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View Full Version : More Tinkering with Adventureland Hours.


DisneyKidds
10-28-2003, 03:48 PM
Not sure if this has been covered already, but from Deb Wills comes this...................
For the next several weeks, up to November 22, and then resuming November 30, the following schedule applies:

Sunday, Thursday, and Saturday: Opening 9 a.m. (includes Pirates
of the Caribbean and The Magic Carpets of Aladdin, but not
Jungle Cruise)

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday: Opening 10 a.m.

For Thanksgiving Week (November 23 - 29): Opening 9 a.m. every
day (includes Pirates of the Caribbean, The Magic Carpets of
Aladdin, and Jungle Cruise)
Makes you wonder even more how much they can be saving with a later opening for some things on some days.

I guess the biggest savings must be coming from opening the Jungle Cruise later.

grinningghost
10-28-2003, 04:08 PM
I still say they're shooting themselves in the foot by doing all this. All it does is shout to the guests "Hey, we're a financial wreck and we're falling apart!" - Not very good for guest morale. Eventually people are going to latch on to all the negativity and wonder if Disney is really all it's cracked up to be.

KNWVIKING
10-28-2003, 05:44 PM
I wish somebody who knew the reasoning behind this would post an answer here for us to read. this just makes no sense at all. the savings are minimal- and quite honestly disney is not a financial wreck, at least no where near the point where these savings would make a difference. Do they have a manpower shortage and are hesitant to start hiring till they're sure a recovery is truely in progres ? Are they robbing manpower in Adventureland to keep something open longer ?

grinningghost
10-28-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
I wish somebody who knew the reasoning behind this would post an answer here for us to read. this just makes no sense at all. the savings are minimal- and quite honestly disney is not a financial wreck, at least no where near the point where these savings would make a difference. Do they have a manpower shortage and are hesitant to start hiring till they're sure a recovery is truely in progres ? Are they robbing manpower in Adventureland to keep something open longer ?

Well said.:D Someone in the know, please throw us a bone.;)

Peter Pirate
10-28-2003, 06:46 PM
I agree viking, I can usually understand their reasoning for doing things, even if I totally disagree. But with this I can't phathom what that reasoning is...pirate:

Planogirl
10-28-2003, 11:32 PM
Don't forget that the Tiki Birds opens sometime too. Geesh, one needs a guide just to figure out Adventureland nowadays. I assume that the treehouse is still closed?

eeyore0062
10-29-2003, 11:18 AM
Many parks employ the policy of opening some sections before others. They say it is to control crowd flow.

Busch Gardens Williamsburg has done this for years. England, Scotland, Ireland and France open at 10 am, and Germany and Italy open at 11 am.

It hasn't hurt BG-W in anyway, and I don't see that it is going to hurt MK, either.

grinningghost
10-29-2003, 05:08 PM
I'm sure it doesn't "hurt" to open certain sections at certain times, but here's my take anyway - way back when, Walt Disney World wasn't just called the Vacation Kingdom of the World for nothing. Everything there was over the top. Everything. If you went there, you got everything you could possibly imagine and way more. It was like heaven. Now it seems it's happy just being another theme park. Nothing special. Just another one.

That's sad.:(

Peter Pirate
10-29-2003, 05:13 PM
grinningghost, while I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment of your post I think your oversimplification of whats going on with WDW (or Disney in general) makes your opinion appear more radical that (I think) it really is...I mean you don't seriously contend that Disney is only striving to be six flags do you? Please tell me it was literary license...pirate:

DVC-Landbaron
10-29-2003, 05:15 PM
chip... chip... chip...





All in all it's just another.............:(

Peter Pirate
10-29-2003, 05:17 PM
Go Cubs!pirate:

Planogirl
10-29-2003, 05:38 PM
Hey LandBaron! I was wondering when you would weigh in.

Why do we always deal with such absolutes? I don't think that WDW is in danger of being another Six Flags. But they may be dropping down to the Busch Gardens or even (dare I say it?) Universal levels. These parks are also excellent in their own way but not quite to the level of the Disney parks. They just appear to be creeping steadily closer especially Universal.

Six Flags is simply a place to ride coasters, nothing more.

raidermatt
10-29-2003, 08:06 PM
Why do we always deal with such absolutes? I don't think that WDW is in danger of being another Six Flags. But they may be dropping down to the Busch Gardens or even (dare I say it?) Universal levels.
Details, details... Regardless of how fast the gap is closing and by how much, the problem is that its closing, and at least part of the reason is Disney is letting it do so.

I think we all get the concept behind controlling crowd flow, but one of Disney's differentiating attributes was they didn't do a lot of this, and instead emphasized letting guests choose where to go and when. The Adventureland stuff is moving in the direction of "everyone else", and in this case, for apparently a miniscule benefit.

I guess its just a case of "we can save a small amount at (we believe) no cost to us, so let's do it."

Not uncommon reasoning for many companies.

Peter Pirate
10-29-2003, 08:58 PM
details, details...Did we think no competitor was EVER going to close the gap on Disney going forward? That's kind of like believing that we humans are the only intelligent life form to infinity and beyond, isn't it? Further, aside from a few folks around here speaking up occasionally, I really do not think USF has had any impact on doings at WDW. It's kind of funny how lately with all of the new things going on at WDW we've heard nothing from or about USF, even with their hugely successful Halloween event. USF is a great park offering great entertainment but it in no way = WDW. The halloween event isn't even being advertised as much as in years gone by...Could it be they see no point in going up against Mission Space?

WDW has shown great strides forward as of late yet I don't see any relenting of the car threepers in their quest to call for a return to past greatness. Spectacular new rides and attractions are opening, October hours have proved that nothing is written in concrete, Disney hotel rooms are again becoming hard to get and yet some tinkering with Adventurland hours somehow signals the end is near.

Look, I don't agree with this tinkering as I said, because I seriously don't see any point, but taken in the big picture it's nothing but someone trying to score points with his "genius"...He probably won't be there long.

As for worrying about Disney, I think the DLR deserves way more of our concern than WDW. Lets hope Mr. Cruise Ship Leader can turn that ship around...And lets hope some WDW "higher up" see's the folly of the Adventureland tinkering and stops the nonsense before Landbaron has a heart attack...I disagree with him and he's NEVER right, but I'd hate to have something happen to him...pirate:

pheneix
10-29-2003, 09:24 PM
>>>It's kind of funny how lately with all of the new things going on at WDW we've heard nothing from or about USF, even with their hugely successful Halloween event.<<<

That's mostly because their playbook is currently being re-written in advance of the NBC buyout. By the time Mummy opens next year Universal's plans for the future should be clear.

One thing that is becoming apparent though is that the kinds of projects Universal Creative is pursuing are WILDLY different than the direction Disney is headed in. I'd also say that I would much rather see Disney head into the uncharted territory like Universal Creative has rather than doing going with the "safe" attractions like Soarin' and the Stunt Show.

>>>The halloween event isn't even being advertised as much as in years gone by...Could it be they see no point in going up against Mission Space?<<<

Eh... It's more like Universal seeing no point in advertising an event that consistently brings in tens of thousands of people every night.

Peter Pirate
10-29-2003, 10:10 PM
pheneix, I kind of thought I'd draw you out.:)

Anyway, I'm happy you're so confident in a company like NBC being willing to do things right...A company with no history in the theme park realm and a company that was not too enthusiatic about the theme park portion of the purchase (a familiar refrain it seems)...Would you mind if we referred to you as having rose colored glasses? note: this was simply a joke and I'm quite sure you can take a joke which is why I dared post it...:wave:

But as for uncharted territory...Do you really consider M:S charted territory? Further, it is a good thing for USF to be going a different direction from Disney...This is where their market, their demographic and their future lies. They could never win a head to head match (and not because they couldn't offer quality) because the field is slanted way too far in Disney's favor. Thus it IS a brilliant move to extend to areas that Disney's traditional 'family friendly' theme could never dare tread.

Lastly, the Halloween event...You mean to say a little advertising couldn't generate even larger crowds? Come on. They're just as greedy as the next guy and if they thougt more advertising would help they'd be doing it...But they aren't.

To the subject at hand, I still don't think that this bad decision regarding Adventureland signals anything more than a bad decision at some management level. I was thinking scoop may have some insight in this area but it seems he must be grading papers lately...pirate:

raidermatt
10-30-2003, 01:08 PM
Pete, Pete, Pete...

...Did we think no competitor was EVER going to close the gap on Disney going forward? Of course not. That's why my statement included the "and Disney is letting it do so (the gap close)". I included that because I realize that when something works, others will copy it, and it will be tough to maintain such a large gap. But one of Disney's problems is they are making decisions that result in the gap shrinking more than it otherwise would have.

I'm not going to debate how big the gap is or isn't. I'm just saying that however large one thinks that gap to be, its getting smaller and part of the reason is not the competition but Disney itself.

WDW has shown great strides forward as of late yet I don't see any relenting of the car threepers in their quest to call for a return to past greatness. Why would one cease to call for a return to something when it hasn't returned? (Note, the return being called for is a return to a certain strategic direction, not a return to every process being done as it was 40 years ago. So please, no posts about "times change so Disney has to change with it". (that wasn't directed at you Pete... just a general comment))

Yes, there are some new attractions opening, some getting more praise than others, and some in the works that are not far enough along to really be "graded".

But this is not due to any kind of change in direction. Its mainly due to Disney's development of new parks being at a lower level than in recent years, so capital is available for the existing parks while still allowing for overall capital expenditures to decrease.

The direction is still to invest as little overall as possible, and further cuts to capital spending are being touted.

There are always ebbs and flows... bumps in the good times, successes in the bad... In Disney's case, the direction/philosophy has not changed, and therefore the long term outlook has not changed.

kilarney
10-30-2003, 01:09 PM
Think of the family that gets to the park at opening looking forward to riding a ride in Adventureland. They are going to be upset.... and there will be many of those families.
The net effect is many more upset people than happy ones.
I can understand Toontown opening later since it is in its own area and is a much more targeted area, but Adventureland IS the Magic Kingdom and vice versa. IMHO Disney has gone too far with this one.
As a comparison, I don't like the fact that the World Showcase opens later at EPCOT, but at least EPCOT has two distinct areas that are arguably two separate parks.

pheneix
10-30-2003, 07:14 PM
>>>A company with no history in the theme park realm and a company that was not too enthusiatic about the theme park portion of the purchase (a familiar refrain it seems)...<<<

But they will demand results from their investment, and not just from a performance POV either.

>>>But as for uncharted territory...Do you really consider M:S charted territory?<<<

Does it capture the imagination and send it sailing into the unknown? Is it a masterpiece of storytelling like Pirates of the Carribean or the upcoming Revenge of the Mummy? Does it even *attempt* to pretend to be something other than a flight simulator?

>>>You mean to say a little advertising couldn't generate even larger crowds?<<<

Pirate, when IOA is filled to capacity it is filled to capacity, and advertising more would be a waste of money.

OTH, they still carpet bombed the Central Florida market with TV and radio ads, just as they do every year.

Peter Pirate
10-30-2003, 08:59 PM
What could possibly lead you to believe that NBC would be interested in anything beyond dollars and cents from the theme park division? What history is there to make you believe this?

Does it capture the imagination and send it sailing into the unknown? Is it a masterpiece of storytelling like Pirates of the Carribean or the upcoming Revenge of the Mummy? Does it even pretend to be something other than a flight simulator?
Yes. Yes. What makes you dare to assume that an unfinished attraction at IOA will meet this criteria? One solid hit with Spiderman? ... Oh, and yes...

Filled to capacity? Well, this isn't what I was told by friends who were there (on two seperate nights) earlier this month, but if you say so...

Lastly, they bombarded the local media, eh? Well, again I think this pretty much proves the market USF is really targeting is the local market. Good strategy? I don't know, there's barely over a million people locally, right?pirate:

pheneix
10-30-2003, 10:20 PM
>>>What could possibly lead you to believe that NBC would be interested in anything beyond dollars and cents from the theme park division?<<<

The fact that their broadcast network is the only one even remotely tolerable to watch these days for beginners (CSI not withstanding). Then there's the fact that GE/NBC are FAR more interested in seeing that the money they put into their entertainment properties actually impacts the guest experience rather than going to- um, "other" expenses.

>>>What makes you dare to assume that an unfinished attraction at IOA will meet this criteria?<<<

Everyone on this project isn't making the "excuses" we see at Disney these days. No one over there has to claim "it will service our market well" or "it's a nice ride that the market place is just not ready for." They have created what is absolutely the most kick-*** ride ever concieved in the theme park industry. They are VERY proud of their work, and that is something that has been absent from Disney for quite a while.

See this website for more information:

http://themeparks.about.com/cs/universalparks/a/mummypre.htm

>>>Filled to capacity? Well, this isn't what I was told by friends who were there (on two seperate nights) earlier this month, but if you say so...<<<

Let's see, three Saturdays in a row sold out (over 40k at least, I think the max capacity fluctuated some this year since more of the soundstage area from the Studios was annexed into the event), many, many other days that were well over the criteria of a "non-peak night" (which means they were oversold past what the park could handle and thus hours of operation were adjusted).

>>>I think this pretty much proves the market USF is really targeting is the local market. Good strategy?<<<

They're having a record year this year, if that's what you mean.

eeyore0062
10-31-2003, 01:52 AM
When we have gone to MK, no matter what time of year, and headed to Adventureland, it was a ghost town. Everyone usually heads to Fantasyland, Tomorrowland or Frontierland... Adventureland doesn't even start to get busy until after 10 am, and even then, there was less than a 10 minute wait for Pirates of the Carribbean, Jungle Cruise, or Aladdin.

Perhaps that is the reason they decided they could wait and open it at 10? Makes sense to me!

Peter Pirate
10-31-2003, 08:31 AM
Have you seen the TV race this year? All networks are floundering in a virtual dead heat. Furthermore NBC offers nothing that I personally watch although I will admit that '24' on Fox is my real only can't miss show...GE/NBC are FAR more interested in seeing that the money they put into their entertainment properties actually impact the guests experience...
Again, from what can you possibly base this utopian philosophy on? My GE refrigerator is nice, but it gives me nothing more than a Whirlpool. NBC is no different that ABC or CBS or Fox...They all offer 95% crap and 5% of stuff that's not so crappy. What has GE/NBC done to make you think they care? Jack Welch is gone and their front office has been floundering ever since. This purchase may become a white elephant to a once proud company.

As for the new kick butt ride, how do you know? Have you been on it? Further, I've heard NO EXCUSES for 'M:S', only platitudes and gushing and unlike the new ride at IOA, people HAVE actually ridden it.

The success of the Halloween event pretty much speaks for itself, but there is always room for more folks and despite its success it is a pretty low-brow event...Have they introduced "flashing" for beads at their Mardi Gras event yet? It'll be coming soon, I'd guess.;)

They're having a record year, if thats what you mean. Yeah, coming up from the bottom is infinately easier than holding on to the top. Will a USF finally break the top five in attendance this year?