View Full Version : Just heard disturbing news, if the US goes to war with Iraq

01-23-2003, 09:48 PM
On the news tonight there was talk about a US border "lock down" if the US goes to war with Iraq. The piece dealt mainly with how this would have a devastating affect on the Canadian economy. It would also affect travel plans. Any thoughts?

01-23-2003, 10:01 PM
Yeah, I heard news of that too :( ... I know that the Public Security Minister from Ontario (and others) in Washingon meeting about that. They're trying to keep the US-Canada border open while talking about maintaining a North American border instead. Definetly bad news if the close the border completely, both for us Disney fans and Canadian and US businesses too.

01-24-2003, 09:03 AM
Oh great.:( I had a feeling something like this might take place.....we're going down mid March with family from Ontario and the UK and it would just be our luck not to be able to get through the boarder or not be able to get back.Julie you'd be in the same boat too. Ughhhhh this whole thing is affecting so much of our day to day lives and I can't see it ending in the near future.:(

01-24-2003, 10:48 AM
Julie: Do you remember which news program you saw this on? This would be devastating to the travel industry.


01-24-2003, 03:12 PM
Peggy, it may have been CityTV news but I'm not sure. First, the news article had to do with Ontario Public Safety and Security Minister, Bob Runciman's, visit to Washington to meet with US Officials.

Then, they showed a short interview, with a woman from the Canadian Trucking Alliance, commenting about the news of a possible border "lockdown" and our economy.

I did find this commentary on the National Post's website today about the new US Department of Homeland Security:


And the only article I can find about Runciman's visit that mentions increased border checks if war breaks out with Iraq:


I am surprised that I can't find more, specifically, about what they were talking about last night on the TV. I will be anxiously watching for any follow-ups on this news.

Yzma and Kronk
01-24-2003, 04:32 PM
Hi from Georgia! We just moved down here from Burlington a year ago. Interesting news....thanks! I checked the Atlanta papers, and local news and nothing about this at all. (I do miss reading the Canadian papers.....it's just not the same here!) Very scary stuff - thanks for the heads up.

01-24-2003, 11:43 PM
Julie, I'm surprised that there wasn't more on the story too. I think they lumped that story in with two others and that aspect of the Washington trip got little mention. I've heard a couple versions of the story ... most of them focused on corruption in the Toronto Police Force and illegal guns in Toronto (police chief Julian Fantino was going on the trip too)... We'll probably hear more when they get back. Here's another article from canada.com I found...


01-25-2003, 12:15 AM
Hi Yzma and Kronk :wave:. How's the weather down there? A bit chilly, I hear :eek:

bunnyfoo, I couldn't get your link to work, but I went to Canada.com and found this article, below. The news I heard last night is near the bottom of the article at ***. Dh has just applied for the NEXUS border pass, since he travels to the US frequently. I wonder if that will still speed up border crossings in light of a war with Iraq? Here is the article:

Canada needs U.S. to fight smuggling
Cross-border trade in guns is keeping criminals armed, Runciman says

Gary Dimmock
The Ottawa Citizen

Friday, January 24, 2003

The illegal gun trade between the United States and Canada is so uncontrollable that Ontario Security Minister Bob Runciman and Toronto police Chief Julian Fantino will urge the U.S. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Agency to post "permanent" agents in Toronto to combat the flow of smuggled guns.

In border security talks in Washington yesterday, U.S. Customs revealed that American gun dealers do not need a licence to sell weapons, including restricted firearms, to buyers in Canada -- the only country in the world without such a provision.

"We were quite surprised, to say the least," Mr. Runciman said from Washington last night.

"I don't think there's any secret about the gun crime problems we've been having, especially in Toronto," Mr. Runciman added.

"In the context of spending $1 billion dollars, or who knows how much, on registering Canadian farmers with shotguns, here we have a real problem which could be changed really quickly through an agreement with the United States. But the federal government has been silent about it, let alone doing anything about it," the security minister told the Citizen.

Some of the guns used in recent murders in Toronto have been linked to the illegal trade.

Chief Fantino, who met yesterday with senior U.S. Customs, ATF, and FBI staff yesterday, is a "very strong proponent" to enlist U.S. help.

"The chief is extremely high on this so we're going to make a concerted effort to make this happen. The (ATF) has never been approached about having a permanent presence. And U.S. Customs sees it as an impediment in the challenge against gun smuggling," Mr. Runciman said.

Ontario's security minister said his department must still research why U.S. gun dealers can sell to Canadians unfettered, but explained its origin is rooted in the military equipment trade.

By sharing intelligence with U.S. agents, Mr. Runciman hopes to control gun crime, rather than guns alone.

"The gun registry thing was meaningless on its impact on crime. It focused on the wrong people and it had no effect on the street. It was all politics. Regrettably, it cost a hell of a lot to learn that lesson," he said.

***Mr. Runciman and Chief Fantino were in Washington yesterday to discuss border security issues in light of the looming conflict in Iraq.

The security minister said citizens crossing the border can expect long delays and police checks -- including a proposal to have U.S. agents, who, unlike Canadian customs officers, are armed, help in searches.

They were also warned that every single person entering the U.S. may in fact be treated with suspicion.

"We were fearful of a lockdown on the border and our concerns were founded. We certainly had indication today from American officials that indeed may occur if there is a war," Mr. Runciman said.

The Canadian trucking industry has held the same fears for months.

Increased security checks at land crossings are expected to create havoc in the cross-border industry, a $1.6 billion-dollar-a-day trade.

"With the issues surfacing now under homeland security, we're getting a lot of clues. It's going to be a lot tighter than it was before," Elly Meister, of the Canadian Trucking Alliance, told Global National.

01-25-2003, 09:37 AM
Yzma and Kronk, I just sent you a PM....wondering about some Atlanta info. Let me know if you have any input. Thanks Jo

01-29-2003, 10:18 AM

01-31-2003, 11:33 AM
Right now there is a lot of Anti-Canadianism because we won't go along with Bush!

But then again that's with the Politicians!


02-01-2003, 09:41 PM
I can't believe all this....locking down the border??Are they meaning for a short period of time if war is declared? Or indefinately?? I have got to hear more about this...I am travelling back and forth to Orlando in the next 4 weeks(job interview & vacay) with my luck, I'll be frantically emailing you from some airport not being able to get home....maybe, I'll get stranded on the cruise ship...that wouldn't be too hard to take. Nope, sorry, can't get off, the border is closed...

02-01-2003, 10:57 PM
I am supposed to be taking my mum down for a week or so in April and now I know that she is nervous over all of the talk about the U.S. going to war.

I had to tell her that if war was declared, we definitely would not be attempting to go. I think it made her feel better--but made me feel disappointed.

I know that in the big scheme of things, it's not that important, but I will still be disappointed...

having a disney day......


02-02-2003, 02:57 AM
Anti-Canadian sentiment - that's only from the ones who don't know better. It's THEIR president who wants to dominate the world... he should at least do it legally. I doubt they will lockdown the border between the US and Canada, but I bet lineups will increase greatly.

02-10-2003, 02:04 PM
I'm a US citizen, and trust me, we don't all agree with "He who speaks with forked tongue". I'm of the "if the UN wants to do something about it, then we should all be equal participants in the action", but one Lone Ranger in the Whitehosue trying to clean up the mess his daddy left behind 11 years ago is one dangerous man.


02-10-2003, 11:10 PM
Thanks for that Ducklite!!!!! All you have to do is tune in to CNN for 20 minutes and see them spin doctoring all the angles of this entire situation to realize that not all is as it seems in the White House these days. I am sure that there are many US citizens who feel as strongly as you do and that the "fact" that the UN is trying to negoiate a very precarious situation is obvious to all...worldwide. As for anti-Canadian sentiment....when I go down on march 5th I'll still be proudly sporting my Roots tees, Canadian "hemp" medallion necklace and have my "PIERRE" beenie buddy proudly perch in the back window of my VW Golf as I travel down the I-75...so bring it on...I AM CANADIAN isn't just a catchphrase thought up by some marketing company you know (Molson Canadian just happens to own the rights that's all)!!! The U.S is known for it's "in your face patriotism" but that doesn't mean that because we Canadians are known for you politeness that we feel any less patriotic towards our country. Hell I am glad that I live in a country that gives me the choice between vacationing in the U.S or travelling to a communist country like Cuba. We have the choices, our government does not strong arm us and maybe that is why Canada has the highest standard of living in the world, choices mean everything.....I'am Canadian, I'am fortunate and I count my blessings everyday. I belong on the debate board...yeesh...I just fell off my soapbox(I hope I didn't break anything..that would ruin my vacation) Pkitty

02-11-2003, 08:55 AM
Although we are all concerned about the very real possibility of war, please try and keep your replies focused on the poster's original question. Thank you! :)

02-11-2003, 02:03 PM
Thank you Kim for putting this thread on the original track. I have written volumes under this thread about my views but deleted them knowing they don't serve a purpose here. I respect Julie too much too get off track. However I do see a need for a Canadian prospective of the situations discussed and I would welcome a new thread about our views in the Canadian Boards. I would prefer to exercise my freedom of speach in the Canadian Boards rather than the Debate Boards as I don't like the tone in the Debate Boards and rarely visit because the personalities and issues don't reflect who I am. I would be comfortable in a "Canadian Prospective of Bush/Iraq" thread on the Canadian Boards because I know we respect each other here without judgement or insult. Thanks again! Sandra

02-11-2003, 02:55 PM
It is a good thing isn't it ! Just remember that as you sit and type another message. Knowing we all will read your comments as well, sticking to the general question/s or not. As long as it is tasteful and without malice or ill will towards anybody or people in general, and is part of your genuine response to the question/s. I suppose straying off the topic every now and then while expressing your view to the related topic is only human of us and part of furthering our communication with each other; Like two people talking over a cup of coffee. If you are that disinterested in how one may want to express their opinion; then you have the right to pass it over and read onto the next response.
I look foreward to reading all your comments good, bad or DIFFERENT.
My view on the boarder situation is. If you have not got a pass port and they lock down the boarder it will require a little more time getting in, if you have your 2 pieces of ID. If they intend on making it mandatory to have a pass port they will honour us enough time to get them ie: 10 days or more prior to making it mandatory, due to people needing the time to get them. I believe 10 days is the min. time it takes to get one.
PKITTY'S husband not to be confused with the real PKITTY.

02-11-2003, 03:01 PM
I'm sorry, but we don't allow political issues to be debated on the trip planning boards. It's okay to post factual information, for example if there is a crack down at the border, but political issues are for the Debate board.

Thank you for your cooperation.

02-11-2003, 03:12 PM
Thank you again Kim. I appreciate your post. I will help steer back on track.

Hi Julie ~ I understand your concerns about travelling to the States soon. It's easy for me to say, 'don't worry and enjoy your trip' because my trip is a year away. Instead I will offer you a prayer and good thought for a wonderful and safe trip. We went to WDW seven months after 9/11 attacks and we were confident that we were safe. I wish you the very best! S

02-11-2003, 03:18 PM
Maybe you should take a stroll over to the debate board and read some of the crud over there. from what I am seeing its a good thing there is a computer screen and millions of miles of cable between some of those guy's. other wise there would be some serious happenings going on. Any ways I will be the first to admit I didn't know I was on the Planning board.
sorry for the mistake.