dvc members vs. illegal poolsters

[ez]

Stayed at bwv memorial weekend and had 4 families of friends staying at s/d. These are my dear friends who I love, Florida residents, and how shall I say, upscale, professional people. Well, to make a long story short, my dear friends think nothing of crashing disney pools. These are otherwise honest, church-going people. I didn't pool hop to sab memorial weekend, because I was told we couldn't, but they did, successfully I guess, because they got there early. Can someone please explain how people feel entitled to use disney pools in this manner? These people are truly wonderful...so how come they don't look upon pool crashing as wrong? Just wondering!

[CarolAnnC]

Perhaps on a very hot summer day, some people feel that they can just take their swimsuits, beach towels and march on over to the nearest neighbor's pool to cool off in, without asking. It is a pervasive attitude of entitlement that seems to be encroaching upon many areas of this society. Not to mention the bad example this sets for our children to see. Very sad.

[WebmasterDoc]

Some people consider pool-crashing to be a victimless "crime" - where their selfish actions won't hurt anyone else.

The same principle applies (at WDW) with those who park at Epcot or MK resorts with the intent to go into the park- not just to dine at the resort.

Others will use WDW transportation without holding a valid pass entitling them to do so. Others will ride the boat from DD to OKW- just to go for a ride- with the mistaken thought that it is included in their hopper pass program. (Resort transportation is really intended- and paid for- by the resort offering the transport and is NOT part of the WDW Transportation Corp travel. ...an exception is the boat from PO to DD- which is paid for by the DD merchants.)

Since Disney apparently isn't presently interested in taking steps to curtail these transgressions in general, there are those who will always find the loopholes in the programs and use them to their advantage.

To truly address all of these issues, Dsiney would have to check ID for everyone boarding a bus (very time consuming), gate and pay an attendant for each resort pool and actually send CM's around in the parking lots to check for resort ID and then tow offending vehicles. These measures would undoubtedly cost mega bucks and cause mega headaches and bad PR.

Would the cost justify the headaches??

I sure don't know what the solution may be for these issues....:(

[ohiominnie]

You make good points, Doc. The only thing is, I'll be upset if they take away pool hopping from DVC members and don't do anything about the other "pool crashers" out there.

My family and I enjoy checking out other pools, and have always followed the rules (calling in advance to check pool capacity) When you have a society of people who follow the rules, there won't be (as many) problems. When everyone thinks they are entitled to everything else and they break the rules to get it --thats when problems occur.

Pool hopping is a great benefit for DVC MEMBERS . If everyone else wants to pool hop they should join DVC (quick, before the only thing left to buy is that new, huge, expensive resort by Eagle Pines) ;)

Just my ever so humble $.02
ohiominnie :p

[baileybrad]

for the pool castmembers to occasionally spot check the IDs of folks lounging by the resort pools. When they do this at the WL/VWL main pool it is many times like rats jumping off of a sinking ship. Many of these folks know exactly what they are doing is wrong, if they didn't they wouldn't scidaddle once the ID check started. Although I can't prove it, my gut tells me that checking IDs on a more frequent basis at the pools would really cutback on the "overcrowdedness" that causes poolhopping to be curtailed at some of the resort pools. It is also just fair to the folks that are staying at the resort. I too do not want a lockdown of Disney property but the using of the pools is flat-out trespassing, no more, no less.

I think Ohiominnie's point of following the rules is right on the money. As Carol mentioned it is really no different than walking into a neighbor's pool area and just making yourself feel right at home.

[WebmasterDoc]

I sure don't want to see poolhopping disappear either. It was intended as a simple, costless perk which could be easily implemented and used as a sales tool. When OKW opened, pool hopping was not a real convenience- since you'd have to drive or bus to another resort to hop and most did not take advantage of the perk. The presence of BWV in 1996 - within walking distance of SAB- brought a new dimension to the policy....people were now actually using it!

As baileybrad suggests, a routine spot check of ID's could easily serve as a deterrent to those tresspassing at a pool. Once the word got out that ID's are actually checked, I suspect the practice would significantly change. Each resort can make it clear that guests will need their room ID to use their pool. As long as the policy is upheld by actually checking, it can work. Checking ID's will have to be done by a CM other than a lifeguard, as lifeguards do have more important duties.

[PrincessPoppy]

Just FYI, I called CRO to ask specifically what the policy was at Stormalong Bay. I asked if part of our party was staying at YC/BC whether the rest of the party (who was staying at BWI) would also be allowed to use the pool. The CM said yes, as long as they weren't bringing 15 people along. (I wasn't asking about DVC privileges.)

My point is that there are rules, but Disney also doesn't want to be Big Brother.

Now, what I don't understand is why the friends staying at S/D didn't want to use their pool. The summer Disney Magazine listed it in their "best pools" story as the most lush and exotic.

I also think many people honestly believe that one of the perks of staying on site is that they get to use the "on site" pools and are surprised to find that pool-hopping isn't a guest privilege.

[KNWVIKING]

Look at this problem from Disneys point of view: What are the pool crashers costing them ? WDW resorts have solid booking totals.The parks are almost always crowded.The pool isn't costing more to operate just because crashers are swimming.We DVC'ers complain here about it,but Disney can't build new DVC resorts fast enough. Disney knows that no matter how you got to the property,once you get there you're going to spend $$$ on food,drinks,gifts...whatever. Disney fixes things when it affects the bottom line. When WDW see's a drop in revenue and they determine pool crashers as the cause,then they'll spend whatever it takes to eliminate them. I have a real cheap idea for WDW. At each pool entrance just post a simple sign stating to the effect "Trespassers will be prosecutted to the fullest extent of the law" I'd bet you'd cut the crasher population in half. Next step would be to add staff to check ID's. They would only be needed for a short time because once word got out WDW was serious about stopping crashers-then they'd stop coming.But right now,WDW doesn't see it as a problem.

[Doctor P]

Actually, pool crashing could cost Disney some money if people are pool crashing rather than spending money on admission to Disney's water parks. Overcrowded pools would also be a negative that might deter repeat visitors, so pool crashing might be a factor on that dimension also.

I really hope the pool hopping privilege is retained for DVC members. My DSD loves to swim and seeing the various pools and having an opportunity to swim in them would be really neat.

[ez]

My friends used the s/d pool the first day and went to sab the second day, I guess because they heard it was cool & wanted the kids to play in the sand there. They did act like they were entitled to it and here I am a dvc member not going over because I could.n't pool hop on a holiday weekend.
I know my friends must have felt as though they were not hurting anybody, so it was okay to do. They did act as though this was an option afforded them by staying in the epcot resort area, although I tactfully tried to explain that it was not. I guess I was the one who came off looking like an idiot for not going,but , well, I knew I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO! Ah, ignorance is bliss. And if disney isn't worried about it...they weren't either. Can't help but feel that as a rule abiding dvc member, I got the short end of the stick on that deal.

[KNWVIKING]

that was my point.If the overcrowded pools deter people from staying at that resort,then it will cost WDW money,then they will address the issue. But so far people aren't staying away. The first point you mention about these people not going to the water parks- THEY aren't going to go anyway,they're freeloaders.
Now-I'm not defending the crashers-but has anyone ever seen a notice posted at any resort that says the pool is intended solely for the use of resort guest ?

[wdwoldtimer]

I'm not sure where, but I think I've seen a sign saying something about resort guests only, near one of the pools.
EZ, I also know people who crash our pools!! They do this every time they vacation in Orlando. They always stay at one of those HUGE convention centers on International Drive. Yet they drive over to BWV, valet park, no less!!! And hang out at the pool all day. That has got to be the tackiest thing I've ever heard of. And these people are VERY well off too. It just shows you that money and class don't go hand in hand.

It's sad, but for these kinds of things, Disney's hands are tied, really. In order to treat us the way we expect, they can't enforce the "little" things too much. I'm sure if we had our ID's checked every time we went down to the pool, or used the gym, we'd be pretty insulted.

[ohiominnie]

wdwoldtimeer and KNWViking...

YES, they DO have signs saying that this pool is for the exclusive use of the guests of this resort. I'm SURE I've seen it at several pools, including SAB and at the Polynesian.

Keep in mind though, that this statement is on a sign with several other instructions (kids shouldn't be left unattended, no glass bottles, pool hours and etc...) ...and not many people that *I* saw were stopping to study the sign.

Maybe they need one that's more self-explanatory, something like
"IF YOU AREN'T STAYING AT THIS RESORT THEN KEEP OUT!!!!!!!!! (that means YOU!)" ;)

FWIW I'd strike up conversations with ppl at the pools..."where ya from?" "been at WDW long?" "which resort are you staying at?" ;) So far I've yet to "catch" anyone, and if I do, I still haven't figured out what I'd say! :) But maybe we should know a little about who is around us so if WE are asked to show IDs and/or asked to leave then we can mention..."oh, I think THEY are staying elsewhere too!" HA HA! :)

ohiominnie :p

[Disneysnel]

What about locals who just decide they would like to spend a day at SAB or another pool? I wonder how much this happens if they are not checking.

[rbuzzotta]

When the WL first opened and we stayed there, I recall a group of FLA residents just hanging at the pool. They were not staying at ANY WDW resort!!! If people can get away with it then they will continue to do it!!!

By the way, what is S/D?

[ez]

Swan & dolphin

[KCritter]

Here's a fairly cheap solution for Disney - Just install card readers at the entrance to the pools like they have at VB. No resort ID, no entrance.

[doubletrouble_vb]

Most people are aware that hanging out in a pool at a hotel to which they are not registered is wrong. The percentage of people doing so has to be minor and concentrated at specific pools because I gather that for the most part Disney doesn't check.

Let me add that other than an electronic entry (which would then requiring gating off the pools) there is absolutely no non-offensive way to check IDs. I guarentee you CM's would begin to cause PR problems with guests who are registered at the resort never mind the trespassers who are registered at other Diseny resorts & are unaware that they can't pool hop. (If I were of a mind to pool-hop ... other than SAB and non-Disney hotels it would have been news to me that I couldn't).

[RamVA]

If I'm a legitimate resort guest, and I'm told when I check in that I have to have my room key or resort ID with me to access the pool, why would I be offended? I have to have my key/ticket with me to get in the park--what's the difference?? The people who will be offended are the people who are crashing the pool, and when they get there find out they have to prove they belong there! I think this is an easy and smart solution to this problem. Until then, the only thing the rest of this can do, is to have the courage to speak up and say something to people when we become aware of what they are doing. But, that takes courage; we have become a culture of people who don't stand up, and speak up for what we know is right because it's not politically correct. I always hope that if I find myself in a situation like this I will have the personal courage to speak up and tell the offender, "What you're doing is wrong."

EZ, you should feel proud of yourself, not like an idiot. I always tell my kids, that being honest is its own reward; it's a good feeling to know who you are, and to be able to be proud of yourself--you don't need other peopl's high opinions of you, you have your own! Whenever I saw they were cheating, I would ask them what good it did them? And if they answered, "Well, I get to be the winner", I would tell them, but you know you cheated, so you KNOW you're not really the winner.
Happy to say, that they have turned out to be pretty honest kids! At least I did one thing right!


:D

[doubletrouble_vb]

<If I'm a legitimate resort guest, and I'm told when I check in that I have to have my room key or resort ID with me to access the pool, why would I be offended? >

I was being delicate but to be more specific...unless CM's check everyone's IDs at a given pool (a time consuming, labor intensive process) you then either do an obviously random spot check OR more likely the CM will settle on their own profile of what sort of people don't belong at a pool such as SAB. They will then target racial minorities, ethnic minorities and youthful people of all types. And since minorities are targeted throughout life they will recognize this behaviour for what it is. Hence becoming offended.

There is a easier approach modelled on the terrible thing Jersey Shore communities do to their beach users.

Give out coded badges when guests check in at resorts wth popular pools. Guests would attach them to an item of clothing or an object that would be with them at the pool. This way the CM's only have to ask people without visible badges to show a badge or a room key. And since you aren't really worried about getting rid of 100% of the trespassers it wouldn't matter if you lost badges or two. DVC members would get a DVC badge regardless of how popular their home pool is. Guests could obtain additional passes for day visitors.

And you don't have to worry about offending people either.

[wdwoldtimer]

I suppose card readers would do the trick and I don't think most members would find it a hassle to use the system. I mean, you have your room card with you most likely, anyway, right? It doesn't take much to swipe it through a gate, wait a second for the electronic lock to disengage and then enjoy the pool.

But I think the issue is more subtle. I think having to add security fencing doesn't really "fit" with one of the main Disney philosophies. To offer a place that is as free from the ugliness of the real world as possible. Doing things like adding security gates around the pools takes our "World" one step closer to the real one. I think that one of the main things that draws us back over and over again is that, while we are there, it's like living in some ideal place. An escape from reality, so to speak. It's the same reason that they never sell newspapers in the parks. It's one of the main philosophies behind Celebration. Just look at how important the "Welcome Home" thing is with so many DVCers. We don't really want it to seem like a hotel or a time share resort. WE want it to seem like home...or really, a fantasy home. Do you remember the first time you noticed that they started putting those shoplifting tags on items at the stores in the World? An ugly reminder that I bet Disney struggled over doing.

Have you ever gone to a non-Disney theme park? At least the ones near major cities have metal detectors at the entrances. Now on the surface, it shouldn't bother those who aren't trying to sneak a weapon into the park, right? And it should give an added sense of security to the guests that are only there to have fun. Yet because of that "in your face" reminder of the problems in our country these days, that theme park will never approach the magic we feel at Disney.

Personally I hope they never install gates around the pools. But I'd really be interested on what Disney's stance on this is....and how they would address it if it really got out of hand.

[wdwoldtimer]

Yep, another good point DoubleTrouble..."random" checks based on the CM's subconscious profiles is something we really want to avoid. Which is probably why they don't do it.
The "noticeable" badge thing is certainly better than a gate. And much less obtrusive and/or offensive.

[GrammieMame]

This has been suggested before. Color-coded wristbands would be inexpensive, unobtrusive, and easy to check without having to ask people for ID. Surely the minor inconvenience of having to wear one would be outweighed by knowing that only "legit" pool-users are at the pool.

[KNWVIKING]

I still believe if Disney took a hard stand against trespasser's- which is what these people are- then the problem would go away in a very short time. I seriously doubt 10's of thousands of people are doing this. When guest check in,it would be very simple to explain the "crasher" problem WDW is having and inform guests that for their benifit you may be asked to show your resort pass to use the pool- who would be offended by that. But when Disney does catch crashers they have to do more then politely ask them to leave. Maybe give them the option of paying for a "day pass for the use of the pool" or have trespassing charges filed. It might seem like bad PR, but does anybody care about offending a freeloader !

[ohiominnie]

Ugh, think of the tan line that wrist band would cause!!!!


ONLY KIDDING!!!!

ohiominnie :p

[PamOKW]

I've already seen the gate abused at Vero so that isn't the whole solution. (Just slip in before the gate closes or rely on people being helpful and holding the gate for you.) There are other things Vero does that could be done at WDW.

1. You need to show your key to order from the pool snack bar.

2. You show your key to get towels. This is also when a wrist band or some other identifier can be handed out.

I'm not sure if Vero does this or not, but you also put a stop to changing in the rest rooms. Guests can easily head back to their rooms. It's a problem for the pool hoppers but one we could put up with.

[ohiominnie]

I'm not sure I'd be pleased with the "no changing in the restroom" policy.

This past trip to WDW we pool hopped quite a bit, and sometimes we had to change at the rest room in order to get to PS on time. For example...we went to the Polynesian pool around 3pm, and played in the pool until around 6, leaving us enough time to get changed and get to our PS at Chef Mickey's. If we would have been "forced" to go back to our room (at OKW) we would have had to leave the pool MUCH earlier and everyone in the family would have been dissapointed (especially since we already had to vacate the pool for 45 minutes to an hour because someone threw up in it!) :( :mad: :( :mad:

Sometimes we only had "X" amount of time, enough to pool hop, but not enough time to waste time getting from place to place to place to place.

ohiominnie :p

[mickey7861]

. But when Disney does catch crashers they have to do more then politely ask them to leave. Maybe give them the option of paying for a "day pass for the use of the pool" or have trespassing charges filed. It might seem like bad PR, but does anybody care about offending a freeloader !

I agree that pool crashers are a problem however I'm sure WDW doesn't see them as freeloaders. Most visitors to WDW do not stay on site therefore WDW is not quick to harass the offenders. As long as things are going smoothly WDW doesn't care who uses their pools, if they did they would have stopped this problem long ago. The only time WDW is willing to do anything about this issue is when resort guests begin to complain. The "squeeky wheel" syndrome. I don't pool hop, even now that we have DVC, it just never appealed to us. Swimming is usually just for a quick cool off in the afternoon. I have friends who have pool hopped every trip for 20 years! Is it legal...NO. Do they care...NO. Has anyone ever tried to stop them...NO. It's not right but unfortunately until WDW chooses to lay done the law we're stuck with it.

[CaptainMidnight]

" I'm not sure if Vero does this or not, but you also put a stop to changing in the rest rooms. Guests can easily head back to their rooms. It's a problem for the pool hoppers but one we could put up with."

Well, don't forget the senario where a legitimate DVC member arrives early and room isn't ready or stays to swim later past the check out time, but has been a legitimate resort guest that day and just needs to be able to shower and change before hopping in the car to drive home. They should still be able to use the changing rooms. Actually, I thought that was what the nice changing areas were for.

[TnRobin]

We often do arrive early and make use of the pools before our room is ready (Changing in the restrooms).

Just wanted to add an observation. On our recent visit to the new Grand Californian at Disneyland, they have gated thier pool and you must have your Room ID in order to enter the pool area. I wouldn't be surprised to see this at the new resorts and maybe at SAB in the future.

[one_cat]

I'm always friendly and talkative when on vacation - much to DW's chagrin sometimes - especially when sitting by the pool or in the hottub. At the bw pool I always ask people if they are DVC members, how they like the resort etc. During our vacation in May I spent about 1/2 hour in conversation with one family in the hottub. When I turned to start talking to another couple they suddenly had somewhere they needed to be :) I assume they were doing some illegal pool-hopping...

[Towncrier]

When we stayed at WL in 1998, there was a CM who went around putting wristbands on the people who were allowed to use the pool. It was the only time that I've ever seen this done at WDW. When we first got to the pool, he walked over to us and politely asked to see our resort ID. Upon presenting it, we got wristbands. For the remainder of our stay at WL, he recognized us and didn't ask to see our ID's, but he did give us wristbands. Of course this translates to an added expense for Disney, but as a guest, it was worth it to me to know that there weren't any "rule-breakers" at the pool. And besides, I was the one paying the "big bucks" to stay at WL. :)

[mkymouse1928]

Although my husband and I don't do a whole lot of swimming while visiting WDW I have to agree that I don't like the idea of people using the pools who aren't supposed to be there. The idea of wristbands is a good one. You can receive them at check for your entire party, and if you should have guests all you need to do is go to the front desk and request additional bands. Maybe Disney could charge like a $1 or 2 for the additional bands to help offset the cost

And I will go one step further and say pool passes could be sold annually to locals. As a Disney investor I wouldn't want to upset these people by telling them they aren't welcome. Afterall they do buy AP to the parks and dine frequently at the resort restraunts. A large part of the revenue would be lost if we lost these people coming on to property. The pass wouldn't have to be expensive and it can be explained very politely as to the reason why they are doing this. The true freeloaders aren't going purchase them and reasonably intelligent people aren't going to be offended. Plus it increases revenue for WDW as there is little expense to outside people using the pools and wristband would be relatively inexpensive.

Any thoughts?

[ohiominnie]

Thought of a glitch in the keycard entry idea. This morning I was thinking about the different pools we've been to while at WDW. Stormalong Bay came to mind and how spread out it is. Now, there are only a few places you can actually enter the pool area, but this is where the problem is. Let's say you are at the "main" part of the pool, and your 8 yr old wants to go down that huge slide. That requires exiting the pool area. And to keep out non-resort guests, Disney would have to have a keycard reader to enter the big slide. So your kids would have to have a keycard on them at all times. And not LOSE it! ;)

OR, Disney could install the keycard reader 1/2 way down that slide! LOL :)

Other pools may not pose this particular problem, but then again, other pools aren't quite as popular as Stormalong Bay.

ohiominnie :p

[BarbOKW]

When were at BW this past March I struck up a conversation with the lady next to me. She freely admitted that she was a local and that it's common practice for the locals to go to the Disney pools. She even explained to me how Disney allows this at the BW pool because it's part of the "Boardwalk" experience. Well since I had only one chair for my family of 6 and it took me a half and hour to get that, I was not happy. She had 3 chairs and was had her 4 kids with her and she had a huge bag of snacks so they weren't spending any money. I did rat on her and she was asked to leave. I spoke to a CM and they explained that this is a real problem at BW and they're considering solutions most likely a fence.

I also often change at the pools the day we arrive and the day we leave. So I'd hate to see them not allow that, besides how are they going to monitor the changing they'd have to have someone sit in the washroom to make sure you don't change.

I think the key card like a Vero is the best idea. When I was at Vero it didn't bother me I assumed it was there for the protection of my right to use the pool as a guest of the resort with other resort guest, rather than with whomever decided to walk off the beach. People do let people without keycards in because they assume they're guests also. I think most people are they just don't have their card all the time.

[Olaf]

It seems to me that if all of us wrote letters about our experiences and suggestions for improvement, Disney might just listen. I mean if they're going to go to all the trouble of carding/excluding DVC members during busy times, they can sure make effort to police for total outsiders.

I'm going to write a letter today.

[PamOKW]

Well, don't forget the senario where a legitimate DVC member arrives early and room isn't ready or stays to swim later past the check out time, but has been a legitimate resort guest that day and just needs to be able to shower and change before hopping in the car to drive home. They should still be able to use the changing rooms.

Captain Midnight I had thought about that. I think the solution is that changing needs to be done only by the pools. It seems Disney Security can tell when folks are changing in the other restrooms (off the lobby etc.) and they could post a sign about no changing. Not a total solution but it might help.

Maybe Disney could charge like a $1 or 2 for the additional bands to help offset the cost

In theory the idea of providing some type of pool pass sounds okay but I just think it will legitimize abuse and doesn't increase revenue much. I know of a family living in Orlando now that makes completely free use of as many WDW facilities as they can. They park for free, use the pools for free, lounge in the various lobby areas to read and relax. In general use every available opportunity at WDW for free entertainment yet spend very little beyond paying for their AP. Providing a yearly pool pass would also take away from the sale of water park APs. Why buy that when you can hang out at SAB?

[Minnietta]

We're going to be at OKW during the 4th of July. We have not been members long so we have not done any pool hopping at all but looked forward to the privilege. What upsets me is that Disney's first priority should be to their guests at the resort, second to their DVC members and then to the rest of the population! It seems as though the DVC members are being singled out as the ones that have to be eliminated instead of the pool crashers whether from outside hotels or locals. They need to eliminate those people before they even begin to address the DVC members privileges. We are not traveling with but know of a big group of people going at the same time....the plans are to pool hop and they are not even staying onsite. Of course now WE can't! It's not right.:(

[KNWVIKING]

"The true freeloaders aren't going purchase them and reasonably intelligent people aren't going to be offended."

I'm sorry, but I don't feel any freeloader is a reasonable or intelligent person. They are stealing ! You also stated that they buy AP's- do they- we have no way of knowing if they ever spent a dime at Disney. They park for free- in my spot- at BWV and cherry pick which pool they want to swim in. Or they park in DD and hop a resort bus-sitting in my seat- and get dropped off at the front door of their favorite pool. I have no more tolerance for these people as I do for "line hoppers" or any other rude,inconsiderate,greedy,etc person. That's what they are,WDW has to treat them as such.

[DisneyMim]

In response to the original post, I've been saying this all along and your story just adds more to my opinion. I have always believed that it is the "outsiders" who are doing most of the pool hopping. Way back when you were allowed to pool hop to any Disney pool providing you were staying at a Disney resort. Some people are obviously still doing this. Once again, it is not us DVC people overtaking pools, it is Disney resort guests, non-property guests, and area residents.

[TheWho]

I will be at BW during 4th of July week. I do not plan on pool hopping because the notice has gone out that it is forbidden and I plan to obey the rules. However, I only know this because I'm a DVC member and have been notified. What about all of these "outsiders" who will freeload that week just like any other week? Should I go to SAB and play dumb like they do? It seems odd, I just paid $15,000 to join DVC and be told to obey the rules while others have paid zero and will "innocently" be enjoying SAB. Should I stoop to the level of the freeloaders and visit SAB that week? (if I do, I will of course report back to this board)