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View Full Version : Has Disney Been Out-Valued By Universal?


DisneyKidds
04-07-2003, 01:19 PM
Another poster made an interesting comment in another thread that, basing a comparison of Disney and Universal on money (cost) and the value provided, Universal "has the market hands down."

Is this the case? Is the perception more important than the reality? Has this perception, be it true or false, negatively affected Disney's Orlando theme park business?

Let's throw out a few apples to apples facts.

Assume family X, consisting of 2 adults, one 14 year old, and one 8 year old, wants to go to Orlando for 8 days and 7 nights. Let's look objectively at the cost, assuming best discounts currently available for a moderate, on site resort. Assume that family X desires to purchase annual passes that can be used on a future trip. Assume family X spends the same amount on food and souvenirs wherever they go.

Option 1 is Disney. Currently, 7 nights at CSR with a discount code would cost $728, tax included. Regular AP's for the family would cost $1,510. Total lodging and pass cost is $2,238.

Option 2 is Universal. Currently, 7 nights at Hard Rock Hotel with an Entertainment discount would cost $1,050. In order to have AP's that are the equivalent of a regular Disney AP (admission to 4 theme parks) we'll assume that family X buys a Universal 2 Park Preferred AP and a Sea World/Busch Gardens Silver Pass. Cost of passes would be $1,100. This provides family X to a years worth of admission to 4 theme parks. Total lodging and pass cost is $2,160.

As one can see, the difference in price is negligible. Both options provide good accomodations at a nice resort, access to 4 well themed parks, and various AP discounts and benefits. Sure, someone might say that Hard Rock is nicer than CSR, or the Disney parks are better themed, etc., etc. - but either way you are at a great resort with lots of entertainment options.

Value is largely dependant on the person. However, at the same cost for the same lodging/admissions, can anyone consider one a better value than the other based solely on cost? Again, even if the cost is the same, has Universal cornered a market based on the fact that people THINK it is cheaper than Disney? Is the perception that Universal is cheaper a widely held one? Can Disney do anything about such perceptions? Should they?

What do you think?

Bob O
04-07-2003, 01:35 PM
Their is no comparsion between the Hardrock Hotel which is a deluxe hotel as compared to a moderate in CSR. And the perk of Front of the line access totally blows away any comparsion in these packages!!
With this Unviersal/wdw comparsion only, Universal gives you much better options IMHO as it is cheaper, you stay at a much better resort, the ease of walking to the park with no buses/cars needed and FOTL makes it a slam dunk!!
And this takes into consideration the car trip to Sea World and a trip to BGT for those few who would use that option, but it is an excellant option and these 4 parks compare well to disney's four parks.

ChairborneRangr
04-07-2003, 01:47 PM
Run this same scenario with a the given family without annual passes.

WDW
All-Star Movies -- $83 (icl tax) * 7 nights = $581
5 day park hopper + 4 add-ons -- $258+$258+$258+$205 = $979
total = $1,560

USO
On-Site Hotel $1,050 (from other post)
5 Park Orlando Flex Ticket $201.5+$201.5+$201.5+$162.5 = $767
total = $1817

That is 14% less.

I know ASM is no where near the resort that HR is. Is there a value resort on site at USO? If so use those numbers. As far as I'm concerned if it's onsite (for early entry and fotl perks) and has a pool, it's all I need. We spend very little time at the resort anyway.

It looks like the values are roughly equivalent.

DisneyKidds
04-07-2003, 01:55 PM
Their is no comparsion between the Hardrock Hotel
That may be the case, but Hard Rock is the cheapest on-site Universal resort so it is the closest to moderate as you can get. I don't know much about the hotel to comment otherwise. Likewise, CSR provides more amenities than the other Disney moderate resorts. Again, trying to stay out of the 'my resort is nicer than your resort' game, I'd say that each option provides you with mid-level (for that organization) accomodations and comparable park admission.

Your comments regarding FOTL are valid. I'm not sure I agree about access to parks. Does Universal provide any transportaion to Sea World? Busch Gardens is a long trip that you must provide your own transportation to. If most people wouldn't go there you are essentially paying for access to only three parks. How does that factor into the equation?

Let me say again, I am not trying to pick at Universal. I actually would like to learn more about it. I shouldn't say this, but if Disney pulls garbage in December like they are in May (no SpectroMagic currently scheduled) we will take several days and go to Universal/IOA :eek:.

DisneyKidds
04-07-2003, 02:01 PM
I know ASM is no where near the resort that HR is.
Unfortunately, for many the analysis only clouds further if you consider the All Stars. However, your point is well taken. That point is that Disney provides more options for you to create your own value, as is shown by Disney's cheapest option being less than Universal's cheapest, even if the lodging is not comparable in size or luxury.

Bob O
04-07-2003, 02:07 PM
If i remember correctly yhe new Poyal Pacific is the cheapest hotel on site.
The hardrock isnt a mid level hotel like CSR is and is considered a premium hotel just like disney has several hotels on site that are considered premuim hotels.

DisneyKidds
04-07-2003, 02:12 PM
How about we do this...................................

Take the resort issue off the table. With an Entertainment discount you can get the Swan or Dolphin for the same price as Hard Rock with an Entertainment discount. These resorts would be quite comparable. Both resorts give you walking access to 2 parks.

What does that leave us with? Park admission. Park admission is less in the Universal option. In the AP example it is $1,100 for Universal/SW/BG vs. $1,500 for Disney. As Bob pointed out, BG is so far removed that most families on an Orlando vacation probably won't go. So you are essentially paying $1,100 for access to 3 parks (or $367 per park), where at Disney you pay $1,500 for 4 parks (or $378 per park). On a per park basis things get back to being very comparable from a cost perspective. Universal does seem to gve you the option of spending less, but realistically you are getting less. Again, is Universal really the better value, or is that more perception based on personal preference?

Testtrack321
04-07-2003, 02:13 PM
Front of the line access is what pushes me away from Universal more and more. The last time I went, most of those in the Express Pass line were using the FotL access. And they wern't very nice about it. "Yeah, what is this? Our 5th time on this ride. Yeah, I know...." "Using Epxress Pass. HA! We don't need that."

daannzzz
04-07-2003, 02:24 PM
I am going to Orlando on May 3'd for 15 days. I will do a couple days in Sarasota and then 4 nights at the Portofino Bay for $170 a night. I was going to buy 2 one day passes to Universals parks but found on their website a 5 day pass for $89. I have been to IOA before and I found half of it to be awesomely themed and half to be done just okay and there are not loads of rides for me as I don't do coasters or spinners, don't have kids and don't see lots of shows. I am looking forward to my time their. I am then going to WDW for 8 nights where I got reduced rates at my hotels but even if I didn't I would still prefer WDW because there is more to to in the vein that I like and it is mostly done better than Universal though they did to some catching up. It would take a lot from universal for it to become a better value....for me.

DisneyKidds
04-07-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Bob O
If i remember correctly yhe new Poyal Pacific is the cheapest hotel on site.
The hardrock isnt a mid level hotel like CSR is and is considered a premium hotel just like disney has several hotels on site that are considered premuim hotels.
You are right Bob, Royal Pacific is the cheapest (but not much cheaper). However, the steep Entertainment discount used in my example isn't available at RP. Absent an Entertainment discount you'd be hard pressed to find such a resort at half off. As best I can tell the cheapest rate at RP won't be any cheaper than the Entertainment rate for Hard Rock. Thanks for confirming that the cheapest, comparable Universal resort to the Disney moderates still produces a negligible price difference ;).

As I said, with all the different hotels and disconts available you are bound to find comparable on-site lodging at a comparable price, so perhaps we should leave the hotels out.

HB2K
04-07-2003, 02:51 PM
Run this same scenario with a the given family without annual passes.

WDW
All-Star Movies -- $83 (icl tax) * 7 nights = $581
5 day park hopper + 4 add-ons -- $258+$258+$258+$205 = $979
total = $1,560

USO
On-Site Hotel $1,050 (from other post)
5 Park Orlando Flex Ticket $201.5+$201.5+$201.5+$162.5 = $767
total = $1817

That is 14% less.

I know ASM is no where near the resort that HR is. Is there a value resort on site at USO? If so use those numbers. As far as I'm concerned if it's onsite (for early entry and fotl perks) and has a pool, it's all I need. We spend very little time at the resort anyway.

It looks like the values are roughly equivalent.
You're comparing products (and their associated prices) to see if Universal is a better deal. Don't find a Disney resort that is the same price as HRH to use as your comparison.

HRH is a deluxe resort. Use a comparable Disney resort (Poly, Contemp, Boardwalk, etc). Swan / Dolphin are not Disney resorts. Now when you make you're comparison, the products you're comparing are apples to apples. Not apples to oranges.

When you compare a stay in a deluxe resort at universal with associated park media to a stay in a deluxe resort at Disney with associate park media, how do you end up?

KNWVIKING
04-07-2003, 03:16 PM
If I stayed on-site at WDW with just AP's, at the end of 8 days there would still be things I hadn't done or seen. IMO IOA/US is a 3-4 day trip,tops. I would be spending money to find other things to do and would have to a rental car in order to get there. And if I were a golfer, then WDW just keeps looking better and better.

crusader
04-07-2003, 03:19 PM
You are right Bob, Royal Pacific is the cheapest (but not much cheaper). However, the steep Entertainment discount used in my example isn't available at RP.

Actually it is available at $110.00 + 11.5% tax which comes to $858.55 for 7 nights. The accomodations at a moderate Disney resort do not compare to any of the Loews' resorts at Universal.

KNWVIKING
04-07-2003, 03:27 PM
For the traveller on a short budget, doesn't the lack of an AS type resort at IOA/US basically inflate the value of WDW ? If the parks and not the resort is the focus of your vacation, why pay extra for a deluxe resort ?

jlambrig
04-07-2003, 03:29 PM
I have stayed at both Universal and WDW several times for extended periods of time. The Hard Rock could be considered deluxe but it is not a Universal property. If you want to claim that Swan/Dolphin aren't Disney, don't claim HRH is Universal. It is a Hard Rock product on Universal property. It is a very relevant comparison and they are comparable properties. I have stayed at HRH in a 1 br suite, a family suite, and the regular studio. Some may consider it deluxe, I will not offer any opinion there other than to say it is the best apples to apples comparison when talking Dolphin and Swan.

As for value, it is all perspective. Having done USF and IOA, I have reached the conclusion that it was fun while it lasted but I have no desire to return. It is a been there done that. I don't feel totally immersed in my vacation experience as I do at Disney. This is both in trips by myself and with my family.

Disney has a better value for me because I have a much easier time forgetting there is a world outside of the parks and I relax more and therefore enjoy my time more.

Disney CM's are much better than USF/IOA. I have never had a USF/IOA employee strike up a conversation with my 5 yr old daughter and offer to trade pins with her. Or give her a crown and tell she is the princess for the day in England. Or be the girl who gets to "open" the park. Or recognizes the puzzled look on my face and asks if they can be of service without prompting from me.

I could care less about whether they paint while I am in the park. Or sweep the streets before the park closes. Can it be annoying? Apparently so. But so is rain or getting a cold or twisting my ankle while at Disney. It is still a better value for me than USF/IOA will ever be.

FOTL is a great idea and is nice to have. I enjoyed the perq. I will take the look on my daughter's face as she "wakes Tinker Bell up" over getting to ride some attraction sooner.

I applaud those who find USF/IOA to be a better value. They are two great parks for what they offer. Until they become more of what I desire in a vacation experience than Cedar Point South, WDW will be the better value

All Aboard
04-07-2003, 04:26 PM
First, I'm on neither side of this debate. As evidenced by how frequently I drive the 475 mile round trip to visit both of these places they are offering excellent value to me.

HRH is a deluxe resort. Use a comparable Disney resort (Poly, Contemp, Boardwalk, etc). Swan / Dolphin are not Disney resorts. Now when you make you're comparison, the products you're comparing are apples to apples. Not apples to oranges. I'd compare HRH to Swan / Dolphin before Boardwalk / Beach / Yacht / Poly / Contemp. First, the HRH rooms are 340 sf and second, there are no balconies. It's a great place, don't get me wrong. I stayed there this weekend and will definitely go back. But, it's hard to draw a direct comparison to any Disney resort.

Also, in the pass example. Why does the Universal choice include annual passes to Busch and Sea World? Will the guests really go to Sea World more than just a day?

I have never had a USF/IOA employee strike up a conversation with my 5 yr old daughter In my case it happened quite a bit this past weekend. There are plenty of examples of wonderful employees at Universal. Don "Blinkie" who works the Beetlejuice show and the Wild West show is a fantastic example. It seems that Universal gets a lot of negative comments about employees on these boards. Never could figure out why. I don't think I've had one bad experience at either WDW or UO.

I could care less about whether they paint while I am in the park. Or sweep the streets before the park closes. Can it be annoying? Apparently so. But so is rain or getting a cold or twisting my ankle while at Disney.But, your first two examples are controlled by the Company that should be trying very hard NOT to be annoying.

Let me say again, I am not trying to pick at Universal. I actually would like to learn more about it. I shouldn't say this, but if Disney pulls garbage in December like they are in May (no SpectroMagic currently scheduled) we will take several days and go to Universal/IOA You sound exactly like me two years ago. I had not been to Universal in ages. There was a great deal of discussion about how great IOA was. I couldn't participate much since I hadn't been there. So, I decided that in order to form an opinion, I obviously had to check it out for myself. Peter Pirate can tell you that I was taken back by how wonderful a job they did. I spoke with him upon return and told him how shocked I was. I was expecting something decidely below the quality of a Disney park. What I got was quite the opposite.

raidermatt
04-07-2003, 05:35 PM
I don't really intend to debate this either, as I think value includes personal preferences, which can't be right or wrong. The answer to "Has Universal out-valued Disney" is going to depend on how much one likes what each offers.

It does seem that more people think Universal has improved its value proposition than think that Disney has improved theirs.

Also, I can't recall anyone ever saying that Universal has gone downhill, or is offering less value than it did in the past. Yet that complaint is often heard with regard to Disney. That could be telling, considering this is a Disney board, not a Universal board.

So my guess would be that if you measured the value perceived by guests at both resorts with respect to both resorts, and came up with some kind of "average value", we'd find that Universal had closed the gap with Disney. I think that what we'd see is the average value perceived about Universal had risen over the last 5 years, while the average value perceived about WDW had fallen over that same period.

Other than attendance figures, I don't really have any proof of that, other than the un-scientific observations I mentioned.

DisneyKidds
04-08-2003, 12:21 AM
Also, in the pass example. Why does the Universal choice include annual passes to Busch and Sea World?
I am trying, to the maximum extent possible, to make apples to apples comparisons. To compare most Universal/IOA ticket media to Disney ticket media is useless as Universal AP's only give you access to half as many parks. Furthermore, if a family were to spend a week in Orlando they could easily fill that week at Disney with a multi-day pass. I'm not sure the same could be said of just USF and IOA. Finally, I chose Sea World/BG as the ticket to add as Universal is affiliated with these parks in some way and Universal does offer a multi-day pass that includes these parks.

As for debating the issues of better hotels/better parks, I'm not that interested. How much entertainment value any one person gets from the money they spend at either place is very subjective. As for strict value based on getting a certain amount of lodging or admission for your dollar I think Disney and Universal are pretty equal. I'm sure that isn't by happenstance - business is business after all.

That gets back to the key question of why people perceive that they are getting a strictly dollars based better value at Universal, if that is what most people think - which I'm not sure it is.

crusader
04-08-2003, 06:19 AM
That gets back to the key question of why people perceive that they are getting a strictly dollars based better value at Universal,

Not sure where that perception lies. Value may be misinterpreted to describe the actual cash outlay for a UO vacation as being less than a WDW vacation for the same number of days. This falls mainly in the ticket pricing category since you cannot buy a two or three day park hopper for a 7 day WDW stay (excluding those who really research and work hard to accomplish this though outside means). I am speaking of the typical vacationer who will use the CRO or other Disney outlet when purchasing tickets.

Not every guest feels the benefit of a 4 park experience vs 2 parks especially with a teenage family and could percieve it as being charged more just to be allowed the right to park hop between any two parks.

DisneyKidds
04-08-2003, 08:13 AM
Not every guest feels the benefit of a 4 park experience vs 2 parks especially with a teenage family and could perceive it as being charged more just to be allowed the right to park hop between any two parks.
I agree with your point. That is why I tried to use a family going to Disney/Universal for a week and not just wanting to visit the parks for 2 or 3 days. Of course, if a family only wanted to do two parks and only wanted to visit those parks over three days I doubt they'd stay in a Disney hotel for the whole week. A two or three night on-site resort reservation does allow you to purchase a two or three day Unlimited Magic Pass. It would certainly give the Disney guest a lot more flexibility to stay on-site for a week if a 2/3 day Park Hopper were offered, but that flexibility would mainly be to go off-site so Disney isn't likely to offer such passes. They probably should though, as it might encourage more people to stay on-site at Disney even if they intend to go elsewhere. With things like FOTL access and the nice resorts Universal offers I can't see a lot of people wanting to stay in a Disney hotel if they are going to Universal, but they might.

jlambrig
04-08-2003, 08:22 AM
quote:
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Value may be misinterpreted to describe the actual cash outlay for a UO vacation as being less than a WDW vacation for the same number of days
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Agreed.

quote:
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How much entertainment value any one person gets from the money they spend at either place is very subjective...That gets back to the key question of why people perceive that they are getting a strictly dollars based better value at Universal, if that is what most people think - which I'm not sure it is.
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My perception of value as a customer is based on the cash outlay, the entertainment facotr, the quality of the facilities. It is impossible for me to say USF/IOA is or isn't a better value. I can't dismiss the other variables to this equation. It can just cost less if I want it to. As can Disney. Disney is still a better value for me as an individual and for my family.

DisneyKidds
04-08-2003, 08:59 AM
My perception of value as a customer is based on the cash outlay, the entertainment facotr, the quality of the facilities.
I agree that you need to consider all these items in truely determining value. I imagine that most people do. Sometimes I wonder if there are some people who simply see 'less expensive' equating to 'more value', regardless of what you are actually purchasing.

OnWithTheShow
04-08-2003, 09:07 AM
Not to bring up an entirely different topic but it upsets me when people consider DAK a half day park but say nothing of IOA. I have never been to IOA (even during peak season) where I did not finish everything in the park once, with at least two trips on Hulk, Spidey, and Dueling Dragons by 2PM.

DisneyKidds
04-08-2003, 09:20 AM
Not to bring up an entirely different topic
I wouldn't say this is off topic. If people question the value of AK based on the fact that you can see everything in a 'half day', one would have to consider the same in assessing the value offered by IOA.

rangebob
04-08-2003, 11:46 AM
One thing that I am not seeing on the posts yet. If you purchase an annual pass from Universal they will give you a discount on Food and Merchandise in almost all locations. The only location that I've noticed that they won't give you a discount is at the food carts. I don't remember the discount but I think it is 20% on Food and 10% on Merchandise. When was the last time that you heard of Disney giving out a discount in the park??? I never saw it except when I was a cast member.

DisOrBust
04-08-2003, 11:51 AM
LEt me throw in an actual case. My DH's 20 something cousin and BF rented a condo and planned on 5 days at WDW. The 5 day PH was 230. THey found the USO 5 day pass for 89.oo plus seaworld 2 day pass for 50.00. Guess where they ended up going. They had a great time and felt they got a "great deal" with these tickets and didn't miss going to WDW at all! Wether the value is actuall can be debated but they truely felt they got the better end of the stick!

Now throw in the onsite resorts and FOTL. Sorry but Universal is gaining.

YoHo
04-08-2003, 12:44 PM
In reasponse to Robert Walker, I don't know about WDW, but DisneyLAND's AP gives you a 10-20% discount at almost all food locations in DCA/DL even at some of the pushcarts. I would assume WDW is a similar value.



Now as to the question of Apples to apples. I think its useless to compare secret code discount rates. Most people that travel to either park don't know about them. Book a package deal through the website and see how the prices compare. That's how most peopple book there vacation and thus that's how most people will determine value. I booked a 7 night package staying at the allstar music just to see what it would cost the other day and I paid about $1500 not including flights.


Most normal people don't scower the internet looking for the ultra secret fairbanks Alaska code number that will get them a room for half price. they pay near rack rate.


At best they get whatever dicount the travel agent can get them. That is what you should compare, because that is what most people pay.

HB2K
04-08-2003, 01:57 PM
While you may be able to do IOA in a half of a day time wise, most of your time is spent on attractions. DAK does not have the number of Popular attractions that IOA has.

DAK's just happen to have slightly longer lines.

DisneyKidds
04-08-2003, 02:20 PM
While you may be able to do IOA in a half of a day time wise, most of your time is spent on attractions. DAK does not have the number of Popular attractions that IOA has.

DAK's just happen to have slightly longer lines.
Spoken like a true............................ah, never mind ;)

Popular attractions? That is sure subjective :rolleyes:. I also have to disagree with the lines bit. We wait on NO lines at DAK and still can't see everything we want to between the hours of 9 and 5.

pheneix
04-08-2003, 03:14 PM
>>>Popular attractions? That is sure subjective<<<

You're right, it is. I am typically RUNNING out of Animal Kingdom by 12pm (that is, of course, if I even bother to make the drive over there) because I have already seen the Safari, Kali, CTX, and Bug and want to get out of the heat.

At Islands of Adventure, I am typically being dragged out of the park kicking and screaming at closing time because I want to get in more rides on The Hulk or Spiderman.

I guarantee that I will spend much more time in AK whenever Forbidden Mountain opens, but it will definitely pale in comparison to how long I stay at Islands of Adventure.

P.S. I should also add that the dozens of screaming 4 year olds also has a profound impact on my experience at a Disney park, and the lack of them at Islands of Adventure really cuts down on the "I'm getting the hell out of here before my eardrums burst" moments. Of course, that is really a problem with parents and not Disney, but it is something to think about none the less.

dturner
04-08-2003, 03:29 PM
Here's the viewpoint from someone who works on cash alone. I took my 6 year old to Disney World last September for 5 nights at the All Star Sports, Fall Fantasy Package with tickets for something like $950.00, airfare was cheap (Dal to Orl - $300.00 both of us round trip), took $600.00 cash, was able to do the whole vacation for under $2,000 which is a very good deal considering once your inside Disney all you have to pay for is meals and souveniors. With Disney having 4 parks and Disneyquest and all the water parks we were never without something to do and still didn't see everything. This year my son wants to go to Universal & IOA because he's such a Spiderman freak, I've been looking and looking and looking and for the money you can't stay onsite at Universal as cheap as Disney, I don't want to rent a car so would have to stay within walking distance or shuttle busses (which I tend to stay away from unless they are Disney transportation). My thinking on all this is for the money Disney is the better value. I just can't see spending more or the same money for Universal with only two parks (one of which is just like our Six Flags here at home) but then again it depends upon the person, I personally am a Disney Freak, been going since 1971 and would go every week if I could, I also couldn't fathom being in Orlando and not going to Disney.

Maybe one day we could do both Universal and Disney in the same trip, that's an idea, time to start researching again.

:bounce: :Pinkbounc :bounce: :Pinkbounc :bounce: :Pinkbounc

All Aboard
04-08-2003, 03:35 PM
I should also add that the dozens of screaming 4 year olds also has a profound impact on my experience at a Disney park, and the lack of them at Islands of Adventure really cuts down on the "I'm getting the hell out of here before my eardrums burst" moments.In my continued effort to balance...

What cuts into my IOA experience is the throngs of shabbily dressed, fully tattooed and fully pierced teens smoking everywhere and shouting obscenities at one another, between bouts of pushing and spitting at each other and throwing food wrappers onto the ground. One particularly nice episode on Sunday of this past weekend involved a group of the above mentioned and the Mystic Fountain.

Not that there aren't any of these at WDW, just many fewer than at IOA. Similar, but in reverse, to the crying 4 year olds.

funhouse8
04-08-2003, 03:50 PM
Just my two cents.... When we went on our last Disney vacation we had to try out IOA. Yes, it is a great park. Yes, the rides can't be beat. But they need to work on their people skills. The staff seemed bored and often answered our questions rudely. Even my older daughter stated "I've got the feeling we aren't in Disney anymore." We did have a great day but you just don't get the same atmosphere as you get in the Disney parks. Will we return to IOA? Yes, Will we spend most of our time at Disney Parks- You bet. Will we have fun, for sure! Can't wait to go!

Testtrack321
04-08-2003, 05:09 PM
I think we are trying to give value (not the type in the thread title) to things that are unique to each visiter.

Some people will find a better value at WDW with their pre-made travel and accomidations. Others will find Universal cheeper for their needs.

crusader
04-08-2003, 09:59 PM
Not that there aren't any of these at WDW, just many fewer than at IOA. Similar, but in reverse, to the crying 4 year olds.

Or they just happen to be more dispersed until the parks close and they all present themselves at pleasure island.

The crying children is an issue I often associate with a guest trying to "get their moneys worth". Not sure how value is being measured in that example.

One item I have yet to see mentioned is that Disney references Value in terms of its resorts to diffentiate price. This impies "less expensive" to a guest who is looking to save money on this vacation. Since these resorts are no frills and priced a bit higher than the market how is this a value for the onsite guest? The only advantage appears to be free parking or free bussing which isn't much relatively speaking.

rangebob
04-09-2003, 06:48 AM
YoHo, I've had an annual pass at WDW for 5 years. I've never seen a discount on food ever there. The only place that you can sometimes when it is the 6th Sat of the month, the moon is setting on a solar flair can you get a discount at Downtown Disney. Trying to get a discount out of WDW is like having a tooth pulled without novacane at the dentist office.

DisneyKidds
04-09-2003, 07:49 AM
Trying to get a discount out of WDW is like having a tooth pulled without novacane at the dentist office.
While WDW AP benefits aren't great, it isn't quite this bad. FYI, here are the dining discounts.........................

10% off of food and non-alcoholic beverages during lunch hours, Monday through Friday, for Passholder and up to three guests at selected Walt Disney World resort hotel table service locations: Sand Trap Bar and Grill, Concourse Steakhouse, ESPN Club, Trail's End Buffeteria, Grand Floridian Cafe, Olivia's Cafe, Kona Cafe, Whispering Canyon Cafe, Yacht Club Galley.

10% off of food and non-alcoholic beverages during lunch hours, Monday through Friday, for Passholder and up to three guests at selected Epcot table service locations: Alfredo's, Biergarten, Garden Grill, Le Cellier, Chefs de France, Teppanyaki, Nine Dragons, Akershus, Marrakesh, Rose and Crown, San Angel, Coral Reef.

That is just the parks and resorts. In addition, there are discounts at many of the DTD restaurants.

In addition to dining discounts there are some DTD merchandise discounts.

rangebob
04-09-2003, 04:05 PM
Exactly my point. Most passholders live in Florida. Most of the time they go there on weekends. There are no weekend discounts available other than at DTD. That is also another reason that I love my Universal Annual pass. They don't care what day of the week it is. They give you a discount everywhere except for the food carts and some of them are starting to. You can use it at the resorts, the park and even city walk. I also forgot Busch parks don't care what day of the week it is either they give you discounts for food and merchandise every day. It is amazing that a park like disney charges as much as they do for the annual passes and then they don't get much in return. Its funny the other chains will even discount their annual pass.

DisneyKidds
04-09-2003, 04:30 PM
Most passholders live in Florida.
I'm not so sure about that. Maybe you are right - I don't know. It seems that a FL resident AP couple with the FL resident dining plan would get you all sorts of discounts. As a FL resident you can do pretty well. It is us poor schleps who don't live in FL that really suffer.

I agree, Universal's AP does seem to give better discounts.

doubletrouble_vb
04-09-2003, 05:11 PM
To be honest you can come up with any hypothetical situation that one is better than the other.

So to throw in my two cents!!!

If you are staying off site Universal/Sea World is the better deal. On site I'd have to go with Disney because it has a much larger array of things to do when you are trapped in Orlando without a car. And that plays into my visitation habits...if I stay off site the furthest I'll venture into Disney is one of the water parks or DTD. The issue of 2 to 3 Parks versus 4 parks is a bit of non-issue.

A group that has never been to either could see everything in Universal/Sea World over the course of week with a few repeats of things they loved. Same group going to Disney would not be able to repeat things they loved...and probably would not see everything.

Planogirl
04-09-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Testtrack321
I think we are trying to give value (not the type in the thread title) to things that are unique to each visiter.

Some people will find a better value at WDW with their pre-made travel and accomidations. Others will find Universal cheeper for their needs.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. One resort doesn't fit all so to speak. :)

I admit something else that appealed to me about Universal is that it's new and different for us. We've really done it all at WDW and it's mostly just repeats for us. We can easily see what we wish to see within a few days now and then we go back to old favorites.

I just can't see spending more or the same money for Universal with only two parks (one of which is just like our Six Flags here at home) but then again it depends upon the person, I personally am a Disney Freak, been going since 1971 and would go every week if I could, I also couldn't fathom being in Orlando and not going to Disney.
I can't imagine visiting Orlando without going to WDW either so I hope to do both resorts. I must take exception to comparing a Universal park to a Six Flags park. These two entities have NOTHING in common in my opinion. I wondered about that myself until I actually experienced the parks.

paulh
04-09-2003, 05:47 PM
dont forget to take in to account that usf parks have shorter hours than disney so the cost per hour should be taken into account
Paulh

TDC Nala
04-14-2003, 08:05 PM
Could anybody actually spend 8 days at Universal? I couldn't. Especially with the front of the line thing, I don't think I'd be interested for more than 3 days. (Yes, I've been to both parks.)There would have to be other journeys (in a car or a shuttle, that would cost) and other parks (add admissions costs). And if it were me, I'd be driving out to PI every night anyway since there's no Adventurers Club at Universal.

Sure, WDW is full of screaming 4 year olds. IOA is full of screaming 15 year olds. I think they cancel each other out.

HorizonsFan
04-14-2003, 09:18 PM
I should also add that the dozens of screaming 4 year olds also has a profound impact on my experience at a Disney park...Of course, that is really a problem with parents and not Disney
I don't think it's a "problem". I think it's just four-year-olds being four. :)
As for the teens at IOA, I see 'em every day at school; I'd rather deal with the four-year-olds when I'm on vacation.

ChrisFL
04-16-2003, 09:29 AM
Six Flags is NOTHING in comparison to IOA, they are TOTALLY different, and anyone who's gone there, be it a Disney fan or otherwise, would most likely agree.

dturner
04-16-2003, 10:27 AM
Gee, I didn't mean to make everyone get offensive regarding Six Flags and IOA. All I mean is that IOA has thrill rides like Six Flags, whereas Disney has themed rides which my son likes better. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that Six Flags is no where like IOA, Universal or Disney. Everyone can calm down now, sorry for saying that.

oelpa
04-16-2003, 10:34 AM
i love universal for Teenagers and Twens Universal is a much better value than Disney....well i visit disney every time when i am at USF but at Disney there are not enough thrills for me furthermore IOA is perfectly themed Disney cannot counter that at least not in Orland perhabs in tokyo with disney sea. And the tings at disney are starting to show wear they should but more money into maintenace.

Don't get me wrong i m not saying disney is a bad park and when i was a kid i loved disney...but they should start to invest more money ...and of course disney still is a good park compared to many others but i still think universal will get the lead soon

dturner
04-16-2003, 11:03 AM
OELPA: I agree with you that Disney should spend more on maintenance. I went last September and before that it was 10 years since I had been to WDW and the first thing I noticed was that the Buzz Lightyear ride (first ride I went on) looked awful, the cars you rode in were all scratched up and looked horrible and all I could think was "wow, Disney never used to even have a scrap of paper on the ground for 10 seconds before a sweeper would come by and pick it up." Didn't see any sweepers there when I was there last year.

I think the value lies in the person. Where someone likes Universal and IOA, there will be another that doesn't like thrill rides and likes Disney better and vise versa.

freediverdude
04-16-2003, 09:14 PM
Well, in my opinion, the two resorts are fairly comparable in terms of prices of the top-of-the-line resorts, ticket prices per day per different theme park (meaning one has less parks and that's why their multiple day tickets are cheaper), and both are nicely themed with modern amenities. The difference is that they really appeal to different wants, and so I don't really see them as in absolutely direct competition. Like Universal's latest commercials say, "Tired of pixie dust and fairy tales? etc etc". Universal is more about almost a "Vegas" style vacation without the gambling- luxury, glamour, thrill rides, the "wow" factor. Disney is more about dreaming, wishes, pixie dust, dreams coming true, tug at your heartstrings, and learning type of experience, as well as being more immersive and meant for a longer vacation usually. I think they tend to appeal to different people, or at least tend to be different experiences for the same people, so I don't think the choice is usually that of value, but of what type of experience you want. There are some people who think a theme park is a theme park is a theme park and will go to either, but I think people who go to theme parks all the time choose by what they want, and that's why I don't think they're really in direct competition a lot of the time. Just my two cents.

Planogirl
04-16-2003, 11:58 PM
freediverdude, your comments make a lot of sense in my opinion. We spent time at each place during our last trip and enjoyed both in different ways. It's hard to compare them because they are so different and both very good at what they do.

I think that the only time they might compete directly is when a traveler only has a certain amount of time and the funds are limited. Then if both types of parks appeal equally, the traveler would have to look beyond which is more fun or fulfilling. What would that person look at? Service? Theming? Value? It's hard to say.

YenSid1222
04-17-2003, 03:39 AM
First....shorter hours at UO? Has anyone actually looked at WDW's operating hours lately? On any given day the Magic Kingdom and USF are closing at exactly the same time, or maybe off by an hour. Disney parks haven't had the old extended hours in years. Now we see future world cut even further.

Second...This constant comparing IOA to a Six Flags park. Has anyone been to a Six Flags park in the last 5 years?????? Maybe you should take a return trip now, then come on down to IOA. I am sure that you will see a HUGE difference.

Third...We always here about too many teens at USF/IOA. Anybody noticed that that group has been disappearing like Elliot (Pete's Dragon) at the WDW parks? Maybe this is nice at the moment. BUT...that is a big problem down the road. Disney is about memories. We take our kids there because we want them to be a part of the memories we had growing up. For me that was the teen years as well. Back when Disney still had the lastest and greatest technology in attractions. When Disney was "cool" to all ages. This large demographic does not have those same memories of Disney. They have the image of Mickey planted on their breakfast cereal, orange juice, shopping mall and most anything else. As this group grows in the next few years...they will start to have kids. They, like us, will want to take their kids to the place where they have all their memories. And for many, that will NOT be WDW. Which, to me at least, is sad. But, as long as Disney comes closer and closer to just putting up whatever is cheap...that is the long term outcome. The latest thing from WDW that would appeal to teens is Primeval Whirl. An off the shelf coaster from Reverchon that is just like one at Kennywood (Pittsburg). But in this case, the Kennywood one has more elaborate theming. Did we ever think there would be a day that a park like Kennywood...a traditional, turn of the century amusement park...would not only out theme Disney (on an IDENTICAL ride) but have it up a full four years earlier? As Disney has downsized WDI in favor of this current "Off the shelf" trend. All of these Imagineers had to go somewhere. What do you think they are doing. The same thing they were, but now their ideas and innovations are available for the Six Flags of the world...and cheaper. Disney has not pushed the envelope in attractions since Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden Eye (Tokyo Disney Sea withstanding). This game has been up for a while...and more people realize that the USF/IOAs of the world are indeed comparable. And often cheaper.

As long as Disney continues to do much of nothing to upgrade...to innovate...to push the envelope. They will continue to lose ground. I hope that will change. But UO is providing what people currently want. Wasnt it Walt who said give the people what they want....

Lastly...why cant we like both equally? Both provide top quality entertainment. Different entertainment, but still top quality. We should hope for the success for BOTH. Nobody seems to think about the synergy the two companies create for each other in the Orlando market. This summer, many Shrek fans will make the trek to USF to see the new Shrek 4D...and while they are here, they will probably take a trip down to WDW. When Mission:Space opens...many will come back to Epcot (well, we hope at least) and after they do WDW, they will probably hit UO. The two companies counter each other nicely. And a little competition never hurts. Don't you think the highly publicized loss of 5 market share points last spring break period at WDW...while at the same time UO gained 5 market share points...helped us get Forbidden Mountain a green light? And when Disney takes some shares back that UO will do something else exciting...which will lead to another something great at WDW...etc...etc...etc.

I like to have the choice of entertainment myself. Dont we all get all of these cable channels so that when we are in the right mood, we can pretty much find the kind of entertainment we want? Think of your options with everything here in Orlando!

Thanks for letting me vent there!!!

DisneyKidds
04-17-2003, 08:26 AM
Sid (if I may call you that ;)), for the most part I agree with most of what you say. However, let's talk about this.......................
Disney is about memories. We take our kids there because we want them to be a part of the memories we had growing up.
You imply that Disney is destined for failure in the future because the current trend of teens preferring IOA means that when they have kids they will take them to IOA as that will be the place where their memories are. For some that may be true, but that thinking appears to discount the memories and attachment kids are developing at Disney from the time they are 2 to 12, and beyond. Sure, by the time many kids are 15 they may be too 'cool' for Mickey and may love IOA, but is that going to erase 14 years of memories and emotional attachment to Disney? I don't believe that kids memories from growing up are going to be confined to the last 3 or 4 years of their childhood. The kind of memories we want our kids to be a part of run much deeper than that. I do believe kids are developing those memories today.

I agree that Disney has issues and problems to address and needs to get back to developing attractions that have the wide appeal that many of the older attractions had. However, I don't think the fact that IOA has more thrill rides to attract teens means that that is where all those kids will flock to when they become parents.

sha_lyn
04-17-2003, 08:42 AM
All I mean is that IOA has thrill rides like Six Flags, whereas Disney has themed rides which my son likes better. Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that Six Flags is no where like IOA,
Sorry but IOA out themes disney. The "flow" in each area seems to make more sense at IOA, and the Que's at IOA and US are much more themed that WDW.
My first comment when walking into IOA was man this place out Disney's Disney.

ChrisFL
04-17-2003, 08:53 AM
Besides the fact that the rollercoasters are outdoors, I see nothing that makes six flags anything near IOA. All the rest of the attractions are as good as what Disney makes, and the theming in everything else is incredible. You just have to go there and see for yourself.

tiggerzpalz
04-19-2003, 11:43 AM
I find it remarkable that anyone can think the themes are better at IOA and US or that they flow better. How hard is to make Super Hero's flow? Please, there is nothing like the feeling you get when you see Main Street and then travel around the "magic" kingdom to different lands. And what about Epcot and the countries. Walking from "place" to "place." How could anyone say there is no flow? Each park has a different appeal but all in all there is nothing like seeing Cinderella's castle for the first time or watching my son greet Mickey Mouse. Each person has their own opinion and that is great but I will gladly take Disney anyday of the week over either of those parks. The memories, the spirit and the amazing experiences in Disney World are beyond compare.

ChrisFL
04-20-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by tiggerzpalz
I find it remarkable that anyone can think the themes are better at IOA and US or that they flow better. How hard is to make Super Hero's flow? Please, there is nothing like the feeling you get when you see Main Street and then travel around the "magic" kingdom to different lands. And what about Epcot and the countries. Walking from "place" to "place." How could anyone say there is no flow? Each park has a different appeal but all in all there is nothing like seeing Cinderella's castle for the first time or watching my son greet Mickey Mouse. Each person has their own opinion and that is great but I will gladly take Disney anyday of the week over either of those parks. The memories, the spirit and the amazing experiences in Disney World are beyond compare.

Ok, how about this...let's take IOA and the Lost Continent for example. As soon as you enter the bridge from Seuss Landing, everything is themed, and I mean EVERYTHING. The fences, the lights, the trash cans, even the AOL kiosk...to the medieval style games, and all the shops which sell some very cool items not found anywhere else. Through all of this is some great themed music throughout...and as you cross the bridge to Jurassic Park, you'll hear the music change, slowly, one instrument goes soft, then the next, then you simply hear a few drums, then just one. Then you begin to hear the JP theme start. It's all done brilliantly.

That's the kind of thing I like to refer to when I speak of perfect theming.

Dznefreek
04-20-2003, 10:47 AM
there is nothing like seeing Cinderella's castle for the first time If you really want to talk theming do you think a Castle belongs on a "Main Street."

sha_lyn
04-20-2003, 11:07 AM
That's the kind of thing I like to refer to when I speak of perfect theming.
Me too. Not to mention the piped in converstions you can hear in the little corners of the park

ChrisFL
04-20-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by sha_lyn
Me too. Not to mention the piped in converstions you can hear in the little corners of the park

Oh yeah, like in the Port of Entry, you can hear a poker game
going on upstairs to the right, it's funny to listen to.

There's also a armored truck outside of Dr Doom that has sounds coming out of it I've heard (But I haven't gotten to it yet to check it out, though I am going back this Friday !!! :D )

Universal put a LOT of subtle details into everything in the park, IOAcentral.com has a good write-up on each island and all of the little details.

FindingNemo
04-20-2003, 12:34 PM
Don't forget to listen to the litte 'twinkle-twinkle' sounds as you leave each island. I always keep an ear out for it, really neat! :D

Btw, I wish Universal would put that effort into USF. The music selections really puzzle me. :confused:

tiggerzpalz
04-20-2003, 02:49 PM
You mean does a castle belong in a place called the "Magic" Kingdom serving as the gateway to a place called Fantasyland. Uh, Yes, a castle belongs there. Where else would a castle be? And as for sounds when you cross into Adventureland there are tiki statues with drums beating rapidly in the background. Or futuristic laser sounds as you enter Tommorowland. Or how about in MGM Studios where the whole park is a giant theme and Hollywood theme songs are throughout. It is amazing to see the number of so called "Disney" fans oohed and ahhd by converstaion piped through a park rather than the detail put into everything at Disneyworld. Both parks offer alot to families and each one has different value, but come on the magic of Disney is just that. And no sound effects or super hero theme can compare to that.

ChrisFL
04-20-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by tiggerzpalz
You mean does a castle belong in a place called the "Magic" Kingdom serving as the gateway to a place called Fantasyland. Uh, Yes, a castle belongs there. Where else would a castle be? And as for sounds when you cross into Adventureland there are tiki statues with drums beating rapidly in the background. Or futuristic laser sounds as you enter Tommorowland. Or how about in MGM Studios where the whole park is a giant theme and Hollywood theme songs are throughout. It is amazing to see the number of so called "Disney" fans oohed and ahhd by converstaion piped through a park rather than the detail put into everything at Disneyworld. Both parks offer alot to families and each one has different value, but come on the magic of Disney is just that. And no sound effects or super hero theme can compare to that.

You missed my point, it's not the fact that the area has music, it's how it's presented, and how it gradually builds up into full song, not just on or off, or fade in or out, but it's an entire buildup from one drum, to more, to more instruments, to a full song.

What I fail to see is why you, like others, fail to give credit to anything without Mouse Ears on it. And what's wrong with super heroes? It's not as if the entire park is a super hero theme, geez.

freediverdude
04-20-2003, 04:04 PM
I feel like maybe I could post to help explain the difference in the two opinions here. I really do think both WDW and Universal are nicely themed, but I think the WDW people and the Universal people are on different wavelengths here. From what I'm hearing, the people saying IOA is better are basing it on physical attractiveness and physical theming, such as the way things look and what you hear, and see WDW and Universal as being in competition strictly on that- both with characters and rides, just comparing the look and sounds and service of each.
The people who prefer Disney, on the other hand, don't base their decision just on those physical and service characteristics. For them, the Disney characters and icons in the parks, such as Mickey Mouse and the castle, cause a lump in their throat every time they see them, and have a special meaning to them. For them, these things really touch their heart deeply, in a way that's hard to describe. This feeling about Disney and the characters I think is something you either have or you don't have, and it's hard to change. If you feel that a cartoon character is a cartoon character is a cartoon character, Universal may indeed be a greater value to you, as they concentrate on putting characters and movies into great thrill rides with great theming. Disney's "ace in the hole", if you will, however, is that to a lot of people, their characters are very special and mean a lot more to them, as well as the notion of "dreams really do come true" and "pixie dust" etc. In other words, meeting Spiderman or one of the Dr. Seuss characters doesn't have the same meaning to a lot of people as an experience of meeting Mickey Mouse does. And that's something that Universal just will never have, and can't compete with in that way, although they can and do compete as far as theming and technology and luxury. Is this making any sense, or am I just rambling LOL. Anyway, people who don't have that special feeling about Disney may eventually end up feeling that Universal is a better value, but Universal is going to have an awfully hard time convincing people who do have that special feeling about Disney to visit Universal instead.

ChrisFL
04-20-2003, 04:51 PM
Your post does make sense freediverdude, and I understand what you mean...

The problem is the future (duh!)

A lot of people have asked here, and on other threads, does Mickey Mouse et. al. have the same impact on kids now than they did 20 or 30 years ago? My guess is no, BUT on the same token, I would say that Jurassic Park is going to have an even shorter life-span unless Spielberg can do more with the franchise.

That's the thing, I'm surprised that King Kong has remained popular and recognizable for 80 years. With that in mind, it's no surprise that the USF ride finally closed.

While Disney's appeal has lasted for a long time, besides the fact that Disney's current investments into the parks are dwindling, I don't feel we're going to have another few generations of Disney fans the way they used to.

Whether or not they'll become Universal fans is yet to be seen, but as I've said before, Universal is on an upswing, Disney is on a downswing, and if continues for the next 10 years, then there is going to be much fiercer competition from Universal than there is now.

freediverdude
04-20-2003, 06:14 PM
Yes, I am afraid of that possibly happening. The way society keeps getting meaner, and everything aimed at fast money and just thrills, and nothing really meaning anything anymore, it scares me that the specialness of Disney may wear off for future generations, and that the value of a theme park will only be measured on how fast the roller coaster is and how luxurious the hotel is next to it. Not that there isn't a place for those things too, but that all the theme parks will seem alike. I'm not sure what the solution is, other than trying to set an example for our children and showing them all the different things possible.

tiggerzpalz
04-20-2003, 06:46 PM
Freediverdude: Excellently stated. You covered it all.

As far as giving US/ISO or anything without Mouse ears credit. Untrue. I did state that it does offer families other things. That many do like them and that both offer different options. I just don't believe you can compare themes or parks. Myself, my siblings (who range from 30-12) and our families love disney. It offers peace of mind away from the real world. You are immersed in a magical place. Something that just doesn't compare to IOA/US.

HauntedMansionFan
04-20-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by ChrisFL
Ok, how about this...let's take IOA and the Lost Continent for example. As soon as you enter the bridge from Seuss Landing, everything is themed, and I mean EVERYTHING. The fences, the lights, the trash cans, even the AOL kiosk...to the medieval style games, and all the shops which sell some very cool items not found anywhere else. Through all of this is some great themed music throughout...and as you cross the bridge to Jurassic Park, you'll hear the music change, slowly, one instrument goes soft, then the next, then you simply hear a few drums, then just one. Then you begin to hear the JP theme start. It's all done brilliantly.

That's the kind of thing I like to refer to when I speak of perfect theming. I've noticed the same thing at Magic Kingdom, right down to the music. Am I missing something?

ChrisFL
04-20-2003, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
I've noticed the same thing at Magic Kingdom, right down to the music. Am I missing something?

Hmm, I've never noticed that, or had anyone mention it before...

Anyway, if anyone is interested in the expansion I'm referring to,

Screamscape.com has a link to a pic of an aerial view of Univeral's 2,000 acres (minus the acreage sold to the Convention Center)

Here's the pic.

http://www.occc.net/roadway_dev.asp


Looks interesting, and a lot of land seems to be devoted to hotel space.

If I'm looking at it correctly, there are possibly going to be over 12,000 more hotel rooms in addition to whatever resorts Universal builds right beside the property.

HorizonsFan
04-20-2003, 08:09 PM
Hmm, I've never noticed that
That's because it's done seamlessly and has been since the early '70s. Next time you cross the bridge from the hub to Tomorrowland, pay close attention. That's one of the more noticable places. MK was also a very early adopter of digital music tracks; long before most of us had a CD player.
I would suggest the Keys to the Kingdom tour. You might see where some of those USF/IOA ideas came from...

HauntedMansionFan
04-20-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by ChrisFL
If I'm looking at it correctly, there are possibly going to be over 12,000 more hotel rooms in addition to whatever resorts Universal builds right beside the property. But it appears that only one of those areas is slated to be used for a Universal hotel. The rest appear to be the chain hotels.

Screamscape.com has a link to a pic of an aerial view of Univeral's 2,000 acres So if they do build another park in this area, that means you will have to take transportation down I-Drive? Now that IS really an immersive theme park experience. ;)

EUROPA
04-20-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan

So if they do build another park in this area, that means you will have to take transportation down I-Drive? Now that IS really an immersive theme park experience. ;)


I would say it was just as "immersive" as going from MGM to AK. ;)

DisneyKidds
04-20-2003, 09:15 PM
A lot of people have asked here, and on other threads, does Mickey Mouse et. al. have the same impact on kids now than they did 20 or 30 years ago?
While I realize that my DD's love for Disney might be slightly influnced by the warm and fuzzies the DW and I have for Disney, based on her utter love for, and enjoyment of, WDW I have to say that Disney IS having the same impact on kids as it did 20 years ago. My DD doesn't know corporations. She doesn't know Universal vs. Disney from a business perspective. She has no reason to be partial to one over another other than her enjoyment of the entertainment provided. She isn't into all the characters and personalities that are feature in the Universal properties. The Disney offerings stike a chord with her - just as they made music for kids her age 20 years ago.

pheneix
04-20-2003, 09:36 PM
>>>But it appears that only one of those areas is slated to be used for a Universal hotel. The rest appear to be the chain hotels.<<<

The angle that photo was taken from makes it look very deceiving. The easiest way to describe it is that the "North Campus" of Universal Orlando (the current section of the resort in the upper left-hand corner) is 840 acres by itself. With that in mind, take a look at the "South Campus" and "Future Hotel Expansion" sections of the map. That land is Universal's, and around FOUR of the current tracts of Universal land can fit in there. You should also keep in mind that a lot of the "dirty" work in resort building has/is being done by the Orlando Convention Center (another integral part of Universal's expansion plans), so the number of resorts that Universal/Loews will build is not as large as it could have been.

Just think, in 10-15 years, all of this could end up being part of "Universal Orlando." The teamwork Universal and the City of Orlando has done so far is marvelous, and the opportunities for synergy are just unreal. Need one of the largest convention centers in the world? Come to Universal. Want to play golf? Come to the Shingle Creek Golf Club. Like shopping? Come to International Drive (providing of course that Universal kicks out the riff-raff, although much of that was flushed out after September 11th), or maybe one of our Citywalk complexes. Coming down for a business trip? How about the Peabody, the Royal Pacific? Does something egyptian catch your fancy? We got that too. Heck, maybe we should just creep down a little further south and annex Sea World into the complex and add another theme park to the multi-day hoppers. Wow, we can have FIVE theme parks now!

What I have been describing are really just the pipe dreams of Universal executives and city leaders hoping for re-election, but the bottom line Universal doesn't need to build everything themselves to become the biggest resort in Florida. A cooperative effort between Universal, Anheseur Busch, the City of Orlando, and all of these little 3rd parties that aren't lacking in the luxuary department could yield a resort with all the amenities that WDW offers, and quite possibly even more.

Having 27,000 acres and a self-contained government is nice, but when the willpower to make something happen with those resources is missing it won't be long before someone else catches up with you.

HauntedMansionFan
04-20-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by EUROPA
I would say it was just as "immersive" as going from MGM to AK. ;) Your still on Disney property and still not in connection with the "outside" world. ;)

EUROPA
04-21-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
Your still on Disney property and still not in connection with the "outside" world. ;)


If you say so....

Something about bumper traffic, large buses, campers, gas stations to and from the theme park weather is be on Disney property or not does not scream immersive to me.

HauntedMansionFan
04-21-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by EUROPA
If you say so....

Something about bumper traffic, large buses, campers, gas stations to and from the theme park weather is be on Disney property or not does not scream immersive to me. Better then passing by pawn shops, discount hotels, factory outlet stores......