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SKFamily
04-03-2004, 09:31 AM
Anybody worried about this? We just booked our trip to Disneyland on Air Canada the other day. The travel agent assured us it was safe to do. I asked specifically. Now I'm worried. We're booked to go in July.

What happens if Air Canada isn't flying? We've only paid the deposit so far, but I'm sure it's too late to switch airlines and forgo the deposit. The only reason I did Air Canada was because dh was adamant about a direct flight and Air Canada was the only airline that had any. That should have been a big enough clue there.

So I guess if Air Canada is finished, so is our trip. Or do you think I'm worrying over nothing?

Amberle3
04-03-2004, 11:24 AM
First of all, I wouldn't worry too much about Air Canada going under. Yes they are in financial trouble, there's no doubt about that. But remember that Canada is not the like the US, we don't have dozens of carriers transporting people every day. In fact we really only have 1 national airline, although Westjet is expanding to be pretty close to that. Air Canada is the only Canadian airline with codeshare agreements with US carriers to do regularly scheduled transborder flights currenltly (although Jetsgo does one or two flights a week to Las Vegas and Newark).

The point to all that is that when the Air Canada situation becomes critical, someone (probably the government) will step in to ensure that it continues flying until someone takes it over (in whole or in pieces).

Also, because AC does have codeshare agreements with American carriers it means that United can (and hopefully will) step in to take over those routes.

I have a flight booked to LAX in December with AC myself.

The only thing about your post that confuses me is the mention of direct flights. Are you in SK? I don't see any direct flights on AC to LAX from anywhere in SK. As far as I know (and I could easily be wrong) AC only has direct flights to LAX from Calgary, Vancouver and Toronto.

mbb
04-03-2004, 11:59 AM
and you might want to check on the "directness" of your direct flight...unfortunately, direct doesn't always mean get on this plane, sit in this seat, and stay there until you reach your final destination...that's what non-stop is. :D

And a non-stop flight from SK to LAX is, as far as I know, non-existent...and I could easily be wrong, as well...call your TA, and check. That's what they are there for:D

AC has been "on the brink" many times...but too many players at the table have too much at stake...you'll be fine:D

SKFamily
04-03-2004, 04:12 PM
Ok. Guess I'll stop panicking now. :D We're flying out of Calgary. It's cheaper than Regina, we got the direct flight, better choice of flight times, and my parents will look after our dog, take us to the airport and take our vehicle home with them. We'll just travel to their house a couple of days before our flight. I don't really consider the gas driving to their house, because we would have gone there this summer anyway. We'll just get in our visit with them after Disneyland.

I don't have much flight info yet (should be in the mail this week) but we leave at noon and get in at 2:10 - I'm assuming California time, since the agent said the flight is a little over 3 hours. That sounded pretty direct to me - hope I was right.

mbb
04-03-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by SKFamily
Ok..... the flight is a little over 3 hours. That sounded pretty direct to me - hope I was right.

I would say that you are!!:Pinkbounc

Happy planning!!
:sunny:

Amberle3
04-03-2004, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by SKFamily
Ok. Guess I'll stop panicking now. :D

Definitely stop panicking! And yes, sounds like you're on a direct flight.

I do the trip to Disneyland once or twice a year - I was just there in February. If you have any questions, feel free.

mom_rules
04-05-2004, 08:24 AM
Glad you posted this thread-I'm a worrier anyway. We're flying AC this Friday and I know most of their flights out are overbooked.
I almost had DH take the van for a tuneup in case we had to drive down!

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 08:33 AM
They're overbooked?? Why would they do that?

mom_rules
04-05-2004, 08:45 AM
Apparently, most airlines count on a certain percentage of no-shows for one reason or another. This is why flight bumping usually happens.

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 09:06 AM
The story has changed... I'm watching the morning news. Travel agents are now NOT recommending booking with AC, and are saying don't plan on travelling with them. I'm calling my agent as soon as they are open to see if we can switch flights or something. EVERY INSTINCT was telling me not to book with them... I should have ignored dh and gone with my instinct.

madonna31
04-05-2004, 09:33 AM
Rest assured; I am a Disney Specialist travel agent and I ENCOURAGE my clients to fly with Air Canada. This airline really is second to none to all other so-called 'airlines' out there for us Canadians. I don't get why a travel agent would recommend to 'Not' travel with AC when the airline is still running as normal... Do these particular TA's have ESP?!? :confused:

A few issues to address on this thread:

1) EVERY SINGLE AIRLINE OVERBOOKS - NOT just Air Canada. Simply for 'no shows' as they always exist.

2) As mentioned by Amberle - IF the situation gets critical (which it won't - this will be settled long before it gets to that point), the government will step in to ensure that it continues flying one way or another as it is our only national carrier.

3) As mentioned by Amberle - AC has sharing agreements with United Airlines; therefore - one option would be that they will step in to take over those routes.

4) Lastly; if you paid for any airlines tickets w/a credit card and did not receive what you paid for...you are covered for it by the CC company as well.

Hope that helps stop the panic.

:)

mom_rules
04-05-2004, 10:36 AM
Madonna31-can you explain the " if you paid by credit card" part?

mom_rules
04-05-2004, 11:03 AM
Just called my TA-she said that she would absolutely not worry about booking with AC. If you book through a TA and the airline does go bankrupt she said that the Travel Agencies Compensation Fund compensates you. She could not tell me about the credit card part though.

madonna31
04-05-2004, 11:08 AM
The credit card part has nothing to do with TA's - just with the individual card companies.

You see; if you ever purchase any goods via credit card and you do not receive them, the CC company is responsible for reimbursing you for what you purchased.

BTW - I would REALLY stop worrying about all of this...there are two other companies interested in Air Canada as we speak...the airline is not going anywhere.

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 11:18 AM
BTW - it was a Calgary based agency saying "don't book". I haven't called my TA and I don't know if I'm going to - she'll have a nuts enough day. Plus we've only paid the deposit and at this point won't make the final payment until the last possible day. if it turns out we can't go this summer, we'll go back to our original plan of going next March. So there's time to "re-save" any money we may lose. Either way, we'll go.

madonna31
04-05-2004, 11:23 AM
The only way you could possibly lose that deposit to Air Canada is if you paid by cash and EVEN then - the Travel Agency you booked through can retrieve it for you IF they are a properly registered travel agency.

If you paid via credit card - you will recieve your money back from them.

The only concern I would have in this WHOLE thing is the 'headache' is having to re-book the airline tickets/vacation...

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 11:35 AM
Even re-booking wouldn't be that much of a headache. We would have plenty of time I would just call the same travel agent way in advance and have her let me know when the deals start coming in. In some ways it might be easier, we would just have to worry about Southern Sask/Alberta weather at the end of March... with the number of blizzards we had this year, that was a time of year I was hoping to avoid travelling during lol. (Nothing much for years, and then three blizzards in a month and lots of freezing rain closing highways... go figure)

Thanks for the info and the reassurance.

madonna31
04-05-2004, 11:41 AM
Nope - it will only be a headache for your TA...keep in mind - you are one of hundreds of bookings that they would have to change...

Your welcome...glad I could help! :)

mom_rules
04-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Yup-I don't think I'd worry. When I called my TA this am I was the first call they had received on this.

Scratch42
04-05-2004, 01:15 PM
What am I missing here?

At, work and can't DIS, so is there a problem with our flight Friday!

Pls say no!

Scratch
pirate:

TimNDansMom
04-05-2004, 01:22 PM
Janet I think this story in the Toronto Star will help explain what is going on with Air Canada (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1081116611580&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154)

I don't think you have to worry about anything for your Easter trip! :)

Scratch42
04-05-2004, 01:27 PM
I heard something about this but my brain is strictly on

DISNEY!LOL

I'M GOING TO DISNEYWORLD!

Even if I have to WALK there!

They don't want to deal with me at this point and time!

:crazy: :crazy:

Scratch
pirate:

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 01:31 PM
You're fine for an Easter trip. They are protected until April 15th and if they get you there, someone has to get you home I would think.

My TA says anything can happen at this point. It's "wait and see" until April 15th. If they liquidate then we get our money back. Apparently if they find another investor or are given another extension (which is the recommendation of Ernst and Young who is handling this) then it's business as usual until someone says otherwise. And I was just reading the latest thingy from E&Y, and they are recommending a reasonably lenghty extension to allow AC to benefit from their busy season, basically. That's what I gleamed from it, anyway.

Scratch42
04-05-2004, 01:54 PM
DISNEYWORLD!

I would just move into the Castle! It's been my dream anyways!LOL

Scratch
pirate:

TimNDansMom
04-05-2004, 02:06 PM
I wonder how Aeroplan fits in with all of this. We have enough miles for a ticket to Hawaii, I'd hate to lose! We keep talking about another trip back to there but those darn frequent trips to Disney keep getting in the way! ;)

That's what I always say Janet! "Just get me there!" LOL

SKFamily
04-05-2004, 03:04 PM
I think the recommendation is to use Aeroplans ASAP on one of the other airlines that recognizes them. And get a paper ticket.

No matter how this all turns out, in the future I will not book with an airline that is walking such a fine line with financial disaster. The travel agency advised us today not to finish paying for the trip until the last possible minute. Because at this point "anything can happen". Yes we would get our money back, but if all that's tied up is our deposit we can possibly re-book the trip with another airline as soon as Air Canada's liquidation starts. (yeah, right --- if we can get on the phone fast enough!)

And on another note...

I phoned AC this morning with a question that had nothing to do with whether or not they will still be in the air when our trip is planned. As soon as I asked my question, the woman who answered the phone was incredibly rude and condescending. Stress or not, attitude like that over the phone isn't going to help their situation any - it will only cost them customers.

madonna31
04-06-2004, 09:35 AM
Wow...I guess I'm the only one who will be EXTREMELLY upset if Air Canada does go...

We were stranded on the way back from the Orlando airport on a trip to WDW for 14 HOURS (from 8:00AM to 10:30PM) because our plane coming in from Toronto (Royal Airlines) was 'delayed' by a few hours at a time...

It wasn't so bad for us - we just spent 2 weeks in WDW and we were heading home. I felt bad for those coming INTO Orlando from TO - they had been at the Toronto airport since 5:00AM...what a horrible way to start a vacation.

You want to talk about bad customer service? They would not put us up in a hotel - so we spent our entire day in the Orlando airport. They gave us nothing more then $15 food vouchers. Since they already checked our luggage; we couldn't get to it. I was cold and had to purchase a sweatshirt and my mother was unable to get her medication from her suitcase...it was just horrible.

I vowed to NEVER, EVER go charter again. National carriers (such as Air Canada) have another plane coming right behind should yours have a problem...since then - I've taken Air Canada EVERY time and NEVER had a problem...but hey that's just me.

That charter has now gone bankrupt - big surprise there. My point is...based on the fact that if your airplane is delayed on a national carrier, your usually up in the air on another one of their planes within the hour. Since charter flights only have one flight per destination, they can not do this.

Amberle3
04-06-2004, 10:48 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'll also be extremely unhappy if AC goes under. Aside from the major headaches it will also mean the loss of Canada's only true coast-to-coast carrier.

I got this email from ACTA this morning:
"The Association of Canadian Travel Agencies (ACTA) would like to assure its members and consumers that it has been monitoring very closely the evolving situation at Air Canada and that there is no reason to spread uncertainty and fear amongst the traveling public. ACTA has been meeting regularly with senior officials at Air Canada and other key stakeholders and believes that the present situation may be cause for some concern but no apparent imminent threat to travelers.

According to Air Canada’s own statements, the company continues to operate normally and its “2004 revenues are tracking in line with what we projected in our business plan last October.” Air Canada goes on to state that: “Our cash balances are healthy, with current cash balance at $910M in addition to approximately half a billion dollars in available credit.” Air Canada also confirms the present business trend in that advance bookings are up, and this is consistent with feedback we hear from our travel agency members across Canada."

There's more, but that's pretty much the gist of it. Basically don't panic, somehow things will work themselves out.

And yes, this is a MUCH better situation then when the charters (Royal and Canada3000) went under.

SKFamily
04-06-2004, 11:23 AM
I'll be upset, too. It is our only National carrier and would only add to the concerns our country has right now. Yes, other airlines would pick up the flights, but they wouldn't necessarily be Canadian based, would they? Of course my immediate concern right now is very selfish - our very first, at one time only a dream, trip to Disneyland in July. Beyond that, though, I have concerns about the state our country is in with all of the "potential disasters" going on. (Mad Cow, Avian Flu, the sponsorship scandal... the very fact that Air Canada is in trouble just adds to the list) There's what? something like 30,000 people whose jobs rely on this, there has to be a solution somewhere.

As for our trip itself - I've read similar reports on the internet to what Amberle just posted and have hopes that things will work out.

mom_rules
04-06-2004, 12:10 PM
Scratch- Don't worry-be happy! At least we'll get to WDW.

We may not get home (we're not due back until the 18th)-but we'll get there!!

madonna31
04-06-2004, 02:22 PM
Of course my immediate concern right now is very selfish - our very first, at one time only a dream, trip to Disneyland in July.

But you WILL be going to DL, regardless of what happens to Air Canada - so don't worry!! :hug:

Beyond that, though, I have concerns about the state our country is in with all of the "potential disasters" going on. (Mad Cow, Avian Flu, the sponsorship scandal... the very fact that Air Canada is in trouble just adds to the list)

Your 100% right and I guess this is exactly what bothers me about travel agents saying "Don't fly Air Canada".

I mean that to me is just as bad as people in Canada who avoided the city of Toronto when tourism was needed the most ever because of the SARS outbreak, or as bad as the American's who won't buy our beef because of Mad Cow.

It just upsets me that when something Canadian such as Air Canada needs our support more then ever - some are so quick to 'turn against' them and say "Don't fly Air Canada" ...

mom_rules
04-06-2004, 02:34 PM
You're right-We flew AC last April when all this first started. We were a little concerned but didn't have any problems. We also spent the night in Toronto when the WHO issued the Toronto travel advisory (got a great rate on our hotel). Not one mask in sight in the entire area we stayed and the only mask we saw was an oxygen mask on a 90 year old women in a wheelchair at the airport. A lot of ta-do!
Now a new AC rumour bout and all those chicken being slaughtered in BC-come on-don't we Canadians deserve a break?

madonna31
04-06-2004, 02:55 PM
Nope - no one dying in the streets or wearing masks here in TO like the disaster city the media made it out to be... :rolleyes:

What was sad is people that lived here were just as bad.

My DH and I had a 2 week planned trip to WDW aboard (none other then) Air Canada when the whole SARS outbreak started. My SIL was 'appalled' that we were still going to WDW and 'disgusted with us for not at least wearing a mask aboard the plane. :rolleyes:

We sure do deserve a break and that's why it bothers me when the people of our own country are not even supporting us.

RoyalCanadian
04-06-2004, 09:54 PM
1) Article in today's National Post has clarified that the Travel Agents fund has nothing to do with the airlines. If AC is liquidated, there is no guarantee that you will get your money back -- even if you booked with a TA. The emergency fund is to reimburse customers if the TA goes bankrupt.

2) There are still passengers waiting to receive reimbursement from when Canada 3000 was liquidated in November 2001.

3) Keeping all this in mind, I won't be making any discretionary air travel reservations with AC. British Airways will get my business for a September trip to Great Britain.

4) Aeroplan is a separate corporate entity from Air Canada and is not under bankruptcy protection. Aeroplan points are also valid for travel on Star Alliance partners such as Varig, Thai, United, SAS and British Midlands.

SKFamily
04-06-2004, 11:55 PM
So what are we supposed to do? At this point it's only the deposit - we can re-save that. But the trip has to be paid for by May 25th. I don't want to take the chance that the entire cost of the booking could be gone...

The TA told me yesterday that if AC goes under, we would get our money back. I wondered about the time frame, though. Now I know.... don't go against gut instinct. I asked the TA when I booked if AC was safe; she said yes, she's seen this before. I still wasn't completely comfortable with it, but dh wanted the direct flight. Next time we go with instinct.

I'm very tempted to just eat the deposit, cancel that booking and do it again with another airline.

Amberle3
04-07-2004, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by SKFamily
So what are we supposed to do? At this point it's only the deposit - we can re-save that. But the trip has to be paid for by May 25th. I don't want to take the chance that the entire cost of the booking could be gone...

Well, the picture on what's going on with Air Canada will be a whole lot clearer by May 25 for one thing.

For another this is one of the things that having code-share partners is all about. If AC goes under I'm sure that UA will pick up those passengers booked on routes to/from the US. You might get your flight times changed, but I'm sure they'll get you on a flight.

Half the time I take an AC flight to the US it ends up being a UA plane anyway.

Frankly I'd have more faith booking it with AC than NW.

SKFamily
04-07-2004, 10:55 AM
When I really thought about this last night, I realized two things:

1) I already spoke with our TA and was assured that yes, we would get our money back. She said it would be the same as when Canada 3000 went under - everyone who had booked through them was refunded ASAP. The article in the National Post doesn't apply to all agencies apparently. Plus I just heard on the morning news that flights booked through a TA would be refunded, flight booked online (travelocity, expedia) would not.

2) We bought the TA's cancellation insurance, which the TA said at the time covers almost anything, including change in financial status or sick kids who can't travel. Plus we paid by credit card, so we are covered every way we can be. I just don't want to put the trip off, lol.

And like Amberle said, by May 25 the picture will be a lot clearer. We can have a good look at the situation then, talk to the TA and decide what to do just before that. And in the mean time we keep our fingers crossed. Ernst & Young who are handling the bankruptcy are still saying the airline has enough cash to operate for several more months and more $$ coming in with the busy season, so we'll just hope their "several months" covers our trip. ;)

mom_rules
04-07-2004, 02:32 PM
What date have they given as D-Day April 15 or April 30th?

RoyalCanadian
04-07-2004, 02:49 PM
April 15 is the most recent AC deadline.

As for codeshare partners picking up AC flights -- I wouldn't count on it. Such things have to be negotiated through the federal government, and they are not eager to give carte blanche to foreign owned airlines flying Canadian owned routes. It would be a nightmare getting the foreign airlines to give up those routes later on.

As for cancellation insurance -- read the fine print and make sure that airline liquidation/bankruptcy is covered.

SKFamily
04-07-2004, 03:22 PM
April 15th is the closest deadline, they have requested an extension to May 14th. Whether or not that will be granted is up to the judge. The Monitor is recommending that an extension be granted, and AC be given sufficient time to straighten things out in light of Trinity backing out. At this point, nobody can guess on what's going to happen. One person says one thing, someone else says the opposite. (Airline analysts vs. Air Canada) Probably the person who has the best idea of how long AC will be in the air is the judge, and even he can't make a final decision until at least April 15th.

I don't have our stuff from the TA yet, but I just asked on Monday and was assured we are covered if AC goes under. I've been told that by two different agents with that agency, so I'm assuming they know their policies since they've dealt with bankrupt airlines before. (Canada 3000, Royal) When I get the package I will go through it to see what options are available to us if things aren't looking up by May 25th.

As far as other airlines picking it up - I have no idea on that but it isn't something I'm counting on. That would be just way too simple of a solution in my experience.. ;) (when things go wrong around here, they tend to go really wrong...)

Amberle3
04-15-2004, 01:31 PM
Thought I'd just pass on two things I learned today:

Delta Airlines is also is major trouble (not meant to worry anyone) and is 20 BILLION dollars in debt. Makes AC's 9 Billion dollar debt look pretty good!

And this little tidbit from a travel lawyer, pertaining to US carrier bankruptcies:
"As in all airline bankruptcies, DOT issues an order to other airlines requiring them to carry the bankrupt airline's pax on a space-available basis for $25."

I suspect that since any Air Canada transborder flight is a code-share with United, that United would then be responsible for having to accommodate the passengers.

RoyalCanadian
04-15-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Amberle3
Thought I'd just pass on two things I learned today:

I suspect that since any Air Canada transborder flight is a code-share with United, that United would then be responsible for having to accommodate the passengers.

Bearing in mind that it requires a United Airlines plane already flying into YWG. I'm not familiar with how many of those codeshare flights are on UA metal, but one must not necessarily assume that, in the event of the liquidation of AC, UA will be allowed by Transport Canada to fly extra flights in and out of Canadian airports.
I'm hoping against hope that the unions will see the writing on the wall -- Victor Li is the only one with any interest in putting any money on the table. (Gerry Schwartz of Onex is on the record as saying that $27.95 is about all he's willing to invest in Air Canada these days.) If the unions are not willing to give the concessions required there will be no money and, therefore, no jobs.

robsawatsky
04-23-2004, 07:02 PM
Under the "Open Skies" agreement with the US, US air carriers can fly as much as they want between Canada and the USA - so no problem there in quickly picking up any transborder slack. The issue is whether they will honour an AC ticket!? Not necessarily so.

And, I don't for a minute believe the federal gov't will provide any direct funding to AC. They have recently announced plans that will assist all Canadian air carriers with proposals at the cabinet level to:

1. Reduce air fuel taxes.
2. Reduce airport rent (and subsequently the fees airports charge to airlines).
3. Reduce airport security fee.
4. Raise foreign investment limit on Canadian airline co's to 49% from the current 25%.

Previously, there was discussion with Transport Canada and other Canadian airlines to operate domestic flights using aircraft/crew wet-leased from US carriers but operating under their license (i.e. Westjet ticket but perhaps a Southwest plane and crew).

c&m
04-24-2004, 01:28 AM
I agree with robsawatsky...the federal gov't hasn't made a move yet to step in and I doubt it will.

AC had a chance to get bought by a major mover-and-shaker -- Victor Li, son of tycoon Li Kai Shing -- and regain some sort of stability. However, the unions thwarted the buyout, and Victor walked away. Too bad.

We typically fly Alaska Air to LAX. Great airline, friendly service, and food service. On our last flight to DL in mid-March, an Alaska Air stewardess walked a fussy baby up and down the aisle. We were all thoroughly impressed.

Last time I flew AC, I had a pillow thrown at me by a stewardess. My crime??? I asked for one! LOL!!!

mom_rules
04-26-2004, 07:49 AM
Our flight with AC a couple of weeks ago was on a UA plane. Excellent flight, flight attendents were great-and believe it or not the food was wonderful-chicken breast, mushroom gravy, rice, three bean salad and a brownie. Although there were storms in the area our pilot managed to avoid most of the turbulence and the landing was second to none.
Sure hope they hang in there!

jaysue
04-26-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by c&m
I agree with robsawatsky...the federal gov't hasn't made a move yet to step in and I doubt it will.

AC had a chance to get bought by a major mover-and-shaker -- Victor Li, son of tycoon Li Kai Shing -- and regain some sort of stability. However, the unions thwarted the buyout, and Victor walked away. Too bad.

We typically fly Alaska Air to LAX. Great airline, friendly service, and food service. On our last flight to DL in mid-March, an Alaska Air stewardess walked a fussy baby up and down the aisle. We were all thoroughly impressed.

Last time I flew AC, I had a pillow thrown at me by a stewardess. My crime??? I asked for one! LOL!!!

I would not entirely blame the unions - when Victor put his offer on the table, pensions were not mentioned or discussed so from one perspective, he tried to game the deal in the late innings. Lets spread some blame to Milton and co. for trying to get $20MM in bonuses for bringing the airline out of restructuring when they were the ones who led Air Canada in

It takes 2 to tango! (no bad joke re Tango brand intended)

thanks
jaysue

WCMouse
04-26-2004, 09:05 PM
I know this is not the debate board and that is not my intention. I like many of you do not want to see AC go down. I, also like many of you, have had some not so pleasant experiences with other carriers. As well, I like some of you have had terrible experiences with AC.

It is true that we do not want to lose something "Canadian", like Air Canada, but in my opnion more often than not, their attitute, service and comittment to their passengers has been anything but "Canadian".

I know, I know, the 10's of times I have flown with AC and had bad experiences are just unlucky coincidences, and the times I have flown non AC and had good experiences are just luck, but there comes a time when enough is enough. In my opinion, AC has not represented "Canadians" well enough. With diminshing routes, service at times sub-par and general attitude that "We are Canada's only airline so what can anyone do to us" has brought them their own misfortune.

Sure, they are going to blame 9/11 for the slow down, and that is most definately a factor, but there are still many thousands of passengers after 9/11 and instead of trying to entice to continue to fly they have just given up and said, well things are slow and there is nothing we can do.

AC is in the service industry, and there service to towards their passengers, you and I, has not been that great.

For those you you will continue to fly AC great. For those of you who will not, perfectly fine and for those of you like me, who see AC as a last resort.. then that is how it will be.

I hope I did not upset anyone too much... I just feel AC could have done a better job of this, starting a long time ago.... :)

FatCow
04-27-2004, 09:45 AM
Yup! Without fail, everytime I flew with AC, I always experienced flight delays with the minimum of 30 minutes up to 80 minutes... on the plane!

Also, AC counter is also the worst. Bazillion passengers flying on 3 different AC flights, during rush hour, and only one counter open? That's nutso!

I flew with Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines, Japan Air Lines, Garuda Indonesia, Quantas, KLM, British Airways, never anything that nutty ever happened (and I used to fly 6 times a year around the world).

... and they're wondering why don't more people fly AC :rolleyes:

SKFamily
04-27-2004, 11:25 AM
Well, here's some hope for our trip:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000082&sid=aEc0KsusA2wE&refer=canada

Of course one stipulation is that the airline meets the wage cost savings specified. I read in another article that this deal would leave the pensions intact as they are, which was one of the union's biggest complaints about the Li deal, supposedly. Now, whether or not the union will be willing to agree to any further concessions is yet to be seen... one union head says this might be the deal they're looking for.

They're back in court today apparently.... keeping my fingers crossed.

SKFamily
04-27-2004, 11:33 AM
BTW - I recently called customer service at AC and was greeted with nothing but friendliness and co-operation. (I was setting up "meet and assist" at the airports) When I mentioned my previous phone call to them and the snotty, condescending response I got, the service person's reply was "that shouldn't be happening... no matter how much stress the employee is under. If it happens again, get the employee's name and file a complaint immediately."


For those of you who have experienced large numbers of problems or continual problems, what happens when you file a complaint?

madonna31
04-27-2004, 12:18 PM
Yup! Without fail, everytime I flew with AC, I always experienced flight delays with the minimum of 30 minutes up to 80 minutes... on the plane!
I guess it boils down to personal experience, because I have YET to have had a problem with AC, yet have had several problems with some of those other airlines you mentioned.

Also, AC counter is also the worst. Bazillion passengers flying on 3 different AC flights, during rush hour, and only one counter open? That's nutso!
What are you talking about?!? Umm...try 'Express Check In'; AC is actually the ONLY airline at the Toronto airport that has it...use it!!! ::yes::

For those of you who have experienced large numbers of problems or continual problems, what happens when you file a complaint?
lol...Air Canada sure 'aint Walt Disney World...I can guarantee you that you won't get 'free tickets' :teeth:

WCMouse
04-27-2004, 12:51 PM
The express check-in may be available in TO, but out here on the West Coast, there is not such a thing. One very long for all of the Alliance members to check-in at. Thus using the express check-in is just not an option... I can only blame that on AC, and no one else.

madonna31, it sounds great that you have hd no bad experiences with AC, thus I am sure you will continue to use them. I like many others have not and will continue not to use them...:)

FatCow
04-27-2004, 01:07 PM
I'm talking about AC counter at the MCO. 3 flights, rush hour, only one counter opened.

Express check-in, wasn't available several years ago and last month (and the month before that), I had the 'bad luck' of having not a single express check-in work at all during the last two trips (I arrived at the airport around 4:30am for check-in for both flights).

bunnyfoo
04-27-2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by madonna31
What are you talking about?!? Umm...try 'Express Check In'; AC is actually the ONLY airline at the Toronto airport that has it...use it!!! ::yes::

I used the Express Check In for the first time last December. I was really hesitant but the check in line was so long, I figured I had nothing to lose. I was surprised by how easy it was to use... it also let's you switch seats (if there are still unclaimed seats on the flight) and there's always an Air Canada employee around to help out :) On the way back, I was standing in line at MCO and wishing they had the same system in place :p

Actually, the only delays I've experienced are at Pearson airport when I go through security. For some reason, I always get my bags x-rayed and then searched :rolleyes: My friends say that never happens to them, they just have to stand in line for the metal detector. I guess I probably look suspicious ... :rolleyes: :laughing:

SKFamily
04-27-2004, 01:53 PM
Air Canada sure 'aint Walt Disney World...I can guarantee you that you won't get 'free tickets'

Not what I had in mind, actually. I'm just wondering what sort of response a complaint about persistent bad service or flight delays would get. I had to complain about bad service with Canadian years ago, and got a written apology and quite a few free Airmiles (or whatever they were 12 years ago). Never had an opportunity to use them, but at least Canadian acknowledged that the service had been sub-standard. The written apology went a lot further with me than anything free, including air miles I couldn't use.

madonna31
04-27-2004, 02:35 PM
madonna31, it sounds great that you have hd no bad experiences with AC, thus I am sure you will continue to use them.
Your 100% correct, I have NEVER had a bad experience with AC - only with other airlines mentioned.

I like many others have not and will continue not to use them
And in the same token - I have NEVER had a client complain about using AC...

So...like I said in my earlier post - it all boils down to PERSONAL experience. We agree to disagree.

I'm talking about AC counter at the MCO. 3 flights, rush hour, only one counter opened.
Actually - since United and AC are together, you may be seeing the Express Check in for AC very soon at MCO.

Not what I had in mind, actually.
I know you didn't. It was a joke, that's why I used the smiley. Obviously not a good one. Sorry, forget I said anything.

SKFamily
04-27-2004, 02:48 PM
Madonna, I knew you were kidding. ::yes:: (I like that little guy...)

I just realize that for some people the only reason to complain is to try to get something for free, and for some others they don't complain to the people who could actually do something. I was just curious as to how AC handles complaints about stuff like that. Do they tend to take it seriously or sluff it off? Canadian obviously took my complaint fairly seriously at the time. Like I said they apologized in writing and now that I think about it, someone phoned after I got home to make sure our return trip was better than the departure trip. Which it was - wow! (I was travelling alone with a 1 1/2 year old, had requested meet and assist which didn't happen on the departure trip. The complaint was done while I was away, and on the trip home I even had someone push the stroller and carry the diaper bag through the airport for me. All I had to carry was my purse until we met up with my parents, who were picking us up. ) :)

I'm really hoping our AC trip this summer is like yours have been. I think they have the Express Check in Calgary, I'm hoping we can use it - I'm not sure with the meet and assist, though. I figure any company is prone to problems at some point, and I can tolerate a certain amount of them. Even if there is a delay, it depends on how they handle it, KWIM?

madonna31
04-27-2004, 03:23 PM
SKFam - have you ever flown Air Canada before?!?

SKFamily
04-27-2004, 04:56 PM
No... Something I should be aware of? I flew Canadian Airlines from Calgary to Honolulu 12 years ago, that's been my only major flight.

madonna31
04-27-2004, 06:56 PM
No... Something I should be aware of?
Just to make certain that you use the handsoap in the washroom...it's orange/canteloupe flavour and smells yummy! ::yes::

In all seriousness, I just want you to know that I do think your experience with AC this summer will be just fine. Your right; ANY company IS prone to problems and it does depend on how they handle it in order for their customer to decide wheather or not they will use them again.

Everything is going to be just fine and then you will come back here after your trip and be the only other poster on this thread that likes AC besides me. :D

WCMouse
04-27-2004, 07:19 PM
Everything is going to be just fine and then you will come back here after your trip and be the only other poster on this thread that likes AC besides me.

madonna31. I do not think it is that the rest of us do not like AC, but rather prefer the alternative. I would love nothing better than to support AC, but when they have given me poor service, etc. what can they expect me to do.

If a restaurant gives me bad meals, it does not mean that I do not
like them, but will probably not go back there, and will eat somewhere else.

As well, I do not believe it is a matter of agreeing to disagree, because I cannot dispute the fact that you have had great expereinces with AC nor can anyone else dispute that fact that I have not had good experiences with AC.

If they go under so be it... if they stay alive all the better...

Amberle3
04-27-2004, 08:02 PM
I've had much worse service on the US airlines than I've ever had on Air Canada. Granted their customer service level is definitely slipping, but it's still far and away better than most of the US carriers. Northwest earned the nickname NorthWORST for a reason. United decided to board the plane backward (from the front back instead of from the back forward) which resulted in a horrible delay and an obstacle course in the aisle to try and get to seats toward the back. Delta was just plain rude.

I do prefer the laid-back style of Westjet, although I like being able to have seats pre-assigned when booking. But I can't honestly say I've ever had a bad flight with Air Canada. I fly on average one roundtrip flight a month, usually with Westjet these days.

madonna31
04-27-2004, 10:38 PM
I do not think it is that the rest of us do not like AC, but rather prefer the alternative.
Well good for you. My only alternative is a charter airline. If you read this whole thread, you will know that I was held up for 13 hours in an airport by Royal Airlines and after that I vowed NEVER to go charter again. I have flown EVERYTIME since then via AC and it is 1000 times better then MY only alternative.

As well, I do not believe it is a matter of agreeing to disagree, because I cannot dispute the fact that you have had great experiences with AC nor can anyone else dispute that fact that I have not had good experiences with AC.
Huh? Exactly. That's WHY we *agree to disagree* because NEITHER of us can dispute each others experience. I choose to fly AC and you don't. We are respecting one another's decision on that...err...or at least I am.

I only posted on this thread in the first place as a Travel Agent in hopes of 'curing the fears' that some had about losing their money, tickets or whatever due to the scare of AC going under. Most recently I am trying to ease SKFam's fear for her flight to DL. The VERY first AC flight I ever took was to LAX and it was by FAR the best flight I had ever been on. You see, I only posted here to try and help those nervous about their upcoming AC flights. Can we get back on topic now??

This is not the debate board and that is not my intention.
Then stop making it one by picking apart my posts. Especially when it's one where I am just trying to help the OP out.

SKFamily
04-28-2004, 09:06 AM
And I do appreciate the reassurance on the original reason for my post. I never even considered that this might become a "debate" about how good or bad AC is - that wasn't the intent, or the occassional attitude seeming to say that AC should go down because they're a "bad" airline and there are lots of better US based options. Yes I had one bad experience with a call to AC, but the next one was just great. I get bad waitresses at what I know are good restaraunts sometimes, I don't quit going there or bad mouth the whole restaurant over one employee - I complain to management and expect something to be done, a reprimand would be good enough for me. Sometimes this thread has left me thinking "Yeah, let's just "go US" and add to the attitude that Canada isn't it's own country with a lot to offer". Quite frankly at one point I was ready to not book the trip at all - not because of this thread - but because I was annoyed at the amount of garbage potentially involved for Canadian Citizens to get into the USA. I was completely ready to do an "All Canadian" vacation. But Disneyland has been a "dream" vacation for a long time, for my own reasons. One I never thought would ever really happen. Which probably adds to my concern over AC's difficulties. :)

So to those of you with some knowledge and information that allows you to offer the reassurance - thank you. The rest of this thread belongs on another board. If AC goes down before July 6, then I'll have to look at other options for next March. But not until then.

WCMouse
04-28-2004, 09:11 AM
Sorry to upset you madonna31.. never was my intention...signing off from this post..:)

Actually now leaving all posts... thanks for the info in the past... take care... :)

SKFamily
04-30-2004, 03:56 PM
Just talked to my TA this morning - finding how much is left owing on the trip. :rolleyes: Anyway, she said that if AC goes bankrupt we would automatically be put on another flight, most likely Northwest (Northwestern? whichever it's supposed to be) at this point. So I guess the only reason we would need our money back is if we can't get there at all and that most likely won't happen.

Amberle3
04-30-2004, 03:58 PM
Just wanted to pass along a bit of information on Northwest, which for some of us is the only alternative to AC for transborder flights. 2 interesting things in the last week:

1) NW has announced they intend to lay off 120 customer service agents and replace them with 80 skycaps. What this means is that at some airports the person you deal with behind the desk will not be an employee trained in the reservations system and fare rules, but will instead be basically the same as the person who takes your luggage at the curb. They customer service agents get paid $20, skycaps will be paid $10 an unlike the ones at the curb the ones at the desk won't be allowed to take tips.

2) While making these cuts to save under $3 million a year, they're paying out a total of $6.6 million in bonuses to 5 executives.

And people think that Air Canada is in bad shape! I'd still rather travel with AC than NW.

Yzma and Kronk
04-30-2004, 09:02 PM
Delta is also in serious trouble.......so they are reporting here.

I think the time of the "big fat" airlines is now over.

donaldrees
05-01-2004, 12:20 PM
not ALL airlines overbook. Ones that practice responsible business and aren't desperate for a dollar tend to only sell seats they have available. I work in the airline industry and can state this for a fact.

Amberle3
05-01-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by donaldrees
not ALL airlines overbook. Ones that practice responsible business and aren't desperate for a dollar tend to only sell seats they have available. I work in the airline industry and can state this for a fact.

I know that WestJet doesn't overbook. Air Canada does. I was very surprised to learn that Southwest overbooks, since they're the model that Westjet was based on. In fact Southwest has been known to overbook flights by up to 50% in busy seasons.

SKFamily
05-02-2004, 09:52 AM
Here's something I've wondered since the first time I flew... what happens to the people in the "overbooked" seats? Each passenger has booked and paid for their seat... so what does the airline do in the event that people who have booked and paid, can't get on a flight? Or does that even happen that often?

I have relatives who used to fly stand-by on Delta all the time (uncle worked for them). Only during very busy seasons did they wait for flights, hoping someone wouldn't show up. I can understand a passenger missing a flight once in a while, maybe it happens more often than I realized.

eritouma
05-02-2004, 09:57 AM
Our flight from Tokyo to Seoul on NW was overbooked, and we volunteered to get bumped off.

We got a hotel room for the night, food for the that night and the next day$300 each (2 of us) and a seat on the next flight the next day. Since we were not in a hurry, it worked out great for us...:sunny:

mom_rules
05-03-2004, 05:10 PM
On our return trip from MCO they were asking for two volunteers-the first time they asked the offer was a meal voucher and overnight hotel accomodation. Second time was meal voucher, hotel accomodation and first class seats on flight next morning. The third offer was all of the above plus two roundtrip tickets for anywhere the airline flew for use over the next year. There was no fourth offer.

bunnyfoo
05-03-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by mom_rules
On our return trip from MCO they were asking for two volunteers-the first time they asked the offer was a meal voucher and overnight hotel accomodation. Second time was meal voucher, hotel accomodation and first class seats on flight next morning. The third offer was all of the above plus two roundtrip tickets for anywhere the airline flew for use over the next year. There was no fourth offer.

They probably got a lot of volunteers the third time around ... that's a pretty good offer :p

mom_rules
05-03-2004, 05:30 PM
Would have jumped on it ourselves but there were 5 of us (3 were teenagers). Not sure how the others would have coped going on a day ahead of us!