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View Full Version : Project Gemini Trademarks?


DisneyKidds
03-19-2003, 02:06 PM
Not sure if anyone posted this elsewhere, but Disney has apparently filed for a number of trademark rights that most likely would be associated with the new Epcot that would be born from Project Gemini. Of course this doesn't mean anything will ever happen, but at least Disney would own the rights to certain names if it did.

As posted on Screamscape..................

"Project Gemini - Rumor - (3/14/03) A reader was kind enough to point out a few interesting facts on the Trademark website. So far Disney has filed for pending US Trademark rights to names Discoveryland and SSE: Timer Racer. (Update: Yes, they actually filed for Timer Racer and not Time Racer, though this may be a typo.) They also filed for the name Global Village on the same day as Discoveryland which leads me to wonder if this could perhaps be a new name for World Showcase as well. Just another confirmation that this project is moving right along."

All Aboard
03-19-2003, 02:37 PM
FWIW (and it's not much), I like the names "Discoveryland" and "Global Village" better that FW & WS. I especially like GV better than WS for some reason. I've always disliked the name FW. Discoveryland isn't too much better, but it works better for the direction that they've taken that part of the park. I'm ok with a more general direction of Discovery rather than pinning it all on the future.

More than ever, the future is now. We don't seem so amazed by ideas about the future any more. You could roll out prototypes of just about anything and folks will yawn because they figure that it (and something even better) will be available any day now. Technology moves at such a ridiculous pace. The North part of Epcot is better suited as "Discoveryland" IMO. Gives more freedom to the scope of the attractions.

CasualObserver
03-19-2003, 04:06 PM
I think the proper reading of the Project Gemini name is that Epcot will become two, separately ticketed gates. Ta-Da! Instant Fifth gate!

All the other definitions really don't mean anything. I always wondered why no one put the meaning of Gemini to the Horoscope. Gemini, the twins. Two parks, side by side. Twins.

I guess then:

Epcot will become DiscoveryLand, a $47/day ticket
World Showcase will become Global Village, a $47/day ticket (or perhaps like the Pleasure Island ticket).

Instant Park, just add greed!

Casual Observer

DisneyKidds
03-19-2003, 04:10 PM
Anything to be made of the fact that Discoveryland and Global Village were two seperate trademark filings? ;)

CasualObserver
03-19-2003, 04:43 PM
Hey, Kidds, are you saying that my cynical, albeit tounge-in-cheek, analysis was some sort of suspicious, crazy, paranoid delusion?

I mean, I thought it was a really good, suspicious, paranoid delusion and not at all crazy. :D

All Aboard
03-19-2003, 04:54 PM
Observer, actually someone in our midst did have info on this early on.

Another Voice alluded to the two-park concept before anyone was even using the word "Gemini".

DisneyKidds
03-19-2003, 04:59 PM
I mean, I thought it was a really good, suspicious, paranoid delusion and not at all crazy.
No, you are probably right about this particular delusion ;). I was just providing non-specific commentary about how good we all are at.....................ah......................... ..analyzing. Yeah, that's the ticket.

crusader
03-21-2003, 07:27 AM
I seriously doubt there will be a split and two seperately accessed parks will emerge. Right now, it appears they are attempting to install more rides to get the attendance up. The fee strategy will come later.

As for the two trademarks - I am not sure what the filing protocal is but what would be the implication here?

ohanafamily
03-21-2003, 08:06 AM
My $.04, The fifth gate is coming, but it wouldn't make much sense to do anything like it for a few years. They will need world tensions to lower first. They already have 2 seperate opening times.

About the twins, I don't think you are being paranoid; Disney is good at double innuendo for it's project names. It appears they have hit multiple innuendo with this one. This is one of the pit falls when you have really creative people. Holding back their (the imagineers) creative muses causes more and more subtle outlets. Look at all of the hidden Mickeys (and at least one hidden Minnie) that are around. All are Trademarks of pent up imagination.

I still don't think "Uncle Mikey Ei$ner" will turn loose enough of the purse strings to start a project like this in the manner to fully exploit the plans. We may see a name change, Maybe a new gate (anything to squeeze more $$$$$ for his name), but I just don't see him putting that kind of money into the parks.

That said, I have heard that ME$ (OK Barron, I am abusing your TM, but I think that this is more descriptive of Ei$nen...Can I apply for the TM on this one?) will be leaving by the end of the year. He may be setting it up so that his replacement can go spend the money and appear to be the Saviour. His retirement has, after all, a lot of Disney stock. If he can make the changeover look so positive that it triples stock prices, I don't think he cares about our (limited) opinions!!!!!

How is that for paranoia?

:bounce:

WebmasterCricket
03-21-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Anything to be made of the fact that Discoveryland and Global Village were two seperate trademark filings? ;)

"Only one mark is permissible per application, although a mark may consist of several elements that are joined to form a composite whole (e.g., words plus a design)."

They didn't have a choice apparently.

KNWVIKING
03-21-2003, 09:42 AM
". He may be setting it up so that his replacement can go spend the money and appear to be the Saviour. "

I don't think ME's ego would allow him to leave and let someone else appear to be the "saviour". Had his crystal ball forecast the big decline's in Disney since 94,95 I think he would would have step down then,gone out the "saviour" rather then the goat. But, hindsight is always 20/20.

ohanafamily
03-21-2003, 10:05 AM
Maybe KNWVIKING, But I still think that ME$ thinks more of his $$$$$$ than ego.....

Maybe I am wrong...


:bounce:

DisneyKidds
03-21-2003, 12:41 PM
"Only one mark is permissible per application, although a mark may consist of several elements that are joined to form a composite whole (e.g., words plus a design)."
One might be able to read into the info provided that Discoveryland and SSE: Time(r) Racer were part of the same application - but two elements that are joined to form a composite whole (for new items for FW)? Could it be possible that Global Village was a seperate application because it is a seperate whole (park)? I have no idea, but if we want to float various prognostications.................................. ..

raidermatt
03-24-2003, 05:55 PM
Putting on my marketing hat...

I don't thing it would be wise to split the parks and call one anything that ends in "land".

In Disney vernacular, one of the meanings of "land" is a section of a park. Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Dinoland, etc. True, Disneyland itself ends in "land", but it was not broken up into separate parks either.

If an Epcot split is forthcoming, I would think it would be safer to pick a name that does not end in "land", to help with the perception issue.

I know, a point that is irrelevant to the overall business model and philosophy...

All Aboard
03-24-2003, 06:27 PM
How much brand is lost by dumping the word "Epcot"? I would assume that if a splitting were to occur, that either "Epcot" the name is gone, or it is used only to refer to what is currently Future World. Wouldn't it be more confusing to the consumer to call the whole park by a blanket name "Epcot", but treat each half as a seperate gate?

"I thought I paid $50 for Epcot, isn't that part of Epcot over there? It used to be."

I have no idea what is up their sleeve, but it just seems like an insurmountable task to split and sell it to the public with a straight face. Just the physical size of Future World makes it a very tough sell. I bet I could stand at what would be the southern most extreme of Discoveryland (somewhere on the bridge to Global Village) and in a matter of three throws, get a tennis ball out the gate. I shouldn't be able to do that from one side of a Disney theme park to another.

mitros
04-19-2003, 10:01 PM
:confused: Yikes!! How did I miss this one? Do I understand correctly, they want to split epcot into two seperate parks?!?! Has anybody heard anything new about this? It's kind of scary. Neither area is large enough to stand on it's own. It's ridiculous!:mad:

d-r
04-20-2003, 05:20 PM
AV has been hinting for a while that this is being considered.

I hope that what they are considering is making a small parking lot behind american adventure, so that locals with an epcot after 4 pass can get in easily to world showcase through a separate gate. Actually, this would be a good thing because it would keep those after 4 passes out of the bwv pakring lot.

Because AV said it, I'm sure that someone at Disney brought the idea up, but we all know that a lot of ideas are brought up that never come to be - I really can't see them putting a wall between future world and world showcase. I hope no one is dumb enough to actually approve that sort of decision.

Douglas Dubh
04-20-2003, 09:33 PM
Do I understand correctly, they want to split epcot into two seperate parks?!?! Has anybody heard anything new about this? It's kind of scary. Neither area is large enough to stand on it's own.
Although I think it's a terrible idea to split Epcot in two, it isn't accurate to say there isn't enough space to do it. Epcot is plenty big. Both Future World and World Showcase have room for several additional pavillions or stand alone rides and could easily boost the number of attrations to twice the number of IOA, for instance. It would just be a matter of spending the money.

Another Voice
04-20-2003, 10:23 PM
"It would just be a matter of spending the money."

Who said they would add more pavilions? Future World all by itself has more "attractions" than Animal Kingdom does. And if you look at what Disney considers "additions" to Califorina Adventure, it wouldn't take much to bump that place up to a "theme park".

Douglas Dubh
04-20-2003, 10:27 PM
True, AV, true. Cynical, but true.

treesinger
04-22-2003, 10:06 AM
I don't thing it would be wise to split the parks and call one anything that ends in "land".
In Disney vernacular, one of the meanings of "land" is a section of a park. Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Dinoland, etc. True, Disneyland itself ends in "land", but it was not broken up into separate parks either.
I know, a point that is irrelevant to the overall business model and philosophy...



I don't think it's all that irrelevant. Disney is VERY image conscious. Whether or not they try to perpetuate the images is another debate entirely. But something this fundamental and Disney-ubiquitous to the overall Disney concept is pretty important. As veterans, most of us will certainly know the difference. Newcomers will also see the difference, even if for only one reason....their first day WILL be at the Magic Kingdom. They will get a park map and see LANDS. Any future reference to lands will then be ingrained as separate parts of a whole.
Your land comment is inseparable (in the short term) from the Disney image.

And, call me silly, but I would think that Celebration, FL, should be called Epcot, since it actually IS a community, if not quite Walt's intention. 'Course, the real Epcot wasn't quite Walt's image either, but that's another debate.

Queeni512
04-23-2003, 12:23 AM
My .02 here...........

If WS (Global Village?) was separated from the other half of Epcot it would seem like Downtown Disney/Pleasure Island "The Sequel". (Although DTD used to be called Disney Village {some sort of odd parallel with Global Village} way back when just the "Empress Lilly" {Fulton's Crab House} was virtually the only thing there with a few gift shops.) It would seem that WS would need the addition of a few more rides, stage shows, etc. to make it compare with the other theme parks on property. Maybe they could just make WS and the Boardwalk area one huge entertainment complex with a hotel and DVC property right in the middle of all the action--like the Hotel Miracosta at Tokyo DisneySea--just kidding! Even with 'Project Gemini', FW (Discoveryland) would also need to add more attractions--neither side of Epcot would be more than a half-day park, IMHO. I can't imagine how Disney could successfully hope to market this concept to the public after Epcot having been one park since it's opening day.:rolleyes:

Anyway, it should be interesting to see if this idea actually is granted legs.................I certainly hope NOT!!

Kim

P.S. Jason, I agree with regards to Celebration--although the final product is certainly different (no sci-fi look at all in Celebration) from Walt's concept sketches!!

Mop
04-23-2003, 03:17 PM
I made the comment (suggestion?) quite a while ago (when all these Epcot rumors started, before the term "Project Gemini" was even coined) that seperating Epcot in two and making World Showcase a Downtown Disney-type venue wouldn't be such a bad idea. For starters, World Showcase doesn't have all that many attractions. It's mostly shops and restaurants. Where do they get off charging a fee to get into what is essentially a mall? Do we get charged to get into Disney's West End, the Boardwalk, or the Marketplace? We only have to pay to get into Pleasure Island, and then only at night because of the shows and dance clubs. But I was rapped on the knuckles by die-hard Epcot fans when I suggested this and was told in no uncertain terms by someone who seemed to know what he was talking about that Epcot wasn't going to be split in two.

Another thing to consider... if Epcot were split in two, that would leave the paying part of the theme park with only one "land" (Future World). That makes no sense... does it?

Sure, making World Showcase a free venue would drive up attendance at the restaurants and probably increase sales at the shops, but that doesn't address the issue of the rides and attractions that *do* exist there (chief among them are The American Experience and the Maelstrom). I suppose this means that World Showcase would remain a gated venue, but perhaps at a reduced fee? Dunno. I'm sure some at Disney is hard at work thinking about this right now.

Mop

ohanafamily
04-24-2003, 10:08 AM
Mop, If they split the parks in two the concern is the added cost if they want to charge for both parks

:bounce:

turbodisney
04-24-2003, 08:35 PM
If I was in charge of the theme parks, I would spend money and build a new ride every year....people would flock and spend their money....

I would start in Epcot and make a change in the Universe of Energy...would be a good place to start...lol

laceemouse
05-01-2003, 10:27 AM
Hey, my family loves the Universe of Energy!!! Well, could have something to do with the fact that most of the men in my family either did or do work for Exxon!! Actually, my five year old would love it regardless. You see, she is a dino fanatic (I am pretty sure she is not the only preschooler who falls in this catagory) but she is too young/small for the Dinosaur ride at AK. It really is one of her favorite things at WDW. And, you have to give Exxon/Mobil credit for not pulling out like some other sponsors have. Can't they just add new stuff without getting rid of older things that many people still enjoy? I like the new names Discoveryland and Global Village(has a warm, fuzzy PC tone to it) but I feel splitting the two would be a huge mistake. Attendance is down at EPCOT already, and people are gonna pay for two seperate gates??? I doubt it. Just my opinion....Lacee