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Beachball
11-13-2003, 07:53 PM
I've heard that Disney has bids out for building a new ship.

Does anyone have any information on this?

ThreeCircles
11-13-2003, 09:09 PM
No one really has a firm answer one way or the other.

Many insist that Disney is already in the contracting stage for a third (and maybe fourth) ship and others insist that no plans for any additional ships are being made at this time.

At the very least, I'm sure we can assume that Disney has (and/or) is considering additional ship(s).

FLeisure
11-13-2003, 09:14 PM
Disney is definately looking at its options and it's no secret that they are looking at a 3rd ship to operate in 2005/6. Obviously details are sketchy at this point in time as Disney is playing dumb on the subject.

Masonpips
11-13-2003, 09:24 PM
Our server in Palo (11/1 cruise - Praeglon sp?) mentioned this and the Cruise Sales guy discussed it with dh as well. DCL does want to build a 3rd ship (for the West Coast per both sources) but the EuroDollar is holding them back from going out for bids.

dclwdwlover
11-14-2003, 08:07 AM
When we were on the Wonder 2 wks ago one of the CM's - I was sworn to secrecy on who it was I was speaking to:rolleyes: - said DCL is DEFINITELY building a ship & is looking at a west coast sailing. He rambled on something about "in conjunction with Disneyland's 'something year' celebration" but I didn't get everything he was saying. He had overheard me talking to my husb. & interrupted asking "Where did you hear that?????!!!!!" & "Who told you that?" It was like something out of a spy movie. His voice got low & he told us that the CM's have been told & it's "not for public information". It was funny - to us at least. He began rambling on & on with information. At first I thought he was joking, but after several occasions in his presence over the next few days I heard a lot of gossiping from him about other things so I took it that he just can't keep quiet with information he knows. So..............

Horace Horsecollar
11-14-2003, 09:26 AM
For a recent rumors about two new ships, see http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=988 at the Cruise Critic site.

When there's actually a contract for a new ship, it won't be a secret.

The service employees on the ships don't know any more about the true status of any negotiations with shipyards than you or I do.

DCL could reposition the Disney Magic to California in the Summer of 2005 for Disneyland's 50th anniversary, even if there's not a new ship by then. And, given how long it takes to build a cruise ship, there won't be a new DCL ship sailing in Summer 2005 -- even if DCL and a shipyard sign a contract today.

Yes, I think there will be a DCL fleet expansion one of these days. But it's not a "done deal," and there certainly is not a new DCL ship currently under construction.

ThreeCircles
11-14-2003, 09:37 AM
I would maintain that if Disney is in the early stages of contracting for a ship at this time, very few people would know about it.

While Cast Members may be more connected than any of us, they still play small parts in the grand play of the Walt Disney Company. I'm not saying that what the CM told you is incorrect or false or that he was attempting to mislead you, it's just that most people would probably not know about future plans for DCL. Now, if a ship were being built, I'm sure that most CMs along with most of the industry would know about it.

Being a regular at Disney World, I overhear and directly hear a lot of stuff about Disney from CMs. I have learned to disregard almost all of it.

Here is an example:
In July Travis and I were at Disney-MGM having lunch at the Sci-fi Dine in Theater. I overheard a waiter telling another family about the new attractions that were going to be built. (This was prior to the official Disney announcement about the new attractions.) He said that they were adding a "wild west stunt show" to Disney-MGM. Well, as we all know now, this was only partly correct. Disney is in the process of adding a stunt show to Disney-MGM but an auto stunt show rather than a wild west one.

I am sure that there is a lot of speculation as to when Disney will build additional ship(s). And I'm sure that there is more speculation as to where the ships will be stationed and where they will sail. For the former, I'm close to 100% positive that Disney will expand the fleet at some point in the future and I'm sure that the CMs are correct in stating the same. As for the latter, I would have serious doubts that anyone, even some of the top individuals in the Walt Disney Company, would be able to tell you where the ship was going to be stationed, where the ship was going to sail, and when (specifically) it was going to be built. (Let's keep in mind the degree to which Mr. Eisner micro-manages the WDC! I mean, he even designed the uniforms for the Disney Store CMs when the chain first debuted!)

DisneyGator01
11-14-2003, 10:01 AM
With rumors as they are... I would suspect the announcement of a new ship would be more likely in the begining of '05 (figuring they'd make the announcement in conjuction with the Disneyland celebration begining... to begin sailing sometime '06.

Past few years Disney has been pouring money into the parks.. (Mission Space, Pop Century, Philharmagic, Saratoga Springs, redesign of NY Street, New Stunt Show, Everest, Soaring over FL). That's going to keep them pretty busy all this year.


It's going to happen, it's just a matter of when.

HooKooDooKu
11-14-2003, 10:06 AM
Our server in Palo (11/1 cruise - Praeglon sp?) mentioned this and the Cruise Sales guy discussed it with dh as well. DCL does want to build a 3rd ship (for the West Coast per both sources) but the EuroDollar is holding them back from going out for bids.

I think the question came up during our recent cruise during the reception for returning guests. I think is was the captain who said that Disney wants to build the 3rd ship now, but because the ships are built in Italy, the bottom line cost to Disney changes as the value of the Euro changes relative to the dollar. The Euro is currently up (used to be about 1 Euro = 0.90 dollars, but now is about 1 Euro = 1.10 dollars) and he claimed that Disney is waiting on a more favorable exchange rate.

cindy21494
11-14-2003, 10:22 AM
I heard somewhere that Disney wants to eventually have 10 ships going. (Imagine the possibilities!!):) Has anyone else heard this? Also, if The next ship is on the West coast what ports of call do you think they will have? Hawaii maybe?

NYGiantsRule!
11-14-2003, 10:57 AM
Captain John on the Wonder told us at last week's Castaway CLub party that the 3rd ship is still in the planning stages and also the exchange rate issues.

Horace Horsecollar
11-14-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by cindy21494
I heard somewhere that Disney wants to eventually have 10 ships going. (Imagine the possibilities!!):) Has anyone else heard this? Also, if The next ship is on the West coast what ports of call do you think they will have? Hawaii maybe?
The story about eventually wanting 10 ships goes back to when Disney Cruise Line first started. I'm sure there are people within DCL who would still love to see their fleet grow to ten ships. But the real issue is what Disney's corporate executives are willing to fund. Such a fleet expansion would require billions of dollars.

DCL is a niche cruise line. DCL has been very successful with families and Disney fans -- and especially with Disney fan families. But I'm not sure that DCL is really in position to take on Carnival (and its various brands such as HAL and Princess), RCCL (which includes Celebrity), and NCL.

I would be happy to see one or two new ships.

Regarding West Coast itineraries...

Typical West Coast 3- and 4-night cruises go from Los Angeles, Long Beach, or San Diego to Ensenada, Mexico, and a possible day at Catalina Island, California.

Typical West Coast 7-night cruises go from Los Angeles, Long Beach, or San Diego to the Mexican Riviera (Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, Cabo San Lucas).

In the summer, cruise lines reposition most of their West Coast ships (and some of their Caribbean ships) to provide Alaska cruises, usually from Vancouver or Seattle.

Hawaii is unlikely. A foreign-built, foreign registered, internationally-crewed ship like those operated by DCL cannot operate entirely within the Hawaiian Islands, due to the Passenger Services Act of 1886. When cruise lines operate Hawaii cruises, they generally provide very long (such as 12 nights) one-way cruises to/from the West Coast, either starting/ending at a foreign port such as Vancouver or Ensenada, or starting/ending in Southern California and calling on a foreign port such as Ensenada. Or they offer even longer (15-18 nights) roundtrips from the West Coast to Hawaii). NCL is an exception, beacuse they're investing in US-registered ships.

ThreeCircles
11-14-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
The story about eventually wanting 10 ships goes back to when Disney Cruise Line first started. I'm sure there are people within DCL who would still love to see their fleet grow to ten ships. But the real issue is what Disney's corporate executives are willing to fund. Such a fleet expansion would require billions of dollars.



The 10 ship idea was actually given voice by Mr. Eisner. Given the success of the cruise line thus far, I wouldn't doubt that it will reach that nuber at some point.

As far as Disney being a "niche" cruise line, I don't see that at all.

Minnesota
11-14-2003, 01:22 PM
Hawaii might be an option though, may parents went on a 7 day hawaiian cruise, 5 days on different hawaiian isalnds and to fill the "foreign port" requirement they sailed to fanning island which is much closer to hawaii than mexico. Soooo... disney could have foreign registered ships and still do a 7 day cruise in Hawaii. All speculation anyway. :-)
Minnesota

HooKooDooKu
11-14-2003, 01:51 PM
I was excited to see that, based on the questions DCL is currently asking on their on-board survey, Disney is at least thinking of the possiblility of an Alaskan.

As soon as we saw the question, DW and I both said we're on that DCL cruise if it ever happens.


As for DCL ever having 10 ships; it could happen, but I think that it is decades away. If they did have 10 of them, where would they all cruise:
Two Carribien
Two Western
One Hawiian
One Alaskan
Two Mediteranian
where else?

dclwdwlover
11-14-2003, 02:05 PM
I agree, ************ & Horace.

I'm still holding out for a DCL ship for my Alaskan cruise. Hope they decide to do one in the next few years!:teeth:

jlawall
11-14-2003, 06:47 PM
hey DCL, JUST DO IT!!!

DisneyGator01
11-14-2003, 10:58 PM
oh wow, would I LOVE a DCL Alaskan cruise!!! I went there on a HAL cruise and Alaska is truely AMAZING.. I have always wanted to go back and doing it DCL would just be too good to be true. Well, with Disney, one can always dream!!

DMS_cruisers04
11-15-2003, 09:01 AM
Mickey, Minnie and Donald in parkas. Wouldn't that be great?

disneystyle
11-15-2003, 02:32 PM
In August our captain made a great announcement that there was a third ship in the making..........
and it's name is RUMOR.

I thought it was a cute way to keep the questions at bay..

KYCruiseCrazy
11-15-2003, 08:25 PM
http://www.cruiseships.fsnet.co.uk/Ships%20on%20Order.htm
this link will show the most up to date list of cruise ships on order. if and when DCL orders a new ship this is where it will show up at. so save it to your favorites

2disneycruzrs
11-15-2003, 08:43 PM
I sailed recently and had a sales manager at my table. The understanding I received was the master plan is for 13 ships when it's all said and done.

Everyone is correct about the Euro issue. There is a $200 million difference between the budget and the rate of the Euro, and Disney is not going to build until it comes down. The third ship's designs are essentially finished. There are some differences but I believe overall, the ship is similar to what we know now. The main differences are the ship is 40 feet longer, narrower, and there's one more deck (and one just devoted to kids areas). The current ships are at the max standards for passing through the Panama Canal, so the new one is just a tad narrower to keep with this ability.

The likely scenario is that the Magic would be moved to the West Coast since she is a proven ship. The new ship would then either assume the current Magic or Wonder itinerary. No definites have been announced but it is believed that the West Coast swing would be announced in conjunction with celebration plans if possible. They also haven't decided where to base on the West Coast...whether San Diego or LA. They are exploring seasonal itineraries (i.e. Baja in winter, AK in summer).

The current future itinerary questions on the end-of-cruise survey asked your interest level in: California/Baja, Alaska, Bermuda, and Mexican Riviera. They had specific lengths, but I can't locate my notes regarding this right now.

Hope some of this helps.

tstobb
11-15-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by 2disneycruzrs
The main differences are the ship is 40 feet longer, narrower, and there's one more deck (and one just devoted to kids areas). The current ships are at the max standards for passing through the Panama Canal, so the new one is just a tad narrower to keep with this ability.

Actually, they can't go longer (well, 1 foot) and still be "panamax" - 965 feet is the length limit and the 2 current ships are 964 feet long.

trishy
11-16-2003, 03:44 AM
Beachball,

Us west coasters keep updated by using MiceAge (http://www.miceage.com). There have been many "sightings" of Matt visiting different port locations which has been fueling the rumor-mill BIG TIME out here. Interesting stuff. Check there in addition to the Cruise site above.

Horace Horsecollar
11-16-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by 2disneycruzrs
Everyone is correct about the Euro issue.
Yep. It seems to come down to a continuing unwillingness to make the large capital investment for one or two new ships. Disney didn't make the investment back when the exchange rate was more favorable. The current Dollar-to-Euro exchange rate makes the cost even higher. Yet, other cruise lines are ordering new ships from European shipyards.
Originally posted by 2disneycruzrs
The likely scenario is that the Magic would be moved to the West Coast since she is a proven ship. The new ship would then either assume the current Magic or Wonder itinerary. No definites have been announced but it is believed that the West Coast swing would be announced in conjunction with celebration plans if possible. They also haven't decided where to base on the West Coast...whether San Diego or LA. They are exploring seasonal itineraries (i.e. Baja in winter, AK in summer).
There was an interesting thread back in May of this year, "Why won't Disney build another cruise ship? (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=376757)," in which there was discussion about whether or not the current DCL ships would ever be used for Alaska. MarkRG wrote that he heard at a Captain's Roundtable on the Magic, "Neither the Magic or Wonder are under consideration of a West Coast reposition for one plain fact, neither ship is capable of operating in cold weather properly."

I questioned the line that, "neither ship is capable." After all, other cruise lines operate Alaska cruises with ships that have similar configurations to the Magic and Wonder. And summer in Alaska really isn't "cold weather."

But MarkRG really did raise a valid issue. DCL may not want to operate Alaska cruises with a ship that is clearly less suitable for Alaska than the best competing ships, such as RCCL's Radiance of the Seas. The Radiance of Seas has a retractable glass dome over the pool; there is extensive use of glass in public areas so that passengers can enjoy the dramatic views. The Radiance-class ships were designed this way; the current DCL ships were not.

I still think that Alaska cruises on the Magic or Wonder are a possibility. But I also believe that MarkRG accurately reported what he heard at the Captain's Roundtable. If the decision-makers at DCL agree with the command crew of the Magic, then the only way we'll see DCL Alaska cruises would be with a new ship that was designed with Alaska in mind.

saturday97
11-16-2003, 04:57 PM
I'm still holding out for the Magic to reposition to Europe-- that was my dream cruise!:rolleyes:

ivanova
11-24-2003, 02:37 AM
well supposedly hubby found a website that showed the Magical Crusice Company Ltd currently with a ship being built somewhere in Italy ... I'll have to see if he can find it again ... as for when they'd announce, if it is related to DL's 50th celebration, the announcement about the upcoming celebration is tentatively set for Feb 2004 so if they are going to announce one of the ships moving in 2005 to the west coast as part of the celebration, it should be public in Feb 2004 (although a couple of DL managers seem to believe it's gonna happen).

Ellay
11-24-2003, 05:35 AM
Please don't be greedy with your ships, spread the magic - I think we should have two Disney cruise ships in Europe - one to do the western end of the Mediterranean, including the Canaries, Madeira and Casablanca, and one to do eastern Europe - Greece and its islands, Alexandria, etc. - history buff's dream come true. Then, of course, there's always the Baltic - maybe we should have three?;)

polkadotladybug
11-24-2003, 08:02 AM
Well - for what it's worth - when I mentioned to an online friend that I was going on another Disney Cruise - she mentioned that they could actually see them working on another Disney Ship in their port (her hubby is military so I guess they are near the ports) - she lives in Portsmouth, Virginia. THis was in the past week or two that she mentioned that to me.

KevinC
11-24-2003, 08:35 AM
When we took our second cruise on the Magic,12-01, at the Captains party, my brother in law asked about additional ships. Short verson was that they would like a ship to link up to each of the parks..ie Paris & cruise the Med. I believe that's why the Magic was scheduled to cruise the Med but was cancelled. Disneyland the Mexican coast...etc.
I would think it probably is in the works.

christinou
11-24-2003, 09:19 AM
Paris, is quite far away from the med, it really would not be feasible tp do both......

HooKooDooKu
11-24-2003, 09:35 AM
Well - for what it's worth - when I mentioned to an online friend that I was going on another Disney Cruise - she mentioned that they could actually see them working on another Disney Ship in their port (her hubby is military so I guess they are near the ports) - she lives in Portsmouth, Virginia. THis was in the past week or two that she mentioned that to me.

Carol,

Sounds like your friend saw the Disney Magic in Dry-Dock in Newport News, VA ship yards back in September (Portsmouth, Newport News, Norfolk, Virginia Beach, they are all in the same general area).

WIcruizer
11-24-2003, 11:00 AM
First, I don't think two new ships is much of a rumor. It's just a matter of WHEN they will be built, not "if." And the master plan for 10-13 ships (I can't believe a cruise line would ever have 13 ships due to superstition.) is just that...a master plan. Do you realize how many theme parks were once in the master plan???

But what if DCL did have 10 ships?? Some of us have focused on locale, but to me theming is more important. DCL could really cater to families with real young children, and have an even bigger children's area and pool, etc. with menus, activities, excursions designed for families with young children. They could have a ship that is more friendly to teens to and pre-teens....A ship for empty-nesters....A ship with more of a "party" atmosphere with a casino.

Think about it...each ship would have a unique theme and EVERYTHING about the ship would revolve around that. Ports, menus, excursions, activities, layout, shows...you could go on and on if you let your mind wander.

WebmasterPenny
11-24-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by christinou
Paris, is quite far away from the med, it really would not be feasible tp do both......

Actually, it would only be about 36 hours to sail to the south of Spain (and the entrance to the Med, though there is nothing to stop them stopping at Portugal en-route) so no different to any other 'Day at Sea' scenario. Where it could dock in the region though is something else - don't know if there is somewhere suitable or not.

tailfethrs
11-24-2003, 01:09 PM
OK not saying where I've heard it, but yes there is a 3rd ship (Discovery), and it should be done very soon. Most likely working the West Coast for at least part of the year.

ThreeCircles
11-24-2003, 01:22 PM
A quick check at the U.S. Trademark & Patent Office web site doesn't show "Discovery" registered by Disney in relation to the Disney Cruise Line or any other branch of the company.

Both "Magic" and "Wonder" were filed in March of 1996, two years before the ships sailed.

I would think that if a ship were near completion Disney would already have the name trademarked for protection.

(Of course, I suppose they could be filing under a subsidiary name or such.)

Horace Horsecollar
11-24-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by tailfethrs
OK not saying where I've heard it, but yes there is a 3rd ship (Discovery), and it should be done very soon. Most likely working the West Coast for at least part of the year.
Are you saying they're building the ship in secret?

There are only a half dozen or so shipyards that build giant cruise ships. It would be very difficult to build a Panamax sized ship without anyone noticing, and without any word of it leaking to the international business press.

A cruise line can do their planning and negotiations in secret. And there can even be a short lag between the contract signing and the public announcement. But after that, it's a not a secret.

On top of everything else, U.S. corporations have legal obligations to disclose such major capital expenditures to shareholders and to the government.

WIcruizer
11-24-2003, 03:16 PM
Very well said by the last two posters. This thread is an absolute text book study on how rumors become "fact." Everyone is an expert, knows somebody who knows something, has "inside" information, etc.

I'm sure everyone is excited, and new ship(s) will be coming at some point. But PLEASE, whether it's this topic or others be sure to differentiate between opinion and facts. Most people don't see these forums every day, and it's not fair to them when you pass off rumors as facts.

tailfethrs
11-24-2003, 03:47 PM
Sorry I think i just opened my BIG mouth and spoke when I shouldn't have. Trying to remove foot from mouth while watching Stitch.

Lloyd Dobler
11-24-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by tailfethrs
Sorry I think i just opened my BIG mouth and spoke when I shouldn't have. Trying to remove foot from mouth while watching Stitch.

Does this mean that you completely made this up, or is there really a phantom shipyard somewhere that is building this ship, and you shouldn't have said anything.....?

Horace H. pretty much summed up what I wanted to say. To go a bit further, if the ship "should be done very soon," then it would have already been through sea trials. So, assuming that the ship was built without the industry knowing about it, they would have had to do sea trials somewhere. Someone was likely to have noticed an 80,000 ton ship coming or going.

tap & dap
11-24-2003, 06:28 PM
We just got off the pin trading cruise on Thursday and what is being RUMORED on the ship is that Disney has a design done for the new SHIPS and that those designs are being bid by shipyards for production.

Disney will not place the order until the dollar is more favorable due to the exchange rate and the added cost. They feel the announcement MAY come in the first quarter of next year.

The announcement will be that they are building 2 ships for delivery in late 2006. The ships will be larger than the current ships similiar to the Royal Caribbean ships that just entered service, basically taller but still able to transit the Panama Canal.

The Magic will go to California in 2005 as part of the celebration, and the RUMOR is that the ship will sail from Port Canaveral to Long Beach via the Panama Canal and back again. It will alternate this cruise with a Mexican Riviera Cruise. They thought Alaska was most likely not a posibility at the start until the new ships arrived.

As I said this is the current RUMORS on the ship pretty much talked about by all but no one will confirm any of it at this point.

:Pinkbounc :bounce: :Pinkbounc :bounce:

Dean
11-24-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by tailfethrs
OK not saying where I've heard it, but yes there is a 3rd ship (Discovery), and it should be done very soon. Most likely working the West Coast for at least part of the year. Last I heard DCL was entertaining bids but nothing was proceeding due to the currently unfavorable exchange rate. We shall see.

GenieDana
11-24-2003, 10:28 PM
If they are considering a Panamax ship, then the dimensions would be the nearly the same as the current ships:

Panamax length: 964.56 feet, beam: 105.97 feet, draft: (39.5 feet allowable draft) (41.5 feet maximum draft), volume: 100,000 gross tons

Magic & Wonder:
Length: 964
Beam: 106
Draft: 25'

So they must be designing "up."

An interesting link: http://intro.masa-yards.fi/publications/pdf/Seatrade2001.pdf

Although written in 2001, Look at the last page 15 of 15, bottom right. What ship is that?

Horace Horsecollar
11-24-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by GenieDana
So they must be designing "up."
Yes, the rumor is that the blueprints for the next generation of Disney ships are for larger ships, but still "Panamax" sized.

The Magic and Wonder are each either 83,000 gross tons or 85,000 gross tons, depending where you read the specifications. (By the way, the measure "gross tons" is a measure of volume, not weight.)

It's likely that there will be an additional deck, and that there will be staterooms closer to the bow. In this regard, the design would be more like the RCCL Radiance of the Seas or Brilliance of the Seas, which are "Panamax" sized sister ships of 90,090 gross tons each. It will be interesting to see if Disney's maritime architects will be able to add this additional revenue-producing space, while still maintaining the striking good looks and classic lines of the Magic and Wonder.

Just because a ship is "Panamax" sized, there's no guarantee that the ship will ever travel through the Panama Canal -- but it provides the option to reposition the ship to the West Coast, or eventually to sell the ship to an operator that wants that option.

When a cruise line doesn't bother with "Panamax," the result can be much larger ships. RCCL's Navigator Of The Seas and her sister ships are each 142.000 gross tons. Cunard's Queen Mary 2 is 150,000 gross tons.
Originally posted by GenieDana
An interesting link: http://intro.masa-yards.fi/publications/pdf/Seatrade2001.pdf

Although written in 2001, Look at the last page 15 of 15, bottom right. What ship is that?
It looks like a Holland-America ship, but I don't know which one.

GenieDana
11-25-2003, 06:29 AM
Wen't to HAL, and it appears to be the Zuiderdam - Oh well, maybe next time.

jrabbit
11-25-2003, 12:59 PM
What ship is that? Looks like the Magic or Wonder but with only 1 "smoke stack" (the one shown must be the real one) and not enough lifeboats and no "gold" mickey designs on the bow of the ship.

Horace Horsecollar
11-25-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by jrabbit
Looks like the Magic or Wonder but with only 1 "smoke stack" (the one shown must be the real one) and not enough lifeboats and no "gold" mickey designs on the bow of the ship.
It looks a lot more like a Holland America Vista Class cruise ship, such as the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. Holland America ships have dark hulls and single stacks. But the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam were built by the Italian shipyard Fincantieri Cantieri Navali, not by Kvaerner Masa-Yards.

In fact, it's not a Holland America ship after all. And it's absolutely not a current or future Disney ship.

It's the design for the "Conference Ship Sea America," as shown on the Kvaerner Masa-Yards Technology page http://intro.masa-yards.fi/marinekmytpictures.asp

By the way, the link above is worth looking at if you want to see some wild ship designs.

Lloyd Dobler
11-25-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
It looks a lot more like a Holland America Vista Class cruise ship, such as the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam. Holland America ships have dark hulls and single stacks. But the Zuiderdam and Oosterdam were built by the Italian shipyard Fincantieri Cantieri Navali, not by Kvaerner Masa-Yards.


I thought that the Vista-class ships were built by Fincantieri, but was too lazy to look it up earlier. I know that the new Westerdam is being built there and the fourth Vista-class has already been contracted with Fincantieri. It stands to reason that the first two were built there, too.

I have to admit, I enjoy this topic when it shows up every month or so. I can't wait until it actually has some basis in fact. I would say that best-case, there is a third DCL ship sailing before the end of 2006. Given the way Disney spends money (or resists spending it), and the fact that they are only one month into a new leadership team at the cruise line, I wouldn't expect them to announce a contract for a new ship before the middle of next year, making it a close call as to whether it will be in service before the end of 2006.

I'm not sure I buy the "waiting for the dollar to rebound against the euro" argument. While it makes perfect sense on the surface, does a cruise line pay for a ship up front (i.e. "here's half a billion dollars, go build me a ship"), or would the payments be made in installments as work progresses? If so, the current currency exchange rate is really only a consideration for the down payment, unless DCL can speculate on exchange rate fluctuations a year and a half in advance. The current exchange rate hasn't seemed to affect newbuild orders from Carnival Corp. or RCI. Between these two, I count 17 ships currently on order and/or at various stages of construction.

I'll qualify this by saying that this is my opinion only, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries, as well as my somewhat less limited knowledge of how the WD Company does business. I have no inside information, nor do I claim to....

Dean
11-25-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Lloyd Dobler
I'm not sure I buy the "waiting for the dollar to rebound against the euro" argument. While it makes perfect sense on the surface, does a cruise line pay for a ship up front (i.e. "here's half a billion dollars, go build me a ship"), or would the payments be made in installments as work progresses? If so, the current currency exchange rate is really only a consideration for the down payment, unless DCL can speculate on exchange rate fluctuations a year and a half in advance. The current exchange rate hasn't seemed to affect newbuild orders from Carnival Corp. or RCI. Between these two, I count 17 ships currently on order and/or at various stages of construction.

I'll qualify this by saying that this is my opinion only, based on my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries, as well as my somewhat less limited knowledge of how the WD Company does business. I have no inside information, nor do I claim to.... Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.

Horace Horsecollar
11-25-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Dean
Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.
I think Dean was the fifth person in this thread to mention the exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro.

Here's an excerpt from "DISNEY LOOKS TO FRESH IDEAS TO BOOST PARKS, CRUISE LINE," by Todd Pack, Sentinel Staff Writer; Orlando Sentinel; Oct 10, 2003:
<blockquote>Less speculative are plans to grow Disney's cruise business.

The company intends to add a third ship to its fleet, but construction plans are on hold because of an unfavorable exchange rate between the dollar and euro, [Al] Weiss [president of Walt Disney World Resort] said, noting that all four of the shipyards that build cruise ships are in Europe.

"You do some preliminary designs, you go out and get a price for that, and then you can really start the process of looking at the currency exchanges," he said.

"We're in the middle of that process right now, of getting the prices back from the shipyards that would build that. But we won't be able to go forward until you get much closer to parity between the euro and the dollar," Weiss said.

Jay Rasulo, president of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, said the company may expand its cruise business beyond Florida.

"I am very optimistic about the depth of that market for us, not only here domestically, but ultimately internationally, whether we're talking about the Mediterranean or Asia," he said. "California is obviously a cruise market as well."</blockquote>
I agree with Lloyd Dobler. It seems the the exchange rate is the explanation du jour for why Disney hasn't ordered any ships after the Magic and Wonder. Other cruise lines have ordered many ships over the past five years, and there have been several major orders recently. But Disney seems unwilling to make the large capital investment.

If, as Dean speculated, "they contract up front and pay in stages," then Disney could contract now (in Euros) and make more favorable payments if the dollar strengthens.

Lloyd Dobler
11-26-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Dean
Just reporting what was in print, I think it was in the Orlando Centinel and reported on this site. I'd suspect they contract up front and pay in stages.
I'm not at all suggesting that anyone has made this up. I'm aware that it's the company line. I'm just saying I don't think I buy it. Also, Weiss ins't completely correct when he states that all of the shipyards that build cruise ships are in Europe. Mitsubishi in Japan currently building a couple of ships for Princess. I think this is their first foray into the cruise ship building business. That said, I have no idea how the dollar is currently doing vs. the yen. Ingalls yard in Mississippi was in the process of building the first of two ships for AMCV before they went bankrupt, although that required a pretty hefty government subsidy. They hull from the first ship was purchased by NCL and towed to Germany for completion. That ship will be sailing in Hawaii next summer.

zalansky
11-26-2003, 02:18 PM
When we were on the Wonder 09/28, my friend went to get a manicure and the girl in the spa told her that Disney is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there.
Don't shoot the messenger, I am just relaying what my friend was told by a CM.

Lloyd Dobler
11-26-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by zalansky
When we were on the Wonder 09/28, my friend went to get a manicure and the girl in the spa told her that Disney is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there.
Don't shoot the messenger, I am just relaying what my friend was told by a CM.

Not a shot at the messenger, but the spa employees do not even work for the cruise line. They are employees of Steiner's of London, who own the spa contract on most every cruise ship.

Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.

zalansky
11-26-2003, 02:47 PM
Like I said, and politely asked....do not shoot the messenger, I was simply stating what my friend was told.
I did NOT state it to be a fact and I am well aware that spa employees are employed by Steiner.
No need to get in a huff....
Everyone, disregard my post and proceed as if I hadn't posted it, I don't feel like getting any more "corrections" from self proclaimed experts...thanks!

Daria
11-26-2003, 03:28 PM
Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.

While this is tottally true right after RCI announced there building of the Ultra-Voyager, Princess said they were thinking aobut building "The Ultimate Caribbean Princess" that would be around 180000 GRT. Then after this announcement Carnical Corp. said that they are going to make this a two step process and make a around 140,000 Princess ship and around a 180,000 Carnival ship. I read this on the CC boards, but couldn't it find it on there.

I really hope that Dsiney does decide to build another Cruiseship. Hopefully they do build one htat can sail in cooler weather and sail it to Alaska in the Summer (please from Seattle :D ). If they did build a new ship I would hope that they expand the teen area. As it is much smaller than on other cruiseships. I was hoping htat when the Magic went into drydock that they would still keep COmmongorunds. If they did this than there could be two teen areas for different ages (13-15, and 16-18). As some people thought that it was innopropriate for young kids to be around older teens. Just my 2cents :D

Lloyd Dobler
11-26-2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by zalansky
Like I said, and politely asked....do not shoot the messenger, I was simply stating what my friend was told.
I did NOT state it to be a fact and I am well aware that spa employees are employed by Steiner.
No need to get in a huff....
Everyone, disregard my post and proceed as if I hadn't posted it, I don't feel like getting any more "corrections" from self proclaimed experts...thanks!

Like I said, this is not a shot at the messenger. You might be well aware that the spa employees work for Steiner's, others may not. My intent was to point out that spa employees likely have as much inside information as you or I. Please consider my last post an attempted clarification rather than a correction....

As for my being a self-proclaimed expert, if you read my earlier post on this thread you see that I alluded to "my admittedly limited knowledge of the shipbuilding and cruise industries." I would argue that I am a self-proclaimed novice.

SueEllen
11-26-2003, 08:13 PM
Let's remember to keep this nice. I would hate to see the thread have to be closed.

Sue Ellen

ThreeCircles
11-26-2003, 08:23 PM
Cunard is in the process of building the biggest cruise ship out there, the Queen Mary 2. It will be the biggest until RCI's "ultra-Voyager" is built, scheduled for 2006. The ultra-Voyager ship will be 15% bigger than the current Voyager class, at 160,000 GRT, with the capacity for 3600 passengers. They should start building this one next year.



As the wise Jgalecpa has often stated, it's not the size that matters.

Unless, of course, one is fishing... :teeth:

jgalecpa
11-27-2003, 01:39 PM
As the wise Jgalecpa has often stated, it's not the size that matters.


Ah, Yes Grasshopper.

You have learned wisely.

ThreeCircles
11-28-2003, 03:49 PM
This was posted on the Walt Disney World News & Rumors page of <a href="http://www.screamscape.com/html/walt_disney_world.html">Screamscape</a> on 11/24/03:

The latest info from the SpyNet claim that Disney may already be putting the plans for a 3rd ship in motion. If the rumors are true the craft has already been designed and they are currently searching bidding it out to the shipyards to get the best price. Once complete, the third ship is expected to be even larger than the previous two and may be used initially for a new 10 day cruise.

Given the demand for the 10-day holiday cruise next year it would seem that this could be a possibility. That way, the Disney Magic could continue the 7-day itineraries, the Wonder could continue the 3/4 day, and the new ship could be used for a new 10-day itinerary.

tecdavidt
11-28-2003, 05:37 PM
I always like to read these threads. I do know this, when DCL decides to build another ship it won't be a secret since the other two were not a secret. I always check up on the cruise news on Cruisecritic and that was when I read they decided to go out for bids and designs but nothing more than that.

I suspect it is the exchange rate and the fact that Euro Disney is not doing well financially for Disney corp. Then again maybe Euro Disney has no effect. Who knows. I do hope they add a ship someday for the west coast. It makes economic sense to have a ship that will be linked to Disney Land. I would think DCL would have no problem filling two ships for the west coast and two ships for the east coast.

Kathy

hawkrn
11-28-2003, 10:06 PM
Kathy, "hi" from one Disney Addict in Iowa (Bettendorf) to another!

Horace Horsecollar
11-29-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by ************
This was posted on the Walt Disney World News & Rumors page of <a href="http://www.screamscape.com/html/walt_disney_world.html">Screamscape</a> on 11/24/03:

The latest info from the SpyNet claim that Disney may already be putting the plans for a 3rd ship in motion. If the rumors are true the craft has already been designed and they are currently searching bidding it out to the shipyards to get the best price. Once complete, the third ship is expected to be even larger than the previous two and may be used initially for a new 10 day cruise.

Given the demand for the 10-day holiday cruise next year it would seem that this could be a possibility. That way, the Disney Magic could continue the 7-day itineraries, the Wonder could continue the 3/4 day, and the new ship could be used for a new 10-day itinerary.
Thanks for posting the rumor!

Allow me to offer a few thoughts about the idea of regularly scheduled 10-night Disney cruises...

For a schedule of 10-night cruises to work, the 10-night cruises would have to alternate with 11-night or 4-night cruises. That way, the 10-night cruise would always leave on the same day of the week (possibly Friday), and the alternating cruises would always leave on the same day (possibly Monday) -- two days when the TCL terminal is not already in use. And these cruises could call on Castaway Cay on days when there's not already another ship there. On the other hand, a schedule of back-to-back 10-night cruises would quickly run into scheduling conflicts at the terminal and Castaway Cay.

Personally, I don't think that 10-night cruises and DCL are a good match. Occasional 10-night cruises, like the 2004 holiday cruise, are a great idea. But, in general, 10-night cruises on other lines tend not to attract the family market that is the core of DCL's customer base. It's often hard for families to get away for more than a week, especially during the school year, when breaks are usually only one week long.

I'm more willing to believe the rumors that if there's just one new ship, it will replace the Magic, and the Magic will go to the West Coast for all-year cruises to Mexico out of a harbor near Disneyland, such as Long Beach. And if there are two new ships, the fourth ship will be optimized for Alaska, possibly doing Alaska cruises during the warm months, Caribbean cruises the rest of the year, with two Panama Canal repositioning cruises each year.

Again, ************, thanks for posting.

ThreeCircles
11-29-2003, 11:19 AM
Good points about the possibility of 10-day cruises. It is probably true that many people would be reluctant or unable to secure more than a week away from work or school to commit to a 10-day vacation. And scheduling the terminal and Castaway Cay would seem to pose a problem as well.

With that said, I think a third ship could easily work a new 7-day cruise out of Port Canaveral. I know that many suggest that a third ship will either be stationed on the West coast or one of the existing ships will be moved to the West coast, but I just don't see that in the future for DCL.

With the popularity of DCL as it now stands, it would make little sense for them to expand to the West. They are filling the ships easily, have invested heavily in Castaway Cay and the DCL terminal, and have popular Caribbean itineraries. I don't see DCL, or I should say the Walt Disney Company (as that's who will really make the decision) giving up those benefits and others to reposition a ship. Even with the 50th Anniversary of the Disneyland Resort, I can't see it happening. Especially if they will just have the two ships in 2005, as it seems they will.

Just my humble opinion! :)

Horace Horsecollar
11-29-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by ************
With the popularity of DCL as it now stands, it would make little sense for them to expand to the West. They are filling the ships easily, have invested heavily in Castaway Cay and the DCL terminal, and have popular Caribbean itineraries.
Yes, Castaway Cay and the DCL terminal are each only used three pays per week., and they're valuable DCL assets. So, I could also see another ship operating from Port Canaveral.

By offering a new ship with a new "pesonaility" -- different dining rooms, different clubs, different decor -- and new 7-night itineraries, DCL could attract return guests and new guests. For example, consider a new Western itinerary including some of the following ports:
-- Mahahual on Costa Maya, Mexico
-- Isla Roatan, Honduras
-- Belize City, Belize

I'd like to see seven different dining rooms on the new, larger ship, so you and your servers rotate to a different dining room each night.

Now, having said that, I wouldn't write off the West Coast so quickly. In fact, I believe the rumor that the Magic will spend part of 2005 in California, even if DCL doesn't go ahead with a fleet expansion. It will allow DCL to "test the waters." It will increase awareness of DCL by the people of the most populous state. And will allow DCL to sell staterooms at top dollar through a "6 months only and then the opportunity will be gone forever" marketing campaign. (And then a DCL ship can return to California a year or two later "due to overwhelming demand.")