Dues-do you still feel DVC is a good deal?

[disneycrazed139]

I have been seriously considering DVC ownership, but then when I look at the monthly or annual dues, I feel that after I have already paid thousands of dollars, I don't want to feel that I have to spend 600 or 700 dollars a year on top of that for dues. It sort of seems to eliminate the whole benefit of pre-paying the vacation, when you still are committed to this amount annually.

Any opinions on this?

Pros and cons?

Agree or disagree?

I am looking for any and all reasons to buy in to the program, but I can't seem to justify it with the high cost of annual dues. Convince me otherwise!!:rolleyes:

[PamOKW]

It's like buying a car. You still have to pay for the gas, insurance, maintenance, etc. That's what the dues are. DVC has done a very good job of containing costs and the only dramatic rise was last year when insurance costs slammed DVC. Hopefully, that won't be repeated too soon although overall it wasn't really that dramatic a rise in costs.

[Namdnas]

Ah, I see the conflict, and I had it as well.

Let me just say that if you're thinking, 'I can get a room at the Swan or off Disney' for a $100/night, you're right. BUT, once you've stayed on-site at a DVC property, especially in something as impressive as a 2BR or GV, you won't make those comparisons again... it'll make you feel like it's a good deal.

I rented points to try it once before I bought in. The 2BRs at OKW are truly excellent. Full kitchen, actual space to move around, etc...

[disneycrazed139]

What if I only have minimal points (like 150) and would probably budget it with a studio or every other year 1 bedroom? Is it still much more fabulous than say staying at a moderate with housekeeping? Or the swan or dolphin?

I thought that the dues were less or that they were incorporated into the purchase price, at first. I did the math and figured the dues about triple the price of the original purchase and I was disappointed because I wanted to buy SO badly!

Please convince me further!!

[crisi]

For $600 a year I can get ten nights in a BWV studio - choice season (153 points). Not what I do, but for comparision purposes.

Or I can stay at the CBR for about four nights after I pay taxes. Or the All Stars for six, maybe seven nights. I can stay two nights at BWI.

Now, if I'm willing to stay offsite, I can get a lovely room for around $600, but I'm not staying offsite - haven't since 1984 and never will again.

With the FTP, you can truly get some excellent deals this year - but no guarentees on next year. I'm pretty sure that thirty years from now, my dues (which will be more than $600, but still reasonable) will still get me about ten nights in that studio.

But if $600 a year is a lot to you DVC may not be for you. It is an annual financial obligation and is a lot of money to a lot of people.

[Namdnas]

OK, let me take another shot at it.

I did buy (1st buy, and yes, I'm already sweating buying more points) the minimum at BCV. That's enough to get us a 2BR at Beach Club in the low season (we'll often go in January) from Sunday to Thursday. The 'rack' rate for this room in the same season is $535 per night, and with taxes it's $596 (11.5% total for hotels in Florida). So, at rack rate it would book for $2883 for those 5 days. You can pretty much assume that the market price for the room 'reflects' how nice it is. These rooms (in this case a 2BR home) are comparable to premium hotel rooms. While you don't get housekeeping every day, the amenities more than make up for it, and again, trust me, they're damn nice (I was pleasantly shocked).

Now, lets assume that you can pretty much always get a 20% discount if you look hard enough. That would bring a more real cost for the 5 days to about $2386.

Assuming you buy this with Magical Beginings (you forfeit your first years points, but still pay pro-rated dues) for $74/point for 150 points. This would cost
$11100, with no closing costs (direct from Disney, not resale). If you get 39 years at 150 / year, you have total of 5850 points. $11100/5850 = $1.90/point purchase cost (yes everyone, I am neglecting time value of money, but I'm trying to make this easy).

Now, maintenance fees are approx. $4.00/(point-year) for a yearly maintenance fee of approx. $4x150 = $600 /year. Add to that $1.90x150=$285, and the 5 days cost you roughly $885.

Compare $885 to $2386 and you've got a $1500/year savings.

Now, you could invest the money, and figure out the anticipated return, say 10% historically, but you'll still be hard pressed to beat the savings. Keep in mind that dues are based on actual running costs for the resorts, which Disney can't raise for profit. I think they'll continue increase far slower than inflation and room rates in general, especially at Disney.

Enjoy!!!

[bcvillastwo]

Your observations about the dues seem logical but I think it depends on how you go about making your comparisons. There are any number of assumptions that people make when considering buying into DVC and cost seems to be one of the major hang ups both the initial cost and the dreaded annual dues payments. I agree, there is considerable cost involved and for some it really is out of the question. I would suggest the following.

1st estimate how much you would ordinarily spend on accomodations and don't forget to factor in the taxes you will pay.

2nd calculate your the cost of DVC (purchase price, dues, and interest if you have to finance). The goal her is to get to arrive at how much is cost per point. If you don't want to figure it out you can use an estimate that I've seen and it works out to around $6.00 per point ($2.00 DVC cost and $4.00 dues). Remember it could be a bit higher if you are financing.

3rd. Calculate how much it will cost for one night at DVC. (Lets say it's $6.00 per point and it cost 12 points for one night. That works out to $144 per night.

4th. If it cost you less than $144 per night to rent then it wouldn't make sense financially to go with DVC.

I've found it best to make this evaluation by comparing similar rooms (studio to moderate room) by breaking down the cost on a per point basis. That way you can compare costs night by night.

I'm sure others will add their own advice and perspectives but always try to compare apples with apples if you can. But remember one thing a studio is probably going to be the closest thing you can find to a regular room at WDW. It's not an exact comparison because the studio's are for the most part nicer than just regular rooms.

[Richyams]

I don't think staying in studios gives such a good break even time.

I get the OKW GV for 10-12 nights every year for the cost of dues, about $1,500.

$150 a night for the OKW GV, seems ok to me.

[Namdnas]

BCVillastwo makes some good points, and if I run the rough numbers with a std. room at the Beach Club Resort (cheapest room at that resort) in the low season, the rack rate is $289/night. If I again use 11.5% tax, 20% discount, I get $258/night, for a total of $1289 for the five days in the std. room. A comparable studio at the Beach club Villas would be 12 points/night. at $6/point that comes to $72/night or $360 for the 5 days, still a good deal.

Remember, the larger rooms are a big treat, as Richyams has mentioned, and comparing them to a hotel room is tough.

Take care.

[jaysue]

Since we are on the studios "thing", you will need (if not already so) aware that at all DVC at WDW except for OKW, the studios have a Queen bed and roll-away Double - this may be a + or - for you depending on your situation

Studios are slightly larger than moderate rooms - 360 and 375 square feet versus 314 square feet and also than the Deluxe WL and AKL (340 square feet) - they are not as large as the Monorail or Epcot Deluxe resort rooms

I agree with Richm, that studios can be a tough comparison - the real magic comes from the 1 and 2BR (and of course GV) that are part of DVC - in other words having space at WDW for a family and the opportunity of having a full kitchen for easy breakfast, supper break and then of course, not having to pack as many clothes due to the washer/dryer in the larger units

Thanks
jaysue

[timC]

Lot of good suggestions above...

Let me add, that when we looked at costs and breakevens, etc, we accounted for the day when a studio would no longer be big enough for our family. Now, when we travel to visit family, or other non-DVC trip, I've gotta rent 2 rooms with is lock-off. Ugh.

As Rich points out, the deal gets better as room size goes up. Yes, Rich. That rule seems to apply when comparing OKW to BWV rooms too ;)

Also. We pay dues monthy. IMO it's a little less painful. :(

[Disney Doll]

In general, if money is that tight, then the DVC may not be a good option for you at this point.

Basically the way we figured it was once we paid off the inital investment for the purchase of the points, all our vacations cost us was the annual dues fee.

We have 2 contracts, and the total for dues is about $120/month, which comes out to $1440 year, and we usually take two and sometimes three 5-7 day trips every year. IMHO, there is no room on WDW property where I can stay for 14-21 days for $1440 or less that even comes close to equalling what I get at a DVC resort, regardless of which one you pick.

[mikesmom]

We were also pleasantly surprised (shocked, really) at how much we saved on food. Now, we've always traveled with teenagers, so take that into account. I do NOT cook every night. We cook breakfast and stock the kitchen with sodas, lots of fruit, bottled water, chips, frozen pizza, etc. I also make a grocery stop to buy deli meats, cheeses, lettuce, tomatoes and buns. I make up substantial deli-style sandwiches each night and wrap tightly. The boys would grab those and eat at will. They take the water, etc into the parks with them. Also, when we did have sit down meals at Disney we always brought home leftovers that usually became another meal.

The breakast, snack and lunch food we would be buying even at home. The amounts saved was probably hundreds. Can I quantify that? Not easily, but I do take it into account when I compare the cost of staying DVC style with the cost regular accomodations.

Everyone has their own answer, though. You have to do what works for you.

[DaveH]

We bought into DVC 2 years ago. We are empty nesters and usually stay at the All Stars. We bought 150 points. We stay in studios. Ok when I broke down the cost of DVC with the All Stars(where we stay not quality even compare) DVC is slightly more. Our current dues is around$50 per month. I think slightly less. OK the differences. Small fridge bigger than available at AS. Toaster, microwave in room not at AS. Free washer and dryer in common area, AS is around $2 per load washer and dryer. Has 1 bed and a sofa bed, which means for us most of the time a sofa. For a little more money to us we get better rooms than we would if with cash. Have to save less for trip because do not have to pay for a room after normal bills. normal bills include mortgage and dues. We have less than 8 years left on mortgage then just dues. When mortgage done just plan on some rise in dues and plan on max and anything less is extra money. I wish we bought a few more points but will not buy more anytime soon. I hope this helps.

[dmorrill]

:bounce: At first I thought about the dues and the costs the same as you are. we really wanted to stay at the Boardwalk Villas but even for a studio at the time with taxes at peak season it was $365 a night. when we looked at the numbers when we bought into the DVC four years ago,the cost of the points,plus the dues,it came out that the room was costing us $65 a night. So even though you are paying your dues monthly,or all at once, it's very well worth it. We put off for years buying in.I kick myself for that. We now have 554 points and will be buying more in a year or so.It's just a great deal if you really like to stay on Disney property..

[Dean]

DVC will only save you money if you plan to go to WDW every year and stay on property at a moderate or higher and not do long weekends. Even for a moderate, it's a little iffy if you take the recent discounts into account. What DVC does is give you better vacations for about the same you might pay otherwise.

The dues are high but if you compare to what you're getting, it can still be a good deal. You will not ever be able to make the numbers work if you compare to off site discount hotels or timeshares.

[cdy16zz]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaveH]

As Dean said you break even and go ahead if you use moderates. We think in the long run will will be ahead also but it make take more than 10 years. We are happy with DVC and are glad we did it. I just wanted to let you know for us, even though we would pay cash for All Stars only we feel it is worth it for us too. Good luck on whatever you decide.

[dianeschlicht]

Another thing to consider is if you get a home equity loan and pay off your DVC imediately, you get the tax benefit of the mortgage, and then dues is your only additional concern. We feel we broke even a long time ago, and there is now other way we can stay in a 2 or 3 bedroom villa for what we pay in dues each year. Maybe that is why we don't mind "squandering" points on a 2 bedroom for 3 or 4 people. We do it because we can!!

[BobH]

I believe the value of DVC lies in the quality of accomodations and the flexibility it offers. I was fortunate enough to pay cash for 240 points that cost me $14,800. I have been a member slightly under 3 years and if I had paid rack rate for my reservations I would have spent $11000. So I feel I will break even after about 2 more vacations - if I reserve a 1 bedroom or larger unit. Dues are a continuing expense but when you consider that you save 11% (Florida) room tax by being an owner I figure I would have spent about $220 a year on taxes anyway. So I feel the dues are not as high as they appear at first glance. I realize we pay real estate tax as a part of our dues but my annual taxes are lower than what I would have paid to rent the same rooms. I also have the flexibility of letting my adult children use my points and send them on vacations they probably would not be able to afford. It has to make sense to you to be a good value but if you are committed to taking vacations and are going to spend the money anyway I think you'll find it difficult to match the value you get for the money you spend.

[MOMO2DK]

Hi,
Reading the responses based on math- ownership and annual dues still add up to a good deal. This is especially true when you factor in travel that incldes using the larger rooms (1BR or larger).

When DH and I first bought, a 1BR at OKW was perfect for our family, but within 2 years, we can no longer stay in anything smaller than a 2BR. Our family has grown- our immediate family and our extended family with whom we "share the magic" (aka relatives that we share our vacation with).

If this could be you - a studio will be too small. And if a studio becomes too small for you, then the math works out even better (relative to dues etc...) when you start staying in the larger rooms.

Good Luck
Martha

:cool:

[disneycrazed139]

After reading all these, I think a good comparison (as a shopper) for DVC would be akin to buying something on lay-away...put money down and keep putting money down for something that maybe you wouldn't pay for all at once out of pocket for. That's my analogy anyway!
:)

I'm glad everyone is so happy with it.

[KANSAS]

i am very happy DVC Member. I love my home resorts BEACH Club villa and Boardwalk villa

I have never quesionted the cost of my DVC membership
at $74 per point

I greatly question, the annual dues. The annual dues, for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit is $63,000.

The total number of points to stay in this unit, around 16,000 x 3.96 per point, for all 365 days

I think. I am greatly overcharged for my annual dues.

I ahve come to the conclusion, that I cannot quite understand, what is included in annual dues for a DVC RESORT
All other members of the DVC board, including many, which much more experience, than me, about DVC, do not feel overcharged for their annual dues. So I have tried to accept. I am wrong on this issue.

I guess. I am so cynancial, because it seems like every company, has been accused of padding the numbers, to steal, from the shareholders, the last few years
I need to quit thinking this way.

[Namdnas]

Kansas,

$63k a year for dues on a room is extremely high, but I have a suspicion as to why.

Disney isn't stealing from the shareholders in this case, they are represented by those holding common stock. They could however, be financing other portions of their business on the bedrock that is DVC. I suspect that since they can't profit from the annual dues, that they charge the DVC resorts for shared costs at a, shall we say, non-discounted rate. So, even if the rates should be low, it would be posible for Disney to legally bump them up in these two ways.

One way they could profit would be for Disney corporate to lease the land to DVC at an exhorbitant rate. They get a huge lease fee, and DVC doesn't care, because the dues pay for it. Heck, they already own the land, so the lease to DVC would simply be a chargeback play.

Next, they could overcharge the DVC resorts for their portion of the transportation system, and the remaining Disney resorts look even more profitable. Also, does it matter if they are high? they can be passes on as dues right...

The benefit to them? They are guaranteed these dollars each and every year, regarless of occupancy at the normal resorts. Since dues go into keeping them running, DVC costs to Disney are zero, and factoring in the purchase costs, they are extremely profitable. Let's face it, even if your weren't Disney, construction in Florida is relatively cheap.

So that's my guess. Either way, as long as Disney get really greedy with this, I still think it's a good bargain. They couldn't really jack the prices up quickly even if they did play with these two numbers, since it would raise suspicion, and Disney is as adverse to lawsuits as any company.

Now, I've also been thinking about DVC in general for Disney, and it has to about the best thing since sliced bread.

Consider, even if the average cost/point since DVC has opened is $60/point. (forgive me, my numbers are going to be a bunch of guesses here) If there are at least 60,000 member, who purchased at least 150 points, the revenue would be approx 1/2 Billion dollars. I am absolutely sure that the building costs were a very small portion of that. The remainder is pure profit which Disney can reinvest at their own rate of return. Since dues pay for everything else, if they never heard from DVC again, they made a bunch of money. But, it only gets better. Assume 3/4 of all families go to the parks. That's approx. $1000 or better each year in park addmissions, and probably $750 for food and shopping. Since people have to go each year, or rent, they are locked in. That's $1750 each year that they can count on with no reservation hassles (DVC does that), guaranteed incremental revenue. The Disney manager who thought of this was a genious. And you know what, despite all Disney's profits, it's still better for you and me who love Disney and would have gone back every year anyway. What a magnificent feat!!!

[KANSAS]

NAMDAS

INTEREsTING THOUGHTS!!!!

[Dean]

Originally posted by KANSAS
iI greatly question, the annual dues. The annual dues, for a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit is $63,000.

The total number of points to stay in this unit, around 16,000 x 3.96 per point, for all 365 days

I think. I am greatly overcharged for my annual dues.

I ahve come to the conclusion, that I cannot quite understand, what is included in annual dues for a DVC RESORT
All other members of the DVC board, including many, which much more experience, than me, about DVC, do not feel overcharged for their annual dues. So I have tried to accept. I am wrong on this issue.

I guess. I am so cynancial, because it seems like every company, has been accused of padding the numbers, to steal, from the shareholders, the last few years
I need to quit thinking this way. While none of us have access to all the books and numbers, I am not concerned about illegal activity with the setup DVC has. The dues are high, but are they out of line compared to other timeshares and what we get? I say they are not that bad in the situation ASSUMING ONE FEELS STAYING ON SITE IS WORTH A PREMIUM.

The comparable Marriott's in HH and Orlando are around $700 for a 2 BR for a week. 300 DVC points would be in neighborhood of $1200 for a year. While $500 is a big difference, let's look at what we have that you wouldn't get with the Marriott setup. There is the flexibility of different times of year, different unit sizes and choosing the exact number of days you want or need. All except HH have a full service restaurant and all on site also get transportation. There are also lifeguards at most of the pools which we pay for in part.

While around 300 points may compare to a 2 BR for a week, around 200 points ($800/yr) will do just as well for most families and give them exactly what they want for a week. Many times one doesn’t need a 2 BR or has to leave a day early anyway. There’s also the internal trading option with DVC to other DVC resorts for no cost. No charge banking, borrowing, canceling and changing reservations. All of these things have value to many members but not to all.

I know this is an oversimplification and there are other advantages to the Marriott system for many of us but I feel it makes the point for the fees not being as bad as it seems on the surface. DVC is not a good choice comparatively for one who knows what time of the year they will come, always need the same size unit, can take Disney or leave it and will stay for a full week every time. DVC is the choice for one that wants to stay on property (and pay for it) and feels the flexibility has value for them.

[KANSAS]

Dean

Thank you again for your help, you have given me in the past
I consider you, the most knowledgable man, I have ever met, when it comes to Timeshares.
I agree with everything, that you said, in your recent post

I would just to make the argument, that when you compare DVC with Marriott, this is a good one.

But, I feel Marriott, is probablyalso overcharging me , for my annual dues, on my Marriott Beach Place Towers Timeshare, in Ft lauderdale,Fl as well as DVC is overcharging me for my DVC Beach Club villa Time share

But, I ahve no interest in selling my 2 DVC TIMESHARES, so I must find than the annual dues, tolerable, for the accomodations I get, with my timeshares, instead of paying cash for same timeshare rentals

[crisi]

KANSAS,

My own home expenses are pretty high. I pay a housekeeper about $5,000 a year to come clean my house. Like mousekeeping, I only get her services once a week. I pay a college kid around $1000 a summer to mow my lawn - just mow, I don't have the extensive gardens that Disney has around their properties and my property is less than a 1/4 acre. I do pay a landscaper another couple hundred a year to do spring prep work, including getting the sprinkler system running, and fall prep work, including blowing out the sprinker. And put several hundred dollars into annual and perennial flowers every year. We just went to home depot and spent $100 on lightbulbs - and know that will only last us six months! My only private road is my driveway - and that costs a couple hundred dollars to coat ever year or so.

I don't have security, don't have a bellhop, don't need desk staff, don't have a pool that needs to be maintained nor provide a lifeguard, and my homeowners insurance doesn't need to cover commercial use. The carpets in my hallways need to replaced after the feet of four people wear them out - not thousands. Disney has to provide commerical telecommunications (phones in every room with their own number - not cheap, that's part of what I do at work). They have to provide transportation to the parks.

To me, the dues are reasonable given the size and quality of the facility that is managed. My grandmother pays a townhome association fee of $300 a month. For that, they shovel her driveway (which fits a single parked car) and mow her postage stamp sized lawn. They also escrow money for repairs. That makes Disney dues look like a bargain.

[Namdnas]

I agree, things are fine with me too. I think the whole DVC experience is still cheaper and more enjoyable than a normal resort stay.

For me, this is more of a luxury, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. I want my kids to cherish these memories. My 2 1/2 year old is always talking about our 'vacation home' already.

As for the analysis, I do this mainly out of business curiosity. DVC makes sense for Disney as well, so I think we can also count on seeing more resorts, and an overall higher percentage of Disney visitorship over the years as well. Who wouldn't want guaranteed fully booked properties for at least 40 years!

[mamarobin24]

i would agree with Crisi.

My first thoughts about overcharging dues and/or is it worth it comes from my experiences renting other similar accomodations in places like Cape Cod, Newport and Sanibel Island. Our family is extensive and likes to travel together.

A condo/beach cottage on the Cape that was a mile from the beach cost us $2000 a week and slept 8. no housekeeping, no garden (no lawn in the sand) no washer/dryer. That was 7 years ago.

A beach cottage near Newport, RI, about 1/4 mile from the ocean cost us $1200 a week and slept 5 adults and one small 913-months) boy not very comfortably. Again, no garden, no housekeeping, no laundry. That was 14 years ago.

Sanibel for 8 in 2002 cost us $2500. That one had housekeeping and a garden.

So, i think it's a deal. Bseides, it's Disney on property - which, yes is TOTALLY worth it. I think the dues pay for the staff and for the upkeep. After spending about $6000 over 4 years to go to WDW about 18 nights (that's just rooms), we shoulda signed up for DVC earlier.

[ScottOKW2K]

I just did a quick visual survey on the TUG (Timeshare Users Group) site, looking at other resorts that - by vote of owners and renters - are in the same class as the Disney DVC resorts. For example, I looked at some of the classifieds for-sale listings, looking at some of the "Royal" resorts in Cancun, or some of the Marriott properties in Hilton Head.

The dues for these properties (1 week, 2 bedroom) were not very different for what I am paying for my 250 points at OKW. Since I am comparing ones that are all highly rated, I feel that this is a valid comaprison. Let's face it - no really well rated property is going to be cheap to buy into, nor are they going to be inexpensive to maintain. DVC, Marriott and others like them have a well-deserved reputation for their excellence of their resorts, and the quality of the service and amenities at those resorts. Needless to say, the cost of this is going to be higher that that of an average timeshare.

Personally, whenever I think about the $'s we have spent on DVC - whether it be the contract purchase or the dues paid - it always comes back to whether were are getting good VALUE for our money. For me , it's a no-brainer. Our contract is paid off, we have already recouped its cost in the stays we have done to date (2 br. VWL / GV OKW / 1 br BWV / 1 br. OKW), and from now until 2042 we can stay in DVC accommodations for about the cost of an value-season room at the All-Stars each month.

So, for us, was DVC a good deal ? Naaahhhhh.........

It was a GREAT DEAL !!

[DebbieB]

I've owned DVC for almost 4 years, have gone in 7 trips totaling 41 nights in 1 bedrooms. I paid $14,750 for 250 points at BWV after magical beginnings. So $14,750/41 = $360 per night. The rack rate for a 1 bedroom is around $400, so I figure I've made that up (not considering discounts available from CRO). My contract is paid off, so I'm basically getting 11 or 12 nights in a 1 bedroom for about $1,000 a year in dues (5 or 6 nights at OKW in May, 5 nights in BWV standard in early Dec). I didn't go into financial analysis when I bought, I bought it because I fell in love with the luxury of the 1 bedroom and it only made sense to buy. Even with possible discounts, I couldn't see shelling out $300-$400 a night for a 1 bedroom on a consistent basis. My dues are about $83 a month, which I don't even miss!

[princess&tig]

DVC is the best if you are or are planning on going to WDW every year. We just joined but if I look back on the last 10 years we have gone every year (many times twice per year) with hotels ranging from $800 to $1800. I could easily have paid for the DVC 2 times over again. The quality was not even close to DVC. Spending hours at the laundry room at the Contempory was a drag on the vaction.

In case no one has figured it out Disney make all their money on food. The have competition for hotels and even parks. So those prices are competitive. However, once they have you in the parks or hotels on hot summer days when you are so tired and hungry, you wander into a nice airconditioned restaurant with they best food in the world. You wind up paying $100 per meal for a family of 4 minimal. I used to figure $200 a day in food. The DVC can significantly reduce this. Eating a light breakfast in the room (you can make, pancakes, waffles, eggs...) and then a lunch and the parks ($75) and back to the room for dinner. I still hit the restaurants but usually for desserts. Now everyone loves the restaurants and I would never leave them out of my trips but I can substitute the fastfood meals for room meals.

Hotels, Laundry, Food, Quality of Vacactions, Locations, Being a Part of the Magic, The club was worth it just in dreams....

[pstepka]

We just spent 5 nights in a BCV studio by renting points and now want to buy ourselves. The studio was fine, but I really would have preferred at least a one bedroom. So...if we want deluxe accommodations at a great resort, and something larger than a studio AND on-site, it seems the best value would be to buy ourselves. If, however, we would want to stay in a studio each time, it would probably be best to just continue renting points. I can see that the cost (because of the annual dues) would not make it a good value.

Before we stayed at BCV, I didn't think it mattered (to us, anyway) if we were onsite or offsite. I know that you can get awsome accommodations offsite for much cheaper. BUT, after walking to Epcot, walking to the Boardwalk, taking the boat to MGM, we will NEVER stay anywhere but BCV!!!

So....I think it's a good value IF you want the onsite, deluxe, larger accommodations. If you're happy in a moderate, or happy in a condo off-site, then it's not for you.



Pam

[Rebd40]

Has anyone done an analysis comparing the cost of renting DVC points vs. buying DVC? So far I've seen comparisons to rack rates but how would the math come out if you assumed you rented points?

I go to WDW a couple of times a year and have been saving up to buy DVC. In order to decide which place I want for my "home base", I've been renting from DVCers to stay in studios or 1 bedrooms. But renting from DVCers has been so easy and so much cheaper than renting from Disney now I'm wondering if I should keep doing that instead of buying. But I'm willing to be talked out of that! :D

[pstepka]

I think if you're renting a studio each time, then it's probably not worth it to buy. But if you're getting at least a one bedroom, then maybe it is. Or if you are going to tire of Disney in the next 4 or 5 years - then it's not a better value. But, my thinking is that if you're going to stay in at least a 1 BR, and plan on going to Disney for the next 10 years at least, then it's a good value in the long run.

For instance, it would be 214 points to book a 1 BR at BCV in October. That would be 2140.00 if points are renting for 10.00 each. If you bought 214 points, and financed them (for ease in comparison), your monthly payments would probably be around 265.00. That comes out to about 3200.00. So, for the first few years it would be cheaper to rent. But, eventually your loan is paid off, so then you're only paying 1,000 a year. And, the cost to rent points will go up so it will cost more than 10.00/point to rent. I know maintenance fees go up, too, but I bet not proportionately to how much the going rate to rent points goes up.

I wrestled with the exact same thoughts...in fact I even told my husband we could just rent points each year. BUT...after doing more research, I'm convinced that DVC is a good choice for us. Plus, we want to vaca at HH every other year so we can still use our points!

You just have to be able to look ahead. I'm sure many people waited a few years befoer buying and then after they bought and they got to the point where it would be saving them money had they bought sooner, they could kick themselves for having not done it sooner. I don't want to be in that position, which is why I'm hoping to buy within the next month or so.

It seems it's defintely not a good choice if you don't HAVE to stay onsite. You can get great accommodations much cheaper offsite. But, after our stay at BCV, we know that we'll never want to stay anywhere else!

Pam

[DaveH]

The studio is what we plan on using most of the time. We have only 150 points and are emty nesters. We usually go off season so we can around 10 days. We fall under the margainal(sp?) good deal. We usually stay at All Stars. So just plain $ only no. Now here is the catch and why we like it. The cost today is slightly more than All Stars for us. Given historic rise in cost in general we will be paying less than All Stars in a few years. Yes I am including the interest on our mortgage and the increase in dues, even at maximum rate. To us the upgrade in the rooms is also somethig we would probally not have done either. If ever have grandkids then we will start vacationing differently, but for now we are happy.

[disneycrazed139]

The cost today is slightly more than All Stars for us.

Wondering, Dave, how do you figure that the cost is only slightly more than All Stars? I figure it comes out to be about twice as much.

Please don't get me wrong--I just bought in, so I came up with every reason that I could find to do so. Maybe you have another reason I still haven't discovered. Could you please explain how DVC is "slightly" more.

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by crisi
KANSAS,

My own home expenses are pretty high. I pay a housekeeper about $5,000 a year to come clean my house. Like mousekeeping, I only get her services once a week. I pay a college kid around $1000 a summer to mow my lawn - just mow, I don't have the extensive gardens that Disney has around their properties and my property is less than a 1/4 acre. I do pay a landscaper another couple hundred a year to do spring prep work, including getting the sprinkler system running, and fall prep work, including blowing out the sprinker. And put several hundred dollars into annual and perennial flowers every year. We just went to home depot and spent $100 on lightbulbs - and know that will only last us six months! My only private road is my driveway - and that costs a couple hundred dollars to coat ever year or so.

I don't have security, don't have a bellhop, don't need desk staff, don't have a pool that needs to be maintained nor provide a lifeguard, and my homeowners insurance doesn't need to cover commercial use. The carpets in my hallways need to replaced after the feet of four people wear them out - not thousands. Disney has to provide commerical telecommunications (phones in every room with their own number - not cheap, that's part of what I do at work). They have to provide transportation to the parks.

To me, the dues are reasonable given the size and quality of the facility that is managed. My grandmother pays a townhome association fee of $300 a month. For that, they shovel her driveway (which fits a single parked car) and mow her postage stamp sized lawn. They also escrow money for repairs. That makes Disney dues look like a bargain.
Excellent points here. Perhaps I missed it in this or other posts, but our dues also pay for electricity and air conditioning, heat, plumbing, septic, furniture, linens, soap, Tide, dish detergent. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. :cool:

[drtpaper]

Yadda Yadda Yadda - comparisons to onsite resorts
Blah Blah Blah - comparisons to offsite resorts

Taking your tired toddler back to the room for a nap without wasting hours - priceless

Eating a nutritious lunch in an air conditioned room only 15 minutes from the park - priceless or $30 cheaper than in the park

Relaxing by the pool for an hour while your other two boys play in the pool and go down the waterslide to cool off from the heat -priceless

Being back in the park with 3 happy, rested, cooled off kids - priceless

Watching Illuminations every night and being back in the room 20 minutes after it is over - priceless

Having a full kitchen to make your late night snack and store your 12 pack of beer - priceless

I can never get the numbers to work out when I try to calculate them because the parts that make a DVC resort special. Put down the calculator - it is more expensive than Motel 6. Get out your check book - its going to cost you a lot up front. Sit back and truly enjoy a vacation and don't settle for second best. 39 years from now, you probably be dead, but the memories of DVC will be alive in several generations of your off spring and you will be remembered fondly. If you have the luxury of outlasting your DVC membership, I guarantee, you will want to buy another.

[BobH]

Well said! We all try to justify our purchases but your reasons are the ones that keep me with DVC!

[ncligs]

Originally posted by drtpaper
39 years from now, you probably be dead, but the memories of DVC will be alive in several generations of your off spring and you will be remembered fondly.

"Excellent post" and very true, and probably the most important reason we purchased DVC.

[RDHLinda]

I feel one of the best part in owning in DVC is planning my vacation. I look at it as a prepaid vacation. When you have money invested and know you will recieve a certain amount of points a year you take the time not only to plan your vacation but to take a vacation. I fine it interesting that in America we take less vacations than many other countries around the world.

[Kick it up a notch!]

I would like to mention a "not so monitary" approach. I bought points for two reasons - to save money and to enjoy Walt Disney World in a fashion I otherwise would not be able to. Now I find that only one of those reasons really applys, the second one. I really don't think I saved any money, and before everyone freaks, let me explain. I bought 600 points, 200 original and two subsequent purchases. I pay roughly $2000 annually for dues and we probably use 400-450 points a year (not to mention the purchase costs, I will leave that to your imagination) and our friends and family reimburse me some for the other points we use with them. If I didn't have these points I probably wouldn't go to WDW every year like we do, and when I did I wouldn't stay where we stay, BWV or OKW in a two bedroom unit.(maybe a GV at OKW sometimes) So I really didn't save any money and I probably spend more than I would if I didn't own. The second reason I stated (enjoying WDW in a fashion I otherwise would not) is most definately true. I actually enjoy WDW more than we used to before we owned, because I can relax in larger accomodations every year and know I am going every year and have something to anticipate by planning our trips way in advance. Now it is not where do we go, it is when do we go back to WDW. I like the flexibility of being able to use it elsewhere (our kids are young but someday we will venture to other places) and just as often.

I just don't see the savings, I see a better value for the money I spent, but I have not saved a penny and spent a whole lot more.

If you appreciate value for the money you spend, and are not looking to pinch pennies while on vacation (frugality is allowed) then purchase and enjoy DVC. It will be the best thing you ever do, trust me.

[mamarobin24]

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, since we recently came into a sizable inheritance. The first thing I thought was, "let's buy at least 300 more points!!!" Then we upgraded our RV, and this interesting realization came to me: we could stay at Fort Wilderness in our 32' motorhome for 2 weeks a year, for what it would cost in dues on those extra points. Now, I'm torn.

The joy of living in our motorhome is that I know I have everything I need, I don't need to unpack, I get to sleep in my own bed, and the kids get their playstation as well. (I am using the first person here, because in our family at least, you know it ain't the Other Half that's doing any of the packing/unpacking!!)The joy of a 1br at VWL is that we're in a hotel, I don't have to cook if I don't have to and we don't have to drive down from the great frozen Tundra of Northern VT in February. Now, I'm finding myself really wondering if we need extra points, or if we need to just move closer. . . not that I'm selling the points we already have, mind you.

Of course, VWL is our favorite resort. So FW is not that different. If our fav was Boardwalk, I can see that it would be a completely different deal.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) We have both DVC and non-DVC timeshares.
2) The maintenance fees for a week are pretty close.
3) I feel DVC maintenance fees are reasonable.

[Dean]

Originally posted by TheRustyScupper
1) We have both DVC and non-DVC timeshares.
2) The maintenance fees for a week are pretty close.
3) I feel DVC maintenance fees are reasonable. Outside HI and maybe Aruba, what fees are $1200-1400 for a 2 BR for a week. My MX timeshare is less than $300 and my highest Marriott is $750 per week. I know there may be other fees involved such as Marriott's fee to split a 2 BR or having to join an exchange company, but not to the tune of more than $500 per year.

[Stingray151]

Having just joined 8-18-03, the best argument for me was the inflation factor. Cost for a stay on-site has risen 5-10% per year; and shall probably continue to do so. The point requirements may vary slightly per season; however, the sum total at any DVC resort shall never change. That vacation taken in 2004 shall require the same in 2040!:bounce: :bounce: :earseek:

Yeah, the initial hit may seem a struggle. Once your mortgage is paid off....you'll have inexpensive yet luxurious vacations for the next 28 years.

We stayed at Yacht Club prior to joining. After 8 days, we transferred off-site for the Universal thing. What a mistake to leave Disney property. I'll never stay anywhere else in Orlando again!:earsboy: :earsboy: :tongue: :earsboy:

[ncligs]

Originally posted by Stingray151
Having just joined 8-18-03........

Stingray

"WELCOME HOME" and to the DIS!!!http://www.wdwinfo.com/sites/family/beerchug.gif