Resale gone bad

[stuartsong]

I just completed the closing for 270 points (October use year) at Vero Beach through Pat Spell at Timeshare Store. The contract clearly stated 17 banked points from 2001, 270 points from 2002 which were suppose to be banked. When I checked with Disney, there was 65 point missing. I only received 222 points from 2002 and they were not banked. Apparantly, the previous owner used the points after listing it with The Timeshare Store.

What really bothers me is that Pat has not called me back at all. I have left her messages concerning this issue. Instead Tom Yary has called me, but there is still no resolution. The Timeshare Store never did a complete check of the points the owner was claiming. Also, this re-sale took almost 4 months to close. I had to follow up with Pat each time as to when this would close. I am disgusted with the service provided by Pat. I had purchased two other resales through Timeshare Store with Jerry. In those transactions, everything was perfect.

Any suggestion on what my next course of action should be? This resale was clearly a misrepresentation by the seller and the Timeshare Store.

[Granny]

I'm sorry to hear about this. No consolation to you, but this seems to be a pretty rare instance where the contract and actual points are not in agreement.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems a pretty clear case of breach of contract. It would seem the easiest thing would be to get a settlement of a refund from the seller of an agreed upon amount.

Like I said, I am not a lawyer, but you might want to contact one to see what your options are.

[buzz5985]

I had trouble with my timeshare also. But wait. It could still be OK. The Timeshare Closing Company ended up resolving the problem and not the agent.

When I called Disney to see if my points were in my account, they weren't, because something was wrong. So they did a audit of the account. I should have had 37 banked points, plus 150 current points. Ended up being 67 banked points!!! Plus the 150 was there. So try calling the Closing Company. Mine also took over 4 months to close.

[rsschneck]

We used Pat from The Timeshare Store in October. She was great and so was the closing service. Everything was as it was stated. Sorry, to hear of your experience. I would continue to persue it through the broker and closing agency. I would be upset if that had happened to me. Let us know what the final outcome is.:confused:

[SlyHubby]

The contract clearly stated 17 banked points from 2001
just thinking out loud here - but, how could there be 17 banked points from 2001? being that it's 2003, wouldn't they had to have been used by now? I suspect that the contract you bought probably hasn't sold for a long time and the information was out of date and they didn't think of updating it.

regardless of that, I agree, that if you have something in writing stating the points that should have been there, that is what you are entitled to. either the Timeshare Store or the prior owner owes you some compensation. Since they cannot give you the points, I would suspect some sort of monetary reimbursement is in order. Hit them up for something in the $5 to $10/point range.

it will work out - clearly, if you have a contract and they did not provide what was stated they are wrong. I seriously doubt you need to go through legal means to resolve it (but let them know you will if you have to).

good luck.

[joepoe]

Originally posted by SlyHubby
just thinking out loud here - but, how could there be 17 banked points from 2001? being that it's 2003, wouldn't they had to have been used by now? I suspect that the contract you bought probably hasn't sold for a long time and the information was out of date and they didn't think of updating it.

good luck.

October use year. 2002 is not over yet with that use year.

[JOC]

just thinking out loud here - but, how could there be 17 banked points from 2001? being that it's 2003, wouldn't they had to have been used by now?
It's an October use year, so banked 2001 points would have until September 30, 2003, to be used. :)

[rgilmour]

We also had problems with our closing with the Timeshare store.
My DH was at first unsure about the purchase and the experience with the Timeshare closing has left him feeling even more unsure about purchasing more points (wah!).
In our experience it was a long closing time and repeated mistakes with the company and agents that were just simply unprofessional. When we tried to explain to agents how unhappy we were they were unresponsive and offered lame excuses for the problems, unprofessional handling of our closing and extraordinarly sloppy way in which they dealt with problems that arose (and there were many).
Once we were in the DVC system everything changed. We began recieving DIsney type courtesy and professionalism.
It really is unfortunate that the Timeshare Store seems not to be concerned about customer satisfaction or happiness.

[JudithM]

Originally posted by rgilmour
We also had problems with our closing with the Timeshare store. My DH was at first unsure about the purchase and the experience with the Timeshare closing has left him feeling even more unsure about purchasing more points (wah!).
In our experience it was a long closing time and repeated mistakes with the company and agents that were just simply unprofessional. When we tried to explain to agents how unhappy we were they were unresponsive and offered lame excuses for the problems, unprofessional handling of our closing and extraordinarly sloppy way in which they dealt with problems that arose (and there were many).
Once we were in the DVC system everything changed. We began recieving DIsney type courtesy and professionalism.
It really is unfortunate that the Timeshare Store seems not to be concerned about customer satisfaction or happiness.

The Disney courtesy & professionalism you mention is why we bought our original contract & our add-on through Disney. Before we closed the first time a DVC member told us that Disney would not let us sign any papers without completely understanding what we were - how true :). Disney even brought in someone knowledgeable of the laws in our state at the time. We had some additional papers to sign & again we didn't sign until we knew what we were signing.

I am sorry that the origianl poster is having trouble with their resale purchase.

[Cruelladeville]

Well, I suppose that you could say that you were lucky someone from the Timeshare Store even called you back--I have been trying to get a small contract for over a year, and not once did they call me. I did all the calling, even pointing out contracts on their web site that they didn't seem to know were there! I couldn't recommend them from these experiences, although I have dealt with Shontell--who now has her own agency--and she was definitely "on the ball".

It's too bad that they are letting their reputation go down. I would think that the Timeshare Store might be rather concerned with everyone on this board hearing about this --we all are a significant part of their business, aren't we?

[CaptainMidnight]

Just a note -- The Timeshare Store is our site sponsor, and I appreciate their support of this DVC forum. I enjoy sharing ideas and learning more about my investment here.

Is this thread getting too specific about an individual's responsiveness and still consistent with our posting guidelines? Just a thought, it's not my call.

[robinb]

I'm sorry to hear that people have had problems with Pat and the Timeshare Store :(. FWIW, Tom Yeary is the owner of the company, so I think he would be the best one to handle any serious problems such as this. In the Timeshare Store's defense, they may have also been caught be surprise by the seller's use of the points after the contract was signed. I agree that the seller misrepresented the sale.

I bought both my resales from the Timeshare Store (one using Pat) and was happy with both transactions while I had "call back" problems with the other resale agents mentioned as better at that kind of thing.

As for the point descepency, IIRC the exact number of points, including those banked, etc is on the contract that is signed by both parties when the offer is accepted. The closing company should have picked up on the fact that the true number of points was less than on the contract as that's one of the things you paid them for. I would continue to work with Tom and I would also call the closing company and follow up with them. You should be compensated for the missing 65 points. I would also call the Attorney General's office of your state and the state of Florida. They should be able to help you sort out your legal options.

Good luck in working things out.

[luckytso]

Stuart, I am sorry for the lost point. I would think the closing company should be able to do something since they were really the one who handled everything.

I have bought several contracts from Pat Spell and I have never had any problems with her. She knows what I am looking for and she always calls when something good comes in before they put it on the board. I bought several this way with great prices. Also, she is more willing to present offers that are lower than usual to the sellers. I bought a HH contract (maybe September or even later last year) for $50 per point (seller paid closing and maintenance).

Good luck, I hope they can work out something with you.

[Duchie]

I know Pat was on vacation for most of this past week. So if you were not receiving calls back from her this week, that could have been the cause.

[vernon]

I just wanted to echo ( or underline) Robin's point. As I see it, your main beef should be with the seller. Ultimately they hold the current information on their points and should know that what they legally promised to sell you, is not what you have received. Even a title/closing company, I think, would struggle to have a day to day update on points used etc, so I can see how the Timeshare store could be in a situation where it is impossible for them to accurately monitor the seller and ensure they are completely honest. It may be that the seller had forgotten they had used or booked those points, but IMHO they have a duty to inform you of the correct status of what's being sold.

Without knowing the timeline of your complaint it's difficult to see if you're justified in being quite so personal with your attack. I don't know if the lady concerned is, as has been stated, on vacation. Nor do I know if the time she has been away covers all the time of your dispute, but I would suggest she deserves the opportunity to address your problems if it has been a very recent situation.

I understand how frustrating it must be when things go wrong, but this does appear to have the potential to be a complex situation with a number of individuals and institutions needing to be contacted and questioned. if the company have promised to look into the situation, and are doing so, I can understand why this could take a couple of weeks to remedy.

I hope the timeshare store are able to help you with your problem ( and I understand that, as they were the company you dealt with, you would expect that) , but on the initial reading of this situation I feel your genuine issue is certainly with the seller and possibly with the title/closing company.

[CarolA]

Well, I think there is some blame to go around here with the Timeshare store and the closing company. I just signed my documents this week and it says that the seller is giving me 100 pts each year with 100 pts banked from last year.

If that turns out not to be what I get then in my mind the title company did not do their job and I would consider an attorney to void the whole deal (or at least negioate) I think if I were Stuart I would contact an attorney for advice.

[TCPluto]

Everybody: lets just relax, take a deep breath and go to our happy place.... (WDW, right?)

We had a small problem wth an OKW resale this past spring, NOT through the Timehare Store, but another resale company.

The offer was for all of 2002 use year points banked and all of 2003 use year points available (June use year).

When the contract closed the first week of May, I called MS and they told me that the 2002 points had never been banked, therefore would expire in the next 28 days! Additionally, they told me that I had all of 2001 use year points banked into 2002, which would also be expiring in 28 days!


Holy cow! What to do?

I called Barb Worden at the Timeshare Closing Service and the resale agent (again, not The Timeshare Store).

Long story short, Barb was able to get Disney to honor the 2002 use year points banked into 2003 use year. Then, I scrambled and rented out the 2001 use year points banked into 2002, which would have expired in only 3-4 weeks. Barb was able to accomplish this in less than 24 hours from the time the error was discovered.


Final Analysis:

Four families got a very good deal on Disney vacations as a result. Three of them were DVC members. I think everyone was happy.

Given just a little time (very little), the problem was resolved correctly. No complaints. The resale agent (did I say not the Timeshare Store?), The Timeshare Closing Service and Disney ALL did the right thing. There was no need to get attorneys or AG offices from anyone's state involved. I trust this will be resolved in a similar fashion.


We will be closing on a BWV contract on Monday WITH Pat Spell from the Timeshare Store. Every interaction has been very good, working with Pat and The Timeshare Store has been a very positive experience.

I'm confident that both she and the rest of the staff at The Timeshare Store value their reputations too much to not work vigorously to right the matter.

Well, enough of all that. Time to go close the Nat'l Cherry Festival (ends today).

Remember, go to your happy places...

[SlyHubby]

Given just a little time (very little), the problem was resolved correctly. No complaints. The resale agent (did I say not the Timeshare Store?), The Timeshare Closing Service and Disney ALL did the right thing. There was no need to get attorneys or AG offices from anyone's state involved. I trust this will be resolved in a similar fashion.

TCPluto, the original poster has already said they have been getting no response from the Timeshare Store. I would think the courtesy of a response wouldn't be too much to ask for considering a mistake was made on someones part (definitely not the buyer) - don't you? If the Timeshare Store is not being responsive to the buyer, exactly how long do you think the buyer should wait before moving on to more forceful means of resolving the situation?

As I see it, your main beef should be with the seller.

No, I'm sorry vernon, the main beef should be with the Timeshare Store. They are responsible for listing the contract. If they are not responsible and accountable for verifying the facts of what they are putting on the contract, then what exactly is their purpose here? A listing service? It doesn't take a real estate license to simply advertise.

[TCPluto]

If Pat was on vacation and the OP is waiting for a return call, it may be a while.

This matter was posted on Friday in the late morning. I think it is reasonable that The Timeshare Store is working on the matter, and may be waiting for Pat's return to assist in clearing up what the issue is.

In any event, getting angry and all worked up is accomplishing nothing for the OP. I think the matter will resolve itself.

Good luck Stuart, I hope it is resolved quickly for you. I still suggest patience.

[anniet]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune, I hope that things work out for you.

Thanks for making me happy I went directly through DVC for my initial contract AND the add-on!

[DSNY FN]

Boy are we glad we bought through Disney directly and this solidifies the point exactly and now will continue to go through them even if it costs a bit more for the points.

[Dean]

I hope it gets worked out. In general, closing agents do not verify the points accounting, only the actual ownership. You do have a beef with the seller and broker. I suspect it's the sellers fault but will end up being the brokers responsibility. We'll see how they do. My guess is they'll get if fixed, esp with all this publicity on one of their main referral sources. You can still bank 68 points from the current batch and hopefully DVC will let you by. Remember that DVC signed off on the contract which listed the specifics it seems so I'd ask them about it. In the future, I'd make sure to get specifics from the timeshare resort (DVC in this case) when buying a resale.

Hopefully TSS or DVC will at least get you full use of the 222. My guess is you'll be out the rest unless the seller is willing to reimburse you. TSS may also be able to get some points transferred to you from another source. Good luck.

[5infam]

I tend to agree with SlyHubby on this one. The issue here is that the agent in question is acting as agent and representative for both the buyer and the seller. This means that they need to take extra care in handling both parties equally.

All in all, this was probably an error or an oversight, but poor service should not be excused.

This should serve as a warning to all potential resale buyers out there to make sure you follow up on your agent and not just leave it up to them. It is nice to be able to trust them, but this is a financial transaction and it is always better to be safe than sorry.

I am waiting on my resale to come through (waiting on the ROFR) and as soon as I read this thread I immediately contacted my agent (not the Timeshare Store) via e-mail, asking for verification of my banked points, points from this use year, and clarification that nothing had been borrowed. Within 1 hour I was called at home with the reassurance (and a fax to back it up) that this was all verified through Disney. I was also told that title/closing will do the same, and it is this agents common practice to call Disney directly the day before close to get a final verification.

IMHO, this is the way it should be done!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[SlyHubby]

that is right 5infam.

In NJ (and I know in CA as well), in a real estate transaction where the agent represents the buyer and seller, they are specifically required to get a signature from the buyer that the buyer acknowledges that the agent is representing both. Further, the buyer has paid a fee to the Timeshare Store for their services - right? Wouldn't you think the service of verifying that what is being sold is a true representation of what is stated is part of that? If the buyer has it in writing, there really is no issue here - someone is going to straighten it out, and the buyer is going to get what the contract says. The Timeshare Store is not going to say "deal with the seller" - that is why the Timeshare Store is a middleman - to do a middleman's job - as they were paid to do.

[TCPluto]

In the world of instant gratification, I guess it's no surprise that because the problem wasn't fixed immediately it warrants international incident status.

I think it a far better idea to allow Pat Spell and The Timeshare Store time to address the problem. There is no question that a problem exists. However, it is one that cannot likely be addressed on a weekend; after business hours; when at least 2/3 of the business agents unavailable due to vacations (Barb Worden from the Timeshare Closing Service is also unavailable until Monday- my resale was scheduled to close on Friday).

Stuart, I think you can trust that everyone's reputations are too important to them to risk over your discrepency. With patience, your points, or just compensation, will be restored to you.

[JimC]

Sorry to hear of your trouble. Whatever your signed contract states you were purchasing is what you are entitled to receive. If it clearly states a certain number of points banked then you have a right to those points or an adjustment to the purchase price (if the points are gone a price adjustment is about the only recourse I suspect is available).

We used Pat at the Timeshare Store and her services were first rate, very professional, prompt and courteous. We would use her again with no hesitation.

Before we went with the Timeshare Store we did a license check with the State of Florida and a BBB check (they are members) to see if their credentials were in good standing and if there were any complaints against them. Their credentials were in good order and their record was clean both with the state and BBB. You can do these searches on the internet.

The time it takes to close depends on many factors -- buyers, agents, sellers, Disney, County clerk, title company, etc. There are many places that a log jam can occur. It might be unfair to single out one party when it is likely that a combination of events have lengthened the process.

We have had problems with real estate closings (personal and business; but not DVC contracts) and sometimes it has taken months to get the issue(s) worked out. But they do work out.

Give your agent (Pat), the broker (Tom) and the sellers an opportunity to determine what happened and how it can be corrected. It is unlikely that professionals who have worked many years to build a fine reputation would suddenly go bad. And if a mistake was made, and we all make mistakes at times, they will work to make things right.

[stuartsong]

This problem was first detected on Tuesday and notified to Timeshare Store. I tried contacting Pat first, but I was told she would be out of the office until Wednesday. Tom Yeary did call me and told me he would try to resolve this with the seller. The last I have heard from Timeshare Store is Wednesday. I was specifically told by Tom that he would get back to me the next day or two. He was left with my cell phone number, so it's not a case of not being able to reach me. All this time, Pat has never called me to explain why this happened.

This is not the first time I have used Timeshare Store. I have two very good experience with Jerry. In fact, the last purchase with Jerry started almost two weeks after this purchase with Pat. The one with Jerry closed over a month before Pat's. During the whole process, Jerry called me three or four times keeping me updated on the progress.

When Disney member services found out about this problem, they had no problem banking the remaining 222 points from 2002 use year. One problem solved, but there is still the missing 65 points that was part of the contract. Yes, I would like a quick resolution and a follow up from Timeshare Store. When I promise to call someone in specific amount of time, I follow up. That's my expectation also from people I deal with.

I have full expectation that this will be resolved, but I feel I shouldn't have to push to get this resolved. Timshare Store should take on the full responsibility and resolve this matter as soon as possible. I should not have me wait for them to resolve the issue with the seller before resolving the issue with me.

[Mojomanny]

Just my 2 Cents.....

If you spoke with Tom on Wednesday and he said he would get back in a day or two, it would be nice if he did that, even if just to say he has no immediate answer for you. Of course we need to understand that yours is not the only matter Tom and his staff are dealing with. To you it is the most pressing and urgent, to Tom and his staff it is surely just one of many issues which all deserve priority.

That being said, this sounds like a time consuming problem which will not be solved in a day, especially if some of the principals involved may be on vacation (tis the season).

IMHO, I think you need to take a deep breath, relax and give them a bit more reasonable amount of time to research and resolve the problem. If it had been a a week without hearing, I can see blasting them on the boards but not under the circumstances you describe.

Take a breath, relax. I am sure all will be well.

[robinb]

Originally posted by Mojomanny
IMHO, I think you need to take a deep breath, relax and give them a bit more reasonable amount of time to research and resolve the problem. If it had been a a week without hearing, I can see blasting them on the boards but not under the circumstances you describe.

I have to agree. It may seem that it's been forever since you found the error, but it's only been 2 days (Thursday and Friday) since you were able to speak to someone at TTS. That is really not enough time for Tom to follow up on such a difficult problem. Especially if the problem is a seller who used your missing points for a last family vacation on your dime :(. I would also not be surprised that Tom told Pat that he (as the boss) was handling the problem and that she didn't need to return your call.

Since you have all of us hanging with baited breath, please update us next week when you learn more!

[JimC]

I concur with the others who have said that you should give Tom a week to make some headway on this issue. It is quite possible that he is having trouble contacting the seller, and he may need to do some homework to become familiar with your transaction.

I believe that The Timeshare Store acts as a Transaction Broker, which means it provides limited representation to both parties to facilitate a transaction. Representations regarding the contract are made by the seller. If the probelm lies there, then Tom can facilitate a resolution of the issue between seller and buyer. But he is not obligated nor should he make good on a breach by seller.

[tinkerboy]

I had a problem with my resale. Without going into details, The Timeshare companies did not contact me, when they should have. This did not give me a whole lot of confidence with these companies. It is their responsibility to keep on top of this type of stuff. Certainly some compensation should be given.

[wilderness01]

This will get resolved but in time. However, I agree that someone should at least call you back on a regular basis to assure you that the problem is being worked on. You have already had trust broken and now should be handled with a little extra TLC. EVERYONE is busy but they should be extra nice and take the extra time because of the mistake. Good luck.:D

[stuartsong]

It took little more time than I would have liked, but this issue has been resolved to my satisfaction. To make the long story short, Tom at Timeshare Store will reimburse me for the points that were missing on the contract. The Timeshare Store is taking the full responsibility for the missing points and not passing it off on to the seller.

I may have been hard on Pat for not calling back and the contract taking so long. I understand the situation as Tom explained it to me. I also did not know Tom was the owner until I read the replies. I guess I can't fault for Pat not calling back on this issue if the owner was involved in it already. I also learned Pat had a death in the family, so there was a legitimate reason for the lack of a call back.

I appreciate Tom handling the issue and taking the responsibility. I was led to believe that the seller would have to take the responsibility first before any resolution was completed. In the end, Tom took the responsbility to make the customer happy. Now, I can finally get back to enjoying the Disney experience.

[TIdoublegaER]

I'm glad everything was resolved and.. WELCOME HOME!:)

[TCPluto]

Congratulations Stuart!

What a great job by The Timeshare Store folks. Hopefully they don't have to absorb the loss created by the activities of the seller.

[rsschneck]

We had such a great experience with The Timeshare Store, Pat Spell and The Timeshare Closing services that I figured it would all work out.
My first add-on will probably be with Pat again, she was great!
I hope you enjoy planning your first DVC vacation!

WELCOME HOME!

[Pumbaa_]

Glad to hear that you had a positive resolution to your problem. It sounds like it was handled promptly and professionally.

Welcome Home!:D

[tiberius]

I am glad to hear that The Timeshare Store did right by you. They handled my resale purchase for me with no problems, but the real measure of a company is how they handle a problem like yours!

[robinb]

Thanks for the fantastic update. I'm glad that everything worked out for you! I knew that they would come through :). Tom handled my first resale personally when The Timeshare Store was Williamsburg Realty.

:bounce: Welcome Home!!!:bounce: