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View Full Version : Will the Disneyland Subs Finally Surface?


Darian
03-11-2003, 08:02 PM
My Disneyland spies tell me major work is currently underway over at the Submarine ride in Disneyland. All new maintenance lights and electrical wiring through out the ride tunnels have been installed and a new security camera system is in progress. New show lighting is also nearing completion. A new ventilation system is also being installed. The place is crawling with Imagineers.

It looks like the subs will sail again and soon. But as what? The ride animatronics are not in place, but are rumored to have either been rehabed (my guess) or replaced with something of an Atlantis theme (doubtful, but who knows?) With the water leak in the lagoon fixed some time ago, very little remains to be done for a ride restart. There could be an early restart... or it could wait for the 50 year celebration.

Very interesting.... photos to follow. (before the video cams are installed for sure...)

Darian

DC7800
03-11-2003, 10:31 PM
Miceage mentioned this little rumor as well.

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al030503a.htm

I didn't used to keep up with Disneyland news like I do WDW, but I thought I'd read where the DL subs (like those in Florida) had simply deteriorated too far to ever be servicable again? Apparently mistaken, and for once it's a good thing. Certainly $10 million (or more; a modest price overrun should not be permitted to derail this effort) invested here is far, far better than a new spinner for about the same price.

Darian
03-12-2003, 01:51 PM
DC7800,

Thanks for the link! What a great website! That certainly explains why, all of a sudden, there is tremendous activity with the submarine ride. It sure looks like the decision to restore the submarine attraction has been made.

The subs themselves are (surprisingly) still in "good "shape - their engines have been maintained and were started and run on a regular schedule. I hear the plan right now is to convert them to run on Compressed Natural Gas, which is a fairly simple process according to a diesel mechanic friend. When the subs were retired, there was a good deal of maintenance that had been deferred - anyone remember the leaks in the hatch seals that drenched the people sitting under them?

While I'm glad the subs will be sailing again, I'm a bit disapointed that in all probability it will just be the same old sub ride - even if it is restored to its former glory. It seems Disneyland has become the stepchild of the Disney company. Just look at the new Pooh ride. Its a considerably cheaper version than the Tokyo Pooh ride, and not even as good as the WDW version. Here's hoping Jay Rusulo can break Cynthia of her evil ways....

Darian

Mr D
03-17-2003, 11:31 PM
Usually children are totally amazed at something simple, if its too complex they may be afraid, my two kids 5 and 9 would love the sub ride, I rode it in '66 when I was 9, it was to me the best ride in the park, it opened up my eyes to imagination, adventure, technology.

Now 37 years later I have been a marine engineer, traveled extensively, forged a multimillion dollar facility in Alaska.

I think Walt helped guide my future.......:D

MickMan
03-19-2003, 08:33 AM
I hope they do something with it. I loved that attraction. It was cheesy but I always looked forward to it.

:bounce:

YoHo
03-19-2003, 11:24 AM
Here's hoping Jay Rusulo can break Cynthia of her evil ways....


Uh oh, it looks like somebody has fallen for the hype and blamed everything on Cynthia.

Cynthia never did anything to hurt Disneyland. Paul Presslar was head of Disneyland when the Subs came out. Paul Presslar nearly Destroyed Disneyland. Cynthia has managed to keep it fairly safe while putting up with DCA a project forced on her by Burbank.

disneychrista
03-19-2003, 11:51 AM
My understanding on the "reason" the Subs (may) return, is that they want something in place when Space Mountain closes for over a year come Labor Day.

I am not sure if the Subs can really "take place" of Space but it will be nice to see the Lagoon "alive" again.

Darian
03-19-2003, 11:55 AM
Hi YoHo!

Actually, I think you are quite right about Cynthia. She certainly wasn't the evil genious behind the decline of Disneyland, and from what I've seen she has tried to mitigate the effects of Herr Eisner and his lackey, Mr. Pressler. BUT she can only do so much in the face of upper management's directives and policies.

My thought was that people tend to continue doing the job the way they were trained, the way they have done it for years. My concern was Cynthia would continue doing her job the "Pressler way" even after Pressler was gone... hence my comment about Mr. Rasulo changing her... ways of doing business.

Clearly, my choice of words could have been better and less confusing. I do hope Mr. Rasulo is able to erase the "Pressler way" things are done at the park.

Say, MickMan - I should have some pix of the Sub ride restoration soon. Whats the DIS policy on posting that kinda stuff, anybody know?

Will the Subs Sail by Summer? Sweet!

Darian

YoHo
03-19-2003, 12:00 PM
Hey Darian, its all good.

The concern is that Rasulo will jut get rid of her.
She was brought in by that other guy that got fired. Thus, Rasulo can get rid of her and bring in his own person.

Al Weiss down in florida is NOT a presslar guy and thus his job is a bit more safe. It's purely buisness.

Heck, the Lady maintained her offices on Mainstreet, how bad can she be!

Darian
03-19-2003, 12:06 PM
From what I've seen, she's cute too. Hmmmm I wonder if she ever gives those "walk in walt's footsteps" tours.... uuhhh never mind. This is a family board after all....;)

Darian

DizneyXtreme
03-21-2003, 09:43 PM
They said it would cost a minimum of 10 million to re-open it almost in the same condition it was when it closed. Is it really worth it? Some rides re-done cost about as much.

Darian
03-21-2003, 09:55 PM
Gosh, 10 million?!?! Yikes they sure aren't getting their monies worth... there isn't that much that has to be done....

Darian

PS I should have my pix of the refurb ready to post soon...

USFFan8814
03-22-2003, 02:22 AM
Will they re-launch the WDW subs??????:bounce: :confused:

DC7800
03-22-2003, 11:10 AM
They'll never surface in the water, apparently. See:

http://www.laughingplace.com/default.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-32627-P-2&Refresh=0321000950

Darian
03-22-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by USFFan8814
Will they re-launch the WDW subs??????:bounce: :confused:

From what I've heard, that is very unlikely. Sorry not to have better news. The WDW attraction, from what I've heard, would need much more work to get it going... and where are the WDW subs? Isn't one parked out at Castaway Cay? Aside from the lagoon and que area, there isn't much left. I've heard the "guts" of the ride have either been removed or have rotted away to scrap.

In comparison, the California submarine ride is basically intact. One sub does have its seats removed, but thats not a big issue, as the seats are supposidly still there. The subs were started on a schedule to keep the engines "alive." Much of the underwater scenery (inside the sub building) was removed for safe storage, and some of the items in the outside lagoon as well.

It will be interesting to see what the final price tag is. Hope this helps.

Darian

Darian
03-22-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by DC7800
They'll never surface in the water, apparently. See:

http://www.laughingplace.com/default.asp?WCI=MsgBoard&WCE=T-32627-P-2&Refresh=0321000950

DC7800 - heheh you beat me to it! I can't imagine why Disney would crush and bury the sub remains when they could sell them on eBay and make a buck for stockholders. <sigh>

Darian

YoHo
03-24-2003, 01:23 PM
The Sub isn't "Docked" At Castaway Cay it is sunk out in the Snorkeling area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't look much like the Nautalis anymore. At least it didn't when I saw it last year.

Darian
03-24-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by YoHo
The Sub isn't "Docked" At Castaway Cay it is sunk out in the Snorkeling area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't look much like the Nautalis anymore. At least it didn't when I saw it last year.

Oh No!!! The photo I saw musta been years old then... it was on the surface in the photo...

Was it sunk intentionally do you suppose? Is it rotting or what?

Darian
03-24-2003, 07:49 PM
I was trying to post a photo of the disneyland subs refurbishment but can't figure out how to make it happen... I guess this is kinda the wrong place to be askin' about tech support, but since its a submarine photo... pretty pleaseee with sugar on top????

Darian

YoHo
03-24-2003, 10:28 PM
I've seen that picture as well and it is quite old. The sub was intentionally sunk as one of the "secrets" of the Snorkeling area.

DC7800
03-25-2003, 08:27 PM
Another update over at Miceage:

http://www.miceage.com/allutz/al032503a.htm

YoHo
03-26-2003, 01:20 PM
I see Cynthia's Still getting the shaft.

Does Lutz realize that he's playing into Raulso's hands?

Darian
03-26-2003, 01:55 PM
While I can't speak for Mr. Lutz, I certainly get the impression from visiting his web site that he tells it like he sees it.

From what I read, its seems like he was saying that Cynthia has recognized there has been a change in vision at Disneyland and is cooperating with that change. Which has a certain justice to it.

Darian

Another Voice
03-26-2003, 02:13 PM
It's really interesting to watch the entire organized campaign that's being launched against her. It's obvious someone has the political skills to attempt this end run around her political skills by trying to whip-up the rabid Annual Passholder crowd.

The rising storm over the awful 'Pooh' ride at Disneyland is going to be fun to watch. No doubt this is all being set up for a reason and I'm waiting for the first Marcie posting about being disappointed, but how Jay will ride up on his white stallion and rescue us all.

Pressler did the same thing when he came to Disneyland with the "he's been magical for the stores" bit – only to see it crash & burn when his true character was shown after 'Light Magic'.

More interesting still are the "rumors" about WDW management making a huge push to take over Disneyland – to essential run the park here as simply a satellite location of the "real" resort in the east. Won't that make for some interesting corporate politics…

Darian
03-26-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Another Voice
More interesting still are the "rumors" about WDW management making a huge push to take over Disneyland – to essential run the park here as simply a satellite location of the "real" resort in the east. Won't that make for some interesting corporate politics…

I prefer the rumor about the "old timers" presently being courted by Rasulo comming back and setting things to right. How's that for a pipe dream?

Darian

Another Voice
03-26-2003, 03:08 PM
One hears whispers about who it was that invited those "old timers" to Disneyland. Mr. Rasulo is one of the "new" guys and was involved in many projects in Europe that actively prohibited WDI's involvement (and some other interesting tidbits from earlier in his career).

So one has to wonder if a manager with a disinterest in the old ways and in WDI would have much of an interest what those people would have to say.

There are, of course, others who might be interested...

larworth
03-26-2003, 04:22 PM
manager with a disinterest in the old ways and in WDI Most of the initial accounts we heard about Jay when he got the job painted him as someone who had always been a big fan and proponent of WDI and attractions? I assumed this was not a political stance, since we know what his former boss (the man whose name still must not be said) was interested in.

So, when we hear him complaing about DL ride capacity, the low quality of recent attractions, the state of the parks it sounds consistent with that image. If he can make some political hay in the name of reversing past trends isn't that what we had hoped for?

Harris does report to him, and her support base can't be that strong. Is he really threatened by her? Maybe he realizes she really doesn't get it or feels she was just too willing to play the game before to be a trusted member of his management team? Maybe, moving here out makes the WDW play for DL much easier?

AV, be interested to hear more why his image may be more spin than substance.

Another Voice
03-26-2003, 05:36 PM
Mr. Rasulo's primary job at Euro Disney was to expand out the Festival Disney area (similar to Downtown Disney), sell land for more hotels and get the regional shopping mall built. Hardly WDI type projects. He also supervised the Disney Studio Paris development, again, not a really WDI-friendly enterprise.

And consider that time and time again Eisner has pushed international delolpment, along the lines of Hong Kong Disneyland, it the only growth opportunity for the parks. And since the business model for HK-DL is exactly the same as the business model used for Festival Disney, et al – one can easily guess at where Rasulo's experience may come to play.

I think it's difficult for people outside California to understand how dependent Disneyland has become on the annual passholder. According to the latest posting on MiceAge.com, last weekend they accounted for 25% of Disneyland's attendance and 53% of DCA's attendance. They are, very literally, the only thing that stands between a profit and a loss.

The first, and best, thing Cynthia did when she arrived was to play up to the group. Certainly those trying to replace her understand the tactic and are attempting it too. Disneyland has fallen into a trap of its own making. They are being treated like a private country club and any management that disturbs the members are bound to fail.

And much like Cynthia earned a honeymoon by ordering the painters back into the park, no doubt whoever follows here will order the subs reopened or a film put back into the Circlevision theatre (an idea that was vehemently shoot down by Pressler and Eisner in the wake of 9/11) or, at the very least, spin a background that encourages hope.

But it will have to seen how much will actually change and which are improvements and which are window dressings. As the canceled Disneyland 50th plans, the prolonged Space Mountain rebuild and the lack of any real effort at California Adventure tend to, not much has changed.

Darian
03-26-2003, 06:31 PM
Quote from Another Voice: "Disneyland has fallen into a trap of its own making. They are being treated like a private country club and any management that disturbs the members are bound to fail."

It almost sounds like there is some animosity towards the Annual Passholders in this and other comments you have made. It is understandable for some resentment to be there, as some APs can be a bit high-handed when dealing with CM's.

However, as the Disney corporation experiences wave after wave of their own "cultural revolutions" - and long time Disney employees are replaced with visionless corporate talking heads such as Mr. Pressler and (the man whose name still must not be said -do I have that right, larworth?), the Disney corporate collective memory suffers irrepairable amnesia. They forget what being "Disney" is all about. They have no clue as to what makes "the magic" and instead are rapidly turning the parks into just another 6FMM, without the thrill rides. What will that be? Answer - a ghost town.

The annual passholders now serve as the repository of that lost Disney knowledge. Their carping and whining over peeling paint, lost attractions, rotting trees and the horrors of plush toys have been right on the money.

And I still can't figure out how to post photos to this thread. I've got this shot of the Argonaut taken a few days ago in the underground "sub cavern" that is delightfully claustrophobic.

Darian

Darian
03-26-2003, 06:35 PM
Another Voice,

the 50th plans have been canceled?!?!?! say it ain't sooooo!!!!

BTW, your points on Mr. Rasulo are well taken. Your perspective on things is much appreciated! Though I am from southern california and admitedly biased due to my fondness for the park here. ;)

Darian

raidermatt
03-26-2003, 06:44 PM
Darian, to post a picture you need to first upload it to a website that will allow linking. Sony Imagestation is free and it works (imagestation.com).

Then, right click on the photo at the website and click on properties. Copy the url for the photo, then click on the IMG button here at the Dis when posting/replying. Paste in the URL and it should show up fine.

That's about all I know, so if that doesn't work, check out the Technical Support board here on the Dis, where folks who really know what they are doing can help you...;)

Another Voice
03-26-2003, 08:06 PM
You know, every now and then I have to write a post that really gets me into deep trouble.

It might as well be now.

It's not so much that Disney management started out to disdain the annual passholders; it's that they never respected them to even the slightest degree at the start. But the degree to which management is forced to rely on this group has turned that into a form of hostility.

Initial, the AP crowd was really viewed as just another pack of fools that would buy anything Disney offers. The term "brand monkey" has been flying around long before the French so rightly earned their similar name. Every time Disney saw someone with a pin lanyard they would snicker. Every bit of junk that sold on eBay produced a flurry of e-mail jokes about emptying the contents of a trash can, selling it, and retiring on a lush tropical island. The sight of hundreds of people groveling after trinkets at "merchandising events" was compared to Marti Grai, they only wished they could find a way to get the women to flash for a string of beads. It was very much fun and games – AP'ers were a source of constant money and amusement.

Then California Adventure opened. Instead of being a funny sideshow, AP'ers became the park's only hope to survive. And every comment about long waits or peeling paint was no longer the grumbling of an idiot – it was a potential reason for them not to come back and spend money. Across the property as the level of maintenance was cut when the financial disaster spread, the complaints soared. As regular guests fled the resort, Disney sold more and more passes to compensate – and that just produced even more people demanding special rights*. Instead of laughing at these people, they now have to cater to ever greater numbers of them.

Disney thought they were doing a pretty good job keeping the parks going during a really bad period. I know I write all the time about the pressure put on the parks' financial – but it is impossible to overstate how great they have been. Eisner hates the parks. He would love nothing more than someone to come along and cut a massive check so Eisner could be rid of "those money pits". Short of that he's going to pry every single penny from every single dead hand from Main Street to Toon Town.

It is a very real struggle just to keep the parks open while everything is being liposuctioned off the make 'Are You Hot'. The parks are working very hard – but all these ungrateful, ignorant and unwashed (their words again) people whine about the smallest, most trivial matters. Disneyland killed a guest because of bad training and wood rot – but people were complaining the churros might be cut by a ½ inch.

Far from being seen as the "repository of Disney lore", many people inside the company view AP'ers as nothing more than a pack of spoiled children whose only concern is grabbing more goodies than everyone else. Disneyland receives scores of e-mail everyday with "requests" from AP'ers for certain privileges or they threaten not to renew. And some of them are truly amazing – does anyone really believe that Disneyland should be open exclusively for AP'ers on Sunday or face a boycott? But that's what Disney sees day in and day out.

So Disney is in a trap – they are dependent on a group of people they mock. Disney feels that there is nothing they can do anymore that will please them, but Disney is so desperate for their money Disney feels it has to everything it can (only to face consent complaints).

Now before the e-mail starts flooding in, this is my impression about what is happening in overall terms. Yes, there are plenty examples of kind hearted AP'ers who only wish to share the magic and there are cast members that treat every pin trader like a long lost brother. But mass opinion tends to drive corporate action. Especially when it's supported by a management that shares the common distrust and – I'll say it – disdain for the Annual Passholders.

I remain neutral between the two parties. I have seen my share of obnoxious AP'ers and I believe Disneyland has paid only lip service to doing what really needs to done to fix the parks. And I've seen good behavior from both groups as well. But the fundamental relationship between the Park and all of its Guests has been significantly altered and we're just living with that fallout.

Now let the hate mail flood…


* As one person told me – "if one more of those fat ** tells them they should get a Fast Pass anytime the want again, I'm going to cram in their…"

Darian
03-26-2003, 10:06 PM
Oh man. I had no idea... Thanks for the insightful and educational posting.

I had thought most of the Disney hostility towards the AP crowd was in retaliation for the near riot the night the Light Magic parade was revealed by Mr. Pressler in the flesh.

I don't doubt what you have said is true. It is just so unfortunate though, that Disney would become so alienated and misinformed about their central customer base. The dark side of Disney indeed... Walt's spinning in his grave.

Darian

DC7800
03-30-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Another Voice
Disney thought they were doing a pretty good job keeping the parks going during a really bad period. I know I write all the time about the pressure put on the parks' financial – but it is impossible to overstate how great they have been. Eisner hates the parks. He would love nothing more than someone to come along and cut a massive check so Eisner could be rid of "those money pits". Short of that he's going to pry every single penny from every single dead hand from Main Street to Toon Town.

It is a very real struggle just to keep the parks open while everything is being liposuctioned off the make 'Are You Hot'.

Eisner actually "hates" the parks?!? Incredible. Seems to just show how out of touch Eisner really is (as if we needed more proof). Yes, business and attendance is down at the parks (regardless of the economy or other external factors, this is still due in no small part to Eisner's own folly), but hardly a financial disaster.

Isn't it those very "money pits" which keep the rest of the company afloat? No matter how many billions are wasted on the likes of ABC or Go.com (or Mike's ego), you can safely count on the parks to keep the company out of the red. This should be so obvious, shouldn't it? The parks are the consistently "successful" branch of the company - and where you want to invest your capital, since it will no doubt yield a favorable return. Yet, Eisner would just as soon be rid of them. :confused: :confused: