Why did PO & DL merge?

[lenshanem]

I stayed at both Port Orleans and Dixie Landings years ago before they merged. I'm just curious as to why they did this? Did it make any difference? I haven't stayed at either since, but hope to try POFQ next February before we check into VWL.

Thanks for any info. I've just always wondered why.

[manning]

One rumor is it was for political correctness.

[umbluegray]

Originally posted by manning
One rumor is it was for political correctness.

By political correctness do you mean the "dixie" part?

[Chuck S]

They may also have been able to save a good chunk of change by combining the staffs.

[lenshanem]

But, isn't there still two separate check-ins? Two food courts? (I think one of the restaurants was closed? Was it at the Dixie Landings side?) They still have to have enough mousekeeping, grounds, etc. As far as less staff that is across the board anyway all over WDW... ;)
Seems to me it would have cost money to change all the signs, etc.
I just don't get it. I don't think Dixie is offensive, does anyone here?

[WDSearcher]

The term "Dixie" is often associated with the Old South, and therefore with slavery and plantations and the Confederate flag and other things that, to some people, are offensive. The song "Dixie" is also the 'battle cry' of many white supremacy groups.

I don't find it offensive either, but this is one line of reasoning as to why it might be.

:confused: :earsboy:

[DancingBear]

I believe it was mostly to save the cost of operating the separate check-in at the original Port Orleans, which I believe was the smallest resort. At the same time that they consolidated this function, they closed the table service restaurant at Port Orleans.

[caseymaureen]

They both still have their own seperate check-ins, pools, and foodcourts, but the sit down restaurant at Port Orleans French Quarter was closed. The cast still have different costumes and schedules for the 2 sections of the resort, so not too much has changed.

[Kaitysmom]

The merchandising is all the same at both resorts now. I guess this saves them in that regard. It might have been to allow more guests to use the facilities at both resorts, pool hopping, larger range of choices at DL. I was also told that resort name was not PC, so combining them got rid of that "problem" too. I wish they had left it alone... :(

[sanapunk]

Heck, I'll still call it dixie landings. Now it seems more confusing, especially for first time guests. You never know, they might try to check in at the wrong place!

[Chuck S]

While I'm certain PCness played a part in merging the two resorts, there must have been some financial savings as well, or else the resort would still be operating completely separately but have only been re-named something like "Riverside Landings Resort" or something. Disney has re-named resorts before, though not for PC reasons.

[Dznefreek]

They may also have been able to save a good chunk of change by combining the staffs. Only 11 people were reassigned when the resorts merged.

[Chuck S]

Not knowing what CMs actually make, I'll use the minimums and assume that they were full time.

At $5.50 per hour for 40 hours per week, those 11 re-assignments would be a savings of $125,840. Add to that employment taxes, medical benefits etc, and it could easily be in the neighborhood of $175K per year. While not very significant in the overall scheme of Disney, a savings none the less, especially when tourism was low after 9-11. Again, Disney has simply renamed resorts before (Golf Resort was Re-named Disney Inn, Village Resort renamed and Expanded to Disney Institute, Disney Vacation Club resort renamed Old Key West) So something other than a simple PC name change led to the actual "merger".

[All Aboard]

The savings came from the elimination of one full service restaurant (Bonfamille's on the French Quarter side) and the elimination of the marina (also on the French Quarter side.) Theory being, call it all by a single name and you don't have to have as many redundant services. If I remember correctly, there were rumors flying around about more consolidation (check-in being one of them) but in the end only Bonfamille's and FQ's boat rentals perished.

Since so much was made of the PC-driven motivation, I tend to believe that, as well. Sort of a "two birds with one stone" outcome.

Pool hopping has been permitted between the two resorts for as long as I remember - well before the consolidation.

[OnWithTheShow]

The number of people being reassigned does not include senior management, and finance personel who were also moved when the resorts merged. The cost savings comes mostly from the combined management, planning, and finance ares, not from operations. That has been the big occurance around WDW for the last 4 years. As senior managers leave they are leaving their positions open (or eliminating them) and extending the responsibility of other managers.

[Amphigorey]

The two resorts were originally planned to be operated as one resort with two different sides. When it opened, they decided that it was too big to be one resort, and it was split in two. I guess they decided that it wasn't too big to operate as one after all.

[bigdisneydaddy]

I think most of the original theories have been covered. Unfortunately the real reasoning for the change will never be known to any of us.
Dixie landings was the first resort we stayed at while visiting WDW in 1993. We were immediately hooked on the theming and the quality of the resort, even though we dont stay there much any more (DVC owners) we always spend time there during our visits to WDW. The place is forever in our hearts because it was the start of our Disney obsession.
I personally was disappointed when the name was changed, I thought the original Dixie Landings name fit the resort perfectly.
The sad part is that it proves just how succesful society has been at demonizing the deep south and the confederacy. This started in 1865 and continues today in the factually challenged trash taught in most public schools.
Somewhere, somehow, good people have to stand up and say enough of the PC trash, a relatively minute percentage of people are wielding far too much influence.

I yield the soap box

;)

[DukeStreetKing]

Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
The number of people being reassigned does not include senior management, and finance personel who were also moved when the resorts merged. The cost savings comes mostly from the combined management, planning, and finance ares, not from operations. That has been the big occurance around WDW for the last 4 years. As senior managers leave they are leaving their positions open (or eliminating them) and extending the responsibility of other managers.

That's just the way large corporations have been going for quite some time. Same thing has been happening at my firm for the past 3+ years.

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by bigdisneydaddy

The sad part is that it proves just how succesful society has been at demonizing the deep south and the confederacy.

While the South overall has certainly made tremendous strides in the area of human rights in recent years...there are still pockets that need no help being "demonized". I reside in a former Confederate state. Prejudice still clings heavy in the air in some regions. We still see "The South Shall Rise Again" bumper stickers, Confederate Battle flags, and active "chapters" of the KKK.

George Wallace on the steps of the University of Alabama was in the 20th century. James Byrd was dragged to death behind a truck simply because two white kids were looking for some fun in the 1990s. No, all is not honeysuckle and mint juleps, but it is improving. And I can fully inderstand how some people may have found Dixie Landings somewhat uncomfortable, not necessarily offensive. I think Disney was certainly correct to address that concern by changing the name of the resort. Like I said, they have changed resort names before.

[DisneyDude10171]

I believe that 99% of the cause for Dixie Landings becaming Port Orleans French Quarter has to do with PCness. This evidenced by other things previously mentioned and the fact that select additional components of DL were renamed:

*Colonel's Cotton Mill -> The Riverside Mill
*Cotton Co-op Lounge -> River Roost Lounge
*Dixie Drive -> Riverside Drive
*Dixie Landings -> PORS
*Dixie Levee -> (new name which I am unsure of)

Additionally, a painting of a cotton blossom on "The Riverside Mill" sign inside has been replaced with a less-recognizable flower.

Pretty much all references to Dixie or cotton has been removed, and with good intents. If it were for any other reason, why would only these names have changed, and not more in order to more seemlessly connect the two resorts?

Of course, the word "Dixie" has its origins in the French. "Dix" or "ten" appears in large type on 19th Century notes issued in Louisiana. Recall that French was the prominent language in some states prior to The Louisiana Purchase. The South later adapted "Dixie" as a nickname for the Confederacy.

The other 1% of the cause could have to do with Dixie Landings having been a more popular resort, the more popular Doubloon Lagoon pool at PO(FQ), or simply to combine two resorts which were already sisters :chat:.

Sources:
Walt Dated World. 05.21.2004 http://www.waltdatedworld.bravepages.com/id147.htm
http://www.syngraphics.net/pmdictionary/DICT-D.html

[lenshanem]

Prejudice can run just as strong in the north as it does in the south. I think southerns even today still get an unfair image put upon them. People like to point out the few bad apples here, but don't mention them elsewhere.
History is history, it is like people want to erase it from our books. I think that is dangerous.
I personally liked the Dixie Landings theming. Was there reference to war? Was there reference to slavery? No....
I think this type of PCness will ruin our future. Alot can be learned from our history.
I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised. Guess we'll never see Song of the South released, either. :rolleyes:

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by lenshanem

I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised.

Why would you be surprised? People complain if they don't get towel animals, "supposed" lack of themeing at OKW, pool slides (or lack there of), and not getting every single one of their 25 room requests met. Why would you find it suprising that someone may have found the overall "Dixie Landings" themeing personally "offensive" enough to complain about?

[lenshanem]

Wow, Chuck. You're really trying to debate with me today! ;)
First on the DVC board regarding Epcot, now here. Geez, you're going to give me a complex! :crazy:

Course, my six year old's school got out for summer today and she has been home less than an hour and she is already bored so the debate will have to wait! :p

[DancingBear]

Originally posted by lenshanem
I wonder if there were people that actually complained about the Dixie Landings theming. If so, I'd be very surprised. Guess we'll never see Song of the South released, either. :rolleyes: I'd be surprised if WDW would go to all of the trouble to make the change if there WEREN'T a significant number of folks who complained.

[Chuck S]

LOL Shan, not a debate, I'm just surprised you find it unusual that people would have complained about the Dixie Landings name -- seeing as they complain about anything and everything else regarding Disney. :wave:

I'm going off line in a little while anyway...some friends want to see Shrek 2, and while this movie isn't on the top of my To Do list, we always have a good time.

[PKS44]

Originally posted by bigdisneydaddy
The sad part is that it proves just how succesful society has been at demonizing the deep south and the confederacy.
;)

How long did states in the South battle to prevent any laws that would outlaw lynching? Not that long ago many Southern states and ONLY Southern states argued that this was NOT a matter for anyone but the states to decide on an individual basis--which they chose not to act on-by the way. Read Master of the Senate regarding the battle for Civil Rights Legislation in the 50's to actually learn something about how deeply racist and hateful the entire Southern blocks conducted themselves thru the years...the book is by no menas a diatribe against the South--just a carefully researched history of some of the most insidiouisly powerful bigots to ever hold office in this country.

What percentage of Mississippi voters voted against allowing different raced people to marry in an election held within the last few years? I believe it was around 40%--that is a huge minority that still thinks they have the right to impose their ignorance and stupidity on the freedom of fellow citizens based on race. This is right now--in the present time-- not some long ago myth of southern racism.... If there has been any historical baloney it is the nonsense about how the South was this genteel community that was just standing up for the principle of States' Rights in their rebellion against the Union. The States's Right that the Southern states and only the Southern states were so adamantly defending was the right to enslave a fellow human being if his skin was too dark...later the south and only the south fought fot the right for states to allow white citizens to lynch fellow human beings if their skin was too dark. The principle that the Southern states and only the Southern states have had a hard time with since 1776 is that there is a right greater than states rights--it is called human rights...and the better and sooner that Southerners own up to their long and storied history of racism and bigotry the sooner people will stop feeling the need to remind them of it.

Paul
:wave2:

[lenshanem]

Oh, great.
PKS44 has entered the discussion. :rolleyes:
Time for me to leave my own thread... :wave2:

[doubletrouble_vb]

I stayed at Dixie Landings.. I enjoyed it immensely but I also found myself observing it for historical accuracy and having constant reminders about that era in American history and how I wouldn't have been able to stay at a resort of this sort, probably wouldn't have even been able to work certain jobs, etc etc etc. I did not complain about this I thought it was a poignant reminder of history...and actually gave credit to Disney for attempting it minus 2 points for trying to Disneyify the erea. Other people would have been unlikely to take it that way.

So I'm pretty sure the name was changed for PC-ness. Frankly I think that was a mistake but it was probably cheaper than changing the overall theming which is what I thought they should have done. All they needed to do was bring the resort up to 1930's feel...you keep all the quaintness but clearly lose the issues about slavery and carpetbagging (of course Jim Crow is still there but that applies to the Grand Floridian as well). Mainly it would be a change in the way you dress the staff plus a few props.

We still call it Dixie Landings for our own amusement.

PS. The food was great...reasonably authentic...I don't know if its still that way...I went the first year it opened.

[rwodonnell]

Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.

The fact of the matter is, there are many mistakes in our past, and of course in our present and future as well. Should we remove the 50's from the Pop Century because schools (and more) were still segregated? Is the Animal Kingdom Lodge offensive because it symbolizes the imprisonment of animals? Should the underbelly of greed and corruption of the Boardwalks, where they practically steal your money, be glamorized? (Come to think of it, maybe that is appropriate - after all, Disney has perfected that!) In case it's not obvious, the increasing absurdity of those examples was an attempt at sarcasm.

Of course there were serious problems in the South, and still are, as PKS44 has pointed out. But to think there are not problems all over is naive, of course, including up here in the "bastion of enlightenment" (ha!)

I really don't see what removing the word "Dixie" and any reference to "cotton" really does anyway. The theming is basically the same otherwise, no?

[DisneyDude10171]

Originally posted by rwodonnell
Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.

Personally, I was merely stating additional things which changed along with the resort name- I am not sure whether removing the references to cotton and dixie (which can both be interpreted as symbols of slavery) aided the problem, worsened it, or just had no effect on it.

But I can stay that having staying at the resort a few times, I was well aware of historical events associated with the theming and timeframe of the resort- of course, one can still pick up on these things today, even with the "new" name and adjustments- but none-the-less, there is something there. Calling it "racist overtones" might be a bit extreme, though.

As for your points about changing theming at other resorts- I am sure there are many people who agree with your assessments. However, what Dixie Landings had that Pop, AKL, and BW do not were the other factors previously mentioned in this thread such as the proximity and resemblence to PO, which would make for a sensible combining of the two resorts.

Disney would not likely have the motivation to alter any other resort's theming in order to make it more PC, because it would not carry other benefits like DL did.

[doubletrouble_vb]

Originally posted by rwodonnell
Honestly, this is sort of ridiculous. I mean, I stayed there and it never once occurred to me that the theming had some sort of racist overtones. And to suggest that the word "Dixie" (and "cotton"!) is now tainted as well is equally ridiculous. I had no idea why they changed the name until now.



Who said anything about racist? The choice for this theme is bound to bring a certain historically aware portion of the population up short. I think if Disney had worked just a little harder at it they could have embraced the problem in an award winning manner...ala Williamsburg.

Using ANY part of American history is going to be problematic... it is just a question of how aware will your clients be about the parts you use. For example how many people bother to think about the history backing up the Wilderness Lodge? Not many.

In the case of DL/PO I think Disney was just too lily-livered to tackle the PR side of the theme robustly. Which is just plain dumb...all over the south these types of issues are successfully embraced with tact and taste.

[manning]

Maybe we ought to complain about Enland in EPCOT. After all we had to fight them for our freedom. Gee.:rolleyes:

[bigdisneydaddy]

Sad that such a wonderful innocent place like Dixie Landings had to become part of the never ending quest to find problems that dont exist.

[JudyS]

I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.

[sanapunk]

Originally posted by JudyS
I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.

The cabins could represent more than just "slave houses" though. A lot of people get the stereotypical image of either rich plantation houses or poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses, both contain white people, as a stereotype for the south. So it goes both ways.

[DisneyDude10171]

I always understood it to show a transition from the urban to the rural. Start in PO(FQ) and you are in a "dense city" move along the Sassagoula until you hit the first Magnolia Bend Mansion - notice how it is a hybrid between PORS and FQ because it utilizes the same layout as a RS mansion but uses FQ building materials such as oxidized copper and more wrought iron. The next three mansions get gradually more simple and less ornate. Finally, we reach the relaxed Alligator Bayou buildings. I have never once thought of these as "slave quarters" nor has it ever "shocked!" me. It is simply meant to resemble rural south housing while providing guests with a new atmosphere at a slightly different room rate.

Alternatively, think of it in relation to modern society: POFQ = metro city, PORS Magnolia Bend = Suburbia, PORS Alligator Bayou = country.

Could you say that Alligator Bayou represents 'poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses'? Maybe- but even that's an exageration.

[bigdisneydaddy]

Originally posted by JudyS
I just came across this thread. One things that hasn't been mentioned so far is that there are two different sections in "The Resort Fomerly Known as Dixie Landings." One of these sections is designed to look (from the exterior) like luxurious plantation mansions. The other section is designed to look like little cabins. This combination certainly triggers associations with slavery.

I stayed at Dixie Landings a few years ago, in the Alligator Bayou section, and though the resort was beautiful. But, I was really shocked by the theming. What *were* the Disney folks thinking when they put all these slavery images into a resort?

I'm glad Disney made changes (to the name and otherwise) to distance the resort from slavery imagery. And I'm white, by the way.


A perfect example of people drawing conclusions based on a social agenda. Dixie Landings resort no more represent slavery than any other building in any other city in this country.

[SlightlyGoofy]

I am too tired to get involved in a debate, I see all sides of every issue and confuse myself sometimes. LOL

Just a comment that POR used to be our very favorite resort. It had everything, sit down restaurant, food court, piano player in lobby at night, beautiful theming, fantastic pool, boat to Downtown, small grounds and great bus service etc. etc. I preferred it to many of the luxury resorts. Was worth every cent of the money. Since it has changed we stay at the ASp. We miss the beauty of walking the grounds in the cool of the evening after a full day at the parks. Will live on in our memory though.

SG/Linda

[Cris]

Originally posted by DisneyDude10171
I always understood it to show a transition from the urban to the rural. Start in PO(FQ) and you are in a "dense city" move along the Sassagoula until you hit the first Magnolia Bend Mansion - notice how it is a hybrid between PORS and FQ because it utilizes the same layout as a RS mansion but uses FQ building materials such as oxidized copper and more wrought iron. The next three mansions get gradually more simple and less ornate. Finally, we reach the relaxed Alligator Bayou buildings. I have never once thought of these as "slave quarters" nor has it ever "shocked!" me. It is simply meant to resemble rural south housing while providing guests with a new atmosphere at a slightly different room rate.

Alternatively, think of it in relation to modern society: POFQ = metro city, PORS Magnolia Bend = Suburbia, PORS Alligator Bayou = country.

Could you say that Alligator Bayou represents 'poor hicksville country "bumpkin" houses'? Maybe- but even that's an exageration.

It is nice that someone understands the theming.

[jajuan]

Slightly Goofy
Why don't you stay there any more? DL (POR) is still my favorite resort. The grounds are still the same...the rooms have been redone. I don't feel a difference. It has always been my favorite resort at Disney...they still have everything you mentioned in your post...piano player and all.

[SlightlyGoofy]

Jajaun, sorry to be tardy in responding but it is county fair week here and my grands are entered in most everything. I am plumb tuckered out. LOL

It does not have the sit down restaurant anymore and the bus service is combined with Dixie Landings so it does not run like it did before. I am glad to hear that the piano player is still in the lobby, I hope. Maybe you are thinking about the Old Dixie Landings section which still has it all but now shares bus service with the old Port Orleans/French Quarter section?

SG/Linda

[mitros]

Just want to make a point. PC was started by the Clinton/Gore White house. And we have been paying for it ever since. That's ALL I have to say about that.

[SlightlyGoofy]

Mitros, way back when I was a mere child, eons ago, my best pal and I used to sit under a tree and discuss this very subject ad nauseum. She had one opinion and I had another. We were both white BTW (not that it really matters). We still have basically the same opinions but have managed to stay friends in spite of not agreeing on everything. Awesome!!

My problem with PC on any old thing is that everyone is supposed to agree on everything and that just ain't possible. In every case I can think of things have kept to an even balance (sometimes over a period of years) by people who have different points of view.

It doesn't matter to me what color a person is as long as they love the Mouse. LOL

SG/Linda

[Planogirl]

I remember this PC nonsense coming from much further back too. Not that I would blame any adminstration for it.

I agree with the assessment of the theming except that I always saw it as Louisiana style theming and not so much based on the whole south. I saw the city of New Orleans and the nearby plantation houses and of course the cajun influence in the cabins. Which is exactly the way I see southern Louisiana nowadays. I never thought of the cabins as slave cabins!

[ThinkTink510]

[

[disneyfreakjackie]

Originally posted by bigdisneydaddy
I personally was disappointed when the name was changed, I thought the original Dixie Landings name fit the resort perfectly.
;)

I agree!! I LOVE the name Dixie Landings, thats why I keep it in my signature!! My girls love that resort and ask when we are going back!! It will always be Dixie Landings to us!! Maybe they'll change it back!!!???!!! ::yes::

[3DisneyNUTS]

Originally posted by manning
One rumor is it was for political correctness.
Yeah a CM told us this. They changed it because of the nameand being PC....but is dixie a bad word? I don't get it.

[bigdisneydaddy]

"Dixie" is only a bad word if you are an uninformed elitist liberal who tries to find the bad in everything they see.
Amazing how similar the resort looks to New Orleans, does that mean that everyone in New Orleans is also a racist ?
None of my African American friends were ever slaves, nor have any of my Caucasian friends of european descent ever owned a slave. Lets move on please ! I think we can all agree that it WAS wrong and America has repented.