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madcoco
03-16-2003, 02:33 AM
Budget Cut. The part where the poachers are captured on the Safari at AK. The "live" park ranger waving the gun while Little Red peeks out from the back of the vehicle. Rumored that they are getting rid of the Park Ranger and possibly the whole scene.
Anyone else hear this?

Demosthenes
03-16-2003, 06:39 AM
I hope it's true! That is the lamest part of that whole ride. I'd prefer a ride through the savannah with a guide to the cheesy show at the Safari.

Luv2Roam
03-16-2003, 07:58 AM
I always wondered why they paid some guy justto stand there and wave.

WDWHound
03-16-2003, 08:24 AM
This one budget cut I wouldn't mind seeing.

Safari Steve
03-16-2003, 08:52 AM
The warden position is not essential (like the "Chris, grab my black Les Paul" at RRC). The scene will remain (how could it cost less money to physically remove all of that equipment?)
The position is not gone for good, I'm sure. "Chris" has come and gone with the seasons, as do the pre-show spielers at RRC.

mikifan
03-16-2003, 09:07 AM
I never did care for this angle on the ride also. I understand the point they were trying to make, but it seemed to take away from the ride and add that extra "cheese"!

Jeff

Eyesnur
03-16-2003, 09:24 AM
I'm with you Steve.

Further, I'm always amazed that here on the rumors board soooooo many people hate this "show" aspect. My goodness, it's a great message to teach kids (and having kids now 9 & 13 trust me the message was not lost on them, nor have they grown tired of seeing it...Can you say future classic?) and it adds that "cheesy excitement" that Disney is famous for. Do you guys hate Jungle Cruise as well? A plain Safari ride with just animals becomes boring. This corny act is great...From the nearly falling bridge, to the poachers camp, speeding truck to Little Red in the truck.

Disney is about suspending adulthood and perhaps laughing at the truly silly a little. This cheesy aspect of the Kilimangaro Safari is just cool and I'm quite sure Walt would have loved it!;) s

wdwguide
03-16-2003, 12:43 PM
Well, it does look a little strange now - as if the poachers and the warden are just sitting there in their vehicles having a picnic.

As of Tuesday, the chase scene with the speeding Jeep was finally working again, which is nice.

Now if they would just fix up the Magic Kingdom - that place is in the worst shape I've ever seen it. Peeling paint EVERYWHERE!

AKemel
03-16-2003, 01:05 PM
I was at AK with people who were there for the first time. I kept telling them how ALL the animals on the Safari ride were real. I had to backtrack about the Little Red. I do not think that animatronics belongs with all real animals.

HauntedMansionFan
03-16-2003, 01:27 PM
I had read that they were getting rid of that particular CM position, but keeping that scene with Little Red. On Screamscape they had a short blurb on this.

Pkdcoastrs
03-16-2003, 02:04 PM
On Rock N Roller Coaster, wasn't the guy who grabbed the guitar actually in the FILM?!?! Or am I confused...

Mike

KNWVIKING
03-16-2003, 02:49 PM
This was a real person.

airlarry!
03-16-2003, 03:24 PM
"Chris" was/is a real cast member.

Am I the only one that liked a little excitement at the end of the ride?

I know, M. AV, I probably deserve a little blast for needing a little excitement with my 'education'. Short attention spans and all that blah.

But, really, what's so wrong with an attraction that combines seeing live animals in a replica of their habitat with a little bit of scary bridges and chasing poachers. It kind of has something for everyone. (Now if only it had an inverted barrel roll for Bob O). ;)

If it is the fact that there is an audioanimatronic in there mixed in with the live stuff, I can understand that. Heck, even I was a little disappointed that we never actually saw a live little red.

But I like the African guide calling in from the helicopter. I like the rickety bridge (when its working). I like the fast chase scene.

If I wanted a National Geographic special, I would have gone to AOL/Turnerland.

KNWVIKING
03-16-2003, 03:43 PM
I think the chase at the end ties in great with the message given in the line que. Sure it's campy, but no more so then the gangster stunt in TGMR.

d-r
03-16-2003, 05:53 PM
I like it, it is hokey but fun, I agree with those who like it. I also agree with Safari Steve that, like Chris at rnrc, it can survive without it during a lean time. It isn'tl like a structural change, they can always put somebody there when times are better. The truth is, everytime i go to rnrc and "Chris" isn't there, I miss him - "Chris will you get my les paul" and nothing happens, really, I don't think that new comers notice it at all, however. There is no loss of show for them, imho.


DR

Bob O
03-16-2003, 06:14 PM
This is a lame part of the ride and should be done away with, and not to save money but to make the experience much more enjoyable!!!
Airlarry, now an inversion would really be great!!!(lol) Or maybe they could add a launch to it so you are looking down at the animals(lol).

KNWVIKING
03-16-2003, 06:26 PM
Well, I've seen tons of kids get a huge kick out of the chase element. Why get rid of it ? Especially with the CM gone,it doesn't cost anything to have it.

Douglas Dubh
03-16-2003, 06:46 PM
Sure it's campy, but no more so then the gangster stunt in TGMR.
My opinion is that it is much less campy than the gangster stunt.

HauntedMansionFan
03-16-2003, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Douglas Dubh
My opinion is that it is much less campy than the gangster stunt. Are we talking about when the gangster/cowboy takes over your car until they get to the Indiana Jones scene?

Another Voice
03-16-2003, 07:51 PM
"I know, M. AV, I probably deserve a little blast for needing a little excitement with my 'education'. Short attention spans and all that blah."

No – good education is entertaining without having to resort to tricks. The audience shouldn't feel bad because the creators failed.

Wasn't Animal Kingdom supposed to be a park that taught about the wonders of the natural world – not a cornball yuck fest?

The park was sold on the contention that real animals could be as interesting and exciting as make-believe stories. So why does the "realist" attraction at Animal Kingdom need a "chessy" phony element to reinforce its already trite message? Why laugh at something so silly when one can be thrilled by some truly amazing.

The "educational" quantity of the entire Safari is about the same as a five second commercial bumper on 'The Crocodile Hunter'. There is no attempt at all to make the animals themselves interesting; they're simply props to be looked at as we drive past. The fact that they had to "jazz it up" with phony gimmick elements like the fake bridge, the fake radio calls and the fake "guide" with the fake gun standing by the fake jeeps with the fake elephant after the fake chase through the fake countryside after the fake poachers shows that they were unable (and unwilling) to come up with anything interesting that was real.

Here's a little blurb that you won't hear on the safari – the latest research from now shows that elephants call each other by name. They have extremely complex vocalizations (most of which at a frequency lower than what humans can perceive) which travels for miles in open spaces. Those calls are far more complex than just "danger" or "come here", but may express concepts and emotions. It's even long been realized that elephants have a concept of life and death, of the passage of time, and immensely strong family bond. Let the implications of that roll about your head for a moment.

So what's more interesting: bouncing along in a phony jeep over concrete shaped to look like cliffs pretending to be chasing a rubber mechanical elephant, or knowing that there is a real elephant with a real conscious, self-aware mind looking back at you? And that maybe all the stories we tell about elephants are matched by the stories they tell each other - about us.

Sure, getting that point across is hard. And one that Disney no longer seems capable of making. So we get acres of concrete for carnival games, spin-and-puke rides, steel coasters and every other stomach churning idea that can be bought from another park with the hopes of making a quick buck. The shame is that with all the resources, all the imagination, all the skills and all the experience that Disney could bring to this – to make it better than a National Geographic special – that they've made it so boring and trite.


P.S. " Well, I've seen tons of kids get a huge kick out of the chase element." Actually most times I've been on the ride the kids have always been more thrilled when an elephant pees. Just because "the kiddies like it" doesn't mean it's worthwhile having. Or should that feature be added to the animatronics as well?

Douglas Dubh
03-16-2003, 08:45 PM
Are we talking about when the gangster/cowboy takes over your car until they get to the Indiana Jones scene?
That's the one.

Zurg
03-16-2003, 10:04 PM
I thought it was there in case all the real aminals hid from the hot mid day sun and there was no real animals to be seen. Kind of a back up plan so the guests see something.

Never did anything for me one way or the other.

ToddS
03-16-2003, 10:39 PM
AV --

My sincere thanks for yet another thought-provoking post. It's a side of this discussion that I never would have considered!

All Aboard
03-16-2003, 10:42 PM
Scoop. As Joe Perry is heading out of the recording studio, he pauses and turns back to the microphone and asks, "Chris, could you grab my black Les Paul?"

Sometimes there is a CM (an honest to goodness live one) "tidying up" in the recording studio who acknowledges Perry's request (with a head nod and wave) and grabs a black guitar off a stand and heads out the door with it as the crowd shuffles into the parking garage.

HB2K
03-16-2003, 11:03 PM
The warden position is not essential (like the "Chris, grab my black Les Paul" at RRC). The scene will remain (how could it cost less money to physically remove all of that equipment?)
The position is not gone for good, I'm sure. "Chris" has come and gone with the seasons, as do the pre-show spielers at RRC

It's this type of thinking that is driving the place into the ground. Chris was a part of the RNR pre-show story. He was a plus added. When I see the show now, I notice a difference. I grant that not everyone does, but once you see it once, the next time you go it's a gaping hole. Enough of these potholes have developed around the complex to be noticable. It's sad.

There are too many areas where management takes this stance (It's not essential). It's not essential to make a roller coaster simulate space travel either. What's next, turn on the lights in Space since it's not essential for a guest to ride a roller coaster?

d-r
03-16-2003, 11:21 PM
Um, spoiler warnings I guess if there is anyone out there who still hasn't ridden rnrc - An afterthought note, sorry about the bad jokes, I'm bored.

Scoop-
In the preshow of the rock-n-roller coaster at MGM studios, guests into a building that is themed as a recording studio, for example there are classic tour posters on the walls, gold records (even some big 10-inch records), etc. Guests enter a room that views into a recording studio, which looks as you would expect with musical instruments, microphones, etc. If they are going with the full crew, there is a cast member in there who is dressed as a sound tech guy. The cm is checking out the instruments, looking at things, acting busy. Across the "studio" from the guests, as if in the recording booth, they view a video of the band Aerosmith, who welcomes them on their visit, but who are on they are just about to leave on their way across town for a rock-n-roll show (ain't that a *****). It is supposed to look like the band is behind the glass in the booth. Joe Perry (I think) says something like "Chris, can you get my black Les Paul, please" (something like that, going on memory here) and a cast member, who is acting like a sound guy in the studio itself, responds to the video by saying "OK" or something like that, goes to a guitar that is on a stand there, picks it up, and takes it out the door, as if to bring it to Joe. "Chris" is a pretty smart name in case the dude looks like a lady, because the CM could be male or female.

The band's "manager" is trying to hurry the band along, but Steven Tyler doesn't want to disappoint the fans - he tells the manager to get a limo to take the fans to the concert, and, as if one of the guests suggested it, says something like "I love that idea, get them some back stage passes." Pretty amazing. The manager is no angel and seems a little jaded, but she gets an attitude adjustment. The band leaves to get into their limo as their manager orders a limo for us the guests over the cell phone, looking out as if towards the guests she says "...you better make that a super stretch."

Then the guests walk this way and enter into the ride loading area, themed as a parking garage. The roller coaster itself is themed as a limo, so once all the guests are back in the saddle, the coasters take off with an amazing burst of speed. We really get the lead out. It is a crazy ride through the freeways on the way to make it to the concert on time, accompanied by Aerosmith music, as if it is being broadcast from the show. I think there are four different music tracks, it may seem like more, but it is really the same old song and dance. There is some sweet emotion (OK I AM REALLY REACHING HERE, BUT IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO STOP, DREAM ON) as you go through a couple of inversions, you'll have a three mile smile. Get a grip because it is livin on the edge, and if a push comes to a shove and you get your head tossed around like a rag doll, you'll be cryin' and get sick as a dog. But if you've got what it takes, it's love in a roller coaster. Just let the music do the talking.

If the cast member isn't in the booth, the video is the same with Joe (I think that is who it is) asking for the guitar - but it doesn't really matter because it goes right by guests who haven't noticed it before. I was saying the same thing about little red - without the cm there with the ak-47 or whatever waving you along, you would still see the jeeps and know that little red was saved and the poaches caught - if you expect that guy, you will miss him (I've seen it before without that guy, and you notice it. Of course I always pay attention because I don't want to miss a thing. At first I thought, Disney, stop messing around, are you outta your head? don't get under my skin, something's gotta give. But when I had a chance to think about it, I realized that every last child and adult had a great time, even without it).

One lat thing - if I've opened pandora's box or reached some critical mass and you feel that you need to draw the line, you can write me a letter.
DR

PS I think I told you guys about wdw trainset toys I have stored in the attic at home. I'll be glad to get home so I can play with all those toys in the attic.

BRERALEX
03-17-2003, 11:49 AM
first time i did the ride there was no cm there to wave at us. I think it wasnt til the second or thrid time i rode i saw the cm and thought it was cornier with him. wasnt there a animotronic figure there was once too

wdwguide
03-17-2003, 12:14 PM
"Chris" was composited into the film a while ago; he responds to the request with "I'll get it for you, man".

DisneyKidds
03-17-2003, 01:36 PM
Here's a little blurb that you won't hear on the safari – the latest research from now shows that elephants call each other by name. They have extremely complex vocalizations (most of which at a frequency lower than what humans can perceive) which travels for miles in open spaces. Those calls are far more complex than just "danger" or "come here", but may express concepts and emotions. It's even long been realized that elephants have a concept of life and death, of the passage of time, and immensely strong family bond. Let the implications of that roll about your head for a moment.
Wonderful, fascinating tidbits I always wanted to know about pachyderms. Thanks much.

It is wonderful that you want people to have this real life, actual, realistic knowledge about elephants. We are supposed to be entertained by the reality of it all, the research, the statistics - all this realistic, real life stuff that should entertain us. Sounds great.

Now tell me why we knock Mission:Space because it is too realistic and doesn't give us the 'entertainment element' that a theme park attraction should provide. Why can't we be entertained by the realism of the M:S pod and experience of briefly feeling what an astronaut feels, just like we are supposed to be awed by being told of the communication patterns of pachyderms?

raidermatt
03-17-2003, 03:14 PM
Now tell me why we knock Mission:Space because it is too realistic and doesn't give us the 'entertainment element' that a theme park attraction should provide. Why can't we be entertained by the realism of the M:S pod and experience of briefly feeling what an astronaut feels, just like we are supposed to be awed by being told of the communication patterns of pachyderms?
Its not an either/or situation. The concern is that M:S MIGHT BE sacrificing the "entertainment element" and instead relying on the physical portion of the "realistic experience". Sort of like if the pachyderm communication was included because they found a way to make it really loud, and sacrificed other show elements. Yes, those physical aspects can be an entertaining part of the show, but that's not all we want in attractions of this kind of scope.

KS takes some liberties with a "realistic safari experience" by arranging the animals so they can be seen with much more frequency than one could on a real safari. Similarly, M:S could take liberties with a "realistic astronaut experience" by providing visuals that might be beyond what can be seen in a "real simulator". (Maybe it does, but this is just the concern at this point). This would seem particularly appropriate for M:S, since its set in the future.


On the "Big Red" issue, I don't really have a problem with the storyline, but I agree the experience could have been something more. However, if they are sticking with the story, the CM at the end does add to the experience.

This maybe a cut that very few really have a problem with, but its a result of the same philosophy that drives cuts that more DO have a problem with.

The truth is, everytime i go to rnrc and "Chris" isn't there, I miss him - "Chris will you get my les paul" and nothing happens, really, I don't think that new comers notice it at all, however. There is no loss of show for them, imho. But of course its a loss for them. If something that adds to the show is removed, the experience is diminished. Not knowing your experience is diminished doesn't change that. Your experience was diminished from a 99.5 to a 99.2, for example. For those who never saw "Chris", their experiene was a 99.2 from the beginning. Its just part of this "what can we get away with" mentality.

YoHo
03-17-2003, 03:29 PM
I realize AK get knocked for being Just a Zoo, but In this case, the point of the ride is to see the animals. A part that is far too short in my humble oppinion. And even when I was a teenager, I prefered to be educated in a subtle way, not with a baseball bat.
Heck, I'm not bothered by the Animotronics or any of that, and I don't mind the Little Red part staying, but I WOULD like more time to see the animals.




....Funny, San Diego's Wild Animal park doesn't need Audio Animatroinic Elphants in danger from poachers to educate and rake in the guests, hmmm. Must be those Wacky Californians.

All Aboard
03-17-2003, 05:00 PM
My take on Little Red. For a first-time ride on the attraction, I think it adds to the experience. It creates a story on an attraction that otherwise wouldn't have much of one. The speeding Jeep, the live actor and the animatronic are all well placed in my opinion. I even enjoy the communication over the radio. I've got no problem with them philosophically.

However, it does punish the repeat guest. Honestly, after many trips through the Safari at this point I'd prefer it not to be there.

So, as I sit here on the fence... Perhaps as a story element it's not all that strong. On JC, I still look forward to the Captain telling me that Chief Nami will trade two of his heads for one of mine. On KS, I don't look forward to the final chase anymore.

DisneyKidds
03-17-2003, 05:04 PM
Its not an either/or situation. The concern is that M:S MIGHT BE sacrificing the "entertainment element"
It's not a matter of either/or, but being consistent in what it is you think should provide the "entertainment element".

It appears that regaling us with realistic tales of how the sensitive elephants make one another weep is supposed to be entertaining substance. There is no need for embellishments for entertainment purpose. In short, reality IS the entertainment. With M:S it doesn't appear that is the case. With M:S we need more than reality. We need artistic liscence and liberty applied to reality to make the reality entertaining.

I'm fine with educating us more about elephants, without the "unrealistic" sideshow. I can also accept the same with respect to M:S. However, if one believes that reality is not enough in M:S, I don't see how it can be with a bunch of "talking" elephants.

Another Voice
03-17-2003, 05:40 PM
The problem with both Little Red and 'Mission: Space' is that they miss the real wonder and the real magic of their subject matter.

The "magic" of a safrai is not racing across the landscape chasing the bad guys - it's seeing animals as they truely are, to see how they really live and understand their true place in the world (and that it's not so different than what our place is).

The "magic" of space is not being squished while being twirlled about - it's that there are real world that are more bizzare, more beautiful and more wonderous than anything we can imagine (and that those worlds are just around the corner).

There is so much more that could have been done and so many wonders that could have been presented. Gawking at caged animals and being trapped inside a spin-n-puke are easy. It lacks imagination, it lacks wonder - it lacks joy.

It doesn't matter how lifelike the robot elephant moves or proper placement of the switches inside the spinning "rocketship" - realism without meaning has no purpose.

Little Red serves no purpose.

d-r
03-17-2003, 05:46 PM
"There is so much more that could have been done and so many wonders that could have been presented. Gawking at caged animals and being trapped inside a spin-n-puke are easy. They lack imagination, they lack wonder - they lack joy."

Can't speak for mission:space, but I really disagree about the safari - Lacks wonder and joy? Jeesh, come on!

YoHo
03-17-2003, 06:13 PM
Seriously though, whether or not someone likes the "show" element of Little Red is an entirely subjective issue that'll have this thread going in circles in perpetuity.
I would suggest to you that far fewer people question any of the show elements in say Haunted mansion, or Pirates, or Jungle cruise.

There are people that may not like the ride, but nobody questions any aspects of the show.

doesn't it say something remarkable that people are questioning Little red.

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 06:44 PM
doesn't it say something remarkable that people are questioning Little Red

Yoho, no it doesn't. It has only to do with who gave us Pirates, HM & JC versus which mgmt. team gave us KS (and little Red). Were it Walt's baby there'd be absolutely no discussion

raidermatt
03-17-2003, 06:52 PM
It appears that regaling us with realistic tales of how the sensitive elephants make one another weep is supposed to be entertaining substance. There is no need for embellishments for entertainment purpose. In short, reality IS the entertainment. I don't see where anybody said "tales of weaping elephants" was the only thing KS should have been about. The criticism was that KS could have included more of the types of things AV describes (or other things nobody has mentioned), and instead went with Big Red / Little Red.

This is in no way contradictory to the concerns expressed about M:S.

The point was not that KS was not realisitic. Nor was the criticism of M:S only that it was too realisitic.

raidermatt
03-17-2003, 06:56 PM
Yoho, no it doesn't. It has only to do with who gave us Pirates, HM & JC versus which mgmt. team gave us KS (and little Red). Were it Walt's baby there'd be absolutely no discussion Nice try Nostrad....er, I mean Eyesnur.

The reality is, if the Little Red story didn't have Disney's name stamped on it, there'd be very few defending it (or PW).

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 07:25 PM
Matt, as Scoop implied, you say potato, I say ... Well, anyway, say what you will but there will be no proof either way. But the fact is none of you guys embrace anything with a hint of an ME stamp on it. Heck M. Voice won't even give ME credit for brokering the deal with Pixar or for hiring Katzenburg for brokering the deal.:confused:

It has to stop somewhere and the intentions and what has been delivered by KS would warm the cockles of Walt's heart faster than a summers day at Voices beach house...

My lone wonderment is my frend GCurling who is able to listen to the JC spiel over and over and yet gets bugged by the Little Red sequence. It all seems the same to me.

And Mr. Matt, invoking PW into the discussion (at this point) of these truly quality and/or classic offerings, in hopes of further showing Eisner's ineptness, is nothing more than mud in the water...KS educates, entertains and gets you close to the animals. Is more really needed?

Lastly, M. Voice's desire for further education could be incorpoated in the guides speech but how long before this becomes a bore as well? And worse an educational bore! Besides all of these "facts" are available to guests at the AK in the right venue.

KNWVIKING
03-17-2003, 07:54 PM
1st, what is PW ?

2nd,Matt, from where did you take your picture of SM ?

3rd, Prior to KS I did not know :

What Raticulated Giraffe (sp) meant.

Elephants scratch themselves on termite mounds.

Antelope stand on old mounds to stand guard.

Hippies kill more people then any other animal.

What an "upside down tree" is.

How much elephants eat.

Why Croc's hold their mouths open,( well,maybe I knew this).

What a "Tommy" is.

How bad poaching is.

The difference between Black & White Rhino's.

The cycle of agriculture on the African Savana.

And tons of stuff that i can't recall. Our local Six Flaggs has a Safari. All I learned from it was to never drive a car thru with a Vinyle top,the monkees rip it off and eat it.

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 08:04 PM
Mr. KNWVIKING, your description of the drive thru safari gave me a much needed laugh!!! thanks!

As for the acronym, PW = Primevil Whirl...

YoHo
03-17-2003, 08:25 PM
I've become a West coaster, when I see Primeval Whirrl, I think its Primeval WORLD which is an absolutly excellent addition to the Disneyland Railroad.



Yoho, no it doesn't. It has only to do with who gave us Pirates, HM & JC versus which mgmt. team gave us KS (and little Red). Were it Walt's baby there'd be absolutely no discussion


Oh really, Last time I checked, I at least first fell in love with Pirates and Haunted and Jungle Cruise well before I even knew who Micheal Eisner was. And I first road KJ at least six months before our Esteemed Landbaron showed up (and when he did, I initially was fully on your side) So, no, my opinion at least has absolutly nothing to do with the managment team in charge.

raidermatt
03-17-2003, 08:38 PM
Matt, as Scoop implied, you say potato, I say ... Well, anyway, say what you will but there will be no proof either way. I know. Just thought I'd show you my hyperbole since you showed me yours!;)

But the fact is none of you guys embrace anything with a hint of an ME stamp on it. Depends on how you define stamp. It does seem that very little of what he has significant input into turns out for the best. We know that many of the edicts coming down from on high are not exactly customer friendly. Also, the most successful Disney films, for the most part, are the smaller, family pictures Eisner doesn't interfere with as much.

From my 'outsider' point of view, I certainly embrace some of the things created on his watch, like ToT, Splash, the earlier animated films, L&S, some stuff in AK... but on the whole, more harm is being done than good. Its not like he is a new CEO trying to reign in rogue divisions...he has consolidated complete control over the organization, so he must be held responsible for direction.

As for KS, I'd certainly say there is more "right" about the attraction than there is "wrong". It is a family inclusive attraction that has proved appealling to Disney's guests. If this were an example of their worst work, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. But I do see AV's point that it could have been more. If approached with the intentions, not only would the worst of Disney's current creations be improved, but the best would be improved as well.

Matt, from where did you take your picture of SM ? That's actually a picture of the tent in Toontown. I took it while walking down the exit stairs from Goofy's Barnstormer.

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 08:41 PM
But that is just you Yoho, not the other yahoo's!;) And besides you've been absent from these boards almost as long as me (lots of folks don't know us).

Certainly there are exceptions, but generally it seems that Eisner 'given's' are not accepted well (i.e. KS, nee all of AK, AKL, RnR, TT, etc.) yet JC, Astro Orbitor, The Carousel, etc. continue to get a free pass. Look at the stink made over JIYI. It was a pretty lame attraction in the first place but it had a huge loyalty (note: I realize the mistake here was taking a time honored ride and "improving" it by actually making it worse! Duh! What WERE they thinking?)... Anyway, I know they (these examples) are from a bygone day, but they still were nothing spectacular even in their day...It's just such a double standard...

Anyway, good to be talking to you again...

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 08:44 PM
Matt. It's nice to reach some sort of compromise. I have no beef with your last post at all!:p

Another Voice
03-17-2003, 09:31 PM
"Elephants scratch themselves on termite mounds."

Well I guess the all that money they spent on Animal Kingdom is well earned. I mean, how can argue with the magic of learning that. Everything on the list I learned from a film strip in the third grade.

One really has to wonder what really makes Disney so special to some people. Yes, Disney's Jeep ride has more trees than Six Flags' Jeep ride. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.

Our good friend Mr. Scoop is correct. Quality does not guarantee success and sleazy often finds a substantial audience. I happen to believe that quality products have a better chance at success and with the odds so stack against you already, why not try for something unique, different, and truly great. At least you can sleep at night with the knowledge that you tried. I know plenty of others don't share that opinion. Creating something like that requires work and effort on the part of the creators, and work on the part of the audience as well. There are a lot of lazy people in this world.

Carnival games, cheap shopping mall rides, bad food at high prices, concrete box hotels…how are these different from about three million similar constructions across the country? I think we know the answer to that.

I guess there's no point in arguing it. Hell, Chez Whiz and Spam have plenty of fans too.

Gee…maybe that's what happened to Little Red.


P.S. " Heck M. Voice won't even give ME credit for brokering the deal with Pixar or for hiring Katzenburg for brokering the deal" – just as soon as blame him for personally ordering the removal of the fourth chicken finger.

Eyesnur
03-17-2003, 09:35 PM
I believe it was Michael Eisner's management directives that led to the removal of th 4th chicken finger at WDW restaurants...:p

KNWVIKING
03-17-2003, 09:52 PM
If it wasn't for AV's remarkable sarcasim, I'd never have had my eyes opened to how bad one of my favorite rides in all of WDW really is. Guess we went to different schools during the 3rd grade because I didn't learn all the fun facts that are given on KS,we were learning math instead. But at least now I know that the only difference between KS and Six Flaggs are the number of trees.

Guess I should cancel my trips to WDW, I've got Sixx Flaggs just 50 miles away. Who needs a bunch of trees anyway.

DisneyKidds
03-17-2003, 11:54 PM
Just thought I'd show you my hyperbole since you showed me yours!
Hey guys - none of that. This is a family site!
If it wasn't for AV's remarkable sarcasim, I'd never have had my eyes opened to how bad one of my favorite rides in all of WDW really is.
Ah, my good Viking - don't buy what M. AV is selling ;).
The point was not that KS was not realisitic. Nor was the criticism of M:S only that it was too realisitic.
Perhaps not.............................but...............
The problem with both Little Red and 'Mission: Space' is that they miss the real wonder and the real magic of their subject matter.
................because KS is not realistic enough? (after all, it is just "Gawking at caged animals") and M:S is too realistic in it's depiction of what astronauts experience?

I don't know. I with Scoop, there have been MANY times we have had to stop on KS for a white rhino or a giraff to cross the road, walking not more than 10 feet from the vehicle. That was pretty darn realistic to me.

d-r
03-18-2003, 12:28 AM
warning to wtg2000 - I'm just posting this for sarcasm-

One really has to wonder what really makes Disney so special to some people. Yes, Disney's Jeep ride has more trees than Six Flags' Jeep ride. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.

sarcasm=
One really has to wonder what makes Journey to the Center of the Earth so special to some people. Yes, JTCOTE does go through a (pretend-looking) cave past fake looking glowing crystals and mushrooms, and there is a weird looking animatronic at the end that is apparently supposed to be something scarey, but is so strange and fake looking that you find yourself just looking at it blankly thinking "hmm, I wonder what that's supposed to be?" and the cars have roofs on them, unlike test track. So what? They're the same ride except for the "but this one goes to eleven" factor that people confuse with something good.
/sarcasm

OK, AV, although I agree with you most of the time, I wrote that because I don't agree with you here. I think the safari ride is really, really well done. In fact, I'll go one farther. I've ridden it probably a dozen times, more or less, who knows. There are moments - just a split second really, or maybe a fraction of a second - where I am looking at the animals or the scenary and for that fraction of a moment I forget that I am in central florida at a theme park. It is the ONLY attraction where I've had a fleeting moment of suspension of disbelief. I'm not talking about the little red story here, I'm talking about the scenary, the setting, the animals. When I rode JTCOTE I Knew from the moment I entered the cue, heck the momemt I entered the chaldea, until the moment I got off, that I was on one of the best theme park attractions in the world. I never doubted that for a second. However, on the safari, sometimes I realize that for the past moment or so I had forgotten I was on a ride in Florida, that, just for a second, I had been totally immersed and lost in the moment. It is the attention to detail in the setting, the scenary, the backdrop.
DR

Another Voice
03-18-2003, 01:33 AM
"…there have been MANY times we have had to stop on KS for a white rhino or a giraffe to cross the road…"


And that's impressive because….? The bars on the cages are hidden? That Disney doesn't want to drive over their animals? That they've cleverly disguised the feeders to look almost like something that could pass for what people think an African tree ought to look like?

Funny, I can go down to the Wild Animal Park south of here. There I get to ride around in the back of a truck (without the phony radio), have a giraffes walk right up to me and eat food out of my hand. No programmed concrete trails to follow on the way to the phony elephant – just a naturalist that will answer my questions.

So---- what's more "realistic": pretend Africa or actually getting to touch the animals?

The Wild Animal Park is better because it presents real animals; Disney presents its animals as props. You could turn each creature in Disney's park into a carpet and replace them all with mechanical figures and the safari ride won't have to changed one bit. Even the old 1955 had hippos stopping the boat; it shouldn't be too hard to get a phony giraffe to do the same.

I understand what you're trying to say – you want to be entertained. No problem and that's a perfectly acceptable request. On that level, then I have to say Disney does a better job. But don't for a second believe that either Animal Kingdom or 'Mission: Space' offer anything "educational" or something grander than a few moments amusement. They are attractions in the truest sense of the word.

Disney had a chance to do something more, but they settled for less.

Enjoy.

airlarry!
03-18-2003, 07:20 AM
M. AV:

Your argument here reminds me of some arguments I get about the entire WDW complex.

"Why go to World Showcase? I've been to France already?"

"Who wants to ride a jungle cruise with fake animals in it?"

"The Great Movie Ride? Sounds like the local Ripley's Wax Museum on Decatur."

Isn't the KS attraction at least on par with the rest of WDW, or is your quibble with the attraction that they could have done something better but didn't?

DisneyKidds
03-18-2003, 08:49 AM
But don't for a second believe that either Animal Kingdom or 'Mission: Space' offer anything "educational" or something grander than a few moments amusement. They are attractions in the truest sense of the word.
Pssst.....................AV...................... ....a little secret.....................

WE ARE TALKING WDW THEME PARKS - THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!!!!!

None of your 'classics from yesteryear' or attractions from the 'days before ME' are anything more. MK was never intended to be anything more. Better attractions than the other guys, done in a different way, where the whole family could enjoy it together - yes, but still attractions. Even the almighty educational EPCOT (not Epcot ;)) was nothing more. After all, Living Seas was just a large fish bowl, Land a garden patch, etc., etc. ;).

I do think KS is well done. I think M:S will be as well. Just my opinion of course.

BRERALEX
03-18-2003, 09:17 AM
That Disney doesn't want to drive over their animals?

hey man i wouldnt mind; if it got my chicken finger back; one way or another

All Aboard
03-18-2003, 09:39 AM
My lone wonderment is my frend GCurling who is able to listen to the JC spiel over and over and yet gets bugged by the Little Red sequence. It all seems the same to me.Perhaps it's the fun of seeing how each CM handles the spiel, waiting to see if he/she throws in something I've yet to hear. I think I can confidently say that if JC had a taped narration that played in the boat (always the same), I'd doubtfully ride very often. The CM "makes" the attraction. The Little Red thing has just grown tiresome in a short time. It has nothing to do with whether Eisner built it or not. Heck, as much as I think Dinosaur could be much, much better, we enjoy it over and over again - even though it has what could be considered a tiresome storyline. Not sure why the Little Red thing rubs me the wrong way, but it really does.

AV, [insert the "generally agree with you, blah blah blah" speech here] but this time I think perhaps you've gone overboard. Your message comes across as if you feel KS is a total piece of crap, a waste of time and money. You mention that it could have been "much more" but I'm not sure I understand what you've pointed out that could make it much better. You've written about the elephants language, how would you have worked that into the show? What more would you have done? I just curious, your contempt for this attraction seems very strong.

BRERALEX
03-18-2003, 09:43 AM
ya JC is all about (to me) which cm are we gonna get.

will we hear the britanny spears joke.

the florida recount joke.

or just some new joke ive never heard before. I'll even ride twice the same day, when the sun is up and at night. JC never gets boring depending on the delivery of the jokes.

KS i can only bare when riding it with someone 'new' cause they dont know whats going to happen.

DisneyKidds
03-18-2003, 10:23 AM
JC never gets boring depending on the delivery of the jokes.
(Note - not signaling you out Alex - just using this as an opening to a general comment ;))

JC can be funny if you get a good CM. However, I have to point out that the majority of the "jokes" are canned and are the same. The shrunken heads bit, etc. - all the bits that are tied to the various 'sightings'. Sure, in between those sightings a good CM will tell a few funny jokes (although I'm sure these are scripted as well). It appears that that good filler has become the attraction for many. Not sure that was ever the intent of the ride.

CM on KS provide filler as well. So they don't make the jeeps the travelling comedy club that is the JC (and that is giving JC a little too much credit if you ask me). However, some of the CM are much better at delivering the filler they have on KS. Perhaps Disney should give the KS CM a little more leeway, or a little more scripted filler to work with, but a good CM can make a difference on KS as well.

Safari Steve
03-18-2003, 10:26 AM
It's all in the delivery.

BRERALEX
03-18-2003, 10:34 AM
JC can be funny if you get a good CM. However, I have to point out that the majority of the "jokes" are canned and are the same.

true but even the jokes that are the same everytime i get a kick out of new riders not getting them. like the downed plane you know how that happpens.......hippos...and like people are looking up and all around. i did the ride tipsy one time woooooooo it kicked @$$.

If i went on JC and didnt hear 'the backside of water' i'd go mad.

KS i think is decent at best. I hardly can understand the cm driving anyways. if it's not the noise from the truck its an accent or the cm is just boring, which i dont think is the cm's fault.

after awhile when you hear the fake radio calls from the plane i just start to roll my eyes like come on already. i think they should get rid of little red. give us some more lion time or a better view of the lions. The tommy's are cute but boring. I think what kills me about AK is just how here in joisey Great Adventure's safari you can see a ton of animals and then when i go to AK its like 'aaaa big deal.' DK have you ever been to Great Adventure? did ya ride nitro?

DisneyKidds
03-18-2003, 10:50 AM
true but even the jokes that are the same everytime i get a kick out of new riders not getting them.
I know - but the same can be said for the Little Red bit.
KS i think is decent at best.
But do you think that assessment is based on the attaction itself, or what you find entertaining? You are entertained by the same jokes time and again. Perhaps you aren't as entertained by the bits of info about animals that the KS CM's provide along the way (and if so, would more info about elephant communication really make a difference?) However, there may be people who might appreciate learning about animal facts as opposed to hearing those old jokes. Different strokes for different folks you know ;).

BTW - I haven't been to Great Adventure in years. DW is not a fan of thrill rides so we don't go very often.

BRERALEX
03-18-2003, 10:59 AM
But do you think that assessment is based on the attaction itself, or what you find entertaining?

attraction itself. i mean first your lucky if you get to see the animals. And then in some areas where i mean i guess its understandable, when you do see the animals there so far away. When we see a bunch of alligators...or are they crocs?lololol the driver always always always zoooms by them. you getto the lions.....ZZZZzzzzzzzzz and even if there not sleeping you know how lazy those guys are. The cheetahs are always far away up in the back. If anything i think little red takes alot away from the attraction. We all know its a load of crap.

(and if so, would more info about elephant communication really make a difference?)

if the dude (cm) would park the darn truck and sit there and let us hear him if he were to articulate in a clear way soem facts about the animals i think ya it would make a diffence. whizzin by at whatever miles per hour and then the africa music comes on the speakers is a joke. I thought it was suposed to be an educational park about animals....at least that was the impression i got. maybe instead of driving fast to get the ride over the trcuk should stop copletely at some some spots and were fed some info on the animals

NITRO at GA is a monster. four minute long coaster should do wonders for the DW. too bad GA isnt worth it.

ok i have my 'HISTORY OF SPORTS' class now and dont wanna be late. c you peeps later

Another Voice
03-18-2003, 11:00 AM
As I said, if you wanted to be entertained - enjoy.

But patting yourself on the back for being "educated" by phony radio conversations, hydralic elephants and bored cast members is really, really silly.

There's nothing wrong with light entertainment. Just know the difference between the good stuff and the junk food.

YoHo
03-18-2003, 11:47 AM
Things I've learned in this Thread.

1: most people here went to really crappy grade schools that didn't teach them any natural history and have never gone to a half way decent zoo.

2: Many apparently didn't realize poachers weren't a problem in africa.


Lets face it, there are hundreds of Zoos across the country that provide far more education and only slightly less realistic settings fr there animals.

That is in fact one of AK's faults. One that AV points out well. everybody and there brother does what AK does. they need to be better then that.


The it could have been so much more argument is a bit of a slippery slope (although Scoop, I think your out of your league when you sugges HM, or POTC could have been "so much more" That fact that they set out to do exactly what they do and draw stupendous amounts of people 30 years after they were built says they are exactly what they need to be.



The point is, KS offers very little to the average person with a good Zoo and the Discovery channel. What it does offer, a realistic encloser and excellent views, it skimps on in order to pile drive a weak message into you.

SO what if you get 15 seconds more face time with the animals, because one crossed the road.

YoHo
03-18-2003, 12:40 PM
The stated intentions of Pirates was to offer a realistic view of the Caribbean pirate with a humorous bent.
Disneyland and thus Disney World was created to be educational as well as fun and humorous. PotC is perhaps THE perfect example of Walt's goal.

The stated intentions of KS

Live Wild animals and exotic landscapes set the scene for a thrilling safari that tells a dramatic story about wildlife today in Africa. Herds of live animals..., will be presented in true-life adventure stories of mystery, danger and humor.


From Since the World Began by Jeff Kurtti

Tell me did they live up to their goals in a fashion similar to Pirates?

And yes, I think that Longevity is an excellent marker for the quality of a ride and before you ask the question, Longevity is not the only marker. It's been what 6-7 years since Ks first opened? how many rides did Walt replace or update in that time, because they weren't what people wanted/the best he could do? I would suggest that KS at least fails the Pirates test. and since if find very little Humor or Mystery in the ride, I'll grant danger. It fails to live up to its own billing. Never mind that I was told the LIVE ANIMALS would be taking part in the story, not just a prop to distract the rider.

AKemel
03-18-2003, 12:50 PM
I think this thread summarized the feelings most people have toward Disney®.

Even car 3 and car 4 people on this board LOVE Disney. For some people, the more they love Disney, the more they expect. I try to keep this in mind when I see LOTS of complaints and many great expectations. I keep reminding myself that only people who really like Disney® the way it IS would spend so much time thinking about it.

The problem is that some people lose touch with reality. Their expectations exceed what is humanly possible. Yet, the only reason they say what they do is because, in their own way, they LOVE Disney®

Another Voice
03-18-2003, 01:00 PM
'Pirates', 'Mansion' and the like are entertainment. Well made entertainment and there's nothing wrong with that.

The Safari ride dresses itself up as "educational" in an attempt to make itself "better" than something like the 'Jungle Cruise'. But it lacks the will to really teach and to skill to educate in an entertaining manner. It ends up doing neither well. No one really goes on the ride to chase Little Red and no one really learns anything of value either.

Making education entertaining is very difficult. Disney has a better track record than most, but I'd say they have more flops than successes. I mean 'The World of Motion' wasn't educational or entertaining either.

But that shouldn't be a reason for Disney to stop trying. They announced the goal of Animal Kingdom was to teach while it entertained. But they chickened out - they went for cheap thrills because it was easier (and cheaper) to do. It's all the more pity because they have such an amazing subject matter. If there was ever a topic they could have let their imaginations fly free (pardon the pun), it would have been here.

Instead we got a place that uses everything as decorations to staple onto average, run-of-the-mill attractions. Real animals stuck on stage like props, cardboard dinosaurs are glued onto roller coasters, and nothing that hasn't been done a hundred times before is presented. There's nothing special at Animal Kingdom and that's a true shame.

Little Red and the cast member waving the fake AK-47 is just a symptom of the lack of effort. It's a show element so uninteresting people don't care if it's dropped and so un-educational people consider it a distraction.

It's not a matter of what "is" or what's "humanly impossible" - it's a matter of people trying to create good things and those that don't want to try.

YoHo
03-18-2003, 02:31 PM
Scoop, all I can suggest is that you take a trip to San Diego and see what we're talking about. KS is a fun thing to do at WDW when I have nothing better to do. it isn't a draw. Heck, I'd rather go on the Tiger walk and the Gorilla trail. they at least offer enclousres better then just about anywhere else.

Master Grayson
03-18-2003, 03:15 PM
People please ! I think we are forgetting the big picture here........OUR KIDS!!!!
I could care less if we drove in a circle, but just to see the smile on my boys faces everytime we get off the ride and they ask if we can go back on makes it all worth while!! And to say nothing is learned is insane, my 6yr old can name 3/4 of the animals on KS. As far as little red will he miss it , I guess I'll find out in June.:D

hopemax
03-18-2003, 03:53 PM
Actually, I think I agree with YoHo, but I don't know if our reasons are the same. On the trails you really get to see how the animals LIVE. The safari is good for a quick photo op and then you're on to the next enclosure.

During our trip in January, we were watching the meerkats and the CM started telling us about how a few weeks ago a small aligator got into the enclosure and the responses of the meerkats. As a guest, can you imagine watching that play out.

We were there during the cold snap, which in Animal Kingdom turned out to be a big plus, the animals were a lot more active. One of the gorillas was putting on a show for the guests. She would beat her chest and then watch to see what the humans did, people would be ready to leave because she stopped doing things, and then she'd start all over. In her eyes you could see her joy for making the crazy humans pull out their cameras and call for their kids and spouses. You don't get that on the safari.

Yes, the giraffes come close to the jeeps, but during one of our recent trips to Woodland Park we watched as their male giraffe tried to mount the female. The circle of life in action.

The safari is really nice, I go several times a trip. But it's not the end all and be all of human/animal interaction . It was great to see the new baby hippo swimming around with her mother, but it sure would be nice to have the ability to watch them for more than 10 seconds.

airlarry!
03-18-2003, 03:58 PM
I understand now.

Walt went for jokes and a family atmosphere in the Jungle Cruise, with a little scenery evoking memories of some of those old movies like Bogart in "The African Queen". And he suceeded.

Disney with AK was trying to build something that was "Nahtazoo" and was going to be educational and entertaining at the same time.

You find that KS is neither very educational nor very entertaining, compared with the huge source material they were given.

I can agree with that. My take here is that by that standard, and it is a good and valid standard, then many, many of Disney's recent attempts from Epcot on have failed that standard. Test Track comes to mind.

Sarangel
03-18-2003, 04:17 PM
Hippies kill more people then any other animal.Am I the only one to find this hysterically funny? I have images of deadly animals in beaded fringe, tie-dye, and little round sunglasses threatening the Safari ride...

Sarangel

KNWVIKING
03-18-2003, 05:45 PM
I reread your post three times before I relized I didn't spell Hippo. Maybe the hippo's in Fantasia looked more like hippies to me.

madcoco
03-18-2003, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the laugh.:) Suggestion for new KS Educational Commentary.(reprinted from the internet story Horace the Hippo Part 2)

"Look over there -- it's a big hairy hippie! What's he doing here?"

"What's a hippie?" asked Terri.
"A hairy human in bad clothes," answered Harry. "He looks like he's lost. I'm going to see if he needs any help."
"Well ... okay," murmured Terri as the hippo approached the hippie. "But please be careful!"

The hippie understood that the hippo and the bird were talking about him, even if he didn't understand what they said. He said, "Hello, hippo. I'm a very sad hippie. My girlfriend is in the hospital because she stopped eating. She thinks that a real hippie has to be very thin. Please help me to show her that you can be hip and fat at the same time. Maybe there is also a hippie-hippo in this hippo company."

raidermatt
03-18-2003, 06:20 PM
Last year, on KS, I managed to get a video close-up of a Zebra taking a #2.

KNWVIKING
03-18-2003, 06:28 PM
Maybe that photo will be toon-town-tent's replacement.

raidermatt
03-18-2003, 06:30 PM
I keep reminding myself that only people who really like Disney® the way it IS would spend so much time thinking about it. Nice try, Akemel, but some of us do spend time thinking about things we would like to see improved, and not just those that give us the warm and fuzzies.

As much strongly as a variety of folks suggest that some of us will accept anything Disney (even though nearly all of us are on record as being disappointed in some things), I feel there is an equally large contingent whose frustration with the current regime causes them to dismiss anything associated with that regime without allowing the "thing" dismissed to stand on its own merits (the exception being Illuminations, I think...) I've already exposed my hyperbole once in this thread out of reciprocation...do I have to do it again?


One thing I can say for sure is that while I don't hate the Big/Little Red storyline, it does seem like a weak attempt vs. what could have been done with the attraction. The removal of the live CM certainly doesn't help the situation.


Oh, and I actually like the music portion of the attraction...very relaxing. (That's not to say it couldn't be axed in favor of a better overall experience).

raidermatt
03-18-2003, 06:32 PM
Maybe that photo will be toon-town-tent's replacement. Its on VHS, but if I ever convert it to digital, I'll see what I can do...

DVC-Landbaron
03-18-2003, 07:02 PM
OK!! First things first! I did not know that Gcurling was a Jungle Cruise fan, but I knew there was something about him that I liked!!! I love the ride too!! But more often than not I am disappointed with it! Sometimes they lack a bit of quality control it seems! Some of the CMs rush through the spiel and present it in a very ho-hum way!

If you can, do yourself a favor. Get on a boat that has Safari Steve as a skipper!! I have had many, many, many skippers and he is by far the best I’ve ever heard!!! If you still don’t care for the ‘canned jokes’ you have NO sense of humor!!! Perhaps it's the fun of seeing how each CM handles the spiel, waiting to see if he/she throws in something I've yet to hear. I think I can confidently say that if JC had a taped narration that played in the boat (always the same), I'd doubtfully ride very often. The CM "makes" the attraction.I wholeheartedly agree!! And it really isn’t just the canned bit (although that is a big part). I think it is also the feigned drama of it all. I have the same complaint about the Great Movie Ride! I LOATHE that part of the ride!

I think it comes down to re-watchability (the slogan for TV-Land). They show reruns. Hundreds and hundreds of reruns. Most of which I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of times. Yet! I can still get a giggle out of Dick Van-D(y)ke or Andy Griffith. And as much as I really don’t like some shows, I can still tolerate many of them that my kids watch. In other words I don’t HATE watching it or at least it’s not irritating!!

BUT!! Who wants to watch a rerun of survivor? Or maybe one of the thousands of shows that just don’t do particularly well in reruns. You never seem to see Hill Street Blues any more. Or St. Elsewhere, Dallas, Falcon Crest and similar shows. Yeah you may tune in for a certain nostalgic flavor, but half way through the episode you’re bored to tears!! In other words they don’t have – re-watchability!! And in my opinion neither does The Great Movie Ride or the Safari!!


Hopemax is quite correct when she says: The safari is really nice, I go several times a trip. But it's not the end all and be all of human/animal interaction. And that’s what they touted when the place opened. And it just doesn’t happen. Or as Sir Larry says:
Disney with AK was trying to build something that was "Nahtazoo" and was going to be educational and entertaining at the same time.Now you might think that AV has finally flipped his wig!! Lost his one remaining marble or finally completed his wall!! No! Not at all!! But he takes a hard line! So do I!! Which is why I understand him perfectly. For me (my subjective opinion only) there are three problems with the ride. And all three of them I can completely put out of my mind when I’m in Disney!!

1- Disney’s spin! The whole “educational” thing. Simple fact is it ain’t all the educational!! In fact I think it’s rather condescending and patronizing!!

2- Not very entertaining! Now don’t get me wrong. I LIKE THE ANIMALS!! I don’t like the little drama play. It doesn’t have “re-watchability”!!

3- It’s the best ride in the place! Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it isn’t! The safari is good! It’s very, very good! But it ain’t no Pirates, Splash, Mansion, JC, ToT, Spaceship Earth, or even R&RC!! And AK should have one of those!!

d-r
03-18-2003, 07:16 PM
you know I guess I missed the "educational" intention part. I just think it is very cool looking and pretty.

YoHo
03-18-2003, 09:19 PM
Yoho, I have been to the San Diego zoo. And I have ridden the monorail, et al. It's nice but if you really think the Pangani or Jungle Trek are better attractions than KS then we are way too far apart to even bother discussing this one...


I think they are better attractions, because they don't fail to be more then mediocre.
They are walking trails past extremely well themed animal enclosures. They claim to be nothing more and I would challenge you to find better done areas in any zoo in the world.

KS on the other hand claims to be a lot of things and fails at most of them. That doesn't mean its not an enjoyable attraction or that somehow d-r is weird for expereancing that moment. KS, however is supposed to be a PotC, a ToT, a SM. The hype says it is, its pre-emenance in the park says it is, the acctual expereance IS NOT! If you really think that KS is better then San Diego Wild Animal Park, or San Diego Zoo, or Seattle, then we really do have nothing to talk about, because or views of what makes a good animal attraction can never be reconciled.

d-r
03-19-2003, 01:05 AM
Well, I've been to the san diego zoo/animal park.

You know, people just have different perceptions.

crusader
03-19-2003, 08:15 AM
Instead we got a place that uses everything as decorations to staple onto average, run-of-the-mill attractions. Real animals stuck on stage like props, cardboard dinosaurs are glued onto roller coasters, and nothing that hasn't been done a hundred times before is presented. There's nothing special at Animal Kingdom and that's a true shame.

We absolutely did with AK. No one seems to be expressing why that was? My recollection is that WDW was attempting to open this park ahead of IOA and in doing so streamlined everything right down to the entertainment.


3- It’s the best ride in the place! Sounds like a good thing, right? Well it isn’t! The safari is good! It’s very, very good! But it ain’t no Pirates, Splash, Mansion, JC, ToT, Spaceship Earth, or even R&RC!! And AK should have one of those!!

I have only visited this park once. I rode the safari which was hyped as being something so much more than it delivered. I interpret this "best ride" analogy as being compared only to the other AK attractions - of which there are virtually none to speak of. The AK is lacking in so many areas that it is the first park either cut out of someone's schedule or limited in terms of visiting.

Personally I will not miss the "little red" show. It looked silly and no one operating the ride seemed to enjoy it either.

Watching animals try to mount one another or defacating is available at every major city in America and does not cost $53.00/person to view.

airlarry!
03-20-2003, 08:20 AM
Like many of us here, I have my own preconceived notions of what is a good Disney attraction and what's not, I'm obviously influenced by the discussions that we have had around here...especially when it comes to AK, a park that has basically been around as long as I've been on the DIS.

So, in order to get a fresh perspective, I asked one of my scout den leaders, who just got back from her first trip to WDW with her boys about AK...specifically what did she think about the KS.

And puhlease, I did not prep the question in anyway or try to influence her. It was a simple question brought up as we talked about her trip. Something in the nature of "How was the safari ride? How did your boys enjoy it? What did ya'll think of the little red poaching chase scene?"

She said her boys thought the ride was okay. They enjoyed seeing the animals, although she said most were asleep. (A problem I haven't really had before, but I try to go when the insiders say the animals are stirring).

As for the little red scene, she said, "Oh you mean the camp thing?" She said they didn't really pay much attention to the radio and the chase...but that the boys enjoyed the fast paced exit.

What does this all mean? It means Ei$ner must go...err...did I say that out loud? It shows me that Yoho! is right that for the park...KS is a great attraction, but that compared to the rest of the world, it did not generate enough wow to really impress this first time visitor. (Who did not like IOA--she said too many thrill rides!)

d-r
03-20-2003, 06:38 PM
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