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disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 12:58 AM
so i've started making reservations for my trip in October.

you would think i would get sticker shock from the international segments of my trip, but no, the domestic segments had me searching the house for oxygen.

I have to fly from JFK to Orlando and then from Detroit to JFK (i already have the MCO - Detroit segment, as i'm traveling with others, who've already purchased that segment).

From JFK to Orlando, the cheapest non-stop one way fare is $101 (Delta).

From Detroit to JFK the cheapest non-stop one way fare is $647 (Delta) :scared1: :scared1: :scared1: :scared1: :scared1:
You read that right - $647 to fly one way from detroit to JFK. And this is for the beginning of November.

Why the extreme difference in fares?
one word - competition.

Jet Blue also flies from JFK to MCO (their one way fare that day is $138 - so delta is lowballing).

But from detroit to JFK, the only non-stop available is with Delta (who could have predicted i would be longing for the return of northworst).

So with no competition on the Detroit-JFK route, you're stuck paying through the nose (and a few other parts of the body).

It's obscene!!

jcb
05-15-2012, 04:36 AM
so i've started making reservations for my trip in October.

you would think i would get sticker shock from the international segments of my trip, but no, the domestic segments had me searching the house for oxygen.

I have to fly from JFK to Orlando and then from Detroit to JFK (i already have the MCO - Detroit segment, as i'm traveling with others, who've already purchased that segment).

From JFK to Orlando, the cheapest non-stop one way fare is $101 (Delta).

From Detroit to JFK the cheapest non-stop one way fare is $647 (Delta) :scared1: :scared1: :scared1: :scared1: :scared1:
You read that right - $647 to fly one way from detroit to JFK. And this is for the beginning of November.

Why the extreme difference in fares?
one word - competition.

Jet Blue also flies from JFK to MCO (their one way fare that day is $138 - so delta is lowballing).

But from detroit to JFK, the only non-stop available is with Delta (who could have predicted i would be longing for the return of northworst).

So with no competition on the Detroit-JFK route, you're stuck paying through the nose (and a few other parts of the body).

It's obscene!!

You travel more than I but my experience is that flying into JFK on Delta is much more expensive than flying into LaGuardia. Also, Spirit flies into LaGuardia.

If you can access it, you might look at prices on Kayak. They show several much cheaper DTW/JFK one-way flights on Delta. They are not direct, however.

I hope you enjoy your trip!

mdvlprof
05-15-2012, 07:33 AM
Is something with a connecting flight cheaper? I agree with PP that neighboring airports are often cheaper. Even with cost of ground transport, flying into different airport may be a whole lot less exoensive.

1Grumpy9
05-15-2012, 07:43 AM
I know what you are saying about sticker shock!!! I was supposed to travel to Chattanooga in July to visit a friend.

I started looking in December when we finalized my dates to go down there. I needed to get my tax refund before I could purchase. When I started looking a flight from BWI to ATL (with a shuttle to 'Nooga) would have cost me around $200. I was also waiting on an airline voucher that I was to get from renewing a ticket package for NASCAR races, but that never came. When I finally got my tax refund in February, airfares jumped to over $300 for Airtran/Southwest. To go from two major airports (including a HUB for Airtran) it was ridiculous!!! I told my friend that I had to postpone my trip to visit until next year.

I have to start planning my February trip to Daytona. I am probably going to fly from Harrisburg International to MCO. Luckily, Frontier is taking over that flight from Airtran after they pull out at the end of the month. They don't have February prices up yet, but I am hoping they stay where they are right now. Once they do, I am just going to book the flight because they are too good of a price ($89.90 one way).

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 07:44 AM
You travel more than I but my experience is that flying into JFK on Delta is much more expensive than flying into LaGuardia. Also, Spirit flies into LaGuardia.

If you can access it, you might look at prices on Kayak. They show several much cheaper DTW/JFK one-way flights on Delta. They are not direct, however.

I hope you enjoy your trip!

the point is, when there is competition, as on the JFK-Orlando route, the non-stop price is only $101.

but on the detroit-JFK route, where there is no competition, only delta, the non-stop price is $647.

that is as they say, highway robbery, and they get away with it because of the lack of competition.

no you cannot fly into la guardia when you are on your way out of the country and no you cannot fly indirect when you are on your way out of the country.

if delta were the only airline on the JFK-MCO route, the airfare would be similarly usurious.

i have no option but to pay that rate.

it is an obscenity.

(by the way, i do use kayak, which is how i know that delta is the only non-stop from detroit to JFK).

have i mentioned how much i hate delta?
their service is horrifyingly bad, and they charge more than it would cost me to fly from JFK to london on the same day!!!!!!!!

yes, i could fly from JFK to london for only $400 on the same day as delta wants $647 to take me on a 2 hour flight from Detroit to JFK.

if you don't think that's highway robbery, i have a bridge to sell you :)

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 07:52 AM
by the way, i just checked chicago - jet blue flies the Chicago-JFK route, so wonder of wonder, Delta offers a non-stop airfare of $111, the very same rate as jet blue...

and that's to fly further (chicago-JFK is a longer flight than Detroit-JFK).

with all this regulating the US govt seems to love to do, why don't they regulate usurious airfares?

Fantasia Sam
05-15-2012, 08:38 AM
OMGosh Beth that IS daylight robbery! I'm starting to feel better about my flight prices from London to NYC now.

Poor you!

luke
05-15-2012, 09:11 AM
My flights from the UK to Orlando For next march/April are coming out at over $2000 per person at the moment.
More highway robbery :(

:goodvibes

Maleficent53
05-15-2012, 09:28 AM
Have you thought about buying a round trip Detroit-JFK-DTW with a fictious return date? Advance purchase RT fares can be hundreds less than a OW ticket.

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 10:56 AM
Have you thought about buying a round trip Detroit-JFK-DTW with a fictious return date? Advance purchase RT fares can be hundreds less than a OW ticket.

i'm going to try that right now and see what comes up :)

BigGreen73
05-15-2012, 11:11 AM
Definately feel everyones pain. Been trying to book Sept roundtrip from Maine or Orlando and the cheapest is $600+. And that's Delta for a 6pm arriving at Midnight flight. Ugh. No thanks.

Booked the same flights for Sept 2010 and the flights were 450-500 for both of us roundtrip. Now exact same flights are 600-800. Really?:headache:

I just ended up going w/ JetBlue. IMO, better service, TV, better snacks, 1st bag free, larger overhead bins etc. Yeah, it costed a bit more but going w/ say delta for a little less $$$ just isn't worth it. Lesser services, pathetic snacks, no TV, pay for bags etc. It'll end up costing the same enyway.

So to any flying, good luck. If this airfare increase keeps up, it's going to price me right out of going to WDW. :sad2:

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 11:15 AM
Have you thought about buying a round trip Detroit-JFK-DTW with a fictious return date? Advance purchase RT fares can be hundreds less than a OW ticket.

it's not true on the MCO-DTW route or on the JFK-MCO route, where the round trip is exactly double the one way fare.

But on the DTW-JFK route it is true.
one way is $647.
round trip Detroit-JFK-Detroit is $335.


thanks for reminding me of that.
$335 is still obscene compare to the $111 from chicago, but it's much better than $647!!

lugnut33
05-15-2012, 01:47 PM
You should drive from Detroit to NYC, it's not a long trip. You could probably rent a car for a day for under $100. Plus you could stop at Niagra Falls on the way.

LionKingRules84
05-15-2012, 02:55 PM
I feel your pain!

I haven't looked for airline tickets since my trip in '07 and looking now it's like fairs have quadrupled! :scared1: It's sad when $2,000(and that's the cheapest fairs) can only get you one way to Europe for two people I haven't the slightest idea how families can travel these days. :sad2:

I agree with above driving to Detroit may take longer but it's probably cheaper than flying, sadly.

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 02:57 PM
You should drive from Detroit to NYC, it's not a long trip. You could probably rent a car for a day for under $100. Plus you could stop at Niagra Falls on the way.

i really should do that - and i would if i weren't traveling with someone else!

She'll probably be able to use her FF miles to get a seat (in first class since she's stratospheric FF level), and i'll have to pay through the nose to sit in cattle class.....
i didn't even look at the FC fare.....wonder what it is...

disneyholic family
05-15-2012, 03:01 PM
OMG - first class one way is $713....
so economy class one way is $647 and first class one way is $713...

is that a no brainer?

Cyrano
05-15-2012, 03:17 PM
Yikes Beth those are scary prices :scared1:

AndyPok1
05-15-2012, 09:11 PM
As someone who works in the airline industry, let me try to help explain things.

The legacy carriers (aka that are full-service... AA, DL, UA, US), for the most part operate coach at a loss. First class and international travel (especially business/first) subsidize the entire airline's network.

Between union contracts (which, while everyone has shed them in bankruptcy, still aren't great) and fuel prices, the actual cost of a ticket to the airline is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the ~$150 fares you are seeing on the JFK route.

As you noted, the reason it is cheap is because of competition, but obviously there can't be competition on every route. ESPECIALLY when talking about leisure destinations such as MCO.

EDIT: Just noticed you were talking about DTW-->JFK. Basically NYC can command any prices they want, because it's either leisure or time sensitive business. I would almost guarantee there are many people that commute DTW-->JFK in the morning and JFK -->DTW at night on a regular basis. The majority of the post still applies though.

One other thing is that, with the exception of holiday/special travel times, the major airlines do not operate the same way as cruises do with tiered pricing until there is 30/21/14/7/3 days left until the flight. Often you can catch a better deal two months out than six months out. I recently signed up to go on the ABD to California at the end of July, but I probably won't book my airfare for another month. However again, the rule doesn't necessarily apply to MCO, since it is a leisure market so the seats will be sold regardless.

If there's anything I can try to explain more in depth, I'd be glad to. But basically one-ways from airline hub<-->leisure market will be expensive, simply because they can... but also because that's what it actually costs.

One final thing I should note is that technically buying a RT that you don't intend to use is a violation of the CoC (Contract of Carriage). While you most likely will not have any adverse effects unless you do it regularly, they are within their rights to cancel all of your flights (and confiscate your frequent flier account, if applicable).

AndyPok1
05-15-2012, 09:21 PM
Also, I'm seeing flights for sub ~200 DTW --> JFK on DL for the entire month of October. You simply have to connect somewhere like Baltimore.

Basically the reason that flight is expensive is what I edited in my last post. There's enough people (aka businesses) willing to pay the $650+ price so that they get there in 2.5 hours. If you don't need to be there that quickly, take a pit stop in BWI, and get there for a quarter of the price.

http://www.andysite.net/directory/dtwjfk.PNG

WaltD4Me
05-15-2012, 11:29 PM
I've been trying to help my brother find airfare for their trip to WDW for the end of September. We fly out of Cleveland and prices have gone up considerably, especially since Continental merged with United. Can't really go with Southwest anymore as they no longer do non-stop out of Cleveland to MCO and flight times have more than doubled. :headache: What I can't understand is that they can fly out of Columbus on Continental for $100 cheaper than Cleveland, BUT the flight out of Columbus,flys into Cleveland for a layover, then goes to MCO. It's just ridiculous, if they can drive to Columbus and get the flight for $100 cheaper, why can't they just get on the plane in Cleveland for the same price? It just doesn't make sense. :mad:

disneyholic family
05-16-2012, 04:42 AM
As someone who works in the airline industry, let me try to help explain things.

The legacy carriers (aka that are full-service... AA, DL, UA, US), for the most part operate coach at a loss. First class and international travel (especially business/first) subsidize the entire airline's network.

Between union contracts (which, while everyone has shed them in bankruptcy, still aren't great) and fuel prices, the actual cost of a ticket to the airline is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the ~$150 fares you are seeing on the JFK route.

As you noted, the reason it is cheap is because of competition, but obviously there can't be competition on every route. ESPECIALLY when talking about leisure destinations such as MCO.

EDIT: Just noticed you were talking about DTW-->JFK. Basically NYC can command any prices they want, because it's either leisure or time sensitive business. I would almost guarantee there are many people that commute DTW-->JFK in the morning and JFK -->DTW at night on a regular basis. The majority of the post still applies though.

One other thing is that, with the exception of holiday/special travel times, the major airlines do not operate the same way as cruises do with tiered pricing until there is 30/21/14/7/3 days left until the flight. Often you can catch a better deal two months out than six months out. I recently signed up to go on the ABD to California at the end of July, but I probably won't book my airfare for another month. However again, the rule doesn't necessarily apply to MCO, since it is a leisure market so the seats will be sold regardless.

If there's anything I can try to explain more in depth, I'd be glad to. But basically one-ways from airline hub<-->leisure market will be expensive, simply because they can... but also because that's what it actually costs.

One final thing I should note is that technically buying a RT that you don't intend to use is a violation of the CoC (Contract of Carriage). While you most likely will not have any adverse effects unless you do it regularly, they are within their rights to cancel all of your flights (and confiscate your frequent flier account, if applicable).


yes the reason that it's cheap on the other routes is because of competition.

the reason it's so expensive to fly in and out of detroit is because who the heck wants to go to detroit?????????????????
no one.
so only delta flies in and out, for the most part.

it used to be NWA that owned detroit, now it's delta (sucks to be a detroiter).

Maleficent53
05-16-2012, 09:49 AM
Copied from previous post ----
She'll probably be able to use her FF miles to get a seat (in first class since she's stratospheric FF level), and i'll have to pay through the nose to sit in cattle class.....
--------

Perhaps your friend (with all her miles earned from FF travel) would set you up with a mileage ticket from her account. You could offer to compensate her a "fair" price - win for you and she get $$ in her pocket for spending cash!

I did this for my sisters on one of our last trips.....I got them mileage tickets from my account -- and they paid the hotel bill! WIN-WIN!

btw-I feel your pain as a Detroiter. I am in Minnesota and our airfares have skyrocketed since Delta took over. We have paid as little as $120 RT to our average high of just under $300 to get to MCO. Our last trip in February fares were over $400 each. Gosh, I miss NWA!

disneyholic family
05-16-2012, 10:15 AM
Copied from previous post ----
She'll probably be able to use her FF miles to get a seat (in first class since she's stratospheric FF level), and i'll have to pay through the nose to sit in cattle class.....
--------

Perhaps your friend (with all her miles earned from FF travel) would set you up with a mileage ticket from her account. You could offer to compensate her a "fair" price - win for you and she get $$ in her pocket for spending cash!

I did this for my sisters on one of our last trips.....I got them mileage tickets from my account -- and they paid the hotel bill! WIN-WIN!

btw-I feel your pain as a Detroiter. I am in Minnesota and our airfares have skyrocketed since Delta took over. We have paid as little as $120 RT to our average high of just under $300 to get to MCO. Our last trip in February fares were over $400 each. Gosh, I miss NWA!

yes, minnesota, the other hub of NWA - in the same boat as detroit..

for true sticker shock, take a gander at the prices from detroit to minneapolis..

my brother in law has to fly that route for business.....
the price often goes up to $1,200 for ECONOMY!!!! :scared1: :scared1:
yes, you read that right, $1,200 round trip to fly from detroit to Minneapolis...

i wonder how much more a private jet could cost than that

pgianna
05-16-2012, 03:38 PM
My flights from the UK to Orlando For next march/April are coming out at over $2000 per person at the moment.
More highway robbery






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AndyPok1
05-16-2012, 04:47 PM
What I can't understand is that they can fly out of Columbus on Continental for $100 cheaper than Cleveland, BUT the flight out of Columbus,flys into Cleveland for a layover, then goes to MCO. It's just ridiculous, if they can drive to Columbus and get the flight for $100 cheaper, why can't they just get on the plane in Cleveland for the same price? It just doesn't make sense. :mad:

It actually does make sense... in the most illogical way possible.

Imagine airlines were MegaBuses. And they could take any path they want to get to their destination. Well then, cost would be derived from solely two factors. Actual expense that the company is occuring, and demand for that route. The less demand, the less expensive the route is.

Airlines actually operate by the same theory. According to some accountant/computer/alien's numbers, the demand for CMH-->MCO is less $100 less than CLE -->MCO. So that's what the price is.

However, because airlines are not buses and can't simply take the most direct route, they have to route you through CLE (or ORD or IAD or though unlikely possibly even IAH).

Every origin/destination pair is costed completely separate based on demand, no matter where (or how many) stops it takes to get there. I have often been able to add an extra stop instead of flying direct so save money. (And boost my frequent flier mile balance in the process!)

Basically, it's all free market economics. And economics... often just doesn't make sense!