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cindy_k
07-29-2003, 06:58 AM
New Dining Rules
New dining rules start on August 4th. If you have a package booked with the Walt Disney Travel Company with a PAID deposit, then you can make a PS for MOST locations 180 days in advance. If not, then you can make your PS 90 days out. This is a HUGE change. It now means that AP reservations, FL resident reservations, Cast reservations, AAA reservations or room only booking in Central Reservations can only make PS after WDTC guests have made theirs. To be clear, there will no longer be a 120/60 days out policy. It's now a 180/90 days out policy depending on what kind of reservation you have booked. Disney will now have a two tiered dining schedule it would seem. Where you fall in the tiers depends on how much money you spend (ie. book a package).


I got this off another board that I read and Deb has put it up on her site.
http://www.wdwig.com/restnews.htm

Good Luck!
Cindy in NY

zulaya
07-29-2003, 07:10 AM
OKay, so how does that affect DVC members who stay at DVC resorts on points and don't have a "deposit"?

punkin
07-29-2003, 07:16 AM
Good-by CRT ressies. There's no way for us AP holders then. Are those deposits refundable?

mickeysaver
07-29-2003, 07:19 AM
What about those of us that book through CRO and pay in full when we book? I think that Disney just made a big mistake on many levels. But, time will tell. I would rant on this, but I have to go to work. Mickey

elgerber
07-29-2003, 07:31 AM
I don't usually post to complain about new policies, but this one I think, has gone too far. I am an AP holder and a DVC member. As another poster said, there goes any chance at CRT breakfast. No one will probably be able to get those reservations now except for people who book packages. I am guessing that the rest of us will have a hard time getting the times we want for our dinners now as well. This winter we are going with another family, and I wanted to book early eating times, to increase our chances of getting tables together. I have heard it's harder to do at later seatings because everything is full. I am betting this will be much harder for us to do as well.

This takes effect August 4th, and of course my first day to book my 120 day ps's was August 8th.

Erika

MrsPete
07-29-2003, 07:34 AM
This is a way of encouraging people to buy Disney's packages. Packages, which usually include the Ultimate Park Hoppers, are more profitable for Disney than a room-only reservation.

Why are packages more profitable? Consider:

Packages assure Disney that you can't buy your park hoppers from anyone else (i.e. Connections or Ebay).
You can't save your unused days for a later trip, thus you'll have to spend again on tickets.
If you have Ultimate Park Hoppers for Disney, you're not likely to run over to Sea World or Universal and pay again.
Some packages include food, which assures them that you're not eating at McDonalds.

I think most people on this board have agreed that IN GENERAL, packages have been more expensive than piece by piece bookings. Disney would rather see us all book packages, and they're encouraging us to do so with this new policy.

DebbieB
07-29-2003, 07:36 AM
What if you make a WDTC reservation and then cancel it to go to a code or AP rate? I assume all the PS's made will be automatically canceled.

crs7568
07-29-2003, 07:44 AM
I cannot believe this new policy. I chose this year to be the year that we purchased annual passes for my family and it seems that my timing could not have been worse. The FairyTale package certainly blows away any AP discounts and the new priority seating system does not do anything to make me feel better about my annual passes. I will definitely attempt to book when my window of opportunity opens, but if it is difficult to get reservations at decent times then I will have no problem with eating at the many great restaurants in the Universal Studios resort area. I really think that this was a bad decision on the part of Disney.

disneyjunkie
07-29-2003, 07:44 AM
Why can't they just make this a perk for all on site guest?

If you stay at a disney resort, you can make your PS 180 days out, off site guest 90 days out.


If they HAVE to change the way PSs are booked, why not take hard to book places out of the mix?

Allow whoever the targeted group is the abiltity to book all PS 180 days out except Cindy's, V&A...,leave these as they are so that everyone has the same chance of getting a PS.

I wonder how this will effect booking the Illuminations Cruise, tours, kids clubs, Pirate Cruisie, Adventures in Cooking......?


I'm on hold with CRO right now. The CM has no idea what I'm talking about. The supervisior said they just found out about the change yesterday. They're calling dining to see if someone can give me some answers.

punkin
07-29-2003, 07:46 AM
This will not make any difference for most places. The only issues will be for those very hard to get PSs such as CRT, illuminations cruises, California Grill at fireworks time, Rose and Crown around illuminations time, etc. Besides most people do not know where they want to eat at 180 days out (not everyone is as fanatic as we are on the dis). So no, this would not be a real reason for me to book a package (unless it's priced like the FTP was this year) I'll keep my AP (and don't tell me Disney makes more money off one package deal for someone who comes once every 5 years or me, an AP holder who's there at least 4 times per year)

ducklite
07-29-2003, 07:50 AM
This is a real slap in the face to DVC members. By buying DVC we've in effect guaranteed WDW that we will becoming and spending money with them for decades to come.

They've cut off their noes to spite there face on this one. They've now created a disincentive to buy into DVC. With the BCV being almost sold out, and by all accounts most feel that SS will be a harder sell, they just made it even harder.

Anne

Pooh Girl 71
07-29-2003, 07:58 AM
Does anyone have any idea what this will do to those of us who have PS' for after Aug 4th?

CamColt
07-29-2003, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by crs7568
I cannot believe this new policy. I chose this year to be the year that we purchased annual passes for my family and it seems that my timing could not have been worse. The FairyTale package certainly blows away any AP discounts and the new priority seating system does not do anything to make me feel better about my annual passes. I will definitely attempt to book when my window of opportunity opens, but if it is difficult to get reservations at decent times then I will have no problem with eating at the many great restaurants in the Universal Studios resort area. I really think that this was a bad decision on the part of Disney.

Ditto! I thought these APs were going to be such a great thing and I feel like I made a mistake. :rolleyes: Im thinking if I cant get decent times(which I already have problems with for August...no later than 4:30 at Mama Melrose when calling exactly at 60 days), we wil just skip the sit down meals and pick up burgers. At least Ill be saving money since we usually have a few drinks each with sit down meals, and appetizers, salads, etc..

Well, remember everyone...when EE was cancelled people thought our email efforts were useless and look what happened. I think its time to start another campaign. ;)

madge
07-29-2003, 08:00 AM
ok....so I am clear on this....the new date for this is MONDAY, August 4. correct? The policy remains as it has been until then, right? My 60 day call date for my daughter's birthday is this Saturday, so it looks like I'm ok to try for Cinderella or Pooh for breakfast on 10/1. August 6 is the date for calling to get reservations at the Crystal Palace for the 10/5 MNSSHP, hopefully it won't be a problem!

madge
07-29-2003, 08:02 AM
Along with the AP and DVC people, the guests eligible for SoG won't be able to book anything early, either. If you stay at SoG, then you aren't on a WDTC package and the overflow reservations go through CRO :(

elgerber
07-29-2003, 08:02 AM
Do you think this will take effect for booking of the Illumintions cruises too??? I hope not.

Erika

disneyjunkie
07-29-2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by DebbieB
What if you make a WDTC reservation and then cancel it to go to a code or AP rate? I assume all the PS's made will be automatically canceled.

I was wondering the same thing.

Well, the person I spoke with in dining wanted to how I found out about the changes. She said she didn't think they were going to include Cindy's in the new policy. She would forward the guestion about AP holders, and DVC members to another department.

She really wasn't able to give any positive yes or no answers. Maybe people should call to let them them know how they feel about the new policy.

I may not book any of disney packages, but they still get all of my money while we're there. Once we arrive on site, we only do disney parks. We do not go off site to have dinner. Heck, we don't even bring our own water and soda.

Our next trip is a short one to celebrate DS's birthday and do MNSSHP. There's no way we'll be able to take full advantage of an UHPP.

becka
07-29-2003, 08:03 AM
:(

I am also not one to usually complain but I have to agree with the others that this does NOT sound like a good idea. AP holders, DVC members, etc. really do bring in a lot of business and IMHO are perhaps more likely to eat at Disney than your average WDW vacationeer. I know on our first trip we didn't want to "waste" time doing too many sit down meals, etc. but on subsequent trips we are more relaxed since we have done so much previously and we love going to new restaurants - I would imagine that many AP and DVC members are the same. If I was having trouble getting into those places I really wanted to try I would be a little ticked off.

This change could really effect me personally on our next trip because we will have DS who likes to eat on a pretty regular schedule. Being 30 minutes late on a meal can make him one grumpy camper. I was really hoping to get my PS's for around 11 for lunch and 5 for dinner....I hope I don't have trouble getting those times now. I guess if I can't get them then will will do more counter service (less money for WDW), buy groceries for the room and do sandwiches for lunch (no money for WDW), etc. and/or just eat some off-site (no money for WDW).

GoofItUp
07-29-2003, 08:07 AM
Alright...those of you with more experience....tell the rest of us what to do. Who do we call, e-mail, gripe and complain to? I have been prepared to not have breakfast at CRT or get the Illuminations cruise if I don't get through in time, but I'd at least like the *chance* to try!

nasmith
07-29-2003, 08:09 AM
Disney has been disappointing me alot lately- and this is the MOST disappointing change yet! We go to WDW about 4 times a year, eat EVERY meal in their restaurants, stay concierge......Apparently I do not spend enough money there, however - so I should be shut out of getting good dining reservations? That's FINE - if they want to entice people who buy packages - and probably go to WDW once every few years or so- They are alienating people like me! I think they are going lose alot of money in the long run! Time to send yet another letter to Disney expressing my disappointment! Jill

ripleysmom
07-29-2003, 08:11 AM
Personally I got no problem with this. It's WDW's right to make their policy the way that they want. If you want to make sure that you can get your PS's then you will pay for the privilege.

As for not buying DVC because of this? I don't see that happening either. DVC is about more than PS's. The units are too tempting and just too good of a deal to pass on because I can't get ressies for something....at least IMHO.

GladysK
07-29-2003, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by nasmith
Disney has been disappointing me alot lately- and this is the MOST disappointing change yet! We go to WDW about 4 times a year, eat EVERY meal in their restaurants, stay concierge......! Jill

I thought the whole point of staying concierge was they can get you last minute "hard to get" ressies to most restaurants. Why would that change?

On my last trip, I walked up to the front desk and the CM made my next day's dining ressies with NO PROBLEM.

I don't think this change is a big deal for normal dining ressies.:rolleyes:

mommystieg
07-29-2003, 08:16 AM
Whose bright idea was this:confused: I am also an AP holder and DVC member--why are we being punished for being loyal Disney visitors:confused:

dvcmember
07-29-2003, 08:18 AM
It hardly seems fair to give perks to people who come to disney once in a Blue Moon and exclude annual passholders and DVC members. Those of us who are loyal disney fans and come multiple times year after year are the people whoo keep the place going. It seems that they really missed the boat on this one. Barb

trampslady
07-29-2003, 08:19 AM
I have to say that, as a DVC Member contemplating an add-on of 100 points today, I'm a bit upset by the apparent prospect of this new rule. Of course, I just got off the phone with dining and they new nothing of it. When asked where I heard this info, I reported back various Disney-related web sites. She immediately blew it off as rumor, scandal, etc. I politely reminded her that these "scandalous" web sites generally have more correct and timely information than they do! Still don't know more than I did before.

We eat every meal at WDW and never even venture off the property for anything. We have visited from Texas six times this year, been on the cruise, and have two trips remaining for the year. I would say my family contributes to the profitability of Disney. In return I would just like to have the same advantages as those that buy packages from Disney.

zulaya
07-29-2003, 08:20 AM
Just called Dining and was very explicit with my informatino and "Audrey" had no idea. I asked to speak to a supervisor, and she said they would have no more info that she would...basically she refused to transfer me. Her opinion was this wouldn't ever happen. She said just wait until Aug 4 and see what happens. Yeah, like you can do that when you are worried about getting Cindy's.

Josephine
07-29-2003, 08:21 AM
This may be to get everyone used to booking with the travel company. As of January 2004 CRO will no longer exist. All room reservations that do not require tickets will be categorized as a basic package.

zulaya
07-29-2003, 08:23 AM
CRO going away has been a rumor for years. But if this dining policy is any indication, that may happen too.

Josephine
07-29-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by zulaya
CRO going away has been a rumor for years. But if this dining policy is any indication, that may happen too.

Yes I know but I have been told by Central reservations that it will be going away as of the beginning of 2004. Everyone is in the process of being trained on the new system that they will have. Some people are already on it.

Lori-n-NY
07-29-2003, 08:27 AM
Ok lets think about this for a minute.
When the first-time visitor books a package with WDTC or a local travel agent who is going to tell them to book any PS at 180 days? I booked first two trips from a TA and never once did she mention about PS. I know that is one TA but everyone think back to your first trip and did they tell you all that info? We have all seen the novice visitor at WDW and they are amazed when they can not get to eat somewhere because they did not call and reserve it. They had no idea. I have seen families have to go to a different place because there is no availablity. We are a big handful of people with a ton of knowledge and know the ins and outs of what to do when. We are still the minority of visitors to WDW.If you don't buy a guidebook or join a group online then your left clueless. And for us that helps us to assure our own PS we want.

Disney needs to keep the people coming if they want to add new rides and shows for us to enjoy. If they can convince people to but packages then they gain. Not everyone who books a package will also do alot of PS.
They encourage us to stay on site with early entry, free shuttles that run all day, refillable mugs for length of stay, and various other perks. They tried to increase their business with the FTP and how many of us took them up on the offer? I have read alot of people changed thier reservations to the FTP which saved them money and/or gave them more time at Disney.

I know alot of us are bumming right now waiting for the AP or room only codes for the fall and I for one can not wait much longer. I would not want to be a CM at CRO right now. They must be getting alot of calls. I also don't like to fact that the AP code will only be from 8/24-10/1 because I am going on 10/23.....
What a way to spend the summer wondering when the codes will be here and trying not to miss it.

Ok now that I have rambled and kinda got off track.I'm sorry.
Lets hope all things work out for everyone. Maybe we have to eat a little later or early then you wanted but hey there are worse things to deal with. Remember your in Disney World and others are not.
Keep the magic alive and enjoy.
Lori

Josephine
07-29-2003, 08:28 AM
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zulaya
07-29-2003, 08:34 AM
Back to the subject line...I just talked with another CM who basically said, if it isn't on the official Disney website, don't believe it. Yeah, I am that naive.

Looks like wherever Deb Wills got this info, it's from a source who hasn't leaked it anywhere else because no one I can call can confirm it.

Hopefully the PS Calculator Master, scottwdw, will chime in if he has any info on this.

JAP
07-29-2003, 08:37 AM
Lori in NY has some great points as does PetesMom.

How many people actually book a complete package through WDW travel? I would assume there would be some, but most people do some research before handing over a couple thousand dollars for a vacation.

I would think only a hand full of the reservations would be going to those people who book the "package". Yes it is a small advantage and that is not fair to the DVC folks, but IMO I don't think it will effect the overall PS schedules and obtaining the times you want.

zulaya
07-29-2003, 08:43 AM
JAP, I think you underestimate how many people feel overwhelmed by planning a Disney Trip and do book the package because they either don't know they can do it all themselves or they don't have the time to research it.

We on the DIS of course are going to plan it out months and months in advance, book our own rooms, get our own tix, etc. We seriously are a minority among the masses.

I think this new rule is designed not only to get people to spend more money on packages, but to increase bookings further in advance. I have been reading all year how Disney rooms haven't been reserved until 2-3 months ahead of time, when pre 9/11 it was 6-9 months on average. Disney wants those rooms filled ahead of time to increase their bottomline, so I think that has something to do with this as well.

mazzarafe
07-29-2003, 08:53 AM
I'm really not happy about this. I was getting all set to make my list of the ps's I was gonna get to make starting next month because I like to call the first day possible to get the time I want. No I'm not the only one because I've called at 7:00am serveral times for my last trip to have the time I asked for already gone.

Now for this trip that both my girls want to have breakfast in the castle will be even harder to come by. As will a chance at the princesses in Epcot.

This is very unfair because a package whether it is more expensive or not it is not meant for everyone. I would do it if I wasn't going to MVMCP the night we arrive. But we need some down time from getting into Disney to be up late. Also do not know when we are exactly getting there becaue airfare for my dates is outta control and I have no idea when we are leaving our last day. So why in the world would I pay for 2 days of park passes that I more than likely will not be using? And because of this I may not have the same chance I normally would at getting the harder ps's. Just doesn't seem fair to me. I don't go to Disney that often, but recently it's been once a year and since I have been going the cheapest trip has cost me $3k with one child and me and DH. We spend alot on meals because we like to eat nice on vacation and usually only do a few fast food meals. Not to mention all the extra's we spend $$$ on.

This may be my last trip to Disney for a few years and I'm hoping that this doesn't come to be true because I won't be in any rush to return because my $$$ is not as good as someone who books a package. That is really what they are saying, because lets face the fact that when we save money on one thing we spend it somewhere else while at Disney.

This would be a nice perk to add for onsite guests as mentioned by others. Well then why would they do anything else to lure guests to stay onsite anyway...

mazzarafe
07-29-2003, 09:00 AM
Just want to add one more thing. I know last post was winded, but don't you think that when people inquire about package prices they are going to find out from WDTC that this is a perk for purchasing the package?

Don't forget they also have changed the tickets being more inviting to purchase before arriving with cheaper costs. This is also info that you are informed about when calling for ticket prices.

It may take awhile to feel the pinch of this as word gets out. Just like the new breakfast at Norway was easy to get in the beginning but now word is out and it's not a sure thing anymore.

Scottwdw
07-29-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by zulaya
Back to the subject line...I just talked with another CM who basically said, if it isn't on the official Disney website, don't believe it. Yeah, I am that naive.

Looks like wherever Deb Wills got this info, it's from a source who hasn't leaked it anywhere else because no one I can call can confirm it.

Hopefully the PS Calculator Master, scottwdw, will chime in if he has any info on this.

Hey, thanks for the title zulaya!!

I heard about these changes yesterday but could not get anybody to confirm it until this morning. I would like to remind everyone so far I have not seen an OFFICIAL statement from WDW on this new PS policy.

This is what I do know as of now. This only effects restaurants and not recreation (ie., fishing water sports, golf, tennis, horse-back riding, etc.), dinner shows, GF kid's programs, Lunch With a Disney Artist, Bistro de Paris, Victoria & Alberts or Illumination cruises. This could change as WDW gives out all the details.

I will be sending out a newsletter tonight and update the boards as I find out more information. I will have the PS Calculator and (hopefully) the PS Report updated by Sunday to reflect this new policy.

One thing about package people not knowing about their priority seating advantage: They will know about it as WDTC and travel agents use it as a reason for booking a package. It will turn up in sales brochures, web sites and books in short order.

As always, if you don't like something WDW is doing, call or email them. And, here I am coming up on my 120 day PS window!!! :(

Happy Planning :confused:

Disneyolic
07-29-2003, 09:11 AM
When we booked through WDTC we booked "room only" and paid for just that. However, they always add in something like miniature golf w/o charge to make it a package. If that is the case in the future still, then we will be able to book our "rooms only" package and still be able to make those precious PSs. Can't really comment on DVC members.

I, also, do not agree with any of this if it does happen but remember that Disney has changed other perks (ie, early entry) and then went back to it. Guess we'll see...

zulaya
07-29-2003, 09:15 AM
SCottwdw, so basically you are confirming the meat of this - that package holders get to make PS at 180 days out and the rest of us get the 90 day window? And that this applies to Cinderella's Breakfast?

Scottwdw
07-29-2003, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by zulaya
SCottwdw, so basically you are confirming the meat of this - that package holders get to make PS at 180 days out and the rest of us get the 90 day window? And that this applies to Cinderella's Breakfast?

Whoops, yes, I've gotten more than one credible sources (wow, I sound like those guys in "All The President's Men"!) confirming the new policy.

JAP
07-29-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by zulaya
JAP, I think you underestimate how many people feel overwhelmed by planning a Disney Trip and do book the package because they either don't know they can do it all themselves or they don't have the time to research it.


I disagree. Back in 2000 when I was planning my trip I knew nothing about this Disney internet sites. I went to the official site thinking I would get all kinds of information. I looked at WDW Travel and their packages and decided I needed to check with a local travel agent. Then I decided to look into booking the whole deal myself. In doing my research I found this site as well as a few others. I also went to the library and checked out guides.

My point is anyone going to Disney who is going to lay down thousands of dollars will, more than likely, do a little research and just not bow down to almighty Disney.

Also, I think this thread is very contradictory to what many have stated on DisneySteve's thread regarding PS times.

lauraljp
07-29-2003, 09:30 AM
Let me see if I understand this. If August 4 comes and they do change this, I can call and try to get CRT for beginning of November because I will be within my 90 days at that point.

If so, there might be ALOT of people calling August 4 who were waiting for the 60 day window who can now get in within 90.

Laura

AmyA
07-29-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by madge
Along with the AP and DVC people, the guests eligible for SoG won't be able to book anything early, either. If you stay at SoG, then you aren't on a WDTC package and the overflow reservations go through CRO :(

I feel your pain, Madge! We always stay via SoG somehow when we go. By the time we get back from our Jannuary trip, we'll have made 4 trips and bought 6 APs within 18 months. I'm not sure why the loyal customers who return year after year are being punished. I think this would go over a lot better if they tied it into on-property reservations rather than WDTC packages.

PRINCESS VIJA
07-29-2003, 09:45 AM
what about the PS's that are already made????? We will have our PS's done (all but one that I really want) by Aug 4th, but will they then be cancelled, or will they honor those PS's that are already made?????? I am so stressed over this now.:(

I think I have to rearrange my itinerary again.:( :( :( :(

d-r
07-29-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by ripleysmom
Personally I got no problem with this. It's WDW's right to make their policy the way that they want. If you want to make sure that you can get your PS's then you will pay for the privilege.

As for not buying DVC because of this? I don't see that happening either. DVC is about more than PS's. The units are too tempting and just too good of a deal to pass on because I can't get ressies for something....at least IMHO.

I disagree. I would agree with you if this was a perk that was going to package members that didn't impact dvc reservers, but this does impact them because it is a limited resource (tables), and those booking a package are at an advantage to DVC members.

I'll try to explain that better. Say they go ahead with that idea that package bookers will be able to check in to their resort at the airport, and then be driven straight to a park and their baggage taken care of. Well, that doesn't bother me as a DVC person. Fine, let them pay for that in their package. More power, that's great. It doesn't impact me, it is just a perk I won't get.

But this PS policy is different because it could potentially impact me. It doesn't just let somebody else get a perk that they paid for, it could potentially mean that it impacts my vacation. It means that using my DVC points is a disadvantage. And that seems a really poor way to treat the people who have made the bigger commitment.

I'm all for capitalism, and I agree that it is wdw's right to do what they want, but I think it would be a stupid thing for them to do.

Lewisc
07-29-2003, 09:53 AM
I agree the policy, as reported, needs some "fine tuning" to be fair to everyone.

I'm not sure how many people are making PS on spec without having actually even reserved a room yet. Not sure how many PS are either being cancelled, changed or just no shows. Restricting early PS to people who have made a deposit on a WDTC package makes some sense as long as Disney comes up with something that is also fair to other guests

BUT We may not like some of the solutions (putting cancellation penalties on room only reservations or charging an advance deposit for PS)

PJesse25
07-29-2003, 09:57 AM
One question: how do they plan to enforce this policy? How will the CM's know when we call whether we have a package through WDTC or not? I am a travel agent and I can tell you, there are other wholesalers selling Disney packages and most people who are booking don't know which one their package is through. I can forsee a lot of problems with this policy.

Of course, my room reservation for my upcoming trip IS through WDTC, so I guess this may benefit me when it comes to CRT if does come to pass. I could also see them exempting Cindy's, though.

beattyfamily
07-29-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by PJesse25
One question: how do they plan to enforce this policy? How will the CM's know when we call whether we have a package through WDTC or not? I am a travel agent and I can tell you, there are other wholesalers selling Disney packages and most people who are booking don't know which one their package is through. I can forsee a lot of problems with this policy.

Of course, my room reservation for my upcoming trip IS through WDTC, so I guess this may benefit me when it comes to CRT if does come to pass. I could also see them exempting Cindy's, though.

I read that when you make a deposit on the package, they give you a number and you use that number when calling Disney Dining...

honeymo78
07-29-2003, 09:59 AM
Just as beatty said. You recieve a confirmation/reservation number when you pay your deposit and you will have to give out that number to the CM when you make reservations for more than 90 days out.

delikado
07-29-2003, 10:09 AM
So can anyone confirm if any PSs already made for AFTER Aug 4th will be considered void?! If so, this is going to be one heck of a mess... :(

Scottwdw
07-29-2003, 10:12 AM
A reply to a previous poster: As in the past, any Priority Seatings already made will not be affected. This was the case when they switched Cindy's to a paid deposit, people who previously got Cindy's without the deposit were not asked to pay it or give up their PS times.

mrsltg
07-29-2003, 10:14 AM
Echoing what others have said, this is not good. I'm usually firmly planted in Disney's camp, but this could be the change that makes me open my eyes to the other vacation destinations out there. Disney charges a premium for their services (one which I am more than happy to pay, BTW), so they need to be careful when they start fiddling with things that effect their repeat customers. The trip on my countdown clock reflects my 4th in 24 months (not as many as some, but more than most). Disney has me booked for 12 nights AKL, part of which is concierge. They are going to get big $$$ from me, the least they can do is let me have a fighting chance at getting character meals for my daughter.

DVC people, I am really sorry. I hope this works out, especially for you guys.

Erin :D

tink2
07-29-2003, 10:30 AM
First of all, I think this is ridiculous!!! I, like most of you, look for ways to save money and a package is usually not included! Packages generally cost a lot more than booking everything yourself and separately.
Now, we booked our room with the Disney Club. In the past, I've heard that a room-only res. through Disney Club was considered a package- will this count?
I, too, am hoping for Cindy's for my 4 year old DD and nieces. I will be very disappointed and angry if we don't even get a shot at it!!!

>>^..^<<
07-29-2003, 11:02 AM
I agree with the principle that onsite guests get first dibs on restaurant reservations ~ I am sure they will have something in place for DCV guests and those who book onsite resorts through other means... (translation - They better!)

I have been hearing how difficult it is to get late PS's lately - Disney Dining saying the last time of the day is 4:30pm or 5:00pm and then closer to the dates suddenly there are suddenly seatings at 7pm etc...

Anyone calling at that early a time is going tohave a really limited selections of seating times.... the park hours are not even in place yet.

Hope it all works out ~ fingers crossed

>>^..^<<

DisneyCP2002
07-29-2003, 11:03 AM
I'm on the fence here with how I feel about this whole situation. I'm happy that I booked with WDTC(even though expensive) and that puts me in the group that will get to make the ressies early BUT I am also very displeased with how they are handling this. I cannot believe that they are excluding those with AP's and DVC ressie's. The ones of you who can afford that should be able to book yours in advance as well. I wish I was one of the lucky who could afford to do this. If it wasn't for my tax refund this trip wouldn't even be happening lol

I really do think Disney should rethink who all can make these early PS's because it should be ALL people who use Disney resorts not just us that use the travel packages. It should be fair to everyone not just a select few. Disney has done some very stupid things recently and this is one of them. Hopefully if enough complain they will either modify this OR do away with it completly.

Now to those who have PS's already before the 4th. I know for a fact that those will still be honored. I thought to ask my travel agent this morning this exact thing. She said that those will not change. She also confirmed that this will be available because she was in a high level meeting on Sunday and they told all of the need to know people then.

I do hope that Disney will change the policy to include those that at least stay on Disney Property as well. I really hate that I have some perks over others and wish I could help some people's dreams come true with CRT that can't get through because they aren't staying with WDTC plan. If there is any way I could I would.

Disneycrazymom
07-29-2003, 11:17 AM
I would not want to be working the phones over the next few weeks, a lot of people are going to be very upset. Sounds like time for another E-Mail campain to me. And oddly this trip I have the FTP booked, but last year and most likely next year that will not be the case. This just is not right for the AP holders and those who have DVC.:)

DrTomorrow
07-29-2003, 11:19 AM
In one respect, I understand why most of you feel that this is unfair and a bad move; many other industries reward regular customers (frequent fliers, casinos, the old 5-punches-gets-a-free-sandwich cards).

However, it seems to me that Disney thinks that it has its fanatics [DISers, DVC, AP] in its pocket, and can count on our $$$ regardless; and I can't say that I disagree. I'm at a loss to think of any other product or service that has this level of devotion - look at some of the countdown clocks; people have trips in 2005 in the planning stages. People are on the phone early in the morning, just to eat with the Princesses. Debates rage on the pros/cons of EMH. Will we devotees of Disney suddenly head to IoA? I think not. We'll grumble, and email, and rail over on the Debate Board, but after all is said and done, one year from now, will this really turn many of you away from Disney? Did the removal of EE turn you off-site?

I too got 'burned' by FTP - I'd just purchased two PAP vouchers in March for planned Oct03/Spring04/Sept04 trips when FPT zinged on the scene. Did I spend less - no, I spent more! I booked an FTP this year, and I'll still be spending a year at WDW starting next year.

Please don't flame, but I am interested in reasoned disagreements and opinions on a "Pixie-Dust Free" analysis of Disney's new tool to promote packages and its effect on the small core of existing fanatics.

Thanks,
Erick

BCV23
07-29-2003, 11:23 AM
If the CRO does completely turn over to WDTC by January than those of us who make AP reservations will end up with the same PS advantages as full packages I think. As someone said if you do room only with WDTC it as a very basic package but still called a package...doesn't it include mini golf or something usually? I think this might be an attempt to make the CRO-WDTC switchover a little less bitter for those of us who hate the idea of WDW getting the interest on the full price starting at 45 days out.

I too hope the plan is fine tuned to not leave out SOG as well as DVC members.

madge
07-29-2003, 11:46 AM
As in the past, any Priority Seatings already made will not be affected. This was the case when they switched Cindy's to a paid deposit, people who previously got Cindy's without the deposit were not asked to pay it or give up their PS times.

ok, so my question doesn't get buried in pages of comments....I call on August 2 for my Oct 1 CRT reservation. Assuming I get it, it's mine. Same with the Crystal Palace reservation I will book if I can't get CRT. THEN....on Monday, August 4 I am eligible to call for any of the restaurants for the rest of my trip (October 4-6)? correct?

I don't think there is going to be an onslaught of people calling on Monday, because other than the message boards/newsgroups, I don't know how well this is going to be publicized.

However, I do have visions of WDTC using this as a perk of booking a travel package.....

SAWYERMAW1
07-29-2003, 11:55 AM
Just talked to Disney Dining. She confirmed this would go into effect on 8/4 as reported but would exclude Cindys.

Miss Jasmine
07-29-2003, 12:02 PM
I wrote an email to Disney about this program being at the expense of loyal Disney guests (AP and DVC). I'll see if I get any response.

inky dinky doo
07-29-2003, 12:06 PM
I am so angry about this change that I can barely find the words to type.

The last time we went to WDW, we had planned our trip for almost a year. (Yes, I'm a Disney nut.) One week before we left, they announced there would be no more early entry mornings. They may also have announced changes in park hours in general, but I'm not quite as clear on that. Anyway, we were devastated. Our touring plans and PSs had been made according to what had been published previously, and now everything was turned upside down with no time for us to adjust.

Our schedule continued to feel "off kilter" throughout the trip. We couldn't get up in the morning and go to the park, and several of our PS times had to be changed at the last minute because, for example, the Coral Reef no longer opened for lunch at the same time.

For the first and only time, I came home from WDW feeling a little disappointed.

Gradually, I got over it, though, and even bought into DVC. Again, the countdown began, this time at 500 or 600 and some days.

Now, here we are at 130 days out and we discover, all of a sudden, that because we bought a piece of the magic, we will not be able to make PSs in 10 days as expected. In fact, there is a good chance that the restaurants and the times we wanted may not be available by the time we're "allowed" to call and "reserve."

Maybe I'll adjust, but right now this feels like the straw that broke this particular camel's back.

Eeyore2U
07-29-2003, 12:16 PM
This was in another thread regarding this topic on the DVC Board.
************************************************** **
I just spoke with Bambi at WDW travel who is aware of this change and was reading off of a paper she just received to me. She is unsure "why we are all upset"

50% of the restaurant capacity will be open to "package guests" at 180 days. 50% of capacity will be released at 90 days. Per Bambi, "our chances are still as good as ever to get a PS". I guess her math skills need some work, in my mind it is as if there is only half the chance.

I am waitig for the supervisor to express my displeasure and be routed to someone who may be able to take our calls and e-mails.

I'll keep you posted
************************************************** **

DisneyFan09
07-29-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by SAWYERMAW1
Just talked to Disney Dining. She confirmed this would go into effect on 8/4 as reported but would exclude Cindys.

So is CRT still 60 days out?

zulaya
07-29-2003, 12:30 PM
So what is exactly the deal with Cindy's? Is it still going to be a 60 day thing? Or is it relegated to the 90 day time?

I think it's very irritating that they KNOW this policy goes into effect on August 4th and won't even release the details to people who want to make their plans in accordance with the new rules.

If you know there is a change, publicize it BEFORE the change goes into effect so we all can plan accordingly.

There...end of that rant for now.

ripleysmom
07-29-2003, 12:38 PM
"I disagree."

Not anywhere in what you posted did you disagree with my post.


"I would agree with you if this was a perk that was going to package members that didn't impact dvc reservers, but this does impact them because it is a limited resource (tables), and those booking a package are at an advantage to DVC members."

And this has what to do with people no longer buying DVC?


"But this PS policy is different because it could potentially impact me. It doesn't just let somebody else get a perk that they paid for, it could potentially mean that it impacts my vacation. It means that using my DVC points is a disadvantage. And that seems a really poor way to treat the people who have made the bigger commitment."

Would this have prevented you from buying DVC?


"I'm all for capitalism, and I agree that it is wdw's right to do what they want, but I think it would be a stupid thing for them to do."

And this disagrees with me how? I did not indicate whether it was smart or stupid. I just said it was their right. Looks like you are agreeing with me on this part.

ashejen
07-29-2003, 12:38 PM
Does anyone have any guesses how this will affect the Fantasmic Dinner Package? Will it be the same 90 day window?


:confused:

Vickery
07-29-2003, 12:51 PM
I have sent emails stating that I'm unhappy that WDW would treat loyal DVC and AP owners this way. I spend just as much, if not more, on my trip without a package. I'm unhappy that I have to wait an extra 90 days to make a PS for Chef Mickey, LTT, and R&C. This is the biggest slap in the face Disney has thrown.

NavyDotz
07-29-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by tink2
Now, we booked our room with the Disney Club. In the past, I've heard that a room-only res. through Disney Club was considered a package- will this count?

The way to tell the difference is if your confirmation number is 8 digits (WDTC) or 12 digits (CRO).

All Disney Club discount rooms are booked as a "package" thru WDTC because they add on passes to the sports complex or something equivalent.

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 01:10 PM
My first reaction is, it's just a meal for heavens sake....

I can see why they're doing it. They want to encourage package sales and they're trying to cut into Universal's business ( you that other park that everyone threatens to go to when Disney ticks them off???)


As far as DVC members go....You knew going into the deal that certain terms and conditions could and almost certainly would change over the years. When DVC first started, room discounts were unheard of. Reservations made under 1 year were tough to find. Now, you can practically reserve the day before you leave and the bargains available are incredible. That certainly makes DVC much less attractive than it used it. But, that's just the way it goes and it's the risk you take when you buy a timeshare.

Still, if you're willing to put the cash up front, over the long term you get an incredible deal. I doubt this will effect one single DVC sale. Besides, if it's really that horrible a change...sell your DVC interest.

As for AP holders (which we are), our savings and perks come in the form of really attractive room discounts, along with other minor dining and tour discounts.

So, why not a perk for that group who is willing to buy higher $$ packages?

Along with wanting to encourage package sales, the trouble they have with dining reservations, particularly CRT may have led to this. People have decided this is such a tough to get reservation that they have 10 people calling on the same day, make multiple reservations then cancel or they go through some broker that grabs up reservations to hand out as they see fit.

Maybe if everyone wouldn't get caught up in the crazed frenzy to get CRT reservations, they wouldn't be so hard to get.

Sorry, I can't get worked up over this one...

holcomb-mania
07-29-2003, 01:31 PM
Anybody interested in helping to answer phones on Monday at WDW-DINE?

Think it will be busy? ;)

Kaitysmom
07-29-2003, 01:38 PM
I booked a room only reservation with WDTC and apparently it is a package - includes free mini golf - not that I asked for this mind you - Half the time I get so confused when booking ressies with WDW. I didn't find the room rate any higher because of this "package." How does everyone else book their room only ressies?

I am waiting for potential discounts, like everyone else. I think the only PS I am wondering about would be CRT as all the other ressies are pretty easy to come by... if CRT isn't included, all the worrying is probably for naught.

DisneyCP2002
07-29-2003, 01:50 PM
I just got back fof the phone with Disney Dining and the lady I spoke to said that they will not have any information on if any of the MK resturants will be participating in this til probably Sunday or Monday. They are still in the discussion phase. She said right now it's more of the ones that are 120 days out are the ones becoming available monday. I think we are all getting different answers and until monday we probably won't have a definite clue as to the complete impact of this decision.

JVL1018
07-29-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl



As far as DVC members go....You knew going into the deal that certain terms and conditions could and almost certainly would change over the years. When DVC first started, room discounts were unheard of. Reservations made under 1 year were tough to find. Now, you can practically reserve the day before you leave and the bargains available are incredible. That certainly makes DVC much less attractive than it used it. But, that's just the way it goes and it's the risk you take when you buy a timeshare.

Still, if you're willing to put the cash up front, over the long term you get an incredible deal. I doubt this will effect one single DVC sale. Besides, if it's really that horrible a change...sell your DVC interest.



It would never affect my decision to purchase DVC, that's true. I don't care how much other people pay for their room,s DVC will always be worth it to me.
I have no problems with other perks non DVC members get, whether it be room discounts or whatnot.
However, this is not just a perk for package guests, this is a detriment to DVC members. Package members get something(PS) we get something taken away(PS availability).
I rarely even make a PS, it's just the point.

Eeyore2U
07-29-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
As far as DVC members go....You knew going into the deal that certain terms and conditions could and almost certainly would change over the years. When DVC first started, room discounts were unheard of. Reservations made under 1 year were tough to find. Now, you can practically reserve the day before you leave and the bargains available are incredible. That certainly makes DVC much less attractive than it used it. But, that's just the way it goes and it's the risk you take when you buy a timeshare.

Still, if you're willing to put the cash up front, over the long term you get an incredible deal. I doubt this will effect one single DVC sale. Besides, if it's really that horrible a change...sell your DVC interest.

So, why not a perk for that group who is willing to buy higher $$ packages?

Sorry, I can't get worked up over this one...

You know PG we usually agree. Not this time. As a DVC member Disney will make more money of off me based on the fact they have my money and can invest it. I think your facts are wrong also. DVC is a thriving portion of the corporation and although there are good deals out there for the casual visitor DVC continues to sell. I'm not sure that this will effect A DVC sale but it will affect where some DVCers eat. Thus a loss of revenue for the restaurants. Also, the "sell your DVC" is childish.

As I stated Disney has more of my money and will have a longer time to invest it.

MY DW made a comment to me about this: If all these people making reservations through Disney travel get all the good times first......then that is absolutely not fair. That would be like being able to put a reserved sign on the sidewalk at 12:00 for a 3:00 parade.

I'm sure you would get worked up about a reserved sign at something you enjoyed for a select few.

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 02:20 PM
However, this is not just a perk for package guests, this is a detriment to DVC members.

True, but it's not something just DVC members are losing nor is it something they were ever guaranteed to start with. I just don't see the particular link between this change and DVC members or AP holders.

I suppose the FTP was to the detriment of DVC and AP guests as well. But, I don't see anything wrong with offering special benefits to other guest. I just don't see where every decision Disney makes has to include the caveat that it can't cost DVC members in any way.

In business, loyalty means $$$'s. I think they're trying to create more loyal guests. They already have the DVC'ers and AP holders.

d-r
07-29-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by ripleysmom
"I disagree."

Not anywhere in what you posted did you disagree with my post.




OK. I'm glad!

JVL1018
07-29-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
True, but it's not something just DVC members are losing nor is it something they were ever guaranteed to start with. I just don't see the particular link between this change and DVC members or AP holders.
.

I didn't mean JUST DVC memebres, but all non package holders.
We were guaranteed a CHANCE to make our reservations just like everyone else..and by changing it we are losing that chance.

I understand about Disney having DVC members and AP holders in their pocket..and I just think it's a crappy thing to do to the most loyal guests Disney has.
I'm confused as to why people can't see that. :confused:

d-r
07-29-2003, 02:38 PM
Let me say some more about the dvc thing. No, I'm not worked up over it, no, I don't think they have changed anything from our understanding when we bought. My point is that it makes it less desirable to book a room using dvc points. Would I not buy DVC? I would seriously have to re-consider adding on points. Why? Because if I decided that we wanted to stay an extra weekend a year or something, then this is a reason why it might be better to just go ahead and reserve a room, rather than buying more points. So yeah, it would make me less likely to add on at saratoga springs. It surely wouldn't encourage me to. It isn't something you lost, it is something that makes dvc points less attractive, if you can't call the same time that people booking through WDTC can. I think that they could make it so that the PS we book through MS could be the same date.

And, yes, I think it is taking some of your best customers for granted - cutting them out of a perk that you offer only to package buyers.

HookdonWDW
07-29-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
I doubt this will effect one single DVC sale.

Well, then you'd be wrong ;) . We have been all set to add on another 100 - 150 points to our contract. We were just waiting until the raise from dh's promotion showed up in our bank account. That'll happen on Friday. With this new wrinkle though, we've decided to wait and see what the final changes end up being. If DVCers aren't included in the ability to book reservations further out, we won't be adding. I don't think that we're the only owners taking a wait and see approach right now. Since add-ons from current owners account for a very significant percentage of DVC sales, this definitely could have an impact - especially since the furvor about SSR doesn't seem to be at the same level as BCVs was when it began selling.

You are right that we won't sell our membership, or stop going to WDW completely, but we're already planning not to buy APs next year and visit HH instead. For the first time in a long time, I have no plans for a visit to WDW after our October trip this year. Since we've averaged 5 trips/year for the past two years, and usually bring other family members/ friends to WDW with us, Disney will have less of our money in their pockets.

I understand that Disney is a business, and needs to have new marketing strategies to entice new customers, but as others have said, you just don't do this at the expense of your loyal customers. You don't see Universal changing their perks to the detriment of their AP Holders or returning customers. I have always seen Disney as a company that sets the bar for other companies in customer service, guest relations and customer satisfaction. I'm not seeing that now, and more than being angry, I'm disappointed.

Hopefully, when the "final" word comes out on the changes, we'll find that Disney Dining has not forgotten those who have been loyal customers regardless of the tourism slump. JMHO.

lulu71
07-29-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
In business, loyalty means $$$'s. I think they're trying to create more loyal guests. They already have the DVC'ers and AP holders.

And do you think it makes good business sense to bite the hand that feeds you?

No offense, but....I guess if one is really looking hard for a way to defend this decision it is possible, but clearly makes for a very weak argument. It makes absolute sense to add perks to try to win loyal customers, but to do that at the expense of your already loyal customers is insanely dumb.

JVL1018
07-29-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl


I suppose the FTP was to the detriment of DVC and AP guests as well. But, I don't see anything wrong with offering special benefits to other guest.
.

Forgot to address this..the FTP was not to the detriment of AP and DVC guests at all..nothing was taken away from us by offering such a great deal.
I have zero rpoblems with ANY discount ANYONE gets..but when it affects my vacation, and when *I* lose something I will be irked that WDW treats their most loyal customers that come back every year like that..whether or not we are a sure thing, it's a sucky thing to do.
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense business wise(although word of mouth is a powerful thing if many people are unhappy), but there's no reason I would have to like it.

Vickery
07-29-2003, 02:49 PM
I suppose that I see this differently. I don't think that giving a privilege to certain groups that are high-rollers and/or repeat performers is out of line. If you want to give DC cardholders 10% off at the DisneyStore, then do it. If you want to give concierge guests two free 4-day hoppers, again, do it. It hasn't taken away anything from me or given them an advantage to a limited commodity.

But, to tell those that have been loyal in the way of APs and DVCs, now you can't compete with those few, who may or may not be as loyal as you have been, is an insult to me.

Many people book a package as a one-time thing. Some are Disney-holics, but are most? Are do the majority book this way once? Then, it's I've been to Disney, it's nice, where do I go next? Do they become Disney fans and continue to book the package or do they become Disney fans, see the package as expensive and learn to book a la carte for the same things at a savings?

Maybe I'm not seeing this clearly - I'm trying to see it unemotionally. I only see it as very unfair right now. Talk about an uneven playing field!

I just think that WDW took away from me - a family of four frequent visitors with APs. (Frequent=several times a year. Far more than the cost of a package. DVC=lots more than the cost of a package.)

I've sent my emails.

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 02:53 PM
the FTP was not to the detriment of AP and DVC guests at all

You should go back and read the posts when the FTP was first announced. It didn't really affect DVC, but there were plenty of AP holders who thought it was terribly unfair that you had to purchase UPH's to get the 7 days for 4 rate.

As someone else posted, perhaps it's better to just wait and see what they actually do before getting too upset about it.

Planogirl
07-29-2003, 02:57 PM
I haven't read through this whole thread just bits and pieces but I wanted to add that it's not just the DVC and AP holders who MAY be affected by this. I'm certainly a loyal customer but I book the room only and purchase hoppers when we visit. We only booked one of the packages before we realized that it was a more expensive way to go. Disney certainly has the right to make more money in any way they see fit but the idea of having to buy a more expensive package doesn't thrill me.

I guess that I don't think that any loyal customers should be shoved to the side or forced to buy something they don't want. But with any luck, it'll never happen.

jennymouse
07-29-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
I doubt this will effect one single DVC sale.

I think you are sooo wrong about everything in your entire post but I can guarantee you that it has lost one sale. In one hour I am due at the closing table in the sale of my "real" home. I had planned to purchase a contract at SSR with a portion of the proceeds by the end of the week. That will definately NOT be happening now. This was to be for my adults only vacations to take in the spa treatments, dine at restaurants my DD & DGD's don't care to go to, etc. When this new dining policy goes into effect, I probably won't be able to get into those restaurants I want to eat at, so half my interest in buying is gone.

I'll keep the points that I have now. I'll take my DD & DGD's to the world once a year, and eat either in our villa, off property or at counter service restaurants where I don't have to have a PS.

I am sooo happy that you're not "worked up" over this.:rolleyes:

zulaya
07-29-2003, 03:12 PM
My problem with this is that it specifically talks about package holders making a deposit. Basically committing to this vacation. Refresh my memory, but don't all cash reservations thru CRO and DC (and WDTC) all require a deposit within like 10 days to keep it?

So basically they want you to commit your money to the vacation in order to have the privilege of making PS 180 days out. Okay, I can understand a company wanting a financial commitment out of visitors and rewarding them for planning ahead. Those people wait until 2 months out to reserve won't have this perk.

So IF this is a money issue, and commitment to vising Disney and staying onsite, why exclude the DVCers who in a lot of cases make their ressies right at that 11 month window, a good 330 days in advance? They already have thousands of dollars from me for my DVC contract - my "deposit" is paid for the next 39 years.

Sorry, just am irked that because we HAVE paid for our accomodations that we are excluded from this.

Believe me...e-mails have been sent to both MS and WDW

Scottwdw
07-29-2003, 03:33 PM
An 'Ohana Character Breakfast PS can be made up to 180 days for WDTC package guests and 90 days for non-WDTC quests in advance.

I had to write this on my web site for my current PS Spotlight. Now tell me what it sounds like to you? I can't wait to see how WDW prints this in their brochures and websites. I bet they have a better way of saying it than I. :rolleyes:

Plus, I have to update all my old PS Spotlights! Ugh!! :mad:

Disneyolic
07-29-2003, 03:48 PM
I understand about Disney having DVC members and AP holders in their pocket..and I just think it's a crappy thing to do to the most loyal guests Disney has.

I am pretty insulted at this statement. Loyalty has nothing to do with owning DVC or APs. Some don't have the money to afford DVC and AP is out of the question for others. If you save and save your butts off just to go to Disney, then that is being pretty loyal.

Now, in the long run, when WDTC totally takes over, it may be that all can book their "rooms only" and it becomes a package, therefore making it possible for all to make PSs in advance. It may be SOL for people going through travel agents, though.

ripleysmom
07-29-2003, 04:02 PM
planogirl is right, everyone who books outside the WDTC system is affected so the AP holders and DVC members should stop feeling sorry for themselves.

Both AP holders and DVC members get good deals. How can anyone say that they are not.

The people who do get the shaft currently are the people who use WDTC. They pay for what everyone on this site can acknowledge is higher pricing than if they were to book directly.

Disney is now trying to attract people to use their travel service. They make a very good profit when people use it. I think that the people who pay more money should get more bang for their buck so I have no problem with it.

Disney will not be losing money from doing this. They will still sell seats for their restaurants. People will still go to WDW.

As far as the people not buying additional DVC add-ons, I stand by what I said. It doesn't really matter if you buy those 100 points or not. Someone will. If you go to stay at HH, have fun. If you exchange to HH someone else will stay at your home resort on your points and they will still make money.

This is the same thing that we went through when Disney did away with early entry and everything else. People had a big fit but did not stop going and this will not stop people from going either.

HookdonWDW
07-29-2003, 04:21 PM
post removed, as I realized I was allowing myself to respond inappropriately...

lulu71
07-29-2003, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by ripleysmom
The people who do get the shaft currently are the people who use WDTC. They pay for what everyone on this site can acknowledge is higher pricing than if they were to book directly.


It takes time and energy to research the most cost-effective way to travel to Disney. I don't think these folks should get a pity party because they don't do their research.

From a business perspective, I can see why Disney would want to offer perks to entice folks to book a package and I'm all for it...just not to the detriment of other loyal customers, be it DVC members, AP holders, room only bookers, etc.

DebbieB
07-29-2003, 04:32 PM
If the CRO does completely turn over to WDTC by January than those of us who make AP reservations will end up with the same PS advantages as full packages I think

But how often are AP rates announced more than 90 days ahead to be included in the extra time? 8/24 is less than a month away and still no AP rates. My question is what happens if you book a package and make PS's and then switch to an AP rate, do they cancel the PS's you made since your reservation may have to be cancelled and rebooked?

Someone compared this to FTP as not a detriment. FTP doesn't hurt AP or DVC members other than the fact that the parks maybe a little more crowded because of the deal. But it will effect AP or DVC members when they go to make PS at 90 days and all the good times are gone.

BCV23
07-29-2003, 05:01 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DebbieB
[B]But how often are AP rates announced more than 90 days ahead to be included in the extra time? 8/24 is less than a month away and still no AP rates. My question is what happens if you book a package and make PS's and then switch to an AP rate, do they cancel the PS's you made since your reservation may have to be cancelled and rebooked?

I usually book a room only reservation first, make my PSs and then change to an AP rate when they are released. I've always kept all PSs with no problem at all.

And your point about AP rates not being released actually speaks to the fact that this won't matter to AP holders at least if they plan ahead. If they don't plan ahead it's a moot point anyway. But if you do plan ahead 120 days you usually can't get an AP rate anyway. So just book a room only and wait. The next set of rates are apparently only good for what... 38 days? And as you pointed out they're still not even out.

I do much prefer to book through CRO, though but again it sounds like those days may be coming to an end.

I do hope the thing is tweaked so that DVC (I qualify there too) and SOG folks aren't left out. If they are included and if CRO ends then it will simply be on-site guests at 180, off-site at 90. At least I think?:D

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 05:01 PM
Loyalty has nothing to do with owning DVC or APs. Some don't have the money to afford DVC and AP is out of the question for others. If you save and save your butts off just to go to Disney, then that is being pretty loyal.

Exactly!

Why some DVC members /AP holders seem to think that they are in a special class of loyalty that no one else can compare to is beyond me, but it isn't true.

If being able to make ps arrangements as quick or quicker than anyone else is that important to you, don't add on points. If it really bothers you, sell the timeshare. Frankly, I'm not interested in DVC, but if I were I can't imagine that a character breakfast would be the make or break reasoning behind my purchase.



I don't think these folks should get a pity party because they don't do their research.


And I don't think the DVC or AP holders should get a pity party because they aren't getting an advantage someone else might.


Oh yeah.....and everything Ripleysmom said too!

Rock'n Robin
07-29-2003, 05:12 PM
I hardly ever look at this board, but I was interested in this new policy and read the entire thread....it seems to me that there is some DVC/non-DVC snippiness going on.
I do own DVC--we will not go back to WDW until 2005 and all of this may be blown over. I do see the detriment--if we call at 90 days out and can only get Chef Mickey's before 5 or after 8 because "50% of the PSs are gone to WDTC guests", who wants to go there at those times?
It leaves us with the icky restaurants, which vary by person (I would rather jump off a bridge than eat at Marrakesh) or our trusty kitchenette in our roomy DVC rooms.
Again, I'm hoping that by 2005 it will all blow over, like when early entry was replaced by character caravan. It may take time, but it blows over.
In the meantime, if you don't like the policy let someone know about it, but remember we are all supposed to be friendly here.
Robin M.

lulu71
07-29-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Rock'n Robin
I hardly ever look at this board, but I was interested in this new policy and read the entire thread....it seems to me that there is some DVC/non-DVC snippiness going on.
I do own DVC--we will not go back to WDW until 2005 and all of this may be blown over. I do see the detriment--if we call at 90 days out and can only get Chef Mickey's before 5 or after 8 because "50% of the PSs are gone to WDTC guests", who wants to go there at those times?
It leaves us with the icky restaurants, which vary by person (I would rather jump off a bridge than eat at Marrakesh) or our trusty kitchenette in our roomy DVC rooms.
Again, I'm hoping that by 2005 it will all blow over, like when early entry was replaced by character caravan. It may take time, but it blows over.
In the meantime, if you don't like the policy let someone know about it, but remember we are all supposed to be friendly here.
Robin M.

ITA Robin. I'm also a DVC member (for barely a month, BTW) and believe me, I've voiced my opinion to the powers that be. It's such a shame when you want to vent about a policy that DIRECTLY affects you, you get a bunch of snarkiness. Now I remember why I mostly lurk. ;)

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 05:32 PM
post removed, as I realized I was allowing myself to respond inappropriately...

Me too...

I'll worry about it when I find out I really need to worry about it.

mickeysaver
07-29-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by SAWYERMAW1
Just talked to Disney Dining. She confirmed this would go into effect on 8/4 as reported but would exclude Cindys.

I called them myself and spoke with a lady named Asia. She said she knew nothing of any changes. She said they had no staff meetings planned to discuss any changes. Who knows at this point??!?! :confused: Mickey

lulu71
07-29-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
Excuse me, but if that's even partially directed to me, I take offense. First off, I am just as DIRECTLY affected as anyone else. I have PAP's. Secondly, I have to wonder just where the "snarkiness" and "snippyness" is really coming from. Until the last 2 posts from DVC members, I didn't see anything but a discussion with differing opinons going on. There certainly had been no negative characterizations of other's posts until now.


Peachgirl,
Please do not get so defensive. I'm sorry if you took this the wrong way and I am sincerely not trying to make trouble. I was only responding to what I felt was a little more "snarky" responses than just disagreeing. I can speak for myself as a DVC member who just bought my first contract a month ago and my second contract on Friday that I'm kind of feeling ripped off by the new policy. I feel that way and wanted to express it. Then came the responses that are in the spirit of DVCers feeling sorry for themselves, sell your contract, etc. I'm not so sure that's exactly friendly, in my book.

I'm not trying to get into a debate, nastiness, etc. I guess from fellow Disney fans I expect a little more friendliness. If this is what characterizes a debate here, maybe I'm a little too thin-skinned for it. As I said...back to lurking.

JVL1018
07-29-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
You should go back and read the posts when the FTP was first announced. It didn't really affect DVC, but there were plenty of AP holders who thought it was terribly unfair that you had to purchase UPH's to get the 7 days for 4 rate.

I can only speak for myself and *I* was never unhappy about people getting good deals with the FTP. If someone else was, that's their issue.

peachgirl
07-29-2003, 05:54 PM
Please do not get so defensive.

As you can see, I deleted my response because I could see where this was leading.

Since I don't see anything wrong with what is supposedly going to happen, I think I'll leave this thread to those that do.

goofy4tink
07-29-2003, 05:56 PM
Wow. I had something really relevant to say about 3 pages back but now, for the life of me, I can't remember what it was!!! Anyway. My first trip to WDW in '99 I knew no better. I used a TA. I asked the TA to include CRT for my dd's 6 b-day. Well, she called me 5 days after the 60 day mark had passed and told me she couldn't get it! Well, duh. Now, after finding these terrific boards, I plan all my stuff myself. Last trip down, booked room only, bought hopper passes and booked my ps's. For my trip in 3 weeks, did the same thing. I just hadn't gotten around to passes yet when FTP came along. So of course I jumped on that puppy! Thank heaven I hadn't bought my passes yet.
So, will this possible change impact my future plans?? Maybe. We probably just wouldn't eat at any of the places we have in the past. Hopefully, Disney will come up with something that will enable those with AP's and DVC members to partake also. We sure don't need anything else to bicker about, do we. I just don't think that anyone is more 'entitled' to eating at the nicer places than someone else. Am I right in thinking it will be basically only the park restaurants that will be impacted? Aren't the resorts and WS places already 120 days out?

JVL1018
07-29-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by peachgirl
Exactly!

Why some DVC members /AP holders seem to think that they are in a special class of loyalty that no one else can compare to is beyond me, but it isn't true.


Ok, maybe "loyal" wasn't the right word..how about a guaranteed repeat customer. It's not that I think I am better then anyother guest AT ALL!!!! But it is a special "class" regarding WDW knowing they've GOT us, not that we're better.
It has nothing to do with money, I bought DVC because it was more cost effective for soemone like me who vacations there 1-2 a year, not b/c I had alot of money to spend.
Like I said before I am 100% happy with my DVC and would never sell it. I don't know why anyone would make the leap from me not being happy about a newly implemented service to me not liking my timeshare.
This is not a huge deal to me(though the amount of time I am spending answering posts makes it seem otherwise LOL)..I just think it shouldn't be done and am expressing my thoughts on the matter. I don't know if I mentioned it here, but I maybe make 2 PS's a trip and go in the off season where they aren't really necessary, so it's not so much a personal thing as that i just don't think it's the right thing to do.
I used the example of DVC members and AP holders because that's what i am. I can't speak for anyone but myself.

mazzarafe
07-29-2003, 06:03 PM
I have a hold right now on a room at CR with the AAA discount because when I called DC the rate was not available. I too am hoping for AP rates and will buy a pass if they get released. Now I have 14 days to make my deposit of $225 for 1 night at the CR. People who book the room only package only pay $100 or $200 deposit in which I'm giving Disney more money to hold my room. At the 180 day mark which I'm way past now I cannot make ps's because I do not have a package, but I've paid more money.

I understand the DVC and AP holders getting upset as I am too as this is very unfair playing field for ps's. Discounts are totally different. It all depends on how Disney is doing and when you are going as to when/if they offer them. At least with ps's everyone was equal. Though I've felt for a while that it should have been an onsite perk, this move just blows my mind. Maybe when Disney calls and writes back to me they can explain to my 2 DD's why it may be impossible for their mother to get them in to have breakfast at the castle because I didn't book a package that I would have to pay for 2 days of passes we cannot use.

MickeyCrazed
07-29-2003, 06:21 PM
I am a DVC member and at the risk of being flamed, I am going to add my 2 cents....
I don't consider DVC members in a different class than others.
I do, however, feel that the new rules (if they are enforced as speculated) are unfair to DVC members. Here is my reasoning:
I spent a lot of money to purchase a right to vacation at WDW for the next 39 years.
I also committed to paying annual dues for the next 39 years to maintain the resorts that I vacation in. This money is paid directly to Disney on a montly basis.
Why shouldn't I receive the same perks as someone booking a package through WDTC?
Maybe I am bias in my opinions.
If you think so, feel free to point out why. But please don't be mean! :D

dvcmember
07-29-2003, 06:50 PM
I have to agree completely with mickey crazed. Well said again it seems that DVC members are second class. I would think that the fairest thing is to allow all onsite guests the same booking dates-- Barb

DebbieB
07-29-2003, 06:54 PM
I agree the most fair thing would be allow it for all on site guests. No matter how you are paying for it, you are occupying a WDW resort room. That deserves a special priority over offsite.

cinmell
07-29-2003, 06:55 PM
I read somewhere that CRT is not included but I don't know if that's correct. Also, I was on the phone with a CM today making a PS for September and I asked about this new policy out of curiosity. She had no idea and hadn't heard of it. She asked if I had been reading some kind of Disney related websites :rolleyes: and I said yes. She said only believe what is on the official Walt Disney website but I've found deb's page to be pretty reliable in the past so I'm guessing the CM just didn't know about it yet.

Disneyolic
07-29-2003, 06:56 PM
I totally agree that all on-site guest should have the advantage of making PSs. I just had a problem with the "loyalty" issue.

This has gotten way out of hand. I think we should end the debate nastiness now.

tiggerzpalz
07-29-2003, 07:24 PM
I agree completely with Mickeycrazed. We may not be booking with the travel company but we are already paying dues, and payments. I do not think anyone asked for pity but were simply pointing out that the new policy makes no sense. It seems a few people on this board have decided to take aim for reasons I am unsure of. I think people were simply venting. Cut them some slack.

Peachgirl - You keep saying that you don't really care about DVC and that you will wait to see what happens but yet you seem eager to rip into anyone with a different opinion. Nobody ever said that DVC members were in a different class I believe all that they were saying was that for the tens of thousands of dollars they are investing in Disney they do not understand why they are being excluded. They are after all investing in vacations as well. They are voicing an opinion and an issue they have. I hope that if you ever have to vent about anything that disappointed or bothered you when dealing with Disney that people are nicer to you than you have been to anyone here.

crisi
07-29-2003, 07:44 PM
They used to have the onsite guest rule. I've been anticipating them putting it back to fill their hotels for a few years now.

However, Florida residents often "day trip." Shouldn't they - especially Florida AP holders, also have some ability to make PSs.

honeymo78
07-29-2003, 07:47 PM
Here's my two cents - AP holders should be able to take advantage of the 180 days since CRO is combining with WDTC so therefore all "room only" packages will be booked with a paid deposit.

When you decide to use your DVC points don't you have to call to make the reservation and are given a confirmation number. I don't know much about the process but I'm sure you have to make some type of reservation. If it's through CRO/WDTC you may get that same confirmation number which I think you would be able to use when you call for a PS.

While I don't doubt that a new policy will be in effect next week it might be a good idea to wait until disney operators have the full info before we all get upset b/c AP or DVC can't take advantage of the new program. You won't know if your confirmation number will allow you to make a PS until you actually call next week and try to make one. Then, and only then should people get upset.

Pumbaa_
07-29-2003, 07:50 PM
This new policy will just encourage me to spend less at the nicer restaurants if I cannot get the ps I want. I am a dvc member and AP holder who goes 3 or 4 times a year. I am sure there are many in the silent majority who will let their wallets do their talking for them

Scottwdw
07-29-2003, 08:49 PM
From my newsletter. I got this info just before I was ready to send it out so I couldn't confirm it but, if true, should solve the DVC and AP complaints:

************************************************** ***
NEW INFO: Looks like anybody booked at a WDW Resort will be
able to call 180 days in advance. This is not fully confirmed
yet so stay tuned!!!!! So, this should cover the above groups
I just mentioned but again, this is not confirmed.
************************************************** ***

This includes room only reservations but you still will have to have a deposit down and have your reservation number with you when you book.

Plus, only 50% of the space will be made available at 180 days with the rest opening up at 90 days.

zulaya
07-29-2003, 08:53 PM
Just to clarify...DVC members don't make reservations thru CRO or WDTC. We have our own reservations center with Member Services.

BCV23
07-29-2003, 08:54 PM
Good and sensible news! Thanks for posting Scott.

tithonia88
07-29-2003, 08:56 PM
Hi Friends,

Just two things.

First, I also called and talked at length to someone at Disney Dining. He was indeed very aware of the changes that are about to occur. I asked specifically about CRT and he said that he thought that it was included.... Given what I have read on this post, I think that I will be checking again come Sunday to see what the real story is... I am just thinking all of it is too new right now.

Second. Wow, I am just realizing what a huge impact this is going to have on people staying off-site. It will be extremely difficult to get specific Disney Dining PS's if you are not staying at a Disney property. Disney is really "clamping down" on their marketing approach. They must think that people will stay on-site just to be able to easily make the dining reservations that they want... I know in future trips I will definitely take that into consideration. I have a friend that is going in January with lots of extended family. They are staying at a nice Marriott time share to accomodate all of the family. She wants me to help her get her dining set up.... Whoa! She just may not have a chance at any popular dining locations. If Disney finds a "hook" to get more people to stay at their resorts, we may not see discount codes.... Hmmmmm... kind of like what we are facing right now (although I really doubt this will have that much impact in the short term). Lots of changes.

Hang in there everybody!!!

Tithonia

BCV23
07-29-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by zulaya
Just to clarify...DVC members don't make reservations thru CRO or WDTC. We have our own reservations center with Member Services.

But we do have confirmation numbers and our reservations are at WDW resorts albeit "Home away from Home" resorts.

honeymo78
07-29-2003, 09:17 PM
Thanks zulaya and bcv - I wasn't really sure how that worked since i'm hot a DVC member. Hopefully Scott's news is true and as long as you have that reservation/confirmation from onsite with deposit (or not for DVC) everyone staying onsite should be happy.

I'm not trying to be insensitive but I can't really feel sorry for off site guests losing out on the PS's. That is just another perk for on site guests. Disney really wants to keep people inside the magic spending all their time and money in the parks/resorts and this is just another incentive like EMH. While the All Star resorts aren't as cheap as some offsite hotels, the prices are still great for onsite and allow more families onsite access. I remember when there were no value resorts and you had to pay either deluxe or moderate rates.
I'm also not sure that offsite guests won't be able to get PS's except for the really popular stuff like CRT, however many onsite guests won't get it either. So many people have stories about getting a PS a few weeks in advance or even days in advance. I know those all can't be cancellations.

Reflection
07-29-2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by Lewisc
....or charging an advance deposit for PS)

If WDW decides to charge an advance deposit for a PS, then the PS actually becomes a confirmed reservation does it not?

mickeysaver
07-29-2003, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Scottwdw
NEW INFO: Looks like anybody booked at a WDW Resort will be
able to call 180 days in advance. This is not fully confirmed
yet so stay tuned!!!!! So, this should cover the above groups
I just mentioned but again, this is not confirmed.

Thanks Scott! This makes much more sense to me. Mickey

jwfla422
07-29-2003, 09:46 PM
Well I guess those of us who support WDW on a regular basis can be pretty annoyed with this new policy.

As FL residents and AP holders we never do packages, why should we??? So, we're being punished for the discounts we get by being FL residents or AP holders?? Doesn't make sense.

I will be sure to send guest services an email to voice my feedback on this one.

It won't have much affect unless they promote it as a perk to purchasing a package through the travel company. But, then why would they change the policies if they weren't going to promote it as a perk??

I just think this is a real blow to the DVCers, AP holders and FL residents who consistently support WDW especially during it's "tough" times!

Hopefully we don't have all the info straight yet.

psimon
07-29-2003, 09:58 PM
Can anyone suggest an email address so I can express my opinions regarding this new policy?

Many thanks!

Paul

jwfla422
07-29-2003, 10:06 PM
WDW.Guest.Communications@disneyworld.com

I've used that address to send comments, good and bad. I've ALWAYS gotten a phone call responding to each e-mail I ever sent.

truescorp
07-29-2003, 10:07 PM
With the breakdown now at only 180 days and 90 days, nothing in between, does that mean you can make PS for Magic Kingdom restaurants BEFORE the 60 day mark if you are a non-package guess?? I made PS's for all other restaurants already that were marked for 120 days, but the CRO told me that I couldn't make Magic Kingdom ressies until August 24th. Would that mean I could make them now??? If anyone knows, please respond as it is too late to contact Disney and I would be on the phone tomorrow if that is true. Thanks.

ripleysmom
07-29-2003, 10:21 PM
"It takes time and energy to research the most cost-effective way to travel to Disney. I don't think these folks should get a pity party because they don't do their research."

Who said anything about having a pity party for them?


I would hate to take away from the pity party that everyone else seems to be enjoying.

And FWIW, I AM a DVC owner.

faithinkarma
07-29-2003, 11:22 PM
Will this change my mind about buying a DVC? Not on its own. But it is one more reason added to a growing pile.

I was close to signing last Feb. But a nagging voice kept telling me that I was trying to buy into a Disney that had changed significantly.

I decided to wait a while, make another trip and see how things were. Since then, not one thing has happened that made me lean closer to buying. And way too many things have pushed me in the other direction.

There is a whole big world out there to explore. And I am thinking it is time I took the money I have cheerfully poured into Disney and have some adventures elsewhere.

I can hardly believe I am saying all this. But Disney has pushed me over the edge.

DisneyFan09
07-29-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by cinmell
I read somewhere that CRT is not included but I don't know if that's correct. Also, I was on the phone with a CM today making a PS for September and I asked about this new policy out of curiosity. She had no idea and hadn't heard of it. She asked if I had been reading some kind of Disney related websites :rolleyes: and I said yes. She said only believe what is on the official Walt Disney website but I've found deb's page to be pretty reliable in the past so I'm guessing the CM just didn't know about it yet.

I talked to a CM today too that said the exact same thing!! Well, almost. She actually said that she had read something about the new policy but didn't have detailed information. But the stuff about the Disney related website and only believe what you read on official sites blah blah blah is exactly the same. Oh ya, then she burped!! I'm not kidding, she burped really loud and didn't even say excuse me!! :eek:

FriendsOfEeyore
07-30-2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by truescorp
... but the CRO told me that I couldn't make Magic Kingdom ressies until August 24th. Would that mean I could make them now??? If anyone knows, please respond as it is too late to contact Disney and I would be on the phone tomorrow if that is true. Thanks.

Actually no. If this policy does go into effect next Modnay, you will be able to call then. Eventhough you would be inside the 90 day window, the new policy (if it actually happens) will take effect Monday, august 4th.

Minniespal
07-30-2003, 04:32 AM
I wonder if people not booking a package with the Disney Travel Company will just make their ps when they get to the parks?

WebmasterPenny
07-30-2003, 06:46 AM
Well, I've heard too that this may be an on-site perk rather than just a package perk (though of course, I am no wiser than anyone else about this) - but if that is the case then I don't see how you can have the deposit required and still include DVC members as no money changes hands with those reservations.

Time will tell - we'll just have to be patient :)

susy
07-30-2003, 07:01 AM
I brought this up on the other thread, but maybe someone who's been following this one can tell me if this has been addressed. What about the Disney Dining Experience? It costs $75 and gives FL residents 20% off most sit-down rest. We were going to buy it this year, but now I don't know. I don't want to waste the money if I can't get the rest. I want or the times I want. Will we all be forced to at at 9pm?

elgerber
07-30-2003, 07:14 AM
If it does indeed end up including all on-site guests, can you imagine the phone lines on Monday morning? Any of us going in the next 6 months would be able to call for all of our PS's??? Wouldn't want to be working the phones that day.

Erika

zulaya
07-30-2003, 07:19 AM
Well I can tell you that since we won't know what the policy is going to be, I am going to make an assumption and call for Cindy's for my next trip in November and see what happens. I anticipate a lonnnnnnng wait on the phone, but I think we'll see what they say when I get a live person.

becka
07-30-2003, 07:30 AM
I hope it is for all on-site guests rather than just those with a package.

However, if it is for all on-site guests I guess I had better make my reservation because my 180 days will be coming up in about a week! :eek: I thought I had more time to plan!!!

Puffy2
07-30-2003, 08:12 AM
There is more info on www.orlandotripplanner.com on the restaurants and resorts message board. Apparently disney is still working on this policy and they may do something that includes DVC, AP holders and the like. I wouldn't panic until all the facts are out - but it doesn't look good for us "savers".

Certifiable WDW Nut
07-30-2003, 08:18 AM
Where are people sending their emails to "complain" about the new PS policy? I know it's not official, but I would like to give them my 2 cents before it becomes official. I plan on reminding/educating them a little bit about the lifetime value of customers such as annual passholders and DVC members. I'm both and figure over the next 39 years, I would spend in the hundreds of thousands of dollars at WDW. Seems that should be part of their analysis in making this decision. I really don't think it's fair, that as such high value customers, we should not have access to such special events as Cinderalla's breakfast and Illuminations cruises. I agree with many others that we probably won't be affected as much in making reservations for other events.

Honestly, once we arrive on property we never leave. We eat almost all meals out and, in general, spend a tremendous amount of money. On my last annual pass, I had 31 park entrances over the course of a year - and I live in Virginia!!!

Will I still come to WDW if they make this change - yes. Will I eat 100% of my meals on property - no. Will my lifetime value as a customer to WDW decline - most definitely.

crisi
07-30-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Disneymad
but if that is the case then I don't see how you can have the deposit required and still include DVC members as no money changes hands with those reservations.
[/B]

Money does change hands - the ultimate deposit of $12,000+ (currently) when you buy in and then a minimum of around $600 a year for dues (about $4 a point for each point you own). Money just doesn't change hands at the point in time the reservation is made.

(This is not meant to sound snotty or snobbish - as in ha ha, DVC members have money to give to Disney up front - and because we have a lot of money we should get treated better. Just to clarify that money has changed hands between DVC members and Disney and continues to do so every year).

Lewisc
07-30-2003, 08:38 AM
Right now the choice PS go to people who are willing and able to set up a tickler file and make an early am phone call. Not necessarily fair to people in different time zones or whose work schedule doesn't permit phone calls at that time. Currently people making PS don't have to be staying on Disney property, don't have to have firm trip plans and (for the most part) don't have any cancellation penalties or depost requirements.

It certainly makes sense to me if Disney wants to allocate SOME of the restaurant tables to people who don't do all their own planning and want to book a package. I think a person booking a package (hotel, tickets and one of the meal packages) certainly has a right to expect they'll be able to get reasonable PS.

Someone recently posted a survey they completed regarding a few new meal plans disney was considering. I'd have no trouble giving some REASONABLE extra consideration to guests booking these plans.

Scottwdw
07-30-2003, 08:38 AM
I have summarized all the information I could confirm about the upcoming PS changes on my website here: New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

As I was told..."this is all subject to change without notice." :teeth:

Eeyore2U
07-30-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Disneymad
Well, I've heard too that this may be an on-site perk rather than just a package perk (though of course, I am no wiser than anyone else about this) - but if that is the case then I don't see how you can have the deposit required and still include DVC members as no money changes hands with those reservations.

Time will tell - we'll just have to be patient :)

From what I have read on other threads, the key will be a confirmation number that DVC Members get like any other onsite guest.

MicheleC
07-30-2003, 09:26 AM
Wow! Reading through all these pages has made me late! Just wanted to let you know I spoke with Disney Dining this morning, I was working on some of my Epcot choices for my October trip. I asked the CM about the new policy since I was reading it at the time. She said that it is for pkg. holders 180 days and non-pkg holders 90 days. I asked about CRT and she said it is included and that I can call as of August 4 for my October trip. She also said my current priority seatings that I made for this trip will be upheld. I guess I'll wait and see if she was correct so I know whether to try to call for Cindy's on Monday.

WebmasterPenny
07-30-2003, 10:00 AM
Yes Crisi, I'm aware money does change hands with DVC - I am a DVC member myself :)

However, the initial outlay is in exchange for points not directly for a room, and the $600 a year is for maintenance - so you aren't buying anything with that money per se.

My point was that I can reserve a room thru DVC but I've not actually paid for it yet - that will only come when I actually stay in the room and they deduct the points from my account. Exactly the same as RO reservation with no cash deposit. If DVC bookings was to be comparable to paying a cash deposit, then they would have to deduct a rooms worth of points at the time of booking.

Yes Mitch, I'd get my confirmation number, I know that - I've never booked room only though...if you don't pay a deposit, don't you still get a confirmation number? I assumed you did - in which case the confirmation number wouldn't be enough if they are saying to qualify, a deposit needs to have been paid. If a deposit isn't needed, just the onsite reservation - then it's not a problem :)

I think I worded my earlier post badly, LOL

HookdonWDW
07-30-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Disneymad
My point was that I can reserve a room thru DVC but I've not actually paid for it yet - that will only come when I actually stay in the room and they deduct the points from my account. Exactly the same as RO reservation with no cash deposit. If DVC bookings was to be comparable to paying a cash deposit, then they would have to deduct a rooms worth of points at the time of booking.


Penny,

I guess this is all in how you look at it. As soon as I call MS's, they deduct the points from my account. The points are now considered used, and if I ask for my account balance, it won't include any points that are already allocated. If I were to cancel that reservation, those points will be credited back to my account... just like someone who has a reservation through CRO/WDTC receives a refund in the form of a check or credit to their charge account. If you request a print out of your points balance, you'll see the credits back and forth if you've ever cancelled a reservation... it's one of the things that makes those things so blasted hard to follow
:p

WebmasterPenny
07-30-2003, 10:44 AM
Really? Thanks Hooked - I didn't realise that they physically deducted all the points when you reserve a room - I've never had to request a point statement and unfortunately I never have enough trips going on at the same time that I can't remember it all in my head!

Now let that all be a lesson to you in what happens when you just assume something ;)

beattyfamily
07-30-2003, 11:16 AM
So how many people who aren't sure which catagory they fall in and have a trip less than 180 days but more than 90 days are going to call Monday and try and get CRT????????

I don't know what to do. I am a DVC member with a trip in 121 days and was going to call Saturday for Chef Mickey's and next Tuesday for Storybook Princess (120 mark) but now I'm not certain I can call for Storybook because I think I'll probably be in the 90 day bracket! I'm SO confused....like everyone else is!

The dining line will be SO crazy on Monday!!

elgerber
07-30-2003, 11:33 AM
BeattyFamily,

Count me in that group. My 120 mark for my trip starts next Friday. I am not even sure yet if we want to do CRT, but if DVC members are included, I now only have a couple days to decide, instead of a couple of months. Hmmm, what to do, what to do.

Erika

lauraljp
07-30-2003, 11:45 AM
We will be within 90 days of the beginning of our trip on Monday, but ideally want to do CRT on 11/5. We will not be within 90 days for that date.

I will be calling Monday to see if we can get in 11/1 as option two, but I would be thrilled to get the 11/5 instead!

I am just wondering how long we will have to be on hold???!!!


Laura

Hnymoon@Dixie
07-30-2003, 11:57 AM
They have soo many rules, twists, turns & the like! How is one to navigate! UUUGGGHHH!

{taking a deep breath}:mad:

truescorp
07-30-2003, 12:04 PM
For CRT ressies for October. I guess it wont pay to call at 6:55am, huh?

zulaya
07-30-2003, 12:08 PM
I'm calling on Monday for November 16 for CRT. I'll be at 102 days then. We'll see what happens. Thankfully, I can sit down here at my desk, keep the speaker phone going and DIS at that same time at 6am central time.

BCV23
07-30-2003, 12:44 PM
I'm in the <180,>90 group too. About 110 right now. CRO and DVC reservations. IF we're included, I'll be calling later on Monday or Tuesday. If I was trying to get CRT breakfast, I'm sure I'd be calling first thing but the only PSs I still need to make are for MK meals and Browm Derby for dinner. I don't think they'll be a big problem getting those.

I did call a few minutes ago to add two PSs and the gentleman who helped me said there was still no official word on whether the new policy would include those of us with WDW reservations but not through WDTC but he thought it would include us. Don't remember his exact words so don't want to try to quote him. He did say that they (Disney Dining CMs) didn't have official word yet.

Scottwdw
07-30-2003, 01:00 PM
Here's the email to use for contacting WDW Guest Relations: WDW.Guest.Communications@disney.com

Just be polite and professional but clear on your thoughts about the proposed new PS policy. We still have a couple of days to voice our concerns.

jacksonsmom
07-30-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by beattyfamily
So how many people who aren't sure which catagory they fall in and have a trip less than 180 days but more than 90 days are going to call Monday and try and get CRT????????


I am in that group too! I have been following this thread, trying to make sense of everything.
I am currently booked through WDTC with a Disney Club code. We have APs so we are only have a "room only".

I am not sure to call on Monday morning or not (I can just imagine the WAIT!:rolleyes: ) There are only 3 character meals I am after, but one of them is CRT. I REALLY want that one BAD since last month we had to CANCEL ours because my son got sick :(

I wish Disney would give us more info so I know what to do on Monday!

SnowWhiteIsDreaming
07-30-2003, 01:20 PM
I was supposed to call for CRT on Aug 8th; now I have to scramble like the rest of you and try on Aug 4th. I expect to be on hold a good long time. I just hope my ear can take the 'phone pressure'. :( I'll be making other PS's also (CP...).

Good luck to one and all!!!!
-karen

Kaitysmom
07-30-2003, 01:44 PM
Wow - so many are worried about this and I wonder if it is really that big of a deal. It looks like the debate board. Sure, some of the PS may be gone before you try to make yours. I like planning out my days too, but geez, just because I can't get a PS doesn't necessarily mean I won't get into a restaurant (other than CRT which claims no walk ups accepted) I have been told that all PS are gone and then walked into the restaurant and gotten seated within 5 minutes. Correct me if I am wrong, but not all of the seats are booked on the PS system anyways...

I agree that the new plan seems to neglect other forms of patrons, other than pkg buyers. Don't forget, AP holders get more benefits (less than before) but most amortize the cost of their tickets over one or more trips, or save so much on their rooms that they pay for themselves. Being an AP holder previously, this is why I bought the APs. I always thought that the admissions savings alone was enough of an incentive. I can appreciate the AP and DVC customer loyalty, but I don't understand how they feel more important than the one time visitors. I do believe that all WDW resort guests should be treated equally.

I am only upset about the "principle of the thing." Perhaps there are more tactful ways for WDW to do things, but then again, to be fair to WDW, nothing "official" has been announced. Perhaps the business side of Disney is just showing too much these days and we all expect the worst. Each new announcement seems to compound the dissatisfaction.

Now, to get really flamed, how is this much different than concierge guests getting PS reservations before they are released to non-concierge guests... Sure, they pay extra for the service, but is this much different? Isn't that why CRT is sold out at 7:01 every day?

I think that everyone should try to keep this in perspective. I am ready to be flamed now - ;)

Donalds_best_pal
07-30-2003, 01:48 PM
Disney Dining said that as long as you have booked reservation even if its DVC you can book 180 days in advance. I will be calling august 4th like everyone else.
Matt

beattyfamily
07-30-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Kaitysmom
I can appreciate the AP and DVC customer loyalty, but I don't understand how they feel more important than the one time visitors.

I do believe that all WDW resort guests should be treated equally.

I disagree with the first sentance...I don't see AP and DVC people saying they "feel more important than the one time visitors". I do see them upset if they are not part of the 180 day group and with GOOD reason. All I see is them voicing their opinions on the matter. They are confused and worried. I don't see how that is equal to them feeling more important than anyone else.

I do agree with your second sentance though.

Kaitysmom
07-30-2003, 02:04 PM
I apologize - I have seen some posts at other times implying that Disney should be more worried about pleasing DVC and AP guests. No offense intended.

mazzarafe
07-30-2003, 02:49 PM
ok-I'm really bummed. I just spent 15-20 minutes writing a long email to Disney thru the link that Scott posted and the email came back to me saying that Disney is updating their email system and it check to be sure the address is still correct. Anyone else try the link and get the same message or do you think they stopped emails from getting to them because they are swamped?

UGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Dixie Luvr 98
07-30-2003, 03:23 PM
OK, what happens if I book a room-only package with DTC and am able to book PS's for our Thanksgiving trip. If AP rates come out and I switch over, do I lose my PS's? I am sooo confused:crazy:

figmentvi
07-30-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by mazzarafe
ok-I'm really bummed. I just spent 15-20 minutes writing a long email to Disney thru the link that Scott posted and the email came back to me saying that Disney is updating their email system and it check to be sure the address is still correct. Anyone else try the link and get the same message or do you think they stopped emails from getting to them because they are swamped?

UGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:
I sent my e-mail using that link about two hours ago and it looks like it went through just fine. Hmmmm.....maybe they did get swamped.....curious.

tink2
07-30-2003, 03:42 PM
I just called disney dining and spoke with a very nice cast member. She read something to me they are supposed to read in response to the changes- it's a rumor, check the official website for official info....blah,blah,blah.
She did tell me changes would be made but could not tell me specifics. She said hopefully by Sat. or Sun. they would be allowed to tell specifics.
I told her we had res. through disney club for room only, she said this is considered a package through WDTC. I expressed my happiness with that and she agreed - still not officially saying anything. Anyway, I guess we will have to wait and see.
BTW- I asked if she was working Monday morning- and she said no- thank goodness!!!

zulaya
07-30-2003, 04:00 PM
I really hope that someone at Disney is monitoring this particular post because I am livid at this supposed secret that is already out!!!

I just called AGAIN - all I want to know is if I am going to qualify for that 180 day window as a DVC member who doesn't buy a package so that I have A CHANCE to get into Cinderella's Breakfast for my DD's birthday.

I ask "Jamie" , "What can you tell me about the new changes in Priority Seating Policy?"

"Jamie": Nothing
Me: So you know nothing about a change that happens on Monday from 120 and 60 days to 180 and 90 days?
"Jamie": No
Me: All I want to know is if I qualify for the 180 day window so I know if I have to be up at 6am my time Monday to have a chance at getting Cinderella's Breakfast for my daughter's birthday.
"Jamie": Disney World is not responsible for information that is not on official websites.
Me: Yes, I understand that. But since there are numerous places with this information, with obvious sources within Disney, and since you know the information is out there, it would be nice to know what is going on before it happens.
"Jamie": I can't tell you anything.
Me: So there is no supervisor I can speak with?
"Jamie": No.
Me: I just want to have a chance to get the Priority Seatings I want and you are refusing to help me get the information I need to know if I need to call early on Monday morning or not.
"Jamie": I'm sorry

I hung up then. And her tone...she wasn't sorry. I was polite but firm...not nasty or anything.

So Disney spies who are reading this thread...big mistake leaking this out and not confirming the details. All you have now are A LOT of VERY unhappy customers.

mep319
07-30-2003, 04:02 PM
I called to make some changes to current PSs..the guy wouldn't answer any questions. Just said they had a note not to answer any question in regards to the new policy...especially if it wasn't on the "official" disney website. I called yet again to change one more thing and this person was a little nicer and said she has no details but hopefully something would be released this weekend...Oh boy...I was going to cancel my FTP for a room only reservation......maybe I should wait...but I wonder if I then cancel the FTP does it cancel out my PSs!!

Gillian
07-30-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Kaitysmom
I apologize - I have seen some posts at other times implying that Disney should be more worried about pleasing DVC and AP guests. No offense intended. The reason why people feel this way is because AP holders & DVC members are frequent visitors who spend a lot of money at WDW.

It's important for a company to attract new customers, but if they lose their existing ones, they won't stay in business for long! Disney should treat these people well so that they continue to visit and spend money. While a first-time visitor on a package may drop big bucks, it's unlikely that they will return any time soon. And if they do, it may be as a DVC member or AP holder who is now PO'ed. :)

SnowWhite33
07-30-2003, 04:14 PM
I called to make some of my 120 day PS-while I can-and asked about the policy change. The CM told me that she wasn't suppose to tell me, but all of the WDW resort guest would be able to call 6 months in advance, as of Aug 4th. I called back a second time (15 min later)and this time the CM told me that he knew nothing of a change :rolleyes: . I'm hoping the first gal was right as we are AP holders and booked room only.

madge
07-30-2003, 04:19 PM
NEW INFO: Looks like anybody booked at a WDW Resort will be

Scott,
Do you know if Shades of Green and the Starwood properties will be included in the "WDW Resort" category? I know that SoG overflow is booked through WDW, but as far as I know, the S/D aren't, but all 3 are considered Disney Resorts with regards to e-maight, package delivery, etc.

thanks!

Eeyore2U
07-30-2003, 04:25 PM
I hope you all remember you are shooting/complaining about the messenger. Anyone you get at WDW-DINE is doing their job based on what management tells them. If they know something and can't tell us is because they are told not to. Their job may depend on them not saying anything and rememberr call are monitored for quality assurance.

And as far as them being blase', think how you would be if you got a call every few seconds from a lunatic asking about internet runors. :eek: ;)

SnowWhite33
07-30-2003, 04:46 PM
I agree 100% with you-I would not want to be on their end of the phone for nothing. They have to be as unhappy (if not more) with Disney as many of the people here.

mcr5298
07-30-2003, 04:53 PM
Who knows what this means, but I just called WDW-DINE and mentioned that I will be arriving at Disney on 10/19/03. I asked when the earliest I could book CRT for breakfast, and he said 8/20/03. I asked if it was still being booked 60 days out, and he said yes. But who knows what it will be like after 8/4? Good luck to everyone, and I hope that it really won't be that big of a deal.

Scottwdw
07-30-2003, 05:30 PM
The latest information (see my page at New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml) ) I have is not good news.

As always this could change (keep calling and emailing folks!):

Only those people with a WDTC package will be allowed to make the 180 day PS. Those booking through CRO do not qualify.

CRT WILL be included in this new policy.

The GF Kid's programs and Evening Care Facilities (like the Neverland Club) will be included in the new policy.

Being seasonal, the Candlelight Processional Dinner Package will NOT be included.


Remember, don't shoot the messenger!!! :eek:

mazzarafe
07-30-2003, 06:06 PM
I just called DC line to find out who I'm actually booked with and of course it's CRO!:mad:

The lady I spoke with said the same "if it's not on the official site than it's not true" and she did actual say that the policy change wasn't gonna happen. So who the heck knows.

I called earlier this afternoon the dining line and the guy who answered told me I could book Fantasmic 90 days out because it was room only ressie and not a package.

I'm gonna try to send my rejected email again and see if it goes this time.

I think a need a drink now!:confused:

mickeysaver
07-30-2003, 07:28 PM
Well, after roughly an hour of composing a letter to WDW ranting and whining about the new dining policy changes, I get it dumped back. WDW's email server is down. Mickey

elgerber
07-30-2003, 07:51 PM
Scott,

I have read your updates, but I noticed what you have heard does not address DVC specifically. Have you heard anything there??? Or have you still been hearing that only 50% of the tables will be booked at 180 days?

I really don't like this new policy at all. Thanks for all your updates Scott, your website has always been a great tool!!!

Erika

Maridw
07-30-2003, 07:57 PM
I called tonight to see about making 120 day PS for Thanksgiving and since I wanted LTT, they told me that I could only book it 60 days out. I am going to call again after this weekend to see what they say on the 4th. If all goes as the "supposed" new policy says, then they should tell me that I can book 90 days out.

We shall see.

Donalds_best_pal
07-30-2003, 07:57 PM
I am 14 and belive it or not became friends with the one of the vice presidents of WDW Operations. I called him 2 years ago to give feedback on how our family loved WDW and how we visit 20+ times. To make a long story short we were suppose to get together on my trip 2 years ago to WDW but he got sick and was unable to visit. So sent a nice gift to my hotel for me to have as apology. He told me if I ever have problems or concerns to call him... So I called hime today and acutally remembered me belive it or now and said mature and wise I sound now. LOL Here is the deal: Disney Dining doesnt know but they suspended using the policy, he said they got many mad guest calling and complaining. He also understands why us DVC members were very upset and felt like we were getting the shaft. Disney Dining will be notified soon he said but not now. I hope this helps people calm down a lot. The policy there in will stay the same. My mom said I shouldn't give his name out and of course not his number so he doesnt get a flood of calls. This information is real so dont just take it as a joke but me.
I hope this helps
Matt :D

Scottwdw
07-30-2003, 07:59 PM
Only quests with WDTC packages will be able to make the 180 day PS with 50% of the restaurant space available. Whatever is left will then become available at 90 days.

From what I gather, DVC has a separate department where you book your stays.

honeymo78
07-30-2003, 08:04 PM
You all may want to check out a thread on the resorts board concerning the end of CRO. This combination seems to be coordinated with the change in the PS system. I'm sure as more info is availavble on the CRO issue it will posted on the resorts board.

elgerber
07-30-2003, 08:25 PM
So if they do away with CRO, and all rooms are booked through the travel company, DVC members will still be left at 90 days??

This will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

Erika

beattyfamily
07-30-2003, 09:50 PM
On RADP...maybe the tide is turning from all our complaint calls and emails??

I just called to make PS for Thanksgiving...at the end of the conversation...I asked the CM about the "new rules" as of 8-4-03. She didn't know what I was talking about and read a wonderful statement about information from non-official Disney sources to me. Then she offered to "make a call"...when she returned...the CM said that all but a select few Disney restaurants (like V&A) would be available 90 days in advance for PS. I asked about the 180 day window for those confirmed with WDTC. The CM said emphatically that it was misinformation...there was only the 90 day window for everybody. Hmmmmm

AND...

Okay I just got off the phone myself with dining and got this story as well. According to the lady I talked to it's offical that on August 4th those who are 90 days out will be able to get ressies for all resturants except for Chefs de France. Nothing said about V&A but did confirm CRT would be available. This makes me still 60 days from that mark but oh well I can deal with that.

KIS
07-30-2003, 11:33 PM
I have been planning my first trip to WDW for April 24, 2004. I found the DisBoards about a month ago.

I've been plodding along making decisions, learning what to expect at WDW, and trying to shape a family fun vacation.

Just when I was getting the hang of this all, they change the rules.

How often does WDW change the rules like this?

I had been planning on a room only reservation at Dolphin with the teacher's discount, purchased (already -- to avoid increased fees) 7 day park hopper plus tickets, and have been honing in on our itinerary and dining.

I don't think I quite grasp the significance of this yet. I don't think it's worth it to suddenly purchase a package just to get a better chance at some popular dinner times and locations.

What's the worst we room only's stand to miss out on? CRT Breakfasts and the Rose and Crown during Illuminations, right?

What makes it more confusing is that there seem to be some chats elsewhere on these boards about the CRO and "room only reservations" getting reshuffled. I can't quite grasp the significance of that along with this PS thing.

KIS

Donalds_best_pal
07-31-2003, 02:13 AM
FYI People: you dont need to worry about dining policy as they are not changing it.
Matt

kdibattista
07-31-2003, 05:43 AM
All I gotta say is that I'm glad I'm not a Disney Dining CM at 7:00am on August 4th!!!!

Scottwdw
07-31-2003, 06:21 AM
Talk about your information and misinformation that came out overnight (when you would think such important issues like this would not be decided on) has led me to stop posting on these message boards until I get confirmation from people in the know.

I will be posting any and all rumors here: New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

The only thing "official" on that page is in italics.

Feel free to read and discuss what you see but it's getting a little crazy. Funny, it makes me rethink the controversy over Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction. If such an issue of WDW priority seating can get so warped over a period of just 2 days, can you imagine how something like a WMD program could get created from little evidence over months.

Kaitysmom
07-31-2003, 06:58 AM
Don't worry about it KIS. You are pretty much right about the CRT and Rose and Crown PS (last year they wouldn't let you request an outside table for viewing anyways). Both are hard to get now, even without the changes. They are supposedly only releasing 1/2 of the PS at the 180, so you'll still have a good chance on the other 1/2. I wouldn't change my ressies for dining arrangements. Nobody confirmed this for me but I am pretty sure that the restaurants only release a % of their seats to the PS system, so walk ups still get in. Also, PS isn't truly a reservation. I have had to wait over 45 minutes with PS in the past (though only 2X over 5 trips) If you fail to get your PS, try again 48 hours out.

Zulaya - take heart, I have been in your position and attempted to get those birthday PS at CRT. We failed at the 60 day mark and called and called in case they released more seats. Got them the day before her birthday when they released the cancellations. I hope you get them!

Maybe this whole thing will just blow over like Donalds_Best_Pal has posted.

zulaya
07-31-2003, 07:17 AM
I was not going to read this thread anymore, but I read on the DVC Board this info from wdwig.com

Priority Seating Changes - previously we reported to you that WDW had changed their Priority Seating Policy, giving special "perks" to folks booking a Walt Disney Travel Company Vacation Package. Well, that bit of news caused an uproar with Disney Vacation Club members, Annual Passholders and other Disney Resort guests. The policy is now going through review and possible changes. Stay tuned, we will keep you posted on any confirmed developments! (7/30/03)

Scottwdw
07-31-2003, 07:25 AM
Hey, it's almost football season!


WDW to it's Internet fan base, "After further review...." :jester:

Miss Jasmine
07-31-2003, 07:33 AM
This makes me happy that I sent WDW an email. I really hope they are considering another plan. :)

KIS
07-31-2003, 07:58 AM
Kaitysmom,

What do you mean by 48 hours out? Do you mean 48 hours before your trip? Before the date you hope to go to that particular restaurant or what?

Thanks for your feedback.

I guess we just have to sit back and wait.

KIS

Certifiable WDW Nut
07-31-2003, 08:10 AM
At this point WDW needs to say something, if for no reason than to keep their phone system from crashing Monday morning. If it's changing, announce it before Monday morning and if it's not changing somehow manage to say that too.

At this rate, Monday morning is going to be hell for everyone - CMs, guests, IT people - everyone.

jacksonsmom
07-31-2003, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Certifiable WDW Nut
At this point WDW needs to say something, if for no reason than to keep their phone system from crashing Monday morning. If it's changing, announce it before Monday morning and if it's not changing somehow manage to say that too.



I whole heartly agree!! They should not leave us hanging & wondering. I really feel bad for the CMs working the phones on Monday, I would NOT want that job:rolleyes:

I am hoping by Sunday they give the OFFICIAL word about changing the PS's or not.

Personally I say leave everything ALONE!!!!:p But if they are going to change it then they better make it FAIR to everyone staying on site.....DVCs, APs, room only's, and packages!! I can see having off site people waiting to make their PS's but NOT for people staying ON site. It would not be fair to say "well these people that are staying on site CAN make a PS right now, BUT these people that are in the room right next to them CAN'T"
I would be so disappointed in Disney if they did change it to where only people with packages can make a PS before everyone else.

Guess we will see on Monday what happens!:rolleyes:

Kaitysmom
07-31-2003, 08:38 AM
KIS - 48 hours prior to when you want the PS. Worked for me, got CRT this way. Just call right at 7:00, two days ahead and see if they have anything for the restaurant you wanted. This will work if you can be flexible with your time - probably unlikely that it would work for Rose and Crown at Illuminations times, but who knows... This method is worth a try regardless of what happens with their new system.

Does anyone else look at people dining during those hard to get PS and wonder how they got them? :p So many try so hard, just makes me wonder if they know how lucky they are?

Scottwdw
07-31-2003, 06:48 PM
Folks, you need to read my latest update.

New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

You will find that WDW did listen and, yea, they spun it in their favor. You got to love PR people!! :tongue:

beattyfamily
07-31-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Scottwdw
Folks, you need to read my latest update.

New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

You will find that WDW did listen and, yea, they spun it in their favor. You got to love PR people!! :tongue:

Great news! Thanks so much for sharing your latest info with us!

BCV23
07-31-2003, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the update Scott...great news.

Personally I like the 90 days out policy. One call will usually do it for us.

dvcmember
07-31-2003, 07:13 PM
That is wonderful news. Barb:D

ead79
07-31-2003, 07:26 PM
Hooray! I like the new policy, even though it means I'll have to wait longer to book some PS's for my December trip. I think it takes a lot of the confusion out of the dining ressies system. :)

MicheleC
07-31-2003, 07:32 PM
Excellent news! I'm really surprised that they changed their decision due to the volume of people responding negatively to the initial announcement. I guess I'll be calling with the masses on Monday morning to try to get CRT for my October trip!

MrsPete
07-31-2003, 07:40 PM
I DO like the idea of standardizing ALL reservations to 90 days (or 60 days or whatever). Having one rule for Magic Kingdom, one rule for Epcot, and another rule for resorts was confusing.

jacksonsmom
07-31-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Scottwdw
Folks, you need to read my latest update.

New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

You will find that WDW did listen and, yea, they spun it in their favor. You got to love PR people!! :tongue:

THANK YOU for your updates!
That is wonderful news. Although now I will have to wait
another 30 days before making a couple PS's for our December trip, but that is OK!
I think having all restaurants 90 days out is the most fair decision :)

mazzarafe
08-01-2003, 08:14 AM
That is great news!!!

It is much easier to have one set time to have to call. Get it all over with alot quicker. I know I have trouble sleeping when it's ps time.

Hopefully the word won't spread too fast and we have an easier time getting CRT ressies because we call 30 days earlier than the masses.:rolleyes: Wishful thinking I guess.

Good luck to everyone who has to call on Monday to play catchup on your ps's. I have until DD's birthday in September before my 90 day window is up and I'll be calling on her b-day for CRT so maybe that'll bring me luck!:Pinkbounc

susy
08-01-2003, 11:17 AM
Just spoke to a CM this morning about the new policy. I was making a PS and this was a regular CM (not a manager). I asked about it and he said that they did get so many complaints in the past couple of days that the new policy will be 90 days out for everyone as of AUG 4! Yeah!

beattyfamily
08-01-2003, 04:42 PM
Here is the e-mail I just got:

Thank you for your email with reference to Priority Seating reservations at the
WALT DISNEY WORLD® Resort. Effective August 4, 2003, bookings for all Walt
Disney World® Resort dining locations that offer priority seating times will be
available 90 days in advance, with the following exceptions:

Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Review can be confirmed 2 years out
Disney's Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show can be confirmed 2 years out
Bistro de Paris can be confirmed 30 days out
Lunch with a Disney Artist can be confirmed 30 days out
Victoria and Albert's Chef's Table can be confirmed 180 days out
Mickey's Backyard Barbecue can be confirmed based on availability

This change will result in a more easily understood process for our guests, with
a consistent policy for our dining locations that accept priority seating,
except for locations with unique situations. The new policy will be in effect
for all WDW Resort guests, including Disney Vacation Club Members. As always,
we will continue to evaluate enhancements to these policies to best serve the
needs of our guests.

What do you think of the BOLD line? What does it mean for offsite guests?

Disneyolic
08-01-2003, 05:17 PM
beattyfamily - that is interesting. My hope would be that only resort guests would be able to make the PSs. That should be a perk to staying onsite, but I guess we will see.

ahutton
08-01-2003, 07:16 PM
I sent an e-mail inquiring about the policy. Here is the response I received:

August 1, 2003

Thank you for your email with reference to Priority Seating reservations at the WALT DISNEY WORLD. Resort. Effective August 4, 2003, bookings for all Walt Disney World. Resort dining locations that offer priority seating times will be available 90 days in advance, with the following exceptions:

Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Review can be confirmed 2 years out
Disney's Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show can be confirmed 2 years out
Bistro de Paris can be confirmed 30 days out
Lunch with a Disney Artist can be confirmed 30 days out
Victoria and Albert's Chef's Table can be confirmed 180 days out
Mickey's Backyard Barbecue can be confirmed based on availability

This change will result in a more easily understood process for our guests, with a consistent policy for our dining locations that accept priority seating, except for locations with unique situations. The new policy will be in effect for all WDW Resort guests, including Disney Vacation Club Members. As always,
we will continue to evaluate enhancements to these policies to best serve the needs of our guests.

Sincerely
Jackie
Member Satisfaction Manager

DisneyCP2002
08-01-2003, 07:26 PM
Although it means a 60 more days wait for me I'm so glad they changed the policy to include everyone. The way it was setup originally was not fair to all those we are loyal to Disney but don't go through WDTC to make travel arrangments. This now should make everyone happy, since everyone seems to be included. I'll be happy when my 90 day mark hits that's for sure.

FloridaCat
08-01-2003, 07:32 PM
What does it mean for offsite guests?

They/We will continue to do what they have always done. Enjoy Orlando’s fine dining.

We have been coming to WDW for years and since we live so close, many times on a one day ticket. We have dined in every major dining establishment at WDW, with no PS or a very long wait, as many day ticket people have, will do the same.

AKASnowWhite
08-02-2003, 09:46 AM
What a relief!

I just returned from a non-Disney vacation :eek: and was nearly sent into a frenzy by this thread! I'm SO glad I didn't panic :p I can handle the 90 day rule!

flyingchef
08-02-2003, 11:58 PM
I heard that they have since changed the policy...all restaurants are able to be booked 90 days in advance by anyone...that means all restaurants that were previously 120 days or 60 days will now be changed to 90days starting aug 4. As always, everything with disney is subject to change until It is officially announced.

inky dinky doo
08-03-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by flyingchef
I heard that they have since changed the policy...all restaurants are able to be booked 90 days in advance by anyone...that means all restaurants that were previously 120 days or 60 days will now be changed to 90days starting aug 4. As always, everything with disney is subject to change until It is officially announced.

. . . and sometimes even after it's officially announced. ;)

Pat

125 days and counting . . . again!

smfnj
08-03-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by mommystieg
Whose bright idea was this:confused: I am also an AP holder and DVC member--why are we being punished for being loyal Disney visitors:confused:

This was the bright idea of some clueless suit. "We don't have to worry about all the AP/DVC sheep, they'll keep coming back to throw all of their hard earned money at us. We can concentrate all the perks on those who rarely come to WDW and try to turn them into sheep also."

I'm preparing a blistering letter for all those cluless suits as we speak. The last one I wrote was about the end of Early Entry.

steve

Scottwdw
08-03-2003, 06:11 PM
Folks, WDW dropped the WDTC 180 day PS idea. For the latest information, check out my page at New PS Policy (http://pscalculator.net/psnew.shtml)

smfnj
08-03-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by trampslady
We eat every meal at WDW and never even venture off the property for anything. We have visited from Texas six times this year, been on the cruise, and have two trips remaining for the year.

I think it's time for everybody to post messages on all the wonderful places to eat just a short ride off-property, also the non-Disney owned on-property establishments.

steve

FloridaCat
08-03-2003, 06:57 PM
Orlando Dining
All styles, price range. Many close to WDW

http://orlando.diningchannel.com/

BCV23
08-03-2003, 07:19 PM
Wow...what is everyone so upset about? Did you read Scott's link? It's 90 days for EVERYONE for almost all restaurants including CRT! Nice and simple it seems to me. For the vast majority of guests who don't read this site and others like it they will have no clue about this week's tempest in a teapot.

smfnj
08-03-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by BCV23
Wow...what is everyone so upset about? Did you read Scott's link? It's 90 days for EVERYONE for almost all restaurants including CRT! Nice and simple it seems to me.

Yes I did read Scotts post, however it took quite a while to read all 15 pages of messages and I posted as I went along.

I've been reading on the Resorts forum the last few days and saw mention of the PS changes. You're right, the latest change is simple and fair to all WDW resort guests. But you are wrong as far as "what is everyone so upset about?" If everybody didn't get upset and write/call Disney, the original PS system favoring WDTC customers would now be policy.

Also, if everybody didn't get so upset when Early Entry was axed you wouldn't be able to enjoy Extra Hour Magic now. You can be a sheep and go along with whatever idea some clown at WDW comes up with or speak out and force changes. Lots of squeaky wheels get attention at high levels.

steve

BCV23
08-03-2003, 08:19 PM
My "what is everyone so upset about" was referencing the last few posts when folks were complaining about the policy that no longer existed ...and in fact never did come to fruition.

I agree that it was great that everyone let WDW know their objections to the proposed policy change and that WDW listened. I just couldn't understand why people were still so upset and complaining when the change had been abandoned!

As for EE....another whole story. We personaly don't like it nor what it does to the staffing levels at non EE parks. So you bet we don't enjoy it now. However obviously lots of folks love it and WDW has listened to its guests.

smfnj
08-03-2003, 08:34 PM
BCV23, I understand. Many people, myself included don't follow all the boards every day, just not enough time. Heck, I've got 30 or 40 newsgroups I TRY to keep up on also. I was livid when I started reading this thread and posted before finishing reading the whole thread, and I'm sure some others may also.

You're right about EE, I don't go on vacation to get up at 6am, but many people do. It does bring a lot of people into one park each day which we avoid like the plague.

steve

wdwcrazee
08-03-2003, 08:42 PM
Hello, it's been a long time since I've posted here, but reading this news, I just couldn't let this one pass me by.

Does Disney always make out better on the pkg deals? Those of us who own AP's and DVC members are showing loyalty to Disney and spending more money in the long run, aren't we? Since we're ultimately spending more time there than the majority of guests (not all, however) who are buying into the packages and not returning again for several years.

This is really a let down, and I was just wondering if this has anything to do with Disney not offering any AP resort discounts for the month of Sept. I sure hope not.

BCV23
08-03-2003, 08:49 PM
smfnj...maybe we could start an "end Extra Magic Hour" movement!:D

Do you think we would have any luck?

smfnj
08-04-2003, 09:11 PM
BCV23, how about an extra 4 Hours of Magic at each park, every day??

mcr5298
08-04-2003, 09:19 PM
It's funny, if I didn't have a trip coming up in October, this change would not have bothered me at all. Luckily I was able to get the one PS that I wanted....CRT for 10/22 at 8:25 am for a party of 13!!! :) So this change only affects the people who have a trip coming up in the next couple of months. Honestly, I think that it is great that we can now book 90 days out. It will put me in the Disney mood for a trip that is still a few months away. I hope that everyone is able to get the reservations that they want! Good luck! :sunny:

BCV23
08-04-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by smfnj
BCV23, how about an extra 4 Hours of Magic at each park, every day??

LOL...the very idea exhausts me!:teeth:

BibbidyBobbidyBoo
08-06-2003, 01:07 AM
Oh thank GOD....that I read the entire thread before responding. I was about to FLIP out about not being able to get CRT PS's because we didn't book a pkg (I'm an AP holder plus we are doing the "bounce back" special for our resort). We've never been and I'm SOOOOOO hoping I get a PS for our trip.
I can't really remember when (it's marked on my calendar somewhere though LOL) I was planning on doing that- can't remember how far out it was before (90days? 60? 120?) but I guess it is easier to remember 90 days for almost all PSs now.

*phew* So glad they decided against that.
However.... not holding my breath. This means I'll need to start trying to get CRT PS's August 30th..... 90 days before... and they could change their minds again by then. :(

parrothead5
08-06-2003, 09:15 AM
why dont we all send emails to all the big shots, who's emails were listed in an earlier post!
I agree that this is a slap in the face to all the disney fans that return year after year...

beattyfamily
08-06-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by parrothead5
why dont we all send emails to all the big shots, who's emails were listed in an earlier post!
I agree that this is a slap in the face to all the disney fans that return year after year...

When the scoop came out about the policy change to 180 for package guests and 90 days for non-package guests we all did email and call Disney with our complains so over this past weekend Disney said they will NOT be implementing that 'new' policy but would go to a blanket policy of 90 days for everyone for most restaurants starting August 4. Disney did listen!

Maridw
08-06-2003, 10:51 AM
I too was concerned about the "supposed" new policy. So I emailed WDW and the response I got was the same as Scott's new update. All restaurants unless specified will be able to be booked 90 days out. That is actually a plus for me, as I will be booking LTT for Thanksgiving and would not have been able to book until the end of September. Now with the new policy of 90 days out, I can book at the end of August.

I am glad they got things straightened out. The old policy wasn't that confusing, but the new one was unfair to some people.

I will be on the phone first thing in the morning of the 28th to book my PS for LTT.

:)

Mike J
08-06-2003, 12:24 PM
I was able to book Thanksgiving dinner today. The agent told me that Thanksgiving is available to be booked right now. Chef Mickey's sold out :( for party of 5 so I ended up with Yacht Club galley.

Mike

beattyfamily
08-06-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Mike J
I was able to book Thanksgiving dinner today. The agent told me that Thanksgiving is available to be booked right now. Chef Mickey's sold out :( for party of 5 so I ended up with Yacht Club galley.

Mike

That's really odd...since the new policy is 90 days??

I would think it was possible up until August 3rd for anything that was 120 days out but as of August 4th it should be 90 days so nothing past November 4th should be bookable yet??

I'm so confused?:confused: