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Tunseeker1
04-29-2012, 07:51 PM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.

Tunseeker1
04-29-2012, 07:55 PM
And that's not figuring in replacing points with rental points if you wanted to travel before '14

Missyrose
04-29-2012, 07:58 PM
I personally wouldn't bother with a contract like that. The price per point you would offer to offset the stripped nature of the contract likely wouldn't pass ROFR.

Wait for a better contract.

Deb & Bill
04-29-2012, 08:13 PM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.
Do you plan to go to Vero Beach? If you don't why not just buy an OKW or SSR or AKV contract? Then you would at least be guaranteed a stay at WDW if you booked at 11 months out.

Missyrose
04-29-2012, 08:18 PM
Do you plan to go to Vero Beach? If you don't why not just buy an OKW or SSR or AKV contract? Then you would at least be guaranteed a stay at WDW if you booked at 11 months out.

Deb, if you look at his posts from the last few days, he's been spending his time trying to convince everyone that the lower cost to buy in at VB makes it a better deal than the WDW resorts.

Tunseeker1
04-29-2012, 08:34 PM
Actually VB books up at the 7month mark. My wife has decided going to the beach would be nice.

I am buying vb to stay there.

I have been telling people that small contracts might be worth looking into direct,and vb is a decent value.

This contract proves that some people want more then buying direct for a contract.

I had okw points before I had kids, and I have an AKV waiting for ROFR right now!

Judique
04-29-2012, 08:35 PM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.

The value in this contract is for the seller if they are able to get you to buy it. It's a stripped contract. No points for almost 2 years and then you have to borrow them!

Deb & Bill
04-29-2012, 08:42 PM
The value in this contract is for the seller if they are able to get you to buy it. It's a stripped contract. No points for almost 2 years and then you have to borrow them!

Exactly. You won't get points for two years and you'll be out of money so you won't even be able to book a stay or rent points from another member.

So did they use the points for a cruise that hasn't been taken yet or for a trip after 8/1/12? Is there a request for delayed closing?

Dean
04-29-2012, 08:46 PM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.IMO, it's not a good deal to use points for WDW even if it wasn't stripped. Assuming you pay no fees on closing and fees for Jan, 13, you'd be overpaying on fees by 19 months worth. I don't believe the price break is enough to justify the headache of no 11 month window if WDW is the goal and the much higher fees will eat any potential savings in about 5 years compared to say SSR or OKW as a points cow. VB is a great resort, if you want to stay there most years our want a Beach House periodically (not just the option) then it may be reasonable to buy there. However, if you're set on proceeding with VB you should ask that the seller split closing and credit you for the Jan, 2013 fees as a MINIMUM.

ELMC
04-29-2012, 08:54 PM
Do you plan to go to Vero Beach? If you don't why not just buy an OKW or SSR or AKV contract? Then you would at least be guaranteed a stay at WDW if you booked at 11 months out.

Well at the rate Disney has been ROFRing OKW contracts, the only place you're guaranteed to stay if you buy one of those is your house. :rotfl2:

(Well I thought it was funny).

But seriously, good point. The problem is that the OP has a habit of finding the worst possible contracts available for resale and then uses them as evidence of how buying direct is better. Then this happens... :stir:

ELMC
04-29-2012, 09:04 PM
I have been telling people that...vb is a decent value.



I believe the word you are looking for is quagmire. Any savings that you might realize on the purchase price are eaten up after 5 years of maintenance fees. Then what do you do for the next 25 years? (besides sit there and hemorrhage money thinking about what a great deal you got)

Please explain how entering into a 30 year agreement where the fees are 27% higher than the next most expensive resort is a "value".

Tunseeker1
04-29-2012, 09:05 PM
Well at the rate Disney has been ROFRing OKW contracts, the only place you're guaranteed to stay if you buy one of those is your house. :rotfl2:

(Well I thought it was funny).

But seriously, good point. The problem is that the OP has a habit of finding the worst possible contracts available for resale and then uses them as evidence of how buying direct is better. Then this happens... :stir:

That was funny!

The reason I find what would be the worst contracts out there is because people as listing these and GETTING OFFERS!

I just don't understand the logic. This contract Is open and would work with my UY

ELMC
04-29-2012, 09:09 PM
That was funny!

Thank you. :)

The reason I find what would be the worst contracts out there is because people as listing these and GETTING OFFERS!

And I think we have identified the problem. You're baffled by the fact that these contracts are selling and you're trying to make sense of it. Well....don't! People out there make poor financial decisions or make decisions based on emotion or sometimes don't even make a decision they just react. You're not going to stop them and you certainly aren't going to beat them. You just have to move on.

I just don't understand the logic. This contract Is open and would work with my UY

I don't think logic is at play here.

Tunseeker1
04-29-2012, 09:48 PM
We agree on something!

I remember when most contracts were bought back by Disney, and there were no stripped contracts.

I see some of these like people selling their house after they sell the kitchen cabinets!

dbs1228
04-30-2012, 06:50 AM
I too cannot see any logic in a stripped contract with no points for 2 years! If I was buying I would leave my money where it is and wait 2 years to buy - by that time prices should have gone down even more and no worries about dues or seeing a better contract come along!

KSL
04-30-2012, 09:30 AM
At the risk of entering into this, knowing you will all tell me I made a horrible decision.... I am posting in defense of the stripped contract.

We made an offer on a contract with very few points available for 2012 & 2013, full points starting in 2014. Our logic was this:
(1) we really wanted this resort (BWV)
(2) this was exactly the number of points we wanted
(3) this is a good use year for us
(4) we have the cash now to purchase, and
(5) we already have points budgeted through our existing BLT contract to cover our trips for this summer and next (so aren't planning to use more points until 2014).

So for us, this stripped contract was good because we don't need the points yet and are not interested in getting involved with renting, and don't want to be paying MFs on points we don't really need - we are only paying the MF on the 2012 and 2013 points that we are actually receiving (again, very few). But there have been so few BWV contracts listed, and once we made the decision that we would like to have more points starting in 2014, we were ready to go ahead and add on and be set with it. We accept that we are risking that resale costs may go lower and that the MF may go up for 2013 whereas we are only being credited costs based on 2012 rates.

Now, we are currently waiting on passing ROFR and who knows - maybe Disney will take this and we will be back to the drawing board. But if not, we are happy with this deal and it works for us. Quite likely not a good deal for most people, I realize. But with the lack of offerings at BWV lately (not to mention at the number of points and Use Year we want), we're really hoping it all goes through!

Now....I am bracing myself for all of you telling me how wrong I was.... BE KIND!! ;)

Tunseeker1
04-30-2012, 09:40 AM
Ok brace yourself.

Did you get a contract you want?
Do you need the points?
Did you get a price your happy with?

If your happy then I'm happy you got the contract you wanted.
Good luck in rofr

If I could find the resort I want, correct UY and good price I would consider a stripped contract, but I can't figure out how to come up with a good offer. I found a ssr that would work for $15 a point higher then direct then paying closing

AllieV
04-30-2012, 09:52 AM
I'll defend the stripped contract, too, though I'm still deciding if it's right for me. I saw a stripped bcv at the right points. Not a great UY but I can work with it. No points till very late 2014, meaning I couldn't really use it till at least spring 2015. But if I could get it for $50 a point, I'd be thrilled. I could keep saving till 2015 and find a nice loaded one, but I'd probably pay $25-$35 pp more. In the meantime, I'd only be paying $15-ish more pp to pay the dues for all three of those years (13-15). So I think I'd still come out ahead and I can negotiate the seller paying closing to make up for using the 13 points, so it's a true $50pp. They'd also pay '12 dues. With a loaded contract three years from now, I'd have to reimburse dues and split or cover closing, putting the point cost another $10 higher even more.

goldenears
04-30-2012, 10:04 AM
The contract works for you and if you are happy with it, then no one else needs to be. Could you have bought a loaded contract, rented the points you don't need and lowered your price/point? Yes. Could you have waited two years and possibly paid less per point? Yes. In the end, we look at today, what is available and make the decisions that work best for the moment we are in. No one knows for sure what tomorrow holds. In addition, my DH always reminds me that our time needs to be factored into our decisions. If spending your time renting points isn't valuable to you, then that is a factor. Supply and demand for BWV could also be different in two years and you may have had to spend more time finding and negotiating the right contract for your family.
Congratulations on finding a contract that works for you. I wish you the best with ROFR! Keep us updated :)
As for OP... my DH and I LOVE VB. It was a wonderful getaway for us at the end of two out of three of our pregnancies. I hope to go back sometime soon. With that said, we do not plan on vacationing there regularly, so I would not buy there. As others have said, the cost of dues will outweigh any cost per point savings that you see initially. If you see yourself vacationing there regularly and you can see past the cons, then it might be the place for you. As for the stripped VB contract, I would pass. This resort is in less demand and you can probably negotiate something more worthwhile on another contract.

KSL
04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
Gee, thanks guys! :lovestruc I was fully prepared to hear several arguments (and maybe they're still coming..:goodvibes) for why we shouldn't have gone for the stripped one. We're quite happy with it, but I know conventional wisdom says not to go for those. Renting would never have worked for me - I would have wanted to USE the extra points, which would be more vacations than I can justify in the next 2 years (we have some other non-Disney things planned as well)! ;) I had been hoping the fact that it has nearly no points until 2014 would help us get through ROFR, but apparently not! :worried: Didn't realize (but suspected it was possible) that Mickey has a few tricks up his sleeve to make stripped contracts 'whole' again to resell. Fingers crossed that he doesn't want this one. I will keep you all posted!
AllieV - on the deal you're considering, shouldn't they also pay the 2013 MFs if no points until 2014? Or is having them pay closing a better deal for you? I agree with goldenears that you never know what will happen in the future (which was absolutely also part of our reasoning, though I forgot to list it among our considerations) so if this deal looks good to you, I'd go for it (but again, that's me following the logic that brought me to my situation!). Let us know what you decide!

ELMC
04-30-2012, 10:47 AM
Gee, thanks guys! :lovestruc I was fully prepared to hear several arguments (and maybe they're still coming..:goodvibes) for why we shouldn't have gone for the stripped one. We're quite happy with it, but I know conventional wisdom says not to go for those. Renting would never have worked for me - I would have wanted to USE the extra points, which would be more vacations than I can justify in the next 2 years (we have some other non-Disney things planned as well)! ;) I had been hoping the fact that it has nearly no points until 2014 would help us get through ROFR, but apparently not! :worried: Didn't realize (but suspected it was possible) that Mickey has a few tricks up his sleeve to make stripped contracts 'whole' again to resell. Fingers crossed that he doesn't want this one. I will keep you all posted!
AllieV - on the deal you're considering, shouldn't they also pay the 2013 MFs if no points until 2014? Or is having them pay closing a better deal for you? I agree with goldenears that you never know what will happen in the future (which was absolutely also part of our reasoning, though I forgot to list it among our considerations) so if this deal looks good to you, I'd go for it (but again, that's me following the logic that brought me to my situation!). Let us know what you decide!

I think one of the people you are waiting for to be critical of your decision is me (although I hope that's not the case...I try to be a nice guy) :) Well I have to tell you, I'm not going to be. You made a conscious decision to pay a little more for something that you wanted. Although it's not a big deal to me, matching use years is a big deal to a lot of DVC owners. So to get a contract with the use year you want adds value. Also, given the drought in BWV listings, there was a pretty good chance you weren't going to get anything or that prices are going to continue to rise...thus leaving you out on the cold. In the end, I do feel that you spent probably a little more than you had to. But you have what you want, and there's value to that. I've lost out on some great contracts because I refused to go higher with my price. So who's the smart one...you with the contract or me with nothing? :)

Look at it this way. If you had bought direct from Disney it would have been $115 a point minus $20 for two year's worth of points, so the equivalent price would've been $95 per point. You paid $57. Great savings there.

From a sheer numbers standpoint, stripped contracts aren't the best deal in the world. But as you have so eloquently described, life is about more than just numbers. Congrats on your purchase and good luck with ROFR. :)

DougEMG
04-30-2012, 11:58 AM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.


I would not even both with this contract. $39/point + 2013 MF with no points till 2014 is a bad deal.

DougEMG
04-30-2012, 12:01 PM
That was funny!

The reason I find what would be the worst contracts out there is because people as listing these and GETTING OFFERS!

I just don't understand the logic. This contract Is open and would work with my UY

People are bad at math....

DougEMG
04-30-2012, 12:09 PM
I was looking at a resale listing and it was confusing as to how to put some kind of value on it.

It is vb 150@$39
Closing of 400.

5 points coming on 8/1/13 and 150 points coming on 8/1/14.

I understand they are using points from '13 for a vacation and using all '12 points.

The seller would have paid '12 mf, but the new owner would pay '13 mf.
Would you ask for a discount or is the price fair as listed?

At $39 a point with closing it would be about $42 a point.
If buyer pays for '13 mf it's $7.12 a point for points you can't use or rent out.


Use the spreadsheet that you created ;)

http://http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2917043

permavac
04-30-2012, 12:17 PM
...You made a conscious decision to pay a little more for something that you wanted...

I think this is the "A-HA" moment that everyone is looking for. The "conscious decision" to buy a stripped contract - taking all things into consideration and deciding to go ahead and knowing what kind of deal you are getting - this is what is sometimes lacking. KSL - you didn't post "Hey guys, I just bought a stripped contract for nearly the same amount of money that I could have bought a loaded contract. Did I get a good deal?" THAT would probably have gotten you flamed ;)


...Look at it this way. If you had bought direct from Disney it would have been $115 a point minus $20 for two year's worth of points, so the equivalent price would've been $95 per point. You paid $57. Great savings there...

THIS is the 2nd component. There is a spectrum of savings to be had out there - there isn't a one-size fits all to buying a resale contract, otherwise, we would all have gotten our contracts for $38 per point, loaded with banked points from 2 years ago. If you can say that you saved money over buying direct (and it was worth the hassle of going through the rigmarole of ROFR and waiting) then you accomplished what you set out to do in the first place.

Terri

ELMC
04-30-2012, 12:58 PM
THIS is the 2nd component. There is a spectrum of savings to be had out there - there isn't a one-size fits all to buying a resale contract, otherwise, we would all have gotten our contracts for $38 per point, loaded with banked points from 2 years ago. If you can say that you saved money over buying direct (and it was worth the hassle of going through the rigmarole of ROFR and waiting) then you accomplished what you set out to do in the first place.

Terri

Very well said. :woohoo:

The fact of the matter is, getting the lowest of the low prices takes a LOT of work. People (like me) come on here and post that they got OKW for $40pp with two years points but what they don't say is that they made offers on about 20 OKW contracts to get that one deal...and it got taken by Disney! I can definitely see the point that it's not worth it to save a couple of extra dollars on top of the big money you are saving by buying resale in the first place.

Tunseeker1
04-30-2012, 01:10 PM
Use the spreadsheet that you created ;)

http://http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2917043

I tried to. The spreadsheet said it wouldn't dignify the contract with an offer and run away :moped: didn't remember putting that into the programming

DougEMG
04-30-2012, 01:14 PM
I tried to. The spreadsheet said it wouldn't dignify the contract with an offer and run away :moped: didn't remember putting that into the programming


That's funny :rotfl:

ELMC
04-30-2012, 01:22 PM
Use the spreadsheet that you created ;)

http://http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2917043

I don't need a spreadsheet. The acceptable offer for that contract is $7.50.

$39pp - $20 replacement costs for missing points - $7.50 for 2013 maintenance fees - $3 pp for closing costs (hey...I'm not paying closing on a contract I can't use right away) - $1 per point because you should always offer a little less than asking price.

That's if you're just about the math. If this is a "I gotta have it" situation then math goes out the window.

Tunseeker1
04-30-2012, 02:35 PM
7 bux is a good deal!

Dean
04-30-2012, 05:51 PM
At the risk of entering into this, knowing you will all tell me I made a horrible decision.... I am posting in defense of the stripped contract.

We made an offer on a contract with very few points available for 2012 & 2013, full points starting in 2014. Our logic was this:
(1) we really wanted this resort (BWV)
(2) this was exactly the number of points we wanted
(3) this is a good use year for us
(4) we have the cash now to purchase, and
(5) we already have points budgeted through our existing BLT contract to cover our trips for this summer and next (so aren't planning to use more points until 2014).

So for us, this stripped contract was good because we don't need the points yet and are not interested in getting involved with renting, and don't want to be paying MFs on points we don't really need - we are only paying the MF on the 2012 and 2013 points that we are actually receiving (again, very few). But there have been so few BWV contracts listed, and once we made the decision that we would like to have more points starting in 2014, we were ready to go ahead and add on and be set with it. We accept that we are risking that resale costs may go lower and that the MF may go up for 2013 whereas we are only being credited costs based on 2012 rates.

Now, we are currently waiting on passing ROFR and who knows - maybe Disney will take this and we will be back to the drawing board. But if not, we are happy with this deal and it works for us. Quite likely not a good deal for most people, I realize. But with the lack of offerings at BWV lately (not to mention at the number of points and Use Year we want), we're really hoping it all goes through!

Now....I am bracing myself for all of you telling me how wrong I was.... BE KIND!! ;)As you point out, there are other factors. As long as you didn't overpay significantly and you wanted whatever resort and this contract works for you, I don't think it was a bad choice. One has to balance getting a good deal and micromanaging and everyone has a different set point for that situation. The issue on stripped contracts isn't necessarily that they are but that often they end up being a far worse deal than those that aren't.

AllieV
04-30-2012, 08:54 PM
AllieV - on the deal you're considering, shouldn't they also pay the 2013 MFs if no points until 2014? Or is having them pay closing a better deal for you? !
Closing costs are about a hundred bucks less than 2013 dues, but there's no real way to say, "you pay 2013 dues" except to work it into the price per point. I think at $50, and they pay all the extras, it works out. But I doubt they'd take it. I'd also have to save points until 2016 to get a real vacation out of it and in the meantime, I'd sacrifice this year's and next year's trips. One thing I said about buying small is that I don't have to do that. So I'm looking for a stripped one with an earlier UY instead.

KSL
04-30-2012, 09:29 PM
Hi AllieV -- Ok, so based on what you wrote this may be a moot point, but just as info: we told the broker that we would only pay the dues on the 2012 and 2013 points that we were getting, and that we expected Seller to pay the dues on the points that they were keeping from those years. So our contract has some language in it along the lines that the Seller is responsible for annual dues on X number of points from 2012 due at closing, and that I am responsible for annual dues starting Jan 2013, but that I will receive a credit at closing for the dues on the 2013 points that the Buyer is retaining. Just wanted to mention that it is possible to have the seller pay the MFs on the points they are retaining, if that works out best in your situation.

OP: sorry, I feel like I've hijacked your post - promise to leave it alone from this point on, or at least get back to your original topic!