Shrek vs. Atlantis: Analysis

[Sarangel]

CBS Marketwatch (http://cbs.marketwatch.com) (which seems not to be allowing direct links this morning) has some interesting analysis about the summer movies, focusing on speculation about how Atlantis will do against Shrek.

Check out their page, enter 'DIS' in the quote finder & click on the 'Will Shrek throw water on Disney's Atlantis?' news article.

Sarangel

[HBK]

Somewhere, the little dwarf (and I don't mean Faraquat) is getting some good chuckles....while the oger (and I don't mean Shrek) is getting a little ansy.


When is the last time Disney has been this concerned about the release of their movies???

[DisDuck]

Here we go again. Regardless of preview comments. Critic comments. Its Eisner versus Katzenberg.

I haven't seem Shrek, my 16 yo daughter hasn't seen Shrek and most of her friends haven't seen Shrek.

[HBK]

I haven't seem Shrek, my 16 yo daughter hasn't seen Shrek and most of her friends haven't seen Shrek.

WHO CARES? Why don't you take yourself, your daughter, JeffH & his daughter and create your own opinion poll....I'm sure you'll have a hoot @ Animal Kingdom all by yourselves.


The box office numbers don't lie. They aren't biased (as you and I both are).

The numbers show Shrek as already beating Pearl Harbor (A movie whose success Disney relied HEAVILY on), and from all indications, it will have the staying power to defeat Atlantis.

[Josiah Harper]

And what, HBK, might those indications be? Considering Atlantis was just released today (other than the early opening in Cali and NYC), how might such indications be determined?

It's the "nature of the beast" that the masses flock to new movies each weekend there's a new release, and considering the positive press a number of media outlets are giving the film, perhaps we may need to wait for reliable "indications."

Joe

[HBK]

And what, HBK, might those indications be? Considering Atlantis was just released today (other than the early opening in Cali and NYC), how might such indications be determined?

Could it be the reports of Shrek being on the fast track to top Lion King? Could it be the timing of the Atlantis opening (Head to Head with Tomb Raider)? Could it be that positive word of mouth has already been established for Shrek, whereas there has been little to no pre-release hype for Atlantis?

[All Aboard]

Could it be the reports of Shrek being on the fast track to top Lion King?

Am I wrong or did Lion King do $320M domestic gross in 1994$ ?? There are reports that Shrek is going to top that? I guess I'm not reading the right stuff.

BTW, I've seen quite a bit of Atlantis hype lately. Plus, quite a few 3 star and 3.5 star ratings. I'm not counting Atlantis out just yet.

I may be alone on this one, but I think it has much broader appeal than Tomb Raider. I bet the PG-13 label is going to lock-out a bunch of sales. And I don't see too many adult-only parties going to see it. I could be wrong, but I bet Atlantis beats Tomb Raider, and beats it good.

[HBK]

I may be alone on this one, but I think it has much broader appeal than Tomb Raider. I bet the PG-13 label is going to lock-out a bunch of sales. And I don't see too many adult-only parties going to see it. I could be wrong, but I bet Atlantis beats Tomb Raider, and beats it good.

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. I'd take the Tomb Raider odds. The hype for Tomb Raider has been running rampant for aobut 2 weeks. I've seen TV Ads, Angelina Jolie stories, etc....where as I've only just recently started to see Atlantis advertising.....which makes sense since Disney had their hype machine rolling fully behind Pearl Harbor....

Even with the horrible reviews, Tomb Raider will do big business this weekend. After that I think it will start to tank.

Am I wrong or did Lion King do $320M domestic gross in 1994$ ?? There are reports that Shrek is going to top that? I guess I'm not reading the right stuff.

All of the news articles I've seen have been tracking Shrek's performance....and it's been ahead of the pace set by Lion King.

We'll see what happens by the end of the summer. I think Katzenburg will have plenty to smile about.

[DisDuck]

Yes, there has been hype on Tomb just here in Northern New Jersey I have only seen it for a week not 2 or 3. Also, the talk has been as much I how Jolie looks/doen't look like the video Lara then on the movie itself.

If my children were younger I might not take them to see Tomb because of its PG-13.

The news sources I have looked at (from Iwon.com) do not indicate a domestic gross like The Lion King. Up there but not more than.

HBK, boy did you get a burr under the collar. What was so inflammatory about stating that I had not seen Shrek. You did not bother to ask why. Well, here's the answer, hope it makes your day. MY MOTHER PASSED AWAY ON MAY 22 AND I AM OBSERVING A 30 DAY MOURNING PERIOD WHICH IS ALSO WHY I WON'T SEE 'ATLANTIS' THIS WEEK END EITHER. MY MOURNING ENDS NEXT FRIDAY. I have not gone into hiding which is why I still read/post here at DIS but I am refraining from most entertainment and go to services each Friday evening.

[HBK]

I am truely sorry for you loss...but you're not going to make me look like the insensitive one.

Here we go again. Regardless of preview comments. Critic comments. Its Eisner versus Katzenberg.

I haven't seem Shrek, my 16 yo daughter hasn't seen Shrek and most of her friends haven't seen Shrek.

Duck,

I don't see any mourning there. I see a lot of sarcasm, and a general brushing off of my previous post.

Sorry for your loss Duck.

P.S. Are your 16 yo daughter's friends in a 30 day state of mourning as well? Are you implying that's why they haven't seen it?

[DisDuck]

Enough said, you did miss the whole point. Their was no sarcasm in my thoughts or writings. Just a statement of fact. I will see when I can.

Last post, I promise on this thread.

[HBK]

Enough said, you did miss the whole point

I don't feel I did. I think I got the whole point. You just didn't like the response.

Last post, I promise on this thread.
Same here.


Aside from the board arguements, I am sorry for your loss.

[gary]

My concolences, Duck. A loss like that is hard.

On the topic of the thread, I don't particularly care about box office in competetive terms (i.e., Shrek vs. Atlantis vs. Pearl vs. Tomb). I care that Disney continues to make quality movies, and that these movies do well enough to enable Disney to continue to make quality movies. And that Atlantis is good enough for Ei$ner to get his wallet out and fund the ride!

Heck, what do kids know about quality movies anyway? My son went to see "Mortal Kombat" 3 times! And we bought the tape!

P.S. Duck, I grew up in Wayne. Went to Wayne Hills (class of '78).

[Planogirl]

I hope that Shrek completely lays waste to Atlantis as far as stats goes while Atlantis still makes good money. If Shrek coming out on top doesn't motivate Eisner and company out of their doldrums, I don't know what will.

My condolences, DisDuck.

[YoHo]

Planogirl and others, here's the problem with hoping Shrek will scare Eisner into positive action.

1: Animators are expensive and that is at this point in time Katzenberg's fault (I'm sure he'll be hurt by it eventually, people who do that kind of salary wars usually are)

2: Apparently Atlantis actually is a very good movie.


If Atlantis gets positive reviews and Tanks, they sure as heck won't make more good movies like atlantis, nor will they go back to the lion king, no, they'll try to out-shrek shrek and fast track to Lion King grosses or not, I've seen at least as many positive as I've seen negative comments from the public about the movie. All the people in my Demo that I know that saw the movie found it lacking just as I did.

So a Vote for Shrek is as much a Vote for Mediocraty as anything.


Personally, and I think AV would agree, I don't see anything that any movie can do anymore that will right the Disney Animation ship at this time. There needs to be an overhaul in managment thinking.

[Sarangel]

Regarding the sub-discussion between HBK & DisDuck:

This is a good time to remind people about the cardinal rule about reading e-mail - please, when you think something is overly sarcastic or insensitive, take a moment to think about it...have someone else read the post & give you their opinion...contact a moderator...or PM the poster *before* you open up on them in the general forum. Remember that you can't hear tonal inflection & there's almost always more than one way to read a set of words. I didn't 'hear' anything sarcastic in DisDuck's response.

Sarangel

[HBK]

Sara,

Since you seem to have picked a side, let me present mine.

Duck claimed my post was simply ei$ner bashing. He also went on to write about how he, his daughter and his daughter's friends had not seen it.

I read that as his stance being noone he knows wants to see the movie. I'm not sure what other interpretation can be made of that context.

He then tries to make me look like the bad guy by saying he hadn't seen Shrek and hadn't because of his month long obligation to mourn the loss of his mother.

If that was his intent of his first post, why add the tag line of "and none of my 16 yo daughter's friends have either"? Are they in the month long mourning period as well?

I told Duck I was sorry for his loss. I truely am. But if his stance is he hadn't seen Shrek, and planned to once in a better frame of mind, he really had no educated stance on the subject which you posted originally.

If you've seen the movie Shrek, you know there were many ribs at the Disney company, and the main villian of the movie resembles Ei$ner very closely. Obviously Katzenburg has taken great pleasure at taking a few jabs at his previous employeer.

Based on Shrek's box office performance, it would seem he's been given even more ammo to enjoy "sticking" it to Disney (by outdoing Disney's Pearl Harbor...and possibly Atlantis).

P.S. I'll be sure to have our legal department review all posts to insure I'm totally PC

[lrodk]

As Sarangel stated HBK, if you or anyone else has a concern about another guest's comments with regard to being inflammatory or objectionable, please contact either sarangel or myself. Let us handle it. The DISs policy, in all fairness to the other guests, is to handle disputes or misunderstandings outside of public forum so as to spare everyone else the distraction and to prevent us from getting off topic. With that said, this is not the appropriate place to vent about whatever little annoyance you may have perceived. I too did not see anything inflammatory in DisDuck's comments. And after reading DisDucks's following posts I'm fairly confident there was no ill intent.

[Testtrack321]

I was wondering if all you Shrek loves out there noticed something why your movie is doing so well... IT IS THE ONLY UNDER PG MOVIE OUT THERE! Shrek will fall when more family orented movies come out (Atlantis, Cats v. Dogs, Dr. D2...)

[MikeS]

YoHo
I read this morning that almost 50% of Disney's animation Dept wwere given pink slips this week.they had a bad feeling about Atlantis and with Shrek being the Summer Movie so far they felt it was a tough act to follow. Sad part is the animators will run down the street and be hired by Dreamworks. The Cycle continues downward for Disney animation.

[Planogirl]

But I do want Atlantis to do well. I just want Shrek to do better or at least the same business.

I don't believe that Disney will decide to quit doing "Disney" products if Shrek does well. Disney has long been the leader in the animated field and I am hopeful that any threat to that will at least cause Disney to take a long hard look at its product. I don't think that they will try to make a Shrek clone because Disney has also always seen itself as an innovator. Maybe a bit of innovation could actually come out of this company as a result but if they are still laying off animators, I guess that this is just a foolish dream.

By the way, I don't consider Shrek the best animated movie ever made. Far from it. I liked it and consider it something different which is good to me. Shrek doesn't copy Disney and that may be one reason for the movie's success. As far as people being critical of it, I also heard tons of criticism of Titanic but of course the film makers ended up laughing all the way to the bank. And making money is what really matters to the movie studios isn't it?

[HBK]

The lords have spoken...

With that said, this is not the appropriate place to vent about whatever little annoyance you may have perceived. I too did not see anything inflammatory in DisDuck's comments. And after reading DisDucks's following posts I'm fairly confident there was no ill intent.

Fine. He and his daughters, and their friends haven't seen Shrek, but they all plan to. I stand corrected.

Back to the main topic of this post, which was will Shrek pour water onto Atlantis?

I don't think that they will try to make a Shrek clone because Disney has also always seen itself as an innovator.

Unfortunatly, Disney seems to have long since abandoned innovation. They seem to be too content to lean on outside sources....using just enough resources to get by.

I personally hope Shrek not only defeats Pearl (which it has), I hope it defeats Atlantis (which it probably will), and I hope it tops Lion King's records (I don't know, but it's the first movie in a long time which has a shot).

Why do I want Shrek to do so well? Do I want to see Disney fold? Do I hate Disney?

No. I want to see Ei$ner get some of his own medicine. I'm sick of the company doing second rate projects because "noone else is doing anything more". I don't want the animation industry to disappear into stupid sequels of movies which ruin the "happily ever after" ending the first one had. I'm sick of the cutbacks of quality I've become accustomed to being explained as the needs of the company to survive.

There are more and more hotel rooms, with less and less for these people to do....yet prices are as high as ever.

Employees are being let go left and right, but they go and hire Tiger Woods to do something for $50 Million Dollars.

It's an outrage....and I hope Shrek destory's any of Disney's movies this year. It serves them right.

Animators are expensive and that is at this point in time Katzenberg's fault (I'm sure he'll be hurt by it eventually, people who do that kind of salary wars usually are)

It's funny....according to the article Sara linked to, Shrek only cost Dreamworks $60 million to make. It sure doesn't seem like Katzenberg is having financial trouble making profitable, successfull animated movies (CGI no less).

[DisDuck]

gary, my oldest son is Hills class of 93 while my middle others are Valley class of 99 and class of 2003. Been living here since 1982. Its a Small World After All.

[Buzz2001]

Shrek was a good movie.

Here is a list of all-time movies adjusted to todays movie prices. Lets see how many of dreamworks animated movies are on the list.

I think you'll be surprised as to what Disney movie tops the list

http://movieboxoffice.about.com/movies/movieboxoffice/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.the-movie-times.com%2Fthrsdir%2FTop10everad.html

[YoHo]

Buzz2001, are you sure that site is accurate? I have never ever seen The Jungle book out rank Snow White, and I've seen probably 20 or so of these reports. Other then that, the first 2 have always been those two and I think Snow Whitewas always 3rd.

Actually, running through some calculations, I'm almost positive that this site is doing its math wrong.

That not withstanding, I love looking at ajusted grosses, because it tells you how many people actually went to see the movie, which is more important when ranking based on popularity.

[Buzz2001]

YoHo, I found it while searching for a site with this weekends box office totals. You could be correct, I'm not sure. I just thought it was interesting.

[Carl]

I don't watch many cartoons, so I'm no expert. But, I did enjoy A Bug's Life. I have only seen the promos for the two cartoons being discussed. Based ONLY on those, I'd prefer Shrek over Atlantis, for purely technological reasons. The realism of Shrek is closer to Bug's Life than is Atlantis. You know what I mean, more 3-D looking. I also thought, again only from promos, that the humor and characters were more interesting. In conclusion, I won't buy either, but will probably look at Shrek when it comes on a non-PPV station.
PS. I DID buy the Bug's Life DVD.