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Sarangel
09-11-2003, 09:45 PM
[steps up onto soapbox]

OK, color me officially ticked off! One of the inserts in the new Sleeping Beauty DVD says that Disney will release 4 new 2-Disc Special Edition DVDs in 2004: Pocohontas, Alice in Wonderland, Mary Poppins, and Lilo & Stitch.

The reason I'm irritated by this move is that I waited six or eight months before I bought Lilo & Stitch because Disney refused to say whether they would release a special edition DVD (the played 4 months of "yes, we will," "no, we won't" before deciding not to) and now they've changed their minds. :(

I don't mind a dual release, provided the studio lets its fans know in advance (see Lord of the Rings), but I feel that this business of saying they won't release a 2-disc set and then changing their mind is Disney's way of trying to get yet another buck out of the consumer's pocket, and I really resent it.

[steps down off of soapbox]

Sarangel

SnackyStacky
09-11-2003, 09:56 PM
I'm with you Sarangel! I HATE it when they do that.

Hopefully, they'll at least have the "upgrade" rebate like they did with Sleeping Beauty and Roger Rabbit.

wdwguide
09-11-2003, 10:39 PM
Double-dipping is extremely popular with the movie studios right now. Look at all the different editions for Terminator 2 or the American Pie movies... it's terrible.
What's even worse with Disney is that they tend to waste valuable space on their non-Platinum DVDs with foolscreen versions of the movie that would be much better utilized by additional bonus features. Foolscreen is only justified for people with very small TVs, and on those the benefits of DVDs don't really make a difference anyway, so why not drop the butchered versions altogether? If people really don't like the "black bars" they can just use the zoom function on their DVD players.

I am looking forward to the Mary Poppins SE though. One of my all-time favorite movies :)

Sarangel
09-11-2003, 11:54 PM
I think my main peeve is that they don't let people choose which edition to buy...

Anyway, in other DVD news:Just announced from Buena Vista Home Entertainment is a December 2nd street date for Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl. The second biggest hit of the year, this two-disc set comes complete with a 2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen transfer and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround track, three audio commentaries with director Gore Verbinski and star Johnny Depp, producer Jerry Bruckheimer and stars Keira Knightley and Jack Davenport, and writers Stuart Beattie, Ted Elliot & Terry Rossio and Jay Wolpert, the "An Epic At Sea: The Making of Pirates of the Caribbean" documentary, deleted scenes,a "Moonlight" scene progression, blooper reel, "Below Deck: An Interactive History Of Pirates" notes and a still gallery . Retail is $29.95.From my favorite DVD site: dvdfile.com

Sarangel

d-r
09-12-2003, 09:12 AM
Hi Sarah.

I guess you may remember me ranting about this on here several times - I got burned by Tarzan, I got burned by A Bug's Life - both of which had a SE come out after the reguar release. I said I wouldn't get burned again. Let's see, dinosaur, eng, toy story, fantasia, they had a SE that came out with the original at the same time. Batb, snow white, sleeping beauty was only the special edition 2-disc. Peter pan and dumbo were SE's but only one disc, so who knows what will happen.

I haven't bought 3 dvds - pinochio, pocohontas and hercules because the release was so bare bones (and in the case of P and H not anthropomorphic) that I figured eventually they would be released again. So I feel that I came out right with Pocohontas.

This will be our fourth version of Mary Poppins on some form of media. I have never opened my Alice in Wonderland dvd; when I heard a month or so ago that the Alice SE would be coming out, I swore an oath that I WOULD be taking this one back to the disney store and trading it in. And by god I will.

Like you, Lilo and Stitch is the one that especially bugs me because I asked up and down if there would be a 2-disc. All the disney store cast thought that there would ONLY be a 2-disc before it came out. Anyway, we decided at the time to go ahead and buy the L&S dvd, and if a SE came out later it wasn't that much to have spent on it. You will remember the threads on here about that release.

Ultimately though, I am really seeing the positive side of these releases. I really am. It disproves the claim from jhm that there will be no more 2-disc sets. Coupled with the upcoming live action 2-dvds of the witch mt's and apple dumpling gang, and the treasures coming out at the end of the year, and the rumor of the 2-disc darby o'gill for next year, well, I think things are going better for us at bvhe than it seemed a few months ago.

Also, I don't get the deal with packaging. They can't afford inserts for some dvds, but sleeping beauty has a card board outer sleeve with the EXACT same artwork as the dvd cover, front and back. What is the point with that?

One other thing abour releases, I heard a rumor that they are going to package together rescuers and rescuers down under for a special price. So if you don't have those you might want to wait.

Roger Rabbit didn't really count because the first release was through Anchor Bay; I didn't buy that early one because I figured there would be a later release. If you did buy it, hey, you had it for a couple of years before it came out again.

WDWGUIDE, I am going to take a different opinion than yours. I perfer wide of course, but some people really like full screen. I don't know why, but they do. What I don't like is when a company releases two versions - a separate wide screen and full screen version. I think that is bad when they could just put one on one side of the disc and the other on the other. What happens is, a place like blockbuster only orders one version, and you end up with being able to rent only the full screen version of some films (well that has happened here at our block buster, not sure if that is everywhere). I would rather them put both versions in at the same price rather than selling each one as different versions.

What I am still not happy about with bvhe is the discs still are funky in terms of putting them in and starting them up - or programming them to start up. At least you can fast forward through previews and stuff now, but it still is a pain.

I wish that they would find a plan and stick with it for the sake of us collectors.

oh shoot, one more thing

three audio commentaries with director Gore Verbinski and star Johnny Depp, producer Jerry Bruckheimer and stars Keira Knightley and Jack Davenport, and writers Stuart Beattie, Ted Elliot & Terry Rossio and Jay Wolpert, the "An Epic At Sea: The Making of Pirates of the Caribbean" documentary, deleted scenes,a "Moonlight" scene progression, blooper reel, "Below Deck: An Interactive History Of Pirates" notes and a still gallery

I know it is silly, but I was sort of hoping they would put in the Old world of Disney show from the opening of POTC, where the pirates come in on the Columbia and break down the door. Shoot.

WDWHound
09-12-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by d-r
I know it is silly, but I was sort of hoping they would put in the Old world of Disney show from the opening of POTC, where the pirates come in on the Columbia and break down the door. Shoot. You probably already know this, but that show is on the Disneyland dvds that came out with the first Disney Treasures 2 years ago.

wdwguide
09-12-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by d-r

WDWGUIDE, I am going to take a different opinion than yours. I perfer wide of course, but some people really like full screen. I don't know why, but they do. What I don't like is when a company releases two versions - a separate wide screen and full screen version. I think that is bad when they could just put one on one side of the disc and the other on the other. What happens is, a place like blockbuster only orders one version, and you end up with being able to rent only the full screen version of some films (well that has happened here at our block buster, not sure if that is everywhere). I would rather them put both versions in at the same price rather than selling each one as different versions.

The reason many people prefer the latter is because they are poorly educated as that what actually happens in the process of "modifying the film to fit their TV". Thankfully, many DVDs are starting to include widescreen to fullscreen comparisons, which might help change that. Another problem that I see is that, within just a couple of years, the vast majority of TV sets sold will be widescreen HDTVs. Those people are going to be extremely upset when all of the sudden they have black bars bigger than they ever saw before on the side of the movie.
Another reason why I dislike foolscreen and OAR in the same DVD set is that it increases the price of the set, because it is obviously much cheaper to just digitize a film than it is to edit it to 4:3 and, as for your suggestion of a dual-sided DVD, those are also more expensive to press and very prone to getting scratched and fingerprints on them.

d-r
09-12-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by WDWHound
You probably already know this, but that show is on the Disneyland dvds that came out with the first Disney Treasures 2 years ago.

Hi WDWHound. Unless it is on there as some sort of secret easter egg thing, the one that I am thinking about that would be great for inclusion on the potc dvd is not on the treasures disc. I think you are probably thinking of the 10th anniversary show from 1965. The scene that I think you are thinking of is when Walt is showing the disneyland ambassader the models for POTC, and previewing what it will be like. He sort of gives her a walk through in the models. The one that I am thinking of is from a press event at the opening of the attraction itself. The press, and cast members dressed as pirates, arrive on the Columbia. There is a big show in New Orleans square, and the pirates use a battering ram to knock in the door on the attraction, then we are treated to a ride through of the attraction - they are still using that ride through footage in the vacation videos of today! I guess that this one had to have aired after Walt passed, so I guess that it was probably on NBC on world of color. The new attractions that are showcased on the 10th anniversary show that is on the treasures dvd are the matterhorn, monorail, and submarines. There is the preview of pirates, and a more rough draft preview of haunted mansion and rogues gallery.

Actually, there are enough "Disneyland" Disneyland shows to make another treasure, like Holiday in Disneyland, Disneyland through the seasons, Disneyland '61, the pirates opening, Disneyland goes to the World's Fair, the haunted mansion opening with the osmond brothers, the opening of small world, and I think I remember at least a partial episode about the enchanted tiki room - I know I remember footage of Jose talking, but that might be from the 10th anniversary. There is enough material for a wdw one, too, with the epcot grand opening, the 70s mousekateers in disney world, the preview shows from the 80s, the christmas specials, etc. Sadly, the sales were slow on the first disneyland dvd so I doubt we will see those - that is why I was hoping that the Pirates one might end up on the POTC dvd. My tapes of those shows are getting threadbare.

WDWGUide. Please do not misunderstand me. I am not arguing for full screen releases. I am saying that there are a LOT of people who right now want to buy full screen movies. That's just the truth. I am not saying that this is a good idea, and I am not one of them. I'm saying that they do, and I prefer it for them to put both versions on a single release rather than having a separate release for the two versions (like Harry Potter). If you follow what you are saying, people who bought those full frame versions will have to buy the other version when and if they go wide screen. There have been a lot of dvds that have the different versions on each side, this is one way to do this. Or put on separate discs with different supplementals on each disc. I think that is a good strategy, I see it as two for one. Also, at the current time, they are going to make a 4:3 pan and scan anyway for pay per view, hbo, etc. so the cost of making that isn't on the dvd. I hear what you are saying about finger printing two sided discs. We are in a transition time - remember, I really believe it is true that the vast majority or people buying disney dvds are buying them to throw in for the kids, so they are happy with full frame; the number of animation fans who are buying them is much less, and I am glad that they are throwing us some bones with the treasures, special editions, etc., I 've begun to see them as bonuses.

But then by the time everyone gets on to hdtv there will be high def. dvds and we will find ourselves buying new versions anyway. We'll be complaining that this is the 5th or 6th version of Mary Poppins that we own. Some younger families will be buying it for the first time so they will be glad.

WDWHound
09-12-2003, 11:47 AM
We are thinking of the same show, but I might be remembering an episode I taped. I remember noticing that in the scene where the priates ram the doors, the ramps up to what would eventually become the art gallary were not yet built (were they added when the gallary opened around 1990?)

I could have sworn it was on the Disneyland DVD, but I could be mistaken. I recorded alot of the Disneyland espisodes which dealt with the park off of Vault Disney before it was taken off the air, so I might be confused. If it is on the DVDs, it is not and easter egg (to the best of my knowledge, there are no easter eggs on these DVDs). I will check tonight.

wdwguide
09-12-2003, 11:51 AM
I guess I kinda defeated my own argument there... lol.

d-r
09-12-2003, 12:13 PM
wdwhound if you have a copy of that I'll try to find something to trade a copy of with you, that one was on my tape that got ate up (and the 70s mmc at wdw, too).

wdwguide lol, the thing is we both pretty much agree on it -

DR

WDWHound
09-12-2003, 12:26 PM
Accidental post, please ignore.

SnackyStacky
09-12-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by wdwguide
The reason many people prefer the latter is because they are poorly educated as that what actually happens in the process of "modifying the film to fit their TV".

I prefer the latter, and am fully aware of what goes on in the modification process, and have been for some time.

Another problem that I see is that, within just a couple of years, the vast majority of TV sets sold will be widescreen HDTVs.

Perhaps that's true, but in the meantime, my TV is 27 inches. I bought Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in the widescreen format. It was so tiny, I may as well have been playing the fullscreen on a 9 inch kitchen counter top TV. It was so tiny, I had to go buy the fullscreen version and gave the widescreen version to my parents.

Another reason why I dislike foolscreen and OAR in the same DVD set is that it increases the price of the set, because it is obviously much cheaper to just digitize a film than it is to edit it to 4:3 and, as for your suggestion of a dual-sided DVD, those are also more expensive to press and very prone to getting scratched and fingerprints on them.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that "foolscreen" is simply some clever pun you've devised that in NO way means that anyone that prefers the fullscreen version is a fool.

However, if your argument stand that the vast majority of TVs that will be sold are to be widescreen HDTV, then what's to happen with all of the fullscreen edition DVDs that are out there? The ones that don't have a double edition. I'm sure there's got to be 1 or 2 in your DVD collection. Wouldn't it be much easier if they had given both full and widescreen formats on the disc when the day comes that widescreen HDTV replaces the current standard?

My point is that not everybody's preferences are your own, and that you can't dismiss those that differ from yours as ignorance. I said it once, I'll say it again: I'm not ignorant of the process, and I still prefer the full screen.

wdwguide
09-12-2003, 01:40 PM
The "foolscreen" designation is not mine, it's pretty popular on DVDtalk on other discussion forums. I believe it ridicules the whole idea of cutting off more then a third of the movie to make it fill the display device, which is analogous to cropping a piece of painted art to make it fit the frame. In fact, I can't think of any other form of visual art where this sort of process is accepted.

Because of the small size of the TV, I understand that a 2:35:1 movie will look very small and you thus prefer the fullscreen version. That makes sense to me, and I do not question your preference. When I worked at Target a few years ago, however, the vast majority of guests who inquired about this believed that the widescreen version was cropped or partially obscured by the black bars, and that the fullscreen version was indeed the "whole deal". Thus my argument that the fullscreen preference expressed by most people is a matter of confusion or misunderstanding, and not an actual educated preference.

I simply happen to prefer separate fullscreen and widescreen versions because that way I feel like I don't pay for something that I will never use. It's a minor inconvenience, and some of the arguments that have been brought up have convinced me that dual version DVDs are not that bad of an idea currently. I do think labeling full screen as "family friendly" or widescreen as "only for widescreen TVs" is bad, however, because that gives a wrong impression of the relative benefits of the two formats.

Now, what I think is much more "serious" is when DVDs get released as a fullscreen version only when the OAR is, in fact, not fullscreen.

shakespear
09-12-2003, 02:14 PM
My advice sell (eBay) your regular edditions NOW so you can get the most for them, they wont be worth near as much when the SE come out.


BTW Where is my DisneyWORLD DVD?

And the "Swamp Fox" DVDs?!