Not-so-Magic Kingdom

[DennisP]

The following editorial was published in the Home News Tribune on February 10, 2004. The editorial states that there has been a policy change regarding "fast passes" for handicapped people. Is anyone familiar with the details of this new policy (i.e. what documentation is required to obtain the special passes)?


Not-so-Magic Kingdom

A Home News Tribune editorial

It may seem like a trivial matter to most people, but parents of special-needs children know otherwise.

In late December, Walt Disney Co. changed its policy regarding the eligibility for so-called "fast passes" at its theme parks. The passes allow handicapped individuals to avoid long waits by moving straight to the front of amusement lines.

The pass is now limited to disabled people who have a mobility handicap or a terminal illness. The trouble with the new rules is that they exclude a whole class of patrons with "invisible" disabilities.

Previously, a doctor's letter stating the specific disability, or a copy of a student's individual education plan, which also lists the specific disability, was enough to obtain the special pass.

The policy is particularly tough on children and their guardians, who cope daily with particular physical and emotional conditions that certain unseen disabilities present. The rules also pose an inconvenience for other visitors to Disney resorts who may come in contact with children who ought not be forced to spend long periods in a slow-moving crowd.

Imagine a 7-year-old with autism who can stand in a line for only a short period of time; any prolonged wait could induce a full-blown tantrum. For children with Tourette Syndrome, the prolonged waiting could increase ticking and become a disruption for those around him. Other cognitive or neurological disabilities may present similar difficulties or their own peculiar reactions to stress.

Disney said it changed the rules because the old policy was being abused. That's probably true. But the solution is far worse: punishing children who physically and psychologically require an added touch of human care.

The Americans with Disabilities Act was created in the early 1990s to ensure, among many accommodations, that individuals with handicaps are not subjected to discrimination because of their physical limitations. It isn't clear whether Disney is breaking that law. What is clear is that Disney is in defiance of its spirit.

Disney should reconsider its stand.:confused:

[KNWVIKING]

Well, to hear the way AV tells it, the abue was so bad the "fast pass" line was longer then the standard line. Abusive, ignorant, idiots ruin something, and Disney gets the bad press for trying to correct it.

Honestly, I doubt the new system will be so inflexible as to deny a family with a 7 yr old autistic a pass if they need one. The CM's aren't cold hearted or stupid. I'm sure common sense will be applied.

[Luv2Roam]

There have been articles on this at miceage.com I think.
The abuse of the FP system at DL has been horrible, from what everyone says. It was literally anyone asking for one got a handicap FP. And everyone did.
You should look up the articles. Interesting reading.
The downside is I think they should have posted notices about the policy change prior to doing so.
I think they just went from handing them out freely, to coming to a dead halt the next day.

[mochabean]

What the Tribune calls a "fast pass" is really the Special Assistance Pass/Special Assistance Card, not what we Disneyholics know as the FastPass.
Anyway,
There is a huge thread about this at mouseplanet:

link (http://mousepad.mouseplanet.com/showthread.php?threadid=23440&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

And also see Kevin Yee's 2/10 report at MiceAge:

link (http://www.miceage.com/kevinyee/ky021004a.htm)

Where he quotes a Disney official:
A Disney official was even quoted in a local paper this week that Disney endeavors to provide "equal access, but not superior access."

Just wanted to post these links.

[ZacinIndy]

Wasn't Autism listed as one of the qualifying disabilities?

[Luv2Roam]

I think the new system at DLR went overboard at first. But now sounds like they are working the bugs out. In another miceage article it cited how other parks have gone through that same.
(example: Legoland)

When this was first implemented, just as an example, I read an article quoting a guest who was upset because they were denied a SAP, even thoiugh they had some form of verification. (I think it was a doctor's letter. :confused: ) The guest was upset because he was expecting and anticipating a SAP so he could ride a few rides after dinner before the parks closed.
The DLR CM's wouldn't even look at his proof. (heart condition if I recall correctly)
And I think that is where part of the problem came into play. Not saying this person had no legit claim, but I think many guests were just relying on SAP and using them as FP.

I wondered on some sites I have read if some guests have certain conditions, why are they wanting to go on some rides they are? :confused:
But not being in that situation....

I know someone who uses SAP and a motorized cart while at WDW. Their problem is bad knees. And they can walk. But going up and down stairs, in addition to walking all day would lay them in bed with an ice bag for at least the next day.

I was at ToT a few weeks ago and in a group behind me was a woman with an qxygen tank/mask. She was boarding the ride for a second time that day.
The CM asked her if she could go through the ride without it.
She replied No.
He said he could not let her board then.
She and others in her group retorted they had just rode ToT with the oxygen.
The CM said -- I know. My boss called me and said you cannot do that again.
She rode ToT w/o the oxygen.

I was actually surprised they let her reboard. I would think something like that would be the same as a neck brace. If anything bad had happened to her on ToT, who would have gotten the brunt of the blame?
I wonder why some are riding the rides they do with the conditions they have anyway. Not meaning to make this a debate. But seems almost like Disney should be list grades of rides on the SAPs. :confused:

[Razor Roman]

Hey Dennis! We live in the same area! The Home News Tribune is my hometown paper (or as we call it "the junk we use to line the bird cage with and wrap our ebay items with") too!

I think the whole goal of phasing out front-of-line priveledges for guests with disabilities has more to do with what most people with disabilities want anyway, treating them the same as everyone else.

As more queues can accept wheelchairs and other assistance devices, front of the line priveledges for guests with wheelchairs are eliminated from the attractions. I was a College Program cast member in 99 and that is what we were taught at least.

I am sure that a child with autism would not be turned away from the front of the line by the greeter (if there is one) and I'm sure that S.A.P. or not, if a cast member saw someone who obviously couldn't wait in line, they would do their best to help that guest through the line as quickly as possible. I know staffing is short and hours are long, but most people that work for Disney decided to work there for a reason, and they understand what makes Disney "special" and still go out of their way to help guests, no matter how disgruntled they have become.

[Razor Roman]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam

I know someone who uses SAP and a motorized cart while at WDW. Their problem is bad knees. And they can walk. But going up and down stairs, in addition to walking all day would lay them in bed with an ice bag for at least the next day.


In cases like that one, I think that the appropriate thing to do in that case is to allow the member of the party with the ECV to wait in their ECV while some of their party wait in the line. When their party gets to the front of the line, they all go together.

Of course, rules are made to be broken, but the whole SAP/Wheelchair rule gets royally abused. Parents rent wheelchairs and their kids switch off on them so that they can get to the front of all the lines.

It's just not fair for everyone esle that waits in line like they are supposed to. So because of the few cheaters, others have to suffer.

[Bob O]

I give disney great credit for trying tp repair a system that allows "so-called" diasbled people to get fotl access at the expense of everyone else who waits in the regular lines or properly uses the fastpass system.
Disney shouldnt reconsider its stand at all and if anything beome tougher on it. It may not be politically correct, but if some child or adult is unable to wait in a line for short periods of time without having a tantrum then maybe they shouldnt be in a crowded theme park and should visit in less busy times where they will have less trouble with crowds.
Alot of people are trying to scam the system by using disney's family friendly behavior against them and thne threaten to go to the press to generate bad pr for the company.
If someone cant truely stand in line then they should be made to wait in a designated area until the people in their group have went thru the full line and then meet them with skipping other guests. These guests dont want equal access, but superior acces!!!

[mrsltg]

ITA, Bob O. My thoughts, exactly!

Erin :D

[WDWHound]

If the reporter cant even get the name of the pass right, I don't trust them to properly research and present a story.

I know Disneyland has been trying to fine tune its special assistance pass program to cut down on abuse. They will eventually move to WDW system, which seems to be successful.

[DennisP]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Based on your comments, I plan to write a letter to the newspaper editor, "clarifying" the editorial.

I agree that WDW has a good system and hopefully a similar system will be successful in Disneyland.

[tigger07082000]

Friends of mine were in WDW a few weeks ago, and she was still able to bypass lines with her handicapped daughter. All she had to present was a doctor's note explaining why the 7 year old could not wait in lines. I think what they're trying to do is stop abuse of the system, not end it. When I was there in '98, I couldn't believe how many able bodied folks rented wheelchairs to speed them and their HUGE families to the front of the lines. I actually saw families where the kids were taking turns being "handicapped." When I was back in December, it looked like families with handicapped children were still able to bypass lines, but the not-so-handicapped were not. I think it's a great move.

Mara
:earsgirl:

[tiggersmom2]

"It may not be politically correct, but if some child or adult is unable to wait in line for short periods of time without having a tantrum then maybe they shouldn't be in a crowded theme park and should visit in less busy times where they will have less trouble with crowds."

You are so right Bob O!

[treesinger]

So, Bob O., I guess we should call Disney and have them declare September and Oct. "Autistic and Tourette's children month."

That notion is ridiculous to me.

And what if a park is abnormally busy during "Autism month"? Should we send those kids home and say, "Sorry, the lines are too long for people like you."?

[MermaidsMom]

I am not posting to comment on the point of the OP'er, but to make a general observation. The last times we were at WDW, the number of people in motorized wheelchairs was at an all time high. I have never seen so many people riding those things before in my entire life. We have been going since 1989 and it's amazing how many people seem to need them now. They were everywhere, and while I am sure that many are legitimate, how can there be that many people in one place that need them? Do you see that many at your local mall, grocery store or movie theatre? Comparing a percentage of people at the parks who use these devices vs. the percentage of people using them in everyday life is interesting. So maybe Disney has examined this sort of thing and MUST do something to keep crowds in the parks/ride moving for everyone.

[treesinger]

Originally posted by MermaidsMom
I am not posting to comment on the point of the OP'er, but to make a general observation. The last times we were at WDW, the number of people in motorized wheelchairs was at an all time high. I have never seen so many people riding those things before in my entire life. We have been going since 1989 and it's amazing how many people seem to need them now. They were everywhere, and while I am sure that some are legitimate, how can there be that many people in one place that need them? Do you see that many at your local mall, grocery store or movie theatre? Comparing a percentage of people at the parks who use these devices vs. the percentage of people using them in everyday life is interesting. So maybe Disney has examined this sort of thing and MUST do something to keep crowds in the parks/ride moving for everyone.

I agree that they definitely need to cut down on the amount of abuse somehow. With WDW, it is such large complex with a lot of walking that many people, who otherwise can walk just fine, find too strenuous. This is no excuse for going FOTL.

Getting an ECV for a trip as a convenience should not be used to abuse the system.

[Chuck S]

WDW does not, and has not for several years, given FOTL access to folks in wheelchairs and ECVs. Most queues have been widened to allow them in with the ambulatory guests. Those attractions that do not have access through the regular queue usually have a limit to the number of w/c ECV guests allowed on the ride at one time, so often our wait is LONGER than folks walking into the attraction. The problem has been in California, where much of Disneyland was built prior to w/c access being required or even considered. Many attractions queues can not be altered to accomodate w/c and ECV guests, so they load through the exits. Again, often without FOTL priority, you simply don't see them waiting when they are separated from the regular queue. DCAs queues are w/c and ECV accessible.

Also, as we "babyboomers" age, a much higher percentage of the general population need w/c and ECVs.

As far as folks that for medical reasons can NOT wait in lines, they should still get FOTL access...these are often terminally ill people with Make a Wish Foundation, or as previously mentioned, Tourette's, Autism(sp?), or other severe conditions that make waiting impossible.

[treesinger]

When my wife was in an ECV, due to a temporary medical condition that kept her from standing than more than a couple minutes at a time, we got FOTL access whenever the ride line did not support a wheelchair. And some of the time, we waited 10-15 minutes even after being pulled aside. I guess it was to make sure that we waited at least a LITTLE bit, just like everyone else. I'm just fine with that. The only people that treated us even a little rudely were others waiting in line who couldn't "see" why my wife was disabled.

I think the way to go is to make sure that those that truly need FOTL access (when it is necessary, of course) get a GAC or equivalent pass. That way, unless you have counterfeit documents, people that get wheelchairs, etc. for FOTL access fraudulently won't be able to because they don't have any of the necessary cards to be granted FOTL.

[Kath816]

Dennis, I also saw this editorial, and my husband and I spent considerable time discussing it. Our feeling was that the writer of the editorial probably hasn't been to Disney World lately to view the rampant abuse. IMHO this is a notoriously biased newspaper.

Razor Roman, you must not like your bird very much! ::rolleyes:

I will watch for your rebuttal DennisP.

[SueM in MN]

The article that the OP referred to has a lot of in-accuracies in it. Basically, the writer of the article took a petition started by a mother of an autistic child as as completely accurate when it has a lot of mis-stated, so-called "facts". Disney did get rid of the Special Assistance Pass at Disneyland, but they are in the process of replacing it with a Special Assistance Card. There is no evidence that they did or meant to get rid of assistance that people with autism need in order to go to the parks. Here's a link to the discussion we've been having on this subject on the disABILITIES Board. (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=498347)
The change is being made to Disneyland and doesn't affect WDW. It appears that they are trying to change the way things are being done at DL to be more like what is done at WDW. The system was changed at WDW about 4-5 years ago and there was a learning period while the system bugs were worked out. Things are not perfect at WDW, but in general, it works well.

One important difference between the 2 parks though is that many of the lines in DL are not wheelchair accessible, while most (and all the fastpass lines) at WDW are accessible.
In general, at WDW, people with wheelchairs or ecvs wait in the same line with everyone else. These are called "Mainstream Queues/Lines". All of the lines at AK and the Studio were built as Mainstream Lines. Lines at MK and Epcot have been renovated to be Mainstream as much as possible. There are a few lines that could not be changed (Spaceship Earth and Small World come to mind) where people in wheelchairs or ecvs go directly to the exit to board. In most cases though, if wheelchair or ecv users board at the exit, it's after waiting in the mainstream line and being "detoured" just before the rest of the line gets to boarding. We frequently see the people who were just ahead of us in line getting off at Buzz Lightyear, for example, while we are still waiting at the exit to board. Because there is little "advantage" to renting a wheelchair at WDW (other than having a place to sit while you wait) there is not much incentive at WDW to rent a wheelchair or ecv if you don't actually need one.

From what I have read, at DL, they were basically giving a pass to anyone who came to Guest Services and asked for (or in some cases, demanded) one. Everyone got the same type of pass/access, whether it was someone who could walk, but not climb stairs or a family with a child with autism. They are changing from that to a "what does the guest need" system.
At WDW (and since the change at DL too), you have to be able to explain your need to Guest Services. If a Guest Assistance Card is given out, it has a stamp to tell what assistance is needed, such as, use an entrance without stairs if you can't climb stairs; a quieter place to wait for someone with autism or similar problems; a place to wait out of the sun if a medical condition makes being in the sun a problem. If (for example) you say you can't stand in line because of a leg or endurance problem, it will be suggested that you rent a wheelchair or ecv and use fastpass as much as possible.
QUOTE FROM WDW GUIDEBOOK FOR GUESTS WITH DISABILITIES:Some Guests may be concerned that they do not have the stamina to wait in our queues. We strongly suggest these Guests consider using a wheelchair, personal scooter or Electric Convenience Vehicle (ECV), as the distance between our attractions is much greater than the length of our queues.
Here's a link to the Guests with Disabilities page on the official Disney website. (http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/common/Plain?id=PlainHomePage#guidebook) Some of the people who have been told that are very vocal about their displeasure with that.
At DL, they were also giving passes for a diagnosis rather than on what assistance the person with that diagnosis needed. So someone at DL might have gotten a pass because they had Cerebral Palsy (CP) or Multiple Sclerosis (MS)and walked well, but with slight limp. Compare that to WDW, where someone with CP would be asked what needs they have. Depending on their disability and needs, they may or may not get a pass. For example, 4 young ladies in my DD's wheelchair dance group, all have CP and use power wheelchairs, but 2 would be able to use the Mainstream lines and would not be likely to get a Guest Assistance Card at WDW. Of the other 2, one is multiply disabled, including attention deficit problems and obsessive compulsive behavior that makes being confined in a line very difficult. The other one drives her power wheelchair with a head control and would have a hard time manouvering thru the turns and switchbacks of some of the mainstream lines.
At WDW, the Guest Assistance Card is issued to the person with a disability and can be used by him/her and up to 5 members of their party. But, it can only be used for a ride when the person with a disability is going on the ride. I've read complaints that at DL, the passes were sometimes used for groups of up to 25 people and "Grandma" might be sitting waiting while the rest of her party used the pass to go on Space Mountain.

[bigiainw]

As the father of a disabled son and the son of a disabled mother, I can only applaud Disney for rectifying this situation. I have long been appalled by the abuse of the system by people who clearly had no need for any special priviledge. I am also sure that those with real need for this type of special dispensation will still receive the kind of service we have come to expect of Disney. I have visited DLP on two occassions and they already operate this type of system in the parks with no issues. The only people who should be upset are those who abused the system and forced the change in the first place!::MickeyMo :jumping1:

[FranP]

Kath816, you needn't sound so hostile about waiting for DennisP's "rebuttal". His whole point was that while he objects to blantant abuse of FOTL requests (we have seen this all too often in WDW when wheelchairs are rented and the parties using them change frequently, etc. so they get FOTL access), he also objected to the tone of the editorial that seemed to say that people who really needed the access were being denied. i.e. the child with autism mentioned in the article. I have occasionally required a wheelchair due to injury while at WDW and felt ridiculously guilty when offered FOTL access and often left the wheelchair outside of the attraction and used a cane to get on the ride. People who need help should get help - people who really don't should thank God they don't and walk on the ride unassisted. (again, I recognize that disabilities are not readily visible and I mean people who really, really need help whether you and I can see it or not!!!!).

[SueM in MN]

People with wheelchairs or ecvs don't get FOTL access at any of the WDW parks, unless they are on a Make A WISH (or similar program) trip. In the past (like pre 1998-99) wheelchair users did get FOL treatment for many rides because the regular lines were not wheelchair accessible and it was easier for the CMs to control traffic that way - NOT to give a perk to wheelchair users.

AK and the Studio were built so that all lines are wheelchair accessible and people with wheelchairs or ecvs wait in line with everyone else.
At MK and Epcot, it was not possible to make all lines on older rides wheelchair accessible, but all of the FastPass lines and as many of the other lines as could be made wheelchair accessible are.

[magic kingdom park]

This is in response to Bob o. I will give you the benfit of the doubt that you do not know anyone that has autism, if you had then you would have not made the comments you made. I have a son that is seven and has Autism, these children do not cope well in crowds and they panic in turn results in a tanturm to what most people would call a bratty child, this is usually the only way they can cope with there feelings, they do not think as we do. I do agree that the pass is abused, I also think that you should have a doctors note in order to get the pass. Why would you think that it is fair for a child with autism not to visit Disney, do you think that we should stay locked up at home and out of the public eye, I don't think so children with Autism are just like other kids and love disney they should not be cheated out of the magic just because they cannot stand in lines very long, and if you think that this is unfair then maybe you and everyone else that feels the way you do should have a child with autism and maybe you would view life a little differently.

And to the people who think that the wheelchairs are being abused, I am a healthy person and it still wore me out to walk all of these parks everyday, some people have things wrong with them and they can't walk that far for that long, I guess they should not go to disney either right? I think disney should be seen by everyone big , small, or disabled, this place is suppose to be magical, I can't belive some of things you people have said about abusing the guest assistance pass. Be thankful for your health because it could happen to you.:mad: :mad:

[Kath816]

I think my message was misunderstood. As the daughter of a dad with a serious heart condition (which could not be "observed" by anyone) and the aunt of a niece with CP it is upsetting ONLY to see people abuse the system. Everyone who needs to gain admission to attractions more easily and quickly absolutely should have access to the medical considerations provided by Disney. As an example, on our last trip, we witnessed a family taking turns in a wheelchair, actually jumping on top of each other, and in and out of it laughing and foooling around. I remember thinking that I hoped someone who really needed assistance was not denied a wheelchair because of this family. But that also lead me to realize why Disney made the decision to check medical conditions more carefully. Hope this clarifies and no one was insulted -- that was not the intent.

[SueM in MN]

WDW has Mainstream Acess for most rides/attactions, which means people in wheelchairs or ecvs wait in the regular (Mainstream) line. Here's a list of things with Mainstream access copied from the official Disney site's page for guests with mobility disabilities: (http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/common/Plain?id=PlainMobilityDPage#mainstream)
Attractions providing mainstream queue access include:

Magic Kingdom® Park
[LIST]
Ariel's Grotto
Astro Orbiter
Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
Donald's Boat
Fantasyland® Character Festival
Judge's Tent
Mickey's Country House
Mickey's PhilharMagic
Mike Fink Keelboats (seasonal)
Minnie's Country House
Pirates of the Caribbean
Space Mountain®
Splash Mountain®
The Barnstormer at Goofy's Wiseacres Farm
"The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management"
The ExtraTERRORestrial Alien Encounter
The Hall of Presidents
The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
The Timekeeper (seasonal)
Tomorrowland® Indy Speedway
Toontown Hall of Fame
Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress (seasonal)

Epcot®

FUTURE WORLD
Imagination!
Innoventions East
Innoventions West
Mission: SPACE
Test Track
The Living Seas
Universe of Energy
Wonders of Life: All Attractions
WORLD SHOWCASE
China Pavilion: "Wonders of China"
France Pavilion: "Impressions de France"
FriendShip Boats
Norway Pavilion: Maelstrom
The American Adventure Pavilion: "The American Adventure"


Disney-MGM Studios

Disney-MGM Studios Backlot Tour
Fantasmic!
Jim Henson's Muppet*Vision 3D
Playhouse Disney - Live On Stage!
Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith
Sounds Dangerous - Starring Drew Carey
Star Tours
The Great Movie Ride
The Magic of Disney Animation
"The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror™"
_Voyage of the Little Mermaid
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream
Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - Play It!

Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park

Caravan Stage
DINOSAUR
Grandmother Willow's Grove
It's Tough To Be A Bug
Kali River Rapids
Kilimanjaro Safaris
Lion King Theater
Maharajah Jungle Trek
Primeval Whirl
Theater in the Wild
The Boneyard
TriceraTop Spin

For many rides that don't have Mainstream Access, wheelchair users wait in line with everyone else and then are detoured to the exit for boarding just before the regular line gets to the boarding area (Haunted Mansion is an example of this).
There are a few rides where there is no way to make the entrance wheelchair accessible, so people using wheelchairs board at the exit without being in the usual line. One example of this is El Rio del Tiempo in Mexico (where there is seldom a line, but there will be a wait for the wheelchair accessible boat to come around). Another example is Small World. Spaceship Earth also has wheelchair users (and people with special needs) board at the exit. There is a little lounge type area set up there for waiting. We have always had a wait there of 15-20 minutes (we usually go when the standby line is basically walking right on).
So, someone renting a wheelchair because they think it will provide them faster access (ot FOTL access) will find that for most rides, they will be waiting in the same line as everyone else. In many cases, you actually wait longer because there are fire an evacuation codes regarding how many special needs people are allowed to be inside an attraction at a time.

[sters]

If it hasn't been mentioned before, I've attached the following link

http://allearsnet.com/pl/dis_aut2.htm

[FranP]

Kath 816, sorry if i misunderstood you!!!! Again, the whole point was just how wrong The New Tribune was in printing their editorial withou getting the correct information. EVERYONE should be able to see and enjoy the parks as comfortably as possible!!!!

[DisneyAnna]

This topic is VERY near and dear to my heart, as I am the proud mom of an 11 year old boy with Autism. As stated earlier, many of you feel that the passes are abused by people that have no OBVIOUS disability. I agree that there may be abuse of the passes, however, bear in mind that not ALL disabilities are obvious. To look at my son, you would never ina million years know that he has Autism. To us, the Special Access is a Godsend. It allows us to share in a 'normal' experience with him.
I have had perfect strangers tell me that my son 'needs a good slapping' when he has meltdowns in public because we've had to wait in line, or he becomes over-stimulated. HOW DARE THEY!!!! As far as I am concerned, when we visit the parks, it is with the intent of "Checking our troubles at the gate". While we are there with our son, it is truly magical because just for that short while, its as if we aren't judged, and the goal of all the people at the parks is to have a wonderful day creating magical memories.
Just as I would not judge the validity of someone elses need for Special Access, I ask that you not be so quick to judge others based on appearances only. There very often is more beneath the surface. And as far as I'm concerned, I think the Disney parks should be the last place ANYONE should be judged.
{And now I shall climb off of my soapbox ;) }

[magic kingdom park]

To Disneyana, thank you, what you said is so true, I also have a seven year old with Autism and to have been judged as if he is just a brat, I guess until you live in our shoes you can't see life as we see it through our childrens eyes. Thanks

[DisneyAnna]

Magic Kingdom Park:

It is my pleasure to speak up on behalf of my Autistic child. I'm glad that what I said was read with an open mind, and I hope that I haven't offended anyone with my comments. I just get so frustrated when I try to do something as normal--and mundane--as shop for groceries and people will stare at my son sitting in the 'merchandise' part of the cart and wonder aloud why that big kid is riding in there? Or stare at us when I demonstrate how words are pronounced, or ask him what color the bananas are. I admit I used to be quick to judge when a child would act up at the store. Now, I look at the parents and the child and say "How lucky you are that you can pitch a fit right here! I only wish I was able to vent my frustrations so easily" and both the kids and parents will look at me--the kids, because someone validated their feelings, and the parents for the understanding that their child is not just being naughty for the sake of being naughty.

Once again, I step down from the soapbox.
{Can you tell that this is a topic about which I am very passionate!?!}

[SueM in MN]

There are 2 errors that I am aware of on the allearsnet page. One of them is the name of the card; it is called the Special Assistance Card at Disneyland (an update of the Special Assistance Pass). At WDW, it is called the Guest Assistance Card (previous to 1999, it was called a Guest Assistance Pass at WDW). The change from "pass" to "card" was made to better reflect what it is. It is not a pass and does not give immediate access, but is a tool to let CMs know what sorts of assistance guests need.
The other is that although many people do bring a doctor's letter, it is not required.
There are many good hints for people dealing with autism on that site and also on this site, (http://pixiedustinn.com/disabilitiesfaq/DisabilitiesFAQ.html) plus, you can always visit the disABILITIES Board to ask questions.

[Apollo53]

I think we all know there as been abuse of the Guest Assistance Card, so I agree, Disney should be more strict in thier policy and require documentation.

I also think many people fail to realize that not all disabilities are visible. Ask yourself how many times comments have been made when someone gets out a wheelchair and walks normally, far too many times.

I myself have a form of MS called Myasthenia Gravis, I can walk around and even run at times, I appear to perfectly healthy. I never use a wheelchair or have problems doing any daily task.
Of course it takes 15 to 22 pills a day to allow me to function without assistance.

WDW is another story, I just recently returned from a five day stay and found it extremely difficult to make it through the day without approaching overdoses of my medication. I found myself taking many rest and exhausted by early evening. As I told my wife, I do believe for my own health it may be best to use a wheelchair if we go again. Of course I suspect I'll get stares and comments which I don't deserve. I'm not looking to get to the front of the line, and I'll gladly wait but still some will say I'm abusing the system even though I have documentation.

The point is its very hard for the avg. person to distinguish who is and who isn't disabled and therefore have a need. So its best to leave it up to the doctors and Disney policy, rather than to accuse anyone of abuse.

Be happy your heathly!

[momof3disneyholics]

DisneyAnna, Magic Kingdom Park, and everyone else that has an autistic child, well said!
My autistic child is only 3, but I already see the judgements from others every day. They look at my child and wonder why he is just cooing like a baby instead of talking and someone always makes a comment when he has a tantrum in public.
When that other poster commented on we shouldn't have our children in the parks I actually cried. That is the kind of discrimination that I know my child will have to have his whole life. My 7 year old is already more sensitive to my son than most adults I encounter
Now, I have two other children. Am I suppose to take those two to Disney and leave my autistic one at home? As most autistic parents know it is already hard to lead a normal life and do normal things like go to the mall or go out to eat or take your kids to Chuck e Cheese or bowling. Autistic kids simply can get sensory overload and cannot handle normal situations. Even with the special needs pass we still can't sit through any shows because my son has a limit of about 10 mins he can sit still in my lap.
That special needs pass is an absolute must for my family to go. If my child would stand in line without getting overloaded and screaming, we would do it. He simply can't. Does that mean he shouldn't have the experience of Disney? My son doesn't show alot of emotions, but when I see him smiling on a ride and I can actually tell what is going on in his head even for just a moment, it makes going worthwhile.
If you don't think we should have special access to the attraction, then you are just ignorant.

[SondraD11]

I just returned from a trip to Disney. My daughter-in-law had trouble walking the long distances by the third day and I had some knee problems. We rented a wheelchair and shared it between us to take breaks from the walking and standing. I really don't understand why it should matter to anyone that we did this. At each attraction, we left the wheelchair in the stroller parking area and waited in the regular line with everyone else. I believe that Disney makes strollers/wheelchairs/ECVs available to all who might want that assistance. It has nothing to do with special front of the line priviledges.

Sondra :earsgirl:

[mrsltg]

This thread is getting heated because many people feel that *they* have some special circumstance that makes it so that *they* should be treated differently from everyone else. If it were truly the case that there were this many people in the world who deserved to go ahead of me, I'd never get anywhere, and neither would any of your children because they too would be in line behind someone who had better "special circumstances".

Disney is right to tighten the reigns here. They need to think of all of their guests, not just those with whatever disability has been presented. The fact that your child can't wait in line does not trump my child's right to have a turn. What Bob O. said was right. Visit during the off season when crowds are low if your child cannot wait and is over-stimulated by large crowds. No one is faulting a child who is disabled. No one is saying that they should be locked in their rooms, so let's get back to reality. What people are saying, legitimately, is that the fact that your child needs some sort of special acommodation does not mean that everyone else must get out of the way.

To the poster who questions "fairness". Please! Life is not fair! Their are children who go to bed hungry every night in this country. To them Disney is not a right - it's not even a dream. Don't speak of "fair" when it comes to whether or not your child can handle a line. When your family can afford to drop thousands of $$$ for a week in WDW while another family can't afford to heat their home or feed themselves, talking about "fair" is more than a little outlandish. Let's get some perspective on the matter, please.

Erin :D

[DisneyAnna]

Hmmmmm....let me see if I understand.
You are saying that because I have a special needs child, they should not be afforded any special courtesies to adapt the experience for them--is that right?
So, in essence, you would also say that the policy of providing the option of hearing a voice mail message in English or Spanish is unnecessary, correct?
Now, I am not saying that the inability to speak fluent English is a handicap, I am just trying to understand that you feel no type of accomodations should be made to adapt a given situation to a larger population--is that correct?
A long time ago, I saw a bumpersticker on a car parking in a handicapped spot at the mall. It was a VERY cold day, and as luck would have it, I had to park quite a distance from the entrance. As I walked, I TOTALLY begrudged all of the lucky folks who got to park closer than me. The bumper sticker read: "I would gladly trade my parking spot for two good legs."
THAT totally shamed me!! And I honestly think that that was the point that I stopped judging others without knowing their circumstances.
I guess what I'm getting at is that., while it may be frustrating to have to stand in lines on a hot day with your kids whining and crabbing, please understand that I would GLADLY give up my Special Access Pass to have my son attend 'regular' school, go to birthday parties, have friends come over to play, see him play baseball, hear him say to me "Mommy, I love you so much!"


Think about it.......then if you wish to begrudge me the Special Access Pass, so be it.

[mrsltg]

You are saying that because I have a special needs child, they should not be afforded any special courtesies to adapt the experience for them--is that right?

EXACTLY!!! They're not being afforded special "courtesies", they're being given special privileges. There is a HUGE difference. And no, the experience is the experience. Each individual adapts it to themselves. I am truly sorry that your child cannot stand on a line. I am quite sure that this makes life difficult for you. And I agree that going to the grocery store is going to be hard for you. However, Disney is a choice - not a right. If your child can't stand on line, how do they handle the crowds inherent to a Disney vacation? How do you get your food? How do they deal with needing to use the restroom if there is a line? Do you just move ahead? Does my daughter's need to use the toilet become less important because of your child? Does my daughter not need her lunch as quickly? Does my daughter not count as much as your child? Apparently you think so. The fact that your child has a disability that makes crowds and lines more difficult does not mean that everyone else in the world should move out of your way.

So, in essence, you would also say that the policy of providing the option of hearing a voice mail message in English or Spanish is unnecessary, correct?

This is simply ridiculous. This has no impact on the enjoyment of other guests. You choose, English or Spanish. However, when a group simply walks to the front of the line while others have been waiting however long, and have no opportunity to access the same privelege (ie, fast pass), you are impacting everyone around you.

You have decided that your child's disability matters more than everyone else. I wonder, would you support Disney allowing everyone in a wheelchair front of the line access? I mean, they have a disability and life is arguably harder for them. Shouldn't they be given special priveleges? What if that means that you arrive at a ride and there is a ten minute wait even with your special access card because, well, someone else is in front of you? How would your child handle this situation? Would they have a meltdown? Would you have to leave the parks for the day? Would you be annoyed because you had to wait? What about parents of toddlers? Talk about those prone to meltdown! Shouldn't they get special priveleges because their children can't handle waiting in line? Are those children less important than yours?

I am certain that you would move heaven and earth for a "normal" child as opposed to a child with a disability. I don't doubt that for a minute. But please don't suppose that therefore all of the other parents out there need to stop whatever they are doing and let you go about your way. It just doesn't work like that.

Clearly there are times when someone should be automatically bumped to the front of the line. Make a Wish has been pointed out several times. There is, however, a difference between a terminal child and one with an emotional/developmental disability.

Erin :D

[DisneyAnna]

I in no way intended for nay of my statements to be interpreted to mean that because my child has 'special needs' that makes him more important and should be given the red carpet treatment. I apologize if there was any misunderstanding. However, I think it should be reiterated that just because you have the Special Access Card, it does neot mean that you are simply ushered right onto the ride/attraction.
Quite often, we have still had to wait. What the card does for us is eliminate the often over-stimulation of the queue line. Many of them have television monitors or music which, in addition to the crowds is simply a melt down in the making.
With regard to your youngster unable to avoid the meltdowns, please understand that I know that is a difficult situation, but my son is 11, and looks every bit his age. When HE has a meltdown, we have had to endure stares, glares and rude remarks further adding to our embarassment.
As for toileting issues, I simply take him in with me if my husband is occupied with our daughter. Talk about rude stares, but since he can't tell me if someone is touching him inappropriately, I gladly suffer through the stares and judgements.

I think we all agree that there are folks who are abusing the priviledge--and it IS a priveledge--and that is unfortunate.
I don't know what how to avoid the abuse, but I certainly don't think eliminating the Special Access Cards is the answer. There is a valid need for this 'service' and I would hate to see it end just because some people see it as a way to circumvent the system.

Again, I apologize if I've offended anyone, but please try to see it from the perspective of a parent with not only a Special Child--as ALL children are Special--but a Special Needs child.

[Tjkane28]

Is this thread going to be shut down?

Probably... because people's thoughts are getting to REAL and someone may be hurt.

Please don't write anything that may express your true feelings regarding this important issue. Any more TRUTH may send the censors into overload!

I am truly enjoying all sides of this discussion...

[bigiainw]

As I understand it, the special assistance pass has not been removed or recinded, the criteria for obtaining it have merely been tightened. If, as it seems, this requires anyone wishing to make use of one to be able to prove that they have that need, then surely this is no great hardship. After all, disabled parking badges are available to those who can prove their need, in the UK at least. The benefit of proving that one is needed far outweighs the difficulty in obtaining one and anyone who is legally entitled does not seem to worry about having to prove this. Why should access to the special assistance pass be any different? Whether the disability is visible or not should not be an issue. If the criteria for obtaining one are followed by the staff who administer the system, then there should be no-one obtaining the pass who is not entitled, and everyone who is entitled should ensure that they have the correct documentation, to ensure that if they require this facility for the enjoyment of their visit, their access to the pass is easily facilitiated.

It really is that simple!:yo-yo:

[ShadowWind]

I often travel through Disney World on an ECV in both the parks and the outside (resorts, etc), as I have some very serious muscle problems that relate to my condition, problems that manifest itself in more than short walks. However, I am often looked upon as cheating if someone sees me get out of the ECV, but I have gotten to the point where I don't really care. They don't know my problems, and as one poster pointed out, I'd rather be able to walk like I used to than be in that ECV at all, but I have to deal with fate as is given me.

Until reading this post, I never even knew there was such a thing as a pass at all. It's nothing I've ever asked for. I travel around the parks on an outside rented ECV, due to needing it beyond just walking in the parks. I do follow the instructions on how to get into an attraction when I approach with an ECV as some rides have different systems for such things (Voyage of the Little Mermaid for example), but if the system is to wait, then I'm just as happy to do that. If I'm sitting, to me 15 minutes or 1 minute makes little difference.

I've gotten up out of the chair several times to get food or to see something that is not possible to see at ECV level and I've gotten staires and heard comments about it. These people don't realize that from a walking perspective that 10 feet is much different than miles of walking in the park. I would love nothing more than to walk the parks like I used to again. I don't see that happening, but because of the ECV, I am able to get around fairly well and be able to enjoy the things I love about Disney.

If it's any consolation, there is very little more embarassing than trying to get an ECV in a Disney Bus...

[SueM in MN]

Most of the lines at WDW are wheelchair accessible, so in most cases, people with ecvs or wheelchairs don't have a need for a Guest Assistance Card. The exception would be people who use a wheelchair or ecv and have other invisible needs. (It is different at Disneyland, where most of the lines are NOT accessible).
People DO judge what they don't know though. I have heard people comment that my DD must be "cheating" because they saw her sitting on a bench next to her wheelchair. She had her legs crossed and was swinging her top leg. From that tiny little picture, we got a few comments from people passing by saying that we must be "cheating to avoid lines" . Never mind that she had a $4000 custom wheelchair sitting next to her (and an $8000 power wheelchair at home). Never mind that she can't stand up by herself, didn't get herself to the bench and can't even cross her leg so she can swing it unless someone helps her do it. To those couple of people who commented, because she was out of the wheelchair, she must have been using the wheelchair to get some special advantage.

Now, on that particular trip, some of our waits included:

Safari at AK was walk right on at the time we went for people who could walk, a 40 minute wait for those of us who needed the wheelchair accessible Safari truck
Little Mermaid where we had fastpasses, when we came back to use them, there were already too many wheelchair parties, so we had to come to the next show.
Buzz Lightyear where we had fastpasses, we waited in the regular fastpass line with all the other fastpass holders. Just before boarding, wheelchair users are pulled off to board at the exit. We saw the party who had been just ahead of us in line getting off while we were still waiting at the eixt to board.
Spaceship Earth. We purposely waited to go on until the standby line was basically walking right on. Wheelchair users wait in a sitting area near the eixt. We waited for over 1/2 hour to be taken on to board.

So, if you think wheelchair or ecv users have such a great advantage, please come tour with us to see what it's really like.