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curtisl
04-06-2003, 01:39 AM
Tonight we were at the perfect spot to view "The Kiss Goodnight" at the MK. We sat right in front of the Partners statue at waited for it after park closing. We saw it alright. We only heard parts of it though, because THIS STUPID GIANT RED VACUUM CLEANER WAS MAKING A TON OF NOISE RIGHT NEXT TO US!!! How romantic. Why do I even bother? Why does the MK always piss me off?

-Curtis

DVC-Landbaron
04-06-2003, 03:15 AM
Why does the MK always piss me off?Because they don't care!!

You can take all the e-tickets and comparisons of Universal and chicken fingers and anything else you want to throw into the mix and this very thing is by far the worst offense. It cuts to the very heart of the philosophy.

The "Kiss" IS the magic. It is the realization of pixie dust!! It's that little something extra that makes Disney - Disney! And they simply don't care enough about it to keep it special. They care more about a street sweeper's overtime. How sad!!

Hey Scoop!!! I thought you said these guys ‘Got It’!!??

I guess not! :(

raidermatt
04-06-2003, 06:07 AM
Maybe the vacuum guy was lonely, having no one to share the kiss with...

HB2K
04-06-2003, 09:26 AM
And they simply don't care enough about it to keep it special. They care more about a street sweeper's overtime. How sad!!
It doesn't even need to be an overtime sitation. Why not just schedule someone for second shift?

Because, as Baron points out, they don't care.

It sucks.

Luv2Roam
04-06-2003, 10:00 AM
we were both surprised to see on our last visit ---
Right before a parade (Spectromagic?), we were near the grassy area in front of the castle.
By the bridge leading into Liberty Square a CM drove a golf cart up, as far as he could without having to yell at people to get out of the way.
He dropped off another CM (woman) in a skin tight metallic leotard outfit.
We wondered what the heck she was. She bounded off.
Later -- we see her again. As a dancing butterfly in the parade. :rolleyes:
Isn't that what the utildors and back stage are for?

mcnuss
04-07-2003, 11:01 AM
We only heard parts of it though, because THIS STUPID GIANT RED VACUUM CLEANER WAS MAKING A TON OF NOISE RIGHT NEXT TO US!!!

Presumably this vacuum cleaner was being driven by a person? In my experience, if you go up to any Disney employee and politely explain the problem, they will respond. Not sure from your post if you tried this....but one time, I had a CM get in my DD's line of sight at the parade at Epcot. I sat there for a minute and stewed, then mentioned it. The CM not only moved, but moved DD to a better position and invited her into the parade.

mudhen
04-07-2003, 11:23 AM
I never minded the vacuums......WHEN THEY CAME
OUT AT MIDNIGHT, and you knew you had had a full
day AND evening at the Magic Kingdom.

HB2K
04-07-2003, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by mcnuss
Presumably this vacuum cleaner was being driven by a person? In my experience, if you go up to any Disney employee and politely explain the problem, they will respond. Not sure from your post if you tried this....but one time, I had a CM get in my DD's line of sight at the parade at Epcot. I sat there for a minute and stewed, then mentioned it. The CM not only moved, but moved DD to a better position and invited her into the parade.
While I applaud the reaction, why should a guest be put in a position where they would need to complain?

Why is the onus always on the guest to point out the problem vs the CM (and management) pro-activly dealing with the problem?

WebmasterCricket
04-07-2003, 12:44 PM
Ok, I'm the odd bug out here, but I'm going to blame the guests again.

If everyone cared enough about the parks, there wouldn't be the need for the vac's at all. If the litter was kept to a minimum, there would just be CM's with the little portable dustpans. It's possible they are trying to keep one part of the magic alive while stabbing another in the back.

Which is worse, junk all over Main Street or not hearing 100 % of the music?

Safari Steve
04-07-2003, 12:50 PM
FYI/OT just after park closing, Mickey shows up on the South side of the train station platform to wave and say good night.

WDSearcher
04-07-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by HB2K
While I applaud the reaction, why should a guest be put in a position where they would need to complain?
Because, oddly, sometimes the people who are doing a job (vacuuming) are just human. Perhaps this one vacuuming CM was thinking about something else at that particular moment, or was running late or early or just wasn't thinking. Surely we all have moments in our jobs where we miss what's going on around us simply because we're tired or we're preoccupied or whatever.

To expect every single thing and person and experience at Disney to be absolutely perfect, so that the guest never ever has a smidgen of anything to complain about is a great goal. But it's not gonna happen no matter how much management does or doesn't "get it." And it didn't happen in Walt's day either. So, knowing that ... let's pick our battles.

If the vacuuming CM was something that happened consistently -- if people were here complaining about it over and over again (and if it WAS happening nightly, people WOULD be here complaining), then yes ... blame Disney for not heeding guest complaints and fixing the situation. Write letters. Mount protests. But if this was a one-time thing -- if it had never happened to curtisl before in his multiple trips to the Disney parks -- what is the harm of simply asking the CM to turn off the vacuum? Because the CM may honestly not realize the impact of the vacuum noise at that particular moment.

:earsboy:

raidermatt
04-07-2003, 01:59 PM
Some of these responses really take the cake...

So now guests are responsible for telling CMs that they shouldn't run industrial machinery when entertainment is being performed?

I don't know any other way to term that other than ridiculous.

Well, ludicrous wouldn't be bad either...

This was not a one-time occurrence. The vacuum cleaners come out every night, well before the Goodnight Kiss. I guess some nights you get lucky and they've already passed by, or haven't come back around when the Kiss happens.

But the point is, this is a policy issue, not a renegade CM with an industrial strength Hoover issue.

Which is worse, junk all over Main Street or not hearing 100 % of the music? Neither are acceptable. How about dustpans to keep the "junk all over Main Street" under control (like during the rest of the day), then the Bradley Fighting Hoovers AFTER the guests leave?

JiminyMac
04-07-2003, 02:35 PM
So now guests are responsible for telling CMs that they shouldn't run industrial machinery when entertainment is being performed?

I think the point is that you'll get a lot further with a polite request than just sitting around brewing about it and then posting your complaint on a message board - not that guests are "responsible" for managing the CMs. If you think that this is a pervasive, policy issue, then make your complaint to management. If you think that it can be chalked up to human error, then make a polite request to the offending CM.

Why is the onus always on the guest to point out the problem vs the CM (and management) pro-activly dealing with the problem?

Because if guests don't point out that something is a problem, then Disney will not know. They can't know what they don't know, they need us to help them understand that this is not acceptable.

I know, an argument can be made that Disney should know better than to run vacuums during the entertainment, but this is a company you're talking about. It is not perfect, and it never was, despite the nostalgia of those who believe otherwise.

Last but not least:

Why do I even bother? Why does the MK always piss me off?

Why do you bother? If they aggravate you so much, why do you keep going back? Sounds like you are a glutton for punishment!

WebmasterCricket
04-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by raidermatt
So now guests are responsible for telling CMs that they shouldn't run industrial machinery when entertainment is being performed?

Now I didn't say it, but I will defend the person who did. Since there seems to be a pattern developing here with "Mike's Super Vacs", someone needs to complain or it will go on without hesitation. Unsaid=unchanged in this case. Common sense seems in short supply these days in the kingdom, so someone needs to belly up to the Guest Services desk and let 'em have it.

Originally posted by raidermatt
Neither are acceptable. How about dustpans to keep the "junk all over Main Street" under control (like during the rest of the day), then the Bradley Fighting Hoovers AFTER the guests leave?

Why are these "Zambonis of the South" even needed?

Does anyone even remotely agree with me about the quality of the current guest’s attitude toward park cleanliness?

JC

raidermatt
04-07-2003, 03:24 PM
I think the point is that you'll get a lot further with a polite request than just sitting around brewing about it and then posting your complaint on a message board - not that guests are "responsible" for managing the CMs. Nonetheless, this is a message board, and the poster was posting a message.

If you think that this is a pervasive, policy issue, then make your complaint to management. Maybe the OP did. I know I have, and so have other regular posters on this board. Again, this is where we discuss such things.

If you think that it can be chalked up to human error, then make a polite request to the offending CM. Again, the CMs do not hotwire the vacuums and sneak them out of the vacuum barn every night. It IS a policy issue.

Regardless, the op said nothing about blaming the CM. The blamed the "stupid vacuum cleaner" and asked why MK was p'ing him off. Nothing aimed at a CM.

Because if guests don't point out that something is a problem, then Disney will not know. They can't know what they don't know, they need us to help them understand that this is not acceptable. Again, many have. Still, that doesn't preclude anyone from being able to post about the problem here.

I know, an argument can be made that Disney should know better than to run vacuums during the entertainment, but this is a company you're talking about. It is not perfect, and it never was, despite the nostalgia of those who believe it otherwise. Nobody said it ever was perfect, and yes, they should absolutely know better. Yes its a company, a company run by people who do understand the impact, but either don't care or have made the judgement that the impact is not important.

Does anyone even remotely agree with me about the quality of the current guest’s attitude toward park cleanliness? I hear some people say guests litter more now, and others say its no worse than it ever was. (Its funny how some who say guests were cleaner in the old days accuse others of falsely believing Disney was better in the old days. It seems that subscribers to the "good 'ole days theory" like to apply it selectively...but I digress)

Either way, I don't care. If guests litter more now, then Disney needs to find a way to deal with it without penalizing guests who are trying to enjoy Disney's offerings. If that means bringing out an extra guy with a dustpan, so be it.

Do I think guests who litter need to be smacked around a bit? Sure. There's no excuse for it. I know I don't do it, and would say something to anyone in my party who I witnessed doing it.

That makes it even more frustrating when somebody tells me the reason I have a vacuum cleaner roaring through my Disney home videos is because some lout from Philly dropped his hot dog wrapper on the ground.

It can be addressed without bringing out Disney's 28th Mechanized Vacuum division.

HB2K
04-07-2003, 03:27 PM
Beacuse if guests don't point out that it's a problem, then Disney will not know. They can't know what they don't know, they need us to help them understand that this is not acceptable.

I know, an argument can be made that Disney should know better than to run vacuums during the entertainment, but this is a company you're talking about. It is not perfect, and it never was, despite the nostalgia of those who believe it otherwise.
Disney is (arguably was) a entertainment company. If they can't figure out that the Bradley Fighting Hoovers (TM RAIDERMATT) interupt someone's paid for experince, then Disney has greater problems.

The majority of people will not complain. They will just leave and not come back. It's just a matter of Disney finding their straw.

It's not the consumer's responsibility to inform a company of it's short comings. It's the company's responsibility to see & correct them, no matter what business you're in.

Because, oddly, sometimes the people who are doing a job (vacuuming) are just human. Perhaps this one vacuuming CM was thinking about something else at that particular moment, or was running late or early or just wasn't thinking. Surely we all have moments in our jobs where we miss what's going on around us simply because we're tired or we're preoccupied or whatever.
I don't know what job you're in, but if you consistantly make the same mistake (and this is a recurring problem) you won't be employeed doing that job very long.

It's simple. The CM should not be able to TOUCH the vacuum until the park is closed and the guests are OUT.

That eliminates human error from the equasion, unless the CM can't tell time.

To expect every single thing and person and experience at Disney to be absolutely perfect, so that the guest never ever has a smidgen of anything to complain about is a great goal. But it's not gonna happen no matter how much management does or doesn't "get it." And it didn't happen in Walt's day either. So, knowing that ... let's pick our battles.

If the vacuuming CM was something that happened consistently -- if people were here complaining about it over and over again (and if it WAS happening nightly, people WOULD be here complaining), then yes ... blame Disney for not heeding guest complaints and fixing the situation. Write letters. Mount protests. But if this was a one-time thing -- if it had never happened to curtisl before in his multiple trips to the Disney parks -- what is the harm of simply asking the CM to turn off the vacuum? Because the CM may honestly not realize the impact of the vacuum noise at that particular moment.
Disney should strive to be perfect. If you don't strive for it, you can't attain it.

That said it won't happen. Human error comes into play. But by striving to be perfect, you don't have policies such as this where the Bradley Fighting Hoovers parade down Main Street USA (Did they have those in the 50's? I didn't think so either) you are NOT striving for perfection....and thus, the guest is given a decision:

A) Tell a CM about it every time you encounter it
B) Don't say anything, and eventually you give up and stop coming back.

Based on the attendance numbers we can see what option more and more guests are choosing.

WDSearcher
04-07-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by raidermatt
Some of these responses really take the cake...
This was not a one-time occurrence. The vacuum cleaners come out every night, well before the Goodnight Kiss. I guess some nights you get lucky and they've already passed by, or haven't come back around when the Kiss happens.

OK fine. But where in the original post does it state this? For those of us who aren't in the park every night to witness this, how, from the original post, do we know that it wasn't just a bad timing fluke that happened to this one person?

I know that the vacuum cleaners come out every night, but on nights I HAVE been at MK during the Kiss Goodnight, my viewing and listening have never been impacted by them. In fact, I've never seen a vacuum cleaner until I'm walking out afterwards. So ... to me, this is an isolated experience. To you, I've apparently just been lucky.

Forgive me.
:rolleyes:

KNWVIKING
04-07-2003, 05:59 PM
.... been spending alot of time watching CNN ? War coverage ?

raidermatt
04-07-2003, 06:17 PM
.... been spending alot of time watching CNN ? War coverage ? How'd you guess?;)

OK fine. But where in the original post does it state this? For those of us who aren't in the park every night to witness this, how, from the original post, do we know that it wasn't just a bad timing fluke that happened to this one person? Sorry if that came across as jumping on you for not knowing... I sometimes forget that not everyone has read every discussion we have had on this board.

Yes, based on past posts from other posters, they do come out every night, or at least most nights, before the "Good Night Kiss". I was there last May/June on 4 different nights and they were out in the Plaza and on Main St. each of those nights within 10-15 minutes of the fireworks ending. I actually have the noise on one of my camcorder tapes.

Sandy541
04-07-2003, 09:18 PM
I have been to MK a hundred times. What kiss are you talking about?

curtisl
04-07-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by JiminyMac
Why do you bother? If they aggravate you so much, why do you keep going back? Sounds like you are a glutton for punishment!

I go because the good tends to outweigh the bad. I keep hoping that the incidents I have were a fluke and they will be gone the next time I go. Note that I've never felt agravated at any of the other WDW parks, only the MK. My 1st visit to the MK was great. My 2nd not so great and I discussed this with Guest Services and their response made me feel like an idiot for wanting to see CoP and Timekeeper open and to have only Tommorrow Land merchandise on sale in TomorrowLand instead of Pink Princess Stuff. I'm never speaking to Guest Services again. They were too condiscending. I will write this time though. This is the 1st time the vacuum cleaners directly disturbed a piece of entertainment, though they are very annoying in general. They don't do that at MGM, AK or EPCOT, why MK?

The CM was doing his job, there were dozens of them out right after the fireworks, I don't think they all set their clocks wrong and I don't blame them for doing what they are told. I also don't blame the CM in Tomorrowland for not having any Tomorrowland T-shirts, anything that actually says Tomorrowland or adult Stich shirts.

-curtis

joyceharris
04-07-2003, 11:23 PM
i have been with disney for a long time and have been to wdw so many times i cannot count.... so PLEASE pardon my utter stupidty but could some one please explain the goodnight kiss. i am flabbergasted that i do not know. i would appreciate it if my name is not mentioned(teehee) as i am a cm and my fellow cm's think i know everything there is to know about visiting the parks! good grief am i SHOCKED.
joyce:confused:

Planogirl
04-08-2003, 12:24 AM
The "kiss goodnight" is what the castle light display and music played just before closing is called in these parts.

I've been hearing the vacs for a long time just after parades. Maybe the shorter hours have led to the vacs being run around closing time?

raidermatt
04-08-2003, 02:01 PM
On nights with fireworks at least, it happens well after closing time(Maybe 45 minutes?).

crusader
04-08-2003, 02:57 PM
Do I think guests who litter need to be smacked around a bit? Sure.

Now how do you propose Disney go about doing this?

Disney should strive to be perfect. If you don't strive for it, you can't attain it.

Agreed. But come-on that street sweeper probably has done that job so many times the kiss goodnight only serves as a clock to them signaling their day is finally coming to an end. They are not remembering to smile to the guests anymore. They're done. I think we become intolerant more and more and forget we are dealing with people.

HorizonsFan
04-08-2003, 03:09 PM
the Bradley Fighting Hoovers
Disney's 28th Mechanized Vacuum division
the CMs do not hotwire the vacuums and sneak them out of the vacuum barn every night

Thank you Matt. I was in a lousy mood when I started reading this thread...
:jester:

airlarry!
04-08-2003, 04:58 PM
Despite complaints of cutbacks throughout the parks, Disney's main spokesman, Disney Information Minister Michael Ei$ner, maintained his increasingly bizarre stance that critics were losing the information war and dismissed a question about whether the cutbacks were important.

“The 28th Mechanized Hoover Division is getting ready to wipe the trash out,” he said. “All is under control. The critics are wrong, and the increased noise at closing does not interfere with our control of the happiness of guests in the parks.

"All of the alleged cuts we have made are actually increases in services or are business decisions intended to upgrade the guest's experience in other areas, like where we have sacrificed Mickey-head butter in exchange for more plush outlets at the parks."

airlarry!
04-09-2003, 03:38 PM
Rejecting overwhelming evidence to the contrary, Disney Information Minister Michael Ei$ner insisted that Burbank had the internet critics on the run.

"We are in control," he said. "They are in a state of hysteria. Losers, they that by complaining about butter and noisy vacuums and trying to distort the feelings of our guests on dinner reservations at firework shows and lack of queues, that they will win. I think they will not win, those bastions of evil."

Speaking Tuesday outside of his private jet minutes after showering in stockholder money, Ei$ner advised internet critics that they should "surrender or have their keyboards burned."

Another Voice
04-09-2003, 10:38 PM
"But come-on that street sweeper probably has done that job so many times the kiss goodnight only serves as a clock to them signaling their day is finally coming to an end."

And if the guy on the 'Jungle Cruise' boat has been around the phony animals so many times, can he stop telling the jokes becasue he's bored with them?

Customer service standards are not set by what an employee uses as a clock. They are set by what the paying customer wants.

I'm honestly shocked by the lengths to which people on this thread have gone to applogize for Disney. Do guests really have to tell City Hall about problems before they are fixed??!!! It's the guests fault that trash isn't picked up?

Maybe I should plan on making my own bed when I next stay at a Disney Resort.

KNWVIKING
04-09-2003, 10:50 PM
What time does the "kiss" take place ? I always thought the fireworks marked the close of the park. If the kiss takes place after the published park closing time,how long should should they wait till they fire up the hoovermatics ?

magicmaker
04-10-2003, 02:06 AM
The vacuum cleaners are used in response to the amazing amount of litter that gets deposited after the parades or Fantasy in the Sky. It would be impossible for the Show Keeping Cast Members to clean all of that trash in a quick manner and it is essential for it to be cleaned a) so you don't have to slog your way out of the Magic Kingdom through a pile of trash b) for safety so you don't accidentally slip on the garbage left in the road. You are welcome to dislike the vacuum cleaners, but they are not used during park hours to save on labor, but instead to quickly clean up the mess so as to return the Magic Kingdom to show-ready quality for the Guests.

Now... as to whether they should be run during the 3 minute Kiss Good Night (which is run 3-4 times after the official park close) is a reasonable point. Because the Kiss Goodnight can only be heard from the Hub down as far as The Plaza Ice Cream Parlor and Casey's Corner, it would make sense to write to Disney and relate your experience and suggest the solution (ie: stop the vacuum cleaners in the Hub area during the Kiss Good Night.)

You may feel it is Disney's responsibility to correct the problem before they are told about it by Guests, but clearly in this case Disney does not realize it is a problem or does not feel it has an impact on the Guest Experience. If you feel otherwise (ie: that is does impact your experience) let them know.

crusader
04-10-2003, 07:18 AM
They are set by what the paying customer wants.

Not always but in this case I think the topic is more in line with the policy of the parks. My point was not to excuse Disney as much as it was to give the worker a break if it was a matter of not following company policy. Why get the person who cleans up after us for some pittance of a salary in a bad situation with management?

I met a woman once who cleaned offices and was told a story of how she was docked two days pay because a customer complained about the scent of the cleaning solvent used. Management held her responsible. This is a person living paycheck to paycheck who lost 40% of her weeks salary because of complaining.

These people work hard and are payed virtually nothing to do a job. Who are we?

HB2K
04-10-2003, 07:24 AM
Maybe I should plan on making my own bed when I next stay at a Disney Resort.
Since we've got the Bradley Fighting Hoovers ruining the GNK, why not have the maids come into your room when you're waking up and start cleaning & vaccuming.

Hey, Disney would only be doing it because they were worried about you missing "Magic Hour". Right?

DoeWDW
04-10-2003, 09:56 AM
OK, the humor in this thread has kept me in stitches!! All the military references to those huge red vacs (frankly, they are large enough to suck up a small child!!) and AirLarry's spoof on Disney's Information Minister Eisner are priceless. Thanks all!!

As far as running the vacs during park hours, they ARE a quick way of cleaning up and returning Main Street to show quality. I did not realize, however, that the music for the GNK could only be heard in such a limited area of the Hub. I'll keep an eye out for this during our summer trip this year and will make my feelings known to Guest Services if the noise impacts my enjoyment of the GNK.

TheWho
04-10-2003, 10:23 AM
Things must be getting better at MK if the big complaint is the big red vacuums running at bad times.

d-r
04-10-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by mudhen
I never minded the vacuums......WHEN THEY CAME
OUT AT MIDNIGHT, and you knew you had had a full
day AND evening at the Magic Kingdom.

I think that Mudhen really gets to the crux of the matter here, and this is really the core issue, the hours.

I have always thought of those vacuums as a gentle sort of nudge, as in "OK, time to go, the show is winding down." They aren't going to come out and say "HEY! The park is closing! Time to go!" Actually, to me, there is even a weird sort of "Disney Magic" to being at the partner's statue when the vacuums are going - it is that Disney twilight time. I actually think of it as part of the show, in a weird way, of Disney World winding down for the evening. But Mudhen's point is correct; that feeling comes when you feel like you had a full day and evening in the park.

Now, we travel off-season, so I know that the hours are going to be shorter, but whipping out the vacuums is a little more abrupt at 7PM than it is at midnight. I wish they could do that with a little more delay. As MagicMaker points out, it should certainly start after the "good night kiss" spiel thing. I understand about quickly picking up after the fireworks/parade for the safety of guests coming through.

DR

HB2K
04-10-2003, 01:00 PM
Things must be getting better at MK if the big complaint is the big red vacuums running at bad times

If only this was the major complaint.

Take a look at some of the threads on this board.

The First Mechanized division of the Bradley Fighting Hoovers is just another issue being bandied about.

Take a look.

doubletrouble_vb
04-10-2003, 01:09 PM
I've seen vacuum complaints before and I think the best way to resolve them would be for Disney to choreograph the vacuum cleanup.

Put the CM's in skimpy maid costumes and have them dance and twirl as they whip their vacuum cleaners about. People would then look forward to the sight of the vacuum cleaners thus eliminating the complaint.

Or....dress up the vacuum cleaners so they look like chess pieces then play star wars music as they duke it out while sucking up the trash.

tonyk
04-10-2003, 02:25 PM
This thread has me wondering. MK closing is listed as a certain time for each day. Obviously, there are many people in a large park, so they don't "push" people out right at the posted time. But, what is Disney's grace period after closing, before CMs go around telling people it's time to go? Does it seem to be base on a certain time period or when the crowd is actually gone do they push along the stragglers? Shut off the lights or what?

TheWho
04-10-2003, 02:36 PM
That's right, I forgot about the reduction of the chicken finger.

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 02:53 PM
Well, for a 9:00 closing, fireworks BEGIN at 9:00. So clearly they do not expect anyone to leave before 9:10 or 9:15. In fact, they want everyone to stay, which is why they close the parks on these events.

By making it such a zoo to get out, more people will want to wait for the crowds to die down. No problem, says Disney, hang out on Main Street, or in the hub, or Plaza. Wait for the crowds to thin out. We'll even give you a "good night kiss" later on.

Of course, this means more people will go into the stores on Main Street and drop more dough, some because they would have anyway, but others because they are avoiding the crowds and get sucked in.

That's all well and good. (actually, its neither well nor good, but that's not the issue at hand).

But if they are going to use this strategy to increase merchandise and food sales, the least they could do is keep the Bradley Fighting Hoovers in the barn during this period.

CMs with dustpans could very easily keep us from having to "slog our way through piles of trash". Until the crowds start the thin, the BFH's aren't much faster than the dustpans anyway. In others words, most people have slogged their way through whatever trash there was before the BFH's have that much of an effect. Further, it is most certainly not a 'safety' issue. If safety really is the main concern, the fireworks shouldn't be held at closing, so the crowds could better disperse afterwards.

It is most certainly a cost issue. I guess one can argue that the cheapest way is the best way, but let's at least be honest about it.

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 03:03 PM
Things must be getting better at MK if the big complaint is the big red vacuums running at bad times.
That's right, I forgot about the reduction of the chicken finger.
And the shorter hours.

Closed attractions with no replacements.

Lack of major additions recently or in the works.

No nightime parade scheduled at all in May, including Memorial Day weekend.

Lack of unique merchandise.

In room package delivery changed to "resort delivery".

Then there's a whole truckload of more subjective complaints.

Hope that helps with the understanding, since the search function is disabled....

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 03:26 PM
Only have a second right now, but unless I missed a recent post or three, only ONE person said the chicken fingers were "twice as big as the old ones", which of course would mean Disney actually increased the portion size.

Others disagreed with this assessment.

The CM who was asked about the reduced number cheerfully explained that yes they had reduced the number as well as the french fry portion. No mention of larger pieces.

I think we need a bit more before we put any credence at all in the "jumping to conclusions" point.

Another Voice
04-10-2003, 03:33 PM
"...but then it was later reported that the now three combined chicken fingers were more chicken than the previous smaller four."

But the "rumors" are saying all food portions are undergoing a 5%-20% reduction in size in lieu of a price increase. Perhaps one should not jump to conclusions without looking at all of the possibilities (anyone weigh your salad recently)?

The problem with the vaccums isn't the labor savings - it's that Disney frankly no longer gives a chicken finger about their guests. How on earth could anyone think for the slightest possible moment that hauling out industrial machinery right in fornt of the guests is even remotely Magical®???

Perhaps we should rephrase it as "Where the Magic Lives - just don't expect to hear it".

YoHo
04-10-2003, 03:34 PM
Exactly, RM, the Chicken finger situation was never resolved in any reasonable manner.


I'm confused though RM. DEspite Landbaron's grousing about the magical our of Midnight they used ot give you for free after official park closing, Disney has ALWAYS kept Mainstreet open at least an hour later then the rest of the park for merchandising. This is not a new thing although the Kiss goodnight I think is.

Why is it Neither Well nor good?

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 03:34 PM
Ah crud, one more quick point...

I doubt the vacuum drivers only job is to drive the vacuums in MK.

Also, the vacuums do give the sense that you are to move out of the streets...either out the door or into the stores.

If reduced costs and/or increased revenue have anything to do with the reasons for this practice, do you REALLY believe that anyone from Disney is going to tell us that? Maybe we'll get a CM to "talk out of school", but if they don't, and instead say its for safety, or some other reason, that won't prove anything.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Baron did speak with a park manager about it... Perhaps he can re-state what he was told?

OnWithTheShow
04-10-2003, 04:24 PM
Voice,

I dont think it is that Disney Management no longer gives a Chicken Finger about the guests. It must be that Disney Management NEVER gave a chicken finger about the guests. They have been using these vacuums after parades and the fireworks since my first trip in 1983 and I have heard it goes back earlier than this. Also did anyone consider that the vacuuming going on during the kiss could have been a cast member that doesnt know better. Did you complain to guest services or better yet a manager (there are plenty on Main Street at that time of night). Believe it or not most WDW managers are good people. It is the higher ups you have to worry about.

KNWVIKING
04-10-2003, 04:33 PM
When did they start the Kiss ? Is this fairly new ? Also, will they have the Kiss for the general public on an E-night ? My point is that if this was an E-night evening,maybe the Vacula's are out asap to prepare for the E-night event. Just a thought.

DisneyKidds
04-10-2003, 04:45 PM
Exactly, RM, the Chicken finger situation was never resolved in any reasonable manner.
Just like Sadam's fate, we may never really know the truth........
They have been using these vacuums after parades and the fireworks since my first trip in 1983 and I have heard it goes back earlier than this.
I agree with you Show. I know I recalled seeing the BFH's on my earlier trips..............yet I believe the Baron insists they are a relatively recent phenominon.

Another Voice
04-10-2003, 05:40 PM
"Did you complain to guest services or better yet a manager…"

No I didn't. My previous experience with the Mother of All Vacuum Cleaners was not at park closing. It was only after the parks had been well cleared of guests and it was only the maintenance guys and us suits wandering around. Perhaps I have been fortunate to never have seen these on stage at WDW – but even "we've been doing it a long time" is not an excuse.

And I do not expect to have to inform anyone at Disney about something so mind-numbingly simple as this.

I do not expect to have to tell WDW not start painting in my hotel room at 3:00 am.

I do not expect to have to tell WDW not turn the work lights on inside The Haunted Mansion while guests are inside.

I do not expect to have to tell WDW to not mow the lawns at 6:00 am.

But suddenly I am now expected to tell WDW that running industrial machinery large enough to eat children is a bad thing to run while paying customers are in the park.

Otherwise it's all my fault and Disney is perfect as always.

Isn't that the real crux of the disagreement here?

KNWVIKING
04-10-2003, 06:13 PM
Personally, the vacaholics never bothered me but I can understand the irratation they could cause. But the part of this thread I find odd is the negative comments about informing guest services of the problem. If we as Disney's biggest fans see a problem, shouldn't we inform Disney of such. Isn't the first or second thread on this board a list of names and addy's of people we should voice our complaints to ? There are tons of "complaint" type threads on this board and many posts giving advise that the poster should contact so-and-so at such-and-such and complain.

I operate a service department. If one of my techs make a mistake and the customer lets me know, I can usually make it right and keep the customer as a customer. But I have had customers take their business elsewhere because they were upset, but since I never knew there was a problem I had no chance to fix it.

YoHo
04-10-2003, 06:24 PM
KNWVIKING, I don't think its negativity towards informing Guest services. In fact, I think that it's an excellent idea and there is no excuse not to. Oh, I know some will say, but I'm on vacation and going to guest services will ruin it, but these are some of the people that go to the World multiple times a year, so It's not like they won't have ample oppertunity to come back and maybe have their action improve their next experience.


No, the issue is that many, myself included feel its a shame, perhaps a tragic shame that we should HAVE to go to guest services. It is't that you shouldn't when something like this happens, but that something like this shouldn't happen.


So in short, I find it perfectly understandable. By all means go to guest services, Shame on you if you don't, but also, be upset that the situation came up in the first place.

magicmaker
04-10-2003, 06:31 PM
I suppose you are welcome to dismiss my post as some type of pro-disney propaganda, but my post was not intended to justify poor service but to give an explanation for the use of the vacuums.

Many on this board seem to feel the vacuums are a tool used after the close of the park, but they were insitituted (and are used) primarily for clean up after the large events (parades and fireworks). Despite comments to the contrary, it is not safe to leave the amount of waste that is deposited after large scale entertainment events in the street especially when so many guests are trying to exit the park.

If the Walt Disney World Resort did not care about the Guest experience they would simply leave the trash on the ground until the Guests had all left. It would be much easier to clean up the trash after the park is closed and would require less Cast Members. The intention behind using the vacuums seems to be based on the desire to restore the Magic Kingdom to show-ready appearance for GUESTS.

I'm a little disconcerted by the amount of uproar this is causing. This seems to be a relatively small problem that is only affecting a small group of people. That is not to discount the concern-- If you find youself in this small group of people that is having their final moments in the Magic Kingdom disturbed by the use of vacuum cleaners during the Kiss Good Night, I would suggest writing to Guest Communications to let your voice be heard.

However, I don't think this issue works as an example of a downturn in Disney's Guest Service.

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 07:29 PM
Either way, it's about high time that WDW management put a stop to these rogue vaccummiers.... I'll just go with this. I know I never saw them at Disneyland through the 70's and 80's, but regardless of when they began, they are bad show.

KNWVIKING, I don't think its negativity towards informing Guest services. In fact, I think that it's an excellent idea and there is no excuse not to. Correct, there's nothing wrong with going to guest services, though a customer does not need an excuse not to either.

But I have had customers take their business elsewhere because they were upset, but since I never knew there was a problem I had no chance to fix it. See, here is the crux of the problem. Its true, as a conscientous customer who cares about the health of WDW, one probably should formally lodge all complaints. However, no service company can afford to simply wait for complaints to come in and respond to them. We know that the majority of customers are not going to lodge a complaint. Its just a fact of human nature.

Therefore, a service company must do two things:

1- Consider a small number of complaints to potentially be the tip of the iceberg, and not dismiss them.

2- Understand what might be an irritant to their customers and seek to eliminate those things without being told.

In this case, we're not talking about something difficult to figure out. This isn't chipping paint in a remote location, or something like guests preferring hand blowers over paper towels (or vice versa). Anybody knows that the noise coming from an industrial strength vacuum cleaner is unpleasant.

Is there anybody who really disagrees with that?

If there are managers all over Main Street* at this time, certainly they have heard the things go by, and certainly they have been engaged in conversations when they went by.

Now, for the record, I don't really believe that WDW management, or even Burbank management, don't care at all about the guest experience. As magicmakers says, they could always just leave the trash be. What seems apparent, however, is that the company as a whole doesn't care as much about it as it once did. Maybe the budget is so tight for MK management that the only way they can meet their budget is by using the BFH's, even if they would rather wait until an hour after closing. Regardless, the problem exists.

Something that has been brought up before is that this doesn't seem to happen in the other parks.

AK gets pretty empty by closing, and MGM's event lets the majority of folks out by the gate. But the MGM exit that leads out onto Sunset gets very crowded too, and we have lingered in the shops for quite awhile and never seen the BFH's. Same with World Showcase after Illuminations. Maybe I've just missed them in the other parks?

Believe it or not most WDW managers are good people. It is the higher ups you have to worry about. I'm sure nobody thinks that all WDW managers are thoughtless, pointy headed, Dilbert-type managers (I know I don't). The frustration is more from the end result of many decisions and policies, and its understood that these aren't made by front line managers.


*Show, I'll admit, I haven't looked for manager types around MK's closing, but all that I've noticed is that the CMs who are in the middle of the people are mainly concerned with crowd flow (and rightly so). After that, the only ones I've noticed on Main Street (other than the cleaners) are the ones in the shops, who are all engaged with the many guests shopping at that time. I'll take note next time.

mudhen
04-10-2003, 07:47 PM
I think the reason people are so peeved about this "little incident" is that it seems to be one of many "little incidents"
lately.
Whether it's a reduction of park hours, bad show, increase in
ticket prices, penny pinching budget cuts, or one less chicken
finger, the perception is the consumer (guest) is being nickle and
dimed to death, and I tend to agree.

Now we hear about "rumors" of the water parks being closed
on alternate days, and even the theme parks possibly going
to six day per week operations (although I challenge any
business type to prove shutting down the Magic Kingdom for
a day is more profitable to the bottom line than packing it with
what, 30,000-40,000 people??)

Some of us only see this trend getting worse, not better. The
vacuum cleaner situation is just one more little "dig" in the gut.

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 07:56 PM
Now we hear about "rumors" of the water parks being closed That's no longer a rumor... According to Disney.com, for the first 3 weeks of May or so, both water parks will only be open on Wednesdays and Thursdays. One will be closed the other 5 days. I think its BB on Fri and Sat, and TL on Sun, Mon and Tue.

and even the theme parks possibly going to six day per week operations (although I challenge any
business type to prove shutting down the Magic Kingdom for
a day is more profitable to the bottom line than packing it with
what, 30,000-40,000 people??)
IF this comes to pass, I'm pretty sure MK will not close.

raidermatt
04-10-2003, 08:05 PM
Why is it Neither Well nor good? Sorry, forgot to answer this...

I didn't mean to say that the practice of keeping the shops open after closing is a problem. On the contrary, I think its great. You can do your shopping without missing open park time, or you can simply soak up Main Street. Wonderful!

My problem is with the scheduling of the evening's entertainment at closing. It creates a mob scene, with at least part of the intent being to force many people into the shops in an effort to avoid the herds outside.

Provide the option of hitting the shops, but don't try to get me to do it because I'm annoyed with the other option.

HB2K
04-10-2003, 10:09 PM
We ought to find out more by writing WDW or asking while we are there or a variety of other investigative options to make sure we aren't missing something here like the potentially premature chicken finger complaints. Granted, of the top of my head, I can't think of a good reason for doing this. That's why I've taken the time to send out some emails to friends at WDW trying to figure out if there is any logic behind this other than wanting to be done vacuuming 15 minutes earlier than before.

It might help us all if we took the time to seek out an explanation even if we don't think there could possibly be a good one.
It might put us at ease with our arguement, but don't you think there are large numbers of guests who have been turned off by the Bradley Fighting Hoovers and just don't bother to go back?

That's my point. I know a batch of people on this board will keep going back (it's evidenced by the apathy). It's the people we don't know about or hear from who makes me think Disney should be scared....and I don't know how you don't see it. You're call to tell a manager, write emails, etc may help you as an individual...but Disney doing it in the first place hurts the park's future...and wether you say something or not, that will affect you as well (6PM FutureWorld closing anyone?).

Disney's habits as of late has been to blame the guest will bite them in the long run. Period.

The answer to a park whose attendance makes it a ghost town by 4PM is not to close it earlier. The answer is to give people a reason to stay in said park longer.

The answer to cleaning up the trash is to have more people picking it up, not parading down Main Street USA with the Bradley Fighting Hoovers attacking anyone's hearing who comes within 10 feet of them.

The answer to decreasing numbers in your reservation system is not to close up hotels and force people to something they didn't want...the answer is to adjust your pricing and give people a REASON to stay in your hotels.

But hey, this isn't any company, it's Disney....so it's not their fault, it's the guests fault that attedance is down.

mcnuss
04-11-2003, 10:10 AM
...don't you think there are large numbers of guests who have been turned off by the Bradley Fighting Hoovers and just don't bother to go back?

No, I really don't. Most guests love WDW, are awed by the experience and would love to go back. But talk to your average guest (not the people like us who are clearly obsessed as evidenced by our addiction to these boards) and you will find that most of them are there for a "once in a lifetime" trip.

They don't notice the vacuum cleaners, for heavens sakes! You notice them bc you go all the time.

The answer to a park whose attendance makes it a ghost town by 4PM is not to close it earlier. The answer is to give people a reason to stay in said park longer.

I don't think you are wrong here, but you are not looking at the myriad factors which make this happen. Let's start with the famous, "it's the economy, stupid" (just quoting, not calling names...). Five years ago a person might have been in the same income bracket as today, but today their 401k is gone, their health insurance premium went up 25%, etc... Vacations like Disney vacations are not going to happen. Second, there are lots & lots of people afraid to fly still - between the terrorist "threat" and the war, they are nervous. Third, people are afraid that their airlines will go belly up and they will lose their fares. And so on.

I am not saying that Disney has not contributed to its own dilemma, but in order for the company, and hence the parks, to remain in existence, they must employ cost-saving measures. It is unfortunate but true. So do I prefer that they close FW early rather than closing the park entirely, yes!

DVC-Landbaron
04-11-2003, 10:19 AM
Because Mr. Baron goes to the effort to say that this is one of the two things that broke the Disney World camel's back for him.....and he does this just as he's heading out the door to WDW.Scoop,

Since I'm leaving....

Do you try to be this dense, or does it just come natural to you? ;)

See Ya!! I'll check in from WDW.:bounce:

mudhen
04-11-2003, 10:40 AM
Here's some cost cutting measures for Disney to
consider........
Dump Eisner and his ultra-ego.

Get rid of that sucking noise we hear, better
known as ABC.

And like a previous poster stated, instead of
cutting hours, give people a reason to stay in
the parks longer

mcnuss
04-11-2003, 11:13 AM
And like a previous poster stated, instead of
cutting hours, give people a reason to stay in the parks longer

But what if there simply are not enough people there? Isn't that the crux of the issue? The attendance numbers in general do not support your contention. Even if they had a great reason to be there longer, there still won't be enough of them to cover the park's costs.

crusader
04-11-2003, 11:28 AM
They don't notice the vacuum cleaners, for heavens sakes! You notice them bc you go all the time.

Well said.

I am still waiting for the offical ruling on the policy here. Anyone found out whether this really has to do with the Co.?

KNWVIKING
04-11-2003, 11:38 AM
What's the record for using the word "crux" the most times in one thread ?

YoHo
04-11-2003, 01:39 PM
I am still waiting for the offical ruling on the policy here. Anyone found out whether this really has to do with the Co.?

Dude, you're about 2 years too late for this question. What it has to do with the company I'll let others Discuss, but it is the bread and butter of this DIScussion Forum. It's what we do, IT's what we LIVE for.

raidermatt
04-11-2003, 02:16 PM
What an interesting phenomenon, indeed.... Maybe interesting, but unless we are now calling the good Baron a representative sample of WDW's guests unto himself, his vacation habits are hardly a logical reason to believe nobody else is going back because of this.

But even that misses the point.

When you nickel and dime customers, some of them get fed up. But when you look at each individual nickel and dime, by themselves, none look significant enough to cause a guest to become "fed up".

They don't notice the vacuum cleaners, for heavens sakes! You notice them bc you go all the time. Can only speak for myself on this one, but I don't go all the time.

But what if there simply are not enough people there? Isn't that the crux of the issue? The attendance numbers in general do not support your contention. The contention is that in the long run, cuts, reduced services, and irritating vacuums, DO have a negative effect on attendance. Of course there are other UNcontrollable factors, like the economy and tourism in general. However, the belief of some is that Disney's position that 100% of the attendance decline is due to these uncontrollable factors is incorrect.

and you will find that most of them are there for a "once in a lifetime" trip. Actually, WDW is very reliant on repeat visitors, though many do not visit every year.

airlarry!
04-11-2003, 02:36 PM
Let The Statue Fall

Friday April 11 2003
Orlando (DIS News Service) - As unhappy guests scarf down Dole Whips deep in the heart of Adventureland right before the scheduled 2:00 pm closing time, and members of the Car Three Division, Chicago Brigrade, land at the renamed LandBaron International Airport, the Disney minister of information, Michael Ei$ner, insists that rumors of a Rumors Board presence in the city are false.

"I know inform you that you are too far from reality," said Ei$ner, barely audible over the sounds of the Bradley Fighting Hoovers sweeping up a litter pile not seen in Walt Disney World since angry mobs tore up annual passes in front of the statue of Ei$ner overlooking the SunBank ATM on Main Street when Mr. Toad's Wild Ride was closed down. "There are no Rumors Board infidels in Orlando. Never!"

Many in the parks disagreed as they watched the LandBaron and his family enjoy their day in the parks immensely, but with a careful eye to any 'cutbacks' or omissions of 'show.'

With LandBaron nearby rifling through an entire selection of gifts at one of the ubiquitious shops along Main Street desperately looking for anything un-Plush, Ei$ner stood calmly a couple of hundred yards away, on the roof of Train Station telling guests that none of this was happening. Smiling extra-wide, he said: "Don't repeat the lies of the liars."

raidermatt
04-11-2003, 03:15 PM
:teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

HB2K
04-11-2003, 04:47 PM
Blah, blah, blah. Now. Don't take that the wrong way, my friend. It's just that for a guy who says he's not going back, you sure seem to spend a fair amount of virtual time posting some version of that statement on every thread. Give yourself a break from the heartache. Try knitting or some other less stress-inducing hobby...
LOL....

Could it be the same sentiment finds it's way into most of my posts because it's prevalant to just about every post lately? The only news coming out of Disney is how they're cutting this, cutting that, cutting from things that haven't even been formally announced yet....

My last statement about this thread....

I don't think anyone is leaving ONLY because of the 3rd mechanized devision. But I do think that people are leaving because of the disregard shown by the company to their guests via policies such as this (running the vacs through the GNK, etc). Matt summed it up quite well.

btw...Do you work for Disney (theoretical...I know the answer)? You're post mimic's Disney's attitude towards it's guests pretty well.

If you don't like it, then leave.

OK Scoop. Done.

Judy from Boise
04-14-2003, 05:30 PM
I just returned from a conference in Orlando, and was at MK on Sat from 3 pm till closing. I haven't been to MK since the first DIS-Con.

The thread of this title jumped out at me......because I was shocked when I settled myself on a bench to watch the Castle colors and let the crowds die down.......when my "postcard moment" was interrupted by a huge you Kirby ! I was very dissapointed, and on the 5 hours of flying back home I came to the conclusion that for the same flight time Hawaii is in our family vacation future.

The other dissapointing thing I found at MK was a lack of single riders lines, the 3 pm parade, and the fireworks since they can't hold a candle to "believe" at DL.


so to recap:
1. It has been a few years since I was at MK
2. I immediatley noticed the sucking monsters
3. It has all ready effected my future plans on returning to WDW

vanreg
02-06-2007, 04:02 PM
We just got back from MK and was very annoyed by the giant vacuums!! Told my wife I was going to post a complaint about it and she says I would be the only one!! We were there for the fireworks 3 nights, right after the fireworks each night was an army of the biggest, loudest vacuums I have ever seen!! They ruined the evenings for me. We usually slowly exit the park, maybe shop alittle, humming to the beautiful music that is still playing over the loudspeakers (is this the kiss goodnight everyone is talking about?). i'm usually humming that music for a few days afterwards!! This last trip I couldn't even hear myself think!! We had to yell at the kids so they could hear us. It was actually a relief to get on the bus because it was quiet.

BRERALEX
02-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Just like Sadam's fate, we may never really know the truth........


Ha Kidds!!!!!! Your wrong!

rubberband1293
02-06-2007, 09:44 PM
This topic is indicative of the very reason I love these boards - 72 posts on the topic of vacuum cleaners/sweepers cleaning the streets at closing time! :rotfl2: Thanks to everyone who contributed, bickered, got offended, fired back, bashed (the CM's, cleaning crew, leadership, customers, shows, and the World itself) got off-topic momentarily and rejoined the theme - after the day I had today, I really needed to laugh. :rotfl:

Mickmse2002
02-07-2007, 12:04 PM
I can't believe I read this whole thread.......I have no life.

All Aboard
02-07-2007, 01:06 PM
I'm pretty impressed by vanreg's literal interpretation of the "please use the search function" rule. Dude found a four year old thread to voice his concerns in.

Another Voice
02-07-2007, 02:02 PM
Dude found a four year old thread to voice his concerns in.
What's even more depressing is that four years later people have grown to accept the Vaccums of Pain as just part of the "WDW experience". The concept of "show" has died.

raidermatt
02-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Yes, vanreg deserves mad props for his use of the search functionality.

As for the Bradley Fighting Hoovers, yes they still annoy the heck out of me too. Our last trip was July/Aug of last year and they were out in force, long before closing actually, each night we were in the MK.

I even literally saw a couple of kids scramble out of their path to avoid being sucked up. They weren't in any real danger of course, as I'm sure the CM would have stopped. But the vacuum had approached to within about 10-15 feet or so as they were sitting on a Main Street curb. I only took note of it because I remembered all the old comments about "small children getting sucked up and never seen again."

BRERALEX
02-07-2007, 03:34 PM
Props here as well for using the search function.

EUROPACL
02-07-2007, 04:26 PM
What's even more depressing is that four years later people have grown to accept the Vaccums of Pain as just part of the "WDW experience". The concept of "show" has died.

I expect to hear any day now of a Splash Mt CM in full costume working Test Track while a headless Tigger sits on break in front of the castle eating his/her $10.00 2 finger chicken strip meal.

Another Voice
02-07-2007, 06:40 PM
I have even worse fears.

That like someday Disney will have cheesy "auto stunt" shows, that they'll rip down the classic resorts to so they can build those stupid timeshare condos, that one day you won't even be able to swim in the lakes becasue of pollution.

That's almost as bad as a recurring nightmare I have where I'm trapped in a giant four story warehouse with giant bowling pins and yo-yo's while some evil accountant screams idiotic phrase like "Get Your Grove On" and "Do the Funky Chicken".

<shudder>

cristen
02-07-2007, 07:40 PM
That is no recurring nightmare AV, that was one Sat night you had too many rumrunners with GC.

EUROPACL
02-07-2007, 11:07 PM
I have even worse fears.

That like someday Disney will have cheesy "auto stunt" shows, that they'll rip down the classic resorts to so they can build those stupid timeshare condos, that one day you won't even be able to swim in the lakes becasue of pollution.

That's almost as bad as a recurring nightmare I have where I'm trapped in a giant four story warehouse with giant bowling pins and yo-yo's while some evil accountant screams idiotic phrase like "Get Your Grove On" and "Do the Funky Chicken".

<shudder>

Ok you win. :) but in your nightmare while stuck in the warehouse Motel 6 does Mickey place a wooden block between your legs and club you in the ankles with a hammer too?