Convincing the DW

[Always Grumpy]

I have been trying for the last couple of days to convince my DW to take the plunge. She keeps asking me to show her where the break even point is and what are the benefits and how does it pay to do this. PLEASE help me and try to convince her that this is worth it.

Thanks,
Always Grumpy

[Maistre Gracey]

Hi Grumpy! Is your wife a BIG Disney fan to start with? That will generally lay the foundation.
I could start quoting all the numbers, but here is an approximation of the cash equivalent: If you bought into DVC, a 1br at VWL, BCV, or BWV (preffered), would cost between $170 and $235 per night, depending on season (excluding x-mas), TAX INCLUDED.
I quoted a 1br because it is a far nicer room than a studio. Others here can give a better pictorial description than I can.

Good Luck.....:cool:

[kdonnel]

Good luck!

It took me two years and another baby to convince her that we should pay now while we can afford it rather then wait and not be able to afford Disney vacations for the 4 of us.

[wdeversole]

On the lighter side -

I'd be always grumpy too if I didn't have DVC vacations to look forward too.

:p :p :p :p :p

Perhaps tell your wife you would change to always happy if you bought DVC. (always sneezy or always dopey probably wouldn't cut it)

[PamOKW]

Give us a little background and maybe we can help make the case....How often do you come to Disney? Where do you usually stay and for how long?

[Always Grumpy]

We normally come down twice a year. We have stayed at Wilderness once and normally stay in one of the moderates. Our length of stay is usally 5-6 days. I have used the price increase pitch but her rebuttle is we can stay at the cheapest. The way i figured is roughly 280 pts is what we would need. Grumpy is one of my favorite characters. Mean on the outside and sweet on the inside.

Thanks

Always Grumpy

[OKWKirt]

Here's how I justified it to myself in 1997. We went to WDW every year in June and stayed in the moderates for 7-9 days. I made a spread sheet showing my initial cost and calculated by adding the maint fees and subtracting what the cost would be to pay cash for a one bedroom to see the break even point which was five years. I then did a comparison using the moderate resort amounts (since that is where we were staying) and came up with an eight year break even. That meant for eight years I could stay in a one bdrm for what I would pay at the moderates and after that point the cost would be just the maint fees. If I kept going I could have shown thousands of dollars in savings.

After I joined I kept a spreadsheet to see when my breakeven point was actually, using rack rates for OKW, and if I hadn't added on in 1999 it would have been after five years. I bought 220 points in 1997 and 100 points in 1999 and this June if I stay 5-7 days I will be at my break even point. So next year through 2042 I can stay for approx 13 days in a one bedroom at OKW for maint fees.

[jimmytammy]

Always Grumpy

Ive been in your shoes with DW myself. It took a lot of proding and poking to get her to agree to sign her name on the dotted line. She was working for an acct. firm at that time so me trying to show her #s was pointless. I couldnt convince her from that standpoint, in fact I didnt know about these boards until 5 mos later, so take all the advice you can get because it is really helpful, someone may give you an approach that will work for you.

That said, my idea is point out the guaranteed vacations for yrs. to come. Go it from the emotional side. If she is a Disney fan, it will help. We just got back from our home resort at VWL and loved our first trip home.

If #s are a real key issue here, use this comparison. This is the way I explain to my DW and she now sees things different(plus she got to use pts. for the first time, that helps too) We will be going home to VWL Dec. 2-9, a full weeks pts. in a 2 bedroom, 270 total pts. used. We only have 220 use yr pts.(wish for more but are able to use for a nice 1 yr trip or 2 shorter trips). We banked 140 that will be used. None of that really matters as this does. Breakdown: This year our monthly payments plus annual dues together equals $250 each mos. That x 12 mos. = $3000. According to Birnbaums WDW official guide, that time of yr., a 2 bedroom at VWL is currently $535 per night x 7 nights= $3745. Imagine the price 10, 20, 30, 40 yrs from now.

Sorry this turned into a long post, but I understand your position with your DW. Good luck!! If you need more help please respond here or send me a PM.

[PamOKW]

If you are going that regularly (must mean you enjoy the vacation) and are staying at the moderates, you are in the ballpark for breaking even. The last two years have seen unusual discounts and this makes the numbers game harder to prove.

I agree that the emotional side needs to go into this as well. I liken it to a car purchase. You can buy a Kia that will get you where you want to go or you can buy a BMW that does the same thing with a bit more fun and style. You can stay at the All-Star and have a good time or you can stay at DVC and luxuriate. Now, if you can stay in luxury for what you are paying for the moderate....that's where DVC starts to shine.

You need to look at it as something that you want and then determine if you can afford it. If you can...go for it. You can go insane playing with all the different number scenarios. One thing that has held true, you can always resell your purchase with little or no loss (at least for the time being). That might make giving it a try a little easier for your wife to handle.

[Dreamfinder2]

There's some wise counsel here with all the number-crunching, and we went through that same process. Ours was an emotional decision, ultimately, thinking in terms of what we could provide our kids and, one day, our grandkids.

While it's definitely a buyers market out there among the moderates, what's that market gonna look like in 10 years or so? We've got a pretty decent hedge against inflation with the DVC, I'd wager. We looked at the DVC as "anyway" money, in other words, money we'd spend on vacations anyway.

Dunno if you'd be interested in eating some meals "in," but that is a significant savings for us.

I'd just say, finally, that our first stay as "homeowners" was what cemented the deal. We're not even remotely sorry.

[OKWKirt]

Another thing to add, most of us have become soooo spoiled we can't stay in a regular hotel rooms thanks to DVC. And I meen that in a positive way. We must have our one and two bedrooms (three for Rich). Everytime I'm sitting in "my" living room at OKW with my feet up on the coffee table (hope you don't mind me doing that) and drink in hand I tell myself it doesn't get any better than this. Without DVC I don't think I would ever pay out $350+ per night for a room but with DVC I think nothing of it.

[Mouse Ears]

I am another that had to convince my DW that DVC was a good choice. I started lurking on this board in 1999 and watched the VWLs open and everyone purchase. My wife was not interested at the time and no logic would change her mind.

We finally joined in the summer of 2002 with plans for a trip in Dec 2003 (can't wait).

The main appeal that I have used is stressing the importance of quality family time and memories. I have also reminded her of the stresses of traveling to new places each time and the comfort of having a vacation spot to call your own. What better spot for a family vacation is available?

We now have 3 kids (5, 4, and 9mo.). I stressed the importance of having room to spread out. The 2-bdrm will be a necessity to us soon. As it is, we avoid traveling if we cannot stay with friends or at least have a suite as my kids are used to having their own space.

We started with 150 points and plan to bank and borrow to achieve a one week WDW vacation every 1 1/2 to 3 years. I still hope for more points, but this is a good start and I think once we make our first trip this way, my wife will see the merits of having a kitchen, laundry, and jacuzzi. If not, then at least we will have years off from Disney to see and do other things.

I also pointed out that in the 3+ years we waited, we could have bought, taken yearly trips on points, and resold on resale market for more than the original cost. Thus, our only expense would have been the maintenance fees. I still consider the strong resale value to be a major benefit to the DVC timeshare program.

Good luck in convincing your wife. Feel free to print out the thread and show her the responses. Maybe seeing everybody's point of view will make her more agreeable. If I can convince my mostly non-Disney wife, you surely have a shot.

Pixie dust!
:earsboy: Mouse Ears

[anniet]

Originally posted by Always Grumpy
We normally come down twice a year. We have stayed at Wilderness once and normally stay in one of the moderates. Our length of stay is usally 5-6 days. I have used the price increase pitch but her rebuttle is we can stay at the cheapest.

AlwaysGrumpy- I used to stay mostly offsite, since we usually went down once a year for ten days to two weeks, and this was pretty much the only way we could afford that length of time AND go every year. DVC has allowed me to upgrade our accomodations in a BIG way, but also in a very economical way.

You can stay at the cheapest, but even those will have price increases over the years and with All Stars the rooms are smaller so you'll be sacrificing space as well.

As mentioned, you at LEAST get a microwave and a fridge in your room if for nothing else to reheat leftovers.

The break even point has been heavily debated on these boards, simply because it will differ depending on what you use as a base. If I used the rate for the accomodations I would previously stay in the break even point doesn't come until about 15 or so years. If I compare it to the cash rate for a DVC room, the break even point is more like 6 or 7, but then I would never be able to STAY in a DVC room for cash AND continue to stay every year for a minumum of 10 days.

DBF and I have always LOVED the Wilderness Lodge, but we never stayed there since it was above our budget, and we figured if we fell in love with it we would be in BIG trouble because nothing else would ever measure up. But we always stopped there for lunch and to walk around and take in the beauty of the place.

Saturday we are flying to Orlando and on Tuesday we will be checking in to VWL for TEN days!!!! It's a dream come true for us! The monthly payments are very affordable- I financed for 10 years but will pay it off in about 4 and then after that I'll just have to pay dues.

Also Orlando is one of the top vacation spots in the WORLD! If you decide not to go one year, you can always rent points on the Rent/Trade Board, or if you decide it's not for you, you could sell through the Timeshare store and you would most likely AT LEAST break even if not make a profit... what have you got to lose?:)

My only regret about buying DVC is that I didn't buy sooner!

[BCVOwner2002]

Grumpy,

We FINALLY joined last June and although I thought I had DH convinced this was a good thing financially for us, I think what sold him was actually seeing the model! We were staying off-site when we toured and DH could not believe all that we would get! He was sold on a 1 BR with our own BR and full kitchen. Have you taken the tour?

I had created a spreadsheet last year but unfortunately my computer crashed and no longer have it ot I would share but I believe our break-even point was approximately 7 yrs.

Good luck in your decision.
Annmarie

[jcodespoti]

Another thing to add, most of us have become soooo spoiled we can't stay in a regular hotel rooms thanks to DVC. And I meen that in a positive way. We must have our one and two bedrooms (three for Rich). Everytime I'm sitting in "my" living room at OKW with my feet up on the coffee table (hope you don't mind me doing that) and drink in hand I tell myself it doesn't get any better than this. Without DVC I don't think I would ever pay out $350+ per night for a room but with DVC I think nothing of it.

AMEN to that!!!

Even though we stay at the "puny, attached to the hotel and not a real DVC resort like OKW- Boardwalk":p :p :p :p . I really enjoy the accomadations. I to have run the numbers when, where, how much, how long we stay etc... Bottom line is when we go with our friends we have a blast..when we as just Hubby and Wife..we have a blast.
There is something about DVC that is special (starting to sound like a infomercial). When My wife and I stayed at VB last February and had a late nite snack at the bar outside w/ a full moon over the ocean...priceless. Could not do it if not for DVC.
Vacationing is an investment in the mind and soul and in my opinion should be viewed as such.


Joe in CT

[Sharper]

She should either take the tour or perhaps rent one of the villas to fully comprehend what she is missing. To me, there is such a huge difference in spending my precious vacation time with my family in a villa than scrunched into a motel room. As others have mentioned, there is no way I could pay cash for the accommodations we are now accustomed to for the next 40 years. Purchasing points and paying what I feel are nominal maintenance fees IS certainly doable with our income.

I only regret what other owners regret -- NOT BUYING SOONER!

[dcfromva]

Hmmm,
I don't know if I can provide you with any powerful arguments. I can say that comparing room costs versus DVC is almost like apples and oranges--that is because you get so much more at DVC. I used to read with interest the comments that everyone was making ref the DVC accomodations, but it didn't truly strike home until we actually stayed at DVC.

Honestly, in my family's situation, we were looking for more room and more privacy (DS is 14). We were to the point of getting two rooms--so when you compare costs and also the fact that even though you may have two rooms, they may not be adjoining/connecting (or anywhere near one another) with no kitchen facilities--DVC looks a whole lot better.

We just bought in Feb 2002--since then, we have had 2BR accomodations at HH, OKW and BCV--DH and DS have been constantly congratulating me on how smart I was to make the purchase.... (and they don't want to go back to regular hotel rooms :) ).

-DC :)

[Cruelladeville]

Grumpy,
I am the DW that needed to be convinced, and we toured the models 3 times before I even grumbled "Maybe". What did it was number crunching, for me, so I could see that it was a better deal than staying at Caribbean Beach, which I thought was So-o-o-o-o luxurious at the time (1997). Well, the price for that resort is now up to $168 per night, and my studio comes out to $70 per night. That includes dues for the entire 40 years, and finance charges for 10 full years. Since the loan was paid for in 3 years, the cost of the studio obviously went down to less than $70 per night, and there are no resort taxes to pay, part of DVC is tax deductible, too. I have up-graded my idea of luxurious, and upgraded the size of my accommodations, too, but I felt at the time that a studio and my hotel room were comparing apples and apples:p I would never go back--DVC is worth every cent, for all the reasons that others have already posted. Good luck!:Pinkbounc

[MinnieGi]

I rented a stay at OKW for us this past fall and that is what convinced DH that DVC was for us!! :) He just loved all that room. After a long morning of fun at the parks he sooooooo enjoyed coming back to our one bedroom villa at OKW.

I really didn't have to do much convincing after staying at a DVC property. We toured the other DVC models and resorts while on vacation to get a feel for them. We decided to buy resale.

Good luck!!
Gi

[disny4ever]

Being a new DVC member and staying at home just once so far has made our decision to buy " The right thing to do ". I don't know when our break even point will be, that was not a factor ( I know, that is a big point for others ). I just know that what I saw in the model the 1st time we toured in '99 was going to become a reality, and this past year it did.
This investment will be there for the next 40 years for my family and for any future grandkids to enjoy. That makes more valuable then any break even point to me.
Hope things work out in your favor and we all get to give you a big " Welcome Home " soon.

[erikthewise]

I know what you mean by "breakeven point", and I have a spreadsheet I can send you that addresses that point. Just email or pm me.

My spreadsheet says you pay off your membership within 10-15 years depending on certain parameters. That's in comparison with discounted deluxe resort expenses or renting points, which are roughly the same cost.

After your first stay, you will know you did the right thing, and the spreadsheet won't matter any more. But you need to get to that point first.

[CaptainMidnight]

My suggestion is to rent points from the Rent/Trade board for your next vacation accomodation at either Wilderness Lodge Villas or Beach Club Villas and let the accomodations do the selling for you. Try it out to see if you like it before you buy.

[Always Grumpy]

Thanks everyone. I will keep you posted.

Always Grumpy

[Dancind]

When you figure your costs for your DW, make sure to incorporate the savings of eating at least one meal per day in the room. And make sure to mention that you would be more than happy to do the cooking! Diana

[Sharper]

Originally posted by erikthewise
My spreadsheet says you pay off your membership within 10-15 years depending on certain parameters. That's in comparison with discounted deluxe resort expenses or renting points, which are roughly the same cost.


Whoa, that will probably scare off his DW! Not trying to be critical, but I feel sure that it won't take us 15 years to break even. Perhaps if you compared it to getting great discounts on rooms (which is not a given) and financing at a high rate of interest (which I can't tolerate), staying mostly weekend or other more expensive DVC nights or whatever, but if I honestly felt it would take 15 years to break even I just don't know that we would have purchased. There are entirely too many factors and variations to try to calculate, and perhaps my situation is different, but I just wanted to note that it is possible to break even before your projected time, hopefully before it got someone upset and they either decided not to buy or began regretting their purchase.

[erikthewise]

If you want to feel good, you can compare joining DVC against paying cash rack rates to stay in the same rooms. Then it only takes 6-7 years to break even, by which I mean you've saved the cost of your initial purchase plus interest, i.e. paid off the loan through savings in room costs.

However I think that's unrealistic. It makes more sense to compare against renting points, or against paying for what you would otherwise pay for accommodations (in our case, discounted deluxe resorts). That does take about 11-12 years in my personal case, at the price we paid and the interest rate we currently have.

Of course there are many ways to do the accounting, some kind of flaky and some no doubt more expert than my own.

[OKWKirt]

Always Grumpy, and all, sorry if this is a little long but I'm pasting below my records. Some may enjoy it. When we take our normal 7-9 day trip in June I will be at a -$435 and if we go in October I will be in the black. That makes it 6 years payoff after my initial purchase and includes the add on in 1999. I didn't include interest my money could have made because it wasn't going towards investing anyway. I see I didn't include the interest on financing through Disney which was $660 for the add on and I'm not sure about the initial purchase because I paid it off in one year and don't have those records with me. So you could say it may have added part of one more year. I used rack rates that I would have paid staying in these wonderful accomodations.

Like I said in a previous reply, before I joined I used two comparisons for payoff. One using rack DVC rates and one using moderate resort rates (where we used to stay). During that process I calculated 5 years payoff using rack DVC ratres and 8 years using moderate rates. As you can see I wasn't far off. Without the add-on purchase I would have met my 5 year calculation. Now look at how many years I will have with only the maintenance fees.

Date Action $+/- Balance
7/97 Purchase 220 pts - 12,500 -12,500
10/97 OKW 4 nights studio +896 -11,604
97 Maint fees - 324 - 11,928

5/98 OKW 10 nights studio +2,530 -9,398
11/98 Big Cedar Lodge +667 -8,731
98 Maint fees -637 -9,368

5/99 OKW 9 nights 2 bdrm +4,320 -5,048
99 Maint fees -687 -5,735
12/99 Purchase 100 pts -6,000 -11,735

4/00 Big Cedar Lodge +1,200 -10,535
6/00 OKW 9 nights 1 bdrm +3,015 -7,520
00 Maint fees -1,004 -8,524
12/00 Wilderness Lodge +685 -7,839

6/01 VB 2 nights Inn room +450 -7,389
6/01 OKW 8 nights 1 bdrm +2,555 -4,834
01 Maint fees -976 -5,810
10/01 OKW 4 nights 2 bdrm +2,100 3,710

02 Maint fees -1,020 4,730
6/02 OKW 3 nights 1 bdrm +1,125 3,605
10/02 OKW 3 nights 2 bdrm +1,635 1,970

[OKWKirt]

I just noticed my records came through without the spacing I had. It is supposed to be four columns: Date, action recorded, a $+ or $-, and the balance. Hope this helps if it looks confusing.