed what this park was supposed to be. If you saw any of the pre-openening stuff on TV you would have seen how woderful this park should have been. Instead we got only 1/2 of it built with the rest on the back burner. And that burner doesn't look like it is going to be lit for some time.
Have you seen what they are doing in Dinoland!!! This is an outrage! Dino-Rama is a mistake. They are building a rollercoaster that you can see the track and support structure!! Plus it is the same Wild Mouse coaster that you can ride at other amusement parks. This is unheard of in a Disney Park before the DCA nightmare. I dont want to hear the excuse that is is THEMED to be a roadside carnival either! This is like a bad dream that I cannot wake up from!
Oh well, sorry for my rant. This is all very upsetting to me.

and just think this same company built one of their best rides (Spash Mountain) IMHO just a few years ago. Well, I hope things turn arround soon. :confused:

[johare]

Put me in car #3 also (which needs to be a bus by now!) and please drop me off up the road at Universal!

[noblemickey]

I voted for car #3 as I feel Disney is not putting much into WDW at this time. In fact they are taking things away. No new "E" ticket attractions in the Magic Kingdom of late, just cookie cutter new rides at MK and also apparently at DAK. Hope the economy doesn't make a bad thing worse and that Disney Management sees the light and addresses 20 Thousand Leagues with an "E" ticket soon.

[daannzzz]

As usual with a poll ( like the ones Disney does at the turnstyles) my real opinion is not on the list. I fall between 2 and 3 and am getting closer to 3 fairly quickly. Though there is plenty of magic left it is not being as well taken care of and the new stuff is pretty weak. I can still go to all the parks (and hotels) and have a great time but there is a funny opressive feeling over things sometimes. I do love the Animal Kingdom though and think it is much better than Disney MGM. DCA has many, many wonderful spots and details but it lots of glaring bad areas too and the whole doesn't jell like any of the other parks. Everything seems to be fixable if they start now!!!!

[space42]

no, I wasn't forgetting Thunder Mountain.
The difference is most of the structure is built in to the mountain. The parts that you can see are "themed" to look like railroad tracks. Lets assume that Disney just put up Thunder Mountain without the rockwork/buildings/fake railroad tracks. It would be just a regular old coaster. And not a very exciting one at that. But the fact is that the did all of this because of the "show" and the "story". Even if the coaster is not that great compared to other more extreme rides. It is still on heck of an ATTRACTION. It also still packs 'em in 20 years later!!!

From looking at the concept art of "Dino-Rama", this new coaster looks like something from a shopping center carnival! I still cannot belive Disney is doing this. And the "themeing" is plywood cutout dinos!
Woo! I'm sure that will fix Animal Kingdom's attendance problems. Way to go Disney

BTW, if anyone has not yet seen the concept art I am referring to, you can check it out here http://www.wdwmagic.com/dino-rama.htm
Look a little down the page. You can see the coaster in the back of the image. Does this look like it belongs in a Disney park??????

[larworth]

As someone else stated neither car 2 or 3 is exactly right for me, either. I'm another in-betweener.

I think there is a heck of a lot of magic there today. However, there has been a decline in the quality and boldness of their product of late. They have gone into cruise control and have unfortunately decided that 5 miles under the speed limit is good enough.

It is not too late to turn things around, but given their current direction, prevailing corporate mentality, the downsizing of their creative engine (WDI)....I am not optimistic it will happen overnight.

From the results of the poll, hardly anyone actually thinks the magic is gone. Most of us will still be in line at Summit Plummit with smiles on our faces ready and willing to enjoy the show. However, many of also know that it wouldn’t have been that hard for it to have been even better than it is.

[ww52]

I thought maybe it would be worth bumping this up to see if we get some more votes. Interesting that it is essentially a three way tie.

[Spaceman Spiff]

i picked #2

[airlarry!]

I picked #3. Even though my heart tells me #2, my head tells me #3.

The company that gave us Splash Mountain, is giving us Dino-rama.

The company that gave us the concept art for Animal Kingdom, gave us the real Animal Kingdom. By the way, my wife and I love AK. It is very close to my favorite park ----- if it ever gets finished. Right now it just doesn't feel finished. It is beautiful, but there are some parts that you get this sad feeling like something is missing -- I know I will give you an example.

Head down to the Flametree. Get a Bbq sandwich -- we do every trip -- but don't eat right outside the stand, instead meandor down to the riverside where there are nice covered pavilians for you to eat under. Take a look out at the river. If you are feeling a little sad, then read Jim Hill's article on what was supposed to be out there. Then you will understand why I am between #2 & # 3. I want to believe that the magic is there, and I think if Eddie Sotto and John Lassiter were running the Theme Park and Movie division respectively, it would come back, but right now I am pessimistic.

Oh yeah. I will still make my annual Mardi Gras trip...but with a heavy heart.

[renknt]

I'm Picking car 1 Let's face it when ever I go to any of the parks the 9 year old switch flips on and some times doesn't reset for 2 or 3 days. But having said that I ride in car 2 with sarangel cause she knows where she is going :)

[Janet2k]

I chose car 2 but almost chose car 3. I would have loved to have chosen car 1.

I hope that Eisner indeed does want to be remembered along the lines of Walt. If that is true, I anxiously await the future...and my hop back into car 1.

[HorizonsFan]

I'm in car 1 with the usual suspects. I know I'm late so I'll sit in the back, but I'm not sittin' on the hump!

[Wes]

What is interesting about this poll is that 3 of the 4 carpools acknowledge the loss of the magic ... and more than 2 out of 3 people voting (right now the no-loss carpool is at 32.9%, leaving 67.1% on the other side of the vote) are acknowledging that loss.

[ww52]

Wes - I'll take your observation one further. If two thirds of the respondants (all of us Disney fans) feel the magic has faded, then for us the magic has in fact faded. An obvious statement - but what I'm getting at is all the arguements by car #1 occupants in effect don't matter. Our perception is our reality, and Disney needs to recognize this. It's going to cost them brand loyalty - a little now but a growing amount in the years to come. I realize this informal poll is nowhere near representative - yet I would think Disney better pay attention.

[Planogirl]

Even more telling IMO is that anyone who would choose number 4 would not be here more than likely. If someone isn't returning to WDW why would they bother with a Disney fan site?

I chose number 3 primarily because of what's happened to Epcot. We used to spend a lot of time there but now the time is quite limited with only Animal Kingdom receiving less attention and that only because of its incomplete status. In a relatively short period of time, we lost It's Fun to be Free, Horizons, Journey Into Imagination, a better Communicore (IMO) and FutureCorps (my personal favorite). No new lands have been added, Journey Into Your Imagination is a disappointment (bring back Figment!) and The Living Seas needs help. We just don't like it as much any more and it's very sad to me.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Since we refer to it all the time maybe it's time for an update and a...


... BUMP


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[TiggerFreak]

Maybe I'm not a seasoned WDW veteran, having been to the World only 4 times, 97, 99 & twice in 2000. So maybe I don't know what it was like in years past, but I still think there is plenty of magic. Every time I visit I feel like a child again. And until WDW fails to evoke this feeling I and firmly belted in car number 1 (hands in the air)!

WDW is one of the few places left where I can still wear rose colored glasses and feel safe.

Car number one runs on pixie dust:D

TTFN
TiggerFreak

[Lesley]

I picked car 2 but I'd say I'm more cautiously and hopefully optimistic...if things keep going the way they seem to be perhaps I'd end up in car 3 in a few years. But we always do seem to enjoy wonderful times at WDW so until our trips are much more negatively effected than they have been by dirty trashcans at opening time and the rare surly cm I guess I'll hang out for the ride in car 2. I would so much love to be able to hop into car 1!

[one2escape]

i chose car 2. Why even though I love going to disney every year or 2, Im from the UK, when i first started going there was something new e ticket sort of ride every year but now this year the only new thing is going to br millionaire and aladin. I want to bring my son to the park next trip no point bringing over in the 10 hour flight hes one at the moment yet, but when we go back will there be anything new for me to try? Like others said im a inbetweene 2 or 3. 2 for me because i see hope if they get BK on the go

[Sarangel]

Until we stop using this as a reference, I'm going to leave this at the top of the board. That way we can all see how the numbers are holding up.

Sarangel

[DVC-Landbaron]

Thanks Sara, Great idea!!


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[johare]

Thanks. It's interesting to see that as of now about 70% feel that the Magic has faded to some degree. Unfortunately 99+% are willing to 'pay more for less' and still give their money to Disney.

btw: I'm not the 1%, I'm in car number 3. I just don't give as much money to Disney as I did a few years back! :)

[DanG]

I am stuck between cars 2 and 3. I am currently in car #3, but have faith that within a few years and a change in amangement, I will be able to move up to car 2.

DanG

[gary]

I'm with you, Dan, except I'm in car #2. But then again, I'm currently wearing a shirt that says "Happiness is a state of mind. It's just according to the way you look at things." (DVC should recognize that quote).

Gary

[JeffH]

I'd be in car #1 (of course) with my buddy, gcurling.
Although I've seen many magical things come and go at WDW since it opened, the quantity (and diversity) of magic has never been greater for a father and his little Princess (Tasha). 4 very different parks, Downtown Disney and the marvelous resorts all make for a world we can never see enough of even if we spend 15% of the year there. Every trip is a fun and special as the last. We always look forward to the next trip. I go out of my way to find an excuse to go, including:
Birthdays (anybody in the family, even if they don't go with us)
Celebrations (Aniversaries, Millenium, 100 years of WD...)
the Epcot Festivals
Halloween
Christmas (!!!!!!!)
Easter
Intercot meets (3)
End of school, beginning of school
anytime I have the money
and just for the hell of it

And as far as the 'rumor' of Adventureland opening an hour later...
I've also seen hours come and go since WDW opened.
MK used to be open (in season) until 1am, but with hours like that when do we sleep?
No one needs to go to Adventureland first thing in the am, since it never really gets crowded, you should be in Tommorrowland or Fantasyland 1st thing in the am.
Epcot used to close at 10pm, now generally closes at 9pm (sometimes 9:30pm), but brought added fireworks to the mix every night. (they experimented with a 10am opening, but that was a disaster)
WS opens at 11am, because nobody gets out there until later.
MGM used to close before dark, but recently (with the addition of Fantasmic), expanded greatly to as late as 11pm.
AK used to be open, NOT, now is open adding 9 WDW hours into the World.
Asia opens later because nobody gets out there until later.

It all evens out and most of the cutbacks make good sense (as opposed to closing them down all together as a result of lack of attendance).
MK now has more 'even' hours and isn't open too late.
Epcot continues to have solid hours (9-9).
MGM is open late and later now
AK is open about as long as it needs to, considering it's compliment of attractions (you can do pretty much everything in an AK day)

Good suggestions for WDW to consider (that I've heard on the boards or thought of myself)...
BK at AK, ASAP!!! A boma type buffet between Africa and Asia for lunch in an AK Lodge type building nestled into the forest, this would be the entrance into a new animal land in the future like Camp MM is now.
Halloween Horror nights at MGM (so I don't have to recommend Universal to people w/o kids)
Extend Epcot's monorail onto International Gateway, MGM, Blizzard Beach and AK, resort busses would then only have routes to/from the nearest station and Downtown Disney.
Add-on to 1st floor of Imagination Pavilion (hidden in the back where the new Imagination Institute Tour ride would travel through to makeup for the space lost when we lost the 2nd floor, the playarea moved to the 1st floor and the line was added to.
New multi-culture pavilions in Epcot, to help new countries afford sponsorship by sharing the cost.
New E attraction in Adventureland to balance out the park, and Atlantis or Little Mermaid in the lagoon.
More playareas for the kids with a permanent one ('Small-World' pavilion) in the World Showcase
More character diversity, yes I know that the main ones are in demand, but simply mix a 'wild-card' in there with them, like add Rabbit/Owl/Roo (alternating) to the Pooh Gang mix at the Buffet and MGM meet and greet. Like, throw in another duck to the Donald/Mickey/Goofy/Pluto mix at AKbuffet. Just make every meet and greet and buffet a bit of a surprise, instead of the same characters every time.
Make the bridge to Liberty Square wider (2x) to allow enough room for additional guests to view the parade(s) (more curb) and allow for guests to pass as well, during the parade.

[DVC-Landbaron]

I'd be in car #1 (of course) with my buddy, gcurling.Sorry Jeff. You’ve either got to change partners or change cars. This is from a recent Gcurling post (regarding Adventureland’s hours):Well doesn't this just stink. I really hate to see this happen, I did not expect anything quite like this. Now I'm really fearful that we'll see more of this type of thing. What scares me the most is that even if economic conditions find their stride again, these changes may become permanent. I'm not making any more excuses for WDW now, it's official - I'm in Car #2 (which I defined as "The Magic has faded a bit, but I am optimistic that it will make a full return.) I continue to hold optimism, but things like these have me worried. Landbaron knows how I feel. Sorry Captain, Duck, Scoop... hope I'm back soon.You could always try #2. Or stick with the Scoop, Duck and The Captain/Pirate (or any one else he chooses to be ;) )!! But the good Gcurling is heading towards my car!!!

[JeffH]

Good, I get to drive, then...
I'm in the purple (Magenta) car
with Minnie on the Antenna,
Fantasmic on the front bumper,
Bambi on the dashboard showing the way,
and Pooh in the back window looking out for Hefalumps.
We'll be there to celebrate Tasha's birthday (8) in 2 weeks and again in 4 weeks (before and after celebrations)
Our 2nd trip will sneak preview the upcoming WD celebration and we will pick up our special pins and lanyards.

[HorizonsFan]

Shove over gcurling, I'm riding in car #2 now. I am confused about the direction in which Disney is headed. Cutting costs is one thing but cutting costs and at the same time risking billions on cable distribution is confusing at best...
Sigh...

[JeffH]

Well doesn't this just stink. I really hate to see this happen (Adventureland opening late), I did not expect anything quite like this. Now I'm really fearful that we'll see more of this type of thing.
Well, considering that this rumour has NOT panned out and Disney has said otherwise, and this unrealized rumor was the basis of Gcurling jump to car #2, I imagine he will return to car #1, now.
But I'm still driving, and Tasha is sitting shotgun!!!

[hoopdedoo]

First of all, I'm in car number 2. At an individual level, I am frustrated with a lot of what I see. I am frustrated that rides now close with nothing re-opened in its place. I am frustrated that quality rides - Timekeeper, CoP, etc. - seem to be disappearing. I am frustrated with the quality of what is being put in now - from the abomination of the JII re-do to Alladin's Magic Carpets.

All that said, as the father of a 10 year old and twins who are 7, Disney still is magic. If my kids had their way, we would never go anywhere but DisneyWorld. In the end, that is all that matters - as a father, my frustrations mean little in the face of their joy. They still see the place as magical, as do so many their age. Their eyes light up as we walk through the tunnel under the railroad and emerge on Main Street. Maybe their attitude will change over time, but for now, the magic is there for them, and that is really all I can ask for.

[Bryn]

For me the magic is as strong as ever.......but different.

First WDW trip I was 12.......I enjoyed it the way a child enjoys it.

Flash forward 15 years as I marry a Disney fan who lets me make ALL the wedding decisions as long as we go to WDW on our honeymoon. Now, I enjoy WDW as an adult-with-the-heart-of-a-child.
Jan 2002, we are going with the 2 kids. I'll be enjoying WDW as a parent (and still as an adult-with-the heart-of-a-child).

My perception of WDW (and Disney as a whole company) keeps changing as my life evolves.

I can't wait to take the grandkids!!

[DVC-Landbaron]

Bryn :I can't wait to take the grandkids!!
That is my wish as well. I want to stroll through WDW with my grandkids. And have them enjoy all the magic I have enjoyed throughout my life there. Not exactly the same rides or décor (all things change after all), but the essence of, for lack of a better word, magic. Those high 'Disney Standards' we spend so much time talking about here.

Sadly, I don't share your optimism. Instead I think we'll stroll down the lanes in Disney and I will hear myself trying to convey the way it used to be, "back in the day". Not what ride went where, but how the Disney Company used to go that extra step to insure that the guest had the most 'magical' experience ever. How they always exceeded expectations. How they paid attention to the most miniscule details, not in some synergistic effort, but because they cared about quality.

And those grandkids of mine will patiently listen, while secretly counting the seconds until I finally shut up and drive them to Universal!!

[King Triton]

I voted car pool #2. I do believe Disney lost some of it's magic when they took out Horizons, World Of Motion, and the old Figment ride (what were they thinking?). Please bring back those wonderful rides!! I know Walt would have kept those rides. Epcot hasn't been the same since. One of my favorite memories was taking my family to the Jolly Holidays Christmas Dinner show every year. It's now gone. :( That was going to be our family tradition every year. Oh well... The parades and Fantasmic keeps me coming back.

I love Disney. I just want to see more of the magic to come back.

King Triton:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[JeffH]

I was hoping that they'd resurrect the "Jolly Holidays Christmas Dinner" in the Millenium Village building after it closed. It was a very popular (sold-out) event.

[ContempoSMT]

How can we say it is fading. I feel the same way every time i go back and i get excited for my next trip as soons as i come back from disney world. The magic is 100% their to me.

[TXDeb]

I had to vote car #3. I wanted to be able to choose car #2, but with all the recently announced cut-backs, reduced hours, closed attractions and restaurants, I was forced to admit I am now most definitely in car #3, no matter what I wish for.

I have to admit I am still living on the magic of past trips. Each time we go, I manage to find that magic deep inside even when things are not so magical in reality. I really do still hold out a little hope for the return of the magic, but it may be too late for my teens - future parents who will be deciding where to spend their vacation dollars before too long. All three used to be huge WDW fans, but over the past couple of trips, I have seen their enthusiasm fading. They would much rather go to Universal and IOA, now. Yes, they are at the age where they really enjoy thrill rides, but that is not the reason they now prefer the other parks.

Even with our last trip they still preferred staying at a Disney resort, and spending most of the time at the WDW parks. They said that Universal and IOA just didn't have the same 'feel' to it as WDW, and they preferred staying at WDW, even though they did enjoy the Universal parks. For the trip that we have been planning for December, things are different. They tell me that WDW just isn't the same any more. There are so many closed attractions, it is often dirty, some of the CMs just seem to lack that Disney magic, and it looks like the parks will be closing so early almost every night. They aren't quite old enough to go to PI on their own, and don't like the idea of going clubbing with their parents either. There are only so many things they can do, and movies that they can see at DTD, so they are worried about what they can do in the evenings, if the parks are all closed early.

For past trips, they have always had great fun in helping to choose our WDW resort, but this time they could care less. We have only stayed off-site one time, and we all admitted that was our least favorite trip. However, this year they were asking if we could rent a condo or a house offsite for the December trip. They would rather not stay at a WDW resort. When I asked them why they would rather stay off-site, they couldn't really tell me. Just said that they really didn't care that much where we stayed. Actually, I think they could care less if we even go, although they are not totally happy about canceling either. Something is missing this time.

Now these are the same kids who have always loved WDW. My daughter was such a Disney fan that she couldn't wait until she was in college so she could work at WDW through the college program. She spent all last year researching it, but after our last trip, she has never even mentioned it again. It's not that they think Disney is too 'babyish' for them now, they just don't feel the 'magic' anymore.

[YoHo]

TXDEB. I hope your following the USF boards as well, from what I've heard their cutbacks are as bad or worse then Disney.


I Have not, nor will I choose a car. As usual, I'm sitting astride a Harley darting in between all the other cars.

Right now I'm very concerned about the Parks.

[TXDeb]

Hey YoHo,
I have been wondering about Universal/IOA. I'll have to pop over there and see for myself how they are handling things.

Actually, a Harley sounds like the way to go. More fun than the cars, and easier to switch positons as more info becomes available!

I am a little more upbeat about things today. I do understand some of the cut-backs, but I question the wisdom of others, especially when considering the short-term benefits vs the long-term harm to customer trust and good will. I also disagree with Disney's lack of consistent and reliable info about the current changes. It's not fair to those already on site (or leaving this week), and it's certainly not good customer service.

Guess, I'm really still torn between car #2 and #3, but hoping that I may be able to move back to car #1 someday!

[YoHo]

The problem seems to be that almost nobody from out of state is going to Disney anyway. They can afford to do all this at the last moment, because as much as it sucks for those of us going, their really isn't anyone there anyway. its all weekenders.

[TowerTerror]

I am riding in the backseat of car #2. The magic has faded somewhat, but WDW is still my favorite vacationing spot. Some reasons for being in second car:

1. Cutting attendance hours.
2. Building cheap attractions in quantity instead of quality.
3. Closing attractions that need to stay open. (COP and Timekeeper)
4. Not Completing Theme Parks at least 85-90% before Opening Day.
5. Updating the Magic Kingdom. Last E-Ticket attraction was Splash Mountain.
6. Getting rid of E-Ticket night and Early Entry days.

I feel that Disney needs to sit back and think about what Walt would have done differently.

[Lesley]

Shoot, it appears I can't change my car preference.....but anyway...I am increasingly worried about WDW and can pretty much count myself in car 3 now.....I was waffling before. The magic seems to be crumbling before my eyes....those things TowerTerror just mentioned as influences for the second car choice have pushed me into car 3. It was fading a bit before (still had a great time, but some of the changes that were designed specifically to get more $ irked me...plus small lapses in cleanliness, friendliness, etc...) but now it has gone well beyond that.

[TiggerFreak]

Am I bummed out or what?
Just as our 1st trip home as DVC members draws near, a plethora of closings, cutbacks and cancellations.

I will be moving to car#2, but reserve the right to blithely fly, utilizing pixie dust augmentation, back to car#1 if trip to world next week turns out better than I now believe it will be.

Maybe if I take off those RoseColoredGlasses and put on some RayBans....

Are we going to need one of those empty Disney buses to take the place of car#2:D

[Lesley]

Tigger Freak, you can have my old seat in #2....I've hopped over to #3.

Still wishing I could be in car #1!

[Judge Doom]

I'm going to hop in Car 4. I was in car 3 but with all the closings and cheap replacments...I'm a DVC member too...I'll be putting my points up for sale this year

a. If your going to cut things out give us something else ie 20,000 leagues remains empty, Timekeeper empty, Cop empty etc...

b.poor comunication to your guests, we know all your times and events are subject to change...just tell us when you decide to cancel or change something.

c Disney has just turned into another theme park for me. I was planning on getting married at Disney but with the way things are now I find getting married in Disney and getting married at Six Flags are the same thing

d If the way you treat your guests is the same way you treat your castmembers its lucky you have any left. Eisner gets himself a huge bonus living in a mansion somewhere and you have the guts to ask the hourly CMs to cut their hours?

e Now that I think about it Disney is not a theme park any more. It's a mall with some rides.

f Don't tell me the economy is to blame. Japan right now has the highest unemployment rate yet Disney Sea is doing outstanding. Why because it's not a piece of junk ...California Adventure vs Disney Sea...you be the judge...

[ksdave]

I'm also between car #2 and #3. I spent two days at USF/IOA and 5 at WDW in May. If I had a chance to do it over, I would do at least three days at USF/IOA, maybe even four. It seems to my DW, DD (11), DS(9), and I that Disney is no longer the creative geniuses; Universal has taken that away and now Disney is just reacting. If you look at MIB at USF, then compare Buzz Lightyear, you will see what I mean. MIB is an awesome experience that hits all the senses. Buzz is just a poor attempt to copy MIB, using the same track and all as If You Had Wings. They couldn't even change the "tunnel" section!
I also agree with all the earlier posters that they must do something about the old 20,000 Leagues ride area. This area has been a gaping hole in MK for too long. If you are going to continue to raise ticket prices way beyond the rate of inflation as Disney has done the last ten years, you have to give us something new.
My trips to WDW in the 80's were always 5 days of all Disney. In the early 90's, they started to be 4-5 days at Disney and a day or two of USF. Now they are going to a 50-50 split. If I listen to my kids (and my head, not my heart), my trips in the next few years will probably be 4 days at HRH at USF/IOA and a couple of WDW days staying offsite.
Hey Disney, guess where my money is going?

[raidermatt]

Car #1 here. Cutting hours, especially given the current situation, does not have anything to do with magic. DL used to be closed on Mondays, back in the "good old days". And that's with no other park or Disney attractions.

EE? Have no use for it. It just turns that park into the most crowded one for that day. E-Nights? Nice idea, but if they were being introduced for the first time, we'd be hearing an uproar from the doomsayers because there was a fee. "This should be a perk for resort guests", they would roar.

Poor service? Been to both WDW and DL Resort in the last 14 months, and were treated very well. Any special requests were accomodated, and were never treated rudely or even indifferently. CMs are pleasant, and often do more than we even ask them to.

AK is a great park. Sure it can get better, but its already better than any other animal park. The theming is great and the shows are strong. Its a big plus to the resort, and its clear that more will be added, though its at a slower pace than originally planned.

The DL resort has been transformed from a single park and hotel, into a true resort destination. The GC is beautiful, and the service is top-notch. DL used to be a park bordered by city streets, with a hotel across the street. Land limitations keep it from being the escape that WDW is, but considering its in the heart of SoCal suburbia, what Disney has accomplished is amazing. DCA is not perfect, but its still themed very well, and improvements have already been made. (DL was also HEAVILY criticized when it opened).

I'm concerned about the animation division (non-Pixar), though we've seen these lulls before. But the parks will be fine. The events of 9/11 merely accelerated the economic downturn that we were in the midst of. Disney will weather the storm and be just fine. For those who rely on EE to provide magic, it will return when there are enough guests to justify it.

[Leota]

This infrequent visitor to the RB is squeezing into car #2....near the back, because I'm sadly on the verge of car #3.....
The final straw which pushed me over the edge was the closing of CoP right before Walt's b-day - if there was ever such a glaring denial of Walt Disney in Walt Disney World !!! Kinda proves the point that the current management has absolutely no concern or regard for Walt's vision....
The quality of the CM's has been on a steady decline, which is sad to me, there are still some great CM's there & the CMs have always been such a huge part of the Magic for us....
The cuts in hours have been a slap in the face, coming so soon after ticket price increases....
"Hey, Got a great idea - we'll charge folks more, close a few attractions & decrease hours!"
E-Nights, were something we enjoyed, even tho we were kind of po'd at the fact we had to pay for something we used to get for free. I remember going as a kid & MK was open til midnight every night.
The Magic is in serious jeapordy IMHO. I'm hoping that a senior imagineer wrests power from the magic-impaired bean-counters that seem to be at the wheel.....
Yes, there is still enough Magic for this family to keep coming back, but too often of late, do we mutter the words "you never used to see ______ happen here!" or "boy, I sure do miss_____"

[ArcticWildMan]

Make room for me in car #3 (car #4 is a tad too extreme for me, I'll just visit less frequently). Having just returned from WDW a few weeks ago, I'm planning next years vacation...and it's not going to be WDW. A lot of my disappointment probably stems from a lousy experience at the Swan, but I want to see park hours increased again, EE days restored, shows opened back up, etc...before I spend thousands of my hard earned dollars at WDW again.

[year2late]

My heart tells me to hop in car #1.
If anything, my Disney attendence is on the rise!I also have my rose tinted glasses on when it comes to my Disney vacations.

[eddiewells]

I am in car #2....I wish there was a car #2.5 though. Disney seriously needs to take the TIME and MONEY to perfect the parks they have now, and to make a new one. I'm not sure what the new one would be, but Disney needs one to bring back the publicity it had before AK opened. I mean, in 2000 you would see about 5 Disney commercials a day on TV. Now? I have seen 1 commercial the entire year of 2002!!! I'm not worried about "improving" Disney for myself. Disney could stay the exact same and I would continue to visit it as often (if not more often) for years and years to come. However, I feel Disney needs all these improvements so everyone ELSE will start coming.

One thing I do feel might be the cause of this is the 2000 celebration. 2000 was the year everyone and their mother came to WDW. I went in July and it was extremely crowded. When you look at it that way, everyone went in 2000 and might not have the money to go back for a couple years. I know we didn't. We used to go every 4 years (now we're cutting it to every 2-3 years). So I feel if Disney gets the publicity it needs, 2003 and 2004 will be big years. If everyone has the same idea as my family, you can expect an attendence equaling close to that of the year 2000 these next couple years.

[dvcHammer]

Car #1 and hoping that I won't have to get into car #2

I first consider the fact that we are having this discussion at all as evidence that there is plenty of magic left. If the magic was gone, we'd all log off and go elsewere. Is Disney not as magic as it may have been in the past - maybe.... from the point of view that as the WDW experience has changed, and so have we. I've been going since 1972 and have seen the changes, but for the most part - how much of it that we are getting older and seeing the past through the haze of remembering the "good old days".

Some rides I really liked have come and gone. When i was a kid I liked Misson to the Moon even. A great ride for it's day. But no one is asking for that to return. The CoP was a great ride and true experience - in the 1970's and even into the 80's, but now it is getting tired and time to let it go. We love it because of the memories, but it will not hold the interest of todays kids and I've ridden it on days when the park was packed and CoP was running half full. 20,000 was a great ride, as a kid I loved it, but it was always such as a long wait to board and I have to admit deep down that it had become dated and was time for it to go. I do hope that something will be put in it's place someday. While we're at it, bring back the "Wings of Man"......... Can't we all make a list of the attractions we really miss? We all have our list of the changes that we disagree with and some things that really have ticked us off in the last few years.

BUT......This year we're bringing a family with us that has never been for a week at WDW with their 5 year old. Can't you just see the eyes of a 5 year old lighting up going to the MK for the first time? The "magic" may have changed for those of us that have years of history, but it will be the same magic that we once knew in the eyes of that child. I can't wait to once again see WDW from a childs viewpoint again. I hope it will make me slow down and see everything again for the first time.

Disney may not be the place that we remember from our memories... what can ever live up to the filter of our memories?.. The greatest theme park and vacation resort in the world may not be eveything it once was, but it is still a magic place. Bad decisions have been made in some areas and I hope to see some changes for the better happen. But the change in the corporate culture is in part a reflection the the change of the overall culture of the country.

I'm counting the days till we get there again. For me anyway, I can still find pixie dust in abundence. Sorry for rambling :)

[yepod]

I found this thread today & found it amazing that the grumbling had started 6 months ago!
I would have voted for car #1.5 in July.
We had been to WDW 9/2000 & loved it.
I was'nt aware of the issues until planning our trip in 12/01.
Boy what a change in my opinion in such a short time.
After returning my DW & myself both vote for car #3.
We have seriously talked about staying offsite (we loved onsite in 2000 but not in 2001)!
We will definately be doing US & IOA for our first time when we return in October.

Disney needs to get their act together.
I truly think Walt is rolling after we experienced his Birthday with mediocre (at best) feelings.

Replace Eisner with someone who can take Walt's vision FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[raidermatt]

yepod- I'm curious to know what went wrong on your trip that has made you become pessimistic about Disney's future. Most of the grublings on the other boards (note-Rumors board excepted) has come from those who have not been in the last 6 months or more, and are reacting to the word "cuts". Most of the trip reports are actually very positive, noting that while hours are shorter than they were last year, so are the lines.

You obviously had a different experience. What happened?

[JeffH]

Replace Eisner with someone who can take Walt's vision FORWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Walt had his way there would be no Magic Kingdom (he was talked into that by the bankers), no Epcot (as we know it), no MGM/Disney Studios, no Animal Kingdom...it wouldn't even be called WDW. Walt's 'vision' was that the area would be an Experimental Community of Tommorrow, no theme parks.
If anything, the Disney organization (Eisner) has moved more towards Walt's vision, lately, with the addition of all the rooms to WDW.
WDW has never been better.
Just because they are not opening a new theme park or adding a new e-ride attraction at each park THIS year doesn't take away from what it is and still has to offer. The ONLY difference is the cutbacks in hours and shows as a result of the reduced attendance. We are coming off a boom time (Millenium Celebration), where Disney increased hours and shows and added a new theme park and many new attractions and live shows...and the highest attendance ever!

[pgesler]

At least for me and my family - Disney has lost its magic.

My wife was hurt on a ride at WDW which required over $3,000 in Doctor and Hospital bills in the week following the injury. While we were at WDW and while my wife was confined to her bed in our room - all that WDW would say is that we could not prove thatit was the fault of WDW and we were on our own.

Later a Orlando area Law firm told us that WDW was know in the Legal community as Floridas biggest SOB and that it isn't worth the hastle to prove their liability.

When it comes to Operational Excellence - Disney needs to read its own book!

[mmouse52]

I just hopped into car number 3.. First trip was June 1972 (20th birthday). Been down twice a year since. Lost the magic after becoming a cm at tds. When you start to see everything as a money making scheme magic gets lost. It all started with a mouse but someone got rid of the mouse for a bear...Had a trip planned for July and just cancelled it for a new location... Need to break away for a while.

[dznefan]

All things change over time but the changes in Disney are coming faster and faster and not for the better. Though the economy has had the most immediate effect on things, changes were occuring before this. It seems all the little extra goodies(choc. candies after your meal)had already started to disappear. Park maintenance was going down. Last trip 12/01 some of the restrooms were filthy. Attractions are becoming worn looking and in dire need of upgrading. Landscaping and maintenance have slipped also. Some of the problems seem to stem from the company vending out services rather than keeping it in the Disney family. There is still a thrill when we walk under the station at MK but as one member posted there is something ominous lurking over things also.

Also hate to see things such as the carnival area added to Dinoland. Avoiding this kind of park was one of the reasons Walt Disney wanted to build Disneyland. And what was that mess they made of Imagination?

Disney stores no longer have the quality they had when opened. Disney closed the DisneyQuest in Chicago even though there always seemed to be lines.

There are still instances of Pixie Dust, usually brought about by one of the cast members, who still have the old Disney spirit.

Did we really need a hockey team, a baseball team, a sports complex(remember that little law suit) or a less than stellar t.v. network.

One hopes management can turn things around and not turn the company into a takeover target as it was once before. What a sad world it would be without our happy mouse.

[dznefan]

All things change over time but the changes in Disney are coming faster and faster and not for the better. Though the economy has had the most immediate effect on things, changes were occuring before this. It seems all the little extra goodies(choc. candies after your meal)had already started to disappear. Park maintenance was going down. Last trip 12/01 some of the restrooms were filthy. Attractions are becoming worn looking and in dire need of upgrading. Landscaping and maintenance have slipped also. Some of the problems seem to stem from the company vending out services rather than keeping it in the Disney family. There is still a thrill when we walk under the station at MK but as one member posted there is something ominous lurking over things also.

Also hate to see things such as the carnival area added to Dinoland. Avoiding this kind of park was one of the reasons Walt Disney wanted to build Disneyland. And what was that mess they made of Imagination?

Disney stores no longer have the quality they had when opened. Disney closed the DisneyQuest in Chicago even though there always seemed to be lines.

There are still instances of Pixie Dust, usually brought about by one of the cast members, who still have the old Disney spirit.

Did we really need a hockey team, a baseball team, a sports complex(remember that little law suit) or a less than stellar t.v. network.

One hopes management can turn things around and not turn the company into a takeover target as it was once before. What a sad world it would be without our happy mouse.

[BRERALEX]

a little late for this and i havent posted in awhile but just need to say

I FEEL THE MAGIC IS FADING AND NO HOPE OF IT COMMING BACK

i used to be optomistic but i dont think thats even logical any longer

[ksdave]

Hey, BRERALEX, you should come back the the Parks Game thread. Everybody keeps asking what happened to you.

[BRERALEX]

hey that made my week ksdave my week has been really bad those kind words make me feel alot better (wisdom tooth missed two days of school and i need a new alternator for my truck!!!!!!!)

ill try to add over there but you guys have some really really tough questions but that thread does help with remembering the magic alot! thanx

[mattjs]

Car 1

A bold announcement on AK would solidify that. A weak one would get me thinking about car 2 without the "very optomistic".

[Laurabearz]

I am jumping in at the tail end of this but wanted to vote... I voted the Magic is as strong as ever....

WHY? Well most of the recent cutbacks havent effected us... The biggies........ shorter park hours, EE,and E-nights dont play a role in our current WDW experince....... Our kids are too little to get up that early or stay up that late.... .... we are at the parks at opening and leave by noon..... Back to our wonderful DVC resorts to relax.... maybe hitting Epcot for an early dinner.... I will even go so far as saying (right now) we prefer the Charcater Caravan to EE!! :earseek:
The fact that Disney has not lower prices to reflect the shorter hours, doesnt bother us. We wouldnt take advantage of them anyway.... so that point, for us, is moot.... Does that make sense?

Could the place use some paint here and there... YEs... BUT the only place it bothered me was under the bridge from YC/BC to MGM. Again no biggy.... they got a lot to paint... they will get around to it.

I guess we have lucked out....We dont require a lot from WDW these days to be totally feel the Magic. And I know in a few years, as the ecomony grows, Disney will be back better than ever!

When my family and I are at WDW there is still no other feeling that matches it...... My three year old knows nothing of paint chippping, or the ramafications of Dinoland.... she sees WDW through the eyes of a child.... and it is perfect!

The only thing that hurts is not having CoP open all the time..... I love that ride!

Oh and I would vote for Monorail expansion!!! But we dont mind the busses.... the kids think it is the first and last RIDE of the day!!! :D

[bavaria]

OK I'm climbing out of car 4 into car 3! I went to the Disney store today to check out pass prices - I've gone six months now without a DL or WDW visit, and both AP's expired for the first time since 1993 back in January......

But I will admit that I am going through withdrawal, even with all of the cutbacks. Even the CM at the Disneystore today raved about Universal and how they do things right!

[eeyore0062]

Sign me up for carpool number 1... I guess I am diehard Disney all the way!

[taysalyn]

I'm in car # 1 but leaning out with hands on car # 2. I love Disney. I love the way I feel when I think about walking down main street at WDW. I love the way I feel when watching a disney movie. I love receiving the Disney catalog. I ADORE my disney pin collection and I love the idea of sitting on my balcony at either the Contemporary resort or onboard the Magic.

I don't know much about the business end of Disney. To be honest, I don't know Eisner and what he has done or has in store for Disney. I believe in my heart that WDW will continue to do what it has done for many years and that is to light up a child's face once he/she has seen Mickey Mouse. And to light up an adult's face once he/she has walked down main street at either park. There is just something about the parks that maintain the magic. I can't put my finger on it, but maybe that is the way it is meant to be. You don't always know how a magician does what he does, you just like what he does. I like what Disney does and will continue to go year after year. (as long as my DH lets me)