Do you feel that the Swan and Dolphin fit the "theme" of the Epcot-resort area?

[chrissyk]

My husband and I disagree on this subject, so I'm soliciting the expert opinions of other disboard posters;) Do you feel that the exterior of Swan and Dolphin hotels fits the "theme" of the Epcot resort area? I say that they do, since they have a "beachy" look to them, which fits the ocean-front theme of the Disney-owned resorts in the area. IMHO, the S+D are more "themed" than some Disney-owned resorts such as the Contemporary (which is a very nice hotel BTW!). My DH, on the other hand, feels that the S+D are boring buildings w/o much of a theme to speak of. We started debating this subject when I mentioned that I'd read on these boards the theory that Disney may buy up the S+D when their leases expire. My DH thinks that if Disney ever did buy these 2 properties, they'd knock them down to put up more "themed" hotels :eek: I've gone so far as to call my DH a "Disney snob" because I think that the basis of his feelings on this subject is that they hotels are not Disney-owned:p So, what is your take on the matter?

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by chrissyk
We started debating this subject when I mentioned that I'd read on these boards the theory that Disney may buy up the S+D when their leases expire. My DH thinks that if Disney ever did buy these 2 properties, they'd knock them down to put up more "themed" hotels :eek: I wrote "FEAR", not theory! (LOL). :p It was my "worst FEAR" Disney would buy these two giants and try to Dominate all "On-Property" resorts. ROTFL...as the chance of this actually happening..."is slim to none". Starwood has a LONG, LONG lease on these properties (which are only 12 years young, and NEWLY RENOVATED to the tune of more than 75 million dollars!) Whew...that's a LOT of Greenbacks to throw into something which will be "knocked-down" for a Disney-themed/owned RESORT (not hotel). So, tell your DH to relax. The WDW Dolphin/Swan are fixtures in the Epcot resorts landscapes...for a long time to come! ;)

[Fantasia Sam]

LOL firstly I didn't even realise there was a theme to the EPCOT resorts ;)

I don't think that the S&D are boring buildings far from it - especially as they seem the buildings that most people associate WDW with being such big landmarks.

I've stayed at the Yacht Club and the Swan and I like them both but I do sometimes prefer staying on WDW property because of the charging facility across the "World"

I agree with you Chrissy they both have beachy themes to their look. It's got to be said I like and would stay at all the EPCOT resorts.

I don't htink I've helped much have I ;) ?

[Blondie]

This is one of my favorite photos of the Dolphin!

http://worldzone.net/anime/butterflae//dolphin3.jpg

How can anyone say there is no 'theming?' It's beautiful!

As far as 'fitting in' with the other Epcot Resorts, I guess that is a matter of opinion. Disney is a hodge-podge of different themes and styles.

[Claudia Kellenberger]

They absolutely have Disney Theming !! I have stayed

4 times at Dixie Landings ( now POR )
1 time at The Beach Club
1 time at Wilderness Lodge
2 times at The Swan

Not one of the Epcot resorts have the exact same theming in the first place. They are all different in their own way.

[txdznydude]

I'm with your husband on this one. I do not like having the S&D there! I do not like seeing them from inside Epcot! They totally spoil the theme and atmosphere of the Boardwalk, Yacht & Beach resorts. I like the S&D, it just should have been built some place else! That's my two cents.

[dahess]

We love the Swan/Dolphin. We have never stayed at any Disney hotel.

[PamNC]

Interesting question - maybe even good enough for the debate board.

Our favorite resort is YC/BC. We love the Epcot Resort area. I think the Swan & Dolphin are beautiful resorts. And, yes, I think they fit into the theme just fine - maybe not "technically" or exactly. Let's call the area's theme "seaside" - that's a good word for it. Dolphins are in the sea. Swans swim in water. They both have a "beachy" feel. I think it works. Maybe a good way to state it is to say the S/D compliment the other Epcot Resorts. Not to mention they are so beautiful.

I would love for Disney to purchase them, and if they did I doubt they would tear them down.

PamNC

[Minnie's Mate]

The Disney owned Epcot resorts are interpretations of the historical seaside resorts of the northeast. The S/D are post modern interpretations of the seaside resort. There are many details in the S/D that relfect that deco feeling.

I think if you look at Florida beach resorts, you will see that there is no one style that is consistent with the other resorts of a particular beach, with the possible exception of Southbeach's art deco district.

Also, txdznydude, some may feel that the S/D are out of place, but fact is, they were there first.

[lenny l]

I'm going to stay at the Swan later this year because it's in a convenient location & I love the look of the new renovated rooms, but I have to say, from the first moment i swa the S&D I thought they were both really ugly!

Sorry! just my opinion! But it doesn't stop me staying there!

[AmyA]

Chrissy, I agreed with your Dh until I saw the S&D in person. In pictures they look gaudy and obnoxious (IMO ;) ), but IRL they are gorgeous and fit in with the area theme. I can't imagine the Epcot area without them.

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by Minnie's Mate
Also, txdznydude, some may feel that the S/D are out of place, but fact is, they were there first. YOU GO MINNIE! ;)

[Disney Doll]

I think the S&D are great. They don't exactly fit in with the old-fashioned seaside theme, but they are art deco beachy enough to work.

I have to tell you....we stayed there for 3 days in Janaury with their nurse/teacher/govt. employee rate which is $129/night, and it was great!!!! If you fit into one of those categories, that is a great deal, for a really nice hotel.

[PhilipP]

I've always felt they looked a bit out of place. More Vegas than Disney IMHO. Not saying I hate it or anything and I definitely will not rule out a stay there.

[jgates]

My first instinct from the road was ugly!!!! Up close they are quite beautiful and I am overjoyed that I was able to experience a wonderful stay there.

My stupid counter below is not moving fast enough for me!!! I can't wait to go back.

[ducklite]

The Swan and Dolphin were there years before the BW/BC/YC.

At the end of the lease terms they could choose to not renew. But they wouldn't need to buy them...that's kind of a ridiculous statement, as they already own them.

Disney built those properties around the time they opened Epcot. They used to run a tram back and forth between them and the rear entrance to Epcot. That's why you still see the tram station when you enter and exit through the International gateway.

After they opened the YC/BC they discontinued tram service, most people just walked anyway, and those that didn't want to walk could take the boat, which cost less to operate.

Anne

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by ducklite
The Swan and Dolphin were there years before the BW/BC/YC.

At the end of the lease terms they could choose to not renew. But they wouldn't need to buy them...that's kind of a ridiculous statement, as they already own them.

Disney built those properties around the time they opened Epcot. They used to run a tram back and forth between them and the rear entrance to Epcot. That's why you still see the tram station when you enter and exit through the International gateway.

After they opened the YC/BC they discontinued tram service, most people just walked anyway, and those that didn't want to walk could take the boat, which cost less to operate.

Anne Sorry, Anne...but the Swan/Dolphin are only 13 years young this year! They were opened in 1990. EPCOT opened in 1982. Disney did not "build these properties around the same time they opened Epcot." Also, yes...there was a tram for a VERY brief period of time. The TRAM GATE is still there and used by Disney Hotel and Park operations for Vehicles, etc. There was also a Double-Decker bus which used to operate INSIDE EPCOT and take people around the "WORLD SHOWCASE", (it was an English bus). It stopped running about 8 years ago after an accident w/a pedestrian. Nothing serious...just too much liability w/all the foot traffic. It certainly was FUN, though. As for the "ownership" of the Swan/Dolphin...it's NOT Disney. These are NOT DISNEY-OWNED/BUILT properties. They were initially built by a DISNEY-APPROVED Developer, but this contract/association was promptly terminated with the arrival of the new management team @ WDW (Architect Michael Graves DESIGNED these two resorts...how much more DISNEY can you get?!? LOL). Starwood acquired the management of these two companies (Sheraton and Westin) in the year 1999. Since then, they have "poured" money into building a new convention center, and renovating both of these resorts. Certainly, they are ON disney-owned property, but so is half of ORLANDO! LOL. Disney is their "LANDLORD" (& Their future is pretty secure). Please read below for details:

* A major innovation for the Florida complex, compared to Disneyland, was the addition of Disney-owned and operated resort hotels. Three resorts were included in the first phase of construction, the Contemporary, the Polynesian, and the Golf Resort (now known as "Shades of Green", and available only to Department of Defense and Military employees.) A Disney-owned and operated campground, Fort Wilderness, also was included. Even with the four resorts, the Disney Company was concerned about the lack of hotel rooms in the Orlando area in the early 1970's. To avoid having an empty Magic Kingdom just because of a lack of rooms, the hotel plaza was built. Seven hotels were built and are operated outside of the Disney Company, even though the hotels are actually located on Walt Disney World property.

Soon after the opening of WDW, Roy Disney retired and the Disney Company was taken over by Card Walker. Walker ran the company until 1984. The company languished during those years. Almost no new attractions were added to the parks and the animation studios fell into a doldrums of epic proportion. Disneyland and Walt Disney World became museums that displayed the history of Walt Disney.

As the Disney Company wilted during the Card Walker years, takeover rumors became the rule of the day. Finally, in 1984, Walker stepped down and, for a very brief time, Walt Disney's son-in-law, Ron Miller, was made chairman. Miller would probably have proven to be well able to bring the company back to it's former glory, but before Miller could take action, an investor take over coup (which included Roy's Son, Roy Disney, now the Vice-Chairman of the Walt Disney Company) installed Michael Eisner in the Chairman's seat. Under Eisner's direction, the company (and the theme parks) began a strong rise to their current pre-eminence in the entertainment industry.

One pot of gold that Eisner soon decided to mine was the themed resort business. Walt Disney World was originally built with several themed resorts. The Contemporary, Polynesian, and Fort Wilderness campground were all very unique in their day....and remain so today. However, in the early 1980's, as EPCOT moved from plans to construction, the Disney Company struck a deal with a developer to build additional hotels on WDW property. In fact, the developer was granted rights to all future resort hotel construction at WDW. The Walt Disney World Swan and Walt Disney World Dolphin hotels are the result of that deal...hotels that are smack in the middle of WDW property but are not operated by the Disney Company. When the new management team took over that decision was quickly overturned and the Disney Company began to develop and built and operate it's own themed resort hotels.

The number of Disney-owned and operated resort hotels has grown considerably since that time. Now it is also possible to stay at the Grand Floridian, Yacht and Beach Club resorts, Boardwalk Inn and Suites resorts, Caribbean Beach, Dixie Landings, Port Orleans, Old Key West, and the All Star Sports and Music Resorts.

Each of these resorts is themed, much like the various areas within the theme parks. When you walk into Dixie Landings, for example, you feel like you're in the old ante-bellum South. The Caribbean Beach Resort's atmosphere reeks of steel drum music, Spanish-influence architecture, and the white sand beaches of Trinidad and Tobago. At night time, the torch-lite walkways of the Polynesian resort highlight the south seas feel of that wonderful resort.

The Disneyland Hotel was purchased outright by the Disney Company in the early years of the Eisner era. Although not themed, as it's Florida counterparts are, the Disneyland Hotel remains the companies West coast flagship resort, and boasts direct monorail transportation to Disneyland.

[MelissathePooh]

When did YC/BC open up - I know it was the year before GF - I was thinking it was 88 or 89 which would make them older than S/D if they opened in 1990- which I know was open just a little before YC/BC - not years before I don't believe. What are the official dates? Anyone know?

Anyway I'm with the OP's husband - being a disney purist I have always detested the S/D - not because there is anything wrong with them exactly - aside from their location. They would be fabulous hotels anywhere else, but they stick out like sore thumbs. Heck I had a hard time getting used to YC/BC - as they were not MK resorts.

Anyway - I have stayed at the Dolphin and was not very impressed - it was a nice hotel - but nothing special. They are convenient though. I do like Kimonos & Palio, however, very much over at Swan.

Like I said they are fine hotels, but I believe they belong someplace else and always have. Because they have offered rates close to moderate prices (rack rate that is) with the convenience of a deluxe resort many people have become partial to them. But do they fit Disney - not in the least IMHO. They are themed like a nice hotel - thats fine, but not Disney. You don't get the same ammenities as Disney properties (room charging, disney toiletries, etc...) but some people may not care. We were over run by conventioners during our stay at the Dophin - which can possibly happen at other Disney resorts, but had never happened to us. We had to fight (and lost) about the resort fee.

But for some people they are economical ways to experience the convenience of a deluxe resort - just missing some of the Disney perks. Again some people may not miss those perks but I did.

Melissa

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by dreamflight99
"Architect Michael Graves DESIGNED these two resorts...how much more DISNEY can you get?!? LOL." As I previously posted....these are two buildings were both Designed by a DISNEY ARCHITECT (MICHAEL GRAVES), and built/constructed by DISNEY DEVELOPERS. How MUCH more DISNEY...can you possibly GET?!? LOL...actually ROTFL! :p :p :p

[Demosthenes]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh
When did YC/BC open up - I know it was the year before GF - I was thinking it was 88 or 89 which would make them older than S/D if they opened in 1990- which I know was open just a little before YC/BC - not years before I don't believe. What are the official dates? Anyone know?



The GF opened in august of 1988, the YC/BC on November 5, 1990, and the Swan opened in January of 1991 with the Dolphin opening about 6 months later. The tram ran until BW construction began in1995 to the international gateway which opened at the same time as the Y&B Clubs.

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by Demosthenes
The GF opened in august of 1988, the YC/BC on November 5, 1990, and the Swan opened in January of 1991 with the Dolphin opening about 6 months later. The tram ran until BW construction began in1995 to the international gateway which opened at the same time as the Y&B Clubs. Just a bit off here, too. The WDW Swan and Dolphin opened the same year as the BC/YC...1990. (Well, "technically" opening BEFORE these properties.

*From the September 27, 2002 print edition
Tourism world.

A big chunk of the $75 million upgrade at the Walt Disney World Dolphin and Swan hotels is being spent where guests will appreciate it most: the hotel's 2,267 rooms.

Architect Michael Graves has been commissioned by the hotel's owners to redo the room designs with more of an emphasis on comfort and functionality than the original decor, which the designers called whimsical.

Located in the middle of the Epcot Resort area (opened since 1990), the pair of properties appear to be part of the Disney family to the casual eye. Their colorful designs include giant namesake cartoon-like figures atop the buildings.

But these are not Disney hotels. They are operated by Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. under the Sheraton (Dolphin) and Westin (Swan) brands. They are not owned by Disney, either. The owners include a partnership between MetLife Inc. and the Tishman Hotel & Realty Corp., a subsidiary of Tishman Realty & Construction Inc., the business that managed the original Epcot construction project.

How did they get inside the Disney gates when all the competition — Marriott, Hilton and Hyatt — have to settle for more remote locations? When the giant Tishman hotel complex was conceived in the early '80s, it was located elsewhere: the Lake Buena Vista area. ;)

[MelissathePooh]

Dreamflight99,

Michael Graves is not and was not a Disney Architect. He has done projects for Disney such as their Burbank hq, but he is not a Disney architect. He has operated his own firm along with 6 other principals since 1964 - its all in his bio on his own official website.

As your own quote of the tourism guide stated - "...these are not Disney hotels."

[Blondie]

Popcorn...anyone? ;)

[*Flower*]

I'll supply the drinks.........

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by Blondie
Popcorn...anyone? ;) "LOL"...and yes, with REAL BUTTER (authentic...no immitation :p ) PLEASE?! HeHe...you are always dependable, "popping-in" to LIGHTEN the mood. Thanks! TTFN....;)

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by MelissathePooh


Michael Graves is not and was not a Disney Architect. He has done projects for Disney such as their Burbank hq, but he is not a Disney architect. He has operated his own firm along with 6 other principals since 1964 - its all in his bio on his own official website.
Please, don't take every word I write so "Literally"...(LOL). I merely mean to "INFER" that Mr. Graves is a DISNEY"PREFERRED"ARCHITECT! Commisioned...employed...selected...etc., BY DISNEY!! He is also currrently RENOVATING both of these properties. BTW...ever shop at Target and see some of the NEAT DISNEY ITEMS designed by Mr. Graves (w/Disney's approval & license) for use in the home and office? Really, quite a talented man. Disney would have NOTHING less. ;)

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by *Flower*
I'll supply the drinks......... :p ;) IS COKE still the "OFFICIAL" beverage of WDW? I'll take mine on that wonderful PARK ICE (BIG smooth CLEAR CHIPS)! Thanks...you & Blondie are regular BLISS-MAKERS! ;)

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by dreamflight99
:p ;) IS COKE still the "OFFICIAL" beverage of WDW? I'll take mine on that wonderful PARK ICE (BIG smooth CLEAR CHIPS)! Thanks...you & Blondie are regular BLISS-MAKERS! ;)

That's one thing I get so tired of at WDW! I'm sorry but I practically attacked a Pepsi vending machine at DFW airport when we got back. ;)

I recently noticed the Michael Graves Disney stuff at Target. I really like a lot of it!

[dreamflight99]

Originally posted by Planogirl
That's one thing I get so tired of at WDW! I'm sorry but I practically attacked a Pepsi vending machine at DFW airport when we got back. ;)

I recently noticed the Michael Graves Disney stuff at Target. I really like a lot of it! DD TOO! She's a "PEPSI-GIRL" all the way, and keeps hoping PEPSI will come to WDW! ;)