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sweetp267
05-24-2004, 02:00 PM
Hi, I'm not trying to start a smoker-nonsmoker war out there. I just have one question out there for all of our members who smoke or have one or more family member that smokes, why after two trips this past May and Jan couldn't to save our lives get a smoking room? We stayed at the VWL in Jan and at OKW in May and could not get a smoking room whatsoever. I see all of these post about members getting stuck with a smoking room when they stated over and over that they did not want a smoking room for health or family reasons. Why do we get the shake of the head from the CM when checking in that they are all gone during our stay? My wife does smoke but not a whole lot. She just wants the luxury, (that's what it seems like to her) to smoke wherever she wants in her own room whenever she wants. It seems that they are shrinking the amount of rooms more and more until there won't be any left at all.

You non-smokers out there I respect and understand your feelings about smoking and getting a room with that "smell" but some people just can't quit for a week especially on vacation and I have the feeling that we have more members out there than we think that do smoke and get the shaft every time they check into their resort.

Deesknee
05-24-2004, 02:16 PM
I can relate to your wife wanting to smoke on vacation when and where she would like.

I recently stopped smoking (17mnts now) and would probably love a cigarette on vacation even still. I find it extremely relaxing. I hope I don't start but wouldn't be surprised if i did start on vaca (although my family would be upset).

As a reformed smoker (atleast today) I also understand the smell that smoking can leave behind well after the smoker is gone.

Our last vaca to OKW we were given a nonsmoker room. When I went to the desk after being in the room (and looking for an ashtray) and asked for a smoking room they were more than happy to ablige. I don't know if I had requested one or not when making my ressies. I probably wouldn't have thought of it as I didn't smoke that much at that time. I think that they were afraid I would smoke in the room anyway so wanted to make sure they gave us a smoking room. ( I probably would have smoked on the balcony if at all.) But I must say I totally enjoyed sitting on the balcony (of my smoking room) in the a.m having my coffee and smoke to start my day before anyone else got up. At that time that was the most relaxing time of my vacation. I was certainly grateful the OKW could accomadate. Just my .02 worth.
::MickeyMo ::MinnieMo :earsboy: :earsboy: :earsgirl: :earsgirl:

sweetp267
05-24-2004, 02:23 PM
Well Deesknee, I think you lucked out on that request. I thought that getting a smoking room would be a breeze going by the bulk of the members who seem to be non-smokers, but no matter how hard I tried at the front desk the basically said in the nice wat the we were SOL. Let's hope that on our next trip we get what we want.

FLYNZ4
05-24-2004, 02:46 PM
As a new owner, I was really surprised that DVC allowed smoking at all. The timeshare/condo industry trend has been moving strongly away from smoking as far as I can tell. I think it will only be a matter of time before smoking is prohibited from all indoor locations. I remember when we thought it was ridiculous to ban smoking on airline flights... but we do not give it a second thought anymore.

I do think that designated smoking areas should be set up in locations that are convenient, for the smokers, while not subjecting non-smokers to second hand smoke.

/Jim

RoyalCanadian
05-24-2004, 02:53 PM
I must agree with FLYNZ4. I too don't want to see this degenerate into a smoker/non-smoker's rights issue -- it's more of an economic issue. I am a member of the Board of Directors of a non-profit seniors' apartment building -- it costs us thousands of dollars to prep an apartment between tenants, and that cost is multiplied when the previous tenant has been a smoker. I can't imagine what the renovation cost of a DVC unit must be when furniture is included.

Sabor
05-24-2004, 02:57 PM
I always Request at OKW
1) Smoking
2) Near Turtle Pond

We have always gotten bldg 41
WE always book at 11 months if that has any factor.

If they ban smoking from every building , I guess it will be time to sell my DVC.

I am just waiting for the day when it becomes illegal to smoke in your own home with the windows open!

Nick@ VB+OKW
05-24-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
[B] I think it will only be a matter of time before smoking is prohibited from all indoor locations. [ B]

http://www.animationlibrary.com/Animation11/Everything_Else/Smoking/No_smoking_2.gif

I agree with the above post by FLYNZ4. Hopefully the sooner the better.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-24-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
As a new owner, I was really surprised that DVC allowed smoking at all. The timeshare/condo industry trend has been moving strongly away from smoking as far as I can tell. I think it will only be a matter of time before smoking is prohibited from all indoor locations. I remember when we thought it was ridiculous to ban smoking on airline flights... but we do not give it a second thought anymore.

I do think that designated smoking areas should be set up in locations that are convenient, for the smokers, while not subjecting non-smokers to second hand smoke.

/Jim

Hotels, Inns etc, yes, timeshares NO they have not been veering away from it. It is considered a second home. All indoor areas, yes public ones, but, no private rooms.


Personally, I see NO reason in the world why I sould have to leave my unit to have a cigarette. Keep the smoking designated units and don't worry what goes on inside them.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-24-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Sabor
I always Request at OKW
1) Smoking
2) Near Turtle Pond

We have always gotten bldg 41
WE always book at 11 months if that has any factor.

If they ban smoking from every building , I guess it will be time to sell my DVC.

I am just waiting for the day when it becomes illegal to smoke in your own home with the windows open!


My one request is a smoking units. I sometimes request a certain building, and that one is usually 41 and I never reserve more than 6 months out. So far, so good.

FLYNZ4
05-24-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Hotels, Inns etc, yes, timeshares NO they have not been veering away from it. It is considered a second home. All indoor areas, yes public ones, but, no private rooms.


Personally, I see NO reason in the world why I sould have to leave my unit to have a cigarette. Keep the smoking designated units and don't worry what goes on inside them.
Gail,

My comment is not one about smokers rights... it has more to do with industry trends. One condo association that I own (WorldMark/Trendwest) is in the process of banning smoking in all 50 locations worldwide. Up until now, they have had a "voluntary non-smoking policy" asking owners to smoke outside. As of next month... it will be mandatory. When the membership was asked to vote (non-binding) on the issue during the last ballot election, there was an overwhelming response to ban interior smoking.

I am simply predicting that over time, I expect this to become the norm... not the exception. Somehow, I expected that Disney would have been a leader in this area.

/Jim

Nick@ VB+OKW
05-24-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
When the membership was asked to vote (non-binding) on the issue during the last ballot election, there was an overwhelming response to ban interior smoking.

:scratchin ...........very intresting. Do I see a vote coming from DVC members......

BWVDee
05-24-2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
I am simply predicting that over time, I expect this to become the norm... not the exception. Somehow, I expected that Disney would have been a leader in this area.

/Jim
Not only was Disney not the leader in this area; my prediction is Disney will never eliminate smoking rooms entirely. They get too many guests, especially from overseas, that are smokers.
Personally I think they do not have enough smoking rooms which causes the problems with guests MANY times being told by CMs to smoke in the room anyhow, causes problems with guests smoking on the balcony (where it is prefectly allowed in ALL WDW rooms) and having non smokers complain that they can smell the smoke from 50 ft away and through layers of concrete (??) and causes the problems that people just smoke on their own in a non smoking room even without the front desk CMs permission.
I am amazed when I read about all these people that get stuck with smoking rooms. Since the vast majority of rooms are non smoking it is really strange that people that request non smoking get smoking rooms, yet those that request smoking rooms can't get them!
We have had smokers in our traveling group and have requested a non smoking room and have been told there were none? We have also been told to smoke in a non smoking room (no one did) and have been told it is fine to smoke on any WDW balcony.
I especially think BWV made a very big mistake by changing all boardwalk villas into non smoking villas. First of all it is not giving the same choices of room selections to all members and also it will now accomplish nothing but having more people smoking in a non smoking room and on the balconies--because they want a boardwalk view.
Personally it does not really matter to me, because either a smoking or a non smoking room is fine with me--and I have asthma--and I have never experienced some of the over the top stuff that people post on these boards! But I really feel some of the really dramatic anti smokers are pushing to the point that they better watch what they wish for. There are always going to be a lot of smokers at WDW and although I highly, highly doubt WDW will ever eliminate all smoking rooms, I know they will never stop people from smoking on their balconies. Consequently if by a very slim chance there were no smoking rooms/villas to be had---there is going to be an awful lot of guests smoking on their balconies and I really doubt the "I can smell smoke from the villa 2 floors below and through 8 ft of concrete", is going to hold water. And I also think this will cause a lot of people to smoke in non smoking rooms. Smokers are DVC members the same as anyone else and they have the same right to enjoy their villa as anyone else does--if this is taken away, I could see people getting annoyed to the point of smoking in their villa anyway. It already happens now.
As far as Disney charging extra to clean a non smoking room that was smoked in----I again doubt it. They don't charge members/guests that have kids that do distruction to the villas, nor do they charge the members/guests that steal kitchenware etc from the villas, nor do they charge guests for the extra cleaning that needs to be done to a villa/room that has a sickening, strong and lingering odor of perfume or strange cooking odors, etc.--then I highly doubt they will or in fairness could charge for cleaning a non smoking room that has been smoked in.

Dean
05-24-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Hotels, Inns etc, yes, timeshares NO they have not been veering away from it. It is considered a second home. All indoor areas, yes public ones, but, no private rooms.


Personally, I see NO reason in the world why I sould have to leave my unit to have a cigarette. Keep the smoking designated units and don't worry what goes on inside them. SOME of the Marriott is also going toward TOTAL nonsmoking for newer resorts including Grande Ocean in HH. I have no problem with having smoking buildings or areas or with people smoking in those units or on the balconies. I have major problems with anyone smoiking in a non smoking unit or on the balcony of a non smoking unit. EVEN if told it was ok by a CM, who should be fired on the spot. There should be a hefty fine if one smokes in a non smoking unit. And DVC should book them directly rather than smoking/non smoking being a request.

Still, the political climate in FL would suggest that total non smoking is not unlikely for hotels and the like and that timeshare will likely follow suite as it keeps maint costs down.

BWVDee
05-24-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Dean
And DVC should book them directly rather than smoking/non smoking being a request.

I totally agree with you on this point.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-24-2004, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Dean
SOME of the Marriott is also going toward TOTAL nonsmoking for newer resorts including Grande Ocean in HH. I have no problem with having smoking buildings or areas or with people smoking in those units or on the balconies. I have major problems with anyone smoiking in a non smoking unit or on the balcony of a non smoking unit. EVEN if told it was ok by a CM, who should be fired on the spot. There should be a hefty fine if one smokes in a non smoking unit. And DVC should book them directly rather than smoking/non smoking being a request.

Still, the political climate in FL would suggest that total non smoking is not unlikely for hotels and the like and that timeshare will likely follow suite as it keeps maint costs down.

Dean,
I, too, have issues with people smoking in non smoking units, I have NO issues with them smoking outside.
When you start to fine the parents of destructive children, slobs, theives, etc. then, and only then, would I back a fine for smoking in a non smoking room.
I agree about the booking directly.
We have a very strong non smoking law here in CT. Yet, the hotels etc. still have their smoking rooms and non smoking rooms.
I really don't think Disney will ban smoking entirely.
Maint. costs don't necessarily rise because of smokers. They rise because people are slobs and don't give a hoot what they do away from home.
The "go ahead and smoke" in a non smoking unit has been in practice since the very beginning. On our first trip in Sept. 92 we had booked a GV, the only one available when we checked in was a non smoking unit, we declined and waited until 6pm for the smoking one to open, even though we were told they would provide ashtrays for us in the non smoking unit. I think this is a situation where DVC puts on a good face to please the non smokers and does a double face and pleases the smokers. It has been done since the beginning and I doubt it will change.
Don't blame the CM, blame the management.
The decrease in smoking buildings is going to make this situation much worse.

Nick@ VB+OKW
05-24-2004, 08:49 PM
Gail

I say let all DVC members vote on it.......and the majority wins.http://mindscraps.com/s/otn/happy/11zwinky.gif

GAIL HAYDEN
05-24-2004, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Nick@ VB+OKW
Gail

I say let all DVC members vote on it.......and the majority wins.http://mindscraps.com/s/otn/happy/11zwinky.gif

sure, just like the slide.

Dean
05-24-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Dean,
I, too, have issues with people smoking in non smoking units, I have NO issues with them smoking outside.
When you start to fine the parents of destructive children, slobs, theives, etc. then, and only then, would I back a fine for smoking in a non smoking room.
I agree about the booking directly.
We have a very strong non smoking law here in CT. Yet, the hotels etc. still have their smoking rooms and non smoking rooms.
I really don't think Disney will ban smoking entirely.
Maint. costs don't necessarily rise because of smokers. They rise because people are slobs and don't give a hoot what they do away from home.
The "go ahead and smoke" in a non smoking unit has been in practice since the very beginning. On our first trip in Sept. 92 we had booked a GV, the only one available when we checked in was a non smoking unit, we declined and waited until 6pm for the smoking one to open, even though we were told they would provide ashtrays for us in the non smoking unit. I think this is a situation where DVC puts on a good face to please the non smokers and does a double face and pleases the smokers. It has been done since the beginning and I doubt it will change.
Don't blame the CM, blame the management.
The decrease in smoking buildings is going to make this situation much worse. Gail, I beg to differ on the cost issue. While it's true that anyone who mistreats a unit may increase the cost, research suggests that smoking is the largest defineable issue. Same for cars where smoking cars tend to bring less than non smoking cars. Anyone who trashes the unit should be charged, PERIOD. IMO, smoking in a non smoking unit is nothing short of criminal. If management says it's ok to smoke in a non smoking unit, they too should be fired.

Pa@okw95
05-25-2004, 06:19 AM
My wife smokes and for years she had never smoked inside except at the casinos where it is allowed. AT OKW and other DVC resorts there is not a problem with smoking because she can go outside on the porch to smoke.. I think they have cut back at OKW with the smoking rooms but I am not sure. I can not sleep in a room where someone has been smoking so I would never take a room that someone smoked in. The trend is towrd less smoking rooms-my wife bought a car that had no ash tray or lighter in it-can you believe that. Things are changing.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-25-2004, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Pa@okw95
My wife smokes and for years she had never smoked inside except at the casinos where it is allowed. AT OKW and other DVC resorts there is not a problem with smoking because she can go outside on the porch to smoke.. I think they have cut back at OKW with the smoking rooms but I am not sure. I can not sleep in a room where someone has been smoking so I would never take a room that someone smoked in. The trend is towrd less smoking rooms-my wife bought a car that had no ash tray or lighter in it-can you believe that. Things are changing.

Hondas, for one, do not have ashtrays or lighters. It is an option, one I paid for.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-25-2004, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by Dean
Gail, I beg to differ on the cost issue. While it's true that anyone who mistreats a unit may increase the cost, research suggests that smoking is the largest defineable issue. Same for cars where smoking cars tend to bring less than non smoking cars. Anyone who trashes the unit should be charged, PERIOD. IMO, smoking in a non smoking unit is nothing short of criminal. If management says it's ok to smoke in a non smoking unit, they too should be fired.

I feel sure that the maint. of all units is examined before we are accessed for it. Some smoke, some don't. We pay for the ones that smoke as well as those that don't.
Just like we will pay for the new slide that some will use and some will not. Neither, is a necessity, although, some will argue that point. They are, however, activities that are enjoyed.

idratherbeinwdw
05-25-2004, 12:26 PM
"I am just waiting for the day when it becomes illegal to smoke in your own home with the windows open!"

Actually it is illegal---oh you mean CIGARETTES! (VBG) :crazy:

BarbOKW
05-25-2004, 01:07 PM
I think it's just a matter of time before smokers are charged for smoking in a non-smoking room. When I was at the California Adventure, the entire hotel is non-smoking and they informed us at check in and had a notice in the room that their would be charge for smoking in the room. I don't remember how much it was, but it was a lot. That was the first time I've seen anything like that but I've been told that a lot of hotels are starting to charge for smoking in non-smoking rooms.

Kingzoo
05-25-2004, 02:04 PM
I have always been amazed that people who smoke don't have any consideration for those around them.
- First of all, they take smoking as a license to litter - don't they know that when they throw out their butts that that is littering and they are "litter bugs" - what if I took gum out of my mouth each time I walked up to building and tossed in on the ground outside the building. Someone has to clean up after their mess.
- Second - the maintenance in the smoking rooms has to be more as walls, carpets and linens are discolored and have shorter lives.
- Third, It does reduce the quality of my vacation as I have to smell people who smoke - even if they stay inside - gues what - it still smells when they come out - as do you....Stop smoking for a few daus and get on an elevator with someone who does - you will know exactly what I mean - they stink like ash trays.:mad:

FLYNZ4
05-25-2004, 02:22 PM
I really do not want to get into the "smoker's rights" discussion, and I especially do not want to get into discussions regarding the specific behavior of individual smokers...

Sticking to question about trends toward limiting smoking in condos... I am unconvinced that WDW is somehow unique because it has a lot of international visitors. You certainly could make the same arguments about international flights to Europe, and especially to Asia... and clearly smoking has been banned on those flights. Also, smokers have much more limited choices on a plane... they can't exactly "go outside" to have a cigarette. On Monday, I will be on a 14 hr flight with people pacing the isles and bitting their fingernails... but for the most part.... they will not be smoking.

I remain convinced that there will be a continuous trend toward increased restrictions in smoking... and I do not think it will be too long before smoking is banned in most condos. I have no idea how long it will take until DVC makes this decision... but I think it is just a matter of time. I think the tide is too strong for the situation to remain unchanged.

/Jim

BWVDee
05-25-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Kingzoo
- Third, It does reduce the quality of my vacation as I have to smell people who smoke - even if they stay inside - gues what - it still smells when they come out - as do you....Stop smoking for a few daus and get on an elevator with someone who does - you will know exactly what I mean - they stink like ash trays.:mad:
Having to deal with some of the very bratty kids that scream, shout, run and make a total disturbance of themselves while their idiotic parents stand idly by and think they are so cute--THEY ARE NOT!; also ruins the quality of my vacation. But we all have to learn to deal with others both at WDW and in other places. I will pick being next to a smoker over being next to some of the brats and their clueless parents, that I have encountered in WDW, anyday of the week.
BTW, I do like children, have my own (now grown) and was a teacher for many years. I like children but can not stand children that are spoiled brats and unfortunately you do run into a very large number of them in WDW, especially at the deluxe resorts.
Different things ruin the quality of different people's vacations. For me having to smell someone's cigarette who may be next to me at the pool, etc., is a lot less disturbing than listening to a whining, screaming brat that is at the pool.

BWVDee
05-25-2004, 02:23 PM
Sorry, double post.

FLYNZ4
05-25-2004, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by BWVDee
For me having to smell someone's cigarette who may be next to me at the pool, etc., is a lot less disturbing than listening to a whining, screaming brat that is at the pool.
BWVDee,

I am willing to go out on a limb here... but I am willing to bet 10:1 odds that Disney will ban smoking before they ban kids.

BTW, I also agree with your comments about how unruly kids can spoil a time for all. I wish there was some reasonable way to deal with it... but I have never figured that one out! I guess that is why all of our vacation time is not spent at WDW.

/Jim

BWVDee
05-25-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
I really do not want to get into the "smoker's rights" discussion, and I especially do not want to get into discussions regarding the specific behavior of individual smokers...

Sticking to question about trends toward limiting smoking in condos... I am unconvinced that WDW is somehow unique because it has a lot of international visitors. You certainly could make the same arguments about international flights to Europe, and especially to Asia... and clearly smoking has been banned on those flights. Also, smokers have much more limited choices on a plane... they can't exactly "go outside" to have a cigarette. On Monday, I will be on a 14 hr flight with people pacing the isles and bitting their fingernails... but for the most part.... they will not be smoking.

I remain convinced that there will be a continuous trend toward increased restrictions in smoking... and I do not think it will be too long before smoking is banned in most condos. I have no idea how long it will take until DVC makes this decision... but I think it is just a matter of time. I think the tide is too strong for the situation to remain unchanged.

/Jim
Taking a flight no matter how long it is, is VERY different than someone staying for a week or more in their vacation timeshare. Just a tad less space, air etc in the plane then there is in a 2 br villa!
Also when many of the DVC members who are smokers bought into DVC, they bought into with the knowledge that they could smoke in the comfort of their villas. Eliminating all smoking rooms will take away something that was in place when they bought. They have every right to enjoy their DVC as much as any other member does. ALL DVC members were aware of the fact that there were smoking DVC villas and that smoking is allowed on all balconies and at all WDW pools. It obviously did not bother you when you bought!
Those people that bought the plane ticket for your flight on Mon bought the ticket knowing that there was no smoking on the flight and this is what they are getting.

BWVDee
05-25-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
BWVDee,

I am willing to go out on a limb here... but I am willing to bet 10:1 odds that Disney will ban smoking before they ban kids.

BTW, I also agree with your comments about how unruly kids can spoil a time for all. I wish there was some reasonable way to deal with it... but I have never figured that one out! I guess that is why all of our vacation time is not spent at WDW.

/Jim
I never said anything about banning kids, I am just saying what reduces the quality of my vacation.
BTW, I am willing to bet that WDW will not ever ban either kids or smoking. Hows that for going out on a limb? LOL!

Deemarch
05-25-2004, 02:42 PM
Hey, isn't there a "No Smoking" rule in the parks at WDW except for the designated areas? And that's outside. It must be a cleanliness issue.

Tiggeriffic
05-25-2004, 02:50 PM
Yes, there is no smoking except in designated areas at the parks. However, I have never seen it enforced.

Pa@okw95
05-25-2004, 03:20 PM
If there is a rule, there should not have to be a cop around to enforce it. People should follow the rules on their own. One day I was over at Toon Town, there is a place where they have slides for little kids and the celling is about 5 feet high. There is a sign clearly stating no on over a certain height allowed in.. My wife starts to walk in, I say to her adults are not allowed in there. Some guy who I did not see in there with his wife, chimes in, well there is no one here to enforce the rule, so I guess it is ok. The two adults were in the way of the little kids trying to enjoy the special area for them. My wife did not go in of course but the little child with us did. There are just too many people out there that think the rules are not for them--add to that the need and I mean need to smoke, my wife smokes, and you will have people breaking the smoking rules if they do not have a place to stay where smoking is allowed.

Deesknee
05-25-2004, 03:22 PM
How about alcohol???

Last few times we went to Epcot we were seated next to drinkers. Not a problem except when they began swearing and spilling there bears on my kids.

They are even allowed to walk around with alcohol during the food and wine expo I believe.

At best drinking alcohol in public can become an annoiance.

My point being, I believe we all have something that gets under our skin. smoking, drinking, destructive kids, swearing, rude adults. Ah if only I ran the parks LOL.

I think DVC and Disney in general seem to do a pretty good job considering the diversity of people they serve.

Just one reformed smoker/drinkers opinion.

wintergreen
05-25-2004, 03:40 PM
Goodness! After reading this thread, I think I'd better:

1) leave my smokes at home;
2) leave my unruly children at home; and
3) merely peruse the menus at the Food and Wine festival.

I wonder if anyone would be offended at my choice of shoes?

all5ofus
05-25-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Deesknee
How about alcohol???

Last few times we went to Epcot we were seated next to drinkers. Not a problem except when they began swearing and spilling there bears on my kids.


:eek: bears!

idratherbeinwdw
05-25-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by wintergreen
Goodness! After reading this thread, I think I'd better:

1) leave my smokes at home;
2) leave my unruly children at home; and
3) merely peruse the menus at the Food and Wine festival.

I wonder if anyone would be offended at my choice of shoes?

Maybe, what kind of shoes do you wear? ;)

(Thanks by the way, your post made me LOL for real)

Dean
05-25-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
I feel sure that the maint. of all units is examined before we are accessed for it. Some smoke, some don't. We pay for the ones that smoke as well as those that don't.
Just like we will pay for the new slide that some will use and some will not. Neither, is a necessity, although, some will argue that point. They are, however, activities that are enjoyed. Gail, the issue that there are multiple issues than can increase our dues is not in question. What is in question is that smoking is a defineable issue that has a significant impact on maintenance and the quality of life (not just vacations) for those that may or may not be in a room. I've gone on record as saying smoking rooms are fine with me and should be booked directly. If you don't get a smoking room, you should not be allowed to smoke in a non smoking one and/or should be charged handsomely, say $250 min.

To use the arguement that there are other, less defineable, issues that increase fees is the same as my teenagers when they say "but everyone else.....". The main differences are that smoking is a BIGGER ticket item and it's defineable. It's also a minority of people that if it's allowed to happen impacts other people's health in addition to one's own person and family. I don't care if anyone smokes but I don't want to smell it EVER and I don't want to pay in any way for the problems it causes, health or otherwise. Unfortunately at the present time, I am forced to endure both in one way or another but I'd like to minimize the impact.

Pa@okw95
05-25-2004, 04:57 PM
Walt never wanted them in his park, but it is not Walt's park anymore.

Maistre Gracey
05-25-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Pa@okw95
Walt never wanted them in his park, but it is not Walt's park anymore. That is precisely why there is no alcohol allowed in the Magic Kingdom to this day. :cool:

MG

Judique
05-25-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by wintergreen
Goodness! After reading this thread, I think I'd better:

1) leave my smokes at home;
2) leave my unruly children at home; and
3) merely peruse the menus at the Food and Wine festival.

I wonder if anyone would be offended at my choice of shoes?

Not offended, but possibly entertained! Check out badshoe.com and see if you qualify. j/k!
:earsgirl:

BWVDee
05-25-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Dean
Gail, the issue that there are multiple issues than can increase our dues is not in question. What is in question is that smoking is a defineable issue that has a significant impact on maintenance and the quality of life (not just vacations) for those that may or may not be in a room. I've gone on record as saying smoking rooms are fine with me and should be booked directly. If you don't get a smoking room, you should not be allowed to smoke in a non smoking one and/or should be charged handsomely, say $250 min.

To use the arguement that there are other, less defineable, issues that increase fees is the same as my teenagers when they say "but everyone else.....". The main differences are that smoking is a BIGGER ticket item and it's defineable. It's also a minority of people that if it's allowed to happen impacts other people's health in addition to one's own person and family. I don't care if anyone smokes but I don't want to smell it EVER and I don't want to pay in any way for the problems it causes, health or otherwise. Unfortunately at the present time, I am forced to endure both in one way or another but I'd like to minimize the impact.
Just curious..........but didn't you ever consider these things, BEFORE you bought a DVC membership in which you knew there were smoking and non smoking villas in every resort; that there was smoking allowed on all WDW balconies and all WDW pools etc.
I would think that the very real possiblity of EVER smelling smoke, etc., at a DVC villa would have entered into your decision making process; especially when considering the fact that all DVC resorts had both smoking and non smoking villas, etc., etc.,---- when you freely decided to purchase a membership!:confused:

Dean
05-25-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by BWVDee
Just curious..........but didn't you ever consider these things, BEFORE you bought a DVC membership in which you knew there were smoking and non smoking villas in every resort; that there was smoking allowed on all WDW balconies and all WDW pools etc.
I would think that the very real possiblity of EVER smelling smoke, etc., at a DVC villa would have entered into your decision making process; especially when considering the fact that all DVC resorts had both smoking and non smoking villas, etc., etc.,---- when you freely decided to purchase a membership!:confused: Absolutely, considered it at Grande Ocean also which didn't have non smoking units when I bought. They are going ALL non smoking as they redo the units this next 3 years. I assume you're going for the "if you don't like it, sell" approach, but I could be wrong. I prefer to work from the inside and hope for the best. Fortunately, things are continually moving in MY direction at the resorts I own. Besides, I stated what I hoped and wanted but realize it is not a total reality at present. However, with the political climate in FL and many places, it appears to be an attainable goal thank goodness.

Your not talking to a timeshare novice. I've been to many timeshares, owned many, bought and sold them over the past 15 years or so. I've owned as many as 10 weeks/contracts at one time with all different types of benefits and negatives. They all have negatives in one way or another. I do my homework before I buy but there are always surprises along the way.

Lyndarella
05-25-2004, 09:51 PM
We stayed at the VWL last week, and requested a smoking 1 BR. There are just TWO smoking 1 BR units there: #2540 and #2548. We checked in on Mon. and did not get one. I said that's OK, as I know (from reading here) that smoking is allowed on the balcony, and that's good enough. The CM said she would send us up an ashtray. Before we even reached our room, she left a message on our phone that said she was mistaken, and smoking is NOT allowed even on the balcony! So while we are talking this over, we notice that there is an ashtray on the shelf in the living room. Now I am really confused. I called the front desk for clarification and was then told that NO SMOKING on the balcony is the official WDW Resorts policy, but the unofficial policy is that you can smoke on your balcony unless someone complains!! Go figure!

GAIL HAYDEN
05-25-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Kingzoo
I have always been amazed that people who smoke don't have any consideration for those around them.
- First of all, they take smoking as a license to litter - don't they know that when they throw out their butts that that is littering and they are "litter bugs" - what if I took gum out of my mouth each time I walked up to building and tossed in on the ground outside the building. Someone has to clean up after their mess.
- Second - the maintenance in the smoking rooms has to be more as walls, carpets and linens are discolored and have shorter lives.
- Third, It does reduce the quality of my vacation as I have to smell people who smoke - even if they stay inside - gues what - it still smells when they come out - as do you....Stop smoking for a few daus and get on an elevator with someone who does - you will know exactly what I mean - they stink like ash trays.:mad:

I have always been amazed at the people who just plain litter, smokers or non smokers.
First of all, people who litter simply don't care.
FYI, not only smokers litter. That is a very lame reason.
And, way too many people spit their gum out on the ground. It is miserable to get out of shoes. I would rather walk on butts than gum, spit or dog poop.
They factor the cost into the maintenance of the buildings. They also factor the cost of destructive children and destructive adult non smokers.
They also factor the cost of the slide.
It is all factored and we all pay for things we will not use or disaprove of.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-25-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Deemarch
Hey, isn't there a "No Smoking" rule in the parks at WDW except for the designated areas? And that's outside. It must be a cleanliness issue.
safety too.

GAIL HAYDEN
05-25-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Maistre Gracey
That is precisely why there is no alcohol allowed in the Magic Kingdom to this day. :cool:

MG

Yep, figures, the one park where a good stiff drink could help. :)

Dean
05-26-2004, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by Lyndarella
I called the front desk for clarification and was then told that NO SMOKING on the balcony is the official WDW Resorts policy, but the unofficial policy is that you can smoke on your balcony unless someone complains!! That was my understanding also, though I haven't seen either in writing. Disney is notorious for not enforcing their rules whether it be occupancy, smoking, etc, unfortunately. As for park smoking, I've seen many people asked by CM to go to the smoking area if they were going to smoke.

jcanary
07-04-2004, 08:55 PM
I am dumb-founded now. Just returned from a trip to BCV. Our trip started off okay, not great. We went down with another family and would have liked to have been on the same floor, but we were one floor apart, no biggy. Our room was luckily non- smoking as I have a sever allergy and my daughter has asthma. Well as a treat for my daughter and our friends daughter I made a one night reservation in a studio and told them that because of my daughters asthma we needed a nonsmoking studio, simply because of medical reasons. Well guess what we got, a real, real bad smoking room. I opened the door and almost fell over. I immediately went to the phone in that room and called front desk, and in the 5 minutes that I talked to them on the phone in that room, my throat started closing up and I was having a hard time breathing. Luckily for us a family had just left early and they were cleaning that room and they would give it to us when it was done. so that was solved, however we never got that room until 7:30. the next day I went and asked for the manager, They brought our a lady named Desiree. She point blank told me that the request was on the reservation with the medical reason but we have to call 5 days before to verify that the non smoking request was for a real bad allergy to smoke. I could not believe it. I was also told when I checked on the room in the morning that it was nonsmoking, non handicapped, and on the same floor as us, atleast the latter two were true. I believe it was room 439. Beware!!! You may want to write, call, do anything you have to do to make sure that you will not have a vacation ruined because of a medical necessity request.

LoveToDisney
07-04-2004, 09:35 PM
Now I'm really scared. My throat would have been closing up exactly like yours if I had been given that room. We asked for non-smoking because of allergies and they put us on the 4th floor in a smoking optional room. We were fortunate because I think the previous tennants of our room had been non-smokers like us because we didn't smell anything nor get that tight feeling like one does with the smoke/chemical residue even when you can't "smell" it. Many advised that if I put "non-smoking medical" next time as the request, I would not have to worry about it happening again. Now, I wonder what's going to happen? Calling 5 days before to verify sounds weird. Why would that be different than when you first reserved? If you get more information, please do share. Thanks for reporting.

Sammie
07-04-2004, 10:15 PM
I am sorry to say I can't give you any encouraging info on this situation. Disney does not block nonsmoking for any reason. It is simply a request. They do their best to match the room to the request and medicals do get first dips on the NS rooms but if there are more requests than rooms you will not get one. Also we have gotten NS rooms only to find the previous guest had heavily smoked in it.

zulaya
07-05-2004, 06:51 AM
Call Member Services and get the info from them. Then call Member Satisfaction Manager and let him/her know about what happened to you and ask how it can be avoided in the future.

rocketriter
07-05-2004, 07:52 AM
Desiree is making up new rules. DVC does not want you calling the resorts about room requests under any circumstances, and MS doesn't want extra calls 5 days before, either. If your room is already noted as NS-Medical, this call couldn't possibly change anything. Complain to MS, say you lost a half day of your vacation dealing with this, and tell us if they offer any kind of make-good.

By the way, DVC really does have to honor a medical request. They'd be subject to lawsuit if they did not. There's nothing they can do about some bozo smoking in a non-smoking room, but if medical requests had no validity then their system would have no way of noting them as different from any other request.

cgcw
07-05-2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Sammie
I am sorry to say I can't give you any encouraging info on this situation. Disney does not block nonsmoking for any reason. It is simply a request. They do their best to match the room to the request and medicals do get first dips on the NS rooms but if there are more requests than rooms you will not get one. Also we have gotten NS rooms only to find the previous guest had heavily smoked in it.

This was our experience. We checked into BWV. My confirmation showed non-smoking for medical reasons. The CM told me that because we were the last family to check in that day (about 2pm) with this request, there were no more non-smoking rooms available and we would be assigned a smoking optional room. I said this was unacceptable.

The manager came along and said another manager was on her way up to the room as we spoke to verify that even though the room was smoking optional, there was no smoke smell to the room. The manager then came back and said he thought we should be fine in the room, if we'd be willing to take accept the room. Again, I stressed we needed non-smoking for medical reasons. The manager then said if we got to the room and there was a problem, they would "figure something out".

As it turned out, it must have been a LONG time since someone smoked in the room because we had no problems.

colleen costello
07-05-2004, 11:04 AM
It ticks me off that these managers don't seem to believe that respiratory problems are legitimate medical conditions. They seem to think that "if it doesn't stink TOO badly then you can take the room." My Mom has severe asthma and goes through a lot just to GET to Florida. Why should she risk a hospitalization just because the front desk mis-managed "who got what room?" If you tell them "medical reasons" then they darn sure need to save a smoke- free room. They certainly wouldn't tell a wheelchair guest "Sorry but all we have is upstairs and there is no elevator." Furthermore (and I know I risk attack here) I don't think ANY nonsmoking guest should EVER be shoved into a smoking room. If Disney wants to continue to offer smoking rooms, FINE -- that is their decision. But don't expect nonsmoking guests to suffer as a result. I would not accept a room that had a 2-foot pile of dog poop in the corner, would you? THAT is what a smoking room smells like to non-smokers! How about a dead cat under the bed? Now there's a nice smell... If I check in and they tell me, "Well, it's a dead cat room, but the dead cat hasn't been in there for a week, it doesn't smell THAT bad..." HELLO? No one wants to start thier vacation by fighting with a manager about why nonsmokers need nonsmoking rooms. If Holiday Inn Express and Quality Inn and Motel 6 can GUARANTEE nonsmoking rooms, how can DVC NOT? It's simply unacceptable.

rocketriter
07-05-2004, 11:08 AM
Make your feelings known to MS, and anybody they suggest that you also contact.

DebbieB
07-05-2004, 11:46 AM
WDW in general needs to come up with some way of reserving smoking/non-smoking rooms. With the current system, if they have 20 people checking in one day with non-smoking requests and the rooms available are 15 non-smoking and 5 smoking, 5 people are going to get stuck. There's no way out of it, they can't create 5 more non-smoking rooms no matter how much you complain at the front desk. All they could do is offer to move you to another resort.

jcanary - I too suggest calling MS tomorrow and ask to speak to the member satisfaction manager. They specifically said they don't want members calling or faxing the front desk, this manager is telling you something else.

Patty3
07-05-2004, 11:56 AM
I to have asthma. We have been DVC members since 1998. When I make my room requests I always tell them that I need a non-smoking room because of my asthma. Maybe, I have been lucky on this because I have always received a non-smoking room. I was told by MS that if there is a medical reason for requesting a non-smoking room, you will get one. I was told this is the only request they can guarantee.

calypso*a*go-go
07-05-2004, 01:30 PM
I think one of the biggest problems is that so many people are quick to claim they have asthma to try and insure a non-smoking room (this is not a reflection on anyone responding to this thread -- so please don't take it the wrong way).

For the people that really do have severe asthma, I wonder if a person could actually send a letter or even prescription from their doctor to MS indicating they must have a non-smoking room.

Perhaps that would cut down on the number of rooms given out to people that use the term for their own convenience. It would also give MS some documentation that maybe more rooms should be converted to non-smoking.

My own DD has been treated for severe asthma almost since birth so I may try this with our ressie in October.

shelbyjosh
07-05-2004, 02:13 PM
Every year when we make our ressies for OKW we let them know that DD is asthmatic. We have never been given a room that was a smoking room. Thank goodness because I would really have to make a stink (no pun intended) about it!!

LoveToDisney
07-05-2004, 02:14 PM
It would be great if DVC would make ALL the rooms in the smaller resorts such as BCV non-smoking if they can't guarantee anything and request that smokers use the balcony or smoking areas outside. Plus, if someone smokes in a non-smoking room, they need to be penalized with a good-sized fine, so they will be discouraged from doing so again. Since DVC wants to fill EVERY room, the idea of "requests" just doesn't work well unless the rooms are all non-smoking. Also, if a "rentee" smokes up a room, the DVC member should be penalized in their points, so the renter will be more careful in who they rent to next time.

Shadeaux
07-05-2004, 02:21 PM
My daughter & I both have severe asthma, so I've always requested a non-smoking room for medical reasons. The chances of getting non-smoking at OKW is very high; I believe there are only 2 or 3 smoking buildings left. I've always received a non-smoking room however on our trip last month, I could tell as soon as I walked through the door that someone had smoked in the 1BR section of our 2BR non-smoking lock-off. Being it was Memorial Day weekend and the fact that when we checked in the CM had mentioned they were very busy and nothing much else was available other than a woods view, I decided to take a chance and stay hoping we'd be okay if I turned up the air conditioner for a few hours. That didn't work and I ended up having to take extra asthma meds. My daughter was okay because she was in the second bedroom. Anyway, I called housekeeping about setting up an ionizer (I think that's what they said they used) the next day while we were out. By the time we got back, the smell was completely gone and I was fine the rest of our 11 night stay. I was a bit worried about requesting the machine because I was afraid they'd put in some sort of deodorizer to mask the smell. I'm more allergic to perfumes and deodorizers than I am smoke. Housekeeping said, no problem, they could run the machine without the deodorizer.

I think a lot of the problem, at least at OKW is that there are so few smoking buildings available. There used to be quite a few more.

DebbieB
07-05-2004, 04:29 PM
They have cut down on the number of smoking rooms. I think Boardwalk used to have smoking rooms on the 2nd and 4th floors. Now it's just part of the 2nd and I believe all the boardwalk views are non-smoking. That maybe causing an increase in the number of non-smoking rooms where smokers smoke anyway or are out on the balcony smoking. They should start cracking down on that, but smokers have reported the front desk telling them it was OK when no smoking room was available.

I've always been lucky. In 11 DVC trips (6 OKW, 5 BWV), I've always had non-smoking.

LoveToDisney
07-05-2004, 05:59 PM
Debbie, just out of curiosity...what day of the week do you usually check in and what time since you have an incredibly good record for getting non-smoking?

DebbieB
07-05-2004, 07:05 PM
At BWV, we usually check-in on Saturday afternoon between 1:00 and 3:00. I've found our room was always pre-assigned there and the resort is usually sold out (early December). Reservation made at exactly 11 months. At OKW, it varies. Last May we checked in on Sunday night around 8:00 and got non-smoking but not the requested first floor (was not a medical request). I don't believe our room was pre-assigned. Other times it was Friday or Saturday afternoon. We go in early May, I don't think that's a real busy time. 7 month reservation.

At non-DVC resorts, my luck is pretty good too. The only smoking room I was in was at CSR. I arrived with 3 friends around 8:30am (we stayed by the airport the night before) and we requested connecting double rooms. We were happy when the front desk said they had rooms already ready! Until we got to them and found they were smoking and smelled! We were anxious to get to the parks, so we kept them. We requested ionizers but they still smelled for the rest of our stay, everything in my suitcase reeked when I got home. Big mistake, we should have waited, the resort was not crowded.

Lori2816
07-06-2004, 10:48 AM
Being a smoker myself, I must chime in on this. I ALWAYS request a smoking room when I make my ressies!! On our last trip, at check in, we were told that there were no more smoking rooms available. Smoking was however, allowed on the balcony. What I learned was this. Non-smokers don't want you smoking in the rooms OR outside on the balcony!! Perhaps the problem is too many non-smoking rooms and not enough smoking rooms.

shelbyjosh
07-06-2004, 11:15 AM
I don't want to be flamed but....if there are that many requests for non-smoking rooms why doesn't DVC make more dedicated n/s rooms? I personally cannot stand the smell of cigarettes and would refuse a room that had the slightest hint of smoke (due to DD having asthma).

Shadeaux
07-06-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by shelbyjosh
I don't want to be flamed but....if there are that many requests for non-smoking rooms why doesn't DVC make more dedicated n/s rooms

This has been done at OKW. There used to be a lot more smoking buildings. As I said in my previous post, I think there are only 2 smoking buildings remaining. In my opinion, they've eliminated too many smoking buildings. This may be why more smokers are being told it's okay to smoke in a non-smoking unit or on the balconies. Our trip last month was the first time in 10 years of going to OKW in which we had a non-smoking unit that had been smoked in.

Granny
07-06-2004, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by DebbieB
They have cut down on the number of smoking rooms. I think this is true, but I am hearing more and more of these so-called "smoking optional" rooms!

Sorry, but if smoking's optional, that's a smoking room. We've been lucky too, and my daughter also has asthma and allergies. Oh well, crossing our fingers for our check-in in a couple of weeks at BWV!

Dean
07-07-2004, 11:14 AM
Unfortunately this is simply a request. I'm sure the 5 days out refers to the unit assignment issue and isn't so much of a rule as a reality. I too wish they'd book smoking or non smoking directly.

jennymouse
07-07-2004, 02:32 PM
I think they either don't have enough smoking room or they don't care where they put you. I'm a smoker and I always request a smoking room. You all can flame me if you'd like, I don't really care anymore. But the fact is, in all my trips to WDW, I have NEVER received a smoking room. Not even once. I'm always told to request an ashtray from housekeeping at that's what I do. Last trip we had two rooms at AKL for a couple nights after BCV and my confirmation papers said. Smoking-Guranteed. I still have it and can show you. Did we get a smoking room? No. I'm beginning to wonder if they even exist. I just judging by my experiences alone, but because of the way they do things, I'd be willing to bet money that every single non-smoking room at WDW has been smoked in at some point.

donaldbuzz&minnie
07-07-2004, 02:57 PM
I don't think this smoking / non-smoking room thing is a moral issue or a convenience issue. My concern is for the health of those who simply cannot be exposed to the smoke left behind by former occupants. Unless there is a foolproof way to guarantee non-smoking rooms to anyone who needs one, I think that all rooms should be non-smoking. I know that means that smokers would have to go to the trouble of smoking on the balcony, but isn't the health of someone who literally may not be able to breathe more important to everyone (smokers and non-smokers) than the convenience of being able to smoke indoors? Isn't that a reasonable gift that smokers can give to their non-smoking friends, and non-smokers can thank them for? As a general comment, not specifically tied to this issue, I get so tired of hearing about everyone's "rights". Can't we just do some things out of respect and consideration for one another? ::MinnieMo

CaptainMidnight
07-07-2004, 04:22 PM
The smoking community is diminishing. Columbus, Ohio voted to have all restaraunts smoke free. Children's hospital made a change to not let any smoking anywhere on thier grounds. There is a continuing trend towardless availability for smokers. A recent study showed the detrimental effects of second hand smoke, was just released in the last two weeks. DVC should not increase the inventory of smoking rooms. They should be able to guarantee non-smoking availability to those guests, and smoking to those guests. Most of the rest of the hotels do it.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-07-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by LoveToDisney
It would be great if DVC would make ALL the rooms in the smaller resorts such as BCV non-smoking if they can't guarantee anything and request that smokers use the balcony or smoking areas outside. Plus, if someone smokes in a non-smoking room, they need to be penalized with a good-sized fine, so they will be discouraged from doing so again. Since DVC wants to fill EVERY room, the idea of "requests" just doesn't work well unless the rooms are all non-smoking. Also, if a "rentee" smokes up a room, the DVC member should be penalized in their points, so the renter will be more careful in who they rent to next time.

No, the rentor should be penalized, not the owner. How can you possibly penalize someone who probably does not know the person they rented to. That, IMHO, is simply not right.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-07-2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Shadeaux
This has been done at OKW. There used to be a lot more smoking buildings. As I said in my previous post, I think there are only 2 smoking buildings remaining. In my opinion, they've eliminated too many smoking buildings. This may be why more smokers are being told it's okay to smoke in a non-smoking unit or on the balconies. Our trip last month was the first time in 10 years of going to OKW in which we had a non-smoking unit that had been smoked in.

There are three smoking buildings. 12,19 and 41.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-07-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by donaldbuzz&minnie
I don't think this smoking / non-smoking room thing is a moral issue or a convenience issue. My concern is for the health of those who simply cannot be exposed to the smoke left behind by former occupants. Unless there is a foolproof way to guarantee non-smoking rooms to anyone who needs one, I think that all rooms should be non-smoking. I know that means that smokers would have to go to the trouble of smoking on the balcony, but isn't the health of someone who literally may not be able to breathe more important to everyone (smokers and non-smokers) than the convenience of being able to smoke indoors? Isn't that a reasonable gift that smokers can give to their non-smoking friends, and non-smokers can thank them for? As a general comment, not specifically tied to this issue, I get so tired of hearing about everyone's "rights". Can't we just do some things out of respect and consideration for one another? ::MinnieMo

No, that is not reasonable at all. Why should I have to NOT smoke in my home away from home? I paid a LOT of money to become a member. I always request a smoking room and have 99% of the time received it.
While I care about your health, I do consider my vacation very important to me and my enjoyment important also.
I would dearly love it if people would stop wearing perfume, I am highly allergic to many. BUT, that ain't gonna happen.
My consideration for non smokers is thus: I will request a smoking room, I will follow the rules in the park or anywhere else regarding smoking. That is as far as I go. If given a non smoking room, then, I will smoke on the balcony with the doors closed so no nasty smoke wefts in there.
I do often wonder how people with severe allergies exist in the real world, I really don't believe that smoking is the only trigger, but, I do believe it is the one that non smokers can control, whine about, and get action on. Controlling the actions of others is not right, especially when it is a legal activity.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-07-2004, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
The smoking community is diminishing. Columbus, Ohio voted to have all restaraunts smoke free. Children's hospital made a change to not let any smoking anywhere on thier grounds. There is a continuing trend towardless availability for smokers. A recent study showed the detrimental effects of second hand smoke, was just released in the last two weeks. DVC should not increase the inventory of smoking rooms. They should be able to guarantee non-smoking availability to those guests, and smoking to those guests. Most of the rest of the hotels do it.

With the continual decrease in smoking rooms, the increase of smoking in non smoking rooms is now a reality.

CT has very strong non smoking laws and as much as I dislike them, I follow them. (I definitely have a problem with government interferring with private businesses. ) But, with these new laws, I have saved a bunch of money. :) I simply don't go out as much.

lovetotravel1974
07-07-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by donaldbuzz&minnie
Unless there is a foolproof way to guarantee non-smoking rooms to anyone who needs one, I think that all rooms should be non-smoking. I know that means that smokers would have to go to the trouble of smoking on the balcony, but isn't the health of someone who literally may not be able to breathe more important to everyone (smokers and non-smokers) than the convenience of being able to smoke indoors?

I agree 100%.::yes::

CaptainMidnight
07-07-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
No, the rentor should be penalized, not the owner. How can you possibly penalize someone who probably does not know the person they rented to. That, IMHO, is simply not right.
I agree there should be a penalty for abuse of the room for someone smoking in a non-smoking. That is not right.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-07-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
I agree 100%.::yes::

If you know that you are going somewhere where you know there will be smoking, then you have tacitly agreed to endure the suffering. You had a choice, you chose to go where there will be smoking.
To even suggest that the world make alterations for you is absurd.
I make a choice when I go somewhere where I know there will be perfumes that stop me from breathing and where I know no smoking will be allowed. I adapt. I would suggest you all try the same. I would never presume to alter the habits of many for the choice I made with full knowledge.

lovesdisney
07-08-2004, 04:06 AM
My DH is a smoker and we stayed at BWV in May and had requested a smoking room. We were told there were not any available but that DH could smoke on the balcony.

What I find interesting is that there are no smoking rooms at BWV. and only 2 at VWL. Is this correct? Why can't DVC be upfront about this instead of saying there were non available? We certainly would never have at stayed at BWV had we known and will never stay at VWL because of this as having a smoking room is top priority to DH and we would like to avoid the hassle of having to smoke on balconies and risk the wrath of non smokers.

CRobin
07-08-2004, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by lovesdisney
What I find interesting is that there are no smoking rooms at BWV. and only 2 at VWL. Is this correct? Why can't DVC be upfront about this instead of saying there were non available? We certainly would never have at stayed at BWV had we known and will never stay at VWL because of this as having a smoking room is top priority to DH and we would like to avoid the hassle of having to smoke on balconies and risk the wrath of non smokers.

No, not correct.

There are smoking rooms available at BWV, and I'm sorry that you could not secure one.

Smoking on balconies is permitted, and until Disney PUBLISHES a rule which denies that, your DH does not have to feel "hassled" about it.

Dean
07-08-2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
With the continual decrease in smoking rooms, the increase of smoking in non smoking rooms is now a reality.

CT has very strong non smoking laws and as much as I dislike them, I follow them. (I definitely have a problem with government interferring with private businesses. ) But, with these new laws, I have saved a bunch of money. :) I simply don't go out as much. Florida has actually seen an increase in restaurant revenues since they went all non smoking a year ago. As for Smoke as a trigger for allergies, it is a controllable one. So the idea there may be non controllable triggers is not applicable. Actually smoke is not as much a trigger for allergies as for Non Allergic issues to include vasomotor rhinitis, which are FAR more common than allergies and can affect breathing similar to asthma. It is also a trigger for ture Asthma whether the patient is allergic or not, 10% of the US population is asthmatic though many don't even know it.

I have no problem with having smoking rooms. I have a problem with people smoking in a non smoiking room and also a great problem with Disney allowing smokers to smoke in a non smoking rooms, no matter what the reason.

CarolAnnC
07-08-2004, 09:38 AM
The subject of this thread is "Smoking at DVC Resorts".

This thread has been heavily edited to weed out smoking debate posts and those unrelated to DVC Resorts.

Please keep on topic here, as we would like to keep the thread open for DVC discussion. Thank you all.

brivers222
07-08-2004, 09:58 AM
At risk of being flamed, I need to ask this for my MIL.

We have yet to stay at a DVC property yet... Use Year starts Aug'04... My DW and I both do not smoke but her mother does.


From what I gather in the 6 pages of this thread is that Smoking is allowed on balconies... But are their any grand Vilas that allow smoking in them? We are interested in any of the places that offer GV's OKW, SSR, BWV.

Thanks and sorry, but I need to know the answer, so I had to ask :crazy:

jmminarik
07-08-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Dean
Florida has actually seen an increase in restaurant revenues since they went all non smoking a year ago.

The tourist economy has also gotten better. I'd think that would be a better correlation than the non-smoking ban unless you have some good scientific evidence.

Just a few thoughts having found time again to read this thread:

1) Based on this thread alone, it would seem everyone who owns DVC is either asthmatic or a smoker. I think the vast majority of non-smokers are probably annoyed by smoke, but not militant about it.
2) Concentrating smokers in a small number of smoking units causes a concentration of residuals, potentially making a smoking unit more hazardous for the truely affected.
3) Why don't they put the smoking units on the top floor in the 'hotel' dvc resorts?
4) Would it make sense to put people who requested smoking but got non-smoking in a top floor room (assuming 3 doesn't happen) so that smoking on the balcony is less likely to annoy other people who sit on the balconies?
5) Medical need is very likely going to be abused, just like the handicap placards/plates.
6) Until WDW management changes what I think of as their unofficial policy of 'never actively PO the guests', punishing those who break or bend the rules will never happen...WDW management wants people to come back because they had a happy memory, not avoid the place because they were given a fine. That's my take on why we (as a whole) pay for rooms and resorts that are not well taken care of by the "guests".

-Joe

snowwhiteqt
07-08-2004, 10:33 AM
brivers222-

there is 1 smoking grand villa at BWV

donaldbuzz&minnie
07-08-2004, 03:30 PM
I am all for smokers being assigned smoking rooms and non-smokers being assigned non-smoking rooms. If Disney can do that 100% of the time, great! If a smoker has to be assigned to a non-smoking room I very much appreciate it when s/he smokes on the balcony instead of in the room. As a non-smoker, I know I can always move away from someone if I am outside and do not wish to smell the smoke. If I am on a nearby balcony, I can always move inside. I don't think the answer is to inconvenience smokers so much that they have nowhere within a reasonable distance from their room to go. Smoking is a habit, but it is also an addiction, and an addiction must be fed. I wouldn't want someone having to get dressed in the middle of the night, walk for 10 minutes, and stand around outside in the dark just to be able to smoke a cigarette.

My problem comes when Disney must put a non-smoker in a smoking room, especially when that non-smoker has allergies. Time-shares are just that - shared space. I travel alot, and while I have moved away from heavily perfumed individuals in enclosed spaces, I have never checked into a hotel-setting and been able to smell the lingering scent of someone's perfume. Smoke permeates fabrics to the point where it can be very difficult to eradicate. When I leave a hotel room of any kind, I have the obligation to leave it in a condition where, with a little light housekeeping, the next person in the room does not have any of "me" left behind. Smokers who smoke in a room leave part of themselves behind for the next person to deal with. This is equivalent to someone who does not just wear perfume in a room, but takes their perfume and pours it into all the fabrics in the room. It would take alot of work for Disney to get rid of the smell, and some of it would linger. When you have to spend your entire vacation sleeping in a room with an objectional odor of any kind, you can't "get away" the way you can if you are outdoors and someone smokes or "perfumes" next to you. I can't imagine that a smoker or non-smoker would want to sleep in a room that reeks of Chanel No. 5. Non-smokers feel the same way about smoke.

So, if Disney can always guarantee me a non-smoking room, and can do that by making smoking rooms available to others, that would be my first choice. If I have to make do in a smoking room, I don't like it, but I can do it because I don't have allergies. Not a pleasant way to spend a vacation, though. For someone who has health concerns, making them sleep in a smoking room really isn't ok. ::MinnieMo

dianeschlicht
07-08-2004, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by donaldbuzz&minnie
I am all for smokers being assigned smoking rooms and non-smokers being assigned non-smoking rooms. If Disney can do that 100% of the time, great! If a smoker has to be assigned to a non-smoking room I very much appreciate it when s/he smokes on the balcony instead of in the room. As a non-smoker, I know I can always move away from someone if I am outside and do not wish to smell the smoke. If I am on a nearby balcony, I can always move inside. I don't think the answer is to inconvenience smokers so much that they have nowhere within a reasonable distance from their room to go. Smoking is a habit, but it is also an addiction, and an addiction must be fed. I wouldn't want someone having to get dressed in the middle of the night, walk for 10 minutes, and stand around outside in the dark just to be able to smoke a cigarette.

My problem comes when Disney must put a non-smoker in a smoking room, especially when that non-smoker has allergies. Time-shares are just that - shared space. I travel alot, and while I have moved away from heavily perfumed individuals in enclosed spaces, I have never checked into a hotel-setting and been able to smell the lingering scent of someone's perfume. Smoke permeates fabrics to the point where it can be very difficult to eradicate. When I leave a hotel room of any kind, I have the obligation to leave it in a condition where, with a little light housekeeping, the next person in the room does not have any of "me" left behind. Smokers who smoke in a room leave part of themselves behind for the next person to deal with. This is equivalent to someone who does not just wear perfume in a room, but takes their perfume and pours it into all the fabrics in the room. It would take alot of work for Disney to get rid of the smell, and some of it would linger. When you have to spend your entire vacation sleeping in a room with an objectional odor of any kind, you can't "get away" the way you can if you are outdoors and someone smokes or "perfumes" next to you. I can't imagine that a smoker or non-smoker would want to sleep in a room that reeks of Chanel No. 5. Non-smokers feel the same way about smoke.

So, if Disney can always guarantee me a non-smoking room, and can do that by making smoking rooms available to others, that would be my first choice. If I have to make do in a smoking room, I don't like it, but I can do it because I don't have allergies. Not a pleasant way to spend a vacation, though. For someone who has health concerns, making them sleep in a smoking room really isn't ok. ::MinnieMo
ITA! The problem isn't the smokers, but DVC allowing them to use a non-smoking room. The smoke residue is the issue for those of us who are sensitive to it.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-08-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Couldn't this aurgument be made in reverse in the exact same manner? If you know you may not get a smoking room, you shouldn't smoke in a non-smoking room? My contention is that the world is moving increasingly more smoke free. It would be consistent for DVC to do the same and to implement penalties for those who don't comply.

As for your annalogy, of course, there is not research that demonstrates that breathing second hand purfume can cause lung cancer. There is clear research evidence the breathing second hand cigarette smoke can cause lung cancer. Purfume just isn't a valid comparison to cigarette smoke. I still think that DVC should guarantee the rooms one way or the other so people know what to expect before arriving. If no smoking rooms are available, smokers will know the restrictions they face ahead of time. Non-smokers can have comfort they will get a non-smoking room. Seems reasonable to me.

I absolutely have NO issue with not smoking in a non smoking unit. As to penalties, I have no problem with that either.

sorry, but, my allergies to perfume are very serious and I literally cannot breath, whiile you may not think it as iimportant as second hand smoke, I sure do. Second hand smoke INSIDE is a health risk. No arguement. However, I asked for a link to prove that outside second hand smoke can cause lung cancer.
I do believe there should be a more equitable distribution of smoking and non smoking rooms. The more they decrease the smoking rooms, the more smokers will ignore the non smoking room definition and smoke anyway. They already do, I can only see it escalating.
I agree, the rooms should be guaranteed, one way or the other.
Like a non smoker, I feel I should enjoy the comfort of knowing I will have a smoking room. That seems reasonable to me.

bz8bls
07-08-2004, 04:47 PM
Gail, it looks like bldg #12 is the most desirable location for smokers. Does that mean smokres are put is the less desirable buildings? Don't they pay the same dues????There should be an equal amount of desirable buildings for smokers as well.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-08-2004, 05:36 PM
Actually, I am rather fond of building 41 and then 19. As to the rest of your post, I absolutely agree.

RAD
07-08-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by jmminarik

3) Why don't they put the smoking units on the top floor in the 'hotel' dvc resorts?


I remember a thread that was about smoking at the Poly. Someone was VERY upset that they wanted a non-smoking room but they were limited to the 1st and 2nd floors, 3rd floor was smoking. She felt that the 3rd floor should be non-smoking, but then other would complain about the smoke rising. Bottom line is you can't please everyone, someone's going to b*tch about something.

CaptainMidnight
07-08-2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
I absolutely have NO issue with not smoking in a non smoking unit. As to penalties, I have no problem with that either.

Excellent.

sorry, but, my allergies to perfume are very serious and I literally cannot breath, whiile you may not think it as iimportant as second hand smoke, I sure do.

I'm not discounting your perfume allergies. I'm just not aware of studies indicating the danger of cancer as is with smoking.

Second hand smoke INSIDE is a health risk. No arguement. However, I asked for a link to prove that outside second hand smoke can cause lung cancer.

"A new study just published in JAMA [the Journal of the American Medical Association] (2001;286:436-63) shows that after just 30 minutes of exposure, secondhand smoke had "abruptly reduced the CFVR" [coronary flow velocity reserve] of nonsmokers. "This provides direct evidence of a harmful effect of passive smoking on the coronary circulation of nonsmokers," the researchers said"
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/cdnr/cdnr_fall0103.htm

I agree, the rooms should be guaranteed, one way or the other. Like a non smoker, I feel I should enjoy the comfort of knowing I will have a smoking room. That seems reasonable to me. [/B]
Me too.

Originally posted by Dean
Florida has actually seen an increase in restaurant revenues since they went all non smoking a year ago.

Excellent. Good health winning out could also be a win for DVC and Disney.

Dean
07-08-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by jmminarik
The tourist economy has also gotten better. I'd think that would be a better correlation than the non-smoking ban unless you have some good scientific evidence.

Possibly, no way to tell one way or another. The main point in my head was that the revenues didn't go down as some complained they would. Plus the areas that don't depend on tourism mimick the increases of the tourism areas.

Gail, it's unlikely that the perfume issue is a true allergy but more likely the vasomotor issues I was mentioning. If you and are fine within minutes of being away from the perfume, that is not allergic. That's actually more common and more difficult to treat. I have the same problem with amonia products.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-08-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Excellent.

I'm not discounting your perfume allergies. I'm just not aware of studies indicating the danger of cancer as is with smoking.

"A new study just published in JAMA [the Journal of the American Medical Association] (2001;286:436-63) shows that after just 30 minutes of exposure, secondhand smoke had "abruptly reduced the CFVR" [coronary flow velocity reserve] of nonsmokers. "This provides direct evidence of a harmful effect of passive smoking on the coronary circulation of nonsmokers," the researchers said"
http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/cdnr/cdnr_fall0103.htm

Me too.

Excellent. Good health winning out could also be a win for DVC and Disney.

Again, you provide links to inside second hand smoke, it does not address smoking outside.
Considering all the other toxic elements in the air, I would think it impossible to measure the risks.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-08-2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Dean
Possibly, no way to tell one way or another. The main point in my head was that the revenues didn't go down as some complained they would. Plus the areas that don't depend on tourism mimick the increases of the tourism areas.

Gail, it's unlikely that the perfume issue is a true allergy but more likely the vasomotor issues I was mentioning. If you and are fine within minutes of being away from the perfume, that is not allergic. That's actually more common and more difficult to treat. I have the same problem with amonia products.

Dean,
I am fine with the exception of a massive headache and stuffy nose.
I guess you could say some non smokers issues listed as allergies are the same vasomotor issues you mentioned.
I am happy to hear it is not a true allergy. :) That means I don't have any allergies at all, just a vasomotor issue and I simply cannot wait to look that one up. LOL :)

bz8bls
07-08-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Actually, I am rather fond of building 41 and then 19. As to the rest of your post, I absolutely agree.

Can you tell me why you are fond of those buildings? We are going Labor Day weekend (six adults)in a GV; my DH likes to smoke cigars and another member in our party is a smoker (they willl not smoke inside); as a matter fact, I have a cigarette sometimes when I have a cup of coffee; are those buildings close to traffic noise on the outside (i.e. Buena Vista Drive) :confused:

GAIL HAYDEN
07-08-2004, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by bz8bls
Can you tell me why you are fond of those buildings? We are going Labor Day weekend (six adults)in a GV; my DH likes to smoke cigars and another member in our party is a smoker (they willl not smoke inside); as a matter fact, I have a cigarette sometimes when I have a cup of coffee; are those buildings close to traffic noise on the outside (i.e. Buena Vista Drive) :confused:

I like 41 because it is quiet and we can see Illuminations from the balcony. It is also beside the pool.
I like 19 for the above reasons, however, sometimes you can hear traffic, no big deal with the doors closed.
We will be there at the same time as you and Dee smokes cigars and so does the guy who will be with us. They do smoke inside, as long as it is a smoking unit, that is. ;)

bz8bls
07-08-2004, 10:27 PM
Thanks, maybe we will run into you while we are there.

Dean
07-09-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Dean,
I am fine with the exception of a massive headache and stuffy nose.
I guess you could say some non smokers issues listed as allergies are the same vasomotor issues you mentioned.
I am happy to hear it is not a true allergy. :) That means I don't have any allergies at all, just a vasomotor issue and I simply cannot wait to look that one up. LOL :) Allergies are easier to treat as you can use antihistimines. About the only things that will help the non allergic issues are nasal steriods, oral steriods and avoidance. Actually the newer, non sedating antihistamines and Singulair will help a little but due to anti inflamation properties and not the other main mechanism of action.

Now to relate this explanation to the topic. The problem with those with asthma in general and those with vasomotor issues of any type is that the trigger is generally not an allergic one. In general, people are not allergic to smoke. And it's not the smell per se that triggers the problem, so treating the room with an ionizer won't help most of them.

Lori2816
07-09-2004, 09:23 AM
Technically, second hand smoke is the blue grey cloud that burns from the cigarette or that which is exhaled from the smoker. Any other chemicals left behind are just as dangerous as the amonia you may be cleaning with at home. I beg you, please, do not get down on your hands and knees and smell the carpeting in ANY hotel room!
I know most of you think that the answer is to send all smokers to another planet , but I'd really miss some of my family members.
How should we handle all the people who check into DVC property, you know, the ones with colds. What if they are coughing and sneezing in those rooms!?! By the way, last Oct. we brought my friend to WDW with us. She, like so many of you, has asthma. Her biggest complaint was the humidity. "Geez, guys. How do you do this yr. after yr.? If you had asthma, this would kill you!" I'd really like to invite her again but she says, she can't handle the humidity. We think the humidity factor is pretty low in Oct. Next we'll try Dec. Maybe she can handle that.

dianeschlicht
07-09-2004, 09:27 AM
Yep, and the humidity is why we usually go in December and January. We have done August and September and it is MISERABLE for my asthma!

CarolMN
07-09-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by dianeschlicht
Yep, and the humidity is why we usually go in December and January. We have done August and September and it is MISERABLE for my asthma!

Diane - You must stay indoors for most of the summer - IMHO, Florida has nothing on a "normal" Minnesota summer if you are talking humidity!!!!

Best wishes -

colleen costello
07-09-2004, 10:39 AM
Lori2816, you might also try March. We go down for Spring Break every year and Mom loves it. She has pretty serious asthma, although she is realizing she handles heat a lot better than cold. March is warm but not too hot and not too rainy or humid. We love it. My parents live in PA like you and my Mom swears Florida is no stickier than Easton, PA! :)

Lori2816
07-09-2004, 12:56 PM
Colleen, PA does get pretty sticky. However, there is no comparison to FL. The humidity in FL is pretty much a constant. We get much needed relief from it. We invited my friend on the Oct. trip because we felt (from experience) she could handle it with no problem. This point I brought up because of the whole smoking issue. Smokers feel the same way that non-smokers feel. If I book at 11 mos. requesting a smoking room, I SHOULD get a smoking room. I know, and many of you know, that there are ALOT of people requesting non-smoking rooms under the lie that it is medically necessary. I have had many unpleasant experiences upon walking into rooms. The worst was the room that smelled as though the vacationers before us hadn't showered in a year. That was the start of me packing Fabreeze. One poster had gone on about getting on an elevator and having to smell smoke on someone standing next to them....please!!! I have had to smell dirty diapers, bad breath and horrid perfume. No one wants to banish these people! People have talked about paying fines or charging extra points. I pay my dues every year just like everyone else. I will never ever believe that smoking cost more per year (cleaning) than the everyday wear and tear! If I'm to be charged for smoking, I suggest all rooms are subject to inspection upon check out. If you stole a towel...you pay. If you or your child spilled a drink...you pay.
All I ask is that all of the people with TRUE medical problems ask the people without them to stop taking your rooms just because they don't want to be in a room where someone smoked 10 hrs. ago.

dianeschlicht
07-09-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by CarolMN
Diane - You must stay indoors for most of the summer - IMHO, Florida has nothing on a "normal" Minnesota summer if you are talking humidity!!!!

Best wishes -
Actually, I am LOVING this cool dry summer! The rainy days have been a big issue, but the dry air the rest of the time has been a God Send. Yes, most summers I do spend a lot of time indoors.

jarestel
07-09-2004, 04:21 PM
Absolutely agree. We're not talking views here, these are things that can ruin somebody's vacation. ( Granted, some people will claim their vacation is ruined if they don't get a certain view, but most of us don't feel this way. ) This is why MS definitely needs to make smoking and handicap rooms reservable room categories. Nobody should have to check in and be told they have been assigned a room that is guaranteed to ruin their vacation.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-09-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by jarestel
Absolutely agree. We're not talking views here, these are things that can ruin somebody's vacation. ( Granted, some people will claim their vacation is ruined if they don't get a certain view, but most of us don't feel this way. ) This is why MS definitely needs to make smoking and handicap rooms reservable room categories. Nobody should have to check in and be told they have been assigned a room that is guaranteed to ruin their vacation.

ITA!!! But, the same goes for a smoker assigned to a non smoking room, it can ruin a vacation. It is not very relaxing to be in a non smoking unit and have to go outside to smoke. You run the risk of offending someone if you smoke on the balcony, you run the risk of offending someone if you are outside anywhere near a non smoking area. I can imagine the situation, where a non smoker is assigned a smoking room, can be very very uncomfortable also.

LoveToDisney
07-09-2004, 05:57 PM
jarestel and GAIL HAYDEN
I agree--this is a big issue for all of us and DVC should change their reservation system to make three types of rooms:
Non-smoking, Smoking and Smoking -Optional.
The non-smoking and smoking should be guaranteed (if available) at the time of reservation. If none are available, then you decide whether to take a smoking-optional room or waitlist. It's not fair for the owner who reserves at 11 months out to not have the opportunity to reserve the correct room--whether smoking or non-smoking--and then NOT GET IT when they arrive early or late or on an off day when the rooms are all full. My points are just as important as another. If I have reserved at 11 months, I should get what I reserved and not the leftovers because I arrived midweek or later in the day.

CaptainMidnight
07-09-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Again, you provide links to inside second hand smoke, it does not address smoking outside.
Actually, the study doesn't differentiate between getting second hand smoke outside versus inside. I think you may be trying to create a differentiation that doesn't actually exist. There are multiple references on the center for disease website, you are welcome to check others. Regardless of other contributory causes like polution, etc., secondary smoke has been proven to be a cause of cancer.

I'm glad Disney doesn't allow smoking anywhere outside that people want to smoke and asks them to use designated outside areas while in the parks. Perhaps this is appropriate at each of the DVC resorts as well, especially at the pools.

jarestel
07-09-2004, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
ITA!!! But, the same goes for a smoker assigned to a non smoking room, it can ruin a vacation. It is not very relaxing to be in a non smoking unit and have to go outside to smoke. You run the risk of offending someone if you smoke on the balcony, you run the risk of offending someone if you are outside anywhere near a non smoking area. I can imagine the situation, where a non smoker is assigned a smoking room, can be very very uncomfortable also.

Yes, definitely. I was including both smokers and non-smokers in my previous post. Being able to reserve a guaranteed smoking or non-smoking room would benefit everyone. I don't know why MS can't block these rooms by category.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-09-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by jarestel
Yes, definitely. I was including both smokers and non-smokers in my previous post. Being able to reserve a guaranteed smoking or non-smoking room would benefit everyone. I don't know why MS can't block these rooms by category.

Me either, perhaps there are more smokers than there are rooms. :)

jeanniec
07-09-2004, 08:38 PM
If there are so many smokers smoking in non-smoking rooms, does it not seem that DVC should increase, rather than decrease, the number of smoking rooms? Apparently, there must be a lot more smokers than someone thinks there are. Poor planning? If the number of smokers is so small, then why are they so often put in a non-smoking room? I think there are a lot more smokers than most people seem to think, and the simple solution would be to increase the smoking units. Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?

lovetotravel1974
07-09-2004, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by jeanniec
Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?

Yes......;)

jennymouse
07-09-2004, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by jeanniec
Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?

I don't think you're crazy at all. It seems like I read more posts about smokers not getting thier smoking room requests, than non smokers who post about being put into a smoking room. And I know we'd all hear about it if that were to happen. As a matter of fact, you hear more non smokers complaining about getting a non smoking room that smells of smoke more than you hear about non smokers getting put into a smoking room. It doesn't take a mental heavy weight to come to the conclusion that some of the DVC resorts need more smoking rooms.::yes::

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
Yes......;)

I am interested, why do you think it crazy to iincrease the number of smoking rooms?
Non smokers should not have to risk being put into a room where a smoker has been because there are not enough smoking rooms and they elect to smoke in it. Smokers shoud not have to risk being put into a non smoking room because they have as much right to enjoy their vacation home as anyone else.
Smokers due pay dues and spend money on vacation just like non smokers. In a smoking unit we do not pose a hazard to your health and we don't pollute your non smoking units.
There has to be a middle ground. I don't much like spending a ton of money each year on dues to be told I cannot have a smoking room and I am sure the opposite would true for a non smoker.
When I first joined in 92 OKW was split almost 50/50. I could accept them dropping a few buildings to accomodate an ever increasing population of non smokers, however, 3 buildings for smokers is absurd. I can understand someone having a problem with smoking, but, what someone does in their own vacation home is no one's business. Apparently, you have a problem with people doing things you don't like. In all honesty, that is a control issue, and you simply cannot control someone else.
Smoking is a legal action.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by jeanniec
If there are so many smokers smoking in non-smoking rooms, does it not seem that DVC should increase, rather than decrease, the number of smoking rooms? Apparently, there must be a lot more smokers than someone thinks there are. Poor planning? If the number of smokers is so small, then why are they so often put in a non-smoking room? I think there are a lot more smokers than most people seem to think, and the simple solution would be to increase the smoking units. Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?

Nope, not at all.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
Actually, the study doesn't differentiate between getting second hand smoke outside versus inside. I think you may be trying to create a differentiation that doesn't actually exist. There are multiple references on the center for disease website, you are welcome to check others. Regardless of other contributory causes like polution, etc., secondary smoke has been proven to be a cause of cancer.

I'm glad Disney doesn't allow smoking anywhere outside that people want to smoke and asks them to use designated outside areas while in the parks. Perhaps this is appropriate at each of the DVC resorts as well, especially at the pools.

There is actually a big difference. Lots of things cause cancer, but, I doubt a whiff now and then outside will cause you any ill effects. Driving to work causes you to inhale far more cancer causing agents than a whiff of a cigarette. The EPA does not want you to know this because they want to focus you on other things and not the dangers of just going outside for "fresh" air.
I, too, am happy they have designated smoking areas. Takes the heat off the smoker and gives the non smoker less to complain about. It is also much safer for all guests. Naturally, like most things Disney, it is not very well enforced. That, IMHO, is terribly unfortunate.

lovetotravel1974
07-10-2004, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Smoking is a legal action.

If its a legal action, try smoking in Cailfornia.....anywhere indoors.Florida will be the same in the near future........as stated by Dean below...........

Originally posted by Dean
Still, the political climate in FL would suggest that total non smoking is not unlikely for hotels and the like and that timeshare will likely follow suite as it keeps maint costs down.

wdwstar
07-10-2004, 08:08 AM
Its agaisnt the FL. law to smoke in FL. restaurants, i know your talking about smoking and non smoking dvc rooms. but where are these people suppose to smoke in their rental cars? even the FL. rental cars are cracking down on the smoking in the cars.

mickeymouse710
07-10-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by jeanniec
If there are so many smokers smoking in non-smoking rooms, does it not seem that DVC should increase, rather than decrease, the number of smoking rooms? Apparently, there must be a lot more smokers than someone thinks there are. Poor planning? If the number of smokers is so small, then why are they so often put in a non-smoking room? I think there are a lot more smokers than most people seem to think, and the simple solution would be to increase the smoking units. Am I crazy to think that the problem could be solved by just increasing the smoking rooms?
ITA!!!!!

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
If its a legal action, try smoking in Cailfornia.....anywhere indoors.Florida will be the same in the near future........as stated by Dean below...........

It is still legal in CA, just not in public indoor places. They have not stopped selling cigarettes (they would lose much too much revenue that way).

As to Dean's prediction, it is just that, a prediction.

CT has a law similar to CA as does NY and MA to name a few.

I doubt Disney or any other hotel chain/resort will do anything to lose revenue.

As to maintenance costs, the costs would be down if you made it booze and child fee too. That is a silly arguement. The cost of maintenance is factored into our dues for all scenarios.

CaptainMidnight
07-10-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
There is actually a big difference. Lots of things cause cancer, but, I doubt a whiff now and then outside will cause you any ill effects. Driving to work causes you to inhale far more cancer causing agents than a whiff of a cigarette. The EPA does not want you to know this because they want to focus you on other things and not the dangers of just going outside for "fresh" air.

I mean no disrespect, but the statements above are ill informed baloney.

lovetotravel1974
07-10-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
It is still legal in CA, just not in public indoor places.
CT has a law similar to CA as does NY and MA to name a few.

I doubt Disney or any other hotel chain/resort will do anything to lose revenue.

Aren't we talking about "indoor places"?:confused:
Florida will soon be following Calif,NY,MA,etc in the near future in banning smoking anywhere "indoors."

They would NOT lose revenue............banning smoking anywhere indoors, would probably increase their revenue.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
I mean no disrespect, but the statements above are ill informed baloney.

No disrespect taken, but, have you ever given thought that perhaps the information given out by the government agencies might be a tad skewed?

I would love to debate this issue with you more, but, I don't really want to risk seeing this thread closed because we hijacked it with a debate.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by lovetotravel1974
Aren't we talking about "indoor places"?:confused:
Florida will soon be following Calif,NY,MA,etc in the near future in banning smoking anywhere "indoors."

They would NOT lose revenue............banning smoking anywhere indoors, would probably increase their revenue.

Yes, we are talking about indoor places, Cpt. Midnight and I are talking about any place.
I doubt you will see non smoking banned in any hotel (except for the one at Disney land) or resort or time share anytime in the near or far future.

Ask the restaurants in CT how much revenue they have lost with this idiotic smoking ban in bars and restaurants. Or, NY, where they can get a waiver if their revenue has dropped below 15%.

You might go out more because of it, but, I don't, in fact, my savings account has increased because of the ban in bars. (Never sat in smoking in a restaurant anyway). so, between you and me, it is a wash on the revenue aspect. :)

As I said before, just because you don't like smoking, there is no reason to ban it everywhere. What people do in their homes or vacations homes (where permitted) should have no impact on you. There are many things I don't like and I have learned to just let it go and avoid it. You might try that. You simply cannot control the actions of others.

CaptainMidnight
07-10-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
No disrespect taken, but, have you ever given thought that perhaps the information given out by the government agencies might be a tad skewed?

I work with a major cancer hospital and research center, it's not about the government, it's about proven medical research. Smoking affects all of us in higher health insurance costs, and consumptions of medical resources that could be devoted to other diseases. My hope is that no new generation starts smoking so that it will end everywhere. Glad it's not coming across disrespectfully.

I would love to debate this issue with you more, but, I don't really want to risk seeing this thread closed because we hijacked it with a debate.
Agreed. Back to DVC accomodation of smoking preferences. I think we are both in agreement that smoking should be a guarantee as part of the reservation instead of just a preference.

LisaSt
07-10-2004, 12:19 PM
As a non smoking family we love the thought of a fully non smoking resort that would be my preference. We have family members that do smoke but they willnot smoke in any room we get and do not even smoke on the balcony of the rooms. My dad and my FIL smaoke but do not do it around my children or around others they go off on their own to have a smoke as to respect others that do not smoke. I would love to see all WDW resorts become non smoking.

wdwstar
07-10-2004, 12:35 PM
We are not smokers and it doesnt bother me if dvc still has smoking rooms, i do think dvc should try a little harder to fill the request for a smoking room if being requested. all the restaurants are non smoking, lobbys, the gift stores and even by the pool except certain areas, where i really havent seen or been bothered by someone smoking. the smokers should be aloud to at least get a smoking room and have a place to smoke .

mickeymouse710
07-10-2004, 12:52 PM
As to maintenance costs, the costs would be down if you made it booze and child fee too. That is a silly arguement. The cost of maintenance is factored into our dues for all scenarios.
ITA!! I have seen a lot more damage done to DVC villas from kids then I have from smokers. We have been in many villas that have crayon & marker marks on the walls, furniture, bedspreads, etc., and scratches on the funiture from kids running matchbox cars and toys across the surfaces; juice stains on the carpet & furniture; and little footprints and scuff marks on the lower walls etc. We have never gotten a villa that had any evidence of burn marks, stained curtains, unpleasant odors, etc.

CaptainMidnight
07-10-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by mickeymouse710
ITA!! I have seen a lot more damage done to DVC villas from kids then I have from smokers. We have been in many villas that have crayon & marker marks on the walls, furniture, bedspreads, etc., and scratches on the funiture from kids running matchbox cars and toys across the surfaces; juice stains on the carpet & furniture; and little footprints and scuff marks on the lower walls etc. We have never gotten a villa that had any evidence of burn marks, stained curtains, unpleasant odors, etc.
We've had villas we could not sleep in due to a previous smoker causing smoke infiltration and terrible oder throughout the room triggering breathing problems. We've not had problems being able to sleep in a room due to scuff marks, etc. I don't believe being around children second hand causes cancer either. My understanding was that Walt intended WDW to be a place where children and adults could have fun together.

As a non smoking family we love the thought of a fully non smoking resort that would be my preference.
Agreed, this would be great. It wouldn't help those of us who are already owners in our respective resorts, but it would be nice.

I am interested, why do you think it crazy to iincrease the number of smoking rooms?
The number of smokers in the USA is decreasing. I don't know specifically if the number of smoking DVC members is decreasing. The number of rooms should match demand, if its increasing it should be more, if decreasing it should be less.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 02:59 PM
don't believe being around children second hand causes cancer either. My understanding was that Walt intended WDW to be a place where children and adults could have fun together.

Nope, no cancer from chiildren, but, you can get a nasty headache.

I just KNEW you would bring this up and invalidate the arguement about damage children do. But, the comment was in direct response to the comment about smokers causing higher maintenance costs, not the effects of being around them. :)

I have also not been able to sleep in a room, not Disney, because of the noxious odors from previous smokers, so, I can truly relate to the discomfort. The smell of stale nicotine was overwhelming.
Thankfully, I have never encountered that since, anywhere.

mickeymouse710
07-10-2004, 02:59 PM
Captain,
I was referring only to the point that was being made that maintenance costs for all situations are already incorporated into dues. We have seen more physical damage done in villas by kids then by smokers. I was not addressing second hand smoke, cancer dangers, etc., at all--just the maintenance cost to DVC members. We have also never had any serious health problems in a DVC villa--both in nonsmoking and smoking villas due to lingering smoke residue-- and I have asthma.
I completely understand how some would love to see all of the DVC resorts excatly perfect for "their" family; however the DVC is made up of many different groups with many different wants. All are members that pay the same dues and are entitled to the same enjoyment of their DVC membership.
I completely agree with you that the demand of smoking/nonsmoking rooms needs to meet the demand and should be adjusted accordingly. From many posts on this subject from both smokers and nonsmokers--it appears there is a need for more smoking dvc villas, not less.

Dean
07-10-2004, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
As to Dean's prediction, it is just that, a prediction. Actually more an an awareness of the FL political climate than a prediction. My statement was that it's possible, nothing more. I aslo think it's possible for DVC to do so independently as many of the newer Marriott's have or are going all non smoking.

Cigarette smoke has been proven to cause cancer, increase deaths including from asthma related issues, increase the risk and earlier onset of COPD and make children short that are exposed to it, among other things. These are irrefutable facts. However as long as it's legal to do so and there are smoking rooms, I have no problem with one smoking in a legal setting. The rooms should be reserved directly though and smoking should be forbidden in non smoking areas/buildings/untis, etc. Also cars and houses that have not been exposed to smoke sell for more though I'd assume the same could be said for those not associated with children. Smoking is not like the Ozone issue where the information is all smoke and mirrors.

The FL law says that any restaurant must be nonsmoking. The out is for a bar who has less than 10% sales as food and non alcoholics. Even then to keep a smoking license, they have to pay for an independent audit every 2 years out of their pocket. This is expected to cost a thousand dollars or more per audit. Smoking is also prohibited in all public indoor locations. Timeshares are to a certain extent private and as much as some would like to think otherwise, are even exempt to a certain extent from many of the ADA requirements much the same way as a private condo is somewhat exempt.

As for higher maint fees, I think it's hard to argue. But other things also increase fees. As long as it's within the rules, that's the price of membership. I don't use all the portions of DVC but pay for all of them in one way or another. One of the questions is at what point does a minority issue become unreasonable for the group to pay for. This is definitely the question with DVC and smoking, I don't have the answer though. Again referencing the fact that many Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking as well as the fact that DVC has continually reduced the number of smoking units at many, if not all of their resorts.

GAIL HAYDEN
07-10-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Dean
Actually more an an awareness of the FL political climate than a prediction. My statement was that it's possible, nothing more. I aslo think it's possible for DVC to do so independently as many of the newer Marriott's have or are going all non smoking.

Cigarette smoke has been proven to cause cancer, increase deaths including from asthma related issues, increase the risk and earlier onset of COPD and make children short that are exposed to it, among other things. These are irrefutable facts. However as long as it's legal to do so and there are smoking rooms, I have no problem with one smoking in a legal setting. The rooms should be reserved directly though and smoking should be forbidden in non smoking areas/buildings/untis, etc. Also cars and houses that have not been exposed to smoke sell for more though I'd assume the same could be said for those not associated with children. Smoking is not like the Ozone issue where the information is all smoke and mirrors.

The FL law says that any restaurant must be nonsmoking. The out is for a bar who has less than 10% sales as food and non alcoholics. Even then to keep a smoking license, they have to pay for an independent audit every 2 years out of their pocket. This is expected to cost a thousand dollars or more per audit. Smoking is also prohibited in all public indoor locations. Timeshares are to a certain extent private and as much as some would like to think otherwise, are even exempt to a certain extent from many of the ADA requirements much the same way as a private condo is somewhat exempt.

As for higher maint fees, I think it's hard to argue. But other things also increase fees. As long as it's within the rules, that's the price of membership. I don't use all the portions of DVC but pay for all of them in one way or another. One of the questions is at what point does a minority issue become unreasonable for the group to pay for. This is definitely the question with DVC and smoking, I don't have the answer though. Again referencing the fact that many Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking as well as the fact that DVC has continually reduced the number of smoking units at many, if not all of their resorts.

Nice post, Dean. :)
Anything is possible, it is the probability that gets to the heart of the matter.
Marriot may well go non smoking but, it is doubtful that Disney will go that route. Even if the smoking population that visits Disney is only 10% (just a rough number) they won't want to lose that. With so many different cultures visiting the "number one vacation spot in the world" they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.

I had no idea that DVC was exempt, to a certain extent, from ADA
requirements. What are they exempt and not exempt from ?

Dean
07-10-2004, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Nice post, Dean. :)
Anything is possible, it is the probability that gets to the heart of the matter.
Marriot may well go non smoking but, it is doubtful that Disney will go that route. Even if the smoking population that visits Disney is only 10% (just a rough number) they won't want to lose that. With so many different cultures visiting the "number one vacation spot in the world" they would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so.

I had no idea that DVC was exempt, to a certain extent, from ADA
requirements. What are they exempt and not exempt from ? There is possible and there is POSSIBLE. IMO for DVC and even most WDW resorst to go NS is POSSIBLE, meaning it truly could happen. I didn't specifically say that DVC was truly exempt from the ADA, that is a very complicated set of issues. What I said was that timeshare are different. And I think SSR, VB, HH and OKW would be different than BWV, BCV and VWL.

I'm not an ADA expert but let me give you an example. Marriott's Grande Ocean resort was having a number of people with pets list them as "service animals" much as you insinuated that people exagerated their smoking "allergies". The management there set out to crack down on this issue and went to the Marriott legal team. The legal team came back with a complicated docuement that essentially required guests to register their animals as service animals prior to the stay, put up a refundable deposit, expressly placed the responsibility for any damage on the animals owners and required liability insurance. I've previously posted more of the exact wording on this board. I am also told that many of the other Marriott resorts have this exact wording in their bylaws but I haven't seen or heard of it elsewhere. I questioned it because I ws curious as to the legalities though I do agree with the intent. I was told that the Marriott lawyers were very strong in their belief this was legal and it was cited that part of the reasoning was that a timeshare is a private entity and came under the same law as condo's not hotels. Obviously there are some gray areas due to the public rentals.

The thing that makes some of the DVC resorts a little different is the hotel plus timeshare issue for some but not for others.

To make my above post more clear, the food and non alcohol must be less than 10% of total sales for a bar to qualify.

I think the Marriott issue is directly related simply as a sign of the times. While a small percentage of people might be smokers but might represnt the profit margin. The real question is how many wouldn't go to WDW or would stay for a shorter time? Certainly only a small percentage of of the total smokers. And WDW would certainly pick up some revenue, decreased expenses due to lower maint and improved efficiency of unit assignments. Plus a healthier work enviroment for employees. Just for sake of discussion, Lets assume 17% of people are smokers (the number from FL a few years ago), and a change to nonsmoking decreased their visit days by 25%. Plus there was a 0.5-1% increase in non smoker visits directly attributable to the smoking ban. It's my guess that WDW in general would come out ahead in this scenario but it's simply a guess and you could play the numbers many different ways. I'm just trying to make a point that there are competing forces financially.

Bella2000
07-11-2004, 12:52 AM
This is an interesting post to read comparing it to the Cruise forum recent post on the subject. I'm not looking at it from a smoking or nonsmoking debate (hey I live in MA - been there seen that) but from the original question and Disney policy. I believe OP raised issue of not enough smoking rooms. On cruise while all staterooms are nonsmoking all verandas may be used for smoking as well of most of the open air areas. After hour smoking is also a bizarre concept to me how many people have been in a nightclub when everyone leaves - kinda smells doesn't it - how then does it become a non smoking family area :confused: - I'll have to check this out when I finally cruise but I digress. Very interesting position for DCL compared to DVC. I would have thought they would have been more stringent on DCL regarding smoking.
Cruise forum thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=601738)

Funniest post to me was Disney saying in their reply to a poster no cigars and then someone in an unrelated post saying you can buy cigars in a non smoking venue. :crazy: The duality of disney I guess.

I e-mailed DCL last night about their smoking policy, and got this stock reply this morning:

Thank you for your e-mail.

For the comfort and enjoyment of our guests, the Disney Magic and Disney Wonder have been primarily designated as non-smoking ships. However, we recognize that some of our guests smoke. Therefore, to provide an onboard atmosphere that also satisfies smokers, we have designated smoking areas in Beat Street/Route 66 lounges, all open-air decks, and on private verandahs. Disney Cruise Line asks all guests to please observe the non-smoking areas and to refrain from smoking pipes and/or cigars in any of the public areas. These requests are made to provide a comfortable shipboard living atmosphere for everyone. We hope these efforts demonstrate that we have addressed our non-smoking guests' needs as while as providing options for our adult guests who want to smoke. Your comments will be shared with the appropriate management teams.

We look forward to the chance to sail with you.

Sincerely,

Tracey, Guest Communications
Disney Cruise Line

GAIL HAYDEN
07-11-2004, 08:25 AM
Dean,
Yes, there is possible and POSSIBLE and then there is probable and PROBABLE. :) While it may be POSSIBLE I do doubt that it is PROBABLE.

As to the ADA, I am sorry, I did misread. Thanks for the clarification.

Dean
07-11-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Dean,
Yes, there is possible and POSSIBLE and then there is probable and PROBABLE. :) While it may be POSSIBLE I do doubt that it is PROBABLE.

As to the ADA, I am sorry, I did misread. Thanks for the clarification. I'd guess it's about a 40% chance of at least one resort in the DVC system going totally non smoking. I'd think OKW would be the least likely to do so unless the entire system went NS and that's due to it's building arrangement and large size.

Bill K
07-11-2004, 08:56 AM
Wow! We should use all this "BRAIN POWER" to solve world hunger!

baileybrad
07-11-2004, 09:52 AM
I have been bouncing around reading various sections of this thread.

The original poster mused that he, and his smoking spouse in particular, felt shafted by their inability to land a SMOKING (I corrected a typo that orginally had N/S instead of smoking)
room when checking-in at OKW and VWL on 2 recent vacations. This led him to wonder if the DVC was shrinking the amount of N/S rooms available at the DVC resorts with the possibility that would eventually lead to virtually none being offerred. He referred to the opportunity to smoke on vacation as a luxury, mentioned that smokers were getting shafted by the DVC and finally wondered if there aren't more DVC members out there who smoke than we think.

Obviously, I could have just copied his entire post but I chose to just summarize the original posting and am going to throw out some random thoughts on the "lack" of "smoking optional rooms" available to those who choose to smoke on their DVC vacations vs. the "lack" of N/S rooms for those that can't stand the thought of spending one minute in a S/O room. Our family belongs to the non-smoking group.

Based on the response to this thread....there was no huge outcry for the lack of S/O rooms.

Smoking is a legal activity and should be allowed and not frowned upon in one's S/O accommodations.

Lots of folks appear to be getting a tad more slick at using a medical condition as an "excuse' to land a smoke-free room.

I agree with those that think that smoking preference should be
just like unit size and be a "guarantee" not a request. Two things with this approach might work, you could leave a pool of unreserved units of various sizes or only allow for say 75% of folks to be guaranteed their breathing preference due to the way check-outs are not exact ie., not a week to week timeshare. The "pool plan" would most likely work but would cause some to not have a vacation. That could also, in the near term, cost the Mouse money and us too which....well, we all know that is the largest cause of most problems that folks have when getting Disney proper to address any somewhat controversial issue. The 75% cut-off would make the 11 month window even more valuable but would not solve the OP's problem or non-smokers getting a S/O room. That could/would still occur.

I have never understood why smoking should be "allowed" on the balcony of a N/S unit. It is a smokers right to smoke their lungs out to their hearts' desires inside the confines of their S/O unit and on the balcony of the same. But, I would hazard a guess, that most non-smokers never in their wildest dreams would find it logical to have someone smoking on their adjoining balcony in a N/S building. I, too, believe that this Disney "waffle" should be stopped. It causes nothing but more resentment between the folks.

I wish that there were outside designated smoking areas at the DVC resorts just like in the parks. This would give those smokers that get stuck in a N/S unit a place to smoke without being hassled. This would obviously be an inconvenience but it is clear that the politicos have taken this issue by the horns and your side appears to be losing.

It is nearly impossible to undo a N/S room that has been smoked in for any length of time short of opening the windows for a couple of days and using a smoke zapper type device. Wiping down the walls, cabinets, etc., is also needed.

The maintenance issue is a good one. I never knew that only kids make messes. You obviously, have never met my spouse or my friends spouses. Wear and tear is a fact of life but the damage to a room caused by smoking is more subtle and not as obvious as a spilled drink or even a mark on the wall. I would just not do as much upkeep on the smoking optional rooms. How much worse can a smokey carpet smell or how much yellow stain on a wall is too much?

Has anyone ever experienced the smoke smell coming through the bathroom venting system of a non-smoking when the ole bladder feels up at 3 in morning and one is sitting there contemplating the meaning of life? Seems that some smokers can't fight the temptation to light up in a N/S room.

Most agree that smokers are definitely in the minority when it comes to DVC membership. But I believe that as a percentage of the 2 groups that there about as many inconsiderate smokers as there are radical non-smokers. The more that can be done to keep the 2 apart, the better. That is why that smoking on a N/S balcony idea is a bad one.

I, personally, have read more posts from folks on these boards who got "stuck" with a S/O room than the other way around. This happened to us in early June and we had to fight to get moved the next day to a N/S room. It is obvious that is happens both ways. I feel the DVC should be much more accommodating in getting these folks moved as soon as possible in their vacation with as little impostion on the guest as possible. Moving is a pain but, with the present system, sometimes unavoidable.

FInally, a smoker who can't get their preference can still smoke "legally" in many areas of Disney, etc. A N/S doesn't have the "luxury" of sleeping in another location, that is the purpose of their room. When it comes to being "shafted", it appears that the non-smoker has a much greater risk of being impacted adversely than the smoker does when staying at the DVC under the current smoking/non-smoking request "rules".(I corrected a typo that originally has N/S instead of Smoking)

jarestel
07-11-2004, 10:08 AM
baileybrad,

----------------------------------------------
I agree with those that think that smoking preference should be
just like unit size and be a "guarantee" not a request. But, unless you leave a pool of unreserved units of various sizes or only allow for say 75% of folks to be guaranteed their breathing preference.
------------------------------------------------

No need to do this. For example, let's say our "resort" has 100 rooms. 30 are designated smoking and 70 are non-smoking. If you attempt to make a reservation for a non-smoking room, MS should be able to tell you that there are no non-smoking units available at the time you call for the reservation. ( if we make smoking-non smoking guaranteed categories of course ) At this point your options are: accept a smoking optional room, waitlist for a non-smoking unit, or look for a reservation at a different resort.

-----------------------------------------------
I have never understood why smoking should be "allowed" on the balcony of a N/S unit.
------------------------------------------------

We don't smoke, but we travel often with family and friends who do smoke. Though I would prefer they didn't smoke at all, the fact is they do and I'm not about to tell them to walk a mile through the woods where there will be a tree with a red trunk and to smoke there. Smoking outside on balconies is a compromise we have to make, so that's the way it goes.


----------------------------------------------------
Has anyone ever experienced the smoke smell coming through the bathroom venting system of a non-smoking
-----------------------------------------------------

I haven't. Not saying it doesn't happen, but hasn't affected me.

-------------------------------------------------------
I, personally, have read more posts from folks on these boards who got "stuck" with a S/O room than the other way around.
--------------------------------------------------------

Which is why MS needs to make smoking-non smoking rooms guaranteed reserveable room categories.

CaptainMidnight
07-11-2004, 07:31 PM
The problem is that cigarettes are an addictive drug. Most of those that are addicted cannot go for a several day stay without the adiction causing them to need to smoke. It's not like avoiding wearing jeans for a week, or someting else one could easily stop for a few days. When smokers don't get a smoking room, they have to smoke somewhere.

No need to do this. For example, let's say our "resort" has 100 rooms. 30 are designated smoking and 70 are non-smoking. If you attempt to make a reservation for a non-smoking room, MS should be able to tell you that there are no non-smoking units available at the time you call for the reservation. ( if we make smoking-non smoking guaranteed categories of course ) At this point your options are: accept a smoking optional room, waitlist for a non-smoking unit, or look for a reservation at a different resort.

This is an excellent idea and allows smokers and non-smokers the choice. It makes perfect sense. The problem is arriving and not being guaranteed IMHO.
Originally posted by jarestel
baileybrad,
Which is why MS needs to make smoking-non smoking rooms guaranteed reserveable room categories.
Agreed.

LisaSt
07-11-2004, 07:48 PM
In Ontario Canada all our hotels if I remember correctly the rooms are all non smoking well the hotels I have stayed in in the past few years. We have no smoking laws here to rival most places. No smoking in bars restaurants and malls etc and this is also including hotels. I think it is a great idea as a non smoker and I love not having to worry if the room I am in is a smoking or non smoking room. The smokers have areas they can go to have a smoke just not indoors. Not even in our office buildings can you smoke anymore.

sweetp267
07-11-2004, 11:39 PM
Baileybrad:

This is the "original poster" of this topic. I am not trying to start an argument nor am I trying to flame you about anything. However, if you want to reference me specifically, please get your facts straight before you post the following:

------------------------------------------------------------------
The original poster mused that he, and his smoking spouse in particular, felt shafted by their inability to land a N/S room when checking-in at OKW and VWL on 2 recent vacations. This led him to wonder if the DVC was shrinking the amount of N/S rooms available at the DVC resorts with the possibility that would eventually lead to virtually none being offerred. He referred to the opportunity to smoke on vacation as a luxury, mentioned that smokers were getting shafted by the DVC and finally wondered if there aren't more DVC members out there who smoke than we think.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

If you go back and read my original post, you will see that I wanted a SMOKING OPTIONAL room not a N/S room. I believe that this error would change your overall point you were trying to make. I was slightly miffed that in 2 trips in a row we were dinied a SMOKING OPTIONAL room. That was the whole point of my post. Once again I am not trying to start a war or anything here. I just want the facts to be straight. I wouldn't have seen this posting if I didn't notice how many responses this post has generated. I unsubscribed from this thread long ago.

Dean
07-12-2004, 04:51 AM
One thing I don't believe has been brought up in this thread is that DVC has been steadily decreasing the number of smoking units, especiaally at HH and OKW. That could mean only two things. Either there are less requests and need overall for smoking units or DVC is purposefully heading toward non smoking, or both. No other reasonable explanations. But just like BW view units, there may be times when the requests outweigh the availability.

CaptainMidnight
07-12-2004, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by baileybrad
...I have never understood why smoking should be "allowed" on the balcony of a N/S unit. It is a smokers right to smoke their lungs out to their hearts' desires inside the confines of their S/O unit and on the balcony of the same. But, I would hazard a guess, that most non-smokers never in their wildest dreams would find it logical to have someone smoking on their adjoining balcony in a N/S building. I, too, believe that this Disney "waffle" should be stopped. It causes nothing but more resentment between the folks.

...I wish that there were outside designated smoking areas at the DVC resorts just like in the parks. This would give those smokers that get stuck in a N/S unit a place to smoke without being hassled. This would obviously be an inconvenience but it is clear that the politicos have taken this issue by the horns and your side appears to be losing.

...FInally, a smoker who can't get their preference can still smoke "legally" in many areas of Disney, etc. A N/S doesn't have the "luxury" of sleeping in another location, that is the purpose of their room. When it comes to being "shafted", it appears that the non-smoker has a much greater risk of being impacted adversely than the smoker does when staying at the DVC under the current smoking/non-smoking request "rules".
Great points, I agree.

Desperado
07-12-2004, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Dean
One thing I don't believe has been brought up in this thread is that DVC has been steadily decreasing the number of smoking units, especiaally at HH and OKW. That could mean only two things. Either there are less requests and need overall for smoking units or DVC is purposefully heading toward non smoking, or both. No other reasonable explanations. But just like BW view units, there may be times when the requests outweigh the availability.
How do you know this? Is this different than the hotel industry? Are they also decreasing? Are other Disney hotels decreasing the number of smoking rooms?

"DVC is purposefully heading toward non smoking" - boy, that would be a big change for DVC. Anyone else see this as the reason?

Interesting information.

Dean
07-13-2004, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by Desperado
How do you know this? Is this different than the hotel industry? Are they also decreasing? Are other Disney hotels decreasing the number of smoking rooms?

"DVC is purposefully heading toward non smoking" - boy, that would be a big change for DVC. Anyone else see this as the reason?

Interesting information. I think you misread my post. The fact is that DVC HAS decreased the number of smoking units at HH and OKW for certain, I am not sure about the other locations. For them to actively do this, I can only think of two explanation. As I posted, these are either there is less demand OR intentionally heading toward non smoking. Frankly I favor the former and doubt the latter.

LoveToDisney
07-13-2004, 11:09 AM
Being a non-smoker and one whose throat tightens around smoke residue or fragrance to the point of squeaking until I can get away from it to breathe, I would like the ability to reserve a guaranteed non-smoking room at 11 months out as much as the smoker wants to reserve a guaranteed smoking room. I think if DVC dedicated a certain number to non-smoking (based on the number of usual requests) and would GUARANTEE THOSE and then leave the remaining as "smoking optional", one could decide if a guaranteed room of choice was not available whether one wanted to go another time, another resort or choose to chance it with a smoking-optional room. The present system does as much damage to both sides of the smoking issue regarding their peace of mind and it is definitely NOT FAIR to either! I think the hassles at the check-in desk would diminish tremendously and the disappointments in getting the wrong room! Each time a non-smoker reserves EARLY and gets stuck in a smoking -optional room and the smoker who reserves EARLY is stuck in a non-smoking room, it MAKES NO SENSE!! DISNEY--PLEASE LISTEN TO US!!! You must change your reservation system to guarantee some of the rooms regarding the smoking preference.

IAMLEGEND
07-13-2004, 01:08 PM
I am a cigar smoking fool, but i would never even think about smoking in my room for my familys sake and the next renters. I love my cigars and the way they help me relax. you can find me on every trip at 9pm on the last bench on the Boardwalk near the piano bar enjoying a smoke, will be there 8-1 to 8-5 2004 mention this post and i will have a good cigar for you to enjoy with me!!!!!!

Dancind
07-13-2004, 03:19 PM
GAIL HAYDEN, I've seen you post before about your allergies to perfume, and I've been tempted to reply, but I usually try to avoid disagreements on the boards. It's just so ironic. I am also very allergic to perfume, but I also react to cigarette smoke, cleaning solvents, pesticides, etc., in fact, most chemicals. I had long term, low level exposure to some pesticides at work, and it made me very sick. The very first thing I reacted to was cigarette smoke. I would cough my head off, get horrible headaches, then eventually a low-grade fever and swollen glands. It affected me mentally as well as physically. Let's just say I was very irritable.

The second thing I started reacting to was fragrance. I quickly learned that not all fragrance bothered me, just the chemical based ones (almost all of them, especially Calvin Klein!). If it's natural fragrance, I'm OK. Here's the reason they bothered me: the manufacturers create them from chemicals, including a number of addictive chemicals that are the same ones added to nicotine. It's what keeps people buying their product, and wearing more and more of it over time (just like cigarettes). I wish I could tell you where to find this information (short term memory loss), but I think it's still out there. My Dr. told me that you can be loading up on all sorts of chemicals (food additives, dry cleaning solvent, fabric softener, etc, etc), and only a few will cause an immediate reaction, but they are all doing the same thing to your body if you are sensitive. And eventually, you will react to them all. It will be interesting to see what you have to say about smoking when your body begins to react to it the same way it does to fragrance.

I've gotten better, as you suggested, by avoidance. Lots of it, pretty much a hermit for quite a while.

I had to take my daughter to a dance convention in Las Vegas last week. Vegas is the most unhealthy city on the planet, IMHO. I got a non-smoking room, was only in crowds for as short of time as possible, and avoided the casinos. Last Saturday, I decided to take my daughter and a friend to an OUTDOOR concert. I'm not sure what I was thinking. It was at the Beach at Mandalay Bay. We got there early, marked a spot with our towels on the beach, and the girls went to wade in the pool. Gorgeous setting. During the concert, they stayed right in front of the band. I stayed on the towels, so they would know where I was if they needed me. Meanwhile, the whole beach filled up, and I had several chain smokers around me (all of them young, attractive women, why is that?). A couple did blow their smoke away from me at my request, but I had a headache that lasted a full day after, and coughed quite a bit that night. I'm still coughing today, three days later.

By the way, you Febreze lovers. If you have anyone with allergies in your family, please remember that all you're doing is spraying perfumes into the air when you use it.

And my apologies to the OP. Obviously, I don't ask for smoking rooms, but was given one once on check-in at BWV. They found us a NS studio for the night until they could get us the reserved NS 1 BR. I didn't want to be sick for the rest of the trip.

Dan Murfman
07-13-2004, 03:44 PM
(all of them young, attractive women, why is that?).

I don't know I've seen plenty of old ugly men smoke.

baileybrad
07-13-2004, 03:51 PM
...the fingers get a little confused....along with the brain. Obviously, the original poster wanted a SMOKING ROOM and my entire response was directed to that fact. A typo was made that in no way opened up the OP to any kind of abuse. I bent over backward to stay balanced in my approach to the available number of smoking rooms and non-smoking rooms at the DVC resorts. And, as I mentioned, we have been "burned" by receiving a SMOKING OPTIONAL room when we desperately need a N/S unit.

Another option available if the DVC went totally non-smoking would be to buy back the points from any owners who did not wish to deal with the direction that Disney and many governmental agencies are going.

Smoking areas seem to be shrinking everywhere (the only proof that I have is my own eyes and nose). Many of our local restaurants are now totally non-smoking (and we bump right up against good ole Kentucky) and tout this fact in their advertisements. These places are packed by the way. Virtually all of the parents in our church, at work, and in our kids sports circles that have young families do not smoke.

It is weird that a legal habit ie., smoking a cigarette around other folks has become such an issue in our lives that it even affects our timeshare enjoyment....either way. It is so clear that the winds of change regarding smoking are blowing right in the direction of the smokers at the present time. Does anyone really see this pattern lessening?

As most posters seem to agree, I just wish that the DVC would be more upfront and become a leader about the entire issue with consistent policies and moving forward with making the smoking request part of the guaranteed reservation.

Desperado
07-13-2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Dean
[B]I think you misread my post. The fact is that DVC HAS decreased the number of smoking units at HH and OKW for certain,

How do you know this?


Is this different than the hotel industry? Are they also decreasing? Are other Disney hotels decreasing the number of smoking rooms?

I am not sure about the other locations.

OK. Still would be interesting to know if this is a trend in all Disney (DVC and others) resorts.

For them to actively do this, I can only think of two explanation. As I posted, these are either there is less demand OR intentionally heading toward non smoking. Frankly I favor the former and doubt the latter.

Oh, that makes sense because your earlier statement

"DVC is purposefully heading toward non smoking" (one of 2 options)

....that would be a big change for DVC.

Anyone else see the above statement as the reason?

Dean
07-13-2004, 06:57 PM
Desperado, I know about the decrease in smoking units at OKW and HH from this board. If I recall correctly, there are no longer any GV smoking units at HH. I think the number of smoking buildings at OKW has decreased to 4. I think Doc would be your best source of specific info on this subject. I always assumed it was due to less demand and still essentially assume that.

As for the hotel industry, I can't speak intelligently in general. As I noted earlier, a number of timeshares including some Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking.

Desperado
07-14-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Dean
Desperado, I know about the decrease in smoking units at OKW and HH from this board. If I recall correctly, there are no longer any GV smoking units at HH. I think the number of smoking buildings at OKW has decreased to 4. I think Doc would be your best source of specific info on this subject. I always assumed it was due to less demand and still essentially assume that.

As for the hotel industry, I can't speak intelligently in general. As I noted earlier, a number of timeshares including some Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking.
I see. I hadn't seen posts about the number of smoking rooms in OKW and HH being reduced, thanks for sharing. I also didn't realize some Marriott's have or are in the process of going all non smoking. Perhaps it is a trend. We're certainly seeing entire cities post smoking bands for businesses, it would be interesting to learn if demand is decreasing. Maybe the trend for other DVC resorts will be to reduce the number of smoking rooms. At Vero Beach, the top floor of building 15, the rooms with the best views in that building are smoking rooms. Parhaps decreased demand will open some of those great view rooms to non-smokers.

FLYNZ4
07-14-2004, 10:41 PM
Just as a datapoint... All 50+ WorldMark timeshare resorts, and all 3 Trendwest Residence Club resorts have gone 100% non-smoking. Just like here, there were heated debates in the user communities that it would never happen... even though the vast majority prefered non smoking.

I think that DVC will be non-smoking much more quickly than most believe... based on what I see as overwhelming industry trends.

/Jim

CRobin
07-15-2004, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by FLYNZ4
Just as a datapoint... All 50+ WorldMark timeshare resorts, and all 3 Trendwest Residence Club resorts have gone 100% non-smoking. Just like here, there were heated debates in the user communities that it would never happen... even though the vast majority prefered non smoking.

I think that DVC will be non-smoking much more quickly than most believe... based on what I see as overwhelming industry trends.

/Jim

Good info, Jim.

Question - how do they handle the issue, which comes up here alot, about someone smoking in a unit as they are now all N/S?

I am a smoker, and have never smoked (nor never would) in a N/S unit, subjecting my DW and asthmatic ILs (frequent guests of ours at WDW) to that.

I do smoke on the balconies, because it is permitted, but if I notice that it is bothering someone I hike downstairs and go outside.

dianeschlicht
07-15-2004, 07:09 AM
CRobin, I wish all smokers were like you. Part of the issue for those of us who are asthmatic is the residue smoke leaves in things like furniture, drapes and woodwork.

As a non-smoker I do believe we NEED smoking optional buildings just to keep smokers from smoking in non-smoking buildings.

Dean
07-15-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by CRobin
Good info, Jim.

Question - how do they handle the issue, which comes up here alot, about someone smoking in a unit as they are now all N/S? I believe I read about a $250 fine per incident for Grande Ocean but my quarterly newsletter mentioned that all newly redone units will be NS doesn't mention specifics penalties. It's easy to set up controls and penalties, the hard think is enforcing them. Unfortunately DVC and Disney in general has never been good at enforcing the rules in place.

dianeschlicht
07-15-2004, 02:11 PM
I definitely agree with those statements, Dean! If they can't prevent smokers from smoking in lines, how are they going to police it in the privacy of a N/S room?

FLYNZ4
07-15-2004, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by CRobin
Good info, Jim.

Question - how do they handle the issue, which comes up here alot, about someone smoking in a unit as they are now all N/S?

I am a smoker, and have never smoked (nor never would) in a N/S unit, subjecting my DW and asthmatic ILs (frequent guests of ours at WDW) to that.

I do smoke on the balconies, because it is permitted, but if I notice that it is bothering someone I hike downstairs and go outside.
CRobin,

The new policy has only gone into effect in April'04, so I have not heard about infractions yet. They have an existing policy of being able to charge an occupant for any damage caused during their stay... and I would think (but I do not know for sure), that they could impose a nice hefty defumigation fee... and possibly charge for unbookable nights if it is abused.

I think that most people will follow a no-smoking rule, especially if they know that they could be held liable for extra charges. There might be some resistance at first... but I think the problems would be short lived.

Like I said earlier... I think it is inevitable that our units will all be no-smoking... it is the timeline that is harder to predict. I'd estimate they will be non-smoking within 2 years.

/Jim

baileybrad
07-15-2004, 08:22 PM
Not trying to get ahead of something that has not and may not happen. We have stayed at 2 particular privately owned hotels that (one in Daytona Beach and one in N.Myrtle Beach) have you sign an "authorization notice" when staying in a N/S unit that outlines their policy....cleaning fees, etc. for smoking in one of the units. Obviously, you are on an honor system and not sure how it would unfold but they both had the mechanisms in place and made quite the big deal out of it.

adriannabannana
08-23-2004, 09:25 AM
The only problem I've experienced with this issue is twice during two different stays I booked non-smoking rooms and ended up with someone smoking on the balcony next to me. In both cases, I asked the person nicely not to smoke on the balcony if we were out there, and they obliged. The only crappy part was that if they smoked when we had our door open (we tend to go in October so we can enjoy the nighttime breeze and fireworks) we end up with a room that's stinky of smoke.

I think all of the previous suggestions are excellent ones to pose to Disney Co., and that keeping an area of rooms as smoking would solve a lot of complaints by non-smoking guests. I really feel that making the entire resort non-smoking will only encourage more smoking in areas that will directly affect everyone, like walk ways and balconies through out the resort.

By the way, I myself am a reformed smoker (seven years and counting), and I empathize with both sides equally.

JMHO.

DebbieB
08-23-2004, 11:37 AM
I was looking at the Sheraton Vistana website because allearsnet was offering a discount for October and I was curious to see how they were set up. According to their website, they do not offer non-smoking rooms!

http://www.starwood.com/sheraton/search/hotel_detail.html?propertyID=5608

DukeStreetKing
08-23-2004, 12:07 PM
I think this thread was 3 replies old before it turned into the smoker/non-smoker debate that the OP didn't want. LOL.

NMW
08-23-2004, 08:30 PM
I learned some interesting info reading this thread. We are new to DVC and have not stayed at a DVC resort yet. We have stayed at several non-DVC resorts at Disney and have always requested non-smoking and got it. Both myself and DS 5, have pretty bad asthma. I now know from reading this thread to make that very clear when I make the reservation at our DVC resort. I would be happy to provide letters from our doctors at check-in to insure the n/s room for medical reasons. Thanks to all who mentioned this. :D

Dean
08-23-2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by NMW
I learned some interesting info reading this thread. We are new to DVC and have not stayed at a DVC resort yet. We have stayed at several non-DVC resorts at Disney and have always requested non-smoking and got it. Both myself and DS 5, have pretty bad asthma. I now know from reading this thread to make that very clear when I make the reservation at our DVC resort. I would be happy to provide letters from our doctors at check-in to insure the n/s room for medical reasons. Thanks to all who mentioned this. :D I've asked about documenation as we're in the same boat. I was told it wouldn't make any difference. I wish they would reserve them separately, hopfully some day.

The only problem I've experienced with this issue is twice during two different stays I booked non-smoking rooms and ended up with someone smoking on the balcony next to me. In both cases, I asked the person nicely not to smoke on the balcony if we were out there, and they obliged. The only crappy part was that if they smoked when we had our door open (we tend to go in October so we can enjoy the nighttime breeze and fireworks) we end up with a room that's stinky of smoke.
That's what my super soaker is for, LOL.

lovesdisney
08-24-2004, 02:36 AM
My DH smokes, which is his choice, and although we request a smoking room every time we book, (its our only request), we have only had a smoking room about half the time.

My DH is one of those who will smoke on the balcony with the blessing of CM's at check in as it is hard to give up for a couple of weeks when you are are a smoker who enjoys the 'pleasure'.

If there are fewer and fewer smoking rooms, then requesting a smoking room ought to be a room choice rather than a request.

I also think DVC should be more upfront about how many smoking rooms there are and buy back ownership from those people who can't/don't want to spend their vacation in a non smoking room.

After all, if ever we stay in a hotel, we ask for guaranteed smoking room, if we can't have it, then we don't stay there.

I don't want this to turn into rights/wrongs of smoking, the fact is it's not an illegal pastime and everyone should have the right to smoke/not smoke as they wish. (With the proviso that smokers are considerate with smoking etc. when non-smokers are artound).

disneynutpa
08-24-2004, 09:40 AM
It is not only the smoking thing that doesn't get honered, we , my DW and I, reserved a two bedroom lockout, (one bedroom with a door to a studio, two entry doors) as opposed to a two bedroom villa ten months before our arrival date. When checking in the desk told us we were getting our smoking two bedroom lockout. When the room was ready it was a two bedroom villa with one entry.

We have older sons, and the idea of the the two entries was to allow us both our convenience. The most annoying thing was the attitude of the front desk, that we were being upgraded, and why were we complaining? After twenty minutes or so of repeating that it is not an "upgrade" to get something you don't want, we were offered to move to the accomodation we had reserved two days later, but were pretty much assured that it would be non smoking. The desk person would not give me a written acknowledgement of the move, and I had to wait for the hotel manager to give me a piece of paper hand written, detailing the move and rooms. They couldn't understand why I wouldn't just take their word for it!

Bottom line - while member services makes the reservation, and marks the requests, it appears that the front desk run by the hotel manager is less that dedicated to the Disney level of service that we have come to expect.

We bought the vacation club thinking that we were securing the vacation we had come to love for forty one years, it appears that the "paying" customers at the hotel get better service.


Tartaglias at VWL

CarolA
08-24-2004, 09:52 AM
I don't smoke. However, I also don't think that gives me the right to dictate to those who do.

Those of you who want to outlaw smoking need to consider this... what's next. Let's outlaw drinking at DVC, so we won't have anyone drunk? Let's outlaw small children in upper floors so I won't have to listen to them? Until smoking becomes illegal in all places they will smoke!

By the way, Vistana which is a huge Timeshare in Orlando does NOT have any units as dedicated non smoking according to posters on the Orlando resorts board.

All you are doing is driving the smokers outside. They will be in front of your unit and on the balcony now! They are not going to quit just because those of us who don't smoke don't like it. (And Disney is NOT going to refuse thier cash!)

I agree with the poster on the foreign aspect. The "anti-smoking" crusade is MUCH greater here then in Europe. Disney isn't going to chase that money off either! (Most of the hotels I have stayed in while visiting Europe don't even have a non-smoking option!)

adriannabannana
08-24-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Dean


That's what my super soaker is for, LOL.

That line made me snarf coffee so bad that I bet it'll be hours until I stop coughing.
lolololololol!!!:p

CarolA, basically you're saying exactly what I've been saying. I think they should always have units that are smoking (unless laws are passes that prohibit smoking altogether), and it would probably benefit everyone if the shared balconies were smoking as well. It will mean that a little though will have to go into reorganizing the floor plans, but it'll prevent people from having issues and enhance everyone's experience.

In the meantime, we all have to remind ourselves of why we come to Disney, and keep the friendly neighbor attitudes in our hearts when we share spaces together. I've personally found that, with the right approach, everyone vacationing at Disney is more than happy to accomodate the consideration of others. It's only when someone continues to ignore the discomfort of others when they've already been approached that I'd make an issue out of it with the management. I don't care if it's wild children/smoking in non-smoking areas/fall-down drunkeness/farting in close quarters; rudeness and inconsideration is what steams me up.

(sorry for the blog)

pennilessinpa
10-01-2004, 05:51 PM
What galled me was all of the people, especially at Epcot who felt free to smoke wherever and whenver they pleased. While I never saw anyone smoke in lines, I saw people smoke right outside the rides (within site of CMs) with no ashtrays in sight.

I hate smoke, my mother died from smoking and my 2 uncles are dying from it now). I know that clouds my opinion, buy why should non-smokers have to put up with smoking all over the place? Why doens't WDW enforce the rules that they have in place? Parks, common places, and rooms included!

goofy4dvc
10-01-2004, 06:07 PM
I do not smoke and don't like being around those who do either, but I think it's difficult to enforce no smoking in an outdoor environment. It's a different story inside buildings.

pennilessinpa
10-01-2004, 06:12 PM
I agree about enforcement in general when outdoors,
but ...

when it's done right in front of the cast members, maybe the people don't knpow the rules and just need to be told.

In the alternative, when they see it happen, they should say something to the offenders.

I hate when they fling the cigarettes to the ground with no consideration to the strollers and or other people standing nearby.

Patty3
10-01-2004, 06:34 PM
What bothers me the most, is when folks either flick their ashes and do not look to see where the ashes are going, or when they start gesturing with a cigarette in their hand and do not look to see if anyone is close by. My kids in strollers were almost burned by cigarettes because of the carelessness of some smokers. I am not against smokers, I used to be one of them, it is the carelessness and disregard for others that some smokers display while smoking that really makes my blood boil, be it smoking in non smoking rooms or non designated areas.

CarolA
10-01-2004, 06:50 PM
Keep in mind that some of the guests may be from other countries. Most of the rest of the world does not have very strict anti-smoking (or ANY anti-smoking) For example in Paris if you get a non smoking resturant table it could be the table next to the smoking section and surrounded by smokers. It doesn't have an ashtry so it's NONsmoking LOL!


I don't blame the CMs. Some of these smokers get flat out rude when asked to stop. I once saw a guest cuss out a CM at Canada during the Off Kilter show when she asked him to move. (Said it was a free country and it was his right and she could go to you know where, but he did wander off)

Simba's Girl
10-01-2004, 07:28 PM
What appals me is the fact that some people (me) are allergic to that said smoke. So the smoking in the NS rooms would really really get me all hot n bothered...

WOW
10-01-2004, 08:20 PM
We have been to WDW so many times over the past 20 years that we lost count!!!! We are smokers and are very considerate of others, which we find to be the norm. We rarely see anyone smoke in non-designated areas and find it odd that some people always see someone smoking where they shouldn't be smoking!!!!!

As has been said on this board so many times, there are so many negative things that people vent about, and we don't hear too much about the really good things.

Happy Birthday Cat
10-01-2004, 09:04 PM
Take a look at this "ongoing topic" at the top of the page on smoking at DVC resorts.

Smoking Thread (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=575187)

HBC

Desperado
10-02-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by WOW
We have been to WDW so many times over the past 20 years that we lost count!!!! We are smokers and are very considerate of others, which we find to be the norm. We rarely see anyone smoke in non-designated areas and find it odd that some people always see someone smoking where they shouldn't be smoking!!!!!

As has been said on this board so many times, there are so many negative things that people vent about, and we don't hear too much about the really good things.
Unfortunately, this doesn't really apply to those smokers who are smoking in non-smoking rooms, ruining others vacation accomodations. That is far from considerate.

vonderbar
10-24-2004, 04:27 AM
Just got back from stay at Beach Club. I had a studio non-smoking room. It seems the room next to ours was a smoking room, as the odor filtered into mine. When I questioned front desk about this, I was told that it could be possible. They offered to change my room, but this was near the end of our stay. We put towels under the adjoining room's door, to reduce the odor.
In the future, I will make sure to request non-smoking room all the way around me.

lenshanem
10-24-2004, 07:58 AM
How odd. An adjoining room that is smoking, but yours not?
That doesn't make sense.

Dean
10-24-2004, 08:21 AM
There are only two explanations. Either they gave you a smoking unit or someone was smoking in a non smoking unit. And a CM may have told them it was OK, it has happend before. Now where's my double barrel super soaker, I can't find it right now. Seriously, if I were in your situation, I would complain to MS giving them the room number and date. Any CM who allows a smoker to smoke in a non smoking unit should be fired and any member who does it on their own should be fined $250 first offense, $500 second offense (even if the same day or stay) and $1000 for the third offense. After that they should be banned from staying at DVC. But it's not going to happen unless MS hears about it from those who care.

Just one more example to tell us DVC needs to book the smoking preference as locked in reservations.

Lori2816
10-25-2004, 08:46 AM
I guess we'll have to have meetings to agree on those $ amounts. Just out of curiosity, how much will the fines be for those that cause damage to the rooms or steal supplies from the rooms? Will these people be "evicted" from DVC also?

smjj
10-25-2004, 09:03 AM
I bite my tounge every time one of these post comes up but here goes anyway(i'am weak today). As a non-smoker, smokers really do not have any idea how revolting the smell can be. If you are around it all the time you adjust to the foul smell. If I had requested a non-smoking room like you and I have for our trip in 3 weeks and I smell smoke, you can bet I will be on the phone or at the front desk ASAP. Now I have finally said it and will probably regret it..smjj

ellyn2000
10-25-2004, 10:17 AM
Don't feel bad about telling the truth. I'm a more recent non smoker who has quit after many years. I have to hold my breath to walk into my building because of the "smoking section" outside the entrance. I even gag when I walk behind someone who's just been outside on a smoke break. This isn't picking on smokers because I LOVE cigarettes. I just don't want to die that way. I also thought I could really smell smoke when I was a smoker but that is not at all true now that I'm so much more aware of how it smells. It feels so wonderful to be free of cigarettes that I can't even describe it. If I was in a room where I had to smell smoke I think I'd really show my bad side to the CM. I don't think I could take it.

DisZip
10-25-2004, 10:56 AM
I had the same reaction as lenshanem, that it would not make sense to have smoking and non-smoking as connected lock-off rooms.

So I checked my map of the 4th floor (the only floor at BCV with designated smoking rooms) and there are no non-smoking lock-off rooms with adjoining smoking rooms. My map could be wrong, but I don't think so.

vonderbar, do you happen to remember your room number?

spiceycat
10-25-2004, 10:56 AM
I am allergic to smoke - get asthma and break out in a rash - so it is a pretty serious condition for me.

I don't think trying to get rid of smokers is the answer here.

first I go ask them to stop - in between coughs - they seem to realize that I am not joking.

I haven't had a problem after that if I did.

Security should be told - and they should ask the smoker to only smoke in smoking area - if they still try it.

the front desk should have security removed these people to a smoking room.

lots of time smokers don't realize how bad even a little cigarettee
can be to others.

Also sometimes these people have children. They don't want their children in the smokers units.

then they have to pick between either smoking in a smoking unit (which is fine) - or getting a non-smoking for the children and then smoking outside (which makes me sick) which is not an okay situation. they should be told no smoking in a non-smoking unit.

then there is the other situation - they asked for a smoking unit when they arrived - they do smoke and know it - but all MS had was non-smoking unit. In these cases MS should be trying at the other DVC resorts to find these people a room in a smoking part of the resort.

instead front desk tells them it is okay to smoke in a non-smoking unit...

Lesley
10-25-2004, 11:34 AM
If your room didn't specifically have a non-smoking sign on the door then it was a smoking optional room.

Honestly from my experiences it doesn't seem like it makes any difference what you book...they just put you where they have room. I've had smoking rooms when I requested non-smoking and was told no smoking rooms were available when I booked smoking (for my mom, who smokes)....though as it turned out our room was not labeled non-smoking.

Knowing that people have such strong feelings both ways, they probably should book this as a room type and not a request. It would be much better for someone who needs either type of room to know in advance whether or not it was available so they can choose to either adapt or pick other dates.

Ellyn, I agree about the smell of smoke. I've never really been a smoker but grew up in a smoking household. I never realized how much it stinks until I lived away from home for a while and I started actually smelling it.

Dean
10-25-2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Lori2816
I guess we'll have to have meetings to agree on those $ amounts. Just out of curiosity, how much will the fines be for those that cause damage to the rooms or steal supplies from the rooms? Will these people be "evicted" from DVC also? Suits me, we can raise the fines if you want. The fines I quoted are consistent with timeshares in general that police it from what I'm told. All of the Worldmark timeshares, some 40 or more, are all totally non smoking.
I don't think trying to get rid of smokers is the answer here.
Is that from the resorts or otherwise?

mndisfam
10-28-2004, 04:52 PM
Not trying to start a war here. We don't smoke, and bcs son has asthma, we always get a non-smoking unit.

On our trip to SSR, the balcony next to us had smokers a lot. The smell was really offensive to us, and we had to go inside and miss out on the gorgeous view of downtown disney.

Do they normally put non-smoking and smoking units that close to each other? Has anyone else had a problem like this - can't go out on the balcony bcs people next store are smoking.

Go ahead - flame away. But we are curious.

floridafam
10-28-2004, 05:03 PM
We had the same problem at VB last year.

We volunteered to move. Should we have to move? No, I don't think so.

They should group smoking and non-smoking rooms together.

The room designation (S or NS) should extend to the balcony.

You have every right to sit out on your balcony and not have to experience the smell of smoke.

I encourage you to write a letter to DVC.

Our son also has asthma and we are looking forward to our first stay at a completely non-smoking hotel (rooms, restaurant, everything!) in Florida. www.watercolorinn.com

Sorry you had to experience this.

Happy Birthday Cat
10-28-2004, 05:12 PM
It wouldn't bother me if they banned smking from all WDW hotels completely. No flames here. I'm sorry you had to deal with it. Make sure you let DVC know how you feel.

HBC

kweaver
10-28-2004, 05:19 PM
It may not have necessarily been a smoking room next to you. It could have easily been a non-smoking room...and the visitors were just smoking on the balcony rather than inside the unit. Many smokers have indicated that CMs have informed them that it's acceptable to smoke on the balcony.

I appreciate that a smoker would make the effort to go outside...keeping the smell out of the villa. However, I understand your feelings about having to breathe it outside and not being able to enjoy your view.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is a problem that is going away very soon.

ReneeQ
10-28-2004, 09:09 PM
Is there an OFFICIAL answer on this? Is smoking allowed on the balcony of a non-smoking villa? We are going back in January, our first stay at VWL. There will be six of us in a non-smoking (hopefully!) 2 Bedroom. My mother and brother smoke. I am TOTALLY prepared to tell them NO smoking allowed, including the balcony, if that is the rule. I would LIKE that to be the rule.

Also, is there a smoking "area" anywhere at VWL? If I tell them no smoking on the balcony, is there anywhere else for them to go that is out of the way?

Thanks!

RoutemanDan
10-28-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by ReneeQ
.

Also, is there a smoking "area" anywhere at VWL? If I tell them no smoking on the balcony, is there anywhere else for them to go that is out of the way?

Thanks!

There is an ash tray located in front of the main entrance to the Villas with 4 chairs. I'm at the VWL right now,just got back from Illuminations. :)

M & M
10-28-2004, 10:24 PM
We also had someone smoking on a balcony close to us and the smoke was upsetting, they where in a non smoking room. Since the balconies can be pretty close I feel a non smoking room should be a non smoking balcony. We told DS not to smoke on the balcony to go out front, then we have someone next to us doing it.

::MickeyMo ::MinnieMo ::MickeyMo ::MickeyMo

SueM in MN
10-28-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by ReneeQ
Is there an OFFICIAL answer on this? Is smoking allowed on the balcony of a non-smoking villa? We are going back in January, our first stay at VWL. There will be six of us in a non-smoking (hopefully!) 2 Bedroom. My mother and brother smoke. I am TOTALLY prepared to tell them NO smoking allowed, including the balcony, if that is the rule. I would LIKE that to be the rule.

Also, is there a smoking "area" anywhere at VWL? If I tell them no smoking on the balcony, is there anywhere else for them to go that is out of the way?

Thanks!
I think one of the problems is that some CMs tell people what they want to hear. If a smoker asks, "can I smoke on the balcony" they might be told "yeah, go ahead, just don't smoke in the room." If I say I am sensitive to smoke and ask if smoking on the baclonies is allowed, I'v been told that the designation of smoking/non-smoking is for the whole unit, including the balcony.

Sammie
10-29-2004, 12:40 AM
I know front desk personnel tells smokers that get a NS room they can smoke on the balcony as I have witnessed it personally at check in.

I don't like it, but I prefer it to smokers using a NS room to smoke in and we have gotten a few of those. Then you have no way to escape it.

At least on the balcony you can go back in. Not the best choice but better than the room being smokey.

And Sue is very correct, they will tell you what they think you want to hear.

Beca
10-29-2004, 01:18 AM
I would love to know the "official" policy as well. I certainly think smokers should have the right to smoke if they wish...but, only if it can be assured that no one will have to smell their smoke. It's just courtesy!!!

:wave:

Beca

MDonley
10-29-2004, 01:22 AM
I'd like to see a NS room mean non-smoking inclucing the balcony. I have a sister that doesn't smoke in her house (goes outside) and her house still smells like smoke from her clothing. I, too, have asthma and use a CPAP to sleep. She's found the perfect way to keep family away. Maybe DVC can take the hint.

SnowWitch
10-29-2004, 05:03 AM
As far as are smoking and non-smoking rooms together. As the BWV's all smoking roomsare are on the second floor so anyone above them gets to smell it because smoke rises.

Last year friends joined us on a Dec trip, I booked a smoking room and asked that they smoke on the balcony not in the unit. I'm a former smoker and I have been told we are the worst non-smokers. Anyway, my friends were out smoking on the balcony of a smoking unit when guests from a balcony above ours started verbally assaulting them about the smoke. To make a long story short I called the front desk and they were never heard from again.

Yes smoke is irritating but putting smoking units on the second floor is just plain stupid!!!!!!!

eva
10-29-2004, 05:32 AM
SnowWitch, I kind of thought the same thing. If the smoking rooms are all on lower floors then the smoke would rise up to non-smoking rooms. I don't think there is a good answer for that. A lot of people like top floor rooms for the view. If they made the top floor all smoking units people would probably complain about that too.

shelbyjosh
10-29-2004, 06:55 AM
That is awful! How unfortunate that you had to get a whiff of that nasty stench. My DD has asthma and if we were in the area of n/s rooms and somebody was smoking on the balcony I would make sure to call the front desk. Might as well stay in a smoking unit if you have to smell that crap. I would be putting up my own STINK!

goofy4tink
10-29-2004, 07:45 AM
At BWV last August we had smokers on the balconies beside us and below us to the left. We don't smoke and I get all stuffed up with smokers around. So, even tho we had a non-smoking room, there were a lot of times we couldn't use the balcony because someone was smoking in the area.

OneMoreTry
10-29-2004, 07:52 AM
There aren't enough CMs to keep smokers from smoking on balconies and flicking cigarettes out car windows and emptying ashtrays into parking lots.

A lovely lot they can be sometimes. ("Some of my best friends are smokers" though.)

But then many non-smokers find ways to be rude, too. I think Disney does a pretty good job dealing with rude human behavior. They just can't stop it.

d-r
10-29-2004, 08:08 AM
I'm never really clear about how smoking on the balcony is that much different from somebody smoking outside. At okw, somebody could be smoking a cigar on the golf course right outside a unit, or somebody could be smoking on the boardwalk right outside a unit, or smoking on the sidewalks that go around beach club villas. At wlv, it is a little more remote, the only place somebody could do that is at the pool area for the most part. But mostly, outside is outside it seems to me.

Scoootch
10-29-2004, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Eva -- SnowWitch, I kind of thought the same thing. If the smoking rooms are all on lower floors then the smoke would rise up to non-smoking rooms. I don't think there is a good answer for that. A lot of people like top floor rooms for the view. If they made the top floor all smoking units people would probably complain about that too.


Why not group the rooms by section somehow then - maybe a block of say 12 rooms from left to right (don't quote my # of rooms just saying any # to get my idea out there) and all floors be smoking and then the next set of rooms from the next section from left to right all floors be non-smoking? KWIM?? Maybe having the middle section between them be smoking optional or something so as to keep those who have to definitly be away from the smoke far from the smokers and those who have this problem of wanting the N/S unit but have smokers with them, can have those smokers go out on the balcony's without offending anyone??

It's not perfect, but couldn't that work better than having smoke rising up to offend the non-smoking rooms from below?

Then of course they'd actually have to implement this somehow but wouldn't that make at least a little more sense? I agree that having a smoking unit right below a non-smoking unit is just plain dumb:rolleyes:

KristiKelly
10-29-2004, 08:16 AM
Not DVC but, we were @ WDW a few weeks ago staying @ the Poly. The first room we were in for 3 nights. It smelled of smoke, not bad, but still there. For the remaining 4 nights we switched (upgraded to lagoon to give DD4 the castle view) worth the extra $60 a night in every way. We were put in the Tahiti building, a little farther away from the main building but the building was a non-smoking building which I'm assuming would extend to the balcony. It always smelled very fresh & clean with no sign of smoke anywhere. In addition to that we had a great view of the castle, space mountain, Grd. Floridian, monorail, ferries going to & from Trans. center. Sorry, I know I've drifted a little off topic but I would like to see them offer non-smoking buildings.

floridafam
10-29-2004, 08:23 AM
DVC needs to have one clear policy on this issue and stick to it.

Will it ever be all NS? I doubt it but they could at least group the rooms together.

I would also like to see no smoking at the pool. I hate sittting around the pool at Vero, have kids playing everywhere and then someone lights up a sticky cigarette or cigar. YUCK!

Scoootch
10-29-2004, 08:32 AM
Well, they do already do that in the resorts such as the Poly like you mentioned and the GF,OKW basically the resorts that have separte guest buildings. Problem is the other resorts such as VWL,BCV's and BWV's they're already built and they really need a better solution than what they've got now:(

originally posted by d-r --- I'm never really clear about how smoking on the balcony is that much different from somebody smoking outside. At okw, somebody could be smoking a cigar on the golf course right outside a unit, or somebody could be smoking on the boardwalk right outside a unit, or smoking on the sidewalks that go around beach club villas. At wlv, it is a little more remote, the only place somebody could do that is at the pool area for the most part. But mostly, outside is outside it seems to me.

Personnally, I don't feel smokers are very considerate alot of times outside either:rolleyes: Just because a smoker is outside doesn't mean the smoke just hovers right in front of their own personal space. Like it or not, it floats away from them and in a crowd or even not it's most likely into someone else's face. Many a time I've been either sitting on a bench in the parks or once or twice I've been on line for rides like Peter Pan at MK and someone lights up just the other side of the chains. If I'm on a bench I can get up and move but on line for a ride like that I'm pretty much stuck breathing that awful stench. There are suppossed to be designated areas for smoking but people either are ignorant of this or don't care..I'd like to think they're just not aware, but it doesn't make it any less awful. I'm not attacking a smokers right to smoke, but they could at least be considerate enough in public places to find remote areas where not subject everyone else to their habit. Outside may be outside but outside and by yourself or other smokers is not the same as outside in a crowd where everyone has no choice but to have to breathe in your smoke.

JMO:(

LisaR
10-29-2004, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by floridafam

I would also like to see no smoking at the pool. I hate sittting around the pool at Vero, have kids playing everywhere and then someone lights up a sticky cigarette or cigar. YUCK!

We just spent a day at SSR pool hopping (stayed at OKW). We had this family sitting in front of us that were never without a cigarette in their hand. It was so gross and overpowering. I have never noticed anyone smoking at any of the pools until this trip. Yet, I saw quite a few smoking at SSR. My husband and I were looking everywhere for no smoking signs but we never found them. It seems dangerous to have kids walking around in bare feet while people are smoking. If they step on a lit cigarette that someone drops, it won't be pretty. Until last week, I never knew smoking was allowed at the pool.

Lisa

smjj
10-29-2004, 09:51 AM
Has this issues ever ben brought up at any of the Members Meetings? Being new to DVC, I would like to know. If Disney is ignoring the many request at the front desk, maybe confronting them at a meeting might get better results..smjj

BAYBREEZEDISNEY
10-29-2004, 10:14 AM
Maybe it is just me, but non-smoking unit means the entire unit which includes the balcony is Non-smoking! Is there a shortage of smoking units or do smokers maybe don't like the smell of smoke inside units either. If there is no clear cut rule, I would hope that consideration of other folks should be the deciding factor.

We are non-smokers but during our upcoming vacation at BCV, my niece who is a smoker will be joining us. We have made it clear to her, should she want to smoke, we will locate the designated smoking areas for her. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

I do not feel it is a CMs place to advise people to smoke on their balconies. There are many smokers in my family and the #1 rule is consideration for those who don't smoke;in turn no one gets on the case of the smoker for their habit.

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 11:20 AM
I do not smoke cigarettes, never have. I do, however, enjoy the ocassional good cigar and cocktail. I have been known to do this on a balcony. I do this because it is outside. If you read some of these posts closely then many would suggest there is no place, either inside or out, where this is acceptable. I disagree. There are many behaviours of others that I find extremely annoying, but I try not to place my opinions over theirs.

floridafam
10-29-2004, 11:30 AM
I think smokers should be able to smoke on their balconies.

I also don't think I'm being extreme when I say I don't want to sit outside on my balcony and have someone smoke (a cigar or cigarette) next to me.

Smoking and non-smoking rooms should be kept apart.

If you normally don't smoke but smoke cigars every so often then, technically, you should ask for a smoking room. Do you?

I think everyone could be happy if the rooms were apart and the balcony was considered part of the room.

The way I see it, I have a right to sit out on my balcony with fresh air and you have a right to smoke on your smoking room balcony. It's really very simple. I wish DVC would realize this.

MisterDisney
10-29-2004, 11:52 AM
I must admit that I am one of "those" .. I always get nonsmoking rooms and proceed to smoke on the balcony. This mirrors what I do at home as well ... as I dont want to the smokey smell stuck in my living space ...

Unless someone is chain smoking though, how much of your balcony time could possibly be interupted by the "smoker next door", even @ 1 per hour what are we talking about here 5 minutes? <go find something to do>. I personally cant see a CM coming and busting a smoker for smoking on the balcony, but maybe as more of the world become non-smoking this will change.

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 11:54 AM
Nope have never asked for a smoking room as i don't smoke in the room. Never have, never will. I smoke on the balcony, it's not the room. I don't think anyone is being extreme when they say they don't want to sit on their balcony and smell smoke. At times I don't either, then I go inside.

I don't think it is as simple as you would portray it. If I am on the ground floor standing on the grass just off the patio and the smoke drifts upward, should I have to move?

MisterDisney
10-29-2004, 12:33 PM
Also, if I were to "pass gas" for a while on the balcony after a big meal at the Mexico pavillion at Epcot .. call the CM? Lets not forget about those screaming kids next door that I dont want to hear first thing in the morning (dont I have a right to a quiet room as well as smoke-free balcony)?

Its Disney, lets have fun, and stop griping about the little stuff.

floridafam
10-29-2004, 12:35 PM
It's not "little stuff" to me.

I'm not griping. I can talk about whatever I choose.

We can agree to disagree.

kweaver
10-29-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by MisterDisney
Also, if I were to "pass gas" for a while on the balcony after a big meal at the Mexico pavillion at Epcot .. call the CM? Lets not forget about those screaming kids next door that I dont want to hear first thing in the morning (dont I have a right to a quiet room as well as smoke-free balcony)?

Its Disney, lets have fun, and stop griping about the little stuff.

These examples, while I admit could be quite irritating, do not cause physical health problems to others. That's the difference.

LisaR
10-29-2004, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by MisterDisney
(dont I have a right to a quiet room as well as smoke-free balcony)?


No, I don't believe you have the *right* to a quiet room since you didn't reserve a quiet room (and you can't because that isn't an option). You reserved a room that is non-smoking though. The balcony IS part of the room. What if you entered your DVC unit and there wasn't a balcony? You would be ticked because the balcony is part of the room. I am betting you would go to the front desk and argue that you want another room.

As a parent, it is my responsibility to keep my kids quiet in the morning and at night. It is also my responsibility to remind them that there are people staying below and next to us and they need to use quiet voices and quiet feet. I do that regularly. It is just good manners.

However, if I reserve a non-smoking room, it is more then just good manners to not smoke IN it (and yes, the balcony is part of the room you reserved).

Lisa

MisterDisney
10-29-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by kweaver
These examples, while I admit could be quite irritating, do not cause physical health problems to others. That's the difference.

We could debate this until the cows come home ... I really think you are overstating this health hazard .. a few seconds of smoke on the balcony is going to endanger your life? Do you keep in your kids in a plastic bubble when you get home?

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 01:29 PM
I am certainly glad that I am receiving clarification on whether or not the blacony is considered part of the room. It heartens me to know that the experts are on top of the situation because when I asked the CM at the front desk if I could have a cigar on my balcony I was told it was fine, and in fact I was engaged in a lengthy discussion on what my favorite cigar was.

Scoootch
10-29-2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by floridafam
I think smokers should be able to smoke on their balconies.

I also don't think I'm being extreme when I say I don't want to sit outside on my balcony and have someone smoke (a cigar or cigarette) next to me.

Smoking and non-smoking rooms should be kept apart.

If you normally don't smoke but smoke cigars every so often then, technically, you should ask for a smoking room. Do you?

I think everyone could be happy if the rooms were apart and the balcony was considered part of the room.

The way I see it, I have a right to sit out on my balcony with fresh air and you have a right to smoke on your smoking room balcony. It's really very simple. I wish DVC would realize this.

floridafam I could not have said it better myself ::yes::

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by floridafam
I think smokers should be able to smoke on their balconies.

I agree, and I do smoke on my balcony.

VAN
10-29-2004, 01:55 PM
I didn't read through the responses ... but everytime I see this subject I wish we had videotaped my MIL before she died. She was a long-time smoker and died from it. At the end, it was like she was drowning ... she just couldn't get her breath. She kept hollering out "Help Me" "Help Me".

All smokers should visit their local nursing homes, because this is a very common way for smokers to die. Not pretty.

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by VAN
I didn't read through the responses ... but everytime I see this subject I wish we had videotaped my MIL before she died. She was a long-time smoker and died from it. At the end, it was like she was drowning ... she just couldn't get her breath. She kept hollering out "Help Me" "Help Me".

All smokers should visit their local nursing homes, because this is a very common way for smokers to die. Not pretty.

You are exactly right, it is a horrible death and I am sorry about your MIL. I wasn't advocating smoking, in fact if you read the posts you'll see that I am not a "regular" smoker, I have the occasional cigar. What this issue is centering on is whether it is allowable, per DVC, to smoke on one's balcony.

floridafam
10-29-2004, 02:02 PM
I agree and I do smoke on my balcony

Correction. You smoke on the balcony of your non-smoking room.

I think smokers should be able to smoke on the balconies of non smoking rooms if DVC could keep the two categoriies apart.

Sure, I hate smoking BUT I think we could all find a solution to this problem if DVC would set one policy and tell their CM's to stick to it.

Mickmse2002
10-29-2004, 02:06 PM
I'm really not trying to be difficult but why the assumption that DVC hasn't set one policy? Every indication I have seen is that DVC allows, and CM's confirm, smoking on a balcony and not in NS rooms. This appears to be one policy to me?

kweaver
10-29-2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by MisterDisney
We could debate this until the cows come home ... I really think you are overstating this health hazard .. a few seconds of smoke on the balcony is going to endanger your life? Do you keep in your kids in a plastic bubble when you get home?

No plastic bubbles here. However, I do tend to avoid cancer causing substances whenever possible...and do the same for my children. Any responsible parent does the same. I don't let them play with household chemicals... or chase a ball into the middle of a busy street either (Not even for a few seconds...Not even if it might not endanger their life!).

You are entitled to think whatever you wish. A few seconds of smoke obviously isn't going to cause anyone to die. However, for people who are susceptible to breathing problems, it can cause serious complications. Screaming kids or passing of gas does not.

Bottom line...Second hand smoke does cause harm to our bodies. The examples you site do not cause harm to our bodies.

I do think Disney needs a clear policy on this. Maybe they do...but I've never seen one in writing. I also know that CMs have told guests that they can smoke on their non-smoking balconies. If this is their policy...then so be it. I will add non-smoking for medical reasons to all of my reservations and I guess I will have to change rooms if it becomes necessary.

Maybe I'll just send my screaming kids out to the balcony to bother the smoker on the balcony next to me! :eek: :p

smjj
10-29-2004, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by MisterDisney
We could debate this until the cows come home ... I really think you are overstating this health hazard .. a few seconds of smoke on the balcony is going to endanger your life? Do you keep in your kids in a plastic bubble when you get home?

Thats not what bothers me. As a non-smoker, I hate the smell of smoke period. If I am on my balcony, what should I be subjected to this foul discusting order for just one second??...smjj

DrTomorrow
10-29-2004, 03:36 PM
Well, it's nice to see another topic giving the dear departed Occupancy Thread a run for its money....

kweaver
10-29-2004, 05:00 PM
Before you know it...this one will be gone forever too. :rolleyes:

SueM in MN
10-29-2004, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Mickmse2002
I'm really not trying to be difficult but why the assumption that DVC hasn't set one policy? Every indication I have seen is that DVC allows, and CM's confirm, smoking on a balcony and not in NS rooms. This appears to be one policy to me?
That's the problem though.
Smokers have been told by CMs that it's OK to smoke on the balcony of non-smoking rooms (just not in the rooms).
But, people who have problems with smoke have been told that the whole room, including the balcony of a non-smoking room is non-smoking. I have personally been told that by CMs on several occasions. A smoker who is smoking on the balcony does prevent me from using my balcony, so I am not getting full use of my room.

It can't be both ways and it's not fair for smokers or non-smokers to be put in the middle by CMs who don't know or don't want to follow whatever the policy is.

Par8hed
10-29-2004, 05:58 PM
Please! I beg you all! Calm down! OK I'm a non-smoker and I must say that unless someone spews it DIRECTLY in my face I'm not fazed. Do I ever detect the odor? Sure. Is it really THAT offensive? Again I don't love it but I've been next to ripe diapers that would make one want to intimately kiss a random stranger just to plug their nostrils. I mean.....we're talking about people smoking outdoors here. I'd like to see the study where exposure to someone smoking on a nearby outdoor balcony poses much of a health risk. If that study exists and it it scares you I suggest you stay in your hermetically sealed house forever. Certainly never venture onto a street with a stop sign or red light. After all brake pads contain ASBESTOS. Don't ever BBQ- more carcinogens there. Cancel your electric service. yup- the EMF will cause cancer too. Basically if you're not Amish you're dead. Then again I took my young son to the pumpkin farm this past weekend and you know what..... they had pigs,goats,cows, etc. A nice natural experience and it SMELT REALLY OFFENSIVE! But we were happy to be there and enjoyed ourselves anyway. My point if there is one.... there's a @#$% of a lot of scary stuff going on in the world right now. Count your blessings that your at WDW, smell that whiff of smoke, and put things in perspective.

Par8hed
10-29-2004, 06:01 PM
OOPS- and as my wife just instructed me--- AND PIXIE DUST TO ALL!!

Happy Birthday Cat
10-29-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by kweaver
Maybe I'll just send my screaming kids out to the balcony to bother the smoker on the balcony next to me!

The best idea I've heard in a long time. (except for Dr.T's idea for putting the sorority into his studio).

HBC

klharty
11-05-2004, 01:07 PM
Just spent two almost perfect weeks at Disney - a week at the Boardwalk and a week at the Villas at the Wilderness Lodge. The only less than stellar moments of the whole vacation were relative to smokers that were disrespectful of others.

In particular, the non-smoking room I'd reserved at Boardwalk reeked of smoke. After the front desk assured me that it was a non-smoking room, they admitted that it was possible that someone may have smoked in it. Housekeeping brought an air deoderizer for us, but this only masked the smell for a short time. The smell accosted us every time we entered the room and I just couldn't help feeling the room wasn't as clean as it might have been.

The next week, at the Wilderness Lodge, we were greeted in the morning (7ish) by smoke wafting in the balcony door from our neighbor. I appreciate that smokers might believe escaping to the balcony solves the 'problem' of having to stay in a non-smoking room, but it doesn't when other guests are only feet away. It stank. Sorry, but I'd like to be able to leave the doors open and enjoy the warm weather, too.

Most disappointing to me was the fact that it was probably other members who were of the opinion that the rules don't apply to them. If you reserve a non-smoking room, then please don't smoke in it. That is what the designated smoking rooms and smoking areas are for.

Horace Horsecollar
11-05-2004, 01:43 PM
I agree that it's rude and disrespectful for anyone to smoke in a non-smoking room. They should be charged a significant cleaning fee.

However, it's perfectly within the rules to smoke on any balcony or patio. In fact, that's the right thing for a smoker to do, if a smoker is assigned to a nonsmoking room. Also, a smoker could be smoking on a balcony or patio of a smoking room, and some smoke could drift to the balcony or patio of a nonsmoking room; it's unavoidable.

I suppose one possibility would be to designate all balconies or patios as nonsmoking, and to have a designated outdoor smoking area far from any balconies or patios -- but I really don't see that happening.

cdy16zz
01-17-2005, 01:57 PM
Every time there is a smoker that says they couldn't get a smoking room, we hear from Non-Smokers! The Non-Smokers have Most of the rooms now.
Yet they are Very Vocal and Disney listens to them. Making les and less rooms available for Smokers.

There has to be a way to accommodate both sides. We have made ressies at the 11 month mark with only ONE request. A Smoking room. We too have been made to take a Non-Smoking room. Telling a smoker to Not smoke for a week is akin to telling an overweight person not to eat in their room, and only to eat in designated areas!

And well, if that statement angers some so be it! That's how smokers are made to feel.

The fact that Disney gives all the Non-Smokers the freshly refurbished room is annoying to us as well.
It is insulting to say the least.

Maybe Disney should keep a list of people who have left their room a total mess or have done damage in the past and give them the rooms that are due to be refubished. I have seen where peple are so careless that hey cut with knives on the counters, or put a very hot pot on the counter top that left a permanent ring. Or the time we went to the BCV and a person (child?) left a bugger on ever light switch. Not a lasting problem but none the less disgusting. No we didn't complain to housekeeping. We cleaned up ourselves.
Some people go complaining to housekeeping about every tiny thing they see. Makes me wonder how clean they are at home!

Anyway, I feel Smokers need to voice how they feel too. We own points at three of the DVC Resorts, we pay our dues, and when we bought in... Smoking was NOT an issue.

To be given a non-smoking room and to be told Not to smoke on the balcony is just unreasonable.
SMOKERS Please Speak Up!!

LoveToDisney
01-17-2005, 02:15 PM
I feel as sorry for you, a smoker in a non-smoking room as I feel for ourselves, non smokers due to medical reasons in a smoking room or getting a non-smoking room that has been smoked in. I agree at 11 mos at our home resort we SHOULD BE ABLE TO RESERVE either smoking or non-smoking (if the room is available) and get what we reserved. Once all the smoking and non-smoking rooms are gone, then it's smoking-optional. I hate that a late check-in means that you can't get what you reserved at 11 months!

bonzarella
01-17-2005, 02:34 PM
taking first trip home this summer. We don't smoke in our home or in anyones home. I was told while we could not smoke in the room the balcony is acceptable. Please advise if this is not the case. Thanks!

Beca
01-17-2005, 02:42 PM
There has to be a way to accommodate both sides. We have made ressies at the 11 month mark with only ONE request. A Smoking room. We too have been made to take a Non-Smoking room. Telling a smoker to Not smoke for a week is akin to telling an overweight person not to eat in their room, and only to eat in designated areas!



Hmmm...I think you raise some valid points (non-smoking and smoking rooms SHOULD be a guarantee, not a request), but your analogy here does not hold well with me.

There simply is no way of getting around the bottom-line truth that second-hand smoke is dangerous to people who might be following you in that room. More and more studies support the theory that second-hand smoke causes cancer, but even that issue aside...my mom's throat closes up when she is in an enclosed space with smoke (stale or otherwise). She is EXTREMELY allergic.

I don't think I have ever heard of anyone having allergy or asthma issues (or, for that matter ANY kind of issues) because someone ate in their room...and, this includes shellfish and peanuts...two of the worst allergies ever!!

Smokers just need to accept that the choice of what they do with their bodies ceases to be only their concern every time they exhale, or even allow a cigarette to burn. Dangerous toxins are released into the air and can do damage to others. Non-smokers are not trying to limit your personal freedoms, we are just trying to keep as many dangers away from ourselves and our children as possible. If you could assure me that your smoking in a room could all be "cleaned up" by housekeeping (much the way a messy room can be cleaned), I would say "smoke away". But, sleeping in a room that you have smoked in would send my mom to the hospital and ruin all of our vacations. How fair is that?

:wave:

Beca

DisneySpence
01-17-2005, 02:56 PM
Our family would applaud a move to all non smoking rooms on Disney property not just DVC and we have smokers in our family that regularly vacation with us at WDW. We think that a non smoking policy is a good decision for all parties members guests and CM's.

dianeschlicht
01-17-2005, 03:10 PM
Hmmm...I think you raise some valid points (non-smoking and smoking rooms SHOULD be a guarantee, not a request), but your analogy here does not hold well with me.

There simply is no way of getting around the bottom-line truth that second-hand smoke is dangerous to people who might be following you in that room. More and more studies support the theory that second-hand smoke causes cancer, but even that issue aside...my mom's throat closes up when she is in an enclosed space with smoke (stale or otherwise). She is EXTREMELY allergic.

I don't think I have ever heard of anyone having allergy or asthma issues (or, for that matter ANY kind of issues) because someone ate in their room...and, this includes shellfish and peanuts...two of the worst allergies ever!!

Smokers just need to accept that the choice of what they do with their bodies ceases to be only their concern every time they exhale, or even allow a cigarette to burn. Dangerous toxins are released into the air and can do damage to others. Non-smokers are not trying to limit your personal freedoms, we are just trying to keep as many dangers away from ourselves and our children as possible. If you could assure me that your smoking in a room could all be "cleaned up" by housekeeping (much the way a messy room can be cleaned), I would say "smoke away". But, sleeping in a room that you have smoked in would send my mom to the hospital and ruin all of our vacations. How fair is that?

:wave:

Beca
EXATLY! I had some of the same issues in December when folks were smoking inside a non-smoking building and it was coming into our bathroom through the vents. I do agree that in an ownership property like a TS, there porbably needs to be smoking allowed buildings, but I think we need some guarantee that the non-smoking buildings will NOT have folks smoking in them too. The problem with smoke allergy, is that the smoke permeates EVERYTHING like the woodwork, furniture and carpet, and no amount of cleaning between guests can possibly get that residue out.

Deemarch
01-17-2005, 04:13 PM
Maybe Disney should keep a list of people who have left their room a total mess or have done damage in the past and give them the rooms that are due to be refubished. I have seen where peple are so careless that hey cut with knives on the counters, or put a very hot pot on the counter top that left a permanent ring. Or the time we went to the BCV and a person (child?) left a bugger on ever light switch. Not a lasting problem but none the less disgusting.

NONE OF THESE THINGS CAN KILL PEOPLE!

I am so tired of listening to smokers "rights".