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Jennasis
05-27-2001, 09:32 AM
On the resort board there is a thread about a rumor I've heard before. It is that Disney is building (soon) a new deluxe resort that will put the GF to shame. It will be built on the Seven Seas Lagoon...that's right actually inside the lagoon, on stilts (from what I heard from a bus driver). It will be part of the monorail line too and reports range from situating it next to the Contemporary to between Poly and GF. I personally think ii should be next to Cont.

Apparently the hold up in ground breaking and greenlighting the project is several engineering concerns ranging from the possibilit of having to move the monorail line a few feet to accomodate the new resort (which would require the monorail to shut down temporarily) and be $$$$$$, to the concerns about the reosrt sinking.

Anyone care to comment? It IS an old rumor from what I understand.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Testtrack321
05-27-2001, 07:36 PM
Though it sounds amptitious, it is a little optomistic. First, a hotel on stilts is very out there. Second, moving the monorail tracks is also very unlikely.

mrgoofy
05-27-2001, 09:29 PM
The monorail tracks at disneyland were moved a couple of yards to accomidate the Indy ride, so I see no real problem, other than the cost, to moving the tracks a few feet at WDW.
Yes this is an old rumor, but let us remember a good idea never dies at WDI, it just takes a vacation for a few years and returns when the time is right.

HorizonsFan
05-27-2001, 09:47 PM
Sounds like the Venitian. That was part of the original plan. Depending on whom you believe, the resort was never built because of the unstable nature of the ground on the site...

gary
05-30-2001, 02:33 PM
Actually, a hotel on "stilts" doesn't sound too outrageous to me. Considering the swampy nature of the WDW soil, all of the significant structures in the area almost certainly need to sit on some kind of piling (one of the oft-quoted problems with extending the monorail is how deep the supports need to be sunk to provide stability). To simply lay a foundation in the area (without pilings) would cause the muck to flow out from underneath the structure - massive settling problems. Putting the structure above the ground (or water), rather than on it, is more complicated, but definitely a possibility.

Gary

DVC-Landbaron
05-30-2001, 03:13 PM
See. This is why I don't pay attention to Disney rumors unless there's a bit more to them. And for a change it is not an Ei$ner problem alone. "Back in the day" it was just as bad.

Want to know the first time I heard this rumor? And, BTW, I was totally blown away by it and excited for years!! Well, I think it was 1973 or 1974. They had decided to change the Venetian into the Mediterranean, but on the same location.

Even to this day, EVERY time I pass by that parcel of land on the monorail (between the Contemporary and TTC) I remember the CM (monorail driver) who let us in on this "sure thing".

HBK
05-30-2001, 05:56 PM
Let me chime in here....

I've been involved in many of the same discussions as DVC....and not only has he been polite, he's seems to enjoy the boards for what they are....a medium for all of us Disney nuts to talk.

Not only do I enjoy his posts, I respect his passion for all things Disney. You may not always agree with what his stance is (I usually do), but the man cares deeply about all things Disney.

If memory serves, he wasn't "Banished" from the debate boards. I think he just needed a break...which was self imposed.

I've never seen any of your previous posts....so I can't say the same for you.

DVC-Landbaron
05-30-2001, 06:38 PM
Well that makes sense DVC. Discouraging rumors on the rumor board.
Hmmm. I let quite a bit of time go by before posting on this subject. I saw it the day it was posted (I think within an hour) and had the same initial reaction as I finally posted. And I certainly didn’t want to rain on anyone’s parade. In fact I kind of thought the thread was pretty much over. So, I had a notion to lend a little perspective to those of you who were in diapers when I first heard the rumor.
In light of your continued desire to debate even in though its off-topic in here
Ahhhh! As fate would have it, of all the threads to post this on, you picked the wrong one. I would have absolutely no solid ground to stand on with almost any other thread on the “Rumor Board”. But not this one. I only gave my perspective to a rumor. I can’t for the life of me see anything worth debating over. I didn’t think my perspective, on this particular subject at least, was even remotely debatable. However, if you think there is cause for debate, feel free to post it on the debate board. I’ll be glad to hop over there and defend my position.

We must be on the same wavelength though. I mean it’s funny that we both decided to finally post on this subject within minutes of each other. Call it “karma” I suppose.
He's just got some Mickey issues.
Not Mickey… Mikey. Mikey issues. A subtle difference, really only one letter, but a very important one.

HBK!! Thanks!! And the same back at you. You are truly one of the most intelligent posters I’ve ever met!!! ;)

Sarangel
05-30-2001, 09:15 PM
I'd like to take this oppurtunity to remind posters that negative comments about individuals is strongly discouraged! You may disagree with anyone's position, but to assume things about them personally is NOT allowed. Kindly keep this in mind in the future.

Sarangel

Basefoot
05-31-2001, 07:52 AM
thedscoop, do you know when and for how long Buzz is going to be shut down? We are leaving in 2 weeks.

YoHo
05-31-2001, 10:57 AM
Look, A happy rumour, Lets all have a warm glowing smile for the happy rumour. Buzz is going down for some improvments and refurbs. Just like the old days. everybody happy happy Joy joy?


Now then Just an FYI, the rumour board "Debated" Disney with a slant on rumours (which DVC has) well before DVC joined, so I don't see what the problem is. the Debate board used to have some good similar topics until it was taken over by competing Political Hot heads and got boring.

DVC-Landbaron
05-31-2001, 11:48 AM
the Debate board used to have some good similar topics until it was taken over by competing Political Hot heads and got boring.
I agree. It's not that I don't care about gun control, the drug war, political things and all the other "hot-stuff" that is talked about on the Debate Board. I just don't care to post on it. And Disney threads seem to die a quick, but painful death on that board. I'm here to talk Disney!!!! And the Rumors Board seems to be "PURE" Disney.

And I, for one, LOVE it!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

All Aboard
05-31-2001, 12:06 PM
Below (if it works) is an image from the preview guide. I think the resort pictured roughly where the GF sits now was to be an Asian themed resort. Notice how it is built out in the water. You can also see the other monorail resort between the Contemporary and Poly.

http://www.eventsmci.com/ebay/ebay.nsf/Items/wdwPreview/$file/wdwPreview.jpg

DVC-Landbaron
05-31-2001, 12:15 PM
OH MY GOD!!!! Thank you!!!

If you study the picture you can see the Persian BEHIND the MK!! I haven't seen this since the mid seventies sometime! WOW!!!

Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!!


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Jackie H.
05-31-2001, 01:31 PM
Check out this website by Tikiman (who posts on DIS boards). The site is mainly about the Poly resort, but on "The Beginnings Page" he has quite a few photos, sketches and preview views of the original plans for WDW and the resorts planned for around the lake.

http://www.homestead.com/tikiman2001/index.html

airlarry!
05-31-2001, 02:16 PM
DVC, you may have seen this, but the article above has a link to this website with more info on the Asian:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/omniluxe/asian.htm

Cool stuff to look at! But DVC, I think that 'dome' behind the MK is the Venetian, not the Persion, if I'm looking at the map correctly.

DVC-Landbaron
05-31-2001, 02:25 PM
Cool stuff to look at! But DVC, I think that 'dome' behind the MK is the Venetian, not the Persian, if I'm looking at the map correctly.

Yes!! You are right. The LandBaron's memory isn't what it used to be!! Since we started talking about this with YoHo, I had remembered that the Venetian was going to go between the Contemporary and TTC and the Persian, behind the MK. And now I find my memory was at fault!! Ahhhhh! The credibility!!!

So, OK - Mr. Airlarry. Sir… I'm from Chicago. I know how the game is played. How much will it take to keep this between you and me. ;)

airlarry!
05-31-2001, 02:29 PM
Tattoo this saying from Mike Lee(http://home.cfl.rr.com/omniluxe/wyw.htm), proprieter of the Widen Your World website, anywhere on your forearm, and that should be payment enough.

"Contrast Mickey's Toontown at Disneyland with Mickey's Toontown Fair at WDW and you get the unshakable notion that somebody should be hung out to dry. "

Kind of sums up what you've said here from time to time, doesn't it?

Reading Mike Lee's words on the site gives you the impression of a man in love with the WDW of today, but with the idea that he realizes that WDW has not grown to its full potential, though it should have. There is a wistfullness in his words for, not what could have been, but for what *should* have been.

YoHo
05-31-2001, 02:41 PM
So, what hotel was supposed to go near Contemp?


That spot for Venetian/Med is interesting and the only spot on bay Lake besides the Fort Wilderness/Wilderness Lodge that has even the beginnings of enough space for a resort. I wonder what they do with it now?

airlarry!
05-31-2001, 02:45 PM
YoHO:

The map says the Persian. But the model doesn't look anything 'Persian' to me. Your guess is as good as mine? Perhaps an early rendering of the TTC?

In fact DVC's idea of the Persian above the Contemporary looks sort of right. That 'dome' could be Persian, right?

YoHo
05-31-2001, 03:40 PM
Possibly, but there are no minerets. So I'm thinking Systine Chaple.

Another Voice
05-31-2001, 05:13 PM
The original Master Plan called for a ‘Persian’ resort on the land north of the Contemporary and to the east of the Magic Kingdom. It was supposed to have been a ‘1001 Arabian Nights’ backdrop for Fantasyland. I don’t think it every made it much beyond the concept design phase, but in the during the construction of EPCOT Center, I stayed in the Contemporary Towers. In the room was an old wall map of the property which included the Persian (and a single monorail line from that hotel to the Magic Kingdom).

During the eight months that the Disney Decade lasted, that area was designated for the Kingdom Suites Hotel. This, as its name suggests, was to be an all suites hotel catering to people who thought the Grand Floridian was on the cheap side. There was some work done on this resort, but the idea evolved into the Vacation Club (although a clone of the resort was part of the WESTCOT plan for a while as well). Last time I saw the area, it was being used as a dump site.

The Mediterranean/MK Resort #4 was supposed to have gone on a exactly were the photograph indicates. Again, not a lot of work was done on the resort. A Venetian/Mediterranean Resort was part of the Disney Decade as well and this resort made it quite far into development. The site was moved much nearer to the TTC because of land stability problems and so that the resort could use the TTC as its monorail stop. One of Eisner favorite architects was hired to do the design work (I forget if it was Stern or Gehry) and the architecture was, er, unique. Let’s just say that it tried to evoke the feeling of the Mediterranean area rather than trying to be anything recognizable. One interesting aspect – the centerpiece of the resort was to have been a giant AquaSphere, a concept that has showed up both in the Port Disney plans and in reality at DisneySeas. Some of the initial land prep work was started and quickly stopped. The construction expenses started to skyrocket and Disney lost interest in the high, high market after the troubles with the Grand Floridian and after Hyatt’s Grand Cypress proved to be such stiff competition.

This project seems to reappear every now and then. In the current conditions, I think Disney just isn’t interested in going after the high end market. Especially when they can charge high-end price for moderate-end hotels.

Barb
05-31-2001, 06:01 PM
I can't tell you how much I enjoy reading all your information (past and present), seeing all the great pictures and learning all the wonderful ins and outs of Disney. I don't post much (I don't know anything), but I lurk here all the time. I found the DIS because of the Rumors Board. I have an incredible desire to know all things Disney. It's an obsession, of sorts. So, I sincerely thank you for some great information and some great reading!:)
*That picture from the preview guide was awesome! If only it were true! And, I, too, look at that "spot" between the Contemporary and TTC every visit, just to see if I notice any activity! The only thing I've ever seen there was deer.

All Aboard
06-01-2001, 08:58 AM
Wow! I am overcome by the amour flowing from DVC! I had to (at least temporarily) modify my signature to mark this historic moment. Well, since the thread got locked, I'll take this opportunity to also show my appreciation for DVC's presence. Although I disagree with him almost all of the time, he has a passion (somewhat misguided as it may be, it's still a passion - Terrance Mann in 'Field of Dreams') and I respect that.

YoHo
06-01-2001, 11:34 AM
AV, I'm trying to visualize this, MK is at the southern most edge of the property and faces north right? So to be north and East of Contemporary, you would be in that big vacant area that everyone says is filled with Sink holes. Eithe rthat or TTC.

Polynesian is North and East of Contemp right? Grand FLoridian is East of the Park.

I thought the big Dump was behind MK? where the monorails and old 20K subs are.

Someone please orient me. I'm confused and I can't find a site map.

DVC-Landbaron
06-01-2001, 11:40 AM
YoHo,

You are 180 degrees wrong. Turn the map in your mind COMPLETELY around. There you go!!

The MK is on the north end of the property.

Just trying to help!! ;)

YoHo
06-01-2001, 11:57 AM
Thanks, I got it in my head that MK was south for some reason.


At any rate, here's a link to an overview map from the DIS
[URL=http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/maps/WDW_OVERVIEW_INTL.jpg]

DVC-Landbaron
06-01-2001, 03:09 PM
YoHo, How about fixing that link so I can actually go there!

Thanks

YoHo
06-01-2001, 03:13 PM
Oh, FIne, I'll fix it for those that are cut and Paste Challenged:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

link (http://www.wdwinfo.com/wdwinfo/maps/WDW_OVERVIEW_INTL.jpg)

I'd post the actual pic, but its really big, and not everyone is on a T1 or cable modem

DVC-Landbaron
06-01-2001, 03:17 PM
Thank you. Very nice.

Janet2k
06-01-2001, 09:56 PM
I'm glad this rumor came back, especially since the old Dis threads are long gone now. Nice to see that everyone chimed in with all the good info regarding this long-standing rumor. However, if Disney builds this new resort, I will come...

toefungus
06-01-2001, 10:29 PM
Great pic. It's really up to date, it even has Animal Kingdom lodge.

Luv2Dream
06-04-2001, 12:44 PM
Gosh, it's so timely that this post shows up now. I just came back this past Saturday from a 10 night trip to VWL and I was speaking at great length to a DVC kiosk cast member and we were discussing new possible DVC resorts. This CM mentioned that there may be 3 more DVC resorts on property but the CM also mentioned that one of the DVC resorts will depend upon the "Mediterranean resort" being built. Supposedly it is to be situated in an area next to the Contemporary which as a sink hole. However, this sink hole has not been active for 4-5 years per this CM so it is "in consideration". For those of you who may not know, this resort would be Concierge only. The CM said you can't even get into this resort to eat at a restaurant unless you stay there. Extremely exclusive, all the amenities. Just thought I'd pipe in since I just heard about all of this last week.

nickglover
06-13-2001, 12:37 PM
Thanks, everyone. This was a great thread, and especially the links to the other articles. I read them all, as I am fascinated by the history of Florida tourist attractions.

Gcurlin: About how much is a 1971 preview pamphlet worth?

Do you have other early WDW collectibles?

Really enjoyed this topic!

Disney Doll
06-17-2001, 09:43 AM
I'm no engineer, or architect or anything, but it would seem to me that the place to build a hotel would be "between" the GF and the MK....there's an awful lot of unused, wooded space over there. However, it may be too swampy or whatever, which is why it's never been done. It would seem to me that putting it over there would best make use of the monorail, since it already runs over that way!