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mikeymars
04-17-2003, 04:39 PM
O.K., not to cram a normally positive board with ranting horror stories, but I CAN'T restrain myself this time. I HAVE to share my negative recent experience with this so-called "relationship management" program. Here goes:

Saturday, Feb. 22: apply for new Disney/Bank One VISA through on-line application at Disney Club site (I'm a DVC member, but the Disney Club had an application link up first).

Tuesday, March 18: receive declination letter from by Bank One, which is dated 3/4. Nowhere does the letter acknowledge I was applying for the Disney Platinum Visa Card. Notably, the first line says “Thank you for your interest in our (extra blank space) Visa Platinum credit card program.”

It would appear that extra blank space is “residue” of a computer program designed to insert some vernacular (ergo, the marketing partners’ name) in front of the word “Visa.” However, Bank One declined to insert that name and “missed” the blank space, sending out a standard, plain vanilla declination letter (albeit a poorly proofread one which is obviously designed to name a sponsor/marketing affiliate).

Isn't clear if that obvious omission is intentional. Even if it isn’t, it leaves the Bank One fulfillment of the VISA initiative looking a wee bit rushed and sloppy (doesn’t Disney review how marketing partners communicate to its clients?) If it was intentional, the result is to imply Disney doesn’t want its good name sullied by being associated with declinations, which if the case is transparent, cowardly and insulting.

Wednesday, March 26: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about this omission to Tosh Komime, head of Customer Relationship Management at Disney. Copy Mr. Andrew Mooney, President, DISNEY CONSUMER PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE, Mr. Steve Wadsworth, President, WALT DISNEY INTERNET GROUP, and BANK ONE Card Services.

Tuesday, April 8: over a MONTH after being declined by Bank One, I receive a fancy direct mail promotion piece from them and Disney inviting me to APPLY for the card. Of course, this package immediately raised the issue of “why are these firms mocking me, by sending an invitation to apply when they’ve ALREADY turned me down?!?!”

It only took a few seconds to answer that annoying question. Presumably, some unit at Disney provided Bank One with a file of existing Disney clientele (likely the obvious suspects such as members of the Disney Club, the Vacation Club, etc.) to use for this promotion. However, apparently no one at Bank One – which loves to present itself as one of the most sophisticated credit card marketers in the country, one that presumably “wrote the book” on database management – bothered to perform the basic, “direct mail 101” function of scrubbing the file to remove the names of Disney customers who had already applied, particularly those who had been turned down.

Given the presumed agenda of this initiative is to deepen relationships with highly profitable customers (ERGO, DVC-ers LIKE ME), I was most confused about why this was allowed to happen. Does Disney Management care about how letters that go out with their signatures are managed? Or even more to the point, did anyone at either of the marketing partners ever bother to consider how a Disney customer would feel in the resulting scenario?

Offended and unimpressed might be places to start.

Thursday, April 10: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about the above in polite but gory detail to Dinah Keefe, Vice President Disney Relationship Management. Copy Disney President Iger, as well as Retail President Mooney, On-Line Preesdient Wadsworth, CRM-"guru" Komime and Carter Warren, head of Card Services marketing at Bank One.

Wednesday, April 16: receive an eight sentence long, anonymously authored and poorly written letter (dated April 11) from "The Disney Rewards Program," which appears to be an attempt to respond to the concerns I expressed in my letter to Komime three weeks earlier.

The one-sentence response it provides to my concern -- which took Disney over two weeks to draft -- is as follows: “Due to the financial nature of a credit decline letter, it is not necessary to include the Disney name.”

A review of that this morning by my council of the Federal Truth in Lending Act shows that to be a tangential statement of policy, NOT of law. Or stated differently, the Disney letter DID'NT answer my real question: why did Disney and Bank One decide that the so-called “financial nature” of a declination letter made it so “unnecessary” to include the Disney name?

Their response also ignored another issue I raised, that being the typo in the decline letter I received, which “gave away’ the fact it was obviously designed to include the name of a marketing affiliate.

All those omissions are noteworthy - and disappointing. They suggest neither Disney nor Bank One is choosing to be open with a long term, valuable Disney Customer about concerns he raised.

Thursday, April 17: while drafting a response to the latest Disney missive, I happen to check these boards and find scores of posts referring to a phone number (888-338-2586) one can choose to check the status of their Disney Bank One VISA application.

Out of curiosity, I call, and as requested punch in my social security number. Lo and behold, what comes back? The following: "“your application is UNDER REVIEW, you will be notified in writing in 7-10 days of our decision, this is the most CURRENT information regarding the status of your application.”

Practially falling out of my chair (after all, my application was already DECLINED by Bank One over a month earlier, confirmed IN WRITING, but now their "MOST CURRENT" info is saying it is "UNDER REVIEW"). I subsequently reached an “advisor” and asked her to clarify my status. She fusses with her keyboard for about 30 seconds and says she “can't access the system right now because they’re updating the status, call back tomorrow."

I can't wait to hear the story tomorrow WHEN I DO.

More to come - STAY POSTED!!!!! This is FAR from over.

lilkitty819
04-17-2003, 05:35 PM
Hi
So sorry to hear about your decline...But to be honest you were turned down by Bank 1 Visa not Disney, so they need not put Disney's name on it...And also the decline could be because in the pass 4-5 months you could have changed jobs or moved. So they would give you a decline and put your app on hold and review it after you have been on your job or home for 6 monthes..So don't get your Mickey Ears all twisted over it, you'll live alot longer:wave:

msdis
04-17-2003, 05:56 PM
DH and I both have had our new cards for over a month and the other day we too got yet another application in the mail. We are on EVERYONE's list for applications and get tons of them, so I was not at all surprised when another showed up. We too were puzzled by the "platinum" aspect of the card. Did everyone get a platnium card?
Sorry about your "turn down", we probably will next time, since ours has had a lot of use since it arrived.:rolleyes:
I'm really surprised how many people have been turned down by this card. Is Bank 1 more strict than others or have they changed their formula for credit?

CarolA
04-17-2003, 08:27 PM
Actually I would be MORE upset if Bank One was communicating with Disney regarding the status of my account. It really is none of Disney's business.

That said, what you experienced with Bank One happens all the time with credit card companies. I was turned down by SEARS (I thought they would approve anyone!) When I called, they had no idea what had happened and it never shows that they even did an inquiry on my credit report. I really did not want a Sears card, so I just let it go (they were giving away a gift I wanted at the store if you signed up!) Sears now routinely sends me offerst to get credit even thought the last thing I bought as Sears is a 10 year old washer. Technology is NOT always our friend.

Dean
04-17-2003, 08:42 PM
mikeymars, what's the reason your willing to go to such lengths and expense for something like this. If you were turned down due to your credit report you're entitled to free copies of same and a review from the card company. Disney only sells their name to Bank One so that's where your gripe is. Nothing you've noted has convinced me that anything was done at all wrong or inappropriately. When one interacts with a customer in a negative way, the less said the better. Maybe they could have been more professional but that's about it. If your physician dismisses you you wil not (or should not) get a lengthy explanation, only a statement that you must go separate ways. Any further explanation simply invites strong feelings and the potential for argueing the statements. Just like my 16 y/o when he's awake, LOL

HorizonsFan
04-17-2003, 09:13 PM
We got a letter from Bank One after we got our cards saying that they had sent out some declination letters by mistake and to disregard it if we got one.
The massive requests for this card are not being handled very well...

CarolA
04-17-2003, 09:22 PM
You know I used to work for a company that routinely did to it's vendors what I think Disney has done to Bank One. OVERWHELMED them with volume.

We would tell our vendors exactly what we had in terms of volume and they would say, NO PROBLEM (I mean who wants to turn down millions of dollars!) They would sign contracts and we would flip the switch and all H### would break loose because we just overwhelmed them.

I have a feeling Disney said "we have MILLIONS of loyal customers" and all BankOne saw was the word millions and just figured they would make it work. And don't think it could not happen. Most of the companies in my case were fortune 500!

KNWVIKING
04-17-2003, 09:29 PM
I'm amazed by your tenacity and passion over a declined credit card. Don't understand it,but am amazed by it.

I'm don't know if you or Bank 1 is right or wrong, but I doubt Disney has a say one way or the other. They're not the ones loaning the $$$ so I doubt they have even seen your application. If Bank 1 put Disney's name on your rejection notice it could make it falsely appear as if you were rejected by Disney,not Bank 1.

It sounds as if this is far from a dead issue with you. Let us know the final outcome.

mikeymars
04-17-2003, 09:44 PM
Thanks for all the replies, which I will address in order:

>>But to be honest you were turned down by Bank 1 Visa not Disney, so they need not put Disney's name on it..<<

This is a co-branded marketing initiative. Take a look at your card - is there just ONE name on it? NO.

So what? Well, I happen to manage research and development for the largest life insurance company in America. We've had a similar co-branded VISA card with First USA (a Bank One unit) for the last 12 years. We've done six different surveys with our clients, both those who were accepted for the card and those who were not (to get a sense of how the view the card relative to thier relationship with us). Trust me, the results show the same thing again and again: despite the fact the bank underwrites the credit (not us,) ALL those who apply for the card view BOTH parties as responsible for the overall management of initative.

As a result, we (and EVERY other major firm I know of that has a similar card program) DOES put the name of BOTH parties on ALL communication regarding the card, INCLUDING decline letters.

>>And also the decline could be because in the pass 4-5 months you could have changed jobs or moved. <<

Sorry, no traction there: I've worked for the same firm since 1989. Lived in the house we OWN since 1992. My personal adult credit history goes back to 1983.

>>I'm really surprised how many people have been turned down by this card. Is Bank 1 more strict than others or have they changed their formula for credit?<<

Strict is an understatment: From my discussions with my peers in the industry, in these types of programs, Bank One turns down on average over 70% of those who apply.

>>Actually I would be MORE upset if Bank One was communicating with Disney regarding the status of my account. It really is none of Disney's business<<

I think you're missing the point. I NEVER asked Disney to discuss the "status" of my particular application with Bank One. I simply pointed out to them that I was NOT impressed with the way Bank One was managing the general program.

>>what's the reason your willing to go to such lengths and expense for something like this.<<

Because I care about the way Disney AND their marketing partners treat Disney customers.

>>If you were turned down due to your credit report you're entitled to free copies of same and a review from the card company.<<

I know; I didn't mention this in my original post, but the day I got the decline letter, I got a copy of the TransUnion credit report Bank One used (on line) and reviewed it. No major problems (and I KNOW how to review these reports, I've done it for years in my profession) and a relatively good overall credit score. I also sent a separate letter to Bank One the same day requesting a review. As of today, they have not responded.

>>Disney only sells their name to Bank One so that's where your gripe is.<<

That's incorrect, I've already discussed how the program works with a peer I know at Bank One. Disney don't sell anything to Bank One. Bank One gets lists from Disney, and they share the profits from the cards that are approved and used.

My "gripe" again had to with the fact that the implementation of this plan was not supporting the strategy of improving relationships with profitable, long-term customers.

>>Nothing you've noted has convinced me that anything was done at all wrong or inappropriately.<<

You may want to revisit that opinion, for guess what was waiting for me when I retrurned home from work today? A FedEx overnight mail letter from Dinah Keefe at Disney (which was copied to Disney President Robert Iger AND Bank One Marketing Head Carter Warren). It was a wonderful letter from someone who is CLEARLY an intelligent, class act manager. And let's just say she didn't send it to disagree with me!!!!!

crusader
04-17-2003, 09:59 PM
Bank One gets lists from Disney, and they share the profits from the cards that are approved and used.

Which profits - merchant fees or interest?

Dean
04-17-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by mikeymars
That's incorrect, I've already discussed how the program works with a peer I know at Bank One. Disney don't sell anything to Bank One. Bank One gets lists from Disney, and they share the profits from the cards that are approved and used. That's somantics. Disney supplies the lists and makes money. I'm sure there are some minor interactions, those Bank One people must come to WDW to have a few days of Mickey, errr meetings. Sure Disney's name goes on it and they have a stake in how thing are presented. I stand by my initial thought that nothing was done inappropriately. The only real issue is that you were turned down for a CC and didn't like how they did it. That's not to say it could not have been done better. I've been known to go after issues for the principal of them but I can't hold a candle to you. I certainly wouldn't put this much effort of my personal time into something so trivial and if I were to use my work time, I'd have plenty of personal time. Let us know when you get the cards, will you use them after all of this?

mikeymars
04-17-2003, 10:18 PM
>>I'm don't know if you or Bank 1 is right or wrong, but I doubt Disney has a say one way or the other. They're not the ones loaning the $$$ so I doubt they have even seen your application.<<

Thanks for the response, but again, some are crossing wires here: you are referring to the issue of credit review and approval. NONE of my communications to Disney have debated the Bank One credit decision or asked them to get involved in it.

The issue I HAVE been speaking to them about is how to apporpriately manage a "customer relationship building" marketing initiative. Specifically, the typos/omissions in Bank One letters and redundant promotional mailings are what I "complained" about, NOT the credit decision itself. I'm "debating" that SEPERATELY with Bank One.

>>If Bank 1 put Disney's name on your rejection notice it could make it falsely appear as if you were rejected by Disney,not Bank 1.<<

Read my original post. What I applied for was a Disney Platinum Visa Card from Bank One, NOT a ">>EXTRA BLANK SPACE<< Platinum Card Program.

The top of the decline letter has the Bank One logo in Bold, large font, the Disney logo appears NOWHERE on the letter. The first sentence could readily read "Thank you for applying for our Disney Platinum Visa Card Program" without giving even the most simplistic and literal the sense Disney was somehow involved in the credit decision. The decline letters First USA (again, a Bank One unit) send out for my company's credit card program name our firm in that sentence, and we've NEVER heard from customers complaining that "we" were involved in turning them down for credit. People are just smarter than that.

>>I have a feeling Disney said "we have MILLIONS of loyal customers" and all BankOne saw was the word millions and just figured they would make it work<<

You may be onto something here. There's been buzz on other threads on these boards about Bank One getting something in the range of over 100,000 applications the first week or so of the program, which I know would overwhelm ANY credit fulfillment area.

>>We got a letter from Bank One after we got our cards saying that they had sent out some declination letters by mistake and to disregard it if we got one.
The massive requests for this card are not being handled very well...<<

Bingo again, albeit I obviously haven't received any card, and have no evidence to suggest that the decline letter I got back in March was erroneous.

>>It sounds as if this is far from a dead issue with you. Let us know the final outcome.<<

Thanks, I will. I do now have that phone system evidence to the effect (possibly because of my letters to Bank One) that my application is back to "active review" status.

My only concern there is I have yet to see ANY posts on any related thread from people who called that number, heard the "your application is under review" message who subsequently got a card. Those "I'm still waiting" posts just trail off with no closure, and several people have implied that "your application is under review" system message is just code for "your request is D.O.A."

jctwizzer
04-17-2003, 10:20 PM
If you really think the amount of time you've put in writing various parties, not to mention the time put in describing the situation on these boards, is justified by your turn down, you may have too much time on your hands---sounds like you're going public with a grudge because you didn't get the attention you think you expected and/or deserved. If that's true, you've wasted your time, and ours! JMHO.:smooth:

mikeymars
04-17-2003, 10:46 PM
>>That's somantics.<<

I think you meant "semantics."

>>Disney supplies the lists and makes money. I'm sure there are some minor interactions, those Bank One people must come to WDW to have a few days of Mickey, errr meetings. Sure Disney's name goes on it and they have a stake in how thing are presented.<<

We don't disagree here - Disney is in this to make a profit, a larger one than they were getting out of the Disney Club Program (which is why they are killing the latter). I don't have the contract details (those are proprietary and I'm not "after " them), but I know from my the experience of my company and peers that on average, these things bring in about $1-2 million of pure profit a year per every 200,000 cardholders. In Disney's case, it will be more, because the points people get will be redemeemed for items (such as trips to DIsney properties) that bring in even more related income.

>>Which profits - merchant fees or interest?<<

Again, I don't know, I wasn't after that; my peer at Bank One is four steps removed from the initiative and hence doesn't have every contractual tidbit at hand.

>>I stand by my initial thought that nothing was done inappropriately.<<

Fine, but the Disney VP who manages the program just sent me a letter that disagrees with that view (they are having Bank One fix the typo and explained that the promotional mailings are supposed to supress the names of people who have already applied). I'm not celebrating that, but respect the fact she took my input seriously enough to act on it.

>> The only real issue is that you were turned down for a CC and didn't like how they did it.<<

That's sounds like an attempt to diminish and minimize my position as "sour grapes." If the senior management I've been communicating with felt your way, my input would be viewed as a frivilous annoyance, but that's not the message I'm getting now. DIsney VPs don't send two page personal letters via Fedex every time a complaint letter comes in.

>>That's not to say it could not have been done better. I've been known to go after issues for the principal of them but I can't hold a candle to you. I certainly wouldn't put this much effort of my personal time into something so trivial and if I were to use my work time, I'd have plenty of personal time.<<

I think you grossly overestimate the time and energy it takes some of us to "fight city hall." Writing and sending two letters is a big deal? At work, I have to punch out 7-8 memos and scores of emails every day!!!!

>>Let us know when you get the cards<<

I think the question is still "if"!

PamOKW
04-17-2003, 10:48 PM
Presumably, some unit at Disney provided Bank One with a file of existing Disney clientele (likely the obvious suspects such as members of the Disney Club, the Vacation Club, etc.) to use for this promotion.

They are most definetly sending "invites" to any name they have on any list. Several years ago I gave friends of ours a few nights at Vero. The reservation was in their name but with my address. A few days ago I got an application addressed to Mr. & Mrs. "Jones"....their name at my address. Unfortunately, Mr. Jones also passed away over a year ago. In this case, it's an application being sent to a dead man at a wrong address.

I just realized something else, don't most people who rent out points have the renters name and their own address (as I did above)? I guess lots of applications will be going out with odd name/address combos.

mikeymars
04-17-2003, 11:01 PM
>>If you really think the amount of time you've put in writing various parties, not to mention the time put in describing the situation on these boards, is justified by your turn down, you may have too much time on your hands---sounds like you're going public with a grudge because you didn't get the attention you think you expected and/or deserved. If that's true, you've wasted your time, and ours! JMHO<<

Sigh....more of the "sour grapes" stuff. What we smell here is what inevitably pops up on threads where someone dares to criticize the mouse in any way, shape or form: the "Disney can do no wrong" enforcers show up and personally attack the messenger. How dare we disrupt their private "magic". ;)

roymccoy
04-17-2003, 11:42 PM
Bank One is one of the worst (IMHO) credit card companies out there and I'm really surprised Disney partnered with them. They're one step above Household Finance or Providian in financial credit services. I wrote a post about this awhile back. I'm a mortgage broker and this has already hurt a couple of people who have came to me for home loans. Disney is marketing this thing as a Magic Kingdom Club Card or The DIsney Club replacement and it is not....it IS a credit card from a less than mid-range lender. Bank One does not use the typical credit scores or "FICO" scores that everyone knows about. They use their own internal credit scoring system that is unknown and is made up of 30 point system. They do not release what goes into the 30 points.
Obviously, mickeymars, you didn't have a high enough score with their system but, you can take solace in the fact that it probably didn't have anyhing to do with how long you have had credit or how you have paid all of your bills.
From what I understand, their scoring system knocks off points for having credit but not using it. They figure that you have enough and that you wouldn't use the line that they give you. Also, if you've ever even had ONE LATE on a revolving account (credit card) in the last 24 months, you will almost certainly get turned down.

Somebody mentioned Sears as being not a tough card to get. Sears is one of the TOUGHEST department store credit cards to get and they will report you late quicker than anyone in the industry, too!

The reason I am so against this Disney Rewards Card is the damage that can be done to peoples credit files. Apply for the card....get an inquiry. Get the card....get dinged because of new credit. Get a big limit...get dinged for having too much open credit. Use your big limit....get dinged for having balances to high to your limits. Miss a payment....get dinged for years. Apply for the card but don't get the card...FICO determines that you were probably turned down for it and dings your score. (This one has never been admitted by FICO, but I have seen it enough times to know that it is probably part of the FICO matrix.)

I think that I would just leave well enough alone and forget about applying for the BankOne card. It's a scam, IMHO.


Roy

Dean
04-18-2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by mikeymars
Sigh....more of the "sour grapes" stuff. What we smell here is what inevitably pops up on threads where someone dares to criticize the mouse in any way, shape or form: the "Disney can do no wrong" enforcers show up and personally attack the messenger. How dare we disrupt their private "magic". ;) I can guarantee you that's not the case. I've been known to be very hard on Disney and do not hold them in awe. Those that know me (most on the DVC board like PamOKW) can vouch for the same. No personal attack, just questioning the amount of effort and lengths you've gone to over what I consider to be trivial stuff. It only happens to be Disney, it could just as easily be Marriott or GM. To be clear, I don't feel that being turned down for the credit card to be trivial. If you'd put all this effort to that issue, I wouldn't blame you. Maybe that's really your focus but you just didn't portray it in this thread. I do feel the wording, orientation, composition and responses you've posted about to be trivial. Still it's interesting reading as I'm always amazed when someone goes more overboard than I do at times. I still wonder, will you accept and use the credit card if they offer now it?

Thanks for correcting my spelling, I'll punish my fingers later. As for how it's viewed, I sincerely doubt that Disney cares whether you personally were turned down or how it happened. What they likely care about is overall how Disney looks to the masses. This portion illustrates one of things I have liked about Disney over the years, they tend to be very personable and receptive. I don't doubt you did them a service and let them know about things they needed to correct, still it's seems like a lot of work and some unneeded expense as well as what comes across as something you've invested a lot of emotions into. That is your right and I applaud you for it. Good luck.

Luv2Roam
04-18-2003, 07:00 AM
The more I read about Bank One the more I am glad I never got around to applying.
Right away I thought it was odd. Like most, I get cc solictations daily via e-mail or in the mail. Usually all you have to do if you really wanted one is sign your name and that's it. (Which I think is too loose, but that is usually the way it's done.)
With bank One, it was a full app, which I haven't see in years. I just never got around to sitting down and filling it out. And don't feel bad about it now.
Compliments about Bank One are rare indeed. I read nothing but bad about them.

honeymom
04-18-2003, 07:10 AM
It sounds like you have a lot of experience with credit card marketing. You are right in that Disney/Bank One, could be doing a better job from the marketing (including dbase marketing) and public relations front.

I had no trouble getting the card. I don't think that Disney/Bank One should change their standards to suit all of the Disney fans. However, I do think you are right in that they can be more upfront and sensitive in their declines. Plus, they should be purging their database. Why would they spend money marketing to declines?

Even being a cardholder now - two things irk me.

1) I would never be able to find the card site if I weren't provided with the web address in the info packet. I tried to search for it, came up with Bank One Visa - tried to enter info to find my account and it had no clue who I was.

2) Although the card has offered some special discounts, they have yet to offer any specials that allow you to earn more than 1 reward dollar/$100 spent as they promised in their sign-up plea. Nor have they offered a chance for a reward dollar to be worth any more than a dollar as they also promised.

lisajl
04-18-2003, 07:35 AM
"they have yet to offer any specials that allow you to earn more than 1 reward dollar/$100 spent as they promised in their sign-up plea"


Well, I was declined. We have a lot of credit...thought it would be easy to get since we always pay on time, but I guess we have too much credit.
I am glad we did not get it now. Reading through these posts, especially the quote above makes me glad we were declined.

I love everything Disney, but not so much that I need to spend that much to get 1 reward dollar.

Good luck to those that still want it....I for one, am glad, we did not get it.

Lisajl

HorizonsFan
04-18-2003, 07:42 AM
My only concern there is I have yet to see ANY posts on any related thread from people who called that number, heard the "your application is under review" message who subsequently got a card.
Do a search and read more threads. There are many people who heard that message and subsequently got a card. I'm one...

disrailfan
04-18-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by mikeymars
Tuesday, April 8: over a MONTH after being declined by Bank One, I receive a fancy direct mail promotion piece from them and Disney inviting me to APPLY for the card. Of course, this package immediately raised the issue of “why are these firms mocking me, by sending an invitation to apply when they’ve ALREADY turned me down?!?!”

It only took a few seconds to answer that annoying question. Presumably, some unit at Disney provided Bank One with a file of existing Disney clientele (likely the obvious suspects such as members of the Disney Club, the Vacation Club, etc.) to use for this promotion. However, apparently no one at Bank One – which loves to present itself as one of the most sophisticated credit card marketers in the country, one that presumably “wrote the book” on database management – bothered to perform the basic, “direct mail 101” function of scrubbing the file to remove the names of Disney customers who had already applied, particularly those who had been turned down.


Bank one along with all of the other compnaies out there are really bad about Direct Mail. I once applied for a Discover Card and was turned down and not a week after receiving the declination letter I received what was touted as a pre-approved application for a Discover Platinum Card. I wrote them and indicated my discust and they wrote me back to explain that they were not sure why I received a declination letter and sent me a platinum card in response to my letter. Nedless to say I promptly cut up the card and mailed it back to them saying no thanks!

:rolleyes:

All Aboard
04-18-2003, 08:11 AM
Sigh....more of the "sour grapes" stuff. What we smell here is what inevitably pops up on threads where someone dares to criticize the mouse in any way, shape or form: the "Disney can do no wrong" enforcers show up and personally attack the messenger. How dare we disrupt their private "magic". Fear not. This post has made its way over to the rumors and news board (not sure if it started here.) So, there are plenty of folks here who share your concerns about the way Disney chooses to conduct itself lately.

It is ridiculous for anyone to believe that Disney's image isn't directly tied to this card. The word "Disney" is in triple the font as Bank One. The giant Mickey Head in the middle sure is visible. Anything and everything that occurs between the customers and Bank One has Disney's reputation riding on it.

CarolA
04-18-2003, 08:38 AM
This is just amazing!

I would like to point out that IT IS A CREDIT CARD! You aren't marrying the thing. You all are acting like this is the worse marketing fiasco in the history of mankind. Nope, nowhere close to New Coke!

Also, the person who made the comments about the impact taking this card could have on your credit report. That is true of ANY credit card. If a customer does not understand that don't blame Disney's marketing. The word VISA should have given them a clue!

chris1gill
04-18-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Dean
I've been known to go after issues for the principal of them but I can't hold a candle to you. I certainly wouldn't put this much effort of my personal time into something so trivial and if I were to use my work time, I'd have plenty of personal time. Let us know when you get the cards, will you use them after all of this?

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Dean... are you seriously concerned with this? Do you really care that they left out Disney's name in the declination letter? In the overall scheme of your life is this worth the hours you've put into it? Maybe you could put those hours to better use, like sitting on a plane to go to Disney?

lrodk
04-18-2003, 08:58 AM
Bank One seems to be pickier than most cc companies. I was initially declined because they needed to verify my identity. Once I sent copies of my ss# and utility bill they processed my application. In fact I called last night and they said that the cards were in the mail. I really didn't need this card, but decided it might be worthwhile in the event they were to offer discounted travel packages. I've since learned that they've already begun offering some sort of travel discounts. That was the real attraction for me, not so much the reward points. Time will tell if the offers will be consistant enough to satisfy former Disney Club card members.

WDWalways
04-18-2003, 09:10 AM
I just wanted to say that I was also declined and received a declination letter that stated First USA was declining me and I was actually VERY surprised that it also said that it was a platinum Visa - I thought it was just a plain Visa so it is definitely deceiving IMO for those who may not want such a high credit limit because no where in any of the literature I've seen, or the emails I've received (tons on this even though I was already declined) does it say anything about it being platinum - anyway, my main point was that my declination letter did not mention Bank One, just First USA and did not mention Disney either and I found it very confusing.

d-r
04-18-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by CarolA
This is just amazing!

I would like to point out that IT IS A CREDIT CARD! You aren't marrying the thing. You all are acting like this is the worse marketing fiasco in the history of mankind. Nope, nowhere close to New Coke!

Also, the person who made the comments about the impact taking this card could have on your credit report. That is true of ANY credit card. If a customer does not understand that don't blame Disney's marketing. The word VISA should have given them a clue!

The problem is after making such a big deal about enhancing their relationships with their long-term customers, Disney decided to make some quick capital by replacing the disney club with a credit card. This means that Disney allows another company to decide who those loyal customers are, based upon the credit score, and that loyal customers who do not wish to change their finances to have a new credit card are left out in the cold. If you don't think there is a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you, but I think it is the hugest freaking mistake disney has made since, well, at least since Cinderella II. It is certainly not the type of relationship management that they had been promising!

DR

DisneyKidds
04-18-2003, 09:43 AM
The problem is after making such a big deal about enhancing their relationships with their long-term customers, Disney decided to make some quick capital by replacing the disney club with a credit card. This means that Disney allows another company to decide who those loyal customers are, based upon the credit score, and that loyal customers who do not wish to change their finances to have a new credit card are left out in the cold. If you don't think there is a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you, but I think it is the hugest freaking mistake disney has made since, well, at least since Cinderella II. It is certainly not the type of relationship management that they had been promising!
I haven't had much to say about the whole Disney Visa thing. I do have to say that I agree with the good DR.

We have chosen not to apply for this card. We have worked very hard to get RID of credit cards so the last thing I want is another one. Given that the reward points are pitiful and there don't seem to be Disney Club type discounts attached to this card, I can't see getting rid of one of my long term, existing, lower interest rate credit cards for this one.

What does that mean for me as a loyal, long term, Magic Kingdon Club/Disney Club member, DVC owning, multiple trip per year, Disney Store spending, Disney video buying, Disney movie seeing, Disney stock holding consumer/fan/idiot (can't decide which I am at the moment :() :confused:. Not much, other than my business isn't all that valued.

Maybe we can start a new transportation analogy..............................because, while I am in car 2 when it comes to Disney and the vacation experience WDW provides, I barely have a grip on the bumper of car 3 when it comes to Disney's relationship management. All I can say is that it is good that I will get one more DC discount on the next round of AP's. After that it will be no more discounts on those....................................and I can only wonder if I will continue to buy them, especially considering that the very real possibility exists that I will spend as much, if not more, time at Universal on our annual, traditionally Disney, December trip.

Guess what, it's been a while since I've communicated with Disney - and I think I will put all of this in an email and shoot it off to them.

dturner
04-18-2003, 09:52 AM
I just have to put in my two cents on this subject.

Me and DH both applied separately for the Bank One/Disney Visa online the first of March, weeks went by nothing. I called that number and got the same exact message about your application is under review, you will receive a letter within 7-10 days blah, blah, blah, weeks later nothing. Last week I got a rejection letter but still nothing on DH. I'm just assuming that we both were turned down and I've read a lot of posts on numerous Disney websites of people getting turned down when they have good credit. I was dissapointed as I am a very loyal Disney addict (own stock, numerous visits to WDW, blah, blah blah) until last Saturday when I opened my mailbox and found the Universal Visa card. Chase bank offers the Universal Visa and we were approved but not by Bank One? go figure!! I'm just wondering what credit criteria Bank One is using because we have good credit, not too many credit cards, pay ontime and can get one bank Visa but not the other.

mikeymars
04-18-2003, 09:58 AM
>>The problem is after making such a big deal about enhancing their relationships with their long-term customers, Disney decided to make some quick capital by replacing the disney club with a credit card. This means that Disney allows another company to decide who those loyal customers are, based upon the credit score, and that loyal customers who do not wish to change their finances to have a new credit card are left out in the cold. If you don't think there is a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you, but I think it is the hugest freaking mistake disney has made since, well, at least since Cinderella II. It is certainly not the type of relationship management that they had been promising!
<<

DR, bless you - I couldn't have stated the bottom line of this situation better, particularly your EXCELLENT, right-on-the-money point about Disney letting another company decide who the "valuable" Disney customers are, based not upon their loyalty but solely on their credit score, and just how foolish that is.

If it's O.K. with you, I'd like to share your comment with Disney Management, particularly Dinah Keefe, the VP for Relationship Management and Disney President Robert Iger.

>>but I have to agree with Dean... are you seriously concerned with this? <<

Yes, and read through this whole thread - I'm not alone.

wdwguide
04-18-2003, 10:00 AM
"they have yet to offer any specials that allow you to earn more than 1 reward dollar/$100 spent as they promised in their sign-up plea"

---

That's true, but they are offering some nice hotel discounts right now, about 40% off.

Atrange thing is my wife got her (secondary) card a couple of weeks ago while mine (who actually applied) still hasn't gotten here yet...

KNWVIKING
04-18-2003, 10:04 AM
.... I'm reserving my judgement of how good or bad the CC is until after the DC card expires. Look at it this way: People paid $39.00 for DC in order to cash in on the discounts. Now Disney issues it's Visa. If this Visa immediately had the same discounts as DC, wouldn't you as a DC member be upset that suddenly Visa members are getting for free what you had paid $39.00 to obtain ?

I also don't understand all the bashing of Bank 1 because they are stricter with application & approval standards. Isn't that what any responsable lender should be ? People that pay their bills suffer additional expense from deadbeats that don't. Is it in my best interest to have Bank 1 issue cards to just anyone ?

DisneyKidds
04-18-2003, 10:14 AM
mikey.....................All of a sudden I feel the need to communicate my thoughts about things Disney, including their record on relationship management, with Disney management. It looks like you have the ear of the right group of people. If you wouldn't mind, PM me with the names and addresses of those within Disney that you have corresponded with. Thanks.

DisneyKidds
04-18-2003, 10:20 AM
That's true, but they are offering some nice hotel discounts right now, about 40% off.
Don't get me going on that. As has been pointed out, access to these discounts is largely being determined by someone other than Disney and is not available to all Disney fans/consumers. It irks me that they are offering such limited availability discounts to those few people who earn Disney a buck by holding the new credit card while they are ignoring Disney AP holders by not offering any AP resort discounts. Disney clearly has lost sight of who is butttering their bread.

You know, we can debate the pros and cons of Disney from a theme park/movie/merchandise perspective till the cows come home and I never come away with a bad feeling about Disney. However, when it come to Disney's relationship management their record and actions make me sick.

mikeymars
04-18-2003, 11:11 AM
>>I also don't understand all the bashing of Bank 1 because they are stricter with application & approval standards.<<

You're incorrect here. Stricter isn't the sole criteria, it's also how deep they think they can get into your wallet.

You can have excellent credit and STILL be turned down by Bank One. How so? If their proprietary model suggests you won't use their card as much as others in your wallet.

In my case, I strongly suspect I was turned down because I have one -- repeat, one -- credit card with a small line that I really don't use; people who know the Bank One say that is a killer per their formula. Having a card with better "point" benefits -- such as the Amex Rewards Plus -- also hurts your score (because they fear you will use that card more regularly than theirs).

CarolA
04-18-2003, 11:17 AM
I have a SW rewards card and Delta Amex and I got this card. So much for the multiple reward card theory.

KNWVIKING
04-18-2003, 11:23 AM
"You're incorrect here. Stricter isn't the sole criteria, it's also how deep they think they can get into your wallet."

I'd don't know how correct this statement is so I won't outright say it's wrong, but it makes very little sense.Wayne Gretzky had a quote that I always liked: "100% of the shots never taken don't go in". If Bank 1 won't issue a card to a person with good credit, then they will make zero profit. After going thru the entire application process,issueing the card doesn't cost that much more then rejecting one. If Bank 1 looked at customers the way you imply they do, then I never would have been issued one because they could see I have cards with lower rates and greater perks.

mikeymars
04-18-2003, 12:04 PM
>>I have a SW rewards card and Delta Amex and I got this card. So much for the multiple reward card theory.<<

You presume. Per what I've been told by our staff who work with Bank One, the issue isn't just having a reward card, it's what particular reward card as well as how frequentlyand heavily it's used.

>>If Bank 1 won't issue a card to a person with good credit, then they will make zero profit. <<

Revolving credit profitabiity model 101: "good" credit isn't enough; the lender won't make a cent on you if you don't regularly REVOLVE the card.

Bank One (and for that matter any lender) can employ the generic Equifax/Trans Union/whatever reports to measure both level and frequency of revolving by month for the past two years. You may have "good" credit, but if their model assesses your history and senses you're not a potentially heavy revolver, you get a LOW potential profitability score, which hurts your application. This is why many people who have so-called "good" credit history are being turned down by Bank One - the model is predicting these people won't meet some profitability hurdle.

Or stated differently, this whole "relationship management" strategy has absolutely nothing to do with building client loyalty. It's all simply about raising the bottom line of the two marketing partners.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-18-2003, 12:48 PM
Not seeing the forest for the trees is one thing, but all you jokers arguing leaves vs bark vs roots won't never understand not a thing the other is saying.

1. BankOne's equations are designed (like FastPass, incidentally) to maximize the return on resources. There is a certain amount of overhead associated with every account, so accounts that are used more frequently for larger transactions are simply better investments for BankOne. Yes, they are very willing to turn down even guaranteed business if their models suggest that business won't be profitable.

2. BankOne's practice of treating individual human beings as percentages of profitability is SOP for modern business.

3. Some people believe Disney's historical appeal and incredible customer loyalty was largely due to the way it treated individual human beings.

So it is logical to see the BankOne Disney credit card in several lights, all dead-on accurate.

1. BankOne is actually doing the wise thing by implementing this strategy; it will ensure them a greater payback on investment than banks who use use traditional credit scores.

2. It's only a matter of time before all the other credit cards do this, Disney was smart to hit the wave early and stands to profit for it.

3. The Disney Credit Card that has been offered as a repalcement for the Disney Club Card (and, by extension, The Magic Kingdom Club Card) is Another Brick In The Wall... the credit card will be The Straw That Breaks The Camel's Back for a lot more mouse-ear sporting camels... the credit card is another step Down The Slippery Slope... of Disney losing that which made it special.

So stop arguing... every one of you is right.

-WFH

PS: And questionning the "life-having" status of those who think point #3 is important simply on the basis that you don't agree? That's just small-minded and rude. Y'all ain't from around the Rumors and News Board, are y'all?

Dean
04-18-2003, 12:51 PM
i can't speak to their busienss model but I have an AMEX Delta card, Marriott Platinum, Discover, two USAA cards. All but one are Platinum level limits. I have high limits when they look at that area. I do use the cards but ALWAYS pay them off every month. They make the per dollar charges on the merchants but lose money on me. I've heard that's worse than not using them from the company standpoint but I can't speak to the formula.

sandieb
04-18-2003, 01:01 PM
" "If it's O.K. with you, I'd like to share your comment with Disney Management, particularly Dinah Keefe, the VP for Relationship Management and Disney President Robert Iger."

Mikeymars - How do you contact them? I did get the Disney Bank One card, but it certainly has none of the magic of the Disney Club or the benefits of the Disney Club. I would much rather have Disney offer a credit card as such, not as a replacement for the Disney Club.

It certainly doesn't respond to the family that vacations in WDW, owns at DVC, buys Disney toys and clothes for the grandchildren, is planning a cruise on the DCL, and has decorated the guest bath in Pooh.

I have used the same credit card for years, the LL Bean MBNA card, and have had good service and prompt, knowledgable answers whenever I had a question. I am going back to them.

Thanks for your posts. Sandie

rtkane
04-18-2003, 01:05 PM
The best part of this thread was learning that there's someone here with the name Walt's Frozen Head. I love it.

crusader
04-18-2003, 01:07 PM
Watch it - wouldn't want to stroke that ego too much!

mikeymars
04-18-2003, 01:13 PM
>>Mikeymars - How do you contact them? I did get the Disney Bank One card, but it certainly has none of the magic of the Disney Club or the benefits of the Disney Club. I would much rather have Disney offer a credit card as such, not as a replacement for the Disney Club.<<

Ask and ye shall receive:

Ms. Dinah Keefe
Vice President, Disney Relationship Management
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-0329
(818) 560-3804

Mr. Robert A. Iger
President and Chief Operating Officer
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-0239

And if you feel like giving Bank One a piece of your mind:

Mr. Carter Warren
Chief Marketing Officer
Bank One Card Services
P.O. Box 8650
Wilmington, DE 19899

d-r
04-18-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by mikeymars
>>
If it's O.K. with you, I'd like to share your comment with Disney Management, particularly Dinah Keefe, the VP for Relationship Management and Disney President Robert Iger.


Please do - thanks-

DR

DemoBri1
04-18-2003, 01:55 PM
DR, bless you - I couldn't have stated the bottom line of this situation better, particularly your EXCELLENT, right-on-the-money point about Disney letting another company decide who the "valuable" Disney customers are, based not upon their loyalty but solely on their credit score, and just how foolish that is.


So...Mikeymars...what u r saying is that if it were your company you would let anyone have your card because they were a loyal customer to your parter in the venture? That seems like a fairly senseless business statement to me. Yes...you do want to reward loyalty, but at the expense of your own business?? I'd think not.

I think the big problem with all of these declines, even people with good ratings, is that they are attempting to give you too large a limit on the card. If you have too much credit limit amongst your cards, your credit rating can be adversely affected.

In response to receiving applications after you have already received cards or applied for them...I have news for everyone, there isn't a single credit card company out there that doesn't have that problem. If you have found one, consider yourself lucky.

Sarangel
04-18-2003, 03:31 PM
if it were your company you would let anyone have your card because they were a loyal customer to your parter in the venture? I think you mis-understand. The point I keep seeing being made is that DISNEY could have chosen a better way to reward their loyal customers than choosing to offer a credit card that excludes (voluntarily or involuntarily) a fairly high percentage of their loyal fan base.

Sarangel

All Aboard
04-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Exactly Sarangel, the Disney Club was available to anyone who was willing to spend $39. It's replacement is available to a MUCH smaller subset of that group.

d-r
04-18-2003, 04:32 PM
that's it exactly - I couldn't care less how bank one selects people for credit cards. I don't care anything about bank one, for that matter, they can use whatever practices they like. What I don't like is Disney forcing people to get a credit card to be considered a loyal repeat guest, or Disney allowing bank one to decide for them who their loyal customers are. Man, talk about a high maintanence relationship; it is a little too demanding for me.

pwoodham
04-18-2003, 06:34 PM
After reading this thread, I'm wondering why we got approved for the card. I'm not going to bare my financial soul, but from all the conjecture about Bank One's 30 point system, I would have surmised we would never have been approved.

I had no problem with the application process, but I was surprised at what happened when I used the card the first time. I charged about $200 at a home decor store, went across the street to another store, had a total purchase of about $200 again, and was told they would have to "call in" to get approval. The automatic system was not allowing the charge to go through. My credit limit was not an issue. You know how it is when you're standing in line, and this was going to take several minutes, so I just used another card (or wrote a check, I don't remember). That evening, I got a call from Bank One asking me to verify the $200 charge. I am still confused about why a $200 charge would prompt such action, especially since it was the first charge on the card. I've had LOTS of credit cards, and never had this kind of experience before. It made me think they really didn't want me to use the card. I have used it since, with no problems, but it's made me a little shy of using it for anything over $50 or so.

Not a huge deal, but certainly not consistent with my other credit card experiences. I guess I agree that if Disney wanted to keep up its great customer service reputation, perhaps they should have selected a different financial partner.

freediverdude
04-18-2003, 08:16 PM
Pwoodham,
Yep, that sounds like an Amex card I had once. I repeat DID HAVE (past tense). Evidently some of these companies do some sort of "purchasing habit profile" on you, and if you try to make a charge (or charges) that are more than what they expect, they make the store call them and put you on the phone and talk to you and ask you questions about being able to pay for the charge and crap like that. I don't know if that's what Bank One is doing, but if it is, I'm definitely glad I didn't get one now. It got so that any time I wanted to charge something over about $100 they wanted to talk to me on the phone there in the store, and ask me if my bank account contained enough money to pay for the bill, and were generally rude about it, even though we paid the bill every month. It didn't take long before I was just over it, and cancelled the card. I hope it won't be that way for you, because I wouldn't wish that kind of treatment on anybody.

Dean
04-18-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by gcurling
Exactly Sarangel, the Disney Club was available to anyone who was willing to spend $39. It's replacement is available to a MUCH smaller subset of that group. I know it's been speculated on this board and elsewhere that this CC is a replacement for the DC and MKCC but I've never seen or heard anything from Disney that said that in any way, maybe I've missed it. Indications are more that they are cutting down on the discounts rather than substituting a different method for accessing them. This could just be another way to make money, plain and simple. Only time will tell.

SAKPEG99OKW
04-18-2003, 10:05 PM
My DW and I recently refinanced, no cash out. We have gold amex as well as green double rewards. We pay all our bills on time if not early. All credit cards have very low balences if not zero. And we were declined also. My DW was very upset. Took the decline as an insult. Personaly I don't think the card has any value. The points schedule seems very, very high. The discounts on rooms seem no better the free codes already issued.

We are DVC members and our discounts with that seem to be as good if not better the the visa card. I am glad we got declined. Personally, I feel that disney has insulted all the Disney club members by cxling the club, in creating this card. Basicly disney has said that anybody with low income or bad credit is'nt entitled to get a discount or benefits from them.

Who needs the card or bank one. I have my DVC membership plus my AP's. I have all the discounts I need. And if by chance the visa card offers a discount which i can not get, then so be it!, Disney will just loose a sale, that they would have had if they left things alone.

Just my thoughts.

P.S. Excuse the spelling, it's been a long day.

Scott, Peg and Tyler

roymccoy
04-19-2003, 12:01 AM
sakpeg99okw...I think you answered your own question as to why you guys were turned down for this card. You said the following:

"All of our CC have low balances" - This would hurt you with BankOne's 30 point scoring system. They don't really want to loan out money to people who already have credit available that they are not using.

"we have a gold AMEX and a green AMEX" - AMEX doesn't show up on your credit report. (Unless it's a revolving type. It will also show up if you pay it 30 days late.)

"we recently refinanced, no cash-out" - Credit card companies don't care too much about mortgage balances, only if you pay them on time.


You shouldn't feel bad AT ALL if you're turned down for this card. Actually, the argument could be made that if you GET accepted for the card, THAT'S when you should maybe be concerned...you should wonder why you looked so attractive to BankOne.

What people have to remember is a credit card company can only "lend" a certain amount of money out at a time. Let's say for example, that they can loan out $1,000,000 in revolving credit. If they give you a $10,000 credit limit and you only use $1000 of it, you're not really what they're looking for. They want the guy who is going to keep a $9500.00 balance and ask for more.

Also, it's good to remember that the FICO matrix probably (they keep the matrix a secret) has a formula to ding you if you have a lot of available credit even if you aren't using it. Lenders are always afraid that, if times got tough, you could run those cards up to the limits and get over-extended.

Credit scoring is such a fickle thing....every lender is looking for something different. A mortgage lender is looking for someone with at least three "trades" and a good job, steady money, not a lot of credit card debt and reserves in the bank. Credit card companies are looking for someone willing to carry a little more unsecured debt.

I would actually look for a little higher decline rate with BankOne's Disney Card. Disney people on a whole, I would assume, are a little more family oriented and probably a little more apt to own a home and maybe be a little more financially secure than the general population. This isn't neccesarily the group that BankOne would be jumping up and down for.

Roy

sandieb
04-19-2003, 07:42 AM
"Although we are closing The Disney ClubSM at the end of 2003, we will continue to bring you new ways of connecting to the magic of Disney. We appreciate your interest and look forward to seeing you at a Disney destination soon!"

Dean - This is off the Disney Club web site. The ONLY information about new ways to connect ...is the banner for a credit card! I am insulted when I think about this.
Sandie B

Dean
04-19-2003, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by sandieb
"Although we are closing The Disney ClubSM at the end of 2003, we will continue to bring you new ways of connecting to the magic of Disney. We appreciate your interest and look forward to seeing you at a Disney destination soon!"

Dean - This is off the Disney Club web site. The ONLY information about new ways to connect ...is the banner for a credit card! I am insulted when I think about this.
Sandie B I guess my point was that Disney has promised nothing about the credit card though I think it's reasonable to assume there will be some offers at least for a while. There's alwasy the FL resident specials, Play Four (or whatever this years name is) and the AP discounts but many people don't qualify or you must buy the AP which is a big chunk if you don't need that type of admission option. Hopefully they will as that's the only reason I got the card. I sure as heck didn't need another credit card and don't plan on using it routinely. I did use it to book a cruise to get the $50 ship board credit.

rtkane
04-19-2003, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by freediverdude
It got so that any time I wanted to charge something over about $100 they wanted to talk to me on the phone there in the store, and ask me if my bank account contained enough money to pay for the bill, and were generally rude about it, even though we paid the bill every month.
Wow.. I've never heard of that before. I've had credit cards that I've used infrequently and then decided to charge on in multiple stores in a singled day--when that happened, I got one of those exceptions where the store manager had to put me on the phone with the CC company, but it was only to verify identity, NEVER to discuss whether or not I could make the payment. As a word of advice for those of you out there concerned about putting a large charge on a credit card and having it "flagged" or held up, call your CC company in advance and tell them what you're planning on doing. 95% of the time they'll let the charge go through w/out question. As an example, we recently got the Disney Card and put a $21,000 charge on it (when we bought into DVC). I just called a few days before and told them to expect it.

I agree with some of the other posts, however, that it's really a bad deal for the points you get for each dollar spent. We were going to pay cash for DVC, but figured that's probably about the only time we'll earn some real points on this card so we charged it and paid it off right away. Though it nets out to only $210 points.

MelissathePooh
04-19-2003, 09:53 AM
Dean -

The Disney Visa has nothing to do with FL residents - it is or at least what is supposed to be - the replacement for the DC. It has been marketed that way from the beginning - although what was promised/marketed and what actually came about are two completely different things.

Disney said that the replacement program for DC would be the wonderfully individual preferences based rewards program - tailored to each family based on past traveling experiences. There was never a mention that certain people would not be eligible - it was to replace the DC and be available to anyone. At the last minute it became a financial decision that had nothing to do with the guest experience.

Melissa
Melissa

Dean
04-19-2003, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by MelissathePooh
Dean -

The Disney Visa has nothing to do with FL residents - it is or at least what is supposed to be - the replacement for the DC. It has been marketed that way from the beginning - although what was promised/marketed and what actually came about are two completely different things.

Disney said that the replacement program for DC would be the wonderfully individual preferences based rewards program - tailored to each family based on past traveling experiences. There was never a mention that certain people would not be eligible - it was to replace the DC and be available to anyone. At the last minute it became a financial decision that had nothing to do with the guest experience.

Melissa
Melissa Maybe, I just haven't seen anything from Disney that said the CC was a replacement for the DC. Maybe they did and I didn't see it. All I've seen is advertisements for the card and hype associated and a separate indication from Disney that a replacement would be coming for the DC. I think many people just assumed they were the same, which I think is a reasonable assumption but not automatic. I'd love to be wrong as I have the Disney CC and don't plan to pay for another discount card.

I know the CC is not related to FL residents, just quoting some of the current discounts available at WDW and wondering if they're decreasing the built in disscounts in favor of those directed at specific areas like a time of the year or resort that is underutiilized.

TIdoublegaER
04-19-2003, 10:43 AM
It got so that any time I wanted to charge something over about $100 they wanted to talk to me on the phone there in the store, and ask me if my bank account contained enough money to pay for the bill, and were generally rude about it, even though we paid the bill every month.

I too have never experienced this. Only the call to check identity if I make multiple charges at the same store (or mall) on the same day. I have also had the card company call after I get back from vacation, especially when we drive. They just want to make sure we knew "someone" was using our card in IL, TN, KY, GA, SC and FL!

I do wonder at times why CC companies give the credit limits that they do. We have a $30,000 limit on one of our cards and our highest balance in 3 years has been $5000 and that's because I put my grad school tuition on it. We didn't ask for that much credit, that's just what they gave us - probably hoping we would charge it up. Little did they know!

We thought about giving up our current MC to get the Disney visa, but frankly I don't think its worth it. The MC has a fixed 7.9% APR and doesn't use the 2 billing cycle method for calcuating finance charges. We very rarely carry over a balance, but if we do why should I pay more interest on it? We'd probably get turned down because we pay off our cards every month.

I hope this really isn't Disney's answer to the DC, but it just might be.:rolleyes:

MelissathePooh
04-19-2003, 11:11 AM
From the LA Times last October:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disney said Monday it would replace the Disney Club with a "co-branded" Disney/Visa credit card with which customers will be able to accumulate points that can be redeemed toward discounts on Disney merchandise and vacations.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And from the Orlando Sentinal, concerning the demise of the disney club and the introduction of the credit card:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"We have not forgotten these club members," Foster said. "We do feel like we're developing a program that is going to be much better than the Disney Club."



In the past regardless of what other special offers have been available (FL resident offers, room/package discount codes, emails, postcards) there has ALWAYS been another program that was available to ANYONE who wanted to join. Now there is NO such program. But anyone can still be an official loyal Disney guest as long as they aren't Canadian, Eurpean, etc... or deemed unworthy by Bank one.

Frankly its disgusting, deplorable and detestable. Anyone who considers themselves a loyal guest should be offended, IMHO.

Melissa

mikeymars
04-19-2003, 11:21 AM
>>So...Mikeymars...what u r saying is that if it were your company you would let anyone have your card because they were a loyal customer to your parter in the venture? That seems like a fairly senseless business statement to me. Yes...you do want to reward loyalty, but at the expense of your own business?? I'd think not.<<

Rather than responding to this myself, I'll let the well-spoken Sarangel speak for me:

"I think you mis-understand. The point I keep seeing being made is that DISNEY could have chosen a better way to reward their loyal customers than choosing to offer a credit card that excludes (voluntarily or involuntarily) a fairly high percentage of their loyal fan base."

>>In response to receiving applications after you have already received cards or applied for them...I have news for everyone, there isn't a single credit card company out there that doesn't have that problem. If you have found one, consider yourself lucky.<<

Smart firms DO scrub files to avoid this, because if they don't, they annoy clients. My company always scrubs these types of files one to two days prior to mailing. Always.

And that isn't "rare." The letter I received Thursday from Disney management admitted this and apologized for the fact I had received an invitation to apply after already being turned down!!!! ;)

DisneyKidds
04-19-2003, 12:49 PM
Maybe, I just haven't seen anything from Disney that said the CC was a replacement for the DC.
Maybe they haven't said it directly to most of us, but the handwriting is on the wall. The quotes from respected news sources kind of lay it out as well.

PatriciaH
04-19-2003, 09:51 PM
I have $0 debt and always pay off my cards every month if I put anything on them. I have a platinum cash back card, a platinum phone card/cc and the Disney Visa. I TOLD them I only wanted $1,000 limit on it-they still gave it to me. I also TOLD my other 2 cards the limit I wanted on them and to never raise it without asking me. My credit score is over 800 so maybe this is why? Anyway they will never make any finance charge money off of me:)

roymccoy
04-20-2003, 12:22 AM
PatriciaH...you have ideal credit as far as the FICO score is concerned. However, you also have a credit profile which could be very volatile. As long as you don't put anything on your credit cards, you're fine but if you ever do carry a balance of any kind, your score could plummet. Credit scoring is all based on how the average person with your similar circumstances pays their bills. If you were to say, put $4000 on your credit card it could hit you much harder than someone who keeps $4000 on their cards all the time. The difference is the length of time that you have carried a balance as compared to the other person. Anytime a person's credit habits change, it changes their score. I see it all the time. People wih the "best" credit scores usually owe no money and only have a couple of trades. What happens is that as soon as those people apply for and receive credit, their score usually goes down by a hefty percentage. I've seen 800 FICO scores go down into the 600's just by getting one card and running it up to the limit.

I guess what I am saying is, a high score is good, but a high score because you just don't have a lot of credit can be very volatile when you do go to get and use new credit. There just isn't very much history to look back on for that person.

Roy

P.S. The person who impresses me the most is the one with an 800 FICO score even with a couple of credit card balances, a Mercedes lease and a jumbo mortgage. That person has weathered the bumps of being new and established and came out with a pretty bulletproof score.

honeymom
04-20-2003, 04:04 PM
I don't know. I think the formula to who they give the card to must have more to do with debt to income ratio than to having low balances, not using revolving credit etc. I think it is also possible that if you check your credit report that there may be mistakes that you can have corrected on it.

We tend to pay off our balances and don't keep a lot of cards anymore. So don't ask me why, but we had no problem getting the card although some of you in the same situation did. That's why I would check your credit reports.

Yes, they have offered a good room discount so far. Unfortunately, this discount wound up being available to population at large - so much for the advantage of having the card.

Still, I know a Disney vacation is somewhere in our future - so I'm buying my broccoli to get more of those reward dollars!

mikeymars
04-20-2003, 04:29 PM
>>Do a search and read more threads. There are many people who heard that message and subsequently got a card. I'm one...<<

I have no reason to doubt your experience, but after quite a bit of searching (on a bunch of the other boards) I'm still having a tough time finding any the other threads you imply are out there with that story.

However, I don't have any problems finding ones with the scenario I mentioned (ergo, a "I've been getting the "your application is under review" message for days/weeks now, but haven't gotten any card," post appears, from an author who subsequently dissapears and never returns to close their story.:confused:

PatriciaH
04-20-2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by roymccoy
PatriciaH...you have ideal credit as far as the FICO score is concerned. However, you also have a credit profile which could be very volatile. As long as you don't put anything on your credit cards, you're fine but if you ever do carry a balance of any kind, your score could plummet. Credit scoring is all based on how the average person with your similar circumstances pays their bills. If you were to say, put $4000 on your credit card it could hit you much harder than someone who keeps $4000 on their cards all the time.

I put big charges on my cards every few months. I am a travel agent and travel a lot:) Then I pay them off. It has never affected my score.

KNWVIKING
04-20-2003, 05:22 PM
I have zero debt,I have several reward cards,gold and plat, I do have high limits but never carry a balance. I pay everything possible with my cards, including seven years of college-so far- for my two boys,three DVC purchases and even my all-time favorite points/reward churner, US savings bonds. I have know idea what my "score" is, but if Bank 1 gives this card based on the criteria posted here,then why did I get this card ? Because I carry no balance,I must not be very profitable to them.

HorizonsFan
04-20-2003, 06:09 PM
However, I don't have any problems finding ones with the scenario I mentioned (ergo, a "I've been getting the "your application is under review" message for days/weeks now, but haven't gotten any card," post appears, from an author who subsequently dissapears and never returns to close their story.
Is this because they got the card or not? Personally, I would be more likely to post if I were declined. I just don't think "under review" is a secret code...

BCVOwner2002
04-20-2003, 06:15 PM
After reading all of these posts I have to put my two cents in too! I was declined the CC and after reading all of these posts am happy I was!!! The only thing that I was upset about is that the card is replacing DC and I have always enjoyed the $aving$. If there isn't something available to all then I think Disney (not BankOne) is discriminating against a large group of people. (Any lawyers here? Class action ringing in your ear). If Disney replaced a $39 plan (which many people have newspaper articles) with a program that is not available to the same group of people I think that could be an issue. Now once again, this will spawn some discussion and I am not a lawyer but am posing the question. Annmarie

HorizonsFan
04-20-2003, 06:29 PM
If there isn't something available to all then I think Disney (not BankOne) is discriminating against a large group of people. (Any lawyers here? Class action ringing in your ear). If Disney replaced a $39 plan (which many people have newspaper articles) with a program that is not available to the same group of people I think that could be an issue.
Are you really saying that a company who offers a discount plan can never eliminate that plan without being sued? Discrimination occurs when rights are violated. Nobody has a right to a Disney discount!
I'm still having a tough time finding any the other threads you imply are out there with that story.
Here's one with several folks saying they got the card after the "under review" message.
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=339696&perpage=15&highlight=%20visa%20%20under%20%20review&pagenumber=6

KNWVIKING
04-20-2003, 06:36 PM
I doubt the law requires Disney to offer discounts to everybody. I don't get newspapers, I doubt I can sue Betty Crocker because I'm not getting the coupons people do that buy newspapers. Can I sue because Fl residents get better discounts then NJ ?

And I'm just curious: Has anybody lost a discount yet ? The DC club is still in affect. The Dis Visa is up and running. Maybe we should wait to see what happens at the end of 2003 when DC ends. Maybe they start something new,maybe they add discounts to the Visa card. Maybe none of the above.

BCVOwner2002
04-20-2003, 06:45 PM
I was only being sarcastic about a lawsuit! LOL!! That's what I like about these boards - always many opinions to a subject and you don't even have to be on the Debate Board either!

I agree that we really won't know if there will be anything (other than what's been stated) replacing DC but I know that I will miss the benefits.

Annmarie

HorizonsFan
04-20-2003, 07:39 PM
I was only being sarcastic about a lawsuit!
Sorry for taking your post at face-value. Perhaps some sort of smiley might communicate your meaning more clearly. ;)

cherylp3
04-20-2003, 07:46 PM
I have a question and a simple solution: Why couldn't Bank One and/or Disney add the option of a secured card for those who were rejected.

Definition of a secured card:
A credit card that a card holder secures with a security deposit to ensure payment of the outstanding balance if the card holder defaults on payments.

- Cheryl

HorizonsFan
04-20-2003, 07:54 PM
Why couldn't Bank One and/or Disney add the option of a secured card for those who were rejected.
An EXCELLENT idea! Or they could offer a normal Visa instead of just the platinum.

mikeymars
04-21-2003, 10:06 AM
Just a couple of point on some of the issues recently brought up on this thread.

The Disney "Rewards Program" --which is ONLY available to those holding the Bank One VISA card -- is THE replacment for the Disney Club when it closes at the end of this year. Disney has no plans to start up any other membership program that offers regular ongoing discounts.

So as some others have stated, prior members of the Magic Kingdom and Disney Clubs who either don't want or can't get the new VISA card are being completely left out in the cold.

As for the "secured" credit recommendation, that implies that those who are being turned down for the Bank One VISA are "credit risks."

That's not really the issue: search these boards, and you'll find that plenty of those who are being turned down have good credit histories: long term home owners who have worked for the same firm for decades who have little or no debt. In other words, Bank One is turning us down not because we are "risky" but because their proprietary analysis model (they have their own 30 point system, they do NOT use FICO) predicts we won't be particularly profitable to them (particularly those who don't carry balances).

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 10:17 AM
"The Disney "Rewards Program" --which is ONLY available to those holding the Bank One VISA card -- is THE replacment for the Disney Club when it closes at the end of this year. Disney has no plans to start up any other membership program that offers regular ongoing discounts."

Where have you read an official release from Disney stating this. There have been announcements that the DC is ending. There obviously have been info on the Visa card. But I have never seen a Disney release stating the new rewards card is the replacement for the DC. Disney has also stated there will be more discounts coming to the Visa card. If the Visa is the replacement, MAYBE they will give the card many of the DC benifits. I guess I'm not ready to trash Disney on this issue yet because nothing is for certain and I have yet to lose any of the benifits the DC offers plus I am earning reward dollars.

mikeymars
04-21-2003, 11:37 AM
>>But I have never seen a Disney release stating the new rewards card is the replacement for the DC.<<

Disney isn't going to be that simplistically blunt, but they haven't been able to cover up the industry grapevine. The quote below from a story about the closing of the Disney Club (from the laughingplace.com, the best source of information on what's really going on inside Disney) tells the story.

In particular, please note the use of the word "replace" in their report below. Not "add to," or "in addition," or "as another option," but replace.

"In a cryptic note to current club members, Disney says that it will continue to bring new ways to connect to the Disney magic and will inform members as "exciting new opportunities develop."
According to an article in the Orlando Sentinel, Disney says that it plans to replace the Disney Club with a "co-branded" Disney/Visa credit cardin which cardholders will be able to earn points (presumably by charging up a fortune) for discounts on Disney vacations and merchandise."

DisneyKidds
04-21-2003, 12:23 PM
Disney has also stated there will be more discounts coming to the Visa card. If the Visa is the replacement, MAYBE they will give the card many of the DC benifits. I guess I'm not ready to trash Disney on this issue yet because nothing is for certain and I have yet to lose any of the benifits the DC offers plus I am earning reward dollars.
It seems you might be missing the point Mr. Viking. It won't make it any better if they provide more discounts via the Visa card. It won't make it any better if they give the Visa card many of the DC benefits. In fact, that would make things worse from my standpoint. As it stands now the same DC discounts available now will no longer be available come January first. If the same exact discounts are offered thru the Visa card it is a slap in the face that says you must let Disney dictate your credit relationships if you want to be considered one of their most loyal and respected guests. That is a joke.

Here is how I see it. First off, while DC was readily available to everyone and anyone who was willing to spend the $39, the Visa card is NOT available to everyone and anyone who chooses to apply for the card. Secondly, getting the 'no fee' Visa card isn't going to save those who qualify the DC membership fee they used to pay. I have worked long and hard to establish my standing with the credit cards I currently hold. That relationship has resulted in lower interest rates than the Disney Visa is offering. If I carry a balance, the Disney Visa interest above what I'd pay on one of my other cards would certainly be more than $39 a year. Thirdly, applying to the DC in the past was very innocuous. Apply, pay your $39, and feel even more connected to the Magic. With the Visa it isn't so simple. As I have stated before, I won't trade out a lower rate card I currently hold for the opportunity to maybe "earn" an annual pass a year IF I spend well well over $30,000 a year on the Disney card. I am not about to hold another credit card I don't intend to use on the off chance they offer some discounts that aren't related to the amount of money charged to the card. Having unused credit cards with no balance still affects your credit rating. Banks look at your potential credit as well as the balances you currently have. As such, I won't get this card..........and that removes me just one step from the Magic and puts me one step further away from the 'club' of Disney fans I used to be a part of.

DC - available to Everyone, only costs you $39, and connects you to the Magic.

Visa - NOT available to everyone, potentially costs you more than $39 in increased interest if you carry a balance, keeps many people from having that connection to the Magic.

I don't see how the Visa can be viewed as a good thing.

As for the Visa not being a replacement for the DC, I don't see that it isn't. Sure, Disney hasn't kicked your teeth in with an official statement. However, too many news sources have reported that "Disney said.............". Sure, they could be wrong. However, if Disney had any other plans for another "club" or "frequent, loyal guest program" I am sure they would have made that known by now. It isn't like such a program is so innovative and difficult to implement that they wouldn't have had another option in place to replace the DC by this time. Hopefully backlash against the DC ending will make them reconsider new options once the club officially ends later this year.

PatriciaH
04-21-2003, 12:32 PM
I think Disney should bring back the Magic Kingdom Club. I loved those discounts! It was FREE for people who's businesses carried it too.

ghostwriter
04-21-2003, 12:33 PM
Still waiting for alll the great offers. I have had the card for a month and have not received and information on benefits or specail offers. So whats going on.

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 12:46 PM
I'll concede that DC was availible to anyone willing to pay the fee.

However, a lot of the sour grapes concerning the new Visa are from people whose credit will not allow them to get the card. This is not Disney's problem. Others,like yourself possibly, won't accept the higher interest rate. I have several cards,couldn't tell you what a single interest rate is because I never carry a balance, I won't pay a dime in interest. For those who use a card with a lower rate and carry a balance, then my opinion is that your yearly interest payments are probably far greater then any DC discounts you currantly receive, but that's your choice and none of my business. With all the various discount options out there besides DC- AAA,AP's,DVC, maybe others- how valueable are DC discounts anyway ? I'm a DC member basically for the AP discount which offsets the DC fee. If I put only $4000.00 on my Visa, then I'm $40.00 ahead of the game. Based on posts that compared the original MKC to DC, are we really losing that much ?

DisneyKidds
04-21-2003, 01:06 PM
This is not Disney's problem.
Oh, but it very much is. It may not be Disney's fault they don't qualify, but Disney has still shut them out by only giving them an option that requires credit aproval.
With all the various discount options out there besides DC- AAA,AP's,DVC, maybe others- how valueable are DC discounts anyway ?
There are two substantial discounts you can't get anywhere else. AP discounts, and 10% off at the Disney Store. Those are really the only discounts we use, and even the Visa card isn't replacing those. As far as AP's are concerned, it has always been a no brainer for us to get them. However, considering a lot of factors, I am thinking long and hard about whether we will renew in November. As for the Disney Store discount, we'll probably still shop there, but the discount did make us partial to spending just a wee bit more in the past. So, possibly no AP's and less spent at the Disney Store - is that the result Disney was looking for?

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 01:30 PM
The DVC membership also offers the 10% off at the Dis stores, but I'm not advocating a DVC purchase, only pointing out that it's availible. And as I've stated earlier, maybe with the expiration of DC, more discounts will be turned over to the Visa. Disney has said more discounts will be coming.

In this day and age, CC's are more or less a neccasary evil,(try renting a car without one). Since I'm going to have them anyway I'm going to pick the ones that will work best for me. Since I go to WDW 3-5 times a year and am a DVC member, the Dis Visa is a greater value to me then the DC.

ghostwriter: Have you set up on-line account access at the Visa website ? There are currantly a handful of offers listed. May not be compareable to DC, but it is at least a start for those Visa holders who aren't also DC members.

mikeymars
04-21-2003, 01:40 PM
>>a lot of the sour grapes concerning the new Visa are from people whose credit will not allow them to get the card.<<

I strongy, strongly disagree with the above.

First, many of those who have been turned down (including myself) have -- by normal criteria -- good credit. Both Fair Issac and Experian give me scores that put me will within the top 5% of American households.

The problem is Bank One is less interested in whether the VISA applicants have "good" credit and more interested in whether their proprietary 30 point scoring model predicts the applicant will be will be profitable.

Second -- and more importantly -- most of the "complaints" about the card here have to do with strategy behind the card, not whether on not someone got it.

The "bottom line" is the focus of the VISA card program: Or stated differently, it shows Disney now values the quick buck over the loyalty of long-term customers.

The anger you see here (so-called "sour grapes") is a reaction to that, specifically, the attempt by Disney to change the criteria that determine who the most valuable customers are.

How important your are to Disney now has NOTHING to do with whether you are a long term Disney Vacation Club member (as I am), whether you vist their properties often (as I do), whether you regularly visit their stores and purchase their merchandise (as I do). Instead, it is now based solely upon whether you have a high enough score of the proprietary credit card profitability review model used by a B- quality bank. And unless one meets that cut, they no longer receive preffered offers and treatment.

And if you think the noise level the long term loyalists are making about that is bad now, just wait.

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 01:47 PM
"The problem is Bank One is less interested in whether the VISA applicants have "good" credit and more interested in whether their proprietary 30 point scoring model predicts the applicant will be will be profitable. "

Based on your criteria, Bank 1 would have turned me down flat. I have not paid a dime in interest in 10 years or more. The bottom line is that I never would have heard of mikeymars had you not been turned down. You certainly weren't taking the high ground in protest against the Visa and end of DC by applying for it, as others have.

Maistre Gracey
04-21-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
"The problem is Bank One is less interested in whether the VISA applicants have "good" credit and more interested in whether their proprietary 30 point scoring model predicts the applicant will be will be profitable. "

Based on your criteria, Bank 1 would have turned me down flat. I have not paid a dime in interest in 10 years or more....
Same here. I have about five credit cards. I use two or three regularly, and the others hardly at all. All have high credit limits, and none have annual fees. The only time they are not paid in full, is during promotional 0.0% terms (I only take advantage when there is zero transaction fee).
In other words, outside of the merchant fee to the CC company, the CC company likely looses $ on me.
I received my Bank One/Disney Visa about 10 days after applying.

Golter
04-21-2003, 03:17 PM
I assure you that if you were turned down, you do not have spotless, perfect credit. The idea that bank one issues a card to those who will not use it responsibly is absurd. If you have managed your credit well, you will not have a problem getting a card. Pay your bills ontime and live within your means and you will not have any problems.

On a different note:
I bet I have the best use of my card so far......my wife's breast augmentation surgery scheduled for Wednesday was was put on it. I recieved bonus from my work, will pay off bill when I get it. My wife will look great and I earned reward points..HA HA.

Maistre Gracey
04-21-2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Golter
...I bet I have the best use of my card so far......my wife's breast augmentation surgery scheduled for Wednesday was was put on it. I recieved bonus from my work, will pay off bill when I get it. My wife will look great and I earned reward points..HA HA.
You deserve a golf clap, Golter..... :teeth:

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 03:23 PM
People are always posting trip pic's on this board, how about........

Golter
04-21-2003, 03:27 PM
that's a good one.

I'm almost certain moderator would not allow pics, but nice try.

mikeymars
04-21-2003, 03:28 PM
>>Based on your criteria, Bank 1 would have turned me down flat. I have not paid a dime in interest in 10 years or more.<<

Your presume carrying ongoing balances is the only criteria or primary for profitability.

It isn't - level of card use is also a major one, given the profits that come from merchant fees. Perhaps that's why I'm seeing some people on these boards who got turned down who all seemed to state or imply "I don't use my existing cards that much." Again, the Bank One model is proprietary, so I don't have every field and measurement attribute at my fingertips, but from what I'm hearing from knowledgable peers in the industry, it does put a good amount of weight into a history of regular card use.

Bottom line, short of seeing their formula, all we know is the Bank One voodoo for approval seems highly variable and is less tied to the financial quality of the applicant than other God-knows-what variables.

>>outside of the merchant fee to the CC company, the CC company likely looses $ on me<<

I think you're missing a critical point here, per my first paragraph. If you use some of your cards (which you said you did), trust me, you're profitable - the fixed carrying costs of an account are minimal; almost any regular use results in pure profit to the issuer.

>>The bottom line is that I never would have heard of mikeymars had you not been turned down.<<

Yes, but you're doing the "diminish 'em away as sour grapes" thing again by implying my sole "problem" was being turned down. That's unfair, anyone who has been paying attention here knows my concerns had to do with the manner in which I was treated during that tangent of the card implementation.

>>You certainly weren't taking the high ground in protest against the Visa and end of DC by applying for it, as others have.<<

I think what you meant to say here was "by not applying for it." If that's the case, I again disagree - taking a position as a "valuable customer" (one who is willing to write Disney Senior Management and get an immediate, personal response in which [/I] they agree to change policy)[/I] is strengthened based on having more product and service relationships, not fewer.

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 03:48 PM
>>You certainly weren't taking the high ground in protest against the Visa and end of DC by applying for it, as others have.<<

No,I think it's phrased right. You would be taking the high road by NOT applying. I'm saying you weren't taking it BY applying.

Whatever,grammer has never been a Dis Board requirement.

My point was that if Bank 1 had approved you,no letters would have been written and this thread would never have been posted. Based on posts on earlier threads from people who have been turned down for various reason- which you have refered to in this thread- why did you wait till you were rejected to start the campaign ?

DisneyKidds
04-21-2003, 05:41 PM
The DVC membership also offers the 10% off at the Dis stores
Thanks Vike.......now all I need is a way to get discounted AP's once DC is kaput and the pain won't be so bad. Eliminating DC and replacing it with the Visa is still a bad move IMHO.

ftwildernessguy
04-21-2003, 05:44 PM
I can't believe that mikeymars has generated this much discussion over this matter. Come on now, do you really expect us to believe that you would have taken issue with Bank One over a technicality in the letter if you had been accepted in the first place?

:mad:

Maistre Gracey
04-21-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by ftwildernessguy
I can't believe that mikeymars has generated this much discussion over this matter. Come on now, do you really expect us to believe that you would have taken issue with Bank One over a technicality in the letter if you had been accepted in the first place?

:mad:
Not sure about anyone else, but I am monitoring this thread in the hope that we get back to the more important discussion of breast augmentation....

ftwildernessguy
04-21-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Maistre Gracey
Not sure about anyone else, but I am monitoring this thread in the hope that we get back to the more important discussion of breast augmentation....


:bounce: :teeth:

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 06:20 PM
....just read a post on the DVC board about a DS CM stating the DVC discount will end at the end of the year. May just be rumor though.

Maistre Gracey: Did you find an automatic search function for these boards that scans for words like "breasts" and "augmentation" ? If so....can you send it to me :-)

BCVOwner2002
04-21-2003, 07:10 PM
Boys will be boys!!! And Bank One isn't the Disney Club!!!! Annmarie

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 07:26 PM
Well, yeah, I guess you're right, on both counts:-}~

mikeymars
04-21-2003, 07:41 PM
Not to mince over tangential detail, but you omitted the last part of your statement, which was:

>>by applying for it, as others have<<

Therefore, I stand by my my correction. By using the word "protest," what you clearly meant to say was "by not appyling for it," ergo, implying that others who are not happy with the program took the so-called "high road" (in terms of making a statement) by not applying.

>>I can't believe that mikeymars has generated this much discussion over this matter. <<

I'm surprised myself, but hey, no one is forcing anyone to get into this discussion!!;)

KNWVIKING
04-21-2003, 07:49 PM
Whats this thread got to do with nude sunbathing ?

mikeymars
04-22-2003, 08:53 AM
>>I assure you that if you were turned down, you do not have spotless, perfect credit.<<

Uh, help us out here, Golter: according to the models of both Fair Issac and Experian, I have a credit score that puts me within the top 5% of all American households. Is that "perfect?" No, but damn close. So what is you point, Golter? Are you saying that Bank One won't give cards to people who have anything other than absolutely perfect scores?

Go ahead and explain, Golter. We're waiting.

>The idea that bank one issues a card to those who will not use it responsibly is absurd.<<

You are impyling that everyone who has been turned down by Bank One is some sort of irresponsible financial loser. That's an unsupported personal insult to me and many of the othere who have been turned down.

>>If you have managed your credit well<<

Which according to the experts I have.

>>you will not have a problem getting a card.<<

Not when it comes to Bank One. Their proprietary scoring "model" doesn't care about the fact I have a good credit history.

>>Pay your bills ontime and live within your means and you will not have any problems.<<

I've done both, and yet Bank One turned me down.

Again, you "assured" us you're correct, so please explain why that happened.

mikeymars
04-22-2003, 10:52 AM
And just a little more for Golter to chew on, from a previous post on this thread:

"Bank One is one of the worst (IMHO) credit card companies out there and I'm really surprised Disney partnered with them. They're one step above Household Finance or Providian in financial credit services. I wrote a post about this awhile back. I'm a mortgage broker and this has already hurt a couple of people who have came to me for home loans. Disney is marketing this thing as a Magic Kingdom Club Card or The DIsney Club replacement and it is not....it IS a credit card from a less than mid-range lender. Bank One does not use the typical credit scores or "FICO" scores that everyone knows about. They use their own internal credit scoring system that is unknown and is made up of 30 point system. They do not release what goes into the 30 points.

Obviously, mickeymars, you didn't have a high enough score with their system but, you can take solace in the fact that it probably didn't have anyhing to do with how long you have had credit or how you have paid all of your bills."

Golter
04-22-2003, 01:03 PM
Read the post. It says "The idea that bank one issues a card to those who will not use it responsibly is absurd." It says "not"use it responsibly. The concept of people being turned down because they use their credit too wisely is a joke. Bank One makes money even if you use your card and pay it off in full each month. They lose money on those who do not pay their bills and abuse the card.

Yes, their are some individuals that they make more money on than others, but they still make money. Their scoring model might be different but is still has to do with creditworthiness, its the law.

If you'd like, email me your name and social security number, I can run your credit, we'll go over it line by line and I'll show why you've been declined. If you have not had late/slow pays, collection items,bankruptcy, maxed out or almost maxed out cards, or a high/low volume of debt to available credit....I'll eat crow and post in big letters I WAS WRONG AND WILL NOT ASSUME TO KNOW WHAT IT IS I'M TALKING ABOUT EVER AGAIN... I will preface each quote with a disclaimer that I am a very unreliable source.

Sarangel
04-22-2003, 01:10 PM
Gang... This has gone on long enough. Play nice or I'll close the thread.

Sarangel

rtkane
04-22-2003, 01:14 PM
Welcome to the happiest thread on Earth. Can you feel the love? Can you???

disneybud
04-22-2003, 02:01 PM
I just read this whole thread and I just am dying to know/see if he ends up getting the card!!:)

mikeymars
04-22-2003, 02:07 PM
Sarangel has been heard; no intent here to turn this into a battle (people can disagree and still be polite).

As for the offer to "run my credit," thanks, but already been there, done that. Subsequent to the decline by Bank One, in addition to reviewing both my Equifax and Trans Union credit reports, I've gone through the "credit assessment" process in beyond ugly detail with two different professional lending experts (to try to find a reason -- ANY reason, much less a "good" one -- why I was turned down). Both came up pretty much empty (and to quote one, "you're not the first person to ask me to try and make sense out of that #^%@&* Bank One model ".

Interestingly, I sent Bank One a letter back on March 26 asking them to give me details on exactly why their sophisticated, highly scientific multivariate model credit assessment model decided to decline my application. As of today -- almost four weeks later -- still no response.

And how loudly that silence speaks!!!

Minniemomof4
04-22-2003, 02:24 PM
Could someone who received the platinum card tell me what types of perks it offers over my regular "red" card? I'm just curious!

raidermatt
04-22-2003, 02:38 PM
I missed some pieces of this thread, so please forgive me if this has already been discussed...

BankOne is required by law to provide a written explanation to any customer they turn down for credit.

Have they done so in this case?

rtkane
04-22-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Minniemomof4
Could someone who received the platinum card tell me what types of perks it offers over my regular "red" card? I'm just curious!

Are you sure you only have a "red" card? Mine is platinum but the only indication of that is on the back where it says "VISA PLATINUM" in thin letters across from the BankOne logo. Also, your credit limit will give you clue too.. I think Platinum cards start at $5k, although I'm sure someone within this thread will probably be able to confirm or deny that.

mikeymars
04-22-2003, 02:53 PM
>>I just am dying to know/see if he ends up getting the card!!<<

Again, that was at best a secondary agenda when I wrote Disney and Bank One (never asked either to "give me "a second look"); my primary focus was to communicate my discontent at how the program was being run.

That stated, as mentioned in my first post, something "must have happened" when my second letter got to Disney and Bank One (per the certified mail return reciepts, that was on Monday 4/14).

For when I came onto these boards on 4/17, learned of the "application update' phone number and out of curiousity called it, I got that "your application is under review" message. That was surprising given I'd already been delcined a month earlier (and had NOT subsequently re-applied).

Yesterday, I called again, got the same message and subsequently hit "0" to get to one of the so-called "advisors" (which is code for First USA phone staff out in the middle of South Dakota).

I explained to her (politely) my confusion over my status (ergo, I applied back in February, got a declination letter in mid March, then found in mid April that the update system was saying my application was "still" under review). She confirmed that "under review" message wasn't some system fluke, and that my application was indeed "active and in process."

I even asked her if that possibly just meant someone was reviewing my app to respond to my 3/26 letter asking for more information on why I ws declined, and she said "no - they don't make apps active to do that; your app is active, and that status only shows up if you are actually being considered for a card."

So, something apparently got Bank One to raise my file from the ashes, albeit exactly what is unclear (again, I suspect -- strongly suspect -- it was an unanticipated side effect of the second letter I sent to Disney and copied Bank One on, but have no proof of that).

Whatever, the outcome of this "re-look" is still unclear: discussion on other threads here has shown that "your app is under review" message doesn't give one any sense of which way the wind is blowing.

Or stated differently, jury still out, more to come.

mikeymars
04-22-2003, 03:07 PM
>>BankOne is required by law to provide a written explanation to any customer they turn down for credit.

Have they done so in this case?<<

Bank One -- like many credit card issuers -- complies with that law by doing the absolute bare minimum, which is to put in a single line in the decline form letter, which in essence is very generic code for why one was declined.

In my case, the ENTIRE explanation they provided was four -- yes, four -- words: "utilization of bankcard credit." Given my very high credit score, history of current payments, low balances. etc., it wasn't clear at all what that brief generic blurb was supposed to mean (not using credit enough? having too much? too little?)

So on 3/26 -- almost four weeks ago -- I wrote them asking for a more substantive, detailed explanation of why I was declined (as is my right under the law).

As of today, they have still not responded.

So, as I type this, the other document I have up on word right now is a formal complaint letter to the FTC about Bank One.

Like I said earlier, this is FAR from over.

Dean
04-22-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Minniemomof4
Could someone who received the platinum card tell me what types of perks it offers over my regular "red" card? I'm just curious! I don't know that there's any difference. Since my paperwork says "guide to Visa Platinum Benefits", I just assume they were all Platinum and my is red just like the application looks and what's been described on the BBS.

ftwildernessguy
04-22-2003, 03:19 PM
God, I hope he gets the card soon so he can get on with his life!

:rolleyes:

DanG
04-22-2003, 04:05 PM
Is this Rumors, News, or the new Emote board?

Cris
04-22-2003, 04:10 PM
get a hobby already!!!

All Aboard
04-22-2003, 04:45 PM
How much value is added to this discussion by folks offering summary advice to the poster such as "getting a life" or "getting a hobby?" I'd say, if you have nothing of real substance to add, why even bother joining this discussion. Or, would that be my calling into question the use of your OWN time?

Grumbo
04-22-2003, 07:09 PM
Just spent good part of an hour going through this thread :)
As was earlier said I will be very interested to see whether or not mikeymars gets the card. (Yes mikey I know that wasn't the purpose of the complaint)
I have to admit though having read threads on other forums within the Disboards about how excited folks were to get this card astounded me. When they found out the card said something about Day one and were going to get a pin!!! It was like the second coming!! :)
Its a #)($)_@#$ credit card with the silhouette of a rodent on it. BIG DEAL!!!
Good luck mikey.
Cheers,
Grumbo

crusader
04-22-2003, 10:08 PM
When they found out the card said something about Day one and were going to get a pin!!! It was like the second coming!!Its a #)($)_@#$ credit card with the silhouette of a rodent on it. BIG DEAL!!!


Hilarious! Not to mention the fact that you just willingly gave over all of your personal information for some trinket.

When I recieved the application in the mail I had to toss it. To be forced to use a credit card instead of the DC in order to earn some reward at disney is vile.

You cannot ignore the fact that the company has just replaced something anyone could purchase with something you need your credit history to secure. Anyone who signs on is allowing themselves to be profiled, segregated and indirectly fomenting discrimination on the part of this company.

How much value is added to this discussion by folks offering summary advice to the poster such as "getting a life" or "getting a hobby?" I'd say, if you have nothing of real substance to add, why even bother joining this discussion.

Well said. This is an open forum with a vast array of viewpoints equally deserving of respect.

Minniemomof4
04-23-2003, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the help. You are right, it says platinum visa right on the back of my card! Sorry for my stupidity!!!

freediverdude
04-23-2003, 08:53 AM
Well, I've been thinking a lot about this issue, and I think I know what's wrong with all of this. The problem with the whole program is that it has been marketed incorrectly. The Disney Platinum Visa card by Bank One really is a fairly high-end, exclusive-type credit card, geared toward people with fairly high incomes and a credit report in the top few percent. If Disney and Bank One knew that the credit card was going to be like that, it was incorrect to have a mass marketing campaign, with commercials like, "Come join the magic with Disney Visa!" showing a regular family meeting Mickey in Fantasyland on television, and giving out applications to every customer in the stores. This card -the way it is- should have been targeted towards the people who would have been good candidates for approval, in a much more discreet and upscale marketing program, such as a commercial showing a limo driving up to the Grand Floridian, showing a fairly well off couple going to Disney in style and gaining Disney dollars with the card, and have applications available in the deluxe resorts and more expensive gift shops. The card program would have started out much slower, yes, but would have had a much higher approval rate, and would have been clearer to most people whether they should apply or not. In this way they could have continued in the tradition of the Amex program, just with a different company, and decided whether or not they wanted to keep the Disney Club as a separate issue, and not have the confusion as to whether the visa was a replacement for that. I'm not saying all this because I'm a snob and have the card or something, because I myself was declined. But after getting over the initial insult of it, I got to thinking about it, and I don't think most people should have been encouraged to apply for this card, because at least in Bank One's eyes, it wasn't really meant for the average family or person who has good credit. It's meant as a large credit limit, exclusive card, for someone with pretty much perfect credit and a high income. And I think a mistake was made with marketing it towards everyone. And since it looks like Disney probably did the marketing, this may be Disney's fault, or at least there was a miscommunication between Disney and Bank One on what exactly the card was supposed to be. It will be interesting to see how they handle this, as I'm sure they probably do have some angry people on their hands.

rtkane
04-23-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by freediverdude
This card -the way it is- should have been targeted towards the people who would have been good candidates for approval, in a much more discreet and upscale marketing program, such as a commercial showing a limo driving up to the Grand Floridian, showing a fairly well off couple going to Disney in style and gaining Disney dollars with the card, and have applications available in the deluxe resorts and more expensive gift shops.

Just a humorous observation: Why would someone taking a limo to GF care about the rewards dollars? We bought into DVC with our Disney Card and only got 210 reward dollars for a $21,000 purchase... hardly worth the effort. We only got the card because we planned on using the 6 month window of 0% interest to pay off DVC while earning interest on the $21k in the bank. We paid it off early, though, after realizing that having that $21k on a credit card would adversely affect our credit rating. Since we're moving soon, I didn't want that showing up when we went to close on the mortgage.

rtkane
04-23-2003, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Minniemomof4
Thanks for the help. You are right, it says platinum visa right on the back of my card! Sorry for my stupidity!!!

No need to apologize... the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked :)

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 09:49 AM
" We bought into DVC with our Disney Card and only got 210 reward dollars for a $21,000 purchase... hardly worth the effort. "

What effort ? DVC asks "How will you be paying ?" you say "Here's my CC". BA BING, you just got $210.00 to spend at Disney. Is there an earier way to get $210.00 spending money ?

rtkane
04-23-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
What effort ? DVC asks "How will you be paying ?" you say "Here's my CC". BA BING, you just got $210.00 to spend at Disney. Is there an earier way to get $210.00 spending money ?
Maybe I should have been more clear... it was hardly worth the effort to apply for the card and wait til we got it to close on our DVC purchase for a card that gives you $1 for each $100 that you spend. As I said, we specifically got it to purchase our DVC interest--$210 wasn't much of a reward (although I will agree that it's better than nothing). The "effort" was complicated by the fact that we're building a house and will close on our mortgage based on credit score alone (no asset/income verification) and checking credit scores to ensure that nothing would change drastically by getting this card was a pain. Didn't feel the need to elaborate in the original post. :)

Oh.. and by the way... the $210 sounded more like "CHA CHING". ;)

mikeymars
04-23-2003, 10:24 AM
>>I'm sure they probably do have some angry people on their hands.<<

As Disney management is learning the hard way, this is an understatement!

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 10:33 AM
You're right. I must still have that Swan/Dolphine balcony thread on my mind.

Chadm
04-23-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by mikeymars
O.K., not to cram a normally positive board with ranting horror stories, but I CAN'T restrain myself this time. I HAVE to share my negative recent experience with this so-called "relationship management" program. Here goes:

Saturday, Feb. 22: apply for new Disney/Bank One VISA through on-line application at Disney Club site (I'm a DVC member, but the Disney Club had an application link up first).

Tuesday, March 18: receive declination letter from by Bank One, which is dated 3/4. Nowhere does the letter acknowledge I was applying for the Disney Platinum Visa Card. Notably, the first line says “Thank you for your interest in our (extra blank space) Visa Platinum credit card program.”

It would appear that extra blank space is “residue” of a computer program designed to insert some vernacular (ergo, the marketing partners’ name) in front of the word “Visa.” However, Bank One declined to insert that name and “missed” the blank space, sending out a standard, plain vanilla declination letter (albeit a poorly proofread one which is obviously designed to name a sponsor/marketing affiliate).

Isn't clear if that obvious omission is intentional. Even if it isn’t, it leaves the Bank One fulfillment of the VISA initiative looking a wee bit rushed and sloppy (doesn’t Disney review how marketing partners communicate to its clients?) If it was intentional, the result is to imply Disney doesn’t want its good name sullied by being associated with declinations, which if the case is transparent, cowardly and insulting.

Wednesday, March 26: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about this omission to Tosh Komime, head of Customer Relationship Management at Disney. Copy Mr. Andrew Mooney, President, DISNEY CONSUMER PRODUCTS WORLDWIDE, Mr. Steve Wadsworth, President, WALT DISNEY INTERNET GROUP, and BANK ONE Card Services.

Tuesday, April 8: over a MONTH after being declined by Bank One, I receive a fancy direct mail promotion piece from them and Disney inviting me to APPLY for the card. Of course, this package immediately raised the issue of “why are these firms mocking me, by sending an invitation to apply when they’ve ALREADY turned me down?!?!”

It only took a few seconds to answer that annoying question. Presumably, some unit at Disney provided Bank One with a file of existing Disney clientele (likely the obvious suspects such as members of the Disney Club, the Vacation Club, etc.) to use for this promotion. However, apparently no one at Bank One – which loves to present itself as one of the most sophisticated credit card marketers in the country, one that presumably “wrote the book” on database management – bothered to perform the basic, “direct mail 101” function of scrubbing the file to remove the names of Disney customers who had already applied, particularly those who had been turned down.

Given the presumed agenda of this initiative is to deepen relationships with highly profitable customers (ERGO, DVC-ers LIKE ME), I was most confused about why this was allowed to happen. Does Disney Management care about how letters that go out with their signatures are managed? Or even more to the point, did anyone at either of the marketing partners ever bother to consider how a Disney customer would feel in the resulting scenario?

Offended and unimpressed might be places to start.

Thursday, April 10: send certified mail return reciept letter complaining about the above in polite but gory detail to Dinah Keefe, Vice President Disney Relationship Management. Copy Disney President Iger, as well as Retail President Mooney, On-Line Preesdient Wadsworth, CRM-"guru" Komime and Carter Warren, head of Card Services marketing at Bank One.

Wednesday, April 16: receive an eight sentence long, anonymously authored and poorly written letter (dated April 11) from "The Disney Rewards Program," which appears to be an attempt to respond to the concerns I expressed in my letter to Komime three weeks earlier.

The one-sentence response it provides to my concern -- which took Disney over two weeks to draft -- is as follows: “Due to the financial nature of a credit decline letter, it is not necessary to include the Disney name.”

A review of that this morning by my council of the Federal Truth in Lending Act shows that to be a tangential statement of policy, NOT of law. Or stated differently, the Disney letter DID'NT answer my real question: why did Disney and Bank One decide that the so-called “financial nature” of a declination letter made it so “unnecessary” to include the Disney name?

Their response also ignored another issue I raised, that being the typo in the decline letter I received, which “gave away’ the fact it was obviously designed to include the name of a marketing affiliate.

All those omissions are noteworthy - and disappointing. They suggest neither Disney nor Bank One is choosing to be open with a long term, valuable Disney Customer about concerns he raised.

Thursday, April 17: while drafting a response to the latest Disney missive, I happen to check these boards and find scores of posts referring to a phone number (888-338-2586) one can choose to check the status of their Disney Bank One VISA application.

Out of curiosity, I call, and as requested punch in my social security number. Lo and behold, what comes back? The following: "“your application is UNDER REVIEW, you will be notified in writing in 7-10 days of our decision, this is the most CURRENT information regarding the status of your application.”

Practially falling out of my chair (after all, my application was already DECLINED by Bank One over a month earlier, confirmed IN WRITING, but now their "MOST CURRENT" info is saying it is "UNDER REVIEW"). I subsequently reached an “advisor” and asked her to clarify my status. She fusses with her keyboard for about 30 seconds and says she “can't access the system right now because they’re updating the status, call back tomorrow."

I can't wait to hear the story tomorrow WHEN I DO.

More to come - STAY POSTED!!!!! This is FAR from over.

Wow, after reading the original post, I couldn't bring myself to read the 9 million replies to this post, so sorry if this has been said already.

If being denied for a credit card in a way you didn't quite like prompted you to write this lengthy rant and several letters to Disney and Bank One executives, you may very well be the most hyper-sensitive person I have come across in a long time. I'd hate to see how you'd respond if something truly bad actually happened.

Get over it. It's a credit denial. It's really not a very good deal, anyway. You're not missing out on much.

Mickmse2002
04-23-2003, 12:16 PM
I am still amazed by the number of people who bash this credit card. It is a credit card folks, nothing more, nothing less. By using this card, if you so choose, you get 1% back in the form of limited use coupons. If you like to use credit cards for the sake of convenience, and pay off your balance each month thus avoiding interest charges, then the 1% back is a good deal. I for one, am very pleased with the idea of receiving these coupons to actually use them at WDW. I use to have a Northwest Airlines Visa and accumulated lots of miles. The problem was never actually being able to use them in a reasonable manner.

DisneyKidds
04-23-2003, 12:29 PM
It is a credit card folks, nothing more, nothing less.
Exactly.................and Disney is capable of doing much better than this - and should have.

mikeymars
04-23-2003, 02:05 PM
>>you may very well be the most hyper-sensitive person I have come across in a long time. <<

Or someone who holds principals, who refuses to just let the companies he gives business get away with ingoring them.

The comment quoted above is a textbook example of ignorance of a critical fact: consumer satisfaction with the quality of service in this country continues to fall (and I have years of professional experience in research that proves that beyond any debate).

And why does it continue to fall? the answer is simple: too many people just bend over and accept it.

Well, not me , no matter how much the apologists for insulting treatment, bad implemenation and poor quality try to demonize me for going after parties that deliver it. :smooth:

Walt's Frozen Head
04-23-2003, 03:18 PM
do you really expect us to believe that you would have taken issue with Bank One over a technicality in the letter if you had been accepted in the first place? you may very well be the most hyper-sensitive person I have come across in a long time

Say, here's an idea: I agree with everything mikeymars has said about BankOne in general and the Disney Credit Card in particular... and I was _not_ turned down for that card.

If you aren't able to get past the fact that mikeymars was turned down when considering the very real issues this thread has raised, then you can direct all valid responses to me, instead... that way we can discuss the topic, rather than editorializing on someone else's life.

So how about it? Y'all got anything of value to add, or you want to go the snide personal comments direction? Choose the weapon and feel free to take the first shot.

-WFH

PS: Sorry for hijacking, mikeymars... but I just know these folks have a cornucopia of valuable, on-topic information to offer the group, if you weren't so obviously just squeaky-wheeling to get your app approved. It's not all about you, man... ;)

DisneyKidds
04-23-2003, 03:29 PM
So how about it? Y'all got anything of value to add, or you want to go the snide personal comments direction? Choose the weapon and feel free to take the first shot.
I know I'm on your list, but you get 'em Mr. Head! People can try and turn this into a sour grapes issue, and I'd probably bet that mikeymars wouldn't have raised the issue if he had been approved, but that doesn't change the fact that he raises some very good issues that get right to the heart of Disney's performance when it comes to customer relations. Too many people have weighed in that they feel the whole Visa thing was a bad move - people who were approved, denied, and chose not to apply. Disney has handled not only the administration of this card poorly, but made a poor decision to have it be the "new and exciting way for people to be a part of the Magic".

crusader
04-23-2003, 03:54 PM
but I just know these folks have a cornucopia of valuable, on-topic information to offer the group,

Really.

I was _not_ turned down for that card.

Riddle me this mr. freeze? What kind of a car 4 candidate carries the disney credit card ?

Maistre Gracey
04-23-2003, 04:07 PM
The only real complaint I got out of the original post was that the Disney logo was not on the denial letterhead. What did I miss?

PS- I still get pre-approved stuff at my home. The problem is that it is addressed to my father, who is dead and has never lived with me.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-23-2003, 04:14 PM
Riddle me this mr. freeze? What kind of a car 4 candidate carries the disney credit card ?

Are we discussing the Disney Visa card or playing "disqualify opinions and evidence that disagree with my own?"

Again, your choice. If you want to go with Option 1, be my guest with the floor, I'm eager to hear. If you're sticking with Option 2, I concede: as far as I can tell, you should be named World Grand Champion of "disqualify opinions and evidence that disagree with my own."

-WFH

Walt's Frozen Head
04-23-2003, 04:20 PM
The only real complaint I got out of the original post was that the Disney logo was not on the denial letterhead. What did I miss
This was symbolic and/or symptomatic of Disney turning their back on determining who their own "best customers" are.

By slowly morphing the MKC into the Disney Club into the Disney Visa, the program has become less about rewarding certain groups of important customers (first, workers for Disney's partners, later, Disneyites rabid enough to pay for the priviledge) and more about increasing Disney's profit margin.

Leaving "Disney" off a credit rejection form wasn't a Capital Offense, it was just a Straw That Broke Some Camel's Back.

-WFH

crusader
04-23-2003, 04:30 PM
Again, your choice. If you want to go with Option 1, be my guest with the floor, I'm eager to hear.

You probably missed it - buried somewhere on pg 9. I happen to agree with those that feel the card is poorly marketed and hardly a viable replacement for something which used to be available to everyone.


Are we discussing the Disney Visa card or playing "disqualify opinions and evidence that disagree with my own?"

No disqualification here - just curious.

rtkane
04-23-2003, 04:32 PM
Out of curiosity, what's a "car 4 candidate"?

Maistre Gracey
04-23-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Walt's Frozen Head
This was symbolic and/or symptomatic of Disney turning their back on determining who their own "best customers" are.

By slowly morphing the MKC into the Disney Club into the Disney Visa, the program has become less about rewarding certain groups of important customers (first, workers for Disney's partners, later, Disneyites rabid enough to pay for the priviledge) and more about increasing Disney's profit margin.

Leaving "Disney" off a credit rejection form wasn't a Capital Offense, it was just a Straw That Broke Some Camel's Back.

-WFH Okay, but I think it is a stretch to say: Because Bank One forgot the Disney logo, Disney is turning their back on loyal customers. -Just my opinion.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-23-2003, 04:50 PM
I happen to agree with those that feel the card is poorly marketed and hardly a viable replacement for something which used to be available to everyone.
Why the 'tude in responding to my posts, if you agree with me on this?

I'm stepping up to the plate and offering myself as an "opposite chair" for those who disagree with mikeymars' valid points but can't stick to the topic when dealing with someone who was turned down for the card... are you such a person or not?

Is this thing on?

-WFH

Walt's Frozen Head
04-23-2003, 05:00 PM
Okay, but I think it is a stretch to say: Because Bank One forgot the Disney logo, Disney is turning their back on loyal customers. -Just my opinion.

One that mirrors my own... it just seemed to me that detail happened to be a focal point at the moment he went over the edge, and not the sum of the perceived problem.

-WFH

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 05:27 PM
This thread has twisted and turned into some idealogical debate over Disney loyalty and the dissatisfaction some have with the Disney Visa program. Now we have WFH coming in to defend mikeymars against insults. What a waste of time this thread has become. Mikey obviously had no problem with Disney's new program or with Bank One because he applied for the Card.But he gets rejected. Now he blames Disney for partnering with a company like Bank One. I don't know much about Bank One except that in 2001 they made 2.6 BILLION and in 2002 they made 3.3 BILLION dollars. Maybe they did this be being cautious with who they lend money to. Maybe I should buy their stock. Now did Disney pick Bank One because it starts with the letter B and it was first on the list ? I doubt it. They probably researched various companies, short listed the best ones, then negotiated the best deal they could make for themselves. Anyone have a problem with that ? Why did Disney chose a Platinum level card ? Don't know. Are they targeting the wrong customers ? Don't know. Could they offer better benifits ? Of course, we all want more. But this isn't why mikey posted. He posted because he got rejected. I find it odd that a person who states he was rejected because he doesn't use the credit cards he has would apply for one history says he won't use, then make it his mission in life to find out why the name Disney didn't appear on his rejection notice.

Maistre Gracey
04-23-2003, 05:37 PM
Very well said, KNWVIKING.

crusader
04-23-2003, 05:54 PM
Why the 'tude in responding to my posts, if you agree with me on this?

Poor attempt at humor. Sorry. But I would like to debate that riddle at a later time.

But this isn't why mikey posted. He posted because he got rejected.

It shouldn't matter what his reasons were for posting. He has a right to this forum and shouldn't be lynched because of his viewpoint regarding the way he was declined. Who are we to judge his position?

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 05:59 PM
at least not by me. And he can post about any topic he wants but he better get accustomed to having others reject his opinions. My point is that this thread is being blown into some "greater cause" crusade when all it really is about is credit card rejection.

Chadm
04-23-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Walt's Frozen Head
So how about it? Y'all got anything of value to add, or you want to go the snide personal comments direction? Choose the weapon and feel free to take the first shot.

I'll stand by my comments about hyper-sensitivity. Basically, this person received a denial letter and didn't like the fact that it was a form letter with a blank space where "Disney" should have been.

This prompted a 21 paragraph rant containing, among other things, 2 months worth of chronicles. Additionally, it prompted 9 certified letters (or cc's of said letters) to Disney and Bank One executives, 2 phone calls and, I quote, "This is FAR from over."

If that's not being hyper-sensitive and overreacting, then I've never seen such things.

Remember, I only read the original post (and a few that followed mine this morning) and not the 11 pages worth of replies, so I am not being suckered into some philosophical debate about the diminished magic of Disney. This is strictly a reaction to the original post.

Chadm
04-23-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
at least not by me. And he can post about any topic he wants but he better get accustomed to having others reject his opinions. My point is that this thread is being blown into some "greater cause" crusade when all it really is about is credit card rejection.

Exactly. Credit card rejection and the most severe overreaction I've seen in quite awhile.

rtkane
04-23-2003, 07:30 PM
I think one of the questions to ask is whether or not the reaction would have been the same had the letter said "Congratulations! Here's your new _________ BankOne Platinum Visa Card" where there obviously would have been the same blank space where the word "Disney" should have been. Since that seems to be what started this whole thread, I would be interested in seeing the answer. I have a feeling that it would have been a secondary thought ("Oh look Jane, they left off Disney--that's strange") and that letter would've quickly gone in the trash as soon as the card went into his wallet. Of course, since I don't know Mikeymars, this is only my opinion, which I'm entitled to before we go down that road. Also, Disney has the right to eliminate any programs that they want and decide what is the best course of action for them--if you don't like the programs that they've made available to you, vote with your dollars by not spending them with Disney.

I understand the issues regarding their decision to eliminate Disney Club and think that its a shame, but again, they can frankly do whatever they want--whether or not they decide to instate or eliminate a program is their choice, and I would bet that there was some serious thought and analysis that went into their decision... if someone doesn't think Disney factored in the repurcussions of lost revenue from disgruntled "rejectees" I'd bet my left arm that they'd be wrong. How many people do you think will boycott Disney because they didn't get a credit card? Relatively few, and the revenue they'll make on everyone else who has the card will more than make up for that. Just some thoughts...

raidermatt
04-23-2003, 07:32 PM
They probably researched various companies, short listed the best ones, then negotiated the best deal they could make for themselves. Anyone have a problem with that ? As usual, the answer all boils down to how you define "best", and if you really believe Disney's decision making process is in synch with what is in the best long term interests of the Walt Disney Company.

If you accept that Disney executive management truly undertands what is in the best long term interests of the company, and believe that they have those long term interests as their goal, then I suppose your answer would be "No, I don't have a problem with that."

However, if other Disney decisions have left you with the impression that managment might not really understand what is in the best long term interests of the company, or that maybe they are more concerned with short term interests, then your answer could be "Yes, I do have a problem with that."

Further, if you look with your own eyes at what the MKC to DC to Disney Visa transformation means to Disney customers, and don't believe it is in the best long term interests of the company, your answer would most certainly be "Yes, I do have a problem with that!"

raidermatt
04-23-2003, 07:37 PM
I have a feeling that it would have been a secondary thought ("Oh look Jane, they left off Disney--that's strange") and that letter would've quickly gone in the trash as soon as the card went into his wallet.
That's pretty clear, since the implied motive of not wanting Disney's name associated with a rejection would not apply. That hypothetical doesn't prove the implied motive is not a real one, however.

if someone doesn't think Disney factored in the repurcussions of lost revenue from disgruntled "rejectees" I'd bet my left arm that they'd be wrong. The question isn't so much "did they consider it", but "did they correctly consider it". And more to the point, did they also consider all of the other issues besides verifiable lost revenue in the next quarter.

Their recent track record on such decisions is not exactly sparkling.

crusader
04-23-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by rtkane
Out of curiosity, what's a "car 4 candidate"?

sorry - just caught this now.

there is a thread at the top of the rumors and news board titled "carpools defined" which should provide some assistance.

you're right - the decision reeks of money. I still say it causes segregation and is discriminatory in that it is not available to all fans and forces disclosure of personal information to obtain. This adversely affects those who have a sincere dedication to the place and are being turned down.

Dean
04-23-2003, 08:06 PM
I've been know to go off on an issue myself at times and it's certainly one's right to do so in this case. Seems silly to me to put so much emotion, cost and effort into it but that's his choice.

Whether Disney made the "best" decision in chosing a company to associate with for this CC remains to be seen and we may never know. I'm not sure I'd call any of the national credit card companies that would produce this type of product as people I'd want to work for. Marriott uses the same company and I've had no problems with them from a consumer standpoint. I'm certain that Disney looked at the possibilities, took financial solvency issues into account and asked for bids from a few. They then chose the one they thought was best for THEIR needs. Will it work out good for Disney, time will tell and we may never know. We also don't know how it'll work out for the rest of us.

I'm still not convinced that Disney meant this CC as a replacement for the DC. The fact it's not available to everyone is unfortunate but not a requirement. I'm also not convinced that Bank One is turning down people that have truly good credit (to include the income to pay if they max it) just because of the model. Others, namely the OP, seem convinced they are. He seems to have more knowledge about it than many of us but unless I see an article or the like that states the same though, I will remain unconvinced. Show it to me in a newspaper or journal that seems credible and maybe I'll concede that issue, until then, not.

The facts in this thread are very simple. The OP got rejected for a CC and got a poorly worded for letter of rejection and a likewise poorly thought out initial response from Disney. The only other issue is that some people got turned down that reportedly have good credit. Does this reflect on Disney, sure, but not nearly to the degree some would say or imply. My sole reason for applying was to have access to possible discounts as I have plenty of CCs already. I didn't need it and could have lived without it but decided to get it. i don't have any plans that would involve a major credit issue like buying a new house and will have no debts come 3 years with the only one now being my house payment. I use my 2 main CC a lot (Marriott and Delta AMEX) and pay them off every month. I will not use the new CC for most things but did for the DCL cruise to try to get the $50 credit offered.

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 08:29 PM
"However, if other Disney decisions have left you with the impression that managment might not really understand what is in the best long term interests of the company, or that maybe they are more concerned with short term interests, then your answer could be "Yes, I do have a problem with that."

Further, if you look with your own eyes at what the MKC to DC to Disney Visa transformation means to Disney customers, and don't believe it is in the best long term interests of the company, your answer would most certainly be "Yes, I do have a problem with that!"


I could be wrong, but I'm interpreting your comment to mean that you have a problem with Bank One if it was somehow related to the diminished benifits of MKC- DC- Rewards Visa. If so,I disagree. I'm fairly certain Disney selected Bank One for financial reason, which I have no problem with.

As for the Rewards portion of my post, that is solely Disney's responsibility and has nothing to do with Bank One. Could Disney offer more absolutely. Should they have ended DC, no. Will the new Visa offer better rewards later,after DC ends, maybe.

Dean
04-23-2003, 09:09 PM
KNWVIKING, it may or may not be in the best interest of Disney to do this or the specific choices they made. They're certainly in a better situation than I to make those choices. I guess my point in this area was that it was their decision to make and that I didn't see Bank One any worse than other similar companies.

As for the MKC, DC etc transformation. I'm not sure what you mean. If you are saying Disney will lose out because of the lost discounts and therefore less total dollars spent, maybe. If you saying Disney owed it to customers to provide a product available to everyone, I would somewhat disagree. I would have preferred them continue the MKCC. I would like to see more benefits with the DVC membership. I never joined the DC as the value wasn't there for us.

raidermatt
04-23-2003, 09:14 PM
I could be wrong, but I'm interpreting your comment to mean that you have a problem with Bank One if it was somehow related to the diminished benifits of MKC- DC- Rewards Visa. If so,I disagree. I'm fairly certain Disney selected Bank One for financial reason, which I have no problem with. I'm fairly certain they selected Bank One for "A" financial reason, just as they cut EE and bought Fox Family for a financial reason. However, I am not certain they selected Bank One for the RIGHT financial reasons.

Beyond that, I'm not certain the introduction of this program, coupled with the cancelling of the DC, was done for the right financial reasons.

Maistre Gracey
04-23-2003, 09:15 PM
Instaed of th Bank One/Disney card being a replacement for DC, isn't it possible it was a replacement for AMEX?

raidermatt
04-23-2003, 09:25 PM
Instaed of th Bank One/Disney card being a replacement for DC, isn't it possible it was a replacement for AMEX? It's a replacement for both.

Though I'm not sure Disney ever stated it, it is clearly a replacement for the AMEX White Glove Treatment, as it is one credit card company for another. The merits of that trade for guests are debateable.

However, Disney themselves referred to the Visa as a replacement for the DC, doing so in their announcement regarding the cancellation of DC.

KNWVIKING
04-23-2003, 09:27 PM
"As for the MKC, DC etc transformation. I'm not sure what you mean. If you are saying Disney will lose out because of the lost discounts and therefore less total dollars spent, maybe. If you saying Disney owed it to customers to provide a product available to everyone, I would somewhat disagree. I would have preferred them continue the MKCC. I would like to see more benefits with the DVC membership. I never joined the DC as the value wasn't there for us."

Dean, I don't know Disney's rational for ending DC. Maybe they feel people will come and spend regardless of DC and if so then they are leaving money on the table by continueing it. I guess time will tell. Do I feel they "owe" everyone a discount product -NO. In reality, by virtue of Disney's high price, they're not even offering WDW or DL to everyone. I'm sure we all know people that can afford a trip to Six Flaggs but not WDW. I don't have strong feelings for DC because of my DVC membership. Outside of AP purchases, DC had no real benifit for me. I guess I'm one of the lucky few who will get the greatest benifit from the new CC.
And I'm still not convienced that we've seen the full benifits of the new CC and perhaps if Bank One is declining too many loyal fans then maybe Disney will work with Bank One to encourage a Classic or Gold version that would be availible to a wider range of people. I'm just not ready to bash something before all the details are out there.

Dean
04-23-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by KNWVIKING
And I'm still not convienced that we've seen the full benifits of the new CC and perhaps if Bank One is declining too many loyal fans then maybe Disney will work with Bank One to encourage a Classic or Gold version that would be availible to a wider range of people. I'm just not ready to bash something before all the details are out there. Thanks for clarifying and i too hope there are more benefits to come.

raidermatt
04-23-2003, 09:49 PM
Then I guess we can't bash Dinorama or DCA, since they could improve in the future?

In fact, no negative feedback on anything should be given, since anything could improve in the future?

Really...the wait and see was valid before the card was offered, and before the account agreements were in hand.

As of now, it is what it is. Maybe more is planned, or maybe more will happen if people complain. That's hardly anything to hang your hat on though.

HorizonsFan
04-23-2003, 09:51 PM
I explained to her (politely) my confusion over my status (ergo, I applied back in February, got a declination letter in mid March, then found in mid April that the update system was saying my application was "still" under review). She confirmed that "under review" message wasn't some system fluke, and that my application was indeed "active and in process."
I've posted this several times now...
We recieved a letter from Bank One after we recieved our cards saying that some declination letters were mailed to the wrong people and if we got one to disregard it.
You may still recieve a card.
I think this all started because of the anger generated by a poorly worded declination letter. It has devolved (as most topics on this forum do) into a "good Disney decision" vs. "bad Disney decision" but the OP is definately about a CC declination.

Lesley
04-23-2003, 10:56 PM
well, we were declined as well.....but the reason being that our main card is with a division of Bank One and they don't want to offer us any more credit than they already have (not that they stopped them from upping our credit limit many many times over the past few years.....)

Kind of stinks since I didn't want more credit...I wanted the card to get rewards and pay it off every month. But anyway...I'll just be paying off the other card and appyling again eventually.... I do get similar rewards from the current card, they're just not Disney rewards....

I guess with our current move I'll have to wait a bit anyway...

Walt's Frozen Head
04-24-2003, 06:49 AM
The latest challenge was whether one group of shouters in our little game of Disney Lite: "less fulfilling!" "tastes like sour grapes!" was interested in taking the discussion of this topic beyond mikeymars initial emotional reaction to a personal disappointment.

My point is that this thread is being blown into some "greater cause" crusade when all it really is about is credit card rejection.
I only read the original post (and a few that followed mine this morning) and not the 11 pages worth of replies...[snip] This is strictly a reaction to the original post.

So the answer is "no," no one wants to do that? Fair enough.

Should anyone want to in the future, I'll still be here to discuss the issue of the Disney Visa card and how it is symbolic and symptomatic of Disney's SOP of turning its back on its most loyal customers... just like I have been since this was announced, months ago. Funny thing, a lot a people who back then sounded like you all do now... couldn't be bothered to actually read the thread they were commenting on, so obsessed with one detail that they couldn't consider a wider issue... insisted that my opinions then meant nothing because "we haven't seen the card." Now the opinions mean nothing because they were echoed by someone who got turned down for the card.

One last thing about "wasting time." For some of us, this has been a twelve page thread about Disney's change in its historical philosophy towards treatment of its customers and the Disney Visa's place in that turnabout... which is a topic worthy of that much attention, some folks think.

Mind you, I do see your point: anyone who has been around for twelve pages and is still insisting all the hubbub is about a single credit card rejection has certainly been wasting their time with this thread.

-WFH

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 07:48 AM
Matt, I don't have a problem bashing DCA or Dino because for now ,what you see is what you got. But what is irratating is the bashing that has already started over Everest.

Bashing the Rewards card now though is a different story. Do people who enjoyed the MKC have the right to bash the DC- Yes. But has anyone who holds a current DC card lost anything yet ? As it stands at this moment they not only have the DC discounts, but if they somehow managed to get the ever elusive Rewards card they now have those benifits-limited as they may be. Disney has also stated there are more benifits to come. I'm willing to believe that "more" will happen when the DC benifits actually end at the end of this year. Maybe come Jan 04 I'll be the loadest basher of the CC.

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 07:59 AM
"The latest challenge was whether one group of shouters in our little game of Disney Lite: "less fulfilling!" "tastes like sour grapes!" was interested in taking the discussion of this topic beyond mikeymars initial emotional reaction to a personal disappointment."


"So the answer is "no," no one wants to do that? Fair enough."

WFH: Then start a thread that is about those issues. We can start with a fresh piece of screen rather the 12 pages of "he said, she said". Unless I misinterpreted your little "PS" to mikey, I think you agree that the purpose of the OT has nothing to do with the topics you wish to discuss.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-24-2003, 08:59 AM
I think you agree that the purpose of the OT has nothing to do with the topics you wish to discuss.

You think wrong.

I agree that the immediate impetus for mikeymars to write was a single credit card rejection. Unlike you, I simply did not immediately assume that mikeymars was so mentally fragile that such a small issue would cause this sort of reaction in and of itself. Unlike some, I simply did not forget that this is not a perfect medium where one's every communicative intent is immediately clear to all and sundry; and I read the whole thread instead of judging someone based solely on a post obviously written under emotional stress, while ignoring the dozens of followups, clarifications and agreements from others who have not had the emotional experience of being turned down for the card.

You just keep coming back, saying the same thing the rest of knew on page 1 and complaining about how you can't believe that some people are saying the same thing for 12 pages.

We all agree with you.

Yours are the hands that you down, you friend... no one's forcing to take part in this waste of time: it is your continued posting that demonstrates your fascination in something you decry as a waste of time.

You okay, man? My B.S. is in psychology, I know living with that kind of cognitive dissonance can be... you know... unhealthy... for the ol' noodle.

If you're bored with where this topic led, I'm pretty sure there are some others... perhaps someone can help you with a link. Personally, I'm interested in where this topic has led, and I feel like a bunch of bulletheads are trying to snuff out the conversation just because they don't want to hear it. So I'm here for the long haul. If you can't kick your addiction to wasting time in this thread, you're just going to have to get used to the idea of wasting it hand-in-hand with me, pard'.

-WFH

DisneyKidds
04-24-2003, 09:21 AM
Disney Visa card............ is symbolic and symptomatic of Disney's SOP of turning its back on its most loyal customers...
Amen, brother Head (tap, tap...........hello...........is this thing on ;))
I'm willing to believe that "more" will happen when the DC benifits actually end at the end of this year.
Boy, I'm probably going to sound like Baron/Matt/AV/Head sound when they tell me I am fooling myself believeing some of the things I do about the parks.........................but the track record indicates that this willingness to believe will only leave you disappointed. Right now the ONLY hope is that the DC is 'Early Entried' (ie. there is enough backlash over it's demise that Disney reverses the course of a made decision and brings something back). At this point, I don't see how there can be any plan in the wings for a true DC replacement. Don't you think they'd be letting on a little if there were?

crusader
04-24-2003, 09:41 AM
Thus, the balancing test in this guestion appears to be whether enough loyal guests would be so excited as this Disney Visa card adding to their benefits that it would dramatically overcome the number of loyal guests whose credit was so bad that they couldn't get approved for this card and its benefits.

I don't think the loyal guests got excited about anything. I think the company took full advantage of its base by forcing a credit application on them in order to obtain discounts once available to everyone and cleverly disguised them as a reward.

I believe they have gone so far as to selling the idea of the worthiness of charging a vacation package on this card. Don't kid yourselves for one minute into thinking you haven't disclosed your habits and tendencies to this corporation. Big brother is watching and taking notes.

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 10:24 AM
". Unlike you, I simply did not immediately assume that mikeymars was so mentally fragile that such a small issue would cause this sort of reaction in and of itself. "

I made no such assumption. Read my first post. I simply stated that I was amazed at his passion over this,but did not understand it.

"You okay, man? My B.S. is in psychology, I know living with that kind of cognitive dissonance can be... you know... unhealthy... for the ol' noodle."

Oh yeah,I'm fine, man. Of course without a B.S. I have know idea where this comment fits into any discussion we're having, But I'm pretty certain you'll enlighten me.


"If you're bored with where this topic led, I'm pretty sure there are some others..."


Frustrated more then bored. Somehow, mikeys OT is being glamorized as a greater fight for all Diz fanatics against the giant Bank One/Disney alliance. I'm not willing to give him that much credit.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-24-2003, 10:27 AM
then let's address whether this is a market Disney should have even entered (because inevitably some loyal customers would have such bad credit that they couldn't qualify for the Visa card).

Okay: No.

What's next, that one was too easy. ;)

-WFH

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 10:45 AM
I don't see why Disney shouldn't have gotten into this market. I don't agree that it should be the only discount product they offer, but a lot of money is being made off branded CC. Why shouldn't Disney try to also. For my vacation habits,the Rewards card is my best option,( I can't compare it to MKC because I never had MKC).

Walt's Frozen Head
04-24-2003, 11:07 AM
a lot of money is being made off branded CC. Why shouldn't Disney try to also

Well, a lot of money is being made off cocaine, internet gambling, black market babies, and hard-core porn, too... is "why shouldn't Disney try to also" a reasonable question in those cases?

Sometimes taking all the money you can get isn't the best thing for you or your long-term business. A lot of it depends on what your customers have come to expect from you... and how much they perceive their expectations are being met over time. Disney is living the truth of that now.

What is there about "branded credit cards" that makes you think it's not just the latest fashion among CEOs? This deciscion... trying to cash in quick on what "everybody else is making a lot of money on," sounds precisely like the reasoning behind the internet portal and the airplane leases and the cable stations: unimaginative copy-cat initiatives that have nothing to do with creating entertainment.

-WFH

raidermatt
04-24-2003, 11:22 AM
Interesting "side note".... The number of people that can qualify for an unsecured credit card is smaller than most think. Some estimates are that less than 50% of Americans qualify. Those that qualify for a "prime" segment product, such as a Platinum Visa, are a subset of that group. How large is dependent on the lender's credit standards, which have been tightened in many cases due to the increasing number of defaults.

"Bad" credit is a relative thing...

I think we would find that the percentage of DC members who cannot qualify for the Disney Visa is not insignificant. Further, there are those who believe they shouldn't let an entertainment company lead them in making credit decisions. Had the DC not been cancelled, much of this discussion could be moot.

Also, while its true the DC doesn't end until 12/31/03, they have stopped accepting new applications, so the number of potential DC members who instead have to make a credit choice grows everyday.

There's no doubt that there are some loyal customers getting dinged by this decision. The only question is whether there are enough of them to make this a bad long-term choice for Disney.

Maybe there are, maybe there aren't, but its Disney's willingness to make this kind of decision over and over again that is really the problem. Every ding adds up, and only when taken in sum does the impact start to show itself.

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 11:25 AM
"Well, a lot of money is being made off cocaine, internet gambling, black market babies, and hard-core porn, too... is "why shouldn't Disney try to also" a reasonable question in those cases? "

I will assume this is sarcasim because I'm fairly certain you would never realistically compare Credit Cards to Cocaine.

Credit Cards are here to stay. They are an everyday part of our spending habits. If CC's are used properly, then a reward card is manna from Heaven. Disney is not doing me a dis-service by offering one,they are doing me a favor. I'm going to use a CC for every purchase I make,regardless of wether Disney offers one. Since they do, I'll use theirs. If Disney can make a few extra bucks by me doing so-great- it cost me nothing extra.

crusader
04-24-2003, 11:31 AM
and the card has no annual fee, I've saved money for nothing whereas with the Disney Club I would have had to pay 30 bucks to save money.

I'm not certain an annual fee won't be unveiled at a later date. Hey for the avid disneyite this card may appear to provide something. But look what the company got - possibly a share in the merchant fee (3% or so) plus a share in the interest (18% if I'm not mistaken) and they hooked the consumer into applying a 1% rollback exclusively to their products.

It's a trap for the base designed to keep you coming.

Walt's Frozen Head
04-24-2003, 11:49 AM
I will assume this is sarcasim because I'm fairly certain you would never realistically compare Credit Cards to Cocaine.

You assume wrong.

Your one and only defense was the credit card "made money," and I was pointing out valid reasons that this was a specious and meaningless defense. Further, I recommended a course of action that I feel would be positive for Disney: create products that your traditional customers will recognize as "Disney."

The Disney Visa Card pimps Disney's name and that's it. No one will ever delight in the joy of a child presented a Disney Visa Card, no parent will long to share the joy of credit applications with loved ones, no family will have the common memory of cresting that big hill on the Disney Visa Card.

The Disney Visa Card is unrecognizable as "Disney" if you consider "Disney" to be a creative entity... only if you consider "Disney" a particular set of bookkeepping functions.

-WFH

KNWVIKING
04-24-2003, 12:16 PM
Well, maybe the CC won't impress my future grand child, but the gift I purchased with the reward dollars will, or the trip I book with it, whatever. Credit cards are not evil and neither is Disney for branding one,( FWIW, I've recieved two compliments from merchants when they saw the card).

Since your previous comment was not sarcasim then I have to assume you believe I think it's okay for Disney to do whatever it wanted to make money. Well, I guess I have no logical response for that.

Sarangel
04-24-2003, 12:26 PM
OK, this has gone on long enough. Obviously, tensions are running high in regards to this Credit Card, but name-calling to make points is unacceptable (and has been removed). I'm closing this thread, and I invite those involved to begin a "DEBATE:..." thread if they can continue this discussion in a civilized fashion.

Sarangel