DH won't budge on this one

[Rock'n Robin]

Today DH and I had a conference for my son at preschool. He will be 5 in June. I had indications last fall that he may be behind maturity wise so we had him go 5 days a week from that point instead of 3.
While that has helped, his teachers remain convinced that he should wait another year. They gave us several articles on kindergarten readiness. They said while he is smart and very verbal, he is also small for his age, is just now getting better at sitting still for a long story, and cries easily (he cries when he gets yelled at or if he thinks you are mad at him). What he needs is not something I can work on this summer, like flash cards or with the leap pad--it's maturity that comes with time. Even found out his best friend there will be 6 this June and was in the same boat last year, and his mom is "so glad" they kept him in one more year.
I have been wondering about this since he started--was hoping 2 years of preschool would do the trick.
DH is adamant that he is going to K. Even if our district did offer readiness K (which they cut) he said he would not be going. He was very nice about it with the teacher, but said unless something really significant this summer shows him he is not ready, he will be starting K this fall. Plus (and I hate it when he says this) "His mom has all summer to work with him". Not that I don't have new classes to prepare for or anything!
I know about the advantages of holding back from K--also know some disadvantages--please don't post stories about how great a decision it was to hold your child back, it will just depress me further--DH is a wonderful guy, but when he gets this stubborn nothing can shake him--even though they have college degrees and I have a Master's in Education. At least we still have half day kindergarten so it won't be so bad--and I can work with him on anything else he may fall behind on--I just keep hearing my neighbor who wishes she held her youngest back, since in 6th grade the girl still has a lot of trouble keeping up with her peers. I guess I just needed to vent since it looks like I won't be able to win this one.
Perhaps if you have stories about successful kids who were NOT held back it would make me feel better!
Robin M.

[lisajl]

OM goodness...I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes.

I'm sorry. My DH and I make these decisions together.
Our son is finally going to K-next fall. He will be 6 and tall....and ready.

Good luck...to you and your son.

[bsnyder]

Robin,

What are your DH's reasons for so adamantly opposing holding him back?

[Kteacher]

I have seen lots of kids come through my classroom who started the year in September a little behind and with the right help and support from teachers have surprised everyone with how well they did. Meet with the principal at the school and observe the teachers. Let the teachers know your concerns up front during screening. i have some great success stories in my classroom this year- i am so proud when I see kids with very little letter recognition at the beginning of the year writing their entire name with caps and lower case letters:Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc And when a kid has that "lightbulb moment" when they get a concept it's like magic:D Nothing more to say but {{{{hugs}}}}to you

[Michelle]

Robin, my daughter was FOUR when she started kindergarten (the cut-off in California at that time was December) and although she was definitely immature she was exceedingly BRIGHT and there was no doubt about starting her then.

She did have to go through an adjustment period getting used to the routine of sitting still, listening and following directions. It wasn't always easy but it was most definitely the best decision for her. She's STILL immature (in 4th grade) but excels academically and I have no qualms about having started her in kindergarten when I did.

Your son may surprise you with his adjustment to kindergarten. :) Just give it a chance and give it time.

Good luck!

[Kallison]

My DH was the same way and I said Sorry no it is my decision since I know I will be the one dealing with the homework and school issues. He will regret it when he gets older. I work with learning support kids in middle school and most of them are 12 year olds who have late birthdays and could have really benefited from another grow year. My son would be so stressed out as a middle schooler now and is also on the small side. You cannot catch them up over a summer. If the teacher recommended he stay back another year then no way would I let my ego about my child not starting K on time get in the way. School is much more intense than it was when we were growing up.

[SilverLily]

I think it is a shame that your husband won't trust in your expertise and that of your son's teacher.

I think it is a shame that your husband is putting your son's best interests second after his own pride.

If you and your son's teacher think that holding him back is what is best for him, you need to stick up to your husband for your child's sake.

Does your son and husband like sports? One thing I have heard mothers in similar situations is point out that their son will be bigger than other kids if he is held back, which would be an advantage in most sports. Sad that they have to resort to using that argument, but sometimes it is the only one that gets through to some dads.

[caitycaity]

i was also 4 when i started kindergarden, and i was fine. like wmmichelle's daughter, i had to adjust, but i made great grades all through school and was fine. :)

[jipsy]

I never went to kindergarten. My parents sent me right to first grade when I was 5. I did fine. You have to do what is best for your child though. What are his reasons for being so adamant the child starts? Does he think it makes him look like a bad parent?

[WilmaBud]

I wrote one reply, and I didn't post it. But I can't stay away from this subject without commenting! What do YOU think is best for your son? You have the master's in education. There is NO way you should let your husband dictate anything , regarding your child or anything else in your lives together. Your child's best interest and welfare should be the ONLY considerations when making this decision. I know the posters saying they or their child did just fine after starting school early are trying to make you feel better, but really, no one else's experience has any bearing on your son. Every child is unique. You know your child best - do what's best for him. Your husband will just have to deal with it if things don't go his way. As some other poster asked, why is it such a big deal to your husband anyway? And why are his feelings or opinions more important than anyone else's? Empower yourself!!

[jel0511]

Rock'n Robin - I can TOTALLY relate to your story. My DD will be 5 in May, and during my last conference in Dec with her preschool teachers, they also recommended holding her back. I'm like your DH and believe that she'll be find in kindergarten. Her issue is also a maturity issue. She is VERY shy with the teachers, and doesn't listen to directions all the time. They feel she could do well, if she was in either a small classroom, or has a nurturing teacher. They just don't want her to get "lost." Again, nothing I can work on over the summer, just hope it will come. I've talked to MANY people, as well as teachers, and they've all advised me to send my DD. Not all kids get the opportunity to go to preschool, so some kids coming into kindergarten will be behind my DD anyway. The one thing that does hold me back, is that we have full-day kindergarten in my district. You have a half-day program, and I believe that is an advantage to you situation. When I meet with the teachers for the last time before the end of the year (probably in May) I'll discuss at length again, their concerns if there are any. She seems to be improving amazingly and I think she is MUCH better off than she was in December. If the teachers are adament about keeping her back, DH and I have decided that a private school might be in order. I don't want to hold her back, mainly for social reasons, which will creep up later on. Even though she might be the smartest one if she is held back, she also might be ostrisized for being the oldest. I didn't have the greatest experience growing up, always picked on etc, and I wouldn't want that for my DD. If placing her in a more nurturing, smaller student to teacher ratio, will solve the problem, than that's it. I wouldn't want my DD to be the brunt of jokes, just because I didn't think she was ready for kindergarten. When I went to kindergarten, I didn't go to preschool, and I turned out fine. I know things are different now, but I have faith in my DD that she'll be fine. I'll be there for support and work with her teachers to make sure she succeeds.

[WDWHound]

I find it interesting that so many people feel that your husband's only reason for doing this is "pride". There are benifits and disadvantages to either approach, but very few people here seem to be willing to think that he may be considerering these and making a desision that he believes is best. This does not mean he can ignore your views (which he appears to be doing), but his input should not be ignored either.

Rock'n Robin, I can offer no advice, only my prayers that you and your husband will be able to work this out and find the best solution for your son together.

[WilmaBud]

With all due respect, Hound, the decision is not the husband's to make alone. That's what I have a problem with. What valid reason would there be to dismiss and disregard everyone else's viewpoint? That's what points to pride. People who are married should make decisions together , especially decisions impacting the welfare of their children.

[WDWHound]

Wilmabud. You are correct of course, and that was what I was trying to say, but I apparently did a very bad job of it. I have reworded my last post to be a clearer on that point. Niether parant can veto the other on this. Somehow, some way, an agreement has to be reached as to the best course of action.

[WilmaBud]

I agree, Hound! :D

[Bichon Barb]

My first son is a November baby. Our cut off date is 12/1. We took the plunge and put him in K at 4 years old. Things started a little slow with things like fine motor skills, but it didn't take long for him to catch up. I've read that birthdates don't matter by 4th or 5th grade. (He's in 4th now and doing great!)

On the other hand, we have two boys in the neighborhood who are also November kids. Both of their fathers are involved in sports (one is a high school football coach and the other is head of athletics for our district). They both held their sons back so that they would be large for their grade and would have more of a chance to excel in sports. You might want to try that one on DH! LOL.

[Jenzebelle]

I started K almost 4mos before my 5th birthday.
I had never been to preschool, but I could read, so my parents put me in Kindeergarten instead of holding me back.

It was great for me as far as academics. I always made great grades, except for math. But putting me in Kindergarten without first sending me to preschool was a bad decision. I had little contact with children of my age, so I always had some social problems.

I'm sorry you and your DH can't come to an agreement about next year. I think if both you and your son's teacher think it's best he stay back, then he should probably stay back.

Is your husband worried that he might get picked on for his age? If so, I definitely don't think that would be the case. I know lots of people that were held back before Kindergarten (including both my brother and sister- my sister will be 2mos from her 19th birthday when she graduates). They've never been teased about it.
In fact - my sister's friends all thought it was cool she got her license first.

[Pembo]

My ds will be 5 in September. He's going to Kindergarten. He's academically ready but I know that he is a little immature. His preschool teachers say that in spite of his immaturity they believe he will do fine. Another year in preschool would be too boring for him. He definitely is more grown-up at school than at home.

So next fall-we can commiserate on if we made the right decision and also how we can help our kids. ;)

I'm of the opinion that if they are "of age" to go, they should go. Just my opinion, please don't flame me!

[CamColt]

I started K when I was 4 and I was always one of the youngest in my class. The cutoff was Dec 31, and my birthday is Dec 28. I think it helped me to mature since I was always around older kids. I never had any problems with grades(well, there was algebra in HS, but even now at age 31, that doesnt make sense to me;) ). The only "problem" I had was that I was the last of my friends to turn 21, which stunk, but hey, now Im the youngest of them all and can rub that in.
So, Im a firm believer of going when they are supposed unless there is an extreme situation. Could you wait until this summer and see how he is then, and make the decision according to that?

[lmj]

I sent my son to kindergarten this year. He turned five in September and had been to preschool for two years already. I wasn't really sure if he was ready but I did not want to send him back to the same preschool for another year. He would have been with 3 year olds as this school does not separate the ages.

He has done all right this year but I have decided to have him repeat kindergarten next year. He just is not ready for a whole day. Writing and reading is still so much work for him. I don't want him to get frustrated with school so early. I don't regret sending him this year but I think he will really benefit from kindergarten again. At this point it doesn't really matter to him. He says he wants some more practice with his letters.

I don't think he would be scarred for life if we were to send him on and I think you son will be fine with whatever you decide.

[kinlaw6450]

My brother forced his 5 year old into Kindergarten this year. THe child was not mature enough and has suffered all year. Now to top it off he is definately being retained because he didn't master the academic requirements for having to deal with the emotional strain. Now my brother is really hating himself for putting the kid through that...

[Pin Wizard]

With all due respect, Robin, your husband is discounting if not ignoring the opinions of two professionals...your child's teacher and you with a Masters in Education!! Around here parents are sending their kids to kinder when they are 6! They want them to be the whizzes with the A's. I wonder how your husband would feel if your son ends up being held back in an upper grade. In DS's class one boy was left back in 2nd, another was left back in 3rd. I would rather start kinder a year later than have to deal with a child who was held back a year later on. Good luck!

[Pinnie]

This topic is near and dear to my heart.

I am a teacher in a Young 5s program. Our district has changed to a literacy based kindergarten and strongly urges parents of young 5s (fall birthdays) to take advantage of this free 5 day a week, 3 hour a day program. We don't consider it "holding them back" rather we believe we are giving them the gift of time. There is NO other place to catch a child later with immaturity issues.

I can speak from my own experience with my oldest son. He was only 4 when he entered Kindergaten. Yes, he could always do the cognitive work and he scored well on standardized tests. When the "youngness" really kicked in was in Middle School and High School. He always was one of the last ones date, get his driver's license, go through puberty (and that iwas a BIG issue!) etc. It was always difficult for him socially to deal with pressures of his grade peers. As it turned out, he generally hung out and befriended the students a year younger. Also, he graduated with honors from high school at the age of 17 with a few scholarships but he was not ready to go off to college and make that break. I only wish I had held him back and now I am a big advocate of Young 5s.

I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with as a cohesively as possible. It should not be about ego. I strongly urge you to look again at the advice of the teachers who know the curriculum your child will be exposed too. Here in our district Kindergarten is NOT what it was a few years ago. We are a literacy based program and the children must be able to work independantly on journals, My Books, and be able to follow directions in a computer lab setting, just to name a few.

I leave you with this quote:

"Childhood should be a jouney not a race."

Best wishes
pin
remember the magic
DVC/BCVs 2002

[mom2boys]

My friends daughter would not speak to her teachers her first year of preschool. The only time they heard her voice was the one day when her brother came to school & she showed him around. The next year she went to a pre-K at a different school & wouldn't stop talking. (!st year 3 yr old class; next yr 4 yr old class). The pre-K school goes through 8th grade. This year (as a 5 yr old) she was placed in the accelorated Kindergarten. A change of scenery may be what your son needs.

[MerryPoppins]

Years ago, when DS was in Kindergarten his teacher informed me that although he was very bright and could do the work, he was behind the other kids in development. He was one of the youngest in the class. DH didn't want him to be "held back". Partially from pride, partially because he didn't want him labeled. We discussed it at great length and I made him see that it would be in his best interest to have another year under his belt rather than struggling along for the next few years.

We put him in Transition. It was the best thing we ever did. He is an honor student in the 9th grade. He never struggles with his work. I have no doubt that he would have caught up eventually, but the extra year did wonders for him socially. His handwriting improved by leaps and bounds.

I'd try to talk to your husband some more. Ask him to examine why he feels the way he does. If it doen't work, I'm sure it will be okay in the long run. I just think your son would have an easier time of it for the next few years if he'd listen to you.

[Mermaid02]

I think there are some maturity issues that can ONLY be dealt with by going to school.... what I mean is, they have to be in school in order to mature (if that makes any sense). My son was 5 last March and started kindergarten in September- frankly he wasn't very mature and a lot of people told me I should keep him home another year.... I am so glad I didn't. He went to school and blossomed! It was exactly the change he needed.

I (of course) don't know your son- but I just wanted to tell you about our positive experience. I hope you and your dh can work this out so you are both happy with the decision. Good luck!

[Mishetta]

Wow! I couldn't agree more with what "Pinnie" posted! She is absolutely right about giving your child the "gift of time." I also know what turmoil you're in right now since we lived it too, a couple years ago!

We struggled greatly over holding our son back. His pre-school teachers strongly urged us to put him in Begindergarten or the Early 5's program (whatever it's called in your area). We requested that our son take the Gazelle (?) Test & he failed miserably. We still didn't want to hold him back, but after lengthy discussions on this (my DH & I made this decision together), we decided to put him in the Early 5's program & we would check with the teacher a few weeks after school started to see how our DS was progressing. The school informed us that if he was truly ready for Kindergarten, they had no problem with moving him up within those first few weeks. Well, our son was not ready to move up, in fact, there were 2 boys in Kindergarten that were moved to the Early 5's program.

Then... (not to make this too long but...) when my DS was in Kindergarten, there was a boy in his class that was obviously struggling. This boy started being really disruptive because he just couldn't stay focused on what was being taught. He couldn't sit still & he just couldn't keep up with the class. He had lots of behavorial issues which came up as the school year progressed & I firmly believe that all those behavorial issues came about because he just didn't "get" Kindergarten. At the end of the year, I did hear that the teacher recommended this boy repeat Kindergarten. Oh...and this all happened in a PRIVATE SCHOOL. Make the best decision for your son & don't worry about anything else.

I know you didn't want to hear this but our son is doing excellent in school in every aspect....academically & socially. I feel it is all due to the extra year we gave him as a gift. School is so much more intense today than it was when I was growing up & I know in my heart that my DS would have never been able to get through all the tough work he does now in 1st grade if he were one year younger.

Just pray about it & let your heart guide the way....

[allicat]

If you go ahead and place DS in K and he struggles all year and has to be retained, Im sure DH wont like that either! Wouldnt it be better to give DS that extra year so he is ready to succeed in K?
If DH isnt going to listen to you, his wife with a Masters, Im not sure what would change his mind!

[Serena]

I'm sorry Robin.

My sister insisted on pushing her girls too, and they both had to take kindergarten again.

[disykat]

You want reassurance - here it comes.

I am also a teacher who specializes in K and 1st grade. IMO if normal 5 year olds cannot be in kindergarten, then the curriculum and the age limit should be adjusted accordingly. I feel strongly (as your dh does obviously) that unless there are very good reasons, a child should go in when they are age appropriate. DS #2 has a late May birthday and is immature. I put him in and he does fine and is loving school. He is not the top of his class - my ego is surviving and I am confident that the age advantage will go away soon. I am giving my son the "gift" of not spending his entire 18th year and part of his 19th in high school.

I went to school with a November birthday back when the cutoff was middle of November. I admit to being behind in the early grades (although I didn't realize it then), but was reading in the high group by 3rd grade and finished #14 in my class of 200. My brother was in the same boat. DH had a May birthday and was very immature. He learned to read in 3rd grade and was class valedictorian in high school.

Your dh does have a right to be involved in the decision as well. Sometimes in marriage there are decisions that cannot be made 50/50 and end up being to the one with the strongest opinion. I'd try compromising by putting off the decision and if you think there ARE extenuating circumstances - find the proof for your husband.

[Pooh Girl 71]

Wow...I had no idea you could determine when your child starts kindergarten. I hope you and your DH can come to an agreement that is best for your child.

I started Kindergarten at 4..cutoff was 12-31 then and I turned 5 in Oct. I had NEVER been to pre-school or a babysitter before. Needless to say, I had some adjustment issues lol. I did very well academically and had started reading when I was 3 1/2. I was also the tallest kid in my class so I guess that helped some.

[annemariec]

I think it depends on so many variables as to what is right for your child.

On a positive note - I taught Head Start for several years and I witnessed children blossoming and maturing from exposure to other children, daily routine, and encouragement. Much like Mermaid02 described.

My nagging thought is, I wonder if he would become bored with a third year of preschool?

I hope you and your husband can reach a satisfactory agreement.
Annemarie

*edited to add- IMO height shouldn't be a hinderance to entering Kindergarten.

[annemariec]

Pooh Girl71, I'm pretty sure Kindergarten isn't even mandatory still!

Annemarie

[Pooh Girl 71]

Originally posted by annemariec
Pooh Girl71, I'm pretty sure Kindergarten isn't even mandatory still!

Annemarie

really? LOL I'm glad I don't have a small child anymore. I am out of the loop!

[cruisnfamily]

Why not go ahead and send him? If it doesn't work out or he has "issues" then he can just repeat kindergarten again. I think unless there is a real documentable reason other than "maturity" he should just go ahead and try it. What's the harm? It's also possible that "big kid school" might be just what he needs to get that maturity.

Good Luck with this!:D

[Cindy B]

My daughter turned 5 on the first day of school.. yes, the first day.


It was "vogue" in our former district to keep them back, and let them "rule " the preschool for another year.

At the November conference her teacher stated that they weren't sure at first, but mid October she blossomed. Then we moved to a new school district in January.. the teacher says she is fine, even though she is the youngest. She is one of the more attentive, and she doesn't need enrichment or full day readiness (optional full day program for kids that need a little help) that MOST of her classmates have.

I have a conference today as well.


As for me, they had to wait until I turned four (mid November) to start kindergarten. My mom and my former teacher said I was reading books to the class!

Did I do fine academically? Yes. But socially its was challenging.

[Libbysmom2000]

Whatever your final decision is your son already has a big advantage over many other children, a mom who really cares about his emotional well being.

We're debating the same issue for our DD who's 3 1/2 now. She's very bright and has a good attention span but is emotionally young and small for her age, her birhtday is 8/30. I've read a lot of stories from every point of view. There isn't any easy answer to this.

One thing I can tell you is that one of the school we're looking at (we're considering private) won't accept kids with summer birthdays into kindergarten at age 5. In their experience (opened since late 1800's) a child who is at least 5 1/2 has the most success in their program.

Good luck.

[Rock'n Robin]

Wow, thanks for all the input. DH does have his valid reasons. He started K at age 4--his BDay is Sept. 28!!--and he did fine. His mom tells me he had mostly As throughout elementary and nothing went south until he discovered girls (which he freely admits).
Also, a lot of the behaviors that worry DS's teacher do not happen in front of DH. When DH tells DS to clean his room or whatever, he does it. He never cries. He isn't difficult. And believe me, DH is not The Great Santini or something where our kids live in fear, he is really great with them but firm. DS does get more coddled by me, and he spends his half day after preschool with my parents, who also tend to indulge him. DH believes that is part of his problems. However, a teacher with 20 (I hope) kids in a class doesn't have time to be firm with my DS every day.
I've seen a change since he started going 5 days a week and I was very hopeful that he had made the change and would be ready. Mrs. Nancy (his teacher) says it's about 50% in her mind if he should go, so it is a very close call. DH has promised to read the articles she gave us.
What is that "Gazelle" test? I know in our K screening that my girls had, they only had to say the alphabet, count to 20 and hop on one foot for 10 seconds(motor skills). If there was something more comprehensive maybe that would help our decision.
Another thing is that our district doesn't really hold kids back that I've seen-in our district report cards there is a zero retention rate--now I don't know if that's because they are all so smart they can move on, or if the district just wants a zero retention rate! It is one of the best districts in the area, got a perfect score on that last report card, so I know he'll get all the help he needs if he does go.
While I do have a Master's, my specialty is HS, which explains why I am so conflicted--I know some things about this issue, but not as much as Mrs. Nancy!
Sports are not a concern. If he stays small and wants to do sports, there are always soccer and running. If he doesn't play football it will probably make my life a lot easier anyhow.
Thanks for all the input--I'll keep reading. You guys are great. Luckily this decision won't have to be final for a while.
Robin M.

[TRAPPED-PARENT]

I'm a big believer in letting the parents make the final decision. It is important to receive sound, fact-based advice from the teachers/evaluators, but ultimately it has to be the parent's decision.

I just have to share this with you. My nephew was evaluated for K and the recommendation was that he be held back. My brother didn't like it but thought he'd better hold his son back because he didn't want his son to be "punished" by the teachers/administration for "crossing" them. Please note that this school district is VERY into sports and routinely holds BOYS back so they can be older/larger for HS sports!!!

Aaah? What is the motivation behind the recommendations?

In my son's case, he was kind of borderline. He has an early November birthday so we could have gone either way. The preschool teacher (who had him for 2 years and we totally trusted and respected) said that he would do well academically but his motor skills were a bit lacking. She said something like -- if you start him now, he may always be trying to play catch-up to the others (mid to lower half of class); whereas if you start him next year, he will be one of the older ones and always in the lead. Difference (possibly) in "self-esteem." The preschool teacher had two grown sons and she said they did "fine" but in hindsight she wishes she had held back one year.

Another example we were given. Picture this: 8th grade girl walking down the hall very nicely and maturely. Same age boy making motor-mouth noises as he runs down the hall. Hmmm ... yes, I can see that (I have both a boy and girl).

We decided to wait with my son and he has done fine ... although I don't think he ever caught up in the maturity level (18 and still acts like he's 6 ... LOL).

I have a late November birthday and started K (without preschool) at age 4. Things are different now in that you are in preschool at age 4-5 and start K when you are 6. They teach you to read in K, whereas when I went to school you were taught in 1st grade.

My son is about the same age as other kids in his class, so in hindsight, I'm glad we waited.

At the end of the day ... you and your husband need to make the decision for what's best for your son. Just because your DH was 4 when he started school should have nothing to do with this decision ... times are different and your DS is not your DH.

[TRAPPED-PARENT]

Oh, just something else to think about as part of the overall equation .....

My daughter (17) has a girl in her grade that is about a full year younger than everyone else in the class. She does fine both socially and academically, but does feel a bit different in that everyone else gets their driver's license a full year before she does, everyone else is able to get part-time jobs a full year before she does, etc.

It does make a difference, and (I hate to say it) maybe to boys more than girls.

You may want to check out how old most of the kids are starting school at the elementary your son would go to in order to see where his age would fit in compared to others.

[Mishetta]

Hi Robin ~ you asked about the "Gazelle" test...

That was given to my son per our request through his pre-school. They have an independent teacher come in (who has not had an exposure to the children taking the test) & it's aproximately 45 minutes to one hour long where they test them on all sort of things. I vaguely remember but I know that they had him do certain things with blocks, finish drawing a stick person (they were looking for specific things with these activities), recite the alphabet, know colors, be able to count up to 10, they had to do some sequencing task, know certain shapes, hop on right foot, hop on left foot, jump with both feet, walk a line. There was a speaking part to this test too where they would ask him simple questions & see how he answered them. There were several different drills. Depending on how the child scores in this test, shows whether they are ready for Kindergarten or not. Unfortunately, my DS was NOT. You can request this test. Sometimes teachers suggest children take this test but it is not mandatory. It's all up to the parents.

I hope this all works out for you. I know your struggle right now. We lived it. If this is such a issue with your DH, then just send DS to Kindergarten. The teacher will be able to determine whether he's keeping up or socially ready for K. If not, they can then move him to a Pre-K program (Begindergarten, Early 5's), if that is offered where you live. I did mention in my last post that 2 boys were moved from Kindergarten into my son's Begindergarten class within a few weeks of school starting.

It's a tough job being a parent, isn't it? No degree in the world can prepare you for this! :) We all do the best we can. Lots of luck to you!

[Pembo]

I'm reading this thread with great interest as well. My ds will be 4 when he starts all-day kindergarten in Sept. (his b-day is 9/15). I guess my final decision came when I realized we can always take him out of kindergarten or have him repeat it BUT if we put him in preschool again and he's bored, I can't put him in kindergarten mid-year. Just my 2 cents.

[MerryPoppins]

If you don't think you'd have the option of putting him in Kindergarten again, I would REALLY think hard about this coming year. I have taught preschool, first grade and third grade. I have a BS in Elementary Education. Just because your husband was mature enough and did great at 4 doesn't mean squat. My brother went through Kindergarten at 4 and did great, too. That doesn't change the fact that some kids just aren't there. It also doesn't mean that your son isn't bright. Some kids just mature faster than others.

If I wasn't 90% sure he'd be okay, I'd push for holding him back. His teacher knows his behavior at school better than either you or your DH. Listen to what she is telling you. She wants school to be a positive experience that makes him feel good about himself, not something that he dreads. Starting school before you are ready has the potential to destroy self-worth. Lots of kids in that situation will act out, become emotional, or simply stop trying.

In my experience, schools are better equipt to challenge kids who are ahead than they are at dealing with kids who lag behind. I've experienced this as a teacher and a parent. When you have a room full of Kindergarten kids, it's not always easy to give as much attention to those younger kids as they need. Imagine being teacher/stand in mom to a whole classroom of little kiddos. It's not an easy job. I found it much easier to keep the ones that were ahead challenged. They didn't need the motivation as much as the ones who were developmentally young.

Again, in the long run he would probably be okay. I just think the gift of an extra year can be a wonderful thing. Not because he'll be taller and can do better in sports, but because he'll feel more ready to take on the world. Good luck making your decision.

[Rock'n Robin]

That's a good point Pembo, I never thought of that. I imagine I could request repeating if necessary.
DH reminded me of one thing this morning--DS was not completely potty-trained when he started preschool. He had an accident at the sitter's the DAY before he started. I was afraid he'd be sent home the first week since they don't let kids in who aren't potty trained. Even though all summer I'd been saying 'you can't go to school if you don't go on the potty," it hadn't sunk in with him.
After the first day of preschool when he saw the other little boys going in the potty, he never had another accident.
This is a little hope that he will be one of those who "blossoms" in K. I know Mrs. Nancy said he has lot of friends. The only complaint he ever has is one boy (who Mrs. Nancy says likes to do things behind people's backs) who takes his glasses away. But he tells me he just says "Wesley, I need those glasses to see!" and he gets them back. I hope he doesn't get bullied for being small--he's only a little over 42" now and my DDs were 44" by now--but he doesn't cry when kids do stuff, only when adults reprimand him.
One more thing--when I signed him up for his screening in June, I noticed other K students signed up with later BDays--some girls, some boys. Some in July, and one girl even 9/24! So he definately won't be the youngest. We'll see how he does in Safety Town in June.
Robin M.

[becka]

I am sorry that you are having to stuggle with this issue. I am afraid we will be struggling with the same issues in about 4 years since DS has a mid-May birthday.

One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra! :confused:

I will surely be working with DS on these items but to expect every child going into K to have mastered all of these skills seems a bit too much!

[Bichon Barb]

Becka, what is your school's cut off date? Mid May for us would be the average age in a grade. I don't know if you are planning to send DS to pre-k, but they work on the shapes, colors, etc. in pre-k. Around here, people usually send their kids to a 3 year old program for two mornings a week and then a 4 year old program for three mornings a week.

Barb
PS: Cute new pic!

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by becka

One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra! :confused:




All kidding aside, geometry was taught at my sons kindegarten class.. the types of triangles/degrees etc...



I asked why so much pressure, and we were told so many kids go to preschool/daycare situation where they have been taught that already, why not enhance the curriculum?

[becka]

I think the cut-off is August 1st around here. So he would be just a few months before the cut-off and I have been warned that often times the boys are just a little more immature than the girls and are more likely to be held back that year especially if they have a later birthday.

I know that they teach some of these things in pre-K and I know that DS will be attending some type of pre-school but not every child will have the best access to pre-schools and IMHO they should not expect every 5 year old to know all of that. K should be about learning skills needed to succeed in school (sitting still, raising your hand, etc.) and focusing on the basics like learning the alphabet and counting, etc. It seems like they expect kids to already have all of these skills before they set foot in a classroom. :(

[becka]

Originally posted by Cindy B
All kidding aside, geometry was taught at my sons kindegarten class.. the types of triangles/degrees etc...



I asked why so much pressure, and we were told so many kids go to preschool/daycare situation where they have been taught that already, why not enhance the curriculum?

Good grief...I know I was exaggerating with the algebra thing but a Kindergartener's only required geometry skills should be knowing basic shapes (square, circle, triangle, etc.). I cannot believe they expect a 5 year old to understand isoceles and right triangles. They may be able to regurgitate that every triangle has 180 degrees but there are very, very few 5-year olds that would have the ability to understand that concept. I was a math education major and I was putting together lesson plans on types of triangles for 5th graders not 5 year olds!

From what I hear about the school's today it seems that way too much focus is placed on regurgitation and not enough attention is paid to actually understanding concepts.

[Bichon Barb]

I agree on the pushing kids too hard issue. It's horrible in New York State. We have state testing in 4th grade and 8th grade. The kids spend 1st through 3rd just preparing for the 4th grade exams. It's a lot of pressure on the kids and the teachers. The results are posted in the papers, so it gets to be a competition between the schools and districts to see who does best.

Pre-K in NYS is free (although last I heard they were trying to cut that from the budget). Many daycare centers are licensed to teach pre-k. I forgot this isn't a national thing.

August 1st is an early cutoff. Our's is late (Dec 1st).

[disykat]

I need to find the research to quote, but I know that many studies have shown that early knowledge of things like the alphabet etc. proves nothing about long-range school success. Unfortunately some teachers and parents expect a homogenized group of kids - sorry it's just not realistic. The age advantage does disappear over the years and things even out. Unfortunately it is hard now for a child who just turned 5 in August to "compete" with children who turned 6 in April and May - they are over a year older!

In my experience kids do not know all the things listed above at that age. Don't believe what you hear - that is a best case scenario thing.

[Toby'sFriend]

This topic always interests me because my first two kids were summer birthdays. I sent the first one to school the year he turned 5 and held the second child back and started him when he was 6. Today when I look at the Kindergarten classes, it seems like well over 1/2 the class is already 6 when they start. So I don't know if our stories of "I started when I was _____ " are comparable because things have changed so much.

In my oldest son's case it was true that he did catch-up to all the rest of the children maturity wise around 3rd and 4th grade. This year I have started to worry about what might happen in High School however when he is a very young Freshman in the same building as Seniors. The worries never end.

With my 3rd child - who is only 2 months old right now so I have awhile - I plan to send him to a Montessori (Individually paced) type program through 1st grade.. and then I'll place him in Elementary school based on his skill set and maturity level then.

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by becka
One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra! :confused:

I will surely be working with DS on these items but to expect every child going into K to have mastered all of these skills seems a bit too much!
These days they are taught that stuff in pre-K. DS lucked out when he was 4. His pre-K teacher was tired of teaching the upper grades and had the 4 YO's a few years. She told us in the beginning of the year that she teaches them a Kinder program! Those kids were counting to 100, and some of the older 4's came out reading books. She told me that Kinder would be a review for DS, and she was right. :) He flew through. DS is in a private school, and they were tested to see which section they would go in. They have 3 sections of Kindergarten. After his testing was done, I mentioned it to his pre-K teacher. She asked if he was in her class the week they drew a person. When she told me the week, I realized that he had been out with the chicken pox. She said...oh, that's a shame because that's when they learned to draw a neck on the person! She said the kinder will be looking for a neck on the person he drew for testing. :rolleyes: When his test eventually came back to me a couple years later (when they cleaned out the kids office files), the neck wasn't there. That's okay...he had a GREAT teacher for Kindergarten.

[gepetto]

My son was 4 when he started Kindergarten. He's doing very well in 3rd grade. :D

[Patricia]

So many things to consider, so many opinions. I feel for you, I really do and I wish more than anything I could give you the crystal ball you are trying to look into. ISn't that the secret to parenting? We all want to see how our decisions today affect our children tomorrow. I could write a book here, both with the experiences of my own 3 children and the 12 years I have in the classroom~most of which is at the 7th and 8th grade level where, in my opinion, the "you know what" hits the fan with younger kids. Bottom line, you and your husband have to agree and you have to feel ok with it. It's a long road until adulthood with kids. You are just beginning the journey. Try not to stress and enjoy each and every day with your son. I am a firm believer in the "where are we all running to ?" theory. We start K early, we finish HS early, we finish college early, then we get a JOB early? I don't know about you, but that isn't all that appealing. Rush, rush, rush... My oldest is now 17 and is looking at colleges for the fall of 2004. I cannot believe it's almost over and I would give ANYTHING to get a year back with her. That's the other end of the spectrum, I know, but it's something to think about. God bless and best of luck with the decision! No matter what, it all works out.

[disykat]

I would love to hear from some parents who have 19 year old seniors in high school to hear their take on it.

[Mishetta]

We put our son in Begindergarten & he will be 18 when he graduates. So what? I'd rather him be 18 when he's going off to college instead of 17. (That is, if he goes to college! :rolleyes: )

[disykat]

18 is the "normal" age to graduate - I'm curious about the 19 year olds. I'm not trying to be creepy, I really wonder how they feel.

[MerryPoppins]

My son's birthday is mid-summer. He'll turn 18 before he starts 12th grade, since we put him in Transition. So instead of having the last birthday in his class he has one of the first. I don't think he or his friends even think about it much. If anything, they seem to think it is cool that he will be able to drive this summer and they can't until sometime during the next school year. They are already asking if he'll give them rides. :teeth:

[janette]

Originally posted by disykat
18 is the "normal" age to graduate - I'm curious about the 19 year olds. I'm not trying to be creepy, I really wonder how they feel.

My youngest DD is a grade behind the class she'd be in based on the cutoff. She has a summer birthday and will turn 18 before school starts but will be 18 when she graduates.

My oldest DD missed the cutoff by 25 days, she will be 18 for most of her senior year.

The age span in almost any class is 1 - 1 1/2 year, a few months doesn't make much difference.

The only hesitation I'd have is if for some reason the school wanted to retain them either of them. That would make them 19 for their senior year and I wouldn't be comfortable with that. I do have twin neices that started late and were retained, they are graduating from college this year at 24. It doesn't seem to have bothered them any but I think they are probably an exception.

[disykat]

My son with the November birthday will also be 18 most of his senior year by luck of the draw. My younger son with the May birthday would've been 19 a month before graduation if I had decided to keep him out to give him the age advantage. Those are the ones I'm curious about.

[Jenzebelle]

My sister will turn 19 2mos after graduation this year. Most of her friends are at least 6mos younger than she is. Her boyfriend of 2yrs is 11mos younger than she is.

It doesn't faze her in the least to be older than her friends. She doesn't get teased about her age, and she was never made to feel anything than what she is - an extremely bright, athletic, popular, and beautiful girl.

My parents learned an important lesson by not putting me in preschool and putting me in Kindergarten so young. Socially I was not ready for it - I had no experience with kids my own age until Kindergarten and then I felt like a freak because I was the only kid that could read.

My sister had maturity issues, so my parents held her back a year (as they did with my brother). And they have said repeatedly that they have never regretted it.

[BethR]

Originally posted by Rock'n Robin

Another thing is that our district doesn't really hold kids back that I've seen-in our district report cards there is a zero retention rate--now I don't know if that's because they are all so smart they can move on, or if the district just wants a zero retention rate!

Exactly the reason that I feel that your DS should NOT go to Kindergarten until you think that he is absolutely ready!

It is pretty much the same in our school district - NO one is held back - except occasionally a very few in Kindergarten. The school district seems to be more concerned about how a child feels about not being their classmates than with how much they know! A child will MUCH more easily get over having to make new friends in class, than having to struggle thoughout their school years!

I have volunteered at our school tutoring those children who need some extra one on one help. When I talk to the teacher who coordinates this program, I cannot tell you how many of these students are being pushed along because the school district will not retain them! :eek:
And how many times I have heard people put their kids in Kindergarten as soon as they are of age - because they want to save on child care! :eek:
Since you cannot depend on the school to do the right thing once your child is in the system, I STRONGLY encourage parents to make sure that their child is absolutely ready when they start kindergarten!

My oldest DD was 18 1/2 when she graduated. She has a December birthday and our cut-off is September 1. She was in the top ten percent of her class and had many friends on varying ages. Some were already 19 when they graduated. One was barely 17 when she graduated due to her placement after home schooling and moving school districts. I do not think that there was any real difference in these kids. They were all within 24 months in age - I don't think that it makes a whole lot of difference in the late teen years
.
Best of luck for you and your DS, Robin.

Making decisions concerning our children is sometimes agonizing.

[Pam]

My daughter has a mid-September birthday, she started school when she was 5 and then turned 6 a couple of weeks later. Currently she is 17.5 years old and is a junior. She will be 18.5 when she graduates next year.

My son has an end of April birthday. We chose to wait and send him to kindergarten when he was 6, something we have never regretted. Currently he is in 8th grade. He will have turned 19 a little more than a month before he graduates High School.

Over half of the parents in our school district have decided not to send their children to school until they are 6.

Both children are honors students in accelerate classes, involved in school, Church, and other activities.