Now Dan may not go to university next year *Update Pg 2*

[TimNDansMom]

Dan went to Waterloo today to check out everything, with his friend who has been accepted into the Architecture program. They also went last fall so he's seen the campus before.

I had fallen asleep this afternoon and didn't even know that he had come home and gone to his room. When he suddenly appeared, I was surprised to find him home. He looked quite upset.

First of all he didn't like the residence room they looked at, at Waterloo ~ Village I. He said the painted cement block walls reminded him of our local jail (went on a tour there once). He said he started to feel unsure as he walked around the campus too. I know there's a new computer course that interests him but is not open to his Fine Art program. He spoke to someone at the Faculty of Arts and she said he may be able to get in if the class isn't full. I had been in Waterloo yesterday and dropped by the Faculty of Arts and spoke to the same person.

He had had his heart set on going to Western and he doesn't seem to be able to get past the fact that he didn't get accepted. Plus he really like the "cozy" residence we looked at there.

From what I can see, the Fine Art at Waterloo and the Visual Arts at Western are similar. He seems to think there is more potential for computer design at the Western program. I guess I'll have to phone to find out for sure. We had already discussed with him that for the "hands on" experience he could go to college for Interactive media and design, after university. Carleton offers a combined course with Algonquin, which he got accept in, but I think it's a more technical program because it has maths and physics, which he doesn't really want to take anymore.

I was going to take the acceptance papers over to the OUAC in Guelph and the residence office at Waterloo, myself, tomorrow. But now I might be going on Monday, the cut-off day to submit everything, or I might not.

Maybe he'll sleep on it and feel better in the morning or maybe make up his mind over the weekend, what he wants to do next year.

[PoohBWV]

It's so hard isn't it. DD19 is set and ready to go, but I'll tell you, dd17 doesn't want anything to do with college or university next year. I think that these kids have been pushed so much in the last four years, that she just wants a break! She totally doesn't know what she wants to do in the future, even though for the past four years all we ever heard about was the music program, and the idea of going back for a fifth year of high school doesn't appeal to her as she doesn't need any more courses and has excellent grades in the ones she does have. I know that she has taken a lot of talking to from her teachers who don't agree with her decision not to go to university next year, but she is standing firm. She really had a tough time with this decision, to the point of having stomach problems, and I think that all we can do now is to support her decision.

[TimNDansMom]

Peggy, I'm not looking forward to when Tim graduates in another 2 years from grade 12, if what Dan is going through is any indication.

Dan is in OAC and will be 19 in December. He has always had a tough time making decisions and this is the biggest one he's ever faced. He's always been afraid of choosing the "wrong one". His world right now revolves around his web site designing and his bass guitar.

I'm wondering if he did get accepted at Western whether we'd be going through the same "unsureness" he seems to be grappling with right now. I was really shocked when this all came out this evening.

[DisneyLisa]

My heart goes out to you and Dan...it's hard on both of you right now. It's a big decision for him and some kids just have a tougher time with it.

How do the Universities actually work these days? Do they send out a certain amount of acceptances expecting "x" amount to turn them down leaving the number of students they can accommodate or could they have openings in some programs after all the acceptances are accepted or declined? Maybe you could call Western & check on it. Just a thought...can't hurt. Also, do you think he could do a year at Waterloo & apply for Western for 2nd year? Maybe if he had that to look forward to he would be willing to accept a year at Waterloo...my guess is that once he got there he wouldn't want to leave ;).

I know what he means about the cement block walls...that's what my residence had in the late 70's ;). I told DS what ours were like & sure enough, when we toured WLU...that's what he saw. It didn't bother him at all & he loved the look of the University/Campus life but maybe because Dan is so unsure, he's looking for negatives...that's understandable and normal.

Good luck Julie & be sure to keep us posted. I'll be thinking of you both :).

[Tink42]

Wow...what a tough thing to go thru. I'm glad DD got what she wanted and didn't have these tough decisions to make. Good luck to you all this weekend.

Also, when we toured WLU's residence, it also looked bleak and it was supposedly one of the better ones. I told DD that things are different once all the students are there and there are posters up, the doors are decorated and music and voices are heard. The brick walls seem to disappear then.

[PoohBWV]

Julie: It's hard to know with Dan if he is experiencing unsureness about going away at all or if he is so disappointed he didn't get into Western that he doesn't want to accept what he considers to be second best. Are all of his friends going to university next year? If he wants to go into web design, is it possible for him to get a job a design company for next year even if it is doing small jobs? Perhaps he would feel better about his decision then.

I'm really upset with my dd, and I think it's because my parents never offered to send me to university. It just wasn't discussed in my house. I think that if I we had gone, dh and I wouldn't have struggled as much as we had to the first 10-15 years we were married, but she just doesn't seem to understand this and says that "making money just isn't important" to her. OMG, when she's having trouble paying bills someday, I hope she remembers those words! To top it all off, I'm dealing with dd19 going away to university this fall, my dad who has bone cancer and who has been told he only has a few months, and a mother who is also not well. Plus dh is closing his store and changing his business to completely mobile service. This should be a good change for me as it should free up some time, but it is still very stressful.

Calgon, take me away!!!

[bunnyfoo]

It's a tough decision ... Could there still be a possibility that a spot at Western might open up later this summer?

As for the housing... Has Dan thought about about staying off-campus? I don't know anyone who went to UW, but a bunch of my friends who went to Queen's (Kingston), shared an apartment and had a blast!

[NancyK]

Hi Julie
This sure is a tough year for our kids. My DS missed Western's cut-off by 1/2 of a percent. His program cut-off was 83.0 and he had an 82.5 at midterm. On the back of his letter, there was a place to fill out his final grades and re-submit them. Now he probably won't get in, but if his marks go up at all, we're going to send them in. My thought is that everyone applied to multiple universities this year because of the double cohort. Maybe there's a chance that Western will have more people turn them down as they get accepted into other universities. I'm not counting on it, but secretly keeping my fingers crossed. DS is content with his decision to attend Ottawa, but would rather be in London with his older brother (not to mention all of my sisters and mom live there).
I can understand Dan's disappointment in Village I at Waterloo. We thought they looked like prison cells also. He could try for a double room in Ron Eydt Village. We didn't get to see one, but it HAS to be better than Village I. Also, Mackenzie King, while more expensive, has the suite style rooms. There are 4 single rooms in a suite with 2 bathrooms, a living area and a kitchenette. I think it's hard to get in there, but it would be worth the extra money.
On a side note, my older DS had a friend last year who desperately wanted to get into Waterloo, but was declined. He accepted Western's offer. Halfway through the summer, Waterloo found a place for him so he went there instead.
If Dan heads to Waterloo or Carleton and gets good marks, he should be able to transfer to Western next year. Could he stand eight months away? He might find he actually likes it.
My heart goes out to him (and you). Let us know what he decides.
Nancy

[TimNDansMom]

Thank you for all your words of support. It really means a lot to me. I am very upset that it has come down to this.

{{{HUGS}}} to you Peggy, you have a lot to deal with.

I spoke with Western and Waterloo at great length today and everyone was as helpful as they could be. Dan was supposed to talk to his guidance councellor today, but his excuse when he got home was that he couldn't get an appointment. I phoned the school and he has one at 8am on Monday morning. If they had known they would have seen him today. I will probably go with him. Monday is the cut-off day to accept offers of admission.

I really think he has made his mind up that he only wants to go to Western. He says he likes the campus atmosphere there and the program better. I think he has it in his mind that he will take some more OAC subjects (I guess that's 12U now) to get his average high enough to get accepted at Western. His friend Steve (the one in the Prom pic) is failing English and is going back to high school. Although he got accepted into the music program at Western because of his audition, his offer of admission would have been taken back when Western got his final marks. And another friend who also was rejected by Western but accepted by Ottawa U is thinking of going back to high school. So Dan feels he has company, I guess.

Whether the programs are transferable, I couldn't get a definite answer from Western about. One person I spoke to at Western said the first year programs were very similar to Waterloo's and should be, but Admissions said that would have to be determined at the time. They would not give me a list of transferable courses.

His friend who got into Waterloo Architecture told Dan today that he has decided to go for a single room. I would imagine he decided this rather than wait for Dan to make up his mind.

I guess we will see what his guidance councellor recommends on Monday morning but at this point I don't hold much hope that he will change his mind.

[DisneyLisa]

Thanks for keeping us posted Julie...I've been thinking about Dan all day. Try to relax & have a good weekend. Maybe after he gets a good full night's sleep (you know...sleep in like teenagers do ;)) he'll feel better and more relaxed about making a decision. Good luck!

[PoohBWV]

You know Julie, it sounds like Dan and my Laura are thinking very much along the same lines. I think that they are both scared to death to make wrong decisions, and they are scared to take that next step.

I've decided that I have to quit worrying about it. It is really starting to cause a wedge between dd and myself and that is the last thing I want. All we can do as parents is try to point out the benefits, but ultimately you can't force them to go to university if they don't want to. I am hoping that she will change her mind and go next year, but I'm done forcing the issue.

[Scratch42]

It's a tough decision and a big step for all concerned!

Good Luck!

The things I have to look forward to!:rolleyes:

Scratch
:smooth:

[TimNDansMom]

Lisa, this morning I tried to revisit the Carleton offer, with Dan. I went through all the things you told me about Ottawa/Carleton again. To me, this program is what he really wants and more, if he can just get past the couple of math and physics classes in the first two years. Because he only found out he was accepted in the BIT program last week, we don't have the package yet with all the info, so we just have what is on the website to go by.

I even told him I'd come up and stay in Ottawa for a few days until he got settled if that worried him. I don't know if it all went in one ear and out the other, though. :rolleyes:

Peggy, I think you are right in the way our kids are thinking. They are scared. The last thing I want to do is force Dan to go somewhere he doesn't want to but I am trying to make sure he knows what he is passing up. Right now he is looking at all the negatives and I wish he would start looking farther down the road at where he wants to be and most importantly that he is going to have the education and skills to get a good paying job, especially with what it is going to cost to get there!

You know, Dan's birthday is in December and I got to thinking that maybe if he'd been a January baby and had to wait that extra year to start school, he'd be more mature now to make this decision?

Good luck to your son Nancy that he might get a second chance at Western. Dan's mid term average was 79%, his calculus and physics marks are pulling him down. Last year he could have got in to Visual Arts, but his guidance councellor told me yesterday that she received a letter from Western stating that they will not even consider anyone under 80% for any program! She also said that the education minister states that the kids who didn't get into their university of choice, made bad university choices!!!! There's also an article in our local paper that I have to check out today at our library.

[DisneyLisa]

Has he been to Ottawa before Julie? It's too bad you didn't think of it earlier...you could have come up for the weekend to show him Carleton...it's a nice campus & the residences are all highrise apartments as far as I can remember. Maybe you should hop in the car & bring him for the weekend :). It's a 4 1/2 - 5 hour drive from Waterloo. Just a thought...maybe he'd like it if he saw it.

[PoohBWV]

Julie: Laura is a December baby too, as a matter of fact, if she had been born two weeks later she'd just be going into grade 12 right now! I can see why she doesn't feel ready.

I'd be interested to hear more of what the Min. of Ed. said. Let us know.

[TimNDansMom]

Lisa, I did think about Dan and I driving to Ottawa, but Dh went down to Iowa again on business this weekend and I don't like to drive alone with this old car of mine. Plus Dan would have to give me some sign that he's reconsidering Carleton before I would make the trek.

I spent all morning talking to Dan ~ even told him to draw up a pros and cons list for each university and staying in high school, so he could see his thoughts on paper. I'm done. I'll now wait to see what his guidance councellor recommends.

I'm interested in what the ed. minister has to say too, Peggy. I'll let you know what I find out.

[damo]

Here's my two cents, for all it's worth. I am a high school teacher and a Waterloo grad and have a DD in grade 11 and a DS in grade 8.

A year in University is never a waste of time, even if it is not at your first choice. Way too many kids don't ever persue their lofty ambitions once they take a year off and so many kids change their minds about their ambitions once they have spent a year in university. There are so many careers out there that the kids don't even know about, not even mentioning that they really don't know a lot about the career they have chosen. University puts a whole new light on things. First of all, they grow up a lot and see things differently, causing them to make different course choices etc. They are exposed to so many different ideas and people that it is impossible not to see new horizons.

It is much easier to switch universities and get into the one you want than it is to start from scratch again from high school. Waterloo is a great University and a year there would definitely not be a waste of time but would rather be an opportunity to put things in perspective and discover if this path is the right one.

So, in a nutshell, even if the kids don't know what they want to do, they are much more likely to figure it out while they are away at university than if they are in high school for their fifth year or working in a narrow field of opportunity somewhere in the workforce.

[TimNDansMom]

Thank you damo, I'm going to print your post off and put in front of Dan to read. :) (Dan is in OAC.)

[NancyK]

damo,
That is excellent advice. I agree that an education is not a waste of time. Even if you drop out after a year (which I did), no one can take that time away from you. Thanks for your input.

[TimNDansMom]

I just got back from a meeting with Dan and his guidance councellor. After weighing all his options he has made the very difficult decision to go back to high school in September.

Even though he's in OAC, he's still only 18 and I think he will be more mature in another year and maybe more confident in making the "right" decision. At the moment he is so unsure of himself, that it is upsetting him. I think he's a bit scared too.

He wants to get his marks higher and try again for Western because he felt their Visual Arts program suited him better plus he loved the atmosphere there. He realizes that there are no guarantees but he just did not like the Fine Art program at Waterloo nor the feel of the campus. He did not want to go for the Carleton program either.

I know there was a real battle going on inside of him but I think he felt relieved to have finally made a decision. I guess I feel relieved too because I did not want him to go to Waterloo and hate every minute of it, even if his plan was to try and transfer.

Now he has to pick his classes for September and depending on the schedule, will determine whether he goes back for one or two semesters.

[PoohBWV]

You know what Julie, another year at high school isn't going to hurt Dan. Especially since he has other friends who are going back next year too. I really don't have a problem with Laura waiting a year - I sure as heck didn't know what I wanted to do with my life when I was 17. The pressure on these kids has been tremendous. Half of my dd's class is returning to high school next year even though they could graduate. Many are just going back for one semester, some of them are going back to play football or basketball also, in the hopes of getting sports scholarships. Now that the decision is made, enjoy this extra time with Dan. He'll be gone soon enough.

BTW, who is going with you on your trip to WDW this Oct.?

[Tash_From_Cnd]

I don't know if your schools offer this or not but at my school a lot of people are going back for one semester to bring up their marks and using the other one for co-op. I found a lot of people really like co-op and decide then if they really want to go into that field. After co-op is done many of them get a job with that company for the summer which helps with college/university money.

[NancyK]

Hi Julie,
I'm sure Dan feels much better now that he's made a final decision. Now he can concentrate on his upcoming exams and the summer ahead. My DS had two exams today and his last one is tomorrow. I can't believe it's all over. Wasn't it just last week that they started grade 9??

[TimNDansMom]

Tash, we did talk about Co-Op with Dan's guidance councellor yesterday but he'll think more that when he decides what classes he wants to take and the schedule comes out.

That's a lot to have 3 exams in 2 days, Nancy. Dan has calculus on Thursday and Physics on Monday and then he's finished. Tim has one tomorrow, Thursday and Monday. I can't believe summer holidays are just about here!!

You know, I almost feel like I've been given a reprieve, that I'm not going to lose my son just yet. As he has matured we've started doing a few little things together, lately. (Tim is still at the stage where he tries not to be seen with me. :rolleyes: ) It will be nice to build on that over the next year.

Peggy, I'm planning on going solo for my October trip.

[tigger2on]

Too bad he isn't willing to give anything else a try. I went to Carleton and loved it! It was just like highschool but more freedom. They had great residences and the food was actually good too. I too dodn't get into my first choice university but decided to go to carleton. I got my sociolgy degree in Ottawa and decided to go to Uof T for another degree in Psych... they accepted 14 credits from my Soc degree as transferable and I was able to obtain my second degree in just over a year.
My advice is that he goes elsewhere for one year and gets some credits under his belt ... as they are some that are transferable... no matter where you go like english , psych, soc....
if not tell him to find out if Western has a January enterance like some other schools do.... it might be easier to get in. Only fall back is he'll miss Frosh week and stuff.
Good Luck with it all. University life can be scary as it is such a change but it is well worth the experience. I think all kids should live away from home if they can afford it for at least one university year. Makes them appreciate what they have at home more!

[TimNDansMom]

Thanks Suzanne! This is the first big decision that Dan has had to make. Maybe down the line he will regret it, but hopefully it will turn out to be the best decision he's ever made. He's such a sensitive soul and I think another year to mature can only bode him well before stepping "out there".

[DSNY FN]

I went to Mac for first year and hated it so I transfered back home and went to Western I took Kin and Psych and then dropped out after 3 years and never did finnish. I am not sad that I never went back I have my family and a great job at a great company and not doing anything to what I figured I wanted to. I am kinda glad actually as I really don't think I could have lasted for 7 years in University I was getting way to much out of the social part and never spending any time in class. I graduated OAC with an 87 average and even missed roughly 100 days of school but because my marks were good the school never said anything about it. I loved Western and if Dan gets accepted after next year I am sure he will love it there to I even have a great residence he can live in that is only about 2 blocs from the school just down from the hospital on Western Rd my inlaws own it and rent it out to students. I did finish my 3 years with a high B average though so that was ok. It is really tough trying to decide what you want to do with your life and where to go to school and it is a big dissapointment if you do not get accepted to your school of choice I am glad I went to university when I did it seems realy different now mind you I do notice Western is adopting the curriculum that Harvard runs for their business school and also the way it runs the acceptance for it aswell.

[TimNDansMom]

Thanks for the residence info, Darren! :)

[DSNY FN]

No problem let me know if you want to go look at it anytime next year and I will arrange it for you