So now they're trying to out thrill Six Flags?

[HB2K]

More proof that Ei$ner just doesn't get it....

Jim Hill speaks of DCA's "rebirth" as a thrill park (http://www.jimhillmedia.com/articles/07072003.1.htm)

Come the Spring of 2004, with the official opening of DCA's "Twilight Zone Tower of Terror," look for the Mouse to continue to push this difference between Disneyland and Disney's California Adventure. That "The Happiest Place on Earth" is still where you want to go if you want fine family fun, while DCA is where you really want to go if you want to scream your head off. Get your fill of edginess and thrills.

That's wonderfull. Absolutely wonderfull.

So does this mean future expansions meant to turn Anahiem into a vacation destination are in the trash? If so it will join Go.Com, the Secret Lab, et al as concepts which COULD have been successes had they been properly funded & managed.

Look for Mickey's marketing staff to try and cement Disney's California Adventure's new image with Southern Californians when it announces (as part of the hoopla surrounding the Tower of Terror's grand opening next year) that another clone of a highly successful Disney-MGM thrill ride -- The "Rock 'n' Roller Coaster starring Aerosmith" -- is coming to DCA in 2006.

I wonder if they'll add a subtitle to the name of the park (like Six Flags does).

If so I'll nominate Attack of the Clones.

Way to make people want to come to California guys (which was the original justification for DCA wasn't it?)!

[d-r]

Actually, I disagree. This would be a good move.

Jim Hill....

First of all, is there anyone who didn't think that DCA was adding rock n roller coaster after tower of terror? Haven't you seen that schematic thing showing how it fits in the "hollywood" area or whatever it is called?

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides? Please. These two e-tickets are not theme-less magic mountain rides - nore are they big thrills like X. Six flags like? Please, come on.

Third - isn't it funny that when DCA was opened hard core disney people complained that they were trying to make it more "edgy" away from the disneyland model. Then they added a bugs land. Now, they are changing their direction to be more "edgy?" HUH?

Fourth, one of the biggest complaints I've ever read about DCA was that it wasn't intereting to people from California, because the theme is "CALIFORNIA," and since most of the people who went to Disneyland were Californians, and the vast majority were westerners at least, this wasn't interesting and Disney had made a real mistake - now if they are trying to make it more interesting to Californians it is a mistake? I say thank goodness they have figured it out!! Disneyland is never going to be a week long destination like WDW, but it is a two or three night destination, and these additions make that more so.

Fifth, rock n roller coaster and tower of terror fit the California theme perfectly. It isn't like they have abandoned the theme, no matter how hard californians wish they would.

Finally, the other major complaint about DCA was that there were not enough major attractions - adding two e-tickets is a plus, I'd think. I've said before and I'll say again that tower of terror and rock n roller coaster will help dca. It will really benefit from a couple of high quality e-tickets. I just hope they get the budget to do it, and I wish they could have it in by 2005, but I don't think it will. And of course I hope that they will do something to help DISNEYLAND, especially TOMORROWLAND!~

DR

[Peter Pirate]

In the AK thread I counted the number of (what would generally be considered) quality rides at DCA and it's quite impressive (10).

Also, you're absolutely correct in pulling 'RnR' from the average ride list. It's theming and quality are superlative...

As for people travelling to see DCA, we've gone to DL two years in a row as a part of a 'Western Trip' and the advantages offered due to DCA were (in no small) part of the reason we went back the second year...

I too am amazed at the shift in negative opinion whenever Disney attmpts to do 'something'. It very often comes across as an 'I hate Eisner, Disney can do nothing good no matter what' attitude.' As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. Well this apparantey hasn't happned and now that the extremly good reviews are surfacing the doubters have not recanted...Simply faded away to attack another area. 'E:E' maybe...

[MelissathePooh]

I don't have the problem with clone rides that some people have. New things are good too, but WDW's Magic Kingdom was a virtual complete clone of Disneyland and its worked out just fine. If the attraction they're cloning is a good one to start with that is!

I think the main problem is the whole idea of Disneyland being a destination location. Its just not and I don't see how it ever could be - no offense to the residents, but have you ever seen Anaheim? Disneyland is pretty much a 3 day tops type trip. Now a person could then head off from there for a California trip and fill up as much time as they want, but Disneyland Resort itself is a pretty quick study.

Provided someone goes during the week - 2 days and the "Magic Kingdom" and you'll have done at least everything and most things twice - 1 day at CA - which is PLENTY even with the add's of ToT and perhaps RnRC.

Its never going to be a week long stay for the majority of vacationers.

But aside from all that I've never really seen Jim Hill as being the "official" spokesperson for Disney.

Melissa

[KNWVIKING]

Most of the rides currently there lean that direction already. Not sure where Bugs Life fits into the theme at this point,but it shouldn't be a major issue. I think a more thrill ride oriented park is a good match for DL. Between DL and DCA, you can basically offer something for the entire family.Mom and DD head to DL, dad and DS head over to DCA.

As for ride cloning: I really don't have a problem with cloning a good ride. I'd love for a WDW park to have a "Soarin' ride. Why should I have to travel 3000 miles for a ride ? Do the anti-clone people have a problem with WDW having a PoC or DL having Splash ? To me a good ride is a good ride. I don't care if there is one just like it in DL. And I'm not going to be upset if DCA gets an M:S.

[MelissathePooh]

Yeah - no one really complained too much when they "cloned" Splash Mountain at WDW :) (any of the mountains!)

Melissa

[HB2K]

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides? Please. These two e-tickets are not theme-less magic mountain rides - nore are they big thrills like X. Six flags like? Please, come on.
I don't have the problem with clone rides that some people have. New things are good too, but WDW's Magic Kingdom was a virtual complete clone of Disneyland and its worked out just fine. If the attraction they're cloning is a good one to start with that is!
Yeah - no one really complained too much when they "cloned" Splash Mountain at WDW (any of the mountains!)

OK....here goes.

First off - The rumored version of the rides to be installed in DCA are clones in name and function only. Very little of the theme elements are supposed to head west.

TOT is missing the 3rd Dimmension room, at minimum. The Rock & Rollercoaster clone is rumored to have NONE of the Aerosmith elements the RnR has in Orlando.

So using the rumored RnR I'll answer the question above....is it any better than a ride at Six Flags without the Aerosmith tie in?

For my money....No. Try Skull Mountain at Six Flags Great Adventure....it's a similar coaster (through the dark with black light stand ins). The only thing that sets RnR apart is the Aerosmith story & preshow.

And to the point of the cloned Mountains...

I probably wouldn't have as much of a problem with the clones if they were done better than the original...but we all know that's not the way Disney operates any more.

The pirates clone in Florida was forced on Disney...It was demanded by the general public, and once it was determined to be built, it was seen not as a way to economize existing technology or blueprints but as a way to correct things that were done wrong the first time.....it's a lesson Disney should learn from with regard to their newest clones....

[KNWVIKING]

I always thought DL got the Splash Mountain clone, WDW had the original. Was I misinformed ?


*** "First off - The rumored version of the rides to be installed in DCA are clones in name and function only. Very little of the theme elements are supposed to head west.

TOT is missing the 3rd Dimmension room, at minimum. The Rock & Rollercoaster clone is rumored to have NONE of the Aerosmith elements the RnR has in Orlando." ***

I've never read these rumors. It will be interesting to see the finished product. Seems odd though to spend the money to build a RnR coaster and cheap out on the Aerosmith portion.

[KNWVIKING]

*** "The pirates clone in Florida was forced on Disney...It was demanded by the general public, and once it was determined to be built, it was seen not as a way to economize existing technology or blueprints but as a way to correct things that were done wrong the first time.....it's a lesson Disney should learn from with regard to their newest clones...." ***

Okay, now I'm really confused.Everything I've heard,read and seen is that the WDW clone was a rushed,poor imatation of the original. And from my own ride experience,I'd agree. IMO the DL original is by far the better ride.

[Spectro is #1]

Second of all, is there anyone who really thinks that tower of terror or rock n roller coaster are six flags type rides?

From my recent Back Stage Magic Tour Guide James

"RnRC is an off the shelf ride system, anyone can buy one"

The quote was in refrance to what makes Disney Disney. Mainly the Disney Characters and the branding they bring.

[KNWVIKING]

***"Also, I've always been told that the WDW version of Splash Mtn. is much more detailed and better than the DL version." ***

Absolutely. I meant to include a similar statement in my above post but lost my train of thought.

Both DW and I prefer DL's PotC and WDW's Splash. The DL version of Splash just seemed way to dark, like they were trying to hide the lack of detail by turning down the lights.

[crusader]

No way is RnRC in the same ballpark as Skull Mountain. The launch and loop alone make a substantial difference. I get your point but there's not much beyond the track type that you can say is at all equivalent. Hey - its' nice to see someone else lurking in my neck of the woods.

Last time I went to Six Flags I spent two hours there and left. It's nothing compared to the west coast or cedarpoint and Superman is way too slow and mild. (I'm talking about the new coaster at Great Adventure not Magic Mountain)

But enough of that - back to DCA............
This is a great thing they are attempting to do with this park. It needs to compete with the other parks out there which means - more thrill and intensity!

Why is X so great? Because its' one of a kind and worth the price of admission. The West Coast is notorious for innovention which is definately attractive to a young adult. I view ToT and RnRC as quick additions to a failing park. Hopefully more unique and cutting edge as the Mummy purports to be will also be lurking in the plans.

[pheneix]

>>>As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. Well this apparantey hasn't happned and now that the extremly good reviews are surfacing the doubters have not recanted...Simply faded away to attack another area.<<<

If you want me to bring over my review of Space from LP I'll be happy to oblige...

[HB2K]

Just a quick post before hitting the sack...

I don't remember where I read it (I think it was Hill, but I could be wrong), but I remember reading a history regarding New Orleans Square and the whole Pirates Galley / Pirates of the Carribean attraction.

From what I remember Pirates was supposed to be a walk through attraction until Walt put the kibosh on it. From this point on I believe the attraction was mothballed until the boat system was developed. Since the foundation for the attraction had been poured certain elements could not be changed.

One of the elements I remember reading about was the queue. Marc Davis did what he could with what was there, but in general it wasn't anything to write home about (I've never been to DL*)

Then once MK opens in Florida without Pirates and the public begins berating guest relations about it, a decision was made to bring Pirates East. I remember reading that Davis was excited about the opportunity to build the attraction right and from the ground up.

Is it better than DL's version? I couldn't honestly tell you, but I posted on what I remember reading about the attraction. Maybe it's wrong.

Also, I've always been told that the WDW version of Splash Mtn. is much more detailed and better than the DL version.

From what I've been told I agree with you Scoop. I just had the timelines wrong.

I was trying to remember Hill's history lesson on it and I remember the story going as Tony Baxter coming up with the idea for DL....but I'm working with little sleep lately so I could once again be wrong...and I'm starting to remember that the DL project got shelved but was reborn when Ei$ner's son saw it and they put in WDW.....so the lesson?

I'm a sleep deprived idiot. :)

Sorry for my last post....certain points appear to be wrong. I'll admit them :)

* To be honest I think this is one of the reasons I hate DCA. I really wanted a Disney alternative to WDW...and when I heard of the plans to expand Anahiem I was tenatively excited about it....but the finished product just can't convince me to go out there....

[Another Voice]

"As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. "

Oh - you mean they actually went ahead and programmed the joysticks to control the cabin (as in the original plan) and for a different show to happen if you didn't push the button correctly (as in the original plan) or the extensive themed interior of the spinner chamber (as in the original plan) or the Mars Spaceport post show (as in the original plan).

My, things are looking up.


As for Califorina Adventure - pave it over. You are not going to get any more locals showing up for yet another knock-off cheap mini-coaster. Disney knows it, they just don't care.

[HorizonsFan]

How many finished attractions actually match the original plan?

[Cratster]

i think that the six flag type rides are really popular to the public right now. take for example epcot. that park's attendance is fading fast. people want thrill rides and if disney want to compete they have to rebrand that way. the only ride for example at epcot is test track which in my opinion is a six flags type ride. i don't think that it is a bad idea at all. the attendance will probably go back up.

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Spectro is #1...
From my recent Back Stage Magic Tour Guide James

"RnRC is an off the shelf ride system, anyone can buy one"

The quote was in refrance to what makes Disney Disney. Mainly the Disney Characters and the branding they bring.

It's not clear which way you intended this... so I might be agreeing with you, but I just wanted to say that I think "renting AeroSmith" is a poor example of "what makes Disney Disney."

I enjoy a ride on RnRC as much as the next guy, but it's not extraordinary coaster on any scale, save perhaps that of "inside or outside."

Adding these clones to DCA will likely redistribute some population across the Disneyland resort, and that might be enough to justify their expense at some level, but I can't understand how anyone would expect to start attracting a new "thrill seeking" audience with them.

[d-r]

Originally posted by Another Voice
"As proof I offer the huge initial resistence to 'M:S', some even guranteed it would be scaled back to 'nothing'. "

Oh - you mean they actually went ahead and programmed the joysticks to control the cabin (as in the original plan) and for a different show to happen if you didn't push the button correctly (as in the original plan) or the extensive themed interior of the spinner chamber (as in the original plan) or the Mars Spaceport post show (as in the original plan).

My, things are looking up.



AV..... it is looking up, isn't it?

I mean, remember back when they were making Aladdin's carpet ride in Magic Kingdom. This was a little over two years ago. We knew they would be coming out with dinorama's triceritop spinner in a year, and everyone was joking about all the spinners they were putting in. That there hadn't been any attractions to "wow and amaze" and gcurling said that space was coming. This was two years ago an we didn't know much about it - it was still vague, and you said:

"gcurling - you are aware, aren't you, that 'Mission:Space" is a spinner."

So, yeah, things sure are looking up from that!

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133&perpage=15&highlight=%20alladin%20%20carpet&pagenumber=1

(what is funny on here is that Larworth says - two years ago - that tot and rnrc are coming to dca).

In this thread you said there would be no pre-show:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=318850&highlight=%2Bmission+%2Bspace

In this thread you argue that it will be a poorly themed thrill ride only:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=317515&perpage=15&highlight=%20mission%20%20space&pagenumber=5

you and scoop went around and round arguing about mission:space.

AV - will your glass every be 1/2 full on mission:space? What I mean is, from all reports it sounds like it is better than you thought it would be, but each time you keep finding something to be wrong with it. The way you are playing it, it can NEVER succeed, there will always be something that it wasn't. I mean, we all know that with any project there will be ideas that are abandoned. Surely it sounds better than you have projected it to be in the past. I don't know how good it is, I haven't been there since it has been open - AV, when was the last time you were in Florida?

DR

[crusader]

I'm sure they care about DCA - they just don't want to expend major capital to bring it to where it needs to be right now. They certainly can fix this park. Paving it over is a bit extreme but very comical as always.

The reason I see the shift in marketing as a great move is because of what DCA represents which is more in line with the other parks in the area. The main reason it is viewed as crap is because the rides are too mediocre. If they bring in one or two big guns and get that coveted thrill seekers endorsement you cannot convince me that we won't see a dramatic turnaround in attendance.

I also agree that RnRC and ToT are not big enough to drive the competition, but they certainly are great improvements and easy to accomodate so it makes sense that they are being added.

[d-r]

Now hang on a minute, Scoop - please don't you or anyone else misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to slam AV. On the contrary, I am quite positive that anything he said was based on good info at the time he said it - gosh, he's proved that many times and I don't doubt it. I meant my point to be that if something turns out to be better than you thought it would be, it is OK to admit it - to yourself as well as others. It still isn't perfect, but it is the result of human enterprise and it never will be - there will always be something abot it that isn't.

It's a glass 1/2 full/empty thing.

Again, I haven't seen it, but from what I hear it turned out better than AV - and others here - thought it would.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. Please know I don't ever write things here to be malicious, even if I get argumentative.

DR

[Bob O]

Yes RNRC is a clone of a coaster that is already in a Six Flags park.
As for its impact in DCA, i think it will be minimal. It will get a little buzz when first opened but the ride doesnt have enough exciting elements to make people want to ride it often or give anyone a reason to come to the park. It is an average coaster at best and not much of an improvement on Space mountain. In fact Space mountain configured with some inversions would be beter than RNRC.
Now a launched coaster with several inversions and a height limit of 200 ft could give people a reeason to visit, escpecailly with elements added to make it a themed ride.
But of course disney is too cheap to do this!!!

[MelissathePooh]

Just some cloning FYI's:

Space Mountain
WDW - 1975
DL - 1977

Big Thunder Mountain RR
DL - 1979
WDW - 1980

Splash Mountain
DL - 1989
WDW - 1992

Star Tours
DL - 1987
WDW - 1990

Honey I Shrunk...
WDW - 1994
DL - 1998

Pirates of the Caribbean
DL - 1967
WDW - 1973

Haunted Mansion
DL - 1969
WDW - 1971

Winnie the Pooh
WDW - 1999
DL - 2003

Without hitting all of them as there are so many - those are kind of the newer or the biggies.

Melissa

[DVC-Landbaron]

At the risk of "Being DR'd", the One-Trick-Pony chimes in.

And it really is a “one trick” kind of thing. I’d like to speak to your comment quoted below:
It's a glass 1/2 full/empty thing.

In 1968 Disney “proved” itself to me. In 1972 the confirmed my belief in their system. In 1982, although no further verification was needed, they again applied their philosophy and blew me away!!!!!!!!!

So, believe me, I was definitely a 1/2 full kind of guy when it came to Disney. I ‘accepted’ everything Disney gave me. Some hits. Some misses, but never, NEVER did I anticipate anything but sheer wonder from them. Heck!! I even bought the DVC interest, sight-unseen, just because it was Disney!!

“How could it be bad? - - IT’S DISNEY!!!”

However, that was way back in 1992. I think you and I can agree that an awful lot has changed in the meantime. So that while once Disney NEVER had to prove itself to me, sadly today it does. I believe none of the hype, none of the glitz and especially none of the spin that accompanies their ‘official’ press releases.

I think that many share this opinion. While I don’t want to speak for AV, I think he will agree. Where once I was thoroughly content to be simply WOWed by next new Disney ‘thing’, I am now extremely cynical, very cautious and quite frankly, not very optimistic.

Why? Because they poured the glass back in 1955. And like the old coffee commercials filled it to the cup and a half level. And since a certain CEO took over they have been emptying that cup. And emptying... and emptying... and... Until today it is - “half empty.”

I truly hope that I am WOWed by Space. I hope it exceeds my expectations. I am such a Disney nut that it honestly won’t take much. Just that good old fashioned philosophy applied to a ‘spinner’. It ain’t impossible. Just not very likely.

[mitros]

:( There are a number of folks on this site that think only their thoughts and ideas count. Think about it before you rant at someone else's opinion. After all everyone is indeed entitled to their opinion on matters, just like you are. Please give it a thought..:rolleyes: Remember, you DO NOT know everything, although you may think so. PS: this is not necessarily in regard to this thread..... But you know who you are.

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by HB2K

For my money....No. Try Skull Mountain at Six Flags Great Adventure....it's a similar coaster (through the dark with black light stand ins). The only thing that sets RnR apart is the Aerosmith story & preshow.
Whoa... whoa... whoa... hold the phone and hit rewind! Are you seriously trying to compare Skull Mountain to Rock N' Roller Coaster?!?!?! Hahahaha.... I needed a good laugh after the day I had.

[roymccoy]

Peterpirate....just out of curiousity, how do you count "10 high quality rides at DCA"?

Soarin Over California
California Screamin'
Muppetvision 3D
Grizzly Rapids
WWTBAM
Playhouse Disney


What am I missing? The Tortilla Factory?

Roy

[d-r]

land baron
maybe I should say don't keep pouring that half out everytime something gets poured in it, I guess I'm stretching the metaphor too far -

what I mean is why keep looking so hard for something to be wrong that when you fnd out the first thing you thought would be wrong with it isn't going to happen you find a second thing, and when that second thing isn't going to happen you find a third thing and so on. It isn't just AV he just got exampled because I listen to him enough to remember what he says.

I know there are things that have disappointed you, you know things have disappointed me. But that doesn't mean everything will suck, just like not everything will be fairy tale pixie dust.

oh yeah, scoop, I did use the search.

DR

[Peter Pirate]

roymccoy, in addition to your list (of six items) I included the absolutely fantastic Aladdin Show (7), The Animation Building (8), Fliks Fun Faire (very good indeed for the tykes) (9) and the under construction Tower of Terror (10).

Add to this the fact that my youngest LOVED the Orange Stinger Spinner and we had an absolutely unbeatable lunch at the Wine Restaraunt (whatever the name) and DCA was a nice day and a half for us.

BTW, I did have some gripes about DCA to be sure, I just haven't seen the forum or had the time to bring it up...This board generally isn't too intesested in DL...

Mr. Pony, despite all of the fantastic reviews of M:S you still prefer to "Eisner" it? This is why conversation is so difficult...;)

[Another Voice]

Hmmm…

A line with a big spinning prop, two videos. Yup – "pre-show".

No interaction on the ride, the entire point is to squeeze your sinus until they drain through your ears. Yup - "more than thrills"

Walk around the blank hallways and step inside your pod with no attempt to hide the ride mechanism. Yup – "themed to the hilt".

Play a computer game and shop. Yep – a full pavilion that explores the entire topic of space.


Why is the glass half full – because all I hear are people making excuses for Disney ("we all know that with any project there will be ideas that are abandoned") rather than holding them up to high standards people claim they have.

And I because I understand that "better" can still fall short of "the best".


P.S. - Again Mr. Pirate, you might have had a wonderful time at DCA, but millions and millions of other people haven't. To deny that Disney has a major problem on their hands just becasue you had a good dinner is to deny the basic principles of running a business.

[shariskates]

I don't see what's wrong with "cloning" popular rides. Personally, I have no desire to go to California, so I will probably never see Disneyland. So I was thrilled when we got Thunder and Splash... hell, I'm still waiting for an Indiana Jones clone... yes I know there is the stunt spectacular, I just don't think it's that spectacular.

Perhaps when they clone RnRC, they will add a new story, a new band.... something to make it different from it's sister in Florida. It doesn't matter to me, I love Disney, MK is my favorite park and always will be. Say whatever you want, I love that greedy little mouse.

Sharon

[Another Voice]

"Can you honestly look back at everything you've done in the last however many years and say that every time it was the best?"

Absolutely not.

I work hard on my projects. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. But I am utimately responsible.

I don't whine about how expensive it was. I don't have people making excuses for it. I don't demand that people accept less because I'm unwilling to put out the extra effort. I don't tell people "better be happy with what you get". I don't expect people to ignore the flaws or the problems. I don't shift the blame somewhere else, even if they # deserve it.

And I sure don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever say "it's good enough". In fact, I fired the last guy who told me that.

In short, the difference is I try. That's something Disney seems to have forgotten. From Dino-Rama, every square millimeter of California Adventure to budget knock off of 'Pooh' and 'Tower' – and yes, even to the quarter of the Space pavilion they had someone else pay for. There isn't a single stretch, a single reaching beyond the norm, a single risk to be great. All they want is "just good enough".

I guess there's anouther difference. I don't run a $20 billion company with resources that could buy countries. It's one thing to do your very best with limited resources, it's quit another to do little with a great deal.

How's this for not trying – Disney spent three times the budget of 'Mission: Space' on airplane leases for United Airlines. Disney lost every single penny. Disney can't even bother to invest in their own core business and then people make excuses because Disney couldn't afford to build something better?

Is this the way Disney tries to earn your money and your loyalty? They had the entire Universe as their story – billions of worlds to explore and sights beyond imagination. And all they came up with was "I least I didn't hurl".

For some, I guess, it's just good enough.



P.S. And yes, I do know what it feels like when you don't follow the rules and turn your head to the side. The headache lasted for an hour.

[d-r]

All right, then, I haven't seen it so I can't say anything about it.

[crusader]

And yes, I do know what it feels like when you don't follow the rules and turn your head to the side. The headache lasted for an hour.

Nonconformists typically have that problem. (can you feeeel the smiley?????)

I want to say thanks AV because I hear you. I really do.

I also want to say I agree. Whoa!

BUT (there's always a but) what you often fail to concede on is that perfection is something we always strive for but rarely achieve. Did Walt ever really feel satisfied that what he had accomplished was beyond improvement? I doubt it. Did he raise the bar so high that it had to be lowered? of course not.

So what's really going on? According to you the company is spending the bare minimum on improvements and wasting excessive amounts on failed ventures. Golden carrots dangling out there which seem so appealing and could quickly grow the company but come at a very hefty price and equally high risk. Sounds very similar to the stock market.

Did this happen? Absolutely. Is this happening? No. So when do we stop criticizing the past mistakes and start focusing on the future. I'm really not making any excuses. I do believe the company should strive to deliver only the best. I also realize the strain its' under because of how far it sunk. So what that says is: Yes, I'm willing to accept the fact that you can see the pod and equally willing to embrace the fact that this company has once again broken new ground with this attraction.

By no means am I blinded by a storm of pixie dust. I'm watching very carefully and wholeheartedly I might add.

[Peter Pirate]

M. Voice, please note that I specifically said I had many "issues" with DCA in the very same thread. Also, on many occasions I have discussed my feelings on the BIG, GIANT mistaks that went into DCA. But just like M:S some of us don't feel the need to lump it all together and scream "there's only one solution"!!!!

It's great that you were able to ride M:S already (I asume that is what you meant) - Obviously none of those folks know you as 'Another Voice'... But as your opinion with M:S and DCA is consistent so is the fact that you refuse to see another possible point of view and that is that despite the evil guy at the top it appears some good directional changes are being made to Disney (as has been pointed out on these boards).

If you really think the biggest issue with M:S is that it cold have been better, then I don't disagree but in using that philosophy, it's really too bad Walt was so dad gum shortsighted (or Cheap)that he didn't think of intermixing real people pirates with the animatronics, boy what an ever changing & lively show that could have been...If only...

[doombuggy]

you might have had a wonderful time at DCA, but millions and millions of other people haven't. To deny that Disney has a major problem on their hands just becasue you had a good dinner is to deny the basic principles of running a business.
I and my 2 cousins had a great time at DCA last year, so don't count me in the "millions and millions" group. Wait a minute - if "millions and millions" have been there in the 3 (/) years since it opened, it would be successful, wouldn't it?:confused:

Just my opinion, of course..........

As for riding M:S, I think it's open for cast previews right now, but don't hold me to it.

I have been to 2 Six Flags Parks (Astroworld in Houston, and Great Adventure in NJ). I LOVE thrill rides, but WDW or DL is more than that. I guess why that's why I go to these parks as often as I do instead of GA (which is only 1 1/2 hours from me).

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by doombuggy
I and my 2 cousins had a great time at DCA last year, so don't count me in the "millions and millions" group. Wait a minute - if "millions and millions" have been there in the 3 (/) years since it opened, it would be successful, wouldn't it?:confused:

Just my opinion, of course..........


Some people don't need to eat a **** sandwich to know it's not going to taste good.

:eek: :jester: ;)

[doombuggy]

Originally posted by doombuggy: I and my 2 cousins had a great time at DCA last year, so don't count me in the "millions and millions" group. Wait a minute - if "millions and millions" have been there in the 3 (/) years since it opened, it would be successful, wouldn't it?

Some people don't need to eat a **** sandwich to know it's not going to taste good.

EUROPA, what are you trying to say to me, that I am a **** because I enjoyed Soarin', Calif. Screamin', etc???

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by doombuggy
EUROPA, what are you trying to say to me, that I am a **** because I enjoyed Soarin', Calif. Screamin', etc???

Not even close. It simply means that you don't need to experience some things to know that you will not like it. That is why there are millions and millions of people that know that DCA is not up to Disney standards. First hand experience is not required for all things.