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View Full Version : They Even Reduced The Food Amount.. Yup


Figmentrocks
03-06-2003, 12:04 AM
Ok, we've all had our say about the state of affairs at Disney. Well, my wife and I went to Epcot this evening. I ended up with the chicken fingers over by The American Adventure. Well, I'm not one who eats much, but I looked at the portion and before I said anything, my wife goes "that's the kids meal".. Geez, guess they made a mistake....

....We find out that it is not a mistake. She tells the cast member that the basket always had four 'fingers' and a lot more fries. The cast member happily informs us that they just decided to reduce the number of fingers from four to three along with less fries.


It is bad enough that they take away the attractions, reduce hours, and raise prices, but then to take away from portion amounts to increase the bottom-line is just getting to be absurd. How do you continue to hold onto and grow brand loyalty when all we seem to think is "well it used to be xyz.. the parks used to be great.. everything used to be quality." That's our last meal at Walt Disney World until their property is run by management that cares about their customer, not nickle and dimes us for absolutely every darn cent.

DVC-Landbaron
03-06-2003, 12:24 AM
Figmentrocks,

Are you absurd!!?? Is your head on straight!!?? In case you’ve forgotten Disney is a BUSINESS!!!! It is incumbent upon management to increase shareholder value! The have a fiduciary responsibility!! And if they can’t get that 10% increase by charging more (lord knows the prices are sky high already) then they have the right, NO the duty to serve less!! Just be happy they gave you three instead of two!!!

And let’s get real! Any other place in America the fries would be extra! Consider yourself lucky that Disney ‘gave’ you any!!! Remember, they are not in business to ‘give’ you food, they are in business to turn a profit!!

I really don’t know why that is so very hard for anyone to understand!!! I would think that anyone who signed up on a Disney Message Board would be happy if not ecstatic(!) that these hard working WDW management type people (who we have been told time and time again, “get it”) are finally turning a profit!!! MAN OH MAN!!! Some people are soooooo ungrateful!!









Who says I can’t argue on either side of the aisle!! :crazy:

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 12:45 AM
glad someone else mentioned this actually. My fav place is Columbia Harbour House and noticed that now the chicken fingers areSMALLER and you get one less. I also ate in the American Pavilion and noticed the same thing in January but didnt want to post it cause i figured i'd be labeled as too negative but now that someone else jumped in HEY!!!!!! i feel your pain man i feel your pain

d-r
03-06-2003, 06:35 AM
I agree with Land Baron - glad to see you finally get it-

TRAPPED-PARENT
03-06-2003, 07:19 AM
WDW is a business.

Have you noticed that your bag of chips from the grocery is the same size but has fewer ounces of chips? Tuna has gone from 6 oz to 4.5 oz (I think that's right). Take a look at most things that you buy that have "stayed the same price" ... you are getting LESS for the same amount of money.

As far as the WDW servings ... most people won't notice because they don't go often enough.

It's just the way of the world ... either raise the prices or give 'um less for the same price.

mickeyminnie
03-06-2003, 08:06 AM
number one american portions sizes are too large to begin with so perhaps this is a hidden good thing, although I wish the price would drop with the smaller portion. So yeah they are cutting the customer to save a buck.

Second the rest of the world is feeling cuts such as this, why should Disney be any different. My DH works for a company that has shareholders well they are slowly working their way to lay-offs to please those shareholders. So far it has been no bonus, then wage freeze then hiring freeze/travel freeze, etc, it keeps going all in the name of the shareholders. Screw the employees to keep the investor happy, we wouldn't want the investor to take any sort of hit. I would think that some of these investors could suck up some of the downturn and get a wee bit less for a year or 2. We sure have to.

Another Voice
03-06-2003, 08:26 AM
One gets the occansional notion that some people could find a way to justify anything these days. No doubt many people would be happy if WDW was reduced to nothing but a credit card swipe machine along side the highway that displayed "APPROVED - HAVE A MAGICAL® DAY!" for $49.95.

Yet as attendance spirals ever downward, you have to wonder if the public at large is just as eager as the "fan" to write-off all these moves as being good for my waistline. Isn't it just possible that all these changes done in the name of "business" are actually hurting Disney instead of improving the bottom line?

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 08:34 AM
One gets the occansional notion that some people could find a way to justify anything these days. No doubt many people would be happy if WDW was reduced to nothing but a credit card swipe machine along side the highway that displayed "APPROVED - HAVE A MAGICAL® DAY!" for $49.95.

AMEN AMEN brother exorcise the demons please oh lord

Ive noticed that at the movies the candy on display are a different portion size then the one they give you but doesnt make it right.

WDW is a business.

they really have a suckered to fall back on that one everytime we lose something. because obviously i know it's a business everyone knows it's a business.................so if they jack up the price of admission for one day to $100's it's ok then cause WDW is a business? WDW being a business doesnt justify everything a business does.

One gets the occansional notion that some people could find a way to justify anything these days. No doubt many people would be happy if WDW was reduced to nothing but a credit card swipe machine along side the highway that displayed "APPROVED - HAVE A MAGICAL® DAY!" for $49.95.[/

darn it alomost copy and pasted a whole post

CasualObserver
03-06-2003, 08:54 AM
If it's appropriately themed, then it certainly would make my day a bit more magical. Come on, a Mickey-themed card swipe machine on a 2' by 2' square of Disney-owned land around the country. Who couldn't love that. You could go by and get a dose of The Magic anytime.

Don't forget that you would even get to select your response phrase and a customer tracking system would make sure that the system could even - are you sitting down - PREDICT what phrase you wanted to hear.

If the line is too long at the Mickey-swipe station, my sources have told me they are working on a new system to help you, it's called "FastCASH". You swipe your card in one of several slots around the machine and you get a ticket (for the low price of $2.50) which has a magical phrase preprinted and a return time window where you can return to swipe your credit card in the main swipe station to retrieve your daily bit of magic. The new system will allow you an unlimited number of FashCASH passes during the day. Unfortunately, there is only a 15 minute window available (what do you expect for only $2.50).

There you have it. The top-secret lowdown on what has been code named "Pressler's Revenge". Aren't we lucky!!!!!


Casual Observer

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 08:58 AM
CsualObserver i really really really hope you stick around and post all the time. i needed that laughter on this yet one more snowy morning.

You must be an imagineer on this one.

HB2K
03-06-2003, 09:04 AM
Oh gawsh. First butter, then pillow candy, and now one less finger of chicken (do chicken's even have fingers?).

On this day, a new "cause celebre" was born.

Triple Ughs on the house...

Scoop.

Just kidding with you of course. Thanks for posting all information. Have a great day!

I know you're kidding, but this is just another straw which broke someone's back. GCurling found his straw with the rumored Adventureland staggered opening & EE. I found mine with my second trip to DAK. Today someone's back broke because of the food portions.

Sooner or later Disney will realize that there are only so many straws that can be piled up before everyone's back breaks.

P.S. It's funny....while I may gripe about the costs of food at my local Six Flags, at least I'm full when I'm finished eating.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 09:10 AM
I wonder how much i have left to break my camel. Is Gcurling's camel really broken i think he still goes often. Ive gone once this year and might go again in the summer i wonder what will finally be the end but what bothers me more is that it's like im just looking for something to finally be the last straw. and they keep throwing straws on.........ahh it ok WDW is a business.

HB2K what broke your camel about your second trip to DAK if ya dont mind sharing.

TRAPPED-PARENT
03-06-2003, 09:14 AM
It's pretty simple ...

You have a choice. If you don't feel you are getting your money's worth, then you can choose not to patronize the business.

I'm not going to worry about how Disney is keeping their business afloat. When I don't feel like it is worth it to me, I'll stop going or will stop buying the chicken fingers. I'm not going to spend my days stressing over how many chicken fingers I get.

crusader
03-06-2003, 09:21 AM
this is just another straw which broke someone's back.

or another brick in the wall.

Think of the benefits - less fast food portions, more walking, all they need is a fitness guru and they can tap into the diet and exercise market!

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 09:23 AM
I liked the new opening ceremony, i really really did. I appreciated howmany characters where everywhere. I was there January like 6th to the 13 or something like that and got my pictures back two days ago and loved how many pictures i had of my son with the characters, it was great. BUT when your used to getting something and then you go to get that same something and its less but the same price isnt that a bummer? I dont eat fish i dont eat vegetables or fruits really i'm a meat guy chicken and burgers and all the bad stuff (im clogging arteries as i write)

They killed hours, shortened them alot to what im used to. but now i should jump for joy cause they gave us an opening ceremony, it more like they owed it to us. they probably didnt do it cause they thought it would be good but to give customers back from all the complaints.

the chicken fingers are big to me. Mk is the first park i usually go to. I usually go eat at C.H.H. SO the last time i went the price is the same but less a portion and smaller a chicken finger also! it's ok cause their a business. not to me.

I do worry bout their business practices cause i really love WDW like alot of us here do.

its like dude the bar was like at like level 10 lets say late 90's and then like recently like the bar was lowered to like say level like 7 now they try BABY steps to bring the bar back up and now its like at like level 8.5 thats still not good to me I was there when it was like at a ten.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 09:25 AM
Think of the benefits - less fast food portions, more walking, all they need is a fitness guru and they can tap into the diet and exercise market!

anyone from Jersey kicks @$$!!!!!!

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 09:49 AM
Well I'm with take a brick give me a brick

They take Timekeeper the brick give me another brick

They take Carasoul of progress the brick give me another.

They take my summer hours give me something

They take The lion King show out of Mk cool they give me mickeys philinthrapotewoegweafgao********

They gave us a bad brick Journey into imagination they gave us a better brick or tried to at least which was proactive to give us a better brick.

They take my chicken finger dude im gonna be heated.

If i can applaud the good i can boo the bad.

the new madame leota tombstone cool i love it i love people not noticing the eyes move and then getting scared. Ive got a great pic with my son.

The new opening ceremony should be enjoyed. It is alot of fun and nicely done. It's merits should stand on its own.

Not to me. Lets say they close three rides Space mountain, Splash Mountain and Haunted Mansion and then open the next day a brand new ride thriiling and great and the best ever......To me I got screwed. The new ride may be great but i had to trade 3 in exchange.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 10:09 AM
Oh yeah....well.......then...thats fine too i guess, fine!!!!!

in all seriousness i just stepoped back while watching CNN and all this 'we're so close to catching Bin Laden' that i don't wanna talk about the loss of chicken fingers anymore!!!!!

and just for clarification, i may not ALways post it i appreciate all info big and small you and Safari Steve post.

Im excited for a probable Forbidden Mountain, and mickeys philinthrooueasgepjgtp*******, and mission space if not i wouldnt be a annual passholder i guess.

Another Voice
03-06-2003, 10:21 AM
"If this loss of a chicken finger affects a large enough group of guests and their WDW experience, then WDW needs to wise up and put the chicken finger back into the basket."

But isn't this the root of the disagreement. For every person that says "I want my chicken finger" there is a marketing orc screaming "Look, Minnie Mouse is on the train!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

It's kind of hard for the customers to be heard when the company doesn't want to listen. Understanding their customer's wants, desires, and wishes requires that the company actually care about those things. Too many potential WDW visitors no longer believe that Disney really has their vacation's best interest.

Entertainment is not a rational business like making plumbing fixtures - no one sits down and says "I'll except one less chicken finger because promos for ABC's new fall shows are appearing in the vacant 'Doug Live!' theater". Sure, some people are always going to be disappointed, just as some people are always going to be accepting no matter what.

The business question is how you get all those people in the middle to still show up. Based on the numbers it's clear that more people are dropping out than dropping in. It's far easier to loss people than to get them back. Chipping away at the edges and forcing the people over the edge is very short sighted thinking with very, very, very high long term costs.

crusader
03-06-2003, 10:33 AM
The business question is how you get all those people in the middle to still show up.

You have to convince them it is worth their time and money. WDW has to be a recurring vacation choice not just that "once in a lifetime" experience. Otherwise people will tend to put it off for another year - and there will always be that reason why. That same family however, just dropped a decent sum on a vacation to the Jersey shore - and stayed at the same place they do every year. They percieve this to be something they can manage, afford and relax and enjoy. They do not consider WDW to provide that. It gives an overwhelming appearance.

disneychrista
03-06-2003, 10:46 AM
Well I agree that the prices at Disney are high but if the cost of said chicken fingers goes up 25% the choice is to A) increase the cost by at least 25% or B)give 25% and leave the price the same. Looks like Disney choose option B. I am not saying that this is what has happened but the costs have risen, do you honestly expect Disney to absorb the costs? I don't.

I myself was actual pleasently surprised upon ordering a cheeseburger w/o the meat to have them charge less then the post price for a cheeseburger. I expect and was will to pay full price, even though I was not getting the meat.

DisOrBust
03-06-2003, 10:49 AM
I have to break it to all of you but its not just the chicken fingers that are getting "smaller". I had posted on the restaurant board when we returned in January on how WDW dinning was skimping. Here were my examples.

1. V&A had 3 cheese tastes in 2001. This year only one and it was noticed BIG TIME by my DM. Something about one of the cheeses reminding her of her youth in the Swiss Alps.......

2. Bomas. Selection was about 80% of what it had been last year and no more sovineer cups for the kids. We missed the cups. They somehow made me feel more rationale when my 5yo DD eates 4 bites of M&C for 9.00$..'"Oh well, at least she gets a cup." Now it hard to gloss over the fact I just spent 9.00 on 25cents worth of M&C.

3. Princess Breakfast. Did we really spend 75$ for scrambled eggs for breakfast? Yes the characters were great and the food good but nothing special.
4. Narosse's. We had a wonderful fillet with Au Gratin potatos bit that was it. No salad, no veggie. Somehow for 30.00 an entree I don't think I need to pay an extra 4$ for some green beans.


I

Another Voice
03-06-2003, 10:53 AM
"demand for that extra chicken finger "

You see - this is the way a cut is flipped to become a "benefit".

People see through that ploy very easily.

HB2K
03-06-2003, 10:55 AM
Scoop.

When you remove a 12 bricks over a year and give me back 3 plus some pebbles, I'm not going to congratulate you.

Chris Rock had a funny statement in one of his stand up routines. I'll leave the racist parts out, but the jist was

"So what you didn't go to jail. You're not supposed to. What do you want, a cookie?"

Disney is supposed to be providing experinces such as the opening cerimony. Bravo to them for adding it. But I'll tell you this, it doesn't make up for what has been removed. Period. It's nice that they're making permanant security structures. I don't go to Orlando to have my bag searched in a nicer tent. That's why I don't personally laud praise on WDW for such minor "expansions".

Maybe if they announced something other than the latest cutbacks, I'd have something to cheer about.

There will always be a better "could have got". As I've discussed with some friends, we got Epcot Center but we could have got Walt's E.P.C.O.T.

WRONG. We're not griping about what could have been. An analogy to this arguement is this.

Suppose one day they ripped out Splash Mountan and replaced it with a run of the mill flume ride from Six Flags.

That's our gripe. They took something AWAY from us and gave us something substandard.

HB2K what broke your camel about your second trip to DAK if ya dont mind sharing.
Not at all. On my first trip to DAK, before I was "smart" to the process, I remember standing on the bridge looking at the tree of life with my father. It was around 2PM and we just finished everything in the park and were on our way out. He asked me what I thought of DAK...and I remember struggling with an answer. I wanted to LOVE DAK because it was the latest & greatest from my favorite vacation place...but I couldn't. The attractions were top notch, but it just seemed like there wasn't enough to do, almost like I missed a land or something....and he said to me:

"Yeah, this is just the start. I'd bet they've got BIG plans for this place."

Here we are 4 years later, and it's still the same as it was that day.

That conversation with my father is the first time I can remember having a sour taste in my mouth when it came to a Disney product. Over time, other things have just kept piling on to the point that my last trip in December will be my last for a LONG time....cutbacks, rude CMs, and just a feeling that WDW isn't a good value for my $$$. That's what broke my back. The DAK was the first straw that made me start to feel the weight.

TRAPPED-PARENT
03-06-2003, 11:01 AM
We know WDW is expensive so we've ALWAYS been selective about our meals .... Never been to Bomas, O'Hana's, CP, Cindy's, Chef Mickey's, Flying Fish, etc. ... I also don't think I'm missing out on anything either because I don't go to WDW for the food! (It's better at Cedar Point!!)

We go for the SUN (oh yea!), atmosphere, pool, etc. There is always something to do, both in and out of the parks -- we just feel comfortable there and can truly have a relaxing vacation with our kids.

Is it worth it? For us, the answer is a definite YES!!!!!

BrianD
03-06-2003, 11:05 AM
Reducing the number of chicken fingers from 4 to 3 is just simply rediculous! Why do you think I go to WDW in the first place? Let me tell you, my money isn't going to Disney, it's going to Chik-Fil-A. I am here-by boycotting Disney World for three months. That's right, for these next three months, they will get none of my money. I'll show 'em. It's a good thing, we here on these boards are united, in one voice, and declare our outrage to WDW for cutbacks here and cutbacks there. Well, we'll show 'em, no more than 4 trips a year from us DIS'ers. We're not going to take it any more!

HB2K
03-06-2003, 11:07 AM
But WDW is listening in many cases. Adventureland wasn't delayed opening. Early Entry was returned. The water transport at Port Orleans was returned. Heck, Port Orleans itself was reopened.

Scoop,

That's great for people such as us who care about WDW. How about the people such as DisorBust? Why nickle & dime your loyal customers to the point that they feel cheated? What happens when instead of complaining to enact change, they just go away to a place where they don't feel so "cheated".

What about the people who are taking their first trip to WDW and come away feeling cheated? Do you think they're going to call and complain so that the company can make ammends or are the majority of them going to just go away.

Please tell me how making your customers fight to keep what they like is a good business decision.

DisneyKidds
03-06-2003, 11:20 AM
Exit polls showed that people only consumed 3 out of 4 chicken fingers ;). See, Disney is giving you what you want :jester:.

Don Karnage
03-06-2003, 11:29 AM
be careful..... this is one of those dangerous 'WDW Poultry' threads..... some of us have very long memories.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 11:31 AM
this thread has turned into one of the more funnier ones, forget annual passholders savings or mission space, forbidden mountian, logistics of WDW we're talking chicken fingers baby chicken fingers.............I LOVE CHICKEN FINGERS AND WANT MY OTHER ONE BACK and if they do give it back it can't be applauded as they did something positive all their doing is giving it back not building a new country pavilion or something darn it.

d.c.f.l.u.

disney chicken finger lovers united!!!!!

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 11:37 AM
watch out im going 20000 leagues on your @$$'$$

they closed 20000
" " Timekeeper
" " C.O.P

= 3 closed attractions in the MK and with less time to enjoy them.

and now a chicken finger!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well they did give us that open ceremony all is forgiven.

crusader
03-06-2003, 12:10 PM
HB2K -

I believe the AK was a great example of the tide shifting at WDW. You were presented with a 4-park option for your increased ticket price but when you went to the newest park it seemed to provide less. It was reasonable at the time to assume there were expansion plans in the works but here we are with nothing more than when we started.

I won't argue about the size of food. It can't really be about that chicken finger. I hold back on crying fowl if you will.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 12:56 PM
"I want my chicken finger" there is a marketing orc screaming "Look, Minnie Mouse is on the train!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

i just got back from shoveling snow and while i was shoveling was wondering if AV you think that Ei$ner is Sauron and some of the board members are like the Urak hi** and then everyone else are orcs with a couple of cave trolls thrown in?

mickeyminnie
03-06-2003, 01:05 PM
do people really feel like this is the only place that does this kind of cut back?

Sure sure I hear all the "just another straw" thing, but it ain't a ride. All the food in Disney is overpriced, it shows up in the simplist of items, who pays 2 bucks for a bottle of water any place in the US except Disney. It is outrageous, the food prices are terrible. But guess what it is DISNEY you don't go to Disney because it is a bargain, because it is a cheap family vacation.

Why do so many people save and save for that once in a life time trip to Disney? You people who have the bucks to practically live there sound a little "entitled" if you ask me. If you go there 6 times a year and get six less chicken fingers then good God spring that extra 8 bucks or 10 or even *gasp* 12 and buy your extra six chicken fingers. You obviously can afford it.

I know that isn't your point, your point is they are cutting. Well I would rather they remove a chicken finger than raise the price. I would rather they cheap out on the fries than close an extra hour early, or rehab a ride a bit longer than necessary so they don't have to staff it. I don't go to Disney because the meals are so good and so reasonable. I expect that they will gouge me on meals, when have you ever been to an entertainment venue and walked away saying gosh that was a really cheap dinner? People will gripe about paying 4 bucks to park at an event and then go inside and drink 3 glasses of beer at 4.50 a shot. I don't get it, perhaps that is the problem, I don't get it.

:confused:

mickeyminnie
03-06-2003, 01:09 PM
__________________________________________________ __
i just got back from shoveling snow and while i was shoveling was wondering if AV you think that Ei$ner is Sauron and some of the board members are like the Urak hi** and then everyone else are orcs with a couple of cave trolls thrown in?_______________________________________________ __


Okay maybe Saruman? Mislead by the eye, aka money.

I was wondering if I was a Frodo, or perhaps a Sam, but really when it comes down to it, I guess I am a Merry or Pippin, blissfully unaware.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 01:23 PM
I know that isn't your point, your point is they are cutting. Well I would rather they remove a chicken finger than raise the price

eventually they'll raise the price and still not give me my finger!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll be Gimli.

I dont feel entilted to it its just that when you pay for something and are used to getting a certain amount then they cut that amount down, i cant complain? and agree with fellow other complainers!!

but they add more characters and the world has to stop cause their creative genius' that doesnt make sense either.

BrianD
03-06-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by mickeyminnie
do people really feel like this is the only place that does this kind of cut back?

Sure sure I hear all the "just another straw" thing, but it ain't a ride. All the food in Disney is overpriced, it shows up in the simplist of items, who pays 2 bucks for a bottle of water any place in the US except Disney. It is outrageous, the food prices are terrible. But guess what it is DISNEY you don't go to Disney because it is a bargain, because it is a cheap family vacation.

Why do so many people save and save for that once in a life time trip to Disney? You people who have the bucks to practically live there sound a little "entitled" if you ask me. If you go there 6 times a year and get six less chicken fingers then good God spring that extra 8 bucks or 10 or even *gasp* 12 and buy your extra six chicken fingers. You obviously can afford it.

I know that isn't your point, your point is they are cutting. Well I would rather they remove a chicken finger than raise the price. I would rather they cheap out on the fries than close an extra hour early, or rehab a ride a bit longer than necessary so they don't have to staff it. I don't go to Disney because the meals are so good and so reasonable. I expect that they will gouge me on meals, when have you ever been to an entertainment venue and walked away saying gosh that was a really cheap dinner? People will gripe about paying 4 bucks to park at an event and then go inside and drink 3 glasses of beer at 4.50 a shot. I don't get it, perhaps that is the problem, I don't get it.

:confused:

well said, mickeyminnie

DisOrBust
03-06-2003, 01:33 PM
The point is WDW has been whittling away the magic and value of a WDW family vacation. We have only so much time and money for a vacation and there are many places to vacation. Yes I am a repeat visitor but to a point. Does one chicken finger make a difference, YES! We split an adult meal between to kids,lol! with the industry "hurting" WDW has done little to improve their value. Room rates are higher then last year, hours are still less etc.. Others, USF, have discounted rooms (ie 4th night free), Improved ticket prices (ie 5 day ticket for a 2 day price) etc... Yes they have brought EE back but COP is still closed. Mikey's Phil and MS were to be open by April and thats not happening either.

For us it was all summed up when we "saw Walts Dream at MGM. When Eisner is quoting Walt..."Walt Disney once said there's a great big beautiful tomorrow"........and now its closed for the 100 years of magic. Didn't anyone up the food chain see how ironic that is.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 01:43 PM
The point is WDW has been whittling away the magic and value of a WDW family vacation. We have only so much time and money for a vacation and there are many places to vacation. Yes I am a repeat visitor but to a point. Does one chicken finger make a difference, YES! We split an adult meal between to kids,lol! with the industry "hurting" WDW has done little to improve their value. Room rates are higher then last year, hours are still less etc.. Others, USF, have discounted rooms (ie 4th night free), Improved ticket prices (ie 5 day ticket for a 2 day price) etc... Yes they have brought EE back but COP is still closed. Mikey's Phil and MS were to be open by April and thats not happening either.
For us it was all summed up when we "saw Walts Dream at MGM. When Eisner is quoting Walt..."Walt Disney once said there's a great big beautiful tomorrow"........and now its closed for the 100 years of magic. Didn't anyone up the food chain see how ironic that is.

well said, DisOrBust:tongue:



It's ok though cause ive heard Disney is a business :jester:

manning
03-06-2003, 03:31 PM
And they all say they haven't increased prices !!! :mad:

raidermatt
03-06-2003, 03:33 PM
I can't believe I let this thread get to 4 pages before I opened it... (gosh darned Monorails!)

For every person that says "I want my chicken finger" there is a marketing orc screaming "Look, Minnie Mouse is on the train!!!!!!!!!!!!" I had to close my door after reading, and visualizing, this.


Man, sometimes I have a real hard time believing what I am reading. While I disagree with the "Its only a chicken finger, deal with it" attitude, at least its a logical approach for enjoying your vacation.

But, Scoop, are you actually saying the "adds" at least equal the "minuses"???? No need to do the list thing. Just tell me whether or not this is what you really think.

Just when you think you've heard it all, somebody says reducing the portion size is actually a benevolent move by Disney in their never-ending quest to improve the health of its visitors.



Well I would rather they remove a chicken finger than raise the price. I would rather they cheap out on the fries than close an extra hour early, or rehab a ride a bit longer than necessary so they don't have to staff it. But they ARE closing earlier, and the ARE delaying and prolonging rehabs. They HAVE closed attractions without replacement. They HAVE reduced operating hours in periods of increasing attendance.

They have done and are doing all of those other things you DO care about.

Further, reducing the portions by 25% IS the same as raising the price. In fact, its the same as raising the price by 25%.


I understand not caring about the chicken finger. I don't order the things.

However, to paraphrase Hans Gruber:

"Sooner or later, they will get to something you DO care about."

And, actually, I'm sure they already have.

mickeyminnie
03-06-2003, 03:56 PM
I am referring to further cuts or price increases, not that they have not done so already.

raidermatt
03-06-2003, 04:06 PM
I am referring to further cuts or price increases, not that they have not done so already. You can call me a cynic if you want, but somehow I don't think Poultrygate is going to be the last of the cuts...

mickeyminnie
03-06-2003, 04:09 PM
but I agree with your raidermatt that I doubt this is the final cut back and from here on out it is all bigger and better. At least not until the whole Iraqi and Osama dealy is fought out.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 04:21 PM
BUT AHA It's ok cause ive learned Disney is a business:jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester:

man at least i could do that size thing cause is till dont know how to put peoples handles in quotes

All Aboard
03-06-2003, 04:37 PM
GCurling found his straw with the rumored Adventureland staggered opening & EE.Mein Goodness, that's quite a memory. Particularly the Adventureland thing. Well, since 2/3 of EE has been restored and Adventureland opens at 9:00 am, I guess I should be back in Car #1, right? Not just yet, a few too many disappointments in the last couple of years.

Gcurling's camel really broken i think he still goes often.Just got off the phone from booking for arrival tomorrow night. I had my choice of just about any room on-site with an AP discount (though not the really deep ones). I translated that to fairly soft attendance this weekend, so I booked. Now, somebody do an anti-rain dance.

To the topic. Yep, they caught me. I, too, would typically get one basket at Cosmic Rays, Columbia Harbor House, Backlot Express and share it with the little Nat-ster. One and half fingers for her, two and a half for me.

This one baffles me a bit. According to Bob Sehlinger, one of the biggest areas of complaint he gets in letters is the cost of food. And particularly the cost of counter service food. A chicken finger basket at Columbia Harbor house is $6.50. Add the $2.29 soda and tax and you are up to $9.36. Ouch, that's a little steep dontcha think? Now, it seems that they've reduced the volume of your meal by 25%, making the value equation even worse. If it's true that guests in general balk at counter service prices, would this be your strategy in the area?

bigdisneydaddy
03-06-2003, 04:47 PM
It all boils down to value ! I realize WDW food is overpriced, It always has been, But now instead of splitting the chicken finger meal between my boys I will have to buy 2.
Will it stop me from going again ? absolutely not.
But it may cause me to take a break and go back to my room and make a sandwich ( which Disney wont make a dime off of ) Or instead of eating at the food court I may take the time to drive over to the Bob Evans on 192.

madthemouse
03-06-2003, 05:11 PM
And I thought WDW just didn't get it. Man.... was I wrong. They do get it! I believe this is Disney Worlds way of entering into the "World of Diets". After all, isn't 1 in 4 Americans obese? Maybe.... they just want to HELP. :p

bigdisneydaddy
03-06-2003, 05:27 PM
Maybe they can charge me $5.95 per day for all the walking I have to do while at WDW.
Or use that as an excuse to not evolve their transportation system. " the walking is good for you "

Pinnie
03-06-2003, 06:52 PM
Ouch....

First butter.....
OK...now I have to make my toast in my DVC unit so I can have REAL butter.

Then Nescafe.....ok...now I have to make my own real Coffee in my DVC unit.....

Next.... Chicken Fingers....ok...now I have to buy a bag of frozen nuggets and make them in my DVC unit.

Don't you people GET IT??? It's a PLOT to have everyone buy into DVC!!!!!!!:p

pin
remember the magic
DVC/BCVs 2002

HB2K
03-06-2003, 07:10 PM
Mein Goodness, that's quite a memory. Particularly the Adventureland thing. Well, since 2/3 of EE has been restored and Adventureland opens at 9:00 am, I guess I should be back in Car #1, right? Not just yet, a few too many disappointments in the last couple of years.

There in lies the problem Greg....it's a problem car 1'ers seem to brush off. Once the pandora's box is open (or the rose colored glasses are off, if you will) it can't be closed. You see all of the other things you brushed off before. It turns what you thought was a mole hill into a mountain.

BUT AHA It's ok cause ive learned Disney is a business
I know you're being sarcastic, but it's a pathetic excuse for these cutbacks. I don't care if Disney is a business. It doesn't excuse the fact that they are blatantly nickle & diming their loyal customer base, nevermind the casual customers.

BRERALEX
03-06-2003, 07:38 PM
well HB2K i felt like i was bieng yelled earlier when someone said DISNEY IS A BUSINESS!!!!!!!!! duh i know this and it cant be used for everything...somethings yes........other things like my chicken finger NO!

airlarry!
03-06-2003, 11:27 PM
You know what amazes me?

The amount of posts on this board that argue that we should ignore what are obviously cuts...because there is an implied promise by management that the cuts are for economic reasons and/or are balanced out by pluses.

I've said it about right, haven't I, M. Scoop?

But, please turn to page 7 of your annual report 2002 (which just arrived for me in the mail yesterday).

And I quote:

The plan continues to emphasize the important of our brands, but it represents a fundamental shift of emphasis from our company's recent history. Whereas the hallmark of the last five years has been investment, the next five years will be primarily about reaping the fruits of that investment.

Quick quiz. Did Walt say this, and they transposed one of his '58 quotes to the new book?

Hardy har har.

Of course not. Saurei$nerman said this.

So tell me again why you are surprised at this, or any other cut? Tell me again why there are relatively few additions announced for the parks? Tell me again that it is Disney's goal to replace the 'bricks' or, heaven forbid, increase them?

Ei$ner even tells us to expect more cuts. One page 3, he predicts 25-35 % growth in earnings in 2003 from "the strategic action plan" endorsed by the Board. My prediction if Ei$ner stays? He'll get his growth, and in 2008, the WDW parks will be...oh about the same as they were in 2003.

This is so eerily similar to his 10/10 plan that my eyes hurt. I used to be an Ei$ner apologist. Now I recognize him for what he is. The Chicken Finger King.

But I'm still going next Mardi Gras...

HB2K
03-07-2003, 04:38 AM
well HB2K i felt like i was bieng yelled earlier when someone said DISNEY IS A BUSINESS!!!!!!!!! duh i know this and it cant be used for everything...somethings yes........other things like my chicken finger NO!
I know you were being sarcastic. I wasn't directing my comments towards your post.

I'm simply sick of being reminded that Disney is a business everytime they cut something.

Can I ask a question....when did Disney become a business? I'm pretty sure they were one when they build or included everything they've cut.

As a matter of fact, I think they were a more successful one back then....

crusader
03-07-2003, 06:21 AM
I know you're being sarcastic, but it's a pathetic excuse for these cutbacks. I don't care if Disney is a business. It doesn't excuse the fact that they are blatantly nickle & diming their loyal customer base, nevermind the casual customers.

It's the loyal customer base that will really notice these subtle changes. The casual customer was prepared to spend out the wazoo because they were reminded a long time ago that the reason it was more expensive was simply because this was "Disneyworld".

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The plan continues to emphasize the important of our brands, but it represents a fundamental shift of emphasis from our company's recent history. Whereas the hallmark of the last five years has been investment, the next five years will be primarily about reaping the fruits of that investment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am confused as to what "brand" is in this paragraph. If it is putting the word "Disney" on something which applies particularly to the parks then this is only saying that they will reap the benefits of the fact that it is "Disney".

And what are the fruits of that investment? Money? Where?

airlarry!
03-07-2003, 07:24 AM
I am confused as to what "brand" is in this paragraph. If it is putting the word "Disney" on something which applies particularly to the parks then this is only saying that they will reap the benefits of the fact that it is "Disney". And what are the fruits of that investment? Money? Where?

I can't speak for the Darth Ei$ner, but I did read the entire letter. Key word in the paragraph I quoted, IMO, is the word fundamental.

Ei$ner has always been about fundamental shifts. WDW had limited resorts built. Ei$ner fundamentally changed that by expanding the resorts at a phenomonal rate. (can be argued both good and bad...cf The Baron's treatises on value resorts or the hideously garish Poop Century Motel). M. AV can tell us even more about all the changes Ei$ner brought to the molasses Card & Ron were running.

Now he is laying it out, in black and white, that there will be *no* significant enhancements to the parks nor to feature animation in the next five or so years. (Read the part where he talks about how much money they are going to make on the sequels). He is telling us that they have spent enough in the last five years to justify limits on expansion in order to generate extreme cash flow. You can argue with me whether or not the cuts or standstills or lack of expansion or lack of new feature animation is significant to you or to your theme park experience. Fine. Just don't argue that it isn't there, or that it isn't ordered from on high.

What happens to Company X when it stops investing in R&D? It dies a slow death on the vine. This company's R&D IMHO is animation and parks. Why else would Ei$ner tell us how many shares he's bought, then tell us the company is going to generate huge cash reserves (allegedly)?

Because he is trying to stoke the instutional investor into upgrading their buys on the company's stock. Now his options and shares are worth more, and he can get out and buy that country in South America he has been wanting to try his hand at ruling.

crusader
03-07-2003, 08:14 AM
He is telling us that they have spent enough in the last five years to justify limits on expansion in order to generate extreme cash flow.

I don't have the annual report in front of me so I will have to rely on what you are reading. If the cash flow generated from the theme park represents approx 38% of their revenue (somewhere this was posted - my figure may be wrong though) and they freeze expansion in this division, this will have a dramatic initial impact on the cash flow. I wonder if they including the DVC in this category?

What happens to Company X when it stops investing in R&D? It dies a slow death on the vine. This company's R&D IMHO is animation and parks. Why else would Ei$ner tell us how many shares he's bought, then tell us the company is going to generate huge cash reserves (allegedly)?

Absolutely agree. This has been a progessive problem for this Co. and the parks and movies have been steadily losing appeal. Eisner may be attempting to encourage the investor to buy more here - afterall he is and there will be promised liquidity which will increase your share value. This is a catch - 22 because is the anticipated cash reserve coming from the investor buying in or from the operating revenue?

Because he is trying to stoke the instutional investor into upgrading their buys on the company's stock. Now his options and shares are worth more, and he can get out and buy that country in South America he has been wanting to try his hand at ruling.

Not just his shares, but there will be more cash to bonus out!

DisOrBust
03-07-2003, 08:20 AM
To think it all started with a chicken finger.......

HB2K
03-07-2003, 10:20 AM
It's the loyal customer base that will really notice these subtle changes. The casual customer was prepared to spend out the wazoo because they were reminded a long time ago that the reason it was more expensive was simply because this was "Disneyworld".
Agreed. Kind of.

It's the loyal customer base who will notice the change, and fight to correct it.

It's the casual customer who, while expecting absorbanant prices, will see a lack of value and not come back, not become a loyal customer, and will not tell anyone about it.

Those are the people who are driving the numbers into the ground. Those are the people Disney should be most concerned about.

And they're not.

space42
03-07-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Don Karnage
be careful..... this is one of those dangerous 'WDW Poultry' threads..... some of us have very long memories.

Emu fingers anyone?

*back to lurk mode*

Keyser
03-07-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by raidermatt

Further, reducing the portions by 25% IS the same as raising the price. In fact, its the same as raising the price by 25%.


It's a little picky (though it makes the point even stronger), but: reducing portions by 25% is the same as raising the price by 33%. Had they cut portions by 50%, that would be equivalent to a 100% price increase, etc.

Figmentrocks
03-07-2003, 02:24 PM
I'm pleased to see the response of my thread. :) Well, for those of you who immediately jumped all over my statements, yes, I have full understanding of business, so let me put some context to this.

Number one, have you still not FIGURED out that "the economy" and so forth is a continued excuse? This company has been gradually taking away things since the late 90s with the boom still in full bloom. The absurdity of attraction closures began under Judson Green in the mid-90s. Mr. Eisner has continued to run division after division into the ground and is running out of pieces to milk in the theme park division to pull additional profit out of. It's laughable to see the crocodile tears from this company, who still has an incredible profit margin in their theme park enterprise.

Secondly, I am a business owner. I have employees and we have a rocky economy. A GOOD, SOLID business reaches out to the consumer in a down economic trend, especially to the base. Our company fully understands that our return on investment will be lower during uncertain times, but the last thing that we ever want to do is take away from our consumer. The last thing a business should do is raise prices in a economic downturn, the absolute last.

Much of the rationale that I've heard in the thread makes no sense. So, for example, companies might cut employee hours, but they don't raises prices. On the contrary, you can find savings at department stores and meal deals at establishments that haven't been seen in years. $5 of $15 at Benningans, TGI Fridays, nice deal, for certain. They are trying to attract business and then add to their base/foundation once the economy is in full swing in the future. That's smart business, very smart. Trying to boost business, while taking an artificial loss on the meal ticket, but for future gains with an increased loyalty base.

Macy's doesn't raise the price of a $25 shirt to $29 in a downtime, rather they offer extended savings promotions.

As for the rationale that American food portions are too large, that isn't the issue! Disney sells garbage food absolutely everywhere on their property and licenses their brand out to some of the most worthless food on the planet. Good nutrition isn't the issue at hand. You completely play into my argument that dining establishments all over this country are increasing the portion sizes, not reducing them.

Thirdly, prices have INCREASED within the several months on the food. You do not pay more to get less. It seems to be at every cut, hour reduction, and attraction closure that there is a chorus out there that continually makes excuses. I'm glad to see that some of you are glad to be continually taken advantage of. I don't need to add the closing of Innoventions at 7 PM, which they have instituted in the past month, too. Or Imagination? Maybe I do. I'd sure be glad to be UL, who just opened a new attraction in Innoventions, to know that I am now getting two hours less of advertising for my company a day because the employee cost/profit ratio is too high for the company to bare.

Another Voice is correct, as usual. The company isn't interested in hearing my concerns or yours. Their guest satisfaction surveys are worded and structured in such a manner that it is usually difficult to get anything except a favorable response, even from a disgruntled customer. Kind of like a pollster asking "Do you support the President attacking Iraq?" or "Will you support the President in an attract in Iraq?" Many will disagree with an attack (for example sakes, not political here), but once the troops are there, they will support the campaign due to the troops. Same question in basic structure, extremely different results. It's a twist of words.

Universal Orlando has strengthened the quality of their product, offered outstanding annual passholder promotions (FL resident, $99) and has increased their attendance over the past two years.

I have in-laws who came down in October and thought that Disney seemed more like Six Flags and Universal more like the old Disney. My parents are Disney nuts.. they now stay at Universal/Loews properties in Orlando.

1st quarter '03, Walt Disney Co... $1.5 billion in income on the theme parks, $225 million in profit. A quarter of a billion dollars in profit with a weak travel economy is quite good. Wal-Mart did a bit over $71 billion in sales during the 4th quarter of '02 and brought in $2.5 billion in profit. In the ratio of many companies, Disney is making a VERY healthy profit in the theme park division. Also, the argument of appeasing Wall St. is worthless at this point, too. Many companies have given up as the true reality is that if the company reports good news, it's not rewarded, if the company reports bad news it's not impacted. Stock pricing and company earnings are undergoing a fundamental shift post-dotcom. The market's importance wanes as the economy sputters and the general public fails to invest.

The topic shouldn't be for going at eachother, rather a reality check that after several years of cut after cut, it's getting ridiculous. It's called poor business management on the part of the Walt Disney Company and their utter lack of looking at the consumer as a guest presently, you're a dollar sign. I personally get tired of reading these flawed arguments about Disney being a business. You're right and their approach misses the point of a long term successful business plan.

McDonalds franchises are begging the company to do something about the Disney Happy Meals, it's dragging sales down of the product. Disney has saturated the marketplace so inherently that it is damaging the long term success of the brand. We shall see what happens there.

Last points.. I read that well basically Disney can take away because essentially the stupid tourists don't know any better. That is true, but then Disney is on yet another advertising blitz to grow the local Annual Pass base. Well, if you are interested in growing your base of regulars, those are the type of people who do notice when you take things away and raise prices, so the effort to get the locals won't matter much in the end once they realize that it's a continual game of taking away from the consumer.

I as a shareholder am very concerned with the business plan of this company with their utter disregard for the consumer. The attitude of some is take it or leave it. If you don't like it, then don't buy the product, but don't complain about it either. Well, I thought that it was an example of something so slight, but so symbolic of a deeply engrained problem engulfing the company. We'll see, but nothing seems to be running so well for the once grand company. It's a shame to see a place that I've enjoyed so much over the years fall so quickly.

BTW-They haven't been running the trams at Epcot either, at least not during the early evening like they always had. Tough for grandma, I guess. It's just good business sense to save some gas and a few cast members. Great show.

raidermatt
03-07-2003, 02:46 PM
It's a little picky (though it makes the point even stronger), but: reducing portions by 25% is the same as raising the price by 33% Absolutely right....thanks for the correction.

33% in one shot. Yet people who would agree a 33% increase is not "normal" will excuse this as normal.

C.Ann
03-07-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by DisOrBust
I have to break it to all of you but its not just the chicken fingers that are getting "smaller". I had posted on the restaurant board when we returned in January on how WDW dinning was skimping. Here were my examples.

1. V&A had 3 cheese tastes in 2001. This year only one and it was noticed BIG TIME by my DM. Something about one of the cheeses reminding her of her youth in the Swiss Alps.......

2. Bomas. Selection was about 80% of what it had been last year and no more sovineer cups for the kids. We missed the cups. They somehow made me feel more rationale when my 5yo DD eates 4 bites of M&C for 9.00$..'"Oh well, at least she gets a cup." Now it hard to gloss over the fact I just spent 9.00 on 25cents worth of M&C.

3. Princess Breakfast. Did we really spend 75$ for scrambled eggs for breakfast? Yes the characters were great and the food good but nothing special. My DDs love this, they are the target audience but I could not help feeling like we were price gouged.

4. Narosse's. We had a wonderful fillet with Au Gratin potatos bit that was it. No salad, no veggie. Somehow for 30.00 an entree I don't think I need to pay an extra 4$ for some green beans.


I know WDw prices are high and except that. This year however I felt "cheated". If this had been our first trp I would have probably thought oh well there prices are outragous and there is very little value to eating here. Since we are returning customers I just felt "screwed". Next year its offsite for sit down meals (if we don't go to USF). I may have pixie dust in my eyes but its of no use in my wallet!

------------------------------

Can I just tell you that your post (as well as the card-swiping "Have A Magical Day" post) has given me the best laugh I have had in weeks - maybe months..:teeth: Seriously! I'm sitting here with tears streaming down my face..

I have a job that I hate; it's been snowing here since November 5th (or so it seems); I've been sick with a stomach virus all week (but had to work anyhow because unless you're in Intensive Care - hooked to life support - the company I work for expects you to be there and functioning at top speed); our elderly dog won't stop peeing on the floor; we've had no heat in my place of employment for well over two weeks now (but let's not let a little thing like 15-below zero wind chills sway management in terms of getting it fixed - they seem to get some kind of sadistic pleasure out of watching people try to file and perform data entry while wearing three pairs of gloves); what little was left of my DH's IRA has gone belly-up in the past week; and I've had a killer of a headache since - oh, I don't know - around 1961....

BUT - bless you my child!! You have literally made my day today!!:teeth:

:Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc :Pinkbounc

C.Ann
03-07-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Figmentrocks
I'm pleased to see the response of my thread. :) Well, for those of you who immediately jumped all over my statements, yes, I have full understanding of business, so let me put some context to this.

Number one, have you still not FIGURED out that "the economy" and so forth is a continued excuse? This company has been gradually taking away things since the late 90s with the boom still in full bloom. The absurdity of attraction closures began under Judson Green in the mid-90s. Mr. Eisner has continued to run division after division into the ground and is running out of pieces to milk in the theme park division to pull additional profit out of. It's laughable to see the crocodile tears from this company, who still has an incredible profit margin in their theme park enterprise.

Secondly, I am a business owner. I have employees and we have a rocky economy. A GOOD, SOLID business reaches out to the consumer in a down economic trend, especially to the base. Our company fully understands that our return on investment will be lower during uncertain times, but the last thing that we ever want to do is take away from our consumer. The last thing a business should do is raise prices in a economic downturn, the absolute last.

Much of the rationale that I've heard in the thread makes no sense. So, for example, companies might cut employee hours, but they don't raises prices. On the contrary, you can find savings at department stores and meal deals at establishments that haven't been seen in years. $5 of $15 at Benningans, TGI Fridays, nice deal, for certain. They are trying to attract business and then add to their base/foundation once the economy is in full swing in the future. That's smart business, very smart. Trying to boost business, while taking an artificial loss on the meal ticket, but for future gains with an increased loyalty base.

Macy's doesn't raise the price of a $25 shirt to $29 in a downtime, rather they offer extended savings promotions.

As for the rationale that American food portions are too large, that isn't the issue! Disney sells garbage food absolutely everywhere on their property and licenses their brand out to some of the most worthless food on the planet. Good nutrition isn't the issue at hand. You completely play into my argument that dining establishments all over this country are increasing the portion sizes, not reducing them.

Thirdly, prices have INCREASED within the several months on the food. You do not pay more to get less. It seems to be at every cut, hour reduction, and attraction closure that there is a chorus out there that continually makes excuses. I'm glad to see that some of you are glad to be continually taken advantage of. I don't need to add the closing of Innoventions at 7 PM, which they have instituted in the past month, too. Or Imagination? Maybe I do. I'd sure be glad to be UL, who just opened a new attraction in Innoventions, to know that I am now getting two hours less of advertising for my company a day because the employee cost/profit ratio is too high for the company to bare.

Another Voice is correct, as usual. The company isn't interested in hearing my concerns or yours. Their guest satisfaction surveys are worded and structured in such a manner that it is usually difficult to get anything except a favorable response, even from a disgruntled customer. Kind of like a pollster asking "Do you support the President attacking Iraq?" or "Will you support the President in an attract in Iraq?" Many will disagree with an attack (for example sakes, not political here), but once the troops are there, they will support the campaign due to the troops. Same question in basic structure, extremely different results. It's a twist of words.

Universal Orlando has strengthened the quality of their product, offered outstanding annual passholder promotions (FL resident, $99) and has increased their attendance over the past two years.

I have in-laws who came down in October and thought that Disney seemed more like Six Flags and Universal more like the old Disney. My parents are Disney nuts.. they now stay at Universal/Loews properties in Orlando.

1st quarter '03, Walt Disney Co... $1.5 billion in income on the theme parks, $225 million in profit. A quarter of a billion dollars in profit with a weak travel economy is quite good. Wal-Mart did a bit over $71 billion in sales during the 4th quarter of '02 and brought in $2.5 billion in profit. In the ratio of many companies, Disney is making a VERY healthy profit in the theme park division. Also, the argument of appeasing Wall St. is worthless at this point, too. Many companies have given up as the true reality is that if the company reports good news, it's not rewarded, if the company reports bad news it's not impacted. Stock pricing and company earnings are undergoing a fundamental shift post-dotcom. The market's importance wanes as the economy sputters and the general public fails to invest.

The topic shouldn't be for going at eachother, rather a reality check that after several years of cut after cut, it's getting ridiculous. It's called poor business management on the part of the Walt Disney Company and their utter lack of looking at the consumer as a guest presently, you're a dollar sign. I personally get tired of reading these flawed arguments about Disney being a business. You're right and their approach misses the point of a long term successful business plan.

McDonalds franchises are begging the company to do something about the Disney Happy Meals, it's dragging sales down of the product. Disney has saturated the marketplace so inherently that it is damaging the long term success of the brand. We shall see what happens there.

Last points.. I read that well basically Disney can take away because essentially the stupid tourists don't know any better. That is true, but then Disney is on yet another advertising blitz to grow the local Annual Pass base. Well, if you are interested in growing your base of regulars, those are the type of people who do notice when you take things away and raise prices, so the effort to get the locals won't matter much in the end once they realize that it's a continual game of taking away from the consumer.

I as a shareholder am very concerned with the business plan of this company with their utter disregard for the consumer. The attitude of some is take it or leave it. If you don't like it, then don't buy the product, but don't complain about it either. Well, I thought that it was an example of something so slight, but so symbolic of a deeply engrained problem engulfing the company. We'll see, but nothing seems to be running so well for the once grand company. It's a shame to see a place that I've enjoyed so much over the years fall so quickly.

BTW-They haven't been running the trams at Epcot either, at least not during the early evening like they always had. Tough for grandma, I guess. It's just good business sense to save some gas and a few cast members. Great show.

--------------------------------------------

Very well said!! Although I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Disney fan myself, their attitude towards customers is really getting to be a bit much..

Quite frankly, I think Disney World is about the only place I know of where people can continually be ripped off - and then feel as though they somehow "owe" Disney World a thank-you card afterwords...:(

DVC-Landbaron
03-07-2003, 06:20 PM
Quite frankly, I think Disney World is about the only place I know of where people can continually be ripped off - and then feel as though they somehow "owe" Disney World a thank-you card afterwords...PERFECT!!!!

C.Ann, can I borrow that!! I may put it in my signature, since very few seems to understand the quotes I presently use!!

C.Ann
03-07-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
PERFECT!!!!

C.Ann, can I borrow that!! I may put it in my signature, since very few seems to understand the quotes I presently use!!

------------------------------

Feel free..;)

Believe me, I absolutely LOVE the "concept" of Disney World - the magic I feel when I walk down Main Street - the beauty of the fireworks over Cinderella's Castle - the gleam in my grnaddaughter's eyes when she saw Mickey Mouse for the first time - but I'm not going to blindly accept anything and everything that is thrown my way simply because it's Disney World..

raidermatt
03-07-2003, 07:26 PM
Believe me, I absolutely LOVE the "concept" of Disney World - the magic I feel when I walk down Main Street - the beauty of the fireworks over Cinderella's Castle - the gleam in my grnaddaughter's eyes when she saw Mickey Mouse for the first time - but I'm not going to blindly accept anything and everything that is thrown my way simply because it's Disney World.. Well, then...you seem to have come to the right place!

caseymaureen
03-07-2003, 07:48 PM
Just a note:
Between September and December these changes occured to the chicken finger meal at the PO Food courts:
~First, the portions were lowered from four to three per adult meal.
~Second, they changed to a brand with thinner and more "nugetty" strips.
~Third, they changed the kid's meals from the same fingers as the adults to an even cheaper kind which were actual nuggets instead of fingers. Like the microwave meal kind.
Not exactly what most people want to pay $4.95 and $6.95 for.

To the person who said our portions were too big: That may be true, however, it still doesn't make it any better to cut back at one place so that you're only left hungry after paying enough for two meals. It isn't Disney's place to limit what people eat, they just want to make more while buying less.

Mooobooks
03-07-2003, 08:28 PM
As others have mentioned, this is not just a "Disney" thing.
I often eat Dannon yogurt for lunch. Just a month ago I was in the supermarket and noticed that all the packaging had changed to a new design. And the package LOOKED smaller to me. So I compared the contents to one I still had at home from my last trip: old package of yogurt was 8.5 ounces. New package is 6.5 ounces. Is the price less? NO! Does it make a substantial difference? YES!
And I called the 1-800 customer number on the package and told 'em to stick it!
So, the next time you're at Disneyworld or land and you feel you've gotten stiffed on a meal, stop at City Hall and insist on being given a customer complaint form to fill out. If enough people complain, you'll see more fingers on your plate.
I publish a monthly magazine: I can just imagine the response from my subscribers if I cut the number of pages by 20% and kept the cover price the same!

DVC-Landbaron
03-07-2003, 08:36 PM
So, the next time you're at Disneyworld or land and you feel you've gotten stiffed on a meal, stop at City Hall and insist on being given a customer complaint form to fill out. Sorry to dissapoint you, my friend, but they don't let you fill out those forms anymore. They hand you a card with the web-address and snail mail address!!

Yep!! Disney really has the key to guest satisfaction with this great system!!

Planogirl
03-08-2003, 12:22 AM
Does it ever seem like the current WDW is some kind of caricature of the great resort we all know and love? The question is what has Ei$ner done with the real WDW.

I hated reading this thread. I have a hungry 10 year to buy an adult pass for and now adult meals too. I just hope that one meal at a time will be enough.

roymccoy
03-09-2003, 09:24 PM
Yeah, they're a business alright....but do they NEED ABC? Fox Family? Go.com? Miramax?
The answer is no, they do not. The theme parks are shouldering the bottomline (ie. WE are shouldering the bottomline) and it is time to stop gouging us everytime ad revenues are down for ABC or the movies aren't doing all that well or Go.com's going bust...know what I mean?
We are paying for a theme park, not all the extra's that Disney (read Eisner) has dipped their grubby little greedy fingers in. Disney's getting worse than the government!

Attendance is down. It's a little bit because of terrorism, it's a little bit because of the economy AND it's a little bit because of one less chicken finger for the same price at World Showcase.

Roy

P.S. I TOTALLY had the same experience with the "castmember told us with GLEE that they were serving one less chicken finger and less fries." Why do the castmembers seem to enjoy telling us the bad news? Safari Steve?

d-r
03-10-2003, 06:39 AM
I promise you one thing for abosolute certain. Even the reduced food amount yup will be bigger than anything in Tokyo, cost fewer yen, and you won't have to wait in line an hour to order it- hell you will be able to walk and eat it if you want to also.

DR

caseymaureen
03-10-2003, 07:36 AM
I can't speak for Safari Steve or any other CMs on here, but for myself, I never told a guest about cutbacks with "glee." I was just as disgusted, and sometimes more disgusted, than they were. I was dissapointed that the company was taking the cost cutting to such basic things as lowering the quality of food, especially when just a few years ago they tried to make the food better and healthier. Then, if the guest did notice and did get upset, was it taken out on Michael Eisner? On the committees and boards that made the decision? Nope, it was taken out on the minimum wage CM who handed it to them. Guests can be quite harsh to CMs, I've actually been yelled at more times than I can count, two friends were actually struck, and one friend was spit on when he informed a guest that the haunted mansion was closed for renovation. One scenario that may have made the CM you met seem gleeful, first, she may not have really cared. OR she may have already complained and was told to get over it and make the best of it, and they always told us "attitude is everything!" The managers pass down the things that will cause trouble, they don't want to face it either. On the days we'd have kitchen and service inspections all of our managers would mysteriously go on vacation...hmm....

crusader
03-10-2003, 07:39 AM
It's the casual customer who, while expecting absorbanant prices, will see a lack of value and not come back, not become a loyal customer, and will not tell anyone about it.

Those are the people who are driving the numbers into the ground. Those are the people Disney should be most concerned about.

And they're not.

I agree. The loyal customer will continually complain and may even be influential in fomenting some positive turnaround but in all honesty, it really will take alot for them to abandon ship. The company knows this. There is an invisible force which keeps them visiting time and time again.

Last points.. I read that well basically Disney can take away because essentially the stupid tourists don't know any better. That is true, but then Disney is on yet another advertising blitz to grow the local Annual Pass base. Well, if you are interested in growing your base of regulars, those are the type of people who do notice when you take things away and raise prices, so the effort to get the locals won't matter much in the end once they realize that it's a continual game of taking away from the consumer.

I think the key here is growing your base of regulars. Meaning getting more people to buy in - those not so well versed to these changes. They may not notice this game for several years and may rationalize the worthiness of their investment when weighing the supposed "fringe benefits" an AP holder gets over the regular guest.

Safari Steve
03-10-2003, 07:52 AM
I have not contributed to this argument.
I have, for the majority of my time on these boards, tried to stay away from threads such as these.
I do not enjoy giving bad news, nor do I know anyone at work who does, and I resent the implication that I would.
I am also a stockholder and a guest, and I see things come from marketing and scheduling and other departments that make me balk. Another thing that makes me balk is when I see people discount offerings produced by Entertainment and Operations and other departments. It is as if the person at the airport ticket counter was rude and so you yell at the flight attendant. It is as if your meal was burned, so you stiff the waiter on the tip. WDW is divided into many different departments, and WDW itself is a division of TWDC. lots of different people, lots of different chains of command. My area manager did not choose the type of chicken served, and niether did Mr. Eisner. Someone in Food and Bev purchasing made that choice (I can't pretend to know the reasoning, but I do know that in the past, what has been percieved as a greedy entertainment 'cut' here on the boards was a result of talent agencies violating contracts and other behind-the-scenes things that guests and our experts here on the boards are not privy to.)

And to lump me in with marketing... I am pretty disgusted with that. When I post about something I find new and exciting, that is all that it is. I am not trying to put up a smoke screen. I don't have extra motives. I'm not on the marketing payroll. When I post about the new opening ceremony, it's because I enjoyed it and wanted other people to enjoy it. When I posted about the UL exhibit at Innoventions, it was because I thought others here would like to know what was going on in that corner of the building and because I had seen no mention of it here. To imply that I (or others like me) am fighting or arguing is bad enough. To imply that I am one of the minions of "the bad guy" is pretty much the lamest thing I have read on this board in a long time. I don't appreciate having words put into my mouth, and I don't appreciate being put on the spot, and I don't appreciate being villified.

(By the way, I saw those "nuggets" last week at Catalina Eddie's on Sunset... pretty gross looking. I am sure that if there are enough complaints that Global F&B will change distributors. They are constantly doing surveys to determine what guests think of the food. Recently, there was a changeover in mac and cheese as a result of a taste-test that was initiated because of guest comments about inconsistencies in the different recipes used at that time across property.)

bigdisneydaddy
03-10-2003, 08:06 AM
Steve, I ALWAYS look forward to your reports. You have provided valuable credible information on these boards.
I have seen CM abused at WDW in almost every manner, sometimes people encounter "rude" CM because they have set the tone for the exchange. No one, no matter what their work should have to accept abusive behavior, Unfortunately the world is full of obnoxious people, If anyone doubts that, try working in the service industry and deal with the public.

airlarry!
03-10-2003, 10:09 AM
I have had one bad experience with a CM in 25 years of going to Disneyworld.

One.

Every other encounter with a CM has either exceeded or surpassed my expectations. In fact, housekeeping ALWAYS exceeds my expectations.

I have seen it happen, but I would never take out on a CM what I know to be a decision made by other people. Just because it isn't right to cut out 25% of the meal and charge the same amount does not mean you can take it out on the CM who serves you the plate.

Is there some background on The Great Chicken Finger Caper you could share, M. Steve?

roymccoy
03-10-2003, 11:29 AM
Safari Steve...

I didn't mean to infer that you would tell a guest "with glee" about cutbacks. I went back and reread my post and I could see how you could make that assumption and I'm sorry for the poor wording. You are an important CM perspective to have on this board and I look forward to reading your posts and your comments. My "Safari Steve?" comment at the end of my post was to try to get your point of view, not to infer that you would be one of the "gleeful" ones.

What I meant to say was that there have DEFINITELY been cases that I remember in the last couple of years where some CM's got a smile on their faces when they told me that something was no longer available, higher in price, cutback, etc. Personally, I don't know why they would smirk when they said it but they most definitely have.
The two most recent cases that I can think of that we have experienced:

1. When we went to buy a child's AP for my 3 year old and the CM just seemed to be giddy when she explained that there is only an adult AP. She was VERY giddy.

2. When you ask if a restaurant or store gives you a discount for an AP, the CM's sometimes can't wait to tell you "no." It seems to be the high point of their day. They can't wait to throw it back to you quick enough.

Anyway, again Safari Steve, if all CM's had your loyalty to Disney and the Disney name, I think the parks would be in a whole lot less trouble!

Roy

missy28
03-10-2003, 01:17 PM
If it's that big of a deal, I have some frozen chicken fingers in the freezer... I could mail you one...they are probably the same kind Disney 'unfreezes' and serves.

YoHo
03-10-2003, 01:22 PM
Again, I'm gonna skip reading a couple pages just to point out that Disneyland still gives you 4 chicken fingers. or a cheaper 3 finger meal if you prefer. And the portions at the barbeque/Mexican place are huge and they still have Bengal Barbeque......
[RASPBERRY] PTHBBBBBBBBT!!!!

Sounds like a Disney WORLD problem, NOT a DISNEY problem.

HB2K
03-10-2003, 01:24 PM
My area manager did not choose the type of chicken served, and niether did Mr. Eisner. Someone in Food and Bev purchasing made that choice (I can't pretend to know the reasoning, but I do know that in the past, what has been percieved as a greedy entertainment 'cut' here on the boards was a result of talent agencies violating contracts and other behind-the-scenes things that guests and our experts here on the boards are not privy to.)

Seven degrees of management...

Ei$ner decrees to his minions he wants costs cut at the theme parks because he wants another cable network, Power ranger re-runs, an extra slice of cheesecake with his expensed lunch (Bet he gets the fourth chicken finger).

So Ei$ner's minions then go to their minions, and tell them to start thinking of ways to make Mr. Ei$ner's dreams come true. So these second level minons make decisions.

Then these second level minions go to their employees and tell them the changes and expect them to be implemented.

Then we get to the CM's....these poor people. They get the brunt of the public's response to these decisions.

Ei$ner may not be hovering over the minimum wage CM slaving over the fry o later to make sure there are no "extra" chicken fingers making it into your basket, but he set the wheels in motion to make it happen.

And Steve, while I enjoy your posts as much as the next person, you're working at a job which requires you to interact with the public as a representative of the WDC. What do you expect customers to say to you....they love getting one less piece of chicken for the same price they paid for last years larger portions?

raidermatt
03-10-2003, 01:36 PM
Steve, I don't think anybody considers you a minion. We all have different perspectives from which we form our opinions.

Its clear when you post info it is from a genuine desire to pass the information along, and you rarely, if ever, use it as "proof" that things are ok. I know some don't always catch on to that somewhat subtle differentiation, but I think most do, and certainly we appreciate the contribution you make.

As for why a CM would seem to be passing on "bad news" with glee, it's probably because that's how they conduct ALL of their guest interactions. I doubt they are trained to tell guests "I know it stinks, but I can't do anything about it". In these cases, there's a fine line between empathizing with the customer and "bad-mouthing" the company, so my guess is most CMs err on the positive side, and understandably so.

C.Ann
03-10-2003, 05:31 PM
I've never had a bad interaction with a CM.. Given the conditions they work under (extreme heat, grumpy visitors, low wages, job uncertainties, etc.) I think they go above and beyond - at least in the parks anyhow..

The problems are a result of the decisions that are made much higher up the ladder.. When will Eisner and the likes of him realize that they are running Disney World into the ground?

If they want people to come - and return - they need to make it worthwhile.. Giving "less" (of anything) isn't going to cut it..

Planogirl
03-11-2003, 12:08 AM
If they want people to come - and return - they need to make it worthwhile.. Giving "less" (of anything) isn't going to cut it..
C. Ann, I love your comments!

I noticed earlier that a few posters mentioned customer surveys justifying the lost chicken strip. I can hear the question now, "when you order a chicken finger meal do you eat three strips?" Not to be cynical but experience has shown me that questions can be easily phrased to suit someone's needs.

Safari Steve, I have had TWO bad experiences with CM's. That is in 12 visits dealing with countless CM's in all areas of the resorts. CM's are definitely not the problem, it's the higher ups that make these lame-brained decisions.

GeorgeY
03-31-2003, 10:01 AM
I have some first hand experience from this weekend on the Chicken Fingers issue. The 3 strips are very large, I'd say twice as large as they used to be. I am pretty familiar with them, because my 9 yr old and myself would sometimes just ride out to Epcot just to have a Chicken Finger meal at the Electric Umbrella. So now in my experience they are actually giving you more food now. The devils advocate in me says They may just be serving the large size now since there was actually media attention on the portion decrease, and will slowly decrease the size as the furor goes away.

George

DisneyKidds
03-31-2003, 10:17 AM
So now in my experience they are actually giving you more food now. The devils advocate in me says They may just be serving the large size now since there was actually media attention on the portion decrease, and will slowly decrease the size as the furor goes away.
You know, I don't recall if anyone in this thread even considered the possibility that this wasn't a cut at all. Thank you for your first hand, very relevant report. Maybe, just maybe, Disney did consider portion size (people get paid to do this in the restaurant biz all the time) and adjusted the number of fingers based on the fact that fingers from a new supplier were larger.

Sometimes people only see what they want to see...................and if someone were looking for a cutback to point out or complain about this may have provided an opportunity to find something that wasn't really there. I wonder how often that is done around here :confused: :crazy: :tongue: ;).

As for the 'media attention', I doubt Disney is temporarily going to a supplier of larger fingers in order to quell the uprising.

raidermatt
03-31-2003, 12:04 PM
Sometimes people only see what they want to see...................
How true, DK.

You know, if the fingers really are bigger, making the portion size the same, its "curious" that the CM who responded to the question from the OP only said that yes, the number of fingers were reduced, along with the number of fries.

One would think that the CM would have also pointed out that the fingers, and I guess fries too, are bigger than before, making the portion size the same. (Actually, if George's description is accurate, the portion size would have increased 50%.)

BRERALEX
03-31-2003, 12:13 PM
I am very familiar with the chicken fingers. Especially at Columbia harbour house, and the portion was smaller and honestly i thought the size was smaller too. there is no way the fingers at CHH are double the size now, no way. They used to be a nice decent size and to say they are double now is nuts.

MAYBE just MAYBE at the electrical umbrella it's a different story

TDC Nala
03-31-2003, 10:42 PM
i just got back from shoveling snow and while i was shoveling was wondering if AV you think that Ei$ner is Sauron and some of the board members are like the Urak hi** and then everyone else are orcs with a couple of cave trolls thrown in?

Who wants to be Gollum? Okay, I will...

"Aaargh, they've TAKEN my precious chicken finger..."

"But they're Disney! Disney loves us! Disney will take care of us!"

"They've TAKEN the chicken finger! They must pay!"

Another Voice
04-01-2003, 12:39 AM
"...wondering if AV you think that Ei$ner is Sauron..."

Nope.

He's just a man whose ambition is far greater than his talent and with a greed that blinds him to the damage he inflicts onto the future.

You can find these petty people in businesses all throughout the country. Sadly, he ended up at a company a lot of people care about.

crusader
04-01-2003, 06:05 AM
[He's just a man whose ambition is far greater than his talent and with a greed that blinds him to the damage he inflicts onto the future.

The key to success is surrounding yourself with top talent - and learning the true meaning of humility. Execs have been stroked to believe there is an entitlement simply because they got there. It's not entirely their fault. They are heralded upon recruitment and begin to reap the rewards before investing one minute of their time. This is not a unique industry practice - it is standard.

C.Ann
04-01-2003, 06:19 AM
Didn't I read on these boards several months ago how Disney had reduced the cost of their beverages? Perhaps they're trying to make up the cost difference by turning around and reducing the size of the food portions..

Wouldn't be the first time they manipulated their customers in this way..

Planogirl
04-01-2003, 08:10 AM
I heard about the reduced costs for beverages too. I didn't find them at WDW but I had heard about them. :( Maybe these reductions haven't kicked in yet?

YoHo
04-03-2003, 12:43 AM
Considering all of their coke products are completely free, I can't imagine that reducing their cost put that big a strain on thier profits.