Disney Wonder -- NEVER AGAIN!!!

[toadman]

I recently took my 13-year-old daughter and a friend of hers on the November 28th 3 day cruise on the Disney Wonder. Over all, I would like to say it was a successful vacation since the kids thoroughly enjoyed themselves and the many teen activities kept them occupied for the entire voyage. There were areas that I thought could stand improvement and I intend to mention them to you merely as suggestion; however, after I heard more details about some of the teen activities, I now have serious concerns about the safety of my children aboard the Disney Cruise Lines.

First, during the orientation to the teens at the Common Grounds on the first night of the voyage, the kids were advised not to smoke where the staffers could see them but rather to find someplace where they would not get caught. They should have been informed that smoking was strictly forbidden by minors anywhere on ship and that anyone caught smoking would be reported to their parents; instead, they were told to find places where they would not get caught.

Second, the staff played a game one night that was something like the old Dating Game where groups of boys and girls were asked questions by the staff. When the game started, the staff told the kids that the question “What is you favorite Disney Character and why” was a signal that an adult had entered the room and that they participants should be on guard. Tell me why such a signal was necessary? What should be taking place that the kid’s have to be warned about a parent’s presence?

The answer to that last question is that approximately one third of the questions asked of the participants were sexual in nature. The panel of girls were asked this: “if you could be a thong, a pair of briefs, or a pair of boxers, on which of your favorites stars would you like to be and why?” One girl replied “she would like to be a pair of briefs on Brad Pitt.” Asked why and she responded so she could be even tighter against him (in the area of his genitals, clearly).

The boys were asked for their most embarrassing moment on a date. One boy replied that he could not answer because they would think it was too nasty. At this point, when the staffers should have dropped the issue or moved on to another contestant, they choose instead to push him to provide his answer. Which was: “once, in a theatre, I was sitting on the back row and my girl friend was doing the chicken on me - i.e., oral sex - and when I finished, I missed and made a mess.

I am incredulous that these questions were asked in front my 13-year-old daughter and even more so that the staff did not have the common sense to avoid potentially inappropriate responses. I asked both of my girls and they said that at least one fourth to one third of the questions were sexual in nature. I find this utterly unacceptable on a Disney cruise.

I choose Disney precisely because I trusted your staff to ensure proper behavior and proper interaction between the boys and girls. I expected your staff to prevent such inappropriate behavior and to make sure that teens didn’t smoke or attempt to roam the ship when their last activities where over for the evening.

Yet one night, following a dance that lasted until 2am, my daughter and friend returned to the stateroom at 2:30. How can that be possible? Why are there no staffers roaming they ship to prevent such behavior? My daughter said kids were finding hiding places to smoke or to make out all over the ship. I repeat, where was the staff?

Clearly, your present teen counseling staff does not understand their job. Their job is to ensure that the kids have fun in a safe and appropriate environment. Their job is to make sure the kids are back in their state rooms immediately following the last events.

To this end, I submit the following suggestions.

Schedule no teen events to end past midnight. 2am is far, far too late for families to remain up waiting for the return arrival of young teens. And it certainly makes it difficult to wake them at 8 in the morning to begin their day. When the last event is over, have the teen staffers roam the decks for perhaps half an hour to make sure that the kids have indeed returned to their rooms. As an alternative, only allow the 16-18 year olds to attend the midnight to 2am events.
Place a camera with audio in the Common Ground that is viewable either on a screen outside the Common Ground or on the ship’s television network. You already do this with the basketball court so the technology is currently available to you on the ship. Virtually all of the under 21 clubs that my daughter frequents have similar monitoring either on site in a parent’s room or via the web.
Find out who the staff was on the night of the game show on our cruise and dismiss them for asking sexually suggestive questions in front of young 13 year olds.


Finally, to my more general remarks, as a single parent, I was bored silly on this cruise. It seems that virtually every adult activity assumed that all adults love to dance the night away. Being single, that wasn’t even a possibility. Further, there were virtually no events that families comprised of teens and adults could enjoy together. I found that the only activity on the Wonder that a single parent could indulge in was sitting at a bar alone.

Over all, it was a very disappointing and expensive experience. The utter lack of adequate supervision for the teen crowd was simply incredulous. The facts that teens were allowed to prowl the ship after hours was appalling. I would never again take a Disney cruise and I would certainly NOT trust anyone associated with Disney to supervise my children in the future.

[Jobro2]

That sounds horrible! I can't imagine such things going on!! How inexcusable of Disney! Has anyone else had these things occur? How about on the Magic?? We are going on our second cruise in June 2003 and my son will be 13 this time and be going to Common Grounds...if this type of thing regularly happens on all the cruises, we will not permit him to attend... Did you mention any of these things to the staff while on your cruise?? Were any actions taken or any "excuses" (not that any would be acceptable!) given? I feel awful your daughter had to be exposed to these things and hope this is not the regular practice of the cruise line!!

[Lisa F]

Wow... I've read that younger teens would feel uncomfortable in the kids clubs but I always assumed that it was comprised mostly of older teens... not because the activities were full of sexual innuendo. I'm just floored about that. Anyone else who have teens who have done the teen activities care to comment? Regardless of the adult nature of the conent of the games, it sure seems like it might be a good idea for Disney to have separate activities for younger teens to go, maybe the 13-15 year old set. It seems to me that the mere 4 year difference between a 13 year old and a 17 year old is HUGE at that age.

As far as Disney's supervision of teens, that's often a debate around here. My personal feelings on the subject is that parents either trust their kids, don't trust their kids, or don't care. In any of those cases, it's up to the parents to police their own kids. If you don't want them out that late, set a curfew. Just because an activity runs til 2am doesn't mean your child has to attend it. I think in the case of the teens, the staff is there to help entertain them, not to police them. I do think that advice on how to misbehave and not get caught is over the top and unacceptable.

I'm sorry you didn't find any of the activities that don't require you to dance the night away. My husband and I HATE dancing but always found plenty to do. The shows were a lot of fun, and we always caught at least one of the shows in barrel of laughs. We also enjoyed sitting in the cadillac lounge and listening either to the live music or the music headsets there. In fact, we choose to cruise on Disney because we are not typical "drink/smoke/gamble/dance the night away" type people and really enjoy the activities on board for those of us who are old fogies before our time. :)

I did think that Disney had "singles mixers" to help single people on the ship find some friends. Did they not have this on the 3 day Wonder? If they did have it, did you attend it and find it to be a flop?

Lisa

[mmouse37]

You should definately write a letter to DCL outlining your concerns. I agree that the counselors acted inappropriately. One thing I feel though is that it is not the CM's responsiblilty to walk children back to their cabin. Definitately not making excuses, but you will find teens roaming around on any cruiseline late at night, not just DCL.

I think your suggestion to have older teens only be able to attend the later night activities a good one. As far as family/teen activity together...I guess is all is a matter of personal opinion. We have been on 6 DCL cruises and always had family time together at the games shows (which we enjoy) and separate time, which we also enjoy.

We have three teens that have been in the teen program 6 times. I have never heard them comment about this, but then again I never specifically asked them if this kind of talk went on. They usually meet other teens, and hang by the pool and then attend certain activities.

Thank you for posting.

MJ

[westjones]

Oh MY! I have wondered what things would be like when the kids hit the teenage group! Now I know I don't want them in it! Already I have concerns about my kids moving to the 10-12 year old group next year. Thanks for posting this. I think if we take our kids on the cruise when they are older it will be do to 'family' things together and not for them to join in with the teen group activities. I really appreciate you sharing this information.
Debra

[Dadtojbj]

Wow, that sounds very uncharacteristic of Disney. What did Guest Relations say when you told them of your daughter's experience?

I'm sorry to hear that you had a negative cruise experience on Disney.

[SC Minnie]

Thanks for posting. Not having a teen I have no idea what goes on in Common Grounds but I expected the activities to be more 'wholesome'.

Although it has been said that Disney reads this board I beleive your comments and children's observations need to be sent directly to DCL management.

Does anyone have to address?

[Goin2CtheMouse]

I hear what you are saying. We too will be sailing on the same cruise and I have two seventeen year olds. They plan on spending some time in Common Grounds but not a lot; but, I too feel the direction of that some of the games were headed is very inappropriate in that mix of an age group and especially if they were "sanctioned " by Disney CM's leading the game/discussion or further questioning some of the kids to further explain whatever comments they made.

I encourage kids to talk about their feeling and concerns and have a safe place to do it; but, the Disney Cruise Line is not the time or place - that belongs in the home with proper supervision where correct and factual responses can be made and explained. Unfortunately not all kids are allowed or afforded this opportunity, but I feel it is not Disney's place to step in and provide such a "service" especially when the CM's in the Common Grounds area are probably not professionally trained to mentor or conduct such a discussion much less deal with any consequences that may arise from embarrassed teens that had no idea what they were getting into when originally joining in on the games

That's my 2 cents worth...

[westjones]

You know, my kids didn't have the 'greatest' experience with the other kids on our last cruise. I thought that was probably due to the fact that we were on a 7 day cruise and the kids became more restless (undisciplined/bored) than they would on a 3 day cruise. But at least the CM's in charged seemed to be doing a good job. I am nervous about my kids moving up to the 10-12 year old group next year, and after this post I don't ever want them in the teen group!

Has anyone else had a teen participate in the ship's activities? Would your teens tell you if this is typical? if they had similar experiences? This is just terrible! And I am worried because I recommended the cruise to friends who have a daughter who will be 13! Now I wish I had never said anything to them! This family would NOT be comfortable with this type of experience for their daughter.

I would really like to know what other teens have experienced in the program on board.
Debra

[toadman]

Wow... It seems to me that the mere 4 year difference between a 13 year old and a 17 year old is HUGE at that age.



It wouldn't be an issue if the content were supervised. But this content and the signals to warn of approaching adults PROVES that the counselors intended or expected the content to be unacceptable and inappropriate.



I think in the case of the teens, the staff is there to help entertain them, not to police them.



When I send my child to a Disney supervised event, they are IN THEIR HANDS and their safe return is THEIR responsibiity. If they know -- based on their own advice about the best places to avoid being seen -- that kids are out on the decks, it would not hurt to have the teen counselors patrol the upper decks for a mere half hour following the last teen function.



I do think that advice on how to misbehave and not get caught is over the top and unacceptable.



I would agree. Just as I believe the "signals" were unacceptable. I think a camera in the Common Ground that can be watched on the ship tv network (as they already do for the basketball court) would help to eliminate these problems.



I'm sorry you didn't find any of the activities that don't require you to dance the night away. My husband and I HATE dancing but always found plenty to do. The shows were a lot of fun, and we always caught at least one of the shows in barrel of laughs. We also enjoyed sitting in the cadillac lounge and listening either to the live music or the music headsets there.



Magic phrase there - "My husband and I" - I was alone.



I did think that Disney had "singles mixers" to help single people on the ship find some friends. Did they not have this on the 3 day Wonder? If they did have it, did you attend it and find it to be a flop?



Yes, it was a flop. And only on the first night. It would have been great if they had something fun for singles that wasn't dance oriented every night.

[toadman]

Originally posted by westjones
Has anyone else had a teen participate in the ship's activities? Would your teens tell you if this is typical? if they had similar experiences? This is just terrible! And I am worried because I recommended the cruise to friends who have a daughter who will be 13! Now I wish I had never said anything to them! This family would NOT be comfortable with this type of experience for their daughter.

I would really like to know what other teens have experienced in the program on board.
Debra

This was actually our second cruise! I think the only reason I found out about what really goes on inside the Common Grounds this time is that my daughter took a friend with her this time and on the drive back from the airport, they were in the back seat laughing and talking about these things. There were other things too such as boys offering them cigarettes, discovering other kids making out on the decks at late hours, etc.

I'm sure the first cruise was similar but I just wasn't told about it.

[toadman]

Originally posted by Dadtojbj
Wow, that sounds very uncharacteristic of Disney. What did Guest Relations say when you told them of your daughter's experience?

I'm sorry to hear that you had a negative cruise experience on Disney.

So far, I have been unable to find an adress or name of any responsible individual to whom I could voice my complaints.

[tlgoblue]

Dear Toadman,

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).
Sorry about your trip. It does give one somethings to consider for cruising, as well as simply staying in touch with our children, and what is actually going on with them. My DS will "be almost 13" when we sail in January, and was hoping to be able to join the teen group. HA! DD was hoping to jump to the 12 yr old group. Double HA! We have been on several cruises, and Disney, far and away, has superior programming. We will be taking a cruise hiatus after our children turn 13, and focus on more vacations where children aren't simply turned over to some program so we may not feel guilty about ENJOYING ourselves. There are plenty of ways to enjoy time with your teens, though they may protest. Thanks for the heads up on this issue.

tlgoblue

[wovenwonder]

Originally posted by toadman
So far, I have been unable to find an adress or name of any responsible individual to whom I could voice my complaints.

check out Barb/Tony's website -- they have an email address for DCL listed. That is where I would start.
www.*****************


With that said -- We have been on DCL 3 times with teens and I've never encountered any of your experiences. I did not allow my kids free roam of the ship. They were also given times to check in with me on a regular basis as well as a curfew. They checked in to let me know where they would be at any given time -- and yes , I did casually check up on them. It was nice have organized activities provided by Disney for my teens but I still felt it was my responsibility to be in the background supervising them. I am not stating this to say that I think you did anything wrong -- what you encountered is horrible and no excuses can be made for it. I just wanted to state that I had not experienced any of these things --- and I really feel that DCL should be notified about it ASAP.

[psimon]

My DD13 was on the 11/2 Magic. I didn't hear anything like that from my daughter.

I do know that they played some sort of 'game' that lasted for 12 hours. It was supposed to start at noon, but got started late. Hence, it went from 1:30PM to 1:30 AM. To our good fortune (not my daughter's :D ), she was knocked out of the game in the first hour, so she had no urgent interest in how it turned out. I think she stopped back in to the club once in the evening to see how it was going but that was it. The game was to 'kill' off of the rest of the players. You either had to poison them (writing poison on tape and sticking it to their cup) or stabbing them with a napkin. Bizarre but tolerable.

If I had heard of your experiences she never would have gone back. I'll have to ask her about some of the other activities. All in all, she spent far less time in the club than I expected. I guess that was a good thing! :)

[kasar]

We will be taking a cruise hiatus after our children turn 13, and focus on more vacations where children aren't simply turned over to some program so we may not feel guilty about ENJOYING ourselves. There are plenty of ways to enjoy time with your teens, though they may protest.

tlgoblue: Big Thanks! I have always maintained my position (yes, even on vacation) that the rules don't change with the circumstances. Ultimately, WE are in charge of our kids, nobody else. Young teens still need lots of supervision!

Not just on this board, but lately I've noticed how everyone seems to want to bring their children on vacation with them and then proceed to find every way imaginable to send them off. Personally, we go on vacation to be together as a family. If my husband and I wanted a "child free" vacation, we would make appropriate arrangements for them to stay home. Besides, we have a ball with our kids - I would hate to miss out on those memories. Just one family's opinion......

[aaronamy]

Wow! Im really disapointed that DCL would encourage this behavior. Im sure that the teens really look up to the CM since most of them are in there 20s. Teens still need and want boundries. Why encourage behavior that is not healthy, especially when you have such a wide age group. I am aware that some teens smoke and are sexually active, but as adults we should not be encouraging it. They should be shown how to have fun without those things. I do not have teens but have hosted 7 exchange students. We always gave them rules and for the most part they followed them. When we had parties they were kept so busy they really did not have time to get into trouble. DCL needs to impress upon these CMs that they are looked up to and should set high standards for themselves and the teens. We have friends going with a 13 year old and she would be very uncomfortable in this setting. If my kids were that age I'd be monitoring it very close.

[Gillian]

I have no idea how up to date this is, but, from the Rumors & news board:

DCL / president is Matt Ouimet

address is
DCL Guest Communications
PO Box 10238
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830

email - dcl.guest.communications@disney.com

[einswine]

If I'm not mistaken, the 10+ year olds are automatically allowed to sign themselves in and out of the programs meaning parents have no idea where they might be at any given time. I think the staff needs to rethink their policies. My child was in the 8-9 program and I didn't get any negative feedback but I will have to be cautious about future cruises.

[MelissaE1]

Wow,

That whole scenario is pretty frightening. I also would have expected something more wholesome from Disney for the 13 year old set. I agree that there is a big difference between a 13 yo and a 17 yo and perhaps the teens should be segregated into two groups.

I also agree that children are ultimately the parents' responsibility, but people choose a Disney Cruise often because they do have such wonderful (and ostensibly safe) kids' programs. I am not worried about the 8-9 group that my DS8 will be in this time, but if those issues are common in the teen group we'll choose a different vacation in 5 years!

I definitely would bring this issue to Disney... I can't imagine that they would condone such behavior.

[Michelle]

I have known many teens in the programming and none of them has EVER described a similar experience in the programming, and I know I would have been told if something like this occured.

The correct e-mail address is dcl.guest.communications@disneycruise.com . It has been changed. If you were unhappy during the cruise I hope you spoke to the staff then.

[SweetSpot]

einswine:

You are given the option of allowing your children to sign themselves out in the 10-12 club. If you choose to allow your child to sign out you can have it set up that they will beep you and let you know that your child signed out and where they are heading. If you choose to not allow them to sign themselves out then they will beep you and they will not allow your child to leave under any circumstances without you signing them out and giving them the password. They are extremely strict with these rules and I found the clubs to be very secure. Even on the last night of the cruise, after they all knew me very well, they still required my password before I took my sons out.

I am also disappointed to hear about the conduct in Common Grounds and I am sure that it is the individual CM's who act in this manner on their own without Disney's knowledge. I'm sure if this behavior was brought to their attention it would be stopped immediately. DCL is a family place and they work hard to maintain that. Unfortunately, not all CM's are created equally and DCL needs to know which ones they need to weed out.

You are given the option of taking your children down a club if you don't feel secure in having your 13 year old in Common Grounds. We will be doing this next year because we don't think our son is mature enough to be surrounded by older teens.

kasar:

We used the clubs a great deal because our children had such a wonderful time participating in all the activities. We never dumped them in the clubs. We gave them choices of what they wanted to do because it was their vacation too. Because of the clubs we were able to enjoy one on time with a child (we have 3), family time or enjoy time alone as a couple. I know some people are fortunate enough to have family or babysitters available to them to enjoy this time but we don't. A vacation without our children is impossible and will not happen until they are out of the house. It was amazing to enjoy a night out with my husband while feeling no guilt because they were having a wonderful time too. Apparently, they felt the same because they chose overwelmingly to take another cruise next year. We spent a great deal of family time on our vacation and luckily were also able to enjoy couple time as well. I see no problem in that.

[CRB#33]

If I knew that my teen was done her activity at 2:00 and she had not shown up by 2:15, I would be the one out looking for her, just like if she were out at home. My children have curfews on vacation and at home. It's up to me to enforce them. It is not up to Disney to tuck our teenage child into bed at night.

When we were on our cruise, I looked over all of the activities and discussed which ones my children would take place in. Hopefully, I will be able to trust my children to take part in the activities that we decide together on. Thank you for the information that I needed for the next cruise.

The things that occured during this Dating Game activity were entirely inappropriate for ANY AGED TEEN, not just 13 year old girls. I would have been offended by some of these things as a grown adult.

As far as the CM's behavior, I am unbelievably disappointed and angry. These are children. Disney must do a better job of policing their employees and making them understand what is acceptable and what isn't and then enforce it.

You really must inform Disney. This, IMO, is a very serious situation. It's just plain wrong.

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).


Unfortunately the DIS message boards, even though moderated, have become much more lax in what they consider appropriate for a family site. I'm sure this thread has been read and the moderators find everything acceptable. If you have a problem, you should notify a moderator. Good luck.

[Mike Bartenhagen]

I have a suggestion. If you want your kids in by 12:00 tell them to be in by 12:00. Wouldn't this make more sence then suggesting Disney change their times based on your prefrences? If you don't want your kids roaming the ship tell your kids that they need to be home after the activity they attended. You could also meet them after the activity to make sure they get to the room. If you think your child is to young to attend the activities from 12:00 to 2:00 tell your child this not Disney. I am 100% certain that there are no required activities in the teen club and I will agree that if some of the activities happened as described they were inappropriate but as parents we are responsible for our children not Disney.

[Jobro2]

I just e-mailed DCL to express my concerns about what is going on in Common Grounds and that we are also uncomfortable with the age grouping with the teens. In my opinion, it would make much more sense to group the 13-14 year olds together and then put the older teens in a separate group. They do it with the 8-9 year olds and the 10-12 year olds, why can't they do it with the older children. There is a huge difference in maturity levels in a 13 year old and a 17 year old. Much more so in my opinion, that that of a 9 and 12 year old! I am concerned for my cruise in June 2003 ...my son will turn 13 in May and we cruise the next month. He is excited to be able to attend Common Grounds, but honestly I am not sure if my DH and myself will permit this or have him "step down" a club level to the 10-12 year olds. (My son will be most unhappy with us!)...Please parents, if you also feel concern in this matter I encourage you also to e-mail DCL and voice your opinions. Thanks so much!!

[MelissaE1]

Originally posted by kasar
Not just on this board, but lately I've noticed how everyone seems to want to bring their children on vacation with them and then proceed to find every way imaginable to send them off. Personally, we go on vacation to be together as a family. If my husband and I wanted a "child free" vacation, we would make appropriate arrangements for them to stay home. Besides, we have a ball with our kids - I would hate to miss out on those memories. Just one family's opinion......

Hi Kasar,

I am one of those parents who is looking forward to my kids spending some time in the clubs. My DH and I were originally going to cruise alone for our 10th anniversary, but found we didn't want to leave our kids (8 and 4) for nine days. We chose Disney as an alternative... we can still spend "our" time together but our kids will be nearby and entertained. We live far from most of our relatives and don't leave our kids with a babysitter. We are very involved with our kids... soccer coach and team mom, scout leader, regular school volunteers. We take them on a totally kid-driven vacation to WDW every year, which we really enjoy. Of course we will enjoy spending family time on our cruise, but I am hoping they like the clubs (a lot! lol) so DH and I can have some time together. Part of the reason we chose Disney is so our kids can have as much fun as us on their own... definitely better than 9 days with a relative while mom and dad vacation alone (at least I hope so!)

Not all of us are heartless slouches! (grin).

[tecdavidt]

As a parent who has raised three teens, now ages 22, 19 and soon to be 19, I can tell all out there, your children won't be doing anything on the ship that they are not already doing at home. You may be shocked when you find out on a cruise ship but this is a true statement. Your teenager may be shocked at other teens when they see what some teens do when away from their parents. My advice, keep the line of communication open. Talk with your teen about what your teen does when you are not around. As the new anti drug slogan states, "parents the anti-drug". This is true.

Do I agree with the original post that this is not acceptable behavior in Common Grounds, yes. DCL is not a babysitting service for the teens and I don't expect that. I do expect DCL cast members not to promote lieing to parents. Sexual discussions do not need to be directed by CM's. I know DCL reads this board, I hope you are paying attention to this thread and address this issue with the Common Grounds CM's. Kathy

[peagreenid]

BUT...... On the 11/9/02 cruise, My husband and I were amazed at how many pre-teens we saw running loose. There were several times that we finished up at Rocking Bar D very late. We would go up to the pool deck for Coffee and were surprised to see a group of under 12 kids running around and being pretty obnoxious. My teens were even discussing how many under 12 year age kids they saw running around unsupervised after midnight. And riding the elevators up and down was a big hit.....STILL!

smiles Patty

[ennazus]

I am agast at most of what you have to say... but I have one question:

Yet one night, following a dance that lasted until 2am, my daughter and friend returned to the stateroom at 2:30. How can that be possible?
Only you should be able to answer the question "how is that possible?" Are you not the ultimate authority in your daughter's life?? Didn't you go out to look for her ... say at midnight? 12:30? 1:00 AM????

This is what happens when you deligate your parental duties to someone else.

Their job is to make sure the kids are back in their state rooms immediately following the last events. ummm I don't think this is their job. They are counselors, not escort services.

Just because Disney OFFERED events that lasted until 2:00 AM does not mean that one has to STAY until 2:00 AM!!!! My 8 year old son's club was open until midnight, but it would have been only over my dead body that he was still there at midnight!

Now it seems as if I am only pointing the finger at you... and I am because again, you are the ultimate authority over your daughter.

Might you have had a better time if you had spent some time with your daughter?

ok... I had more than one question. oops!

the 10+ year olds are automatically allowed to sign themselves in and out of the programs meaning parents have no idea where they might be at any given time.
I think parents need to rethink their responsibilties. A parent could tell their child to page them or call the stateroom to notify the parent where the child is going. Or heck... a parent could EVEN go pick up the youth, themselves. *gasp*

*+*+Suzanne, who has just finished reading the Nanny Diaries. You'll either laugh yourself silly or be shocked at how Nanny could be doing such a "horrible" job! I laughed myself silly, but suspect you may be shocked.*+*+*

[DawnL]

We kept our DD who had just turned 13 down in the younger group this July and we were vary glad we did. From what we saw of the groups of teens they were way above what our DD and us as parents would have been comfortable with. I really think Disney needs to break the ages of this group down into 2 smaller groups. There is a very large gap between the maturity of 13 and 17 year olds.

[toadman]

Originally posted by psimon
My DD13 was on the 11/2 Magic. I didn't hear anything like that from my daughter.


If I had heard of your experiences she never would have gone back. I'll have to ask her about some of the other activities. All in all, she spent far less time in the club than I expected. I guess that was a good thing! :)


The fact that you didn't hear about it does not mean that it did not happen. I just took my dd to the orthodontist and i asked her about the first cruise and how it comnpared to the recent one. She said the very same rules appplied, the same instructions were given and the same signal was used to warn of approaching adults. I suspect I would never have found this out at all had she not been gabbing with her friend about all the "fun" they had on the recent cruise. Therefore, I assume this is customary behavior by the teen counselors.

[toadman]

Originally posted by CRB#33
If I knew that my teen was done her activity at 2:00 and she had not shown up by 2:15, I would be the one out looking for her, just like if she were out at home. My children have curfews on vacation and at home. It's up to me to enforce them. It is not up to Disney to tuck our teenage child into bed at night.



I did do that. I toured the 9th and 10th decks but did not see them. I returned to the stateroom twice between my tours. They were arriving at the stateroom the same time as I was at 2:30. But it's a large ship and the kids could have been anywhere. That's why i suggest that the counselors or staff roam the open decks for a short period following the last event. It's nearly impossible to find a "missing" child onboard ship and the staff knows the "hiding" places that kids frequent far better than I or any other parent would.

[toadman]

Originally posted by kasar
tlgoblue: Big Thanks! I have always maintained my position (yes, even on vacation) that the rules don't change with the circumstances. Ultimately, WE are in charge of our kids, nobody else. Young teens still need lots of supervision!


I couldn't agree with you more. And supervision is what I expected when i handed my kids over to the Disney staffers.

[toadman]

Originally posted by tlgoblue
Dear Toadman,

You have outlined (in graphic detail), many of the concerns I've heard about young teens in the program. You have also outlined may good suggestions. I WONDER if you know that this board is frequented by young teens? Your descriptive comments could be just as out of place on this board as in the Teen club. In the future, maybe you could be a bit more general. We adults could PM and ask you for the sordid details without you seeming like a guy who enjoys shock value (though I'm sure you intended to have your complaint taken seriously), or even talking dirty (which was my initail impression).


Sorry, I didn't even think of that. I was thinking this was a forum for parents considering a Disney cruise or posting their experiences. It was not my intent to offend but to educate.

[psimon]

Originally posted by toadman
The fact that you didn't hear about it does not mean that it did not happen. I just took my dd to the orthodontist and i asked her about the first cruise and how it comnpared to the recent one. She said the very same rules appplied, the same instructions were given and the same signal was used to warn of approaching adults. I suspect I would never have found this out at all had she not been gabbing with her friend about all the "fun" they had on the recent cruise. Therefore, I assume this is customary behavior by the teen counselors.

I gotta tell you.... my DD13 spent far less time in the "club" than I expected. She spent most of the trip with us. She basically said she wasn't interested in what was going on there... and that it wasn't for her (which we were just as happy with). She spent maybe a total of 5 hours in the club for the whole week. Most of that was when we came back from the islands in the early afternoon and there wasn't much to do on ship. Even when she was there, other than the game I mentioned in my previous post, she said there never was a big crowd doing anything organized there. She spent a couple of hours there watching a movie with two or three others. Sounds kind of tame to me. That isn't to imply your experiences didn't happen.... just hers were different.

... and yes, I did ask about what was going on in the club, and her usual comment was it was boring and that's why she didn't stay!

Maybe the Wonder is a little different the Magic. Maybe the counselors feel they need to "spice it up" on the short cruise. Can't say for sure. That's not an excuse, just a hypothesis.

[quidam]

Very well said ennazus!

Parents certainly don't have to (and shouldn't!) delegate their parental duties to someone else, not even to Disney's crew members!

[ducklite]

Since when is it the counselors job to supervise the teens after they leave common grounds or to keep them from smoking on the ship? Have you heard about PARENTAL responsibility?? There is no smoking in Common Grounds, but there are no rules that prohibit smoking by minors in the smoking acceptable areas on board. It isn't the job of the counselors to "rat out" smokers, for all they know the parents know that their kid smokes and either condone it or feel that there are bigger battles to fight. As far as the smoking goes, it's none of your business, so butt out. (No pun intended)

Personally had my child been 13, I wouldn't have let them stay out until 2:00am regardless! I do agree, they should have a seperate group for 13 and 14 year olds, most 13 year olds are not mature as, nor do they share the same interests as a 16 or 17 year old. And a lot of 13 year olds are not mature enough to handle themselves appropriately in a minimally supervised setting, sounds like your daughter might have been one of those based on the fact that she couldnt' obey curfew.

We were on the Magic last summer, when my son was 16. I set my alarm each night when I went to bed before him so I knew that he was back in the cabin by curfew, which varied from night to night based on scheduled activities and shore excursions. I took an active role in parental responsibility. If you think 2:00am is too late for your child, give them a curfew. Don't impose your values on all the other teens on board.

You didn't "hand your kids over" as they can come and go as they please in and out of CG. If they wre uncomfortable, they should have left and told you so immediately so you address your concerns. It sounds to me like first off, your child probably knows a lot of things and is doing a lot of things that you aren't aware of. If they were concerned or offended, they would have said something to you, rather than your finding out by eavesdropping on their conversation. If this isn't the case, then perhaps your child should have been stepped down to the 10-12 year old group which might have been more to their maturity level. Just because a child reaches 13, doesn't mean they have the maturity level of a "teen".

Now, IF what your are describing did actually happen, then yes, it was inappropriate. However I wonder how much of it was quite embellished on...

Anne

[4nana]

As a DGP I appreciate and thank you for giving us the heads up
on the club activities in question. I have expressed concerns here before concerning maturity level of 13- 17 yo in same club.
I must say I am shocked and saddened by what I have read. I would be a fool to think things of this nature do not go on to some extent w/friends, in school, some homes, parties, etc. But on a Disney cruise where we have entrusted our youth to Disney CM's, who should be setting an example, is unbelievable and not acceptable to me. I am forwarding this thread to:
dcl.guest.communications@disneycruise.com.
I will be interested in their comments.

[toadman]

Originally posted by quidam
Very well said ennazus!

Parents certainly don't have to (and shouldn't!) delegate their parental duties to someone else, not even to Disney's crew members!

However, we are not present in the Common Grounds when these events are ocurring. Just as i was not present when I sent her on the party boat trip in port. When I, the parent, canot be present, the Disney staff *is* the responsible adult.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by toadman
However, we are not present in the Common Grounds when these events are ocurring. Just as i was not present when I sent her on the party boat trip in port. When I, the parent, canot be present, the Disney staff *is* the responsible adult.

And if your child isn't mature enough to leave that situation when she obviously should have known you wouldn't approve, she is too immature to have been there to begin with.

Anne

[tlgoblue]

Hey toadman

I certainly took no offense and was truely thankful for the heads up. From one Board Newbie to another, I simply wanted you to consider who may be on board. When I began my initial reply, there was only one other. By the time I had posted, I couldn't believe the number of respondents with similar experiences. I really think that these behaviors occur more often than we are comfortable with, and we seem pretty lucky that, for the most part, our kids all seem to fare pretty well.
Please let me also clarify that I, in no way, mean to suggest that you or anyone else simply dumps their kids off. (I think you are taking quite a thrashing over all this.) I am very thankful for DCL for giving me and DH a few precious moments to ourselves, while the kids feel a bit of independence. However, shorter leashes will be in order for the 13 and up group, especially after reading this. I hope DCL modifies their Teen Club. 13-15 and maybe Young Adult 16-18. (some kind of positive spin)
My DH and I have been reading this thread with great interest and are greatful for the discussion it has inspired. Kids really are a hot topic. OOOOOH my! What a discussion the ride home with DD must have been!


Smiles to all
tlgoblue

:Pinkbounc :) :Pinkbounc :) :Pinkbounc :) :Pinkbounc :) :Pinkbounc :) :Pinkbounc

[taswira]

I agree that there can be a wide gap in the maturity levels of 13-17 year olds. It <I>would</I> be better to have some separation there . . . although I have also seen older <I>immature</I> teens and younger <I>more mature</I> ones. It's a very individual thing.

When I first read the remarks the CM allegedly made regarding smoking and an adult entering the room, I thought the CM probably said it <I>jokingly</I>, as that sounds like some of the "humor" I've heard on the Wonder. IF those comments were made <I>seriously</I>, that CM should not be working for DCL.

I know that teens often embellish or even totally make up stories just to see the reaction. I am NOT saying that was the case this time, but it IS a possibility. I find it <I>very</I> hard to believe <I>all</I> of that happened on a Disney cruise. I feel confident that DCL would NOT condone such activities. I also feel that if toadman is the <I>only</I> person (with the kids) who personally experienced this, then he/they should be the one to report this to DCL. I do not believe we should complain to DCL about something WE did not experience, based on heresay.

toadman - please DO report this in complete detail to DCL and let them track down the source of the problem and deal with it appropriately. I am very sorry that this happened.

[Target]

What an interesting thread! Needless to say, the game show and the CMs involved should be reported to Disney. Like Melissa, my husband and I were going to cruise for our 20th anniversary. Unfortunately, we don't have accomodations for our 2 children for a week. We also decided on cruising Disney so we could make it a family affair. Our DD6 will enjoy the club because she is a social butterfly and has already hooked up by email with a child so she will have an instant friend upon arrival. Our DD14, soon to be 15, is alot more shy. She, too, has hooked up by email with a boy her age. She is a huge tomboy and 80% of her friends are boys. (similar to her mom). I have raised both of my kids to say no to drugs, cigarettes, alcohol and sex (ok, the 6 year old hasn't heard the sex talk yet). My point is, we are very involved with our children and have learned to trust them (with our involvement). I have discussed the whole drug/alcohol/sex issue with my teen just the other day (in regards to the cruise). I also discussed Ecstacy in particular. We have set a curfew of midnight for the cruise, but most importantly, we have set up a code. She will have a walkie talkie and, if found in an uncomfortable situation, she can press the button that sounds like a "page." It will signal us to call her on the walkie talkie to join us at our location. That way, it appears that we are calling her to join us. It gives her an "out" if needed. We will also have check in times so we are aware of where she is and what she is doing. This doesn't change from any other time....we sail on December 14th. I will write upon our return and let you know what our experiences were.....happy crusing!:D

[toadman]

Originally posted by taswira

When I first read the remarks the CM allegedly made regarding smoking and an adult entering the room, I thought the CM probably said it <I>jokingly</I>, as that sounds like some of the "humor" I've heard on the Wonder. IF those comments were made <I>seriously</I>, that CM should not be working for DCL.


I would have thought that possible too had I not had a discussion with her this morning on the way to the orthodontist in which she said the very same things happened during our last cruise.


I know that teens often embellish or even totally make up stories just to see the reaction. I am NOT saying that was the case this time, but it IS a possibility. I find it <I>very</I> hard to believe <I>all</I> of that happened on a Disney cruise.


Again, also a posibility except that it was verified by two different kids who saw virtually nothing wrong with any of it. In fact, my own DD was very disppointed that I planned to report the incidents because the cruise wouldn't be as much "fun" in the future if they changed the rules.

Secondly, the other girl who was with us is one I trust implicitly to neither lie nor embelish. Furthermore, I also believe every word of it because the backseat conversation wasn't intended for my ears but as a rehash of all of the fun of the trip. Just the two of them talking and excited, they had no idea how shocked I was as I sat and listened.

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Target
We have set a curfew of midnight for the cruise, but most importantly, we have set up a code. She will have a walkie talkie and, if found in an uncomfortable situation, she can press the button that sounds like a "page." It will signal us to call her on the walkie talkie to join us at our location. That way, it appears that we are calling her to join us. It gives her an "out" if needed. We will also have check in times so we are aware of where she is and what she is doing. This doesn't change from any other time....we sail on December 14th. I will write upon our return and let you know what our experiences were.....happy crusing!:D

Have a great time--just keep in mind that previous cruisers have had varying degrees of success using the walkie talkies on board, and there have been times that there has not been a signal. That is a good idea though--it allows her to save face with her new friends.

Anne

[taswira]

toadman - Have you considered the <I>possibility</I> that they did not want you to report it because MAYBE it was not true? I am not saying it isn't, just looking at the POSSIBILITY. Even kids who "never lie" are capable of an occasional mistake in judgement.

In any case, again I am SO SORRY for what happened, but I still believe that only you and the kids who experienced this should confront DCL with it. It will not help for those on this board who did not experience this to e-mail or write DCL based on this thread. That would only bog down the process of getting to the root of the problem. I am sure that DCL will take YOUR comments seriously and will work to eliminate any future problems with the program.

[GoofyDisney]

Hello tlgoblue "who is with GOBLue Guy"!

Toadman - thank you for posting this thread. Since adults are rarely in the common grounds and rarely privy to minute by minute activites, it is good that you would share with all of us your family's experience.

[my3kids]

If this is typical of what goes on in Common Grounds, I'll be canceling my vacation for next year since my son will have turned 13 at that point. NO WAY will he set foot in there if this is what Common Grounds calls supervised activities.

[Michelle]

My3kids, I would definitely not cancel my vacation on the basis of one post. We have NEVER had anyone report similar circumstances in the teen programming on any other cruise, just keep that in mind. :)

This seems to be turning into more of a debate than a discussion I am going to close it.

Toadman, if you have updates you'd like to post after contacting DCL please feel free to do so in a separate post. Thank you for sharing your experience.