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View Full Version : Just heard that Disney bought back all contracts under $70.


luckytso
02-24-2003, 03:56 PM
Just got off the phone with a resale broker. She said that, for all the resales that she got back this week, Disney bought back EVERY contract that was submitted under $70 regardless of resort or points, including the ones without any points left. She was amazed. No more specifics.

ncligs
02-24-2003, 04:11 PM
We were also told that at the members update at OKW last week.
So if anybody is looking at re-sales, you better be patient or bid higher than $71 pt.

tiberius
02-24-2003, 04:36 PM
I checked with my resale broker today. He said, if I remember correctly, he saw under $68 contracts bought back and $70 plus go through. I do not know which resorts. I assumed he did not have any contracts between those figures. I am still waiting to hear on my resale at $69.75/point.

reneesam
02-24-2003, 05:29 PM
Nearly every offering on the resale sites list prices below that...some as low as $60/point. I guess a lot of sellers will be selling back to DVC. Is it even worth putting in a bid on one of these?

Poorman
02-24-2003, 06:00 PM
Just because they are listing the points at $62 or there abouts doesn't mean that is what you have to offer them. Also if Disney exercises ROFR you can counter with a higher price and start it all over again. The offer still has to be accepted by the seller though.
I may be going through that after I hear about my BWV offer of $70.00. I may counter with a higher offer and if the sellers will wait it starts again. It's a big crap shoot. Rich

DebbieB
02-24-2003, 06:20 PM
I didn't think Disney had to let you counter offer, they can just take it. It's their option, I bet they don't if they want the contract.

Poorman
02-24-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by DebbieB
I didn't think Disney had to let you counter offer, they can just take it. It's their option, I bet they don't if they want the contract.

Check with The Timeshare Store they will set you straight.

Maistre Gracey
02-24-2003, 06:38 PM
It sounds like DVD does not want to run out of points before SSR starts selling. :cool:

luckytso
02-24-2003, 06:41 PM
Debbie,

If Disney exercises its ROFR, the seller can refuse Disney's offer so that the buyer can increase the price to do it all over again. That is what Poorman was referring to.

Richyams
02-24-2003, 06:41 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe we heard from more than one person who had ROFR exercised against them, that they NEVER got a chance to counter offer.

I believe in the past, Disney did give a chance to counter offer, I am not certain that this is the case any longer.

Poorman
02-24-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Richyams
I could be wrong, but I believe we heard from more than one person who had ROFR exercised against them, that they NEVER got a chance to counter offer.

I believe in the past, Disney did give a chance to counter offer, I am not certain that this is the case any longer.

Remember Richyams, the seller has entered into a contract with the buyer NOT Disney. The seller does not have to sell to Disney just because Disney wants the points. The whole process starts again if the seller wants it to, there have been cases where it has happened and it has worked.

DownNeckBoy
02-24-2003, 06:55 PM
If the seller offers his points @ "x" per point, whether it is Disney or the buyer whose bid he or she accepted, why should the seller care who bought the points?

:confused:

Maistre Gracey
02-24-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Poorman
Remember Richyams, the seller has entered into a contract with the buyer NOT Disney. The seller does not have to sell to Disney just because Disney wants the points. The whole process starts again if the seller wants it to, there have been cases where it has happened and it has worked.
The way I see it, the seller did enter into a contract with DVD when they first bought their points. They agreed to ROFR. Anyway, I am not sure why the seller would care who bought the points (private individual or DVD), as long as they sold for the negotiated price.

Dean
02-24-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Poorman
Just because they are listing the points at $62 or there abouts doesn't mean that is what you have to offer them. Also if Disney exercises ROFR you can counter with a higher price and start it all over again. The offer still has to be accepted by the seller though.
I may be going through that after I hear about my BWV offer of $70.00. I may counter with a higher offer and if the sellers will wait it starts again. It's a big crap shoot. Rich They no longer give you the easy option of amending your offer, that doesn't mean you can't contact them and ask to resubmit. I know I was told by one resale agent that sometimes they didn't know it was bought back until they got the check from DVC. As for contractual issues, the DVC member has an existing contract with DVC that is conditional. It supercedes the contract with the potential buy.

Maistre Gracey
02-24-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by DownNeckBoy
If the seller offers his points @ "x" per point, whether it is Disney or the buyer whose bid he or she accepted, why should the seller care who bought the points?

:confused: Looks like we were typing the same thought, at the same time.....:cool:

goofy4dvc
02-24-2003, 07:00 PM
Most of the VB resales I've seen are asking in the range of $68. What's your thoughts about successfully selling VB, either through resale or ROFR? Thanks.

Poorman
02-24-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Dean
They no longer give you the easy option of amending your offer, that doesn't mean you can't contact them and ask to resubmit. I know I was told by one resale agent that sometimes they didn't know it was bought back until they got the check from DVC. As for contractual issues, the DVC member has an existing contract with DVC that is conditional. It supercedes the contract with the potential buy.

Dean, I could be wrong but this is what I was told by Pat Spell at TTS. She said it happened recently that a seller agreed to sell their contact to a buyer, Disney did the ROFR and the buyer added $3.00 per point and the seller agreed to wait for the extra $900.00. The buyer got the contract. I don't know how recently this was. It could have been before all this stuff has been happening. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this is what I was told.

Dean
02-24-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Poorman
Dean, I could be wrong but this is what I was told by Pat Spell at TTS. She said it happened recently that a seller agreed to sell their contact to a buyer, Disney did the ROFR and the buyer added $3.00 per point and the seller agreed to wait for the extra $900.00. The buyer got the contract. I don't know how recently this was. It could have been before all this stuff has been happening. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this is what I was told. I know it's happened in the past, it was he usual MO a couple of years ago. I don't think it happens anymore. One time doesn't make it the usual. I know someone who a few years ago submitted 3 times raising their bid from $40, to $45 then to $50 pp before DVC would let it go through but now they just buy it back, at least almost all of the time.

Richyams
02-24-2003, 09:21 PM
the seller has entered into a contract with the buyer NOT Disney

Got to agree with Dean here. The seller certainly does have a prior(senior?) obligation to Disney. Disney is intrinsically involved in the deal. They get first shot. I think that they are completely within their rights to simply wrote a check to the seller for the amount of a bona-fide, accepted offer.

Just write a check, send it to the broker, done.....nothing in the contract about re-submitting. Why would there be?

CGregoryJr
02-24-2003, 09:24 PM
If Disney's ROFR is not unconditionally unilateral, it would be one of the worst contractual stipulations in any legal agreement I have ever seen. Not too likely to be the case for the Mouse's legal staff and general counsel. Don't bet the ranch on the prospect of a counter-offer. Once the offer is accepted by our friends at Disney (by virtue of their exercise of ROFR), it's a done deal. Prior to such an acceptance by Disney, presumably the Seller can indicate that the original offer was modified post-submission to Disney. In any event, they will always get the last word.

todsue99
02-25-2003, 09:16 AM
Just so all you guys know. If the seller is willing to wait they do not have to except Disney's offer. I have a friend who has been trying to buy from The Time Share Store and they are on their third try. They started at $63 dollars a point (I think) and then $68 which was turned down yesterday and now they are up to $72. As long as the seller is willing to wait they can renagotiate it. Way wouldn't the seller wait, they are $2700 ahead. It is a 300 point contract. Just thought it might clear things up.

CarolA
02-25-2003, 09:26 AM
Well the seller is taking a chance that I will come back with a higher bid. If 68 was my bid on contact with no current points I probably would not come back with more money. SO... the seller tells Disney no, I say no and the seller has NO money. Sometimes you should take the money and run!

todsue99
02-25-2003, 09:30 AM
In my friends case they contacted the seller and told them they were going to offer more.

Poorman
02-25-2003, 08:19 PM
I rest my case.

CGregoryJr
02-25-2003, 09:01 PM
With all due respect, it appears that many folks have failed to get their facts straight regarding these "instances" where there was ostensibly a bidding war between a third party purchaser and Disney. The stipulations in a ROFR are clear and unambiguous. They permit the individual possessing the right to stand in the place of a purchaser where there has been a bona fide offer and acceptance. When the seller executes the sales contract, they have entered into a binding agreement with the purchaser and Disney (by virtue of Disney's ROFR). Such rights are designed to preclude a "bidding war" for obvious reasons. While I am not asserting that I possess any personal insight regarding cases that have been discussed herein, I can only suggest that there is a very strong likelihood that the actual fact pattern differs from the set of circumstances depicted in the various postings. Most importantly, I am interested in making sure the users of the forum are obtaining the best possible advice. I know that's why I log on this site several times a week. To get the views of those who are really in the know regarding this product.

Dean
02-25-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by CGregoryJr
With all due respect, it appears that many folks have failed to get their facts straight regarding these "instances" where there was ostensibly a bidding war between a third party purchaser and Disney. The stipulations in a ROFR are clear and unambiguous. They permit the individual possessing the right to stand in the place of a purchaser where there has been a bona fide offer and acceptance. When the seller executes the sales contract, they have entered into a binding agreement with the purchaser and Disney (by virtue of Disney's ROFR). Such rights are designed to preclude a "bidding war" for obvious reasons. While I am not asserting that I possess any personal insight regarding cases that have been discussed herein, I can only suggest that there is a very strong likelihood that the actual fact pattern differs from the set of circumstances depicted in the various postings. Most importantly, I am interested in making sure the users of the forum are obtaining the best possible advice. I know that's why I log on this site several times a week. To get the views of those who are really in the know regarding this product. I know for certain that it was common for DVC to offer for the parties to resubmit a couple of years ago. I also know that there have been some changes in how this works in the last couple of years. DVC no longer makes that offer but that doesn't mean that the buyer and seller couldn't contact DVC and ask to resubmit. DVC could say no but they don't have to. I also know that one of the resale agents said the first contact they usually got when it had been denied was a check from DVC suggesting they no longer went out of their way to allow the parties to resubmit.

todsue99
02-26-2003, 08:49 AM
I don't know any legal things, but just from what our friends are doing. They are submitting it for the third time. I do not know if they asked DVC if they could or not. I did not mean to offend anyone. I just know they are doing it.

DebbieB
02-26-2003, 05:37 PM
DVC may allow counteroffers as a courtesy, but I don't believe there's anything in the purchase agreement that requires them to.

I'm looking at mine dated 1/5/99:

Before PURCHASER (exact puncuation) may resell PURCHASER's Ownership Interest to a third party, PURCHASER is required to offer it to DVD upon the same terms and conditions, including financing, as is offered by or to the third party. Accordingly, PURCHASER must notify DVD in writing no less than thirty (30) days in advance of the proposed closing date of PURCHASER's intent to sell and must include a copy of the proposed transaction reducing to writing in all respects. Upon receipt of such written notice, DVD shall determine prior to the closing date whether it wishes to exercise its right of first refusal. If DVD elects to exercise its right of first refusal, DVD shall notify the PURCHASER in writing of such election, and the purchase of DVD shall be closed on or before the proposed closing date.
If DVD fails to notify PURCHASER of its election to exercise its right of first refusal prior to the proposed closing date, PURCHASER may proceed to close the transaction with the third party upon the original terms and conditions offered by or to the third party. DVD's right of first refusal is a covenant that runs with the land and shall always be a requirement binding on any sucessor in title to PURCHASER.

CGregoryJr
02-26-2003, 06:38 PM
Imagine that. An unconditional, unilateral and unambiguous ROFR. I guess the Mouse's general counsel has his/her act together after all. Who could have possibly envisioned such a result?

Dean
02-26-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by CGregoryJr
Imagine that. An unconditional, unilateral and unambiguous ROFR. I guess the Mouse's general counsel has his/her act together after all. Who could have possibly envisioned such a result? No one disputes the contractual arrangement, only it's implementation. In the past it has not been DVC's intent to buy back properties only to prop up the resale price to avoid major competion to new sales. Either way discribed will do that. I know for certain that they previously allowed one to resubmit. I also know they do not routinely offer this option now but may entertain it if requested. I also know that in many cases they have not given any options to resubmit and just bought it back, especially the last 2 years or so.

msdis
02-26-2003, 11:13 PM
I think this is shortlived. There are a lot of people on waitlists for buybacks. Some of those as in a recent post, may no longer want those points as they have bought elsewhere or have changed their minds. Once those lists are cleaned up, Disney will have "dead" inventory until potential buyers are made aware most likely by agents calling people who already own at those resorts. If people keep chasing the price, Disney will stop. It will no longer be in their best interest. Also, right after 9/11 the resale board tripled and you couldn't get people to buy. Not to be negative, but that opportunity is just around the corner with all the negative talk going on. I say to those who can wait it out, those prices will come back down again for a while, it's just like any other market.