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Dznefreek
03-13-2003, 04:25 PM
I do not know if this has been discussed before but there was a small blurb in "Central Floirda Business" on Monday from Cast Members.

It stated they are fed up with the "pseudo" security check points at each resort when anyone can jump on a bus and enter a resort with no questions asked.

Comments, thoughts. . . . . .

TiggerFreak
03-13-2003, 06:42 PM
But does the bus have a trunk?

It's one of those things we all need to get used to.
It may not be the catch all, but asking for ID does no harm to anyone and hey, some evil doers are not that smart or devious!
It might just catch one someday.

HB2K
03-14-2003, 04:07 AM
The Sept. 11th Hijackers had ID. And the security is doing nothing meaningful with the ID check.

What's the purpose?

I'm all for meaningful security checks. I've been pulled over before flights for the extra screening at the gates, and I've gladfully let the screeners search my bags (it's amazing how thourough they were).

But I'm not interested in wasting my time on something that is being done just so someone can say "Hey, we're doing something!".

Shells9
03-14-2003, 05:31 AM
After last weekend's visit, I think the purpose of the security check points is more just for a deterrent and a visual presence than for actual security. For example, I had a daypack, with 3 very obvious compartments. Upon entry to each park we visited (AK, Studios & Epcot), I would open one of the main pockets. At each location, the guard simply peered very unintrusively into the bag. Never once was I asked to open any other compartments. Not that my day pack was large, but, I could have fit any number of potentially harmful objects in there, and it may have gone undetected.

I wondered maybe if my physical appearance (mild mannered caucasain female) had something to do with it, or if these folks really did not want to intrude. It kind of angered me. If these folks need to be there for my safety, make it worth my while to ensure what everyone is bringing in. If they are not going to do that, then eliminate the cost and lines associated with these folks, and let me have a nice day.

A job worth doing is worth doing well.

KNWVIKING
03-14-2003, 09:58 AM
We have experienced everything from very aggresive searches to simple peeks inside the belt bag. I don't feel any more or less safe because of the checks, but if it deters any just one person with bad-intent then it is worth the effort.

ErikdaRed
03-14-2003, 10:14 AM
Security should either be total, or not done at all. The security checks at the park gates are a joke. One could easily cover their entire body with C4 and just stroll right in. They are checking bags for one reason only, to make you "feel" safe. The same goes for ID checks at hotels. All you would need to do is check in, then feel free to drive in a car full of explosives.

smjj
03-14-2003, 11:12 PM
If I remember correctly, the resorts were gated long before Sept. 11th. Its purpose was to stop people from free parking at the resorts then hopping on a bus and going to the parks. The Sept. 11th attack just had them clamp down more than they were. As for the parks, the security is about as much as can be expected without causing such a bottleneck at the parks that people would stop coming. If they hired enough to really check everyone like at an airport, then expect your ticket price to skyrocket...smjj

goofymom23
03-14-2003, 11:25 PM
Just being there is a deterent. I think it works great, I mean there have been no incidents have there. You don't know what all a trained security person can notice from a simple glance. Relax you are as secure at Disney as anywhere.

HB2K
03-15-2003, 07:18 AM
Just being there is a deterent. I think it works great, I mean there have been no incidents have there. You don't know what all a trained security person can notice from a simple glance. Relax you are as secure at Disney as anywhere.

I disagree about "just being there" being a deterrent, stating that security works great because there haven't been any incidents just just plain misleading.

There were no "incidents" in recent memory prior to Sept. 11, 2001. There have been no completed "incidents" in the air since Sept 11, 2001. Doesn't mean security is working. It just means the monsters who want to comit these acts have not been ready to act (a scarrier thought).

Terrorists have long been rumored to be looking for soft targets. In my opinion, WDW offers such a target. A flimsy search of your bag before you enter, and just looking at your drivers license before entering a hotel doesn't offer any hard protection.

These bombers are suicide bombers. They WEAR the explosive....they don't carry it in a bag. The terrorists have Driver's licenses...I'm sure they'd be HAPPY to flash them on the way to a resort they'd be targeting....

If WDW isn't going to conduct MEANINGFUL security tests, then get rid of them. All a "showy" security check does is stop well meaning guests.

Gillian
03-15-2003, 08:21 AM
Not all of the resort guards check ID. We did a fair amount of resort hopping by car, mostly for meals, on our trip last week. Out of the times I drove, I was only asked for ID once. The guy looked at it and waved me through. Another time I had to write down my name but was not asked for ID. At one resort I simply said we were having dinner at the hotel & was let in. I was fully prepared to show ID & give confirmation #s for our PS, but wasn't asked.

If cast members are truly concerned, they should start with enforcing the checks that are supposed to be in place already. Maybe anyone can just hop on a bus & get into a resort, but driving into a resort or entering a park is almost as easy.

Dznefreek
03-16-2003, 03:27 PM
I think it works great, I mean there have been no incidents have there If you only knew what goes on in the parks and property wide on a daily basis that is not discussed.......................openly.

Chip 'n Dale Express
03-16-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by HB2K
I disagree about "just being there" being a deterrent, stating that security works great because there haven't been any incidents just just plain misleading.

First off... the security bag checks at the theme parks do have a purpose other than to provide a sense of security. You would be AMAZED at how many weapons and other contraband items have been denied entry to our parks.



Originally posted by HB2K
If WDW isn't going to conduct MEANINGFUL security tests, then get rid of them. All a "showy" security check does is stop well meaning guests.

You have no clue as to the depth of our security. There's a LOT that you don't see going on. A lot more than you would even think, actually.

Bob O
03-16-2003, 04:50 PM
I would agree with HB2K!!!
If you arent going to use the security checkpoints to make extensive searchs for contraband then you shouldnt do it at all. Its a waste of time and money to just have them for pr purposes!!! Which seems to be the case from these reports and what i saw at DL in Dec.

d-r
03-16-2003, 07:00 PM
There have been threads here about potential terrorism in the theme parks, mostly they have boiled down to "I'm not afraid" kind of posts (and I agree, I'm not afraid).

But I'm wondering what people think might happen to the parks if there was a terrorist attack. What might the short- and long-term impacts be in terms of people's perceptions, economics, and so on?

Here is a recent news story-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-10-mosque-usat_x.htmhttp://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-10-mosque-usat_x.htm


BTW, it kind of bugs me for people to post about their perceptions of security flaws in such an open forum, but that's just me-

DR

HB2K
03-16-2003, 07:01 PM
While you may be may be an expert when it comes to transportation, I am a criminal justice grad and let me tell you this.

If I wanted to (And I have no interest in doing this) I could get MULTIPLE weapons into that park. The flimsy bag checks are pathetic (Hi there, you want to check my bag? Fine, just don't check my sneakers)...the security check at the entrance to the resorts are worse (Hi there, here's my license. Just don't look in my trunk).

While I'm sure there are some things that happen under cover, if someone had ill intentions, attacking WDW would be a easy, or soft, target.

If you want my license, match it with something proving I've got a reason to be there (ressie, PS, etc). If you want it to say "hi", don't waste my time.

P.S. The only weapons they pull off of the guests entering the parks are the ones which were in all probablity never going to be used. The people who are going to use their weapons would never allow themselves to be tripped up by a bag check when there are so many EASY alternatives (they'd just wear the damned thing).

P.P.S. If the average guest looks at the secuity and sees it as pointless and useless, what kind of statement does that make?

HB2K
03-16-2003, 07:09 PM
There have been threads here about potential terrorism in the theme parks, mostly they have boiled down to "I'm not afraid" kind of posts (and I agree, I'm not afraid).

There's a difference between being afraid and being aware. It's silly to ignore potential risks using the whole "they've won" attitude.

But I'm wondering what people think might happen to the parks if there was a terrorist attack. What might the short- and long-term impacts be in terms of people's perceptions, economics, and so on?

Tremendous question.

Personally I think it would be a horror show in the short term. Think of the ramafications. If someone wanted to attack a showing of Fantasmic, they could instantly have access to 3000-5000 innocent victims. Then depending on the attack (chem or bio) it could be spread if airborne. Or since the terrorists seem to like synchronized attacks, a team of terrorists attack each park, each resort, and the infastructure at the same time....an absolute horror show.

It would take a LONG time and a LOT of PR work to get people to feel comfortable about WDW. Look at the WTC. It'll be interesting to see how many people will flock to place their offices in the new buildings (a little different than WDW since the land is so valuable in NYC...but still interesting).

I think WDW could recover in the long term (assuming they company doesn't bury their head in the sand and make more cuts to off set this down time), but the short term effects would haunt them for at least 5 -7 years in my opinion.

disneyholic family
03-16-2003, 11:06 PM
considering that one of the people who was convicted for the 1993 bombing of the world trade center worked for several years at WDW and was well acquainted with the tunnels, one has to assume that everyone in his terrorist organization is also well aware of the physical plant of WDW......
makes you think....about that as well as who else might be working there now...

as for the security that we experienced when we were there this past summer......i had the impression that at least some of the guards (who clearly seemed to be law enforcement types, perhaps retired police officers) were profiling....

mickeyminnie
03-17-2003, 07:51 AM
are the main and only security force in WDW. I am sure there are cameras all over the place and people watching for out of the ordinary behavior. A person sneaking a weapon into Disney placed on the body will most likely act a bit different than a person who is pushing a stroller with kids, iykwim. I also think there are probably plain clothes security agent walking around. Heck if the local mall can afford a security presence I am sure there is more at Disney than a few guards at the gates.

And while they may not find all think of how much stuff they are pulling that used to just walk in.

smjj
03-17-2003, 08:23 AM
From what I understand, they routinely find guns, knifes, alcohol, and other stuff at these checks. I am sure these items were being brought into the parks by people long before the security checks and 9/11.. The guards are not armed, if they did find a bag full of explosives, what do they do, tell the persons "hey, you can't bring that stuff in here, now get out". I aggree with the feeling the checks are mostely for fluff and just to say if something happens well we were checking, see all these items we have confiscated!. I think we are all getting paranoid and seeing a terrorist behind every tree and that just what the bad guys want..smjj

raidermatt
03-17-2003, 12:00 PM
Security should either be total, or not done at all. Then I guess there should be no security anywhere, since none of it is "total".

Security is rarely about providing 100% assurance nothing will happen. Its about making things difficult enough to deter most would-be trouble-makers, or convince them to find an easier target. This is balanced with what the patrons are willing to submit to, and what makes them comfortable.

Unless we are willing to tour the parks naked and submit to body cavity searches, security entering the parks will not be "complete".

Disney security does not provide 100% assurance nothing will happen, therefore it is not complete. But it does provide a measure of protection and deterance, and it is certainly more stringent than many other events in public venues I have attended since 9/11.

But I'm wondering what people think might happen to the parks if there was a terrorist attack. What might the short- and long-term impacts be in terms of people's perceptions, economics, and so on? Yes, a good question. Short-term, we'd have much heavier security everywhere, and folks would tend to stay close to home, just like after 9/11. Gradually, things would "ease-up". If WDW were the target, obviosly the economic impact to Disney would be devastating, probably even moreso than the impact 9/11 had on the airlines. Whatever type of security was the victim of the breech would be beefed up at similar venues going forward, just as airline security became the focus after 9/11. Just some random thoughts...

BTW, it kind of bugs me for people to post about their perceptions of security flaws in such an open forum, but that's just me- There's nothing being discussed here that wouldn't be known by anyone serious about causing trouble. When flaws are kept secret, all it does is keep the public from demanding the flaws be addressed.

KNWVIKING
03-17-2003, 12:43 PM
Anyone know what US/IOA or SW is doing ? I realize they are not the American icon target WDW is, but are they following Disney's lead ?

Dznefreek
03-17-2003, 04:00 PM
Your basic "poke a stick in your bag" and move it around.

WDSearcher
03-17-2003, 04:53 PM
For those saying that security at WDW is a joke, are you still going to WDW? Some of you must be, since you know the system and can talk about how it's been done (or not) when you've visited parks and resorts.

So ... if security is a joke, but you're still going to the parks, you've obviously felt secure there all along or, presumeably, you'd have stopped going once WDW was listed as a "potential target." But if you feel safe enough to go there regardless of the type of security offered, what's the problem?

Originally posted by disneyholic family
considering that one of the people who was convicted for the 1993 bombing of the world trade center worked for several years at WDW and was well acquainted with the tunnels, one has to assume that everyone in his terrorist organization is also well aware of the physical plant of WDW......
makes you think....about that as well as who else might be working there now...

Please. Anyone who ever took a "Behind the Magic" tour or watched the Discovery Channel special can figure out the tunnels. There have probably been a hundred diagrams available on the Internet for years. There could have been terrorists working there since day one. Bottom line is .... nothing has happened. Petty crime, sure. Terrorism? Nope.

This line of thinking is exactly what the press is doing. Creating this paranoia about what "could" happen. Terrorists shopped at malls in Central Florida too, and there could be all sorts of their friends and compatriots still working at Yankee Candles or Beneton or serving up food in the food court. Better not shop or eat anywhere! You never know who's working there now... :rolleyes:

:earsboy:

disneyholic family
03-17-2003, 08:02 PM
the CM who told me about it (and who worked together with him for 2 years) didn't seem to think it was trivial....
but you're right regarding anywhere, anytime and very difficult to stop.....

Mr D
03-17-2003, 10:22 PM
The heck with the gate security, if its nothing but a mental placebo of security for the guests so much the better!

But the real security is the "supposed guests at SOG" that have a permanent booking, with periodic personnell rotation,wear body armor,have earbuds and throat mics....

Or maybe its just a rumor?;)

ContemporaryGirl
03-17-2003, 11:24 PM
Disney is about getting away from reality..............and right now, what a wonderful thing!!!! Lets let Disney do their job, and enjoy the magic!!!:earsgirl: :earsboy: :tongue: :tongue:

BRERALEX
03-18-2003, 09:43 AM
I've been fortunate enough to gain some access and insight into some of the technology measures at WDW used to aid security. While I won't share the precise measures because I was asked not to, I can assure you that the resort guard posts and park baggage checks are, at best, diversionary tactics and good ways to slow down crowds enough to allow technology to analyze guests in ways humans simply can't do as efficiently.

ok. scary. extremely interesting.....................scoop............. ...as ron said to hermoine....'your scary sometimes, do you know that.'

Minniesotaluvsmickey
03-22-2003, 05:49 PM
cover an entire body with c4 and just stroll in

Since the temps in Orlando have been consistantly in the 80's, I would think someone with c4 strapped all over them would look quite suspicious.
The best security is awareness. Awareness of your surroundings and people reporting anything even slightly suspicious. We can all do our part in keeping each other safe in WDW or anywhere else. We are all in this together! Be safe all!:)