Artist Point

[jnl81]

Character breakfast...anyone know the truth? Going, or not? Some CM at WDW-DINE say yes, some say no, so who are we to believe?

[caitycaity]

3 times I have called, and 3 times I have been told that it's getting the axe. :(

[Luv2Dream]

According to reports on the restaurant board, the Artist Point character breakfast is done 6/1/01....:(

[wdhatter]

Yes, it is definitely done. The Characters will no longer be doing breakfast at Artist Point. There was just never enough business there.

[jrgutknecht]

There was no business there. We went for breakfast on 5/11 with no PS. There was no wait and only 1/4 of the tables were full and it was only 9:30.

I was also suprised that dinner was slow as well. The Whispering Canyon on the other hand was packed! Maybe they should move the characters there??

[MaryJ]

I'd have to agree. We ate at both Whispering Pines and Artist Pointe. I think the atmosphere at Whispering Pines is more favorable for a character breakfast than Artist Pointe. Move the character breakfast to Whispering Pines!:earseek:

[JeffJewell]

...to try to confirm my PS for the Artist Point character breakfast on Friday, June 15th. The CM happily said, yep, it's in there, you're in good shape. I mentioned how relieved I was, because I'd been hearing rumors that they'd cancelled the breakfast. She asked me to wait a minute, put me on hold, then returned to say, yes, as of June 1, the Pooh breakfast at Artist Point was cancelled. She said that someone would be contacting PS holders to "make other arrangements," but that she could do that for us immediately. Not knowing what Suzy wanted to do as a back-up, I asked the CM that she leave me on the list to be contacted.

There goes that tradition. And not even the decency to honor already made reservations. It will be interesting to see how soon Disney gets around to contacting me about my PS.

Eisner's Disney has been breaking a lot of its promises and commitments to me, recently. More and more budget cuts that are directly affecting the guest's experience in a negative way.

Jeff

[Planogirl]

I heard from several people that the food at Artist Point left a lot to be desired. I also think that it was more difficult to get to the WL than other venues so that always hurt that restaurant. Perhaps with better food and transportation, things would have picked up?

It's too bad because I guess that leaves only the Crystal Palace as a place to see Pooh and friends which means that we'd better make PS this time.

[DVC-Landbaron]

It's too bad because I guess that leaves only the Crystal Palace as a place to see Pooh and friends which means that we'd better make PS this time.
Ah! Not so! Try Olivia's at Old Key West for a breakfast with Pooh.

Good luck!!!

[DisDuck]

Just for the record JJ, what promises and commintments did Disney make to you?

In all my trips I never considered anything as a personal promise or commitment.

[YoHo]

In the other thread I said I wouldn't defend disney, in this thread I will, and I will try not to trivialize things.


Look, What do you say to all those fan's of Mine Train through Rainbow Cavernes/Mine Train through Nature's Wonderland.
http://www.yesterland.com/rcminetrain.html


This attraction was closed to make way for Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, before Micheal Eisner was in charge.

Attendence was low, so they put in a new ride. (you can still see some of the old tracks and an engine at Disneyland from the rivers of America/Tom sawyer's Island)
What do you say to those guests?

Mike may or may not be ruining Disney, but things close and change all the time. I can tell you right now that if they ever close Tony's, My Fiancee could have the same reaction, but that's the price we pay, that's the price we always had to pay from July 1955.

[DVC-Landbaron]

Far be it from me to defend JeffJewel's position. He can certainly put a sentence together better than I can. But I think you missed the point, YoHo.
What do you say to those guests?
Well, if they are standing in line at the time you decide to close it, you let them ride it one last time. To me that is what a PS means. A little planning on Disney's part would have alleviated all of his complaint (I think) but not his disappointment. Sure he would have been saddened by the change, but the bitter surprise wouldn't have occurred. This is the same thing that can be said about the hours of operation. Many people plan their vacations and tailor it to what happens to be happening at Disney at that particular time. It was like the first time they cut the hours on me. For over TWENTY-FIVE years they never closed before midnight!! Then suddenly, WITHOUT WARNING, they cut hours. Now they have every legal right to this. It says so at the bottom of all their literature, in very small print. But it does not make it right. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Just because Disney CAN do something, doesn't always mean it SHOULD. I'll be interested to see if they ever call Jeff about the change.

[YoHo]

Okay DVC, I can see that, but Priority Seatings can be made what 60, 90 days in advance? We're not talking about Standing in line at the reception desk, its a PS and those carry riders too that state that changes may occur. Its not pretty and its not fun, but its the way things happen. I'm sure there were people that went to the park one day expecting to go on the mine train only to confront a pardon our dust sign having missed it by one day. Remember, there was no internet back then to let us know every rediculous detail.

Again, I feel sorry for Jeff that this happen and I hope they go anyway, AND I understand why he is so upset, I sympathize, but I can't yet Empathize (or do I have those backwards).

[JeffJewell]

...the promises and commitments I refered to are officially posted park hours and show schedules (both of which were reduced weeks _after_ they were officially posted the first time around) and Priority Seating reservations for meals they decided they didn't want to serve _after_ they gave me my PS number.

I'm not against change as such; you don't hear me "blaming" Eisner for Eastern going out of business and If You Had Wings shutting down. Things change, we need to move on.

But Disney got me to give them money based on certain terms. Without telling me, Disney changed those terms. My vacation, whether I enjoy it or not, is measurably less than it was when I paid for it.

I've seen the disclaimers and you are right in that Disney is very careful to avoid making any binding commitments, and I probably have no legal recourse to pursue in this case. Unlike you, I do not feel it is desirable, okay, nor even a smart business practice to cheat the guests who've already given you money.

In all my trips I never considered anything as a personal promise or commitment.

Whatever. If you paid money for your vacation then showed up and park hours were noon to two and SpectroMagic was only shown every third Wednesday and they cancelled all the character meals, I imagine your tune would be a little different.

That's precisely what they've done to me, the only difference is the extent of the screwing. If you're happy with this, huzzah for you, you should be thrilled to know that I won't be competing with you for resort space anymore.

Once we get back from the June trip, I'll let you know whether or not there'll be two fewer people in the parks from now on, too.

Jeff

PS -
Well, if they are standing in line at the time you decide to close it, you let them ride it one last time.

Seems eminently logical, doesn't it? To bad Eisner cares nothing about the guest other than how much money Disney can take them for.

[DisDuck]

I will try to understand your viewpoint.

If I make a reservation 60 days in advance and due to lack of attendence the show is cancelled then since I have a reservation they should still have the show. Is that what you say? Disappointment, yes; anger, yes/maybe but what did they break? Sometimes, these change even at the last minute.

So last April (2000) when I expected EpCot to close at 9pm (with IllumiNations at 9pm) and instead the park closed at 10pm (with IllumiNation at 10pm) I should be disappointed and angry that the Disney Official Website was wrong.

On the PS, I agree with your anger. They should have called you and offered something else instead of you having to find out about it. But on park hours and show times, sorry, I cannot agree. Fine print or not 'subject to change without notice'. They do not have a commitment to keep the posted hours just because you or anyone else would like it.

Yes, it may have not been the desirable thing to do (don't know about smart business - if crowds smaller it might be smarter to close earlier and save operating costs) but they are not cheating the guest. There is the disclaimer; otherwise, everytime a ride is closed for rehab or breaks down during the day and has to be closed they are cheating the guest because 'they promise rides for you money - all rides not selected rides'.

No my tune would not be different. I would be disappointed maybe even angry but try to make the best of it. This is something I have no control over so why get bent out of shape. I can only exercise control over what is in my power to do so and in this example it is what kind of vacation I have.

People spend the same amount on tickets even when park officially closes early. That is way it always has been and yet few complain about price (some do but that is for another time/debate). How about the folks who had tickets, purchased in advance, drove up to the park entrance and were told at 'max' no more entry that day. Have they been cheated?

This has nothing to do with Eisner. Park hours, character breakfasts have come and gone since the beginning. I bet you that even posted hours changed without letting anyone know.

[JeffJewell]

So last April (2000) when I expected EpCot to close at 9pm (with IllumiNations at 9pm) and instead the park closed at 10pm (with IllumiNation at 10pm) I should be disappointed and angry that the Disney Official Website was wrong.

In your case, Disney surprisingly gave you more than what you bargained for, an extra something.

In the case we're discussing, Disney is surpringly taking away that which was previously bargained for.

One is good business, creating happy (and therefore, hopefully, long-term) guests. One is bad customer service and bad business, creating unhappy (and therefore, possibly, non-returning) guests.

Even those of you who worship Eisner's ability to cut budgets faster than people stop buying product (creating what shareholders will see as "profit," even though the business failed to grow) should be able to see that directly and negatively affecting the guests' perceived value of WDW vacations is a bad thing in the long run.

Jeff

[DisDuck]

Yes, perception is not good. But if crowds don't warrant it should they stay open later with all its attendent costs? That is the big question to be answered.

My answer would be no but if crowd size increases then switch back. Why, because what you don't want is decreased net revenue from the parks. If that happens then budget cuts could be even more drastic maybe even cutting into the core structure of the parks.

Better the short-term disappointment rather than long-term disappointment.

[JeffJewell]

Better the short-term disappointment rather than long-term disappointment

This is a business, and in business, a customer's short-term disappointment _creates_ a business' long-term disappointment.

This conversation is going nowhere, you obviously feel it's okay to keep taking more from and giving less to your customers, as long as it saves money on this quarter's balance sheet. I think that's a stupid and short-sighted way to do business.

Jeff

[YoHo]

TO get back on topic, I'd like to do some DVC style quoting

If I make a reservation 60 days in advance and due to lack of attendence the show is cancelled then since I have a reservation they should still have the show. Is that what you say? Disappointment, yes;
anger, yes/maybe but what did they break? Sometimes, these change even at the last minute.
Not only did you make a reservation, you were likely asked to pay for a ticket in advance. At least with priority seating you are not obligated to anything.

Look this is very simple. They more then likely simply stopped taking Priority seating for the breakfest one day, then took a look at the current list and chose a date based on number of PS.

JeffJ, we already have emphirical evidence that it was a low attendence breakfest, what if you were the only PS so far, or 1 of 3. Disney should trot out those characters for your three groups at standard pricing?
You weren't standing in line, you had a number on a computer that told you when you could go begin to stand in line.

[JeffJewell]

...look, we have a decision at the beginning of May to close the breakfast at the beginning of June. But there are PS booked to the beginning of July (60 days out).

What I am trying to say is that good business and good customer service would dictate that you eat it for that one lousy extra month. Throw together some ads for the "Pooh going-away party" and up the attendance for that one stinking month so you can live up to your end of the bargains you've already made.

Forget the roughshod these decisions ran over my honeymoon; my personal feelings are not important to this discussion.

Disney had a choice: do the cheapest thing possible and make some guests mad, or toss us a month's worth of crumbs and at least leave guests with some good memories, even though some will be sad.

Mad and sad are two entirely different things, when it comes to deciding if you want to give a business thousands more dollars sometime in the future.

The reality is that the incremental cost of keeping a breakfast open one more month is nothing compared to the long-term cost of angering guests; guests who are dedicated enough to plan months in advance and eat their meals at Disney's overpriced restaurants.

But closing restaurants tomorrow shows up on this quarter's actuals; pissing off guests won't show up on the bottom line for years after Eisner's cashed in his stock options. So once again, the cheap way is the Disney way.

Considering how expensive it is, WDW is becoming awfully cheap.

Jeff

[DVC-Landbaron]

Considering how expensive it is, WDW is becoming awfully cheap.

LOL!! LOL!!:crazy: :earseek: :jester: :D :) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Would you mind if I borrow that prase sometimes?

[JeffJewell]

Would you mind if I borrow that prase sometimes?

:D You may use it whenever and whereever you deem appropriate, with my compliments.

Jeff

PS - LandBaron, I'm already starting to wonder again if we're wasting our time, here. The Disney that created the quality we hope to see in current productions died many years ago, and there are too many people leeching too much money off of its corpse to care what we have to say.

I can't even explain the importance of customer service to repeat business (much less the importance of repeat business to a healthy company) to people without them racing to defend the company with the inarguable point that Disney did nothing that was technically illegal.

The concept that something may be legal and still be an idiotic business move seems to have eluded them, thus far. Sigh.

It'll really be interesting to see how much I enjoy my trip next month.

[YoHo]

Jeff, I wonder how you would feel if it was going away July 1st instead of june 1st. I agree though it would have been nice for them to give 60 day advance notice, but who knows, maybe they needed the cast members elsewhere on June 1.

[DVC-Landbaron]

JeffJewel:

You say that we're wasting our time. I couldn't agree more. BUT!! For me it is very cathartic. It helps shape my thoughts and it hones those little feelings that I talk about sometimes. And to tell you the truth, as long as the opposition is not dismissive (that really bugs me) they actually help to firm up my beliefs. I shake my head as I read their response and whisper that, "they just don't get it." And I go at it from a different angle. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think I'm doing any good convincing YoHo, Captain or DisDuck that we're right (I don't even think I've made much headway in this regard), but I it helps me solidify my position on the issues. Now, most of those vague feelings are cogent, logical arguments or at least reasons why at some future date I will sell off the DVC and retire my LandBaron status. I am also hoping that Ei$ner will go someday and the Board of Directors may wake up and appoint someone who does 'get it'. Wouldn't it be nice to stop all the complaining and just read trip reports every once in while?

I have also stated before just how naïve I can be sometimes. But I hold on to the hope that somewhere, someone of some importance (within Disney or a future key player in Disney) may just happen by here and catch the idea that the real fans are disappointed with the state of affairs lately. That they have got to start thinking about "What Would Walt Do?" I don't know. AV mentioned that Disney is holding (to some degree) internet discussions responsible for the failure of DCA. If it was at all possible that I contributed to this in even a small way, it has all been worth it.

Next. I really have to say that I respect everyone with whom I have my many dialogues. I think they know that and to start naming names would only leave out several who I'd happen to forget at the moment. But there are two posters, who happen to sit on my side of the aisle, that simply BLOW ME AWAY!! Another Voice is one. And you, my dear JeffJewel, is the other. AV has what seems like the inside track. And you have a way to cut through the minutia (that I spend pages getting sidetracked, trying to defend) and strike at the heart of the matter. Since I'm reluctant to give up my cathartic release, I would ask you to stay and post every so often, just to keep me on the straight and narrow. (Even a two word post would help. You know: "LandBaron - focus!!") And I would miss your insight very much if you did decide to leave. If nothing else I ask that you post your own "State of the Parks Address" when you get back from your honeymoon.

One other idea. Is this the only site you visit? If it is you may want to spread out a bit. E-mail me for some other beauties. Some of the people on these other sites (while die hard Disney fans) make us seem like Ei$ner loving moderates!!!! If nothing else it might give you a little perspective.

Have a nice ceremony and GREAT honeymoon!!!!!!!!!!!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[jnl81]

What kind of monster have we started here?

[JeffJewell]

Jeff, I wonder how you would feel if it was going away July 1st instead of june 1st. I agree though it would have been nice for them to give 60 day advance notice, but who knows, maybe they needed the cast members elsewhere on June 1.

Actually, and admittedly, for selfish reasons, I wouldn't have been bothered nearly so much by the change (Honestly, I'm not against change per se. I'm even in favor of change, if the change is for something of better quality).

The selfish part is that my existing PS would be honored: we'd be able to have our breakfast as planned.

The disappointing fact that the breakfast was "going away" would merely ensure that I take several extra photos, shoot several more minutes of video. Suzy may have teared up, but it would have been the good kind, instead of what happened when she heard our PS was simply cancelled.

I was one of those who made sure to get down there in March in time for the MSEP farewell; videotaped it again, from a different angle this time. Got my litho, signed the card. Cool experience.

I'm not saying I wanted an AP holder event to monument the demise of breakfast, but, even as you say, at least being open for the 60 day PS window would have been... much less odious, and not forced the cancellation of anyone's plans. A little WDW resort, buck-or-two-a-plate off ad campaign could certainly put some tails in seats for sixty crummy days.

You know? Why do things so cheaply that it can only upset people?

I still feel that only a bad businessman would run his business this way.

Jeff

PS - LandBaron, I do intend to write something along the lines of your address, after our June trip. But then again, I really intended to write a trip report of our March trip and never got around to doing that, so don't believe me until you see it.