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View Full Version : Need advice on how/where to write Delta about our HORRIBLE flight(LONG)


idontknow
05-29-2001, 10:46 AM
Well, we had a wonderful weekend at the HRH! I looked for green ribbons, but could not seem to find any. Sorry I missed all that were there.

Here's my problem:

I need to know who to write to and how to put what happened on our return flight. We made it to Atlanta alright, but trying to leave there was a nightmare! I read a post last week about how someone's flight was held up because someone did not want to check their bag and insisted that they be able to have it on the plane with them. Here's another story, sort of, about a similar situation.....

Our flight was delayed 10 minutes, not bad. I can handle that. (because of the captain) When we boarded it was pouring rain outside and they made us walk to the plane. They had the covered pull out thing only part way to the plane and we stood in the blowing rain for another 10 minutes while they took 2 people at a time to the plane with an umbrella. (seemed like they were doing what they could to make things go as smooth as possible, but why didn't they have a long enough canapy or pull the plane up closer?) Everyone was soaked when we got on board the plane and then we froze until they shut the door over 30 minutes later. (I'm getting to that part) The attendant starts checking the baggage under the seats and gets to the couple on the other side of the isle from us. Before she even looks to see if their bags fit under the seat, she told them in a nasty voice that she needed their bags so they could check them and put them in the hold. (don't know if that is the right word or not) The man said that was alright and the bags were fine were they were. She said "no, you don't understand, they are too big and I need to check them!" in a VERY nasty voice. This went on for a few minutes and she finally went to the captain about it. The couples bags were not sticking out past the back of the seat in front of them and the attendant didn't even check our bag or the rest of the peoples bags behind us. It was like she zeroed in on this couple and would not let up. The man even told her that they had flown the same kind of plane on the way down and the bags were fine then and asked what the difference was between then and now. (the man never got nasty with the attendant. He was firm with his wording, but never nasty to her) What really erks me about this, so far, is the fact that there is a 10 year old sitting in an exit seat and playing with the latch, but the attendant never said a word to his mother or told them he could not sit there. (they were part of a big group so they only would have had to change with someone else in their party) A few minutes later, a maintance guy gets on the plane. We thought he was coming to take the mans bags away from him. Instead, he is there to check to make sure the other exit door is closed properly. There was water coming in from the latch and the woman that was sitting there was sitting in a wet seat. The captain comes on and tells us that we will be delayed for a little bit to make sure the problem with the door is fixed before we take off. Shortly after that, a woman in a red blazer gets on and comes back to the couple next to us and demands that he give her the bags so she can check them. (big, burly, nasty attitude woman) She tells the man that he is holding up the plane and they will not stand for that anymore. (obviously a HUGE lie! We were waiting for the door to be fixed) The woman behind him tells the red coated woman that the flight attendant was just nasty to the man, and before she has a chance to say anything else, the red coated woman tells her to be quiet and that she is not talking to her! The passanger woman asks if this is how delta treats their customers and that the red coated woman had no right talking to her like that. The red coated woman tells the passenger woman if she does not like it she can throw the passenger woman off of the plane along with the man refusing to give up his bags. (now, at no time did the passenger woman say anything mean or nasty to the red coated woman. She was pleasant and just wanted to inform the red coated woman what had happened before she got there) At this point I am steaming mad! When the red coated woman got on the plane she looked right at the 10 year old in the exit seat and walked right past him. Just as the red coated woman grabbed the bags from the man I said excuse me....what about the child in the exit seat? If you are going to nit pick about the bags, what about him? At that point the childs mother turned around and scouled at me and the red coated woman got nasty with me. I did not say a word to her after I informed her about the child in the seat. I did not want to give her any reason to throw me off of the plane. I thought if I informed her and then shut up, they would make the child move. Nope, I got a dose of what the passenger woman got. The red coated woman started to walk off of the plane and stopped and said something about the child to the attendant. The attendant then comes back and informs the mother that her child can not sit in that seat. The woman turns around and starts yelling at me that if I wouldn't have said anything........yada, yada, yada......and I must want to trade seats with her because her child can't sit in that seat. At that point I just said that he was not old enough to sit there and she should change seats with someone else in her party. She starts yelling that she is not leaving her sons side. I didn't say anything else. I was not in the wrong about informing the crew about the child in the exit seat. (it really scared me when he started messing with the latch to the exit door, that is the reason I said something in the first place) Because I did inform someone, I was verbally attacted by this woman and no did anything to stop her! (not to mention the red coated woman)

So, we're all ready to go and the captain tells us that the airconditioner is broken so it is going to get hot until we get in the air, so hope we can get a good slot and get up fast. (he was very informative and nice during the entire flight) One last check of the leaking exit door and we are good to go. ( crew said it would leak until we got in the air and the cabin pressurized) We start taxi-ing and he come back on and tells us that there are atleast 33 other planes ahead of us and he is going to have the attendant comp our drinks for the flight. (something about the airport was all but shut down for a little while. If we would not have had to deal with the leaking door, we would have been in line quicker and had been able to take off sooner) She hands out bottled water and pretzels. Over 40 minutes later we make it to the head of the line and take off. We are now 2 hours late. When the attendant starts the bev cart, she gets to my DH and gives him his drink and PEANUTS and bypasses me. She moves on and I raise my hand and ask for something when she is done with the passengers she is now getting drinks for. She says "I thought you were asleep." (I don't normally sleep with my eyes open) I ask for a beer and tomato juice and she says all of the beer is warm. OK, no prob, vodka and tomato juice. (but why is the beer warm in the first place???? I'm confused) When we are just about to land, she comes on and starts giving the "hail delta" speach. I have never heard someone talk as long as this attendant did. It's funny, because about half way thru the flight, someone behind us mentioned how the attendant must like the sound of her own voice because of how many times she used the intercom. The woman behind us had that right!;)

Our scheduled Delta/ASA flight 10:25pm arrival became a midnight arrival. We called DH's parents to pick us up from the airport when we got inside. They were there before our bags. All we heard during and now after the flight, is "sorry for the inconvenience........"

Here's the questions:

I think I have a right to complain, is there any reason I would not? (do you know something I don't?)
Who do I write to and where?
Did I have a right to say anything about the 10 year old in the exit seat or was I wrong?
Rule 240 does NOT apply, right?
Any other comments or suggestions are welcome.

I just don't like how we were treated by the attendant or the red coat woman. (who as she?) And then being stuck on a "broken" plane to add to all of the other mess. The other 3 planes we rode on for this weekend trip was nothing like this last flight. It was horrible. But if this is what the airlines are calling normal, we'll drive from now on. I just don't understand how the other 3 flights went so smooth and this last one really stunk. Am I being unreasonable to be so upset about this?

TravelSheryl
05-29-2001, 11:03 AM
Yes, this is appropriate for communicating to Delta Customer Relations. I have read over and over that when complaining to the airlines in writing, it is far better to be succinct and only list the major issues. If you send a letter as long as your post, it may not be read as thoroughly as you would hope for it to be.

Rule 240 does not apply, so that should not be mentioned.

I would highlight the rudeness and the safety issue (child in an exit row seat which is an FAA violation).

Airline employees stationed at the airport wearing a Red Coat (they are referred to as Red Coats) are supervisors.

Contact information for Delta Air Lines is at the bottom of this page http://www.delta.com/care/service_plan/index.jsp

Beckles
05-29-2001, 12:06 PM
Without commenting on the specific tones of voice, no matter how anyone is asked, I'm not sure they are ever in the right if they disobey the request of a flight attendant about a safety matter, which the stowage of carry-on luggage certainly is. I travel a good bit, and I would never claim to be more knowledgable in such safety manners as a flight attendant, whose primary job is passenger safety. These persons were ignoring the requests of a flight attendant on a safety issue, so what is the problem? If she had asked nicely, I would guess the passengers reactions would have still been to refuse the request.

As for the child in the exit row, that is definitely something you should have pointed out and were definitely right doing so.

idontknow
05-29-2001, 05:14 PM
Thank you for the info. I will sit down and list what the major problems were and then rewrite it to give some detail for an explination.

We have flown delta many times. If I were to add up all of the problems we have had in the past, they would not equal out to how bad this flight was. I guess I'm just used to saying "let me talk to your manager" when there is a problem, but when there isn't a manager around to talk to and there is only 1 flight attendant, I didn't know what to do. I felt completely at the mercy of this nasty flight attendant.

On a side note, I commended the attendant on the flight down to Atlanta. It was the first time I could understand every word that was said. She was very nice and even though there were interesting passengers on the flight, she took it in stride and never batted an eyelash of rudeness. (granted this was at 6am and not 6pm at the end of the day) I will put that at the letter, too. Thank you again!

gm
05-29-2001, 06:37 PM
what does rule 240 basically mean?:confused: :)

mattlm
05-29-2001, 06:44 PM
Yes, there are Federal rules and laws we must follow. None the less, we are their customers (we pay the their bills) and we expect to be treated with respect.

Delta's Chief of Station in Atlanta is C.D. Turner. Write him a letter presenting the facts without emotion or sarcasm and I bet you get a thoughtful response - he's a good man.

mrsstats
05-29-2001, 07:31 PM
I had a problem with Delta in March. Rude attendants also. Sent Delta an e-mail and never heard another word from them. But I got it off my chest.

TravelSheryl
05-29-2001, 08:08 PM
gm, Rule 240 refers to the airline's obligation to the passenger in case of a flight irregularity. If you go to http://www.onetravel.com and click on Rules of the Air on the lefthand side of the page, you will be taken to a page where you can select an airline and read the rules for various issues that can arise during your travel.

Beckles
05-29-2001, 08:09 PM
I'm sorry, but I just re-read the anecdote, and I'm still reading that the entire incident was caused by a passenger refusing to check their bag as asked by the flight attendant. If the passenger had done as asked the first time, the entire "incident" would have been avoided. As I said, given the passenger's insistence (according to the anecdote the exchange went on for "several minutes") they would have refused regardless of the tone in which the request was directed at the passenger.

I don't see how this is the airline's fault that a passenger refused to comply with the FA's request.

robinb
05-29-2001, 08:52 PM
There was no reason for the Red Coat to take out her frustration over the uncooperative passenger on other passengers. Intimitating the other passengers with threats of having them removed from the plane was totally uncalled for. All for the henious crime of questioning her. The child in the exit row is frosting on the cake. Not only was the child playing with the door, but he would not have been able to help passengers out of the plane in the event of an emergency. If the flight attendents were so worried about safety, they should have taken care of him before removing baggage.

Beverly Lynn
05-29-2001, 08:55 PM
regardless of the fact that the psgr didn't do it the attitude and rudeness of the flt attnd was still uncalled for. you should also forward a copy of that same letter the station manager out of your airport as well. you can also forward a copy to the D.O.T. (dept of transportation. ) they also keep a file on complaints of carriers. do you by chance have the name of the flt attnd? and make sure that you mention yor seat nbrs as well they can refer to the manifest and if necessary contact the people in the seats that you are speaking about.

wackywitch
05-29-2001, 09:24 PM
Being the kind of devil that only wackywitch can be, I think (since the plane was still on the ground and the door was still open) I would have taken out my cell phone and placed a call to my mother. The conversation probably would have gone a little like this:

"Hi Mom! It's me.....no we haven't taken off yet but there's some information I want you to have in case this aircraft crashes. Yep....you ready? Ok...there's a small child in the exit row playing with the door latch...yes, yes, I know......what? Oh about 5 or 6. Yes....yes he is...he seems to be fascinated with it and will probably play with it during the entire flight. What was that?? Yes....he's wearing his seat belt, but he'll probably still be sucked out first with the entire row.

Oh...and there's some kind of altercation going on between the flight attendant and a passenger regarding their luggage and Delta's safety rules....oh you can hear that? Yes, that's what that is....I know.

Now, if we happen do blow up in mid air or crash for some reason, then you'll want to keep this information handy and use it when you sue the airlines....Yep...yes..... Love you, too. Bye Bye!"

Of course, I'd make sure I spoke loudly enough that I could be heard, but not so loud that I was making it obvious. ;)

msdis
05-29-2001, 10:35 PM
WOW! What a horrible story. I'm not sure why the couple did not trust the flight attendant with their luggage but it sure did help to make for a scary situation.
What really bothers me is that child sitting in the exit seat and playing with the handle. I'm sure an alarm would have gone off,at least I hope so, indicating it was not tightly closed/locked. But that should have been the first and foremost incident to catch an attendant's eye. I'm sure when you pointed it out to her, you had distracted her from the fire she had already built and a bit of the flames came in your direction. You were in a way, and rightfully so, pointing out that fact that she was out of control in a situation that required less attention than the child situation, and she stepped over the line to let you and anyone else know that she was the one with ALL the power. And what was that mother thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My god, her kid could have killed everyone on that plane. SHE should have known better and ASKED to be switched.
Wackywitch-I love your reply.....it would have been just what the situation needed. Only I think I would have called 911.

TravelSheryl
05-29-2001, 10:41 PM
FANTASTIC post, Wackywitch. :p

Beckles
05-30-2001, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by robinb
There was no reason for the Red Coat to take out her frustration over the uncooperative passenger on other passengers ... etc, etc, etc ...

Yes, and there was no reason for the red coat to even be on the plane except for the passenger repeatedly refusing to comply with the FA's request, after which it sounds like the situation deteriorated further.

Maybe the FA's and the red coat were rude, but I still don't see how you can support someone who repeatedly refused an FA's request to check their baggage.

So now instead of the FA's being in charge of safety, I guess the passengers should get to decide what is most safe? I guess it should be a debate among the passengers and the airline personnel? That sounds like a good idea ...

idontknow
05-30-2001, 08:04 AM
Wacky- when we lined up for take off the pilot said we could use our cell phones to contact relatives to let them know we would be late. I did just what you wrote! LOL I made sure that everyone in the seats involved and the FA heard me. (scary how we think alike. LOL) I wanted to have her look up Delta's phone number so I could call them from the plane, but figured that it would not do any good and they might throw me off of the flight for doing so. I just wanted to get home and deal with it from my own home.

I have to get DS on the bus, but I'll post a little later to some of your other comments. Thanks to everyone for letting me know I'm not "nuts". LOL

VickiVM
05-30-2001, 08:05 AM
Beckles, you wouldn't by any chance be a Red Coat or FA by profession??? I agree with you 100%. But I think the point of the poster regarding this whole nasty situation was that the confrontational behavior of the airline personnel only inflamed the ordeal even further. This is a customer service oriented business and the airline people are supposed to be trained to diffuse these types of situations...especially in this day and age. A change of tone and inflection of the voice would have probably gone a long way in averting an all passenger free for all. I know I've been in situations where the client/customer is being "corrected" by the service representatives and I keep my mouth shut because it's none of my business. But for other passengers to comment to the Red Coat about the behavior of the FA, then the behavior must have been so out of character and inappropriate to warrant her to speak out. Let's face it, we all take our chances flying anywhere these days...will we have that out of control drunk on our plane that we read about in the papers, will we have that one flight of the day that is delayed 2 hours or worse, cancelled unexpectedly, will our FA be grouchy and non-accomodating...But bottom line, right or wrong, we as the customer deserve to be served in a pleasant and non-confrontational manner. That's just my belief after 13 years in retail field and store management.

Beverly Lynn
05-30-2001, 08:48 AM
as for the passenger who refused to move his bag since none of us were on the plane and we don't know we really can't judge now can we? and irregardless if he refused to cooperate or not there still is no need for rudeness. in fact all of us airline employees have been put thru numerous customer svc classes and have always been told no matter what we keep that smile on our face and in our voice. what she should have done at that point is either take the bags or remove him from the plane. that is of course the instructions we were all given and that is posted at the counters etc. in fact the FA should have gotten the pilot as he has the final say if someone rides or not.
idontknow out of curiosity could you see the bags sticking out that made it catch the FA's attention?
and the first thing an FA is supposed to do when people board an aircraft and they see people sitting in the exit row is walk to them and explain that they may have to perform safety things etc. and then if anyone sitting in that row does not meet the criteria then they must change their seats. The weekly memos passed down to the tkt cntr and gate warning of seating issues is unbelievable. part of the problem is that once on the aircraft people switch and this is how a child sometimes gets in there. before we can assign a seat at the airport we must physically see the person that will be sitting in that seat. And typicaly its up to the gate agent as people are boarding to also notice the carry ons that passengers are bringing on with thema nd then if it passes them once they get into the door the FA also is to look at them. if they see one that is too big then they usually offer to check it for them or help them get it into the overhead compartment. (this is procedure not to say its actually done this way)

Beckles
05-30-2001, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by VickiVM
Beckles, you wouldn't by any chance be a Red Coat or FA by profession???

Umm, no, but I travel a fair bit, including 200+ segments on Delta in the past five years.

Does anyone really think the passenger would have complied with the FA's request regardless of how it was first asked? I really don't think so ...

There's a root cause to the entire incident, and that is the passenger refusing to check their bag as asked. Some Delta employees may or may not have been rude, but fact of the matter is they shouldn't even have been in the situation beyond the initial request. If you don't want an FA deciding how your luggage should be stowed, you really shouldn't be flying.

Gillian
05-30-2001, 09:25 AM
Did anyone take pictures? My DH would have had the digital camera out!

idontknow
05-30-2001, 09:36 AM
Ok, I'm back.

As for the man that refused to give up his bags, he didn't understand how on the flight down the FA told him his bags were fine. Now he was being told he would have to check them. They contained oil paint and he did not want the bottles to break and get all over everything in the cargo hold. He said they were worth a lot of money, too. When we were waiting in the rain, there was an attendant tagging bags because they might be too big. She put a tag on our soft sided cooler that holds 18 cans. (FA never looked at our bags) Now, you would have thought she would have done the same thing to his bags. (or maybe she did and he took them off?)

One of the worst parts to the entire incident is that I had to face the mother that had been yelling at me after we landed. I could still run into her at the store. While DH and I were outside smoking while we waited for the bags, she came out with two of her children to get their car. She glared at me while she crossed the unloading zone. (our airport is so small I could streak thru it and not get caught. LOL It only takes 30 seconds to run thru it. I'm not kidding, 30 seconds from the farthest gate to the front doors at a full run) I'm not worried about her doing anything really, because I am reporting this to the airline. She would have to be stupid to do something physical. I'm more worried about her yelling at me in a store and causing a scene in that reguard.

VickiVM said: This is a customer service oriented business and the airline people are supposed to be trained to diffuse these types of situations...especially in this day and age. A change of tone and inflection of the voice would have probably gone a long way in averting an all passenger free for all.

I agree with this completely! This might have kept the woman behind the couple from saying anything to the Red Coat and she would not have been threatened. (or maybe not) It really upset me when the RC said that the man was holding up the plane,when he clearly was not. We were waiting for maintenance to fix the leaky exit door. (which they did not. Every time the rain started up, the door started leaking while we were on the ground) So she blatently lied to the man to try to scare him.

(My mom told me the following story, I'm sorry if I don't have the details correct. It's the moral of the story that I am trying to state...)
It was not too long ago that a gate attendant had their neck snapped because of rude treatment to a customer. It had to do with the safety of the passengers child when the child ran thru the boarding doors onto the ramp and the door was closed behind the child. The mother tried to run after the child but the doors were closed and the gate attendant refused to let the mother thru the doors. The GA physically restrained her from going after her child. The father ended up snapping the GA neck. During the trial, it was brought up about where airport security was during this incident. The had not been called until after it was too late. If that airline's employee would have not taken matters into his own hands and stopped the mother from going after her child, none of it would have happened. (I truely feel sorry for the employees of an airline that makes them be the "bouncers")


What I wish would have happened is that the Red Coat would have informed the man of the rules and told him if he did not give up his bags she would be forced to call security to remove him from the plane. She could have said this in a fairly nice voice and still made her point. If he did not give up his bags then, she could have called security and had him removed. That would have been that. Instead, she came on with an nasty attitude like she was going to be the one to physically remove him. Then threatened physical violence to another passenger for speaking up. (sorry, but the term "thown off the plane" sounds incredibly physical to me)

I just don't get how this man's bags were more of a threat to passenger safety than the child in the exit seat. (and that is the last line of my letter to Mr. Turner)

idontknow
05-30-2001, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Beverly Lynn

idontknow out of curiosity could you see the bags sticking out that made it catch the FA's attention?
and the first thing an FA is supposed to do when people board an aircraft and they see people sitting in the exit row is walk to them and explain that they may have to perform safety things etc. and then if anyone sitting in that row does not meet the criteria then they must change their seats. The weekly memos passed down to the tkt cntr and gate warning of seating issues is unbelievable. part of the problem is that once on the aircraft people switch and this is how a child sometimes gets in there.

No, I did not see the carryon sticking out from the seat. The man even showed the FA that the carryon did not come past the back of the seat in front of him. He actually took his hand and made a line from the back of the seat to the floor. It isn't that I am defending the man for refusing, I just think the entire situation could have been handled better.

As for the child, The FA walked right past him and didn't say a word. She had not gotten to the "for your safety" speach yet. She was still checking to make sure the bags were alright. But, you would think that instead of waiting for the speach to tell the child's mother that he could not sit there, she would have saved time and told the mother when the FA made the baggage rounds.

pamk
05-30-2001, 12:00 PM
I have worked in customer service and sales for many years and I would expect to be fired for being rude and yelling at a customer (although some might deserve it). I have been trained that no matter how bad the situation or confrontational the customer always keep a smile on your face and your voice calm and even. If the FA and Red Coat couldn't manage to do that then maybe they are in the wrong business. After all it is their job to SERVICE their customers.

Beverly Lynn
05-30-2001, 02:37 PM
close to 60% of complaints are about flt attnd's. and its all in the tone of voice and how they go about handling matters that makes it so much worse than it should be. its getting to the point of where is the customer service anymore? I'm beginning to wonder if it even exists. it sounds like it could have been handled in a better manner than it was. the Rc should have gotten the pilot or actually the FA should have gotten the pilot if it was this big an issue for her. keep us informed of what happens after you get your letter off.

idontknow
05-30-2001, 03:30 PM
I want to thank everyone for their comments. After having a chance to get this off of my chest and reading what you have had to say, I think I can write a better letter. You started out giving me basics on what to write and as the thread grew, more of you hit on other points I should put in the letter. (the one that comes to mind is the seat numbers of people involved) I just wanted to make sure everyone knows how important it is to me to get responses from you. Thanks again!

bexareaglecheryl
05-30-2001, 05:28 PM
Just keep in mind when writing the letter what response you expect. What do you want from the writing of your letter? A response? An apology? Some kind of comp?

Also, remember that after you write the letter to let it go. Five years from now you won't remember it all, it will just be a footnote to your trip. Ask yourself: what would Mickey do?


Most of us are at a certain age when we remember that airline travel was a luxury. Now we have to remember that it's more like bus travel.

Get the anger out and then proceed. Something good will come out of your experience, this I believe about everything unpleasant that happens to me.

wmears13
05-30-2001, 09:32 PM
In response as to why the man did not want to let the FA take his bags:

My ds was approached by FA flying back from Hawaii. She wanted to store the souvineers up front, where they would be out of the way. Granted they were bulky and needed to go in one of the closets. Well, she didn't mention she was going to store them for her own personnel use. They "disappeared", never to be seen again.
If this man had experienced this, no wonder he was reluctant to part with his belongings.
As far as whether or not the man would have complied w/ the "request" depending on how it was asked--I worked managing the dining room of a restaraunt on midnights. Yep, the drunk shift. Believe me, success is ALL in the tone and and word choice.
The request appears illogical as the bags were okay for the prior segment of the trip. The illogical nature of the request is what bothers me. Were there any explanations given?
(Go figure--illogical actions bother me, but I LOVE going to visit a giant rodent with a dog as a pet AND as a best friend!!! LOL)

idontknow
05-31-2001, 07:36 AM
When she got to the couple, she just said she needed to check the carryons, that they were too big. I saw the couple with the carryons at the gate. He had his slung over his shoulder and they were no wider than his body and he was not a very big man.

If things would have been handled better, I don't think there would have been half of the arguement that there was. Like I said in an earlier post, if they would have been nicer, the FA and the Red Coat could have smiled the entire time even while security was escorting the couple off of the plane if needed. (the couple was not removed from the plane, just their carryons)