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steve3021
09-03-2003, 04:33 PM
We have just returned from WDW and did the DVC tour at The Boardwalk.I've got some questions if anyone can help:-

1. Do the points per night at the resorts ever increase.
i.e. Will 20 points still buy you a night at Boardwalk in
40 years time?
2. By how much do the dues increase per year(more than
inflation/less than?)

Hilary
09-03-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by steve3021
We have just returned from WDW and did the DVC tour at The Boardwalk.I've got some questions if anyone can help:-

1. Do the points per night at the resorts ever increase.
i.e. Will 20 points still buy you a night at Boardwalk in
40 years time?
2. By how much do the dues increase per year(more than
inflation/less than?)
1. No.
i.e. Yes. !
The overall number of points per unit per resort per year can never increase, but there could be some adjustments made within a resort. For any increase anywhere, there would have to be a corresponding decrease to make the annual total stay the same.
2. Historically the dues have generally increased less than inflation rate (I don't have any figures), but last year's increase was bigger than most. Dues cannot make a profit for DVC and must reflect the actual costs of running the resorts. My hunch would be that costs for repairs and refurbishments may increase with the age of the resorts, but I'm only guessing.

vernon
09-03-2003, 05:00 PM
Hi Steve, the dues have historically (over the 10 years I've been a member) averaged in the range of 3-3.5% PA. I've answered that first *** Q1) can take a while.

The total points for each type of unit for every year is fixed. i.e if a one bedroom at OKW costs 9000 points ( made up example) then that total CAN NOT go higher (or lower) . But within that total, individual seasons (or days) can go up but there has to be a downward movement in one of the other seasons (or days) Disney could also equal out ( or increase) the difference between weekdays and weekend. But for every point increase there must be a matching decrease somewhere in the year in the same unit size. If they were to alter the ratio between weekdays/ends at a certain time of year I feel certain the cost for a week at that time would not move.

With such a long running program, Disney really needs the flexibility to ensure the program works efficiently for the membership. Easter is probably the best example of how this works. Easter is a flexible holiday that can move by several weeks from one year to the next, it allows Disney to move the "premium season" to match the high demand Easter holiday. In theory Should something like school vacations having a major change in the US, for example all the schools moving to three or four equal "terms" and having breaks of equal length throughout the year, would have a major impact on the demand peaks and troughs. For Disney to be able to juggle within the fixed total gives them the tools to make the system work in the best interest of the owners. Obviously it does mean that there is a possibility that if you wanted ALWAYS to have 11 days in a one bedroom from October the 17th each year that your costs in points terms may go up. It is unlikely IMHO but it is possible.

steve3021
09-03-2003, 05:04 PM
Thanks for that,
I've got a hundred other questions but they'll have to wait 'til tomorrow
Steve.....

Hilary
09-03-2003, 05:37 PM
Nearly forgot - Welcome to the DIS boards, Steve! :wave:

KayleeUK
09-04-2003, 01:58 PM
Welcome to the Dis :wave: Steve :)

steve3021
09-04-2003, 02:15 PM
Thanks for the welcome,
I'm really tempted but this is a big step.
I'd like to fire off a few questions,a straightforward one to start:-

1.Is there still availability at Beach Club because this is the area we really like.

2.My guide on the tour (Diane) mentioned that I would have to sign up by 2nd Sept to benefit from the discount rate at SSR but looking around the boards it seems this is still ongoing,am I right or wrong in that?

3.What happens if I sign up and things don't work out,say after 5 years,is my investment down the Swanny?

4.How are my points implemented,say I sign up today for 200 points,does that mean I will immediately have 200 points to use and the same from next September?

That's a few for now,any answers gratefully received.
Thanks,
Steve....

Hilary
09-04-2003, 03:00 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve3021
Thanks for the welcome,
I'm really tempted but this is a big step.
Yes, it is a big step - and one we've all been through too! I can only speak for myself, but I certainly took a while to finally decide that it was the right thing for us to do. There's no point in rushing this if you're uncertain - you've got at least another 39 years of DVC ahead of you if you do join!
1.Is there still availability at Beach Club because this is the area we really like.
I think BCV is still available. If you buy here your membership will run to 2042, if you went for Saratoga Springs or any other subsequent resort it would run to 2054.
2.My guide on the tour (Diane) mentioned that I would have to sign up by 2nd Sept to benefit from the discount rate at SSR but looking around the boards it seems this is still ongoing,am I right or wrong in that?
I don't know the answer to this, but I know the guides can and do sometimes hold over an offer if you've already expressed an interest. The introductory price per point may be running only until 2nd Sept - I've lost track! However, I'd be wary of using a guide who was 'pressurising' me to buy within a short time frame. I'd be happy to give you the name and number of my guide who was always happy to let us have as long as we liked to think things over and ask her questions.
3.What happens if I sign up and things don't work out,say after 5 years,is my investment down the Swanny?
You shouldn't be looking at this as an monetary investment. You will be able to sell your membership in 5 years, or 5 months or 5weeks, but whether or not you would recoup your original sum is an unknown. Members who purchased very early on in the programme have been able to sell their membership at a profit, but there's no guarantee that that will apply to every member. At the moment there is a healthy resale market, but that may or may not last as the expiry date approaches.
4.How are my points implemented,say I sign up today for 200 points,does that mean I will immediately have 200 points to use and the same from next September?
Your use year wouldn't be September, but would more likely be around June. Yes, you would have 2003 points to use straight away and another 200 would be in your account in June (if that's your use year) in 2004.

steve3021
09-04-2003, 03:41 PM
Thanks Hilary,I didn't intend for q3 to sound so mercenary,I just needed to know if I would recoup any of my outlay should anything unforseen happen in the future.

Now, I know that everyone's circumstances and preferences are different but with the knowledge that you now have, would you have done anything differently when starting out on this venture?The Resort you chose,points initially taken up,the method of payment,any regrets at all.
I don't mean to sound intrusive, I just want to get all the angles.

Hilary
09-04-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by steve3021
Thanks Hilary,I didn't intend for q3 to sound so mercenary,I just needed to know if I would recoup any of my outlay should anything unforseen happen in the future.

Now, I know that everyone's circumstances and preferences are different but with the knowledge that you now have, would you have done anything differently when starting out on this venture?The Resort you chose,points initially taken up,the method of payment,any regrets at all.
I don't mean to sound intrusive, I just want to get all the angles.

I hope I didn't sound too blunt when I answered q3! I just meant that DVC can be great for what it is, but you shouldn't join on the basis that you will definitley be able to recoup your outlay or make a profit. :)

Would I have done anything differently? Well, like everyone else, I wish I'd joined sooner as I know how much we could have 'saved' by avoiding the hotel bills all those trips!

I know everyone always recommends buying where you intend to stay most, but we bought at VWL and usually stay at OKW because the points are less and DH can fish there! With hindsight I think a resale at OKW (not available from DVC when we joined) may have been better for us (although I really love VWL) but I wouldn't have felt comfortable dealing with a foreign legal system and such large amounts of money without knowing more about the way realtors work in the US. So we bought direct from DVC and found the whole thing to be very easy (maybe too easy! LOL).

steve3021
09-04-2003, 05:09 PM
You've brought me on to my next question,Re-sales seem a real bargain,I was just looking at that page and Boardwalk Villas are on there for as little as $65 a point for 240 points.So what's the catch?Why doesn't everbody do it that way?
Is there a difference in their method of payments compared to Disney or perhaps large commission charges??

Hilary
09-05-2003, 03:21 AM
Steve, I'm very happy to answer your questions where I can, but I hope someone else will also give you their views as I don't want your decision to rest on what I've said! ;) Anyway, until someone else chips in, here's my take on resales:


I didn't know much (if anything) about resales before we purchased but, like I said, I wasn't really interested in going down that route because of the 'unknown' quantity with regard to the differences in legal status, etc. in the US. We're just naturally very cautious people and we were talking about a lot of money, so it was a non-starter for us. However, now that I have read reports from those who have found the whole resale business to be no problem from the UK, I might be persuaded to consider it. On the other hand, it's always a pleasure to hand over your cash to Disney! ;)

There is a difference in the payment in that you have to pay the whole amount for the resale - although you could still arrange your own loan to do this. I've also heard that it can be difficult to get the brokers to accept a cc payment and you then pay charges on getting a cheque / transfer made out in US funds. I think the commission to the broker is negotiable between the buyer and seller.

There are various 'value-added' factors you need to be aware of if going resale - the number of points borowed / banked, the payment of dues for current points and the payment of closing fees (the commission we've already mentioned). The price you should pay per point will be affected. If your offer is accepted (it seems that no-one normally pays the full asking price - like buying a house here) it will be sent for approval by DVC. If they think the price is too low, they may step in and buy it from the seller instead and you lose the deal - DVC's Right of First Refusal.

I've wittered on long enough - off to do some work now! :)

MickeyMcMouse
09-05-2003, 03:42 AM
Hi Steve,

Know exactly what you are going thro. We had thought of many of the same questions you have asked, including the resale one.

For us, it was a big enough decission to make, without confussing the issue with all the factors that Hilary mentioned about resales ;) so we went direct with Disney.(although I am sure many first time dvc'ers use resale)

Having said that, now that we kinda understand the mechanics, we might go for a resale the next time. - one big problem, no amount of points is ever enough;)

We will look at SSR when we go in nov/dec but I have a feeling that it is maybe to close to downtown for Fiona's credit card to survive meltdown ( women and shopping :confused: )

Like almost everyone who has bought into dvc, the only regret we have is not having purchased it when we first looked at it 5 or 6 years ago - all that hesitation must have cost me thousands in unnecessary hotel bills and increases in points costs.

David :D

steve3021
09-05-2003, 05:02 AM
Thanks for all your help everybody(sorry for monopolising your time Hilary).
Anyway,I'm off to Milan in 5 minutes for the footy tomorrow.
I'll be back Monday,hope to bend your ears some more then.
Cheers,
Steve....

vernon
09-05-2003, 05:33 AM
I think there are a number of reasons why people tend to buy through Disney above all I think ignorance of the possibilities of the resale market is number one reason , after that in no particular order is ease of transaction, confidence in dealing with Disney as opposed to an unknown resale broker, Disney's loan facility (although the rates are not overly generous), choice of resort ( SSR is only available through Disney and the extra 12 years of use is going to be a big incentive for a lot of people).

I was lucky enough to buy in 93, if there was a resale market I didn't know about. If I was buying now I would contemplate a resale, but the extra time on SSR does make the calculation for "fair value" on a resale a little more complicated but it should be possible to do that. Once you have a "fair value" in your head it then lets you look at which resort you prefer. I agree I like the proximity and convenience of the BW/BC areas, but if it's too much of a premium I would probably opt for the better value of SSR as I do believe SSR is priced to encourage people to get the sales moving there. If the previous resorts are any guide the price is likely to rise if sales are brisk. There are "closing costs" to a resale, for a sale of above 200 points these shouldn't alter the overall fact that it shows a pretty good saving. In theory the longer tenure of SSR ( and any following resorts) should mean they retain a better/larger resale value, that may be a factor in your final choice.

How important your choice of "home " resort is does depend on the time of year you travel. If you would always travel at Xmas and Easter, then it is likely that you'll need the 11 month window to secure your choice of resort. If you're more likely to go at a quiet time, then that isn't going to be such an important factor. Another important point is how far in advance do you book? If you never book/plan earlier than 6 months in advance then the difference in " booking window" is irrelevant, you might as well just go for the best "deal" you can find. Although do take into consideration that your holiday style will change as your family grows and what you currently do may change overthe years.

spm23
09-05-2003, 08:18 AM
Steve,

My wife and I are in the same dilema as you. We actually put a deposit down for SSR and are still not sure about the final payment, we have 1 more week to decide.

SSR is valid until 2054, so it has a longer use life for the investment.
The discount period will run until they sign up a magical amount, ie they can discount perhaps 30% of the points and then the rest will be sold at $89. If you buy now at $79, then in theory, there is a premium to be had once the SSR is fully sold.
You can always sell individual points each year as well and if you get the $10 per point that seems to be current, then there is a small profit/full recovery made. However, this is not the main purchase consideration.

My wife and I worry about the Worldwide resorts and using those, we see massive value and great resorts if you were to go to Disney every year, but if you want to go elsewhere, I think its a little expensive.

Also, at just 3 % a year, then the dues on 200 points will be 2,500 a year in 50 years, but I suppose 20 was a lot 50 years ago to our parents.

Hope you enjoyed Milan, I went to the Italian Cup final there after they won the European Cup, stadium is fantastic, hope Wales win too.

Hilary
09-05-2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by steve3021
(sorry for monopolising your time Hilary).
Steve....
Absolutely no problem at all :) It wasn't so much that you were monopolising my time, as I was monopolising the answers! I just didn't want you to be listening only to me without getting any other opinions. I'm glad to see that you've had some other responses too.

Hope you have a good weekend :)

SNOWHITE7
10-03-2003, 08:02 PM
We bought our DVC resale last year. Like most people we were apprehensive about dealing with US resale agents and a different legal system with such a large amount of money but the price difference meant we could buy 200 points instead of 150 direct from Disney :D.

We searched the US DVC board for recommendations of resale agents and Bexx from this board was also very helpful as she had recently bought resale. We bought through Shontell Crawford at www.DVCByResale.com and she explanied everything to us and was happy to answer any questions even phoning us to make sure we were happy with everything. The main reason for buying resale was the price but it also meant we could buy at OKW which was not available direct from Disney. It took longer than it would have done to buy direct and was a little more involved but it worked for us.

When we bought our resale Disney did not seem to exercise their Right of First Refusal very often but this has changed over the last year and at one time they were buying back lots of contracts. You would need to get advice from the resale agent about the price they seem to let through now, since if they do buy back it means starting again and would take even longer.

A search on the US DVC board should give you some other recommendations for resale agents, I know the board sponsor, The Timeshare Store is often mentioned.

There are other things to consider which I haven't covered but there are lots of people with more experience than me, especially on the US board who could probably help if you would like more details of resales. If there is anything else I can help with I'd be happy to try.

PoohBears#1fan
10-07-2003, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by steve3021
Now, I know that everyone's circumstances and preferences are different but with the knowledge that you now have, would you have done anything differently when starting out on this venture?

If we could turn the clock back, I can honestly say that the ONLY thing we'd have done differently is bought in earlier!!!!

We talked to reps during our stay in 2001, but very half heartedly, we then had it in the backs of our minds for a further year (didn't do the tour at the time), we looked into it seriously a year later and bought in August 2002, we've also just added on some more points.

It is a huge decision but one we don't regret for a second :)

I found these boards invaluable while we were mulling it over, have fun deciding.

Bexx
10-07-2003, 03:45 PM
Hi steve3021. I'm not on these boards very often at the moment - second baby due in, hopefully, a matter of days. But I just saw my name mentioned by Snowhite7 and thought I'd say hello. I think we can both reassure you that resale is a perfectly safe way to purchase DVC, as long as you deal through a reputable agent like Shontell. It is a bit more of a hassle than buying direct from Disney - things like you have to transfer the money via your bank rather than just being able to pay by credit card. But I also wanted OKW and if you want a resort that is sold out, as most of them are, being able to purchase a cheaper contract for the home resort you really want, is certainly worth just a little extra time.

The only thing I wish I had been more aware of is the significance of your use year. As it happens I was lucky and mine works well for the times of year I'm likely to visit. It's not essential to your DVC happiness, but it's useful to know how it works before you buy!