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kandb
04-24-2012, 03:00 PM
She is considering selling her DVC, which her home resort is OKW and she has 330 points. To be perfectly honest, I know NOTHING about timeshares but I do know my family loves disney and we go every year. I am just unsure of how much she will sell it for and don't understand any fees I might have to pay per year. Can someone clue me in? Thanks

PS she said something about her home resort okw that they have a studio that they usually stay in. Can we stay in any other DVC on disney property if we buy hers with is with OKW? Thanks

disneynutz
04-24-2012, 03:36 PM
You have a lot to learn. Start reading the posts here on the DIS. DVC can save some people money, it all depends on several factors.

:earsboy: Bill

chalee94
04-24-2012, 03:44 PM
just so you know, this would be a resale transaction. you would basically be limited to DVC resorts (typically the best use of DVC pts anyway) and RCI trades (which are rarely a good value).

no trading out for disney cruises or stays at the polynesian.

She is considering selling her DVC, which her home resort is OKW and she has 330 points. To be perfectly honest, I know NOTHING about timeshares but I do know my family loves disney and we go every year. I am just unsure of how much she will sell it for and don't understand any fees I might have to pay per year. Can someone clue me in?

upfront price would probably be around $17,000, give or take a few thousand. that would depend on how many pts are currently available (are there banked pts? for a stripped contract with no pts coming till 2013, the price would go lower) and how hard you want to negotiate.

contracts of 300 pts are fairly large and can be difficult to sell, so there's probably no hurry.

you should look at the DVC resource thread here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2823952

annual fees for a 330 pt OKW contract currently run a little over $1700 per year ($5.20 per pt x 330 pts). this will likely go up every year.

she said something about her home resort okw that they have a studio that they usually stay in. Can we stay in any other DVC on disney property if we buy hers with is with OKW?

there is a link to the DVC point charts in the top right hand corner of the screen. take a look at the OKW charts to see how far 330 pts might take you.

you can book OKW at 11 months out with OKW pts. at 7 months, you can try to book other DVC resorts based on availability. you'll often be able to change resorts at 7 months but if you decide you hate OKW, you may find the limitations frustrating. and if you have specific villas in mind - boardwalk view at BWV or concierge rooms at AKV - you will probably be out of luck more often than not.

i wouldn't buy at OKW if you wouldn't be happy staying there.

this is a huge investment - take at least a few weeks and do some serious homework before you sign anything. timeshares are easy to buy but can sometimes be tough to sell...

chalee94
04-24-2012, 03:51 PM
there are also nuances like "use year" that you will have to learn.

for example, if their contract is has a UY month of september and you like to travel in the summer (jun/jul/aug), that would be a poor choice as it puts you in a bad position should you need to cancel.

read both positive reviews and negative to see whether DVC would be a good fit for how you vacation. here is a good negative review:

I hate to say it, but I am one of the ones who went into my DVC purchase with stars in my eyes and now regret it. I love, love Disney and want to go everytime that I can. I have also really liked every DVC resort that I have stayed in (and we have stayed in all but SSR). Now here is the big BUT, I find it really difficult to plan as far in advance as we need for DVC. I have tried several trips both at DVC and exchanges that I could not take because of no availability. So while DVC may be great for a lot of people, I have discovered that I need more flexibility for vacation planning than DVC affords me.

lots to learn...

zavandor
04-24-2012, 04:59 PM
I would suggest too to read all posts on the DIS. All of them.
You'll learn about what is a Use Year, limitations of buying resale, which resorts you'll be able to book at the seven months windows in which period of the year.
If you buy you would pay a lot of money, it's better to be sure to understand everything of the program.

Just a little suggestion, when you'll negotiate the price with your friend, remind her that selling to you she will not pay any fee to a broker. It's usually 10% off the price. That could help to get a good price ;)
Unfortunately, you cannot go too low, because in the latest months Disney seems to exercise ROFR quite often of OKW contract (BTW, do you know what ROFR means?).

princesscinderella
04-24-2012, 05:09 PM
I might be way off base here so feel free to chime in if I'm incorrect. If this is a transaction between friends couldn't they just do a name change on the contract just like if a parent gives it to their child and preserve the direct purchase benefits. The money could then change hands outside of the arrangement. That would avoid also avoid ROFR process also I presume.

ELMC
04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Unfortunately, you cannot go too low, because in the latest months Disney seems to exercise ROFR quite often of OKW contract.

This assumes that ROFR is price based. Although there is some evidence that suggests it might be, none of us really know and we are just speculating that price is a factor. I think that people who choose to pay more in order to "have a better chance of passing ROFR" are, how do I put this gently, overly cautious.

Regardless, the advice given here is sound. Until you have more answers than you do questions, it would be a good idea to hold off buying any DVC. You wouldn't buy a car if you didn't know how to drive, right? Good luck!:)

com_op_2000
04-24-2012, 06:04 PM
Since she is a friend, I would ask her to rent you a week or so at OKW using her points. Be there when she makes the reservation that way you can see/watch and develop an understanding of the process for booking a room. Have a set down discussion with her concerning all your questions. If she has been a member awhile she should be able to give you alot of information.

ELMC
04-24-2012, 06:24 PM
She is considering selling her DVC, which her home resort is OKW and she has 330 points. To be perfectly honest, I know NOTHING about timeshares but I do know my family loves disney and we go every year. I am just unsure of how much she will sell it for and don't understand any fees I might have to pay per year. Can someone clue me in? Thanks

PS she said something about her home resort okw that they have a studio that they usually stay in. Can we stay in any other DVC on disney property if we buy hers with is with OKW? Thanks

I also have to say that you might want to consider NOT buying from your friend. There's a good chance that one of you will end up getting the short end of the stick, and that could lead to hard feelings. A DVC purchase is a business transaction. I don't feel badly for the seller if I got a good deal and the seller doesn't feel badly for me if I pay too much. But when the seller is your friend...it's a whole new ballgame. Just something to consider as you are doing your research. Good luck with your decision making process! :)

Dean
04-24-2012, 07:16 PM
I might be way off base here so feel free to chime in if I'm incorrect. If this is a transaction between friends couldn't they just do a name change on the contract just like if a parent gives it to their child and preserve the direct purchase benefits. The money could then change hands outside of the arrangement. That would avoid also avoid ROFR process also I presume.Maybe but it would be illegal to represent it as a gift when it's really a sale. Also you'd likely need to leave at least one current name of the deed to make it work and get it to remain a qualified contract.

The other issue is that often these type of transactions end up not being a good deal for the buyer because the seller has unrealistic expectations of the value involved. Depending on points accountability it's only worth somewhere between $40 & 50 a point at the absolute max, less if the points are used up. IMO, really the low end to make this a fair deal for the buyer and that assumes you were willing to buy anyway. Consider that the seller is saving about $1500 in sales commissions and it's possible to do the closing yourself in this situation and save another $400.

chalee94
04-24-2012, 07:18 PM
I might be way off base here so feel free to chime in if I'm incorrect. If this is a transaction between friends couldn't they just do a name change on the contract just like if a parent gives it to their child and preserve the direct purchase benefits. The money could then change hands outside of the arrangement. That would avoid also avoid ROFR process also I presume.

what you are describing would be fraudulent, so there's that...

but even a parent gifting a contract to a child requires DVC to waive their ROFR.

DizBub
04-24-2012, 07:50 PM
I also have to say that you might want to consider NOT buying from your friend. There's a good chance that one of you will end up getting the short end of the stick, and that could lead to hard feelings. A DVC purchase is a business transaction. I don't feel badly for the seller if I got a good deal and the seller doesn't feel badly for me if I pay too much. But when the seller is your friend...it's a whole new ballgame. Just something to consider as you are doing your research. Good luck with your decision making process! :)

I have to say that I agree with NOT buying from your friend. I would agree with renting from someone, your friend or another member, just to see if you would even like it.

If your friend really wants to sell then they should contact a reputable reseller and list it and they can get what they feel is fair. Then you can buy your own and get a deal you can feel good about and not risk hard feelings. Buy where you want to stay. OKW is really lovely but it has the shortest life left on their contracts. Something to consider.

kandb
04-24-2012, 07:58 PM
Thanks everyone. I have no idea what ROFR is. This friend usually just gives people she knows her points every year because she hasn't used it in years. I think they just pay the maintenance fee. I want to say, she paid around $10k for it, years ago. I don't think she is looking to really "make" money on it, she is just looking to get rid of it, but I'm not 100% sure. Obviously, I will have to talk to her about it. She's a super nice person, and wouldn't want any hard feelings with her. I will do alot more research. Thanks for all the great advice.

Just wondering. I understand having to reserve 7 months ahead of time but would it be possible to reserve let's say bay lake dvc (the one at the contemporary) with the 330 points from OKW? If it were possible, how many points would it be for a 1 bedroom at BLV?

kandb
04-24-2012, 08:09 PM
I have another question. We are a family of 5 and it seems like most of the studios and 1 bedroom only sleep 4. Can a cot be added into the 1 bedroom dvc's? I can't believe how little accomodations there are for a family of 5. Seems silly to have to get a 2 bedroom for 5 people IMO. Thanks

Chuck S
04-24-2012, 08:11 PM
Just wondering. I understand having to reserve 7 months ahead of time but would it be possible to reserve let's say bay lake dvc (the one at the contemporary) with the 330 points from OKW? If it were possible, how many points would it be for a 1 bedroom at BLV?

You can book at any DVC resort at 7 months out, based upon availability...so some busier DVC seasons or room types may already have been booked up by people that own points at that resort.

For the number of points, look at the top of this page, just under the Blue Heron timeshare store logo, there will be a link to the DVC point charts.

Dean
04-24-2012, 08:11 PM
Thanks everyone. I have no idea what ROFR is. This friend usually just gives people she knows her points every year because she hasn't used it in years. I think they just pay the maintenance fee. I want to say, she paid around $10k for it, years ago. I don't think she is looking to really "make" money on it, she is just looking to get rid of it, but I'm not 100% sure. Obviously, I will have to talk to her about it. She's a super nice person, and wouldn't want any hard feelings with her. I will do alot more research. Thanks for all the great advice.

Just wondering. I understand having to reserve 7 months ahead of time but would it be possible to reserve let's say bay lake dvc (the one at the contemporary) with the 330 points from OKW? If it were possible, how many points would it be for a 1 bedroom at BLV?A 1 BR for a week is anywhere from around 200 to over 450 depending on view and season. The 330 should be about right to get a 1 BR every year for most times and you likely would have enough for a 2 BR every few years instead. I'd be very careful, this is a risk. If it becomes clear your friend thinks it's worth more than what it is, just drop it rather than trying to convince them. Depending on when they bought it may be worth a fair amount less than they paid but it's likely the purchase price was more than you quote, likely around $15-20K. No matter how good of a deal it is, I'd only consider it if it fits into your budget worst case scenario and that includes that you could pay cash for it.

chalee94
04-24-2012, 08:21 PM
Just wondering. I understand having to reserve 7 months ahead of time but would it be possible to reserve let's say bay lake dvc (the one at the contemporary) with the 330 points from OKW? If it were possible, how many points would it be for a 1 bedroom at BLV?

sometimes it's possible to book BLT with OKW pts, sometimes it's not. the BLT owners get first crack at it, so you wait and see what's left over at 7 months. (and sometimes BLT owners want to try other resorts as well, so there's something of a mad scramble when the window opens as owners try to swap resorts.)

if you would not be happy staying at OKW, though, i would not advise buying there.

as i said before, the point charts for the resorts (including OKW and BLT) are linked in the top right hand corner of the screen.

a lake view 1BR at BLT runs 227 pts for 7 nights in september 2013 for example. or 301 pts for 7 nights in july 2013.

I have no idea what ROFR is.

Right Of First Refusal. DVC gets first crack at any firesale-priced contracts. a buyer and seller make a deal...then if DVC likes the terms, they can "step into the buyer's shoes" and take the contract back (and resell it at their prices.)

the intended buyer (you, in this case) would have to start over.

Can a cot be added into the 1 bedroom dvc's?

no cots or rollaway beds at any of the DVCs.

1BRs at OKW, BLT and AKV (except for value rooms at AKV) do allow 5 adults in a 1BR villa as they all have 1 king bed in the master bedroom + 1 queen (i think) pullout sleeper sofa + 1 twin-sized pullout sleeper chair.

other 1BRs unofficially allow 5 adults but you are on your own for bedding and an inflatable mattress or whatever for the 5th adult. any further discussion of occupancy needs to go in this thread as it can be a sensitive topic:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2894661

DizBub
04-24-2012, 08:24 PM
Thanks everyone. I have no idea what ROFR is. This friend usually just gives people she knows her points every year because she hasn't used it in years. I think they just pay the maintenance fee. I want to say, she paid around $10k for it, years ago. I don't think she is looking to really "make" money on it, she is just looking to get rid of it, but I'm not 100% sure. Obviously, I will have to talk to her about it. She's a super nice person, and wouldn't want any hard feelings with her. I will do alot more research. Thanks for all the great advice.

Just wondering. I understand having to reserve 7 months ahead of time but would it be possible to reserve let's say bay lake dvc (the one at the contemporary) with the 330 points from OKW? If it were possible, how many points would it be for a 1 bedroom at BLV?

Just checked Fidelity resales and they have 2 330 point contracts. The 1st one is asking $53 per point = $17,490. The 2nd one they are asking $70 per point = $23,100. (Of course you can offer less depending on how many points are immediately available). This information is just to give you an idea of how much these contracts are going for.

I also checked BLT at the cheapest season and the points for a 1 bedroom are 194 for a standard view, 222 for a lake view and 273 for a Magic Kingdom view.

One of the most expensive times (Spring Break) 268 for standard, 301 for lake view and 363 for MK view. Understand that BLT is really hard to get into even at 7 months.

ROFR is Disney's right of first refusal. When someone buys a resale contract Disney reviews it and if the price is too low they reserve the right to buy it back. I hope I explained that correctly. I'm sure someone more knowledgable will set things right. :laughing:

I hope this helps a little. There is so much to learn before you make that leap.

Sammie
04-24-2012, 09:12 PM
You can use OKW points at all the other DVC resorts but it is subject to what is available at 7 months. There will be times even if you call as soon as they open or go online at 7 months you will not get what you want.

So be sure you would be happy staying at OKW if you were unable to get something at 7 months.

Here are the point charts for each resort so you can see how many it will take at each resort for different time periods and different size accommodations.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/DVCpoints.shtml

Just remember those maintenance fees are every year for the life of the contract, which is a long time.

kandb
04-24-2012, 09:21 PM
Thanks so much for the information. There is no way I am looking at spending $17K for a timeshare. We go now with free dining and I think $17K is alot of money and then would have to pay $1700 in maintenance a year? Just seems like an awful lot of money to me. Will probably stay with a moderate with free dining!

Dean
04-25-2012, 07:21 AM
Thanks so much for the information. There is no way I am looking at spending $17K for a timeshare. We go now with free dining and I think $17K is alot of money and then would have to pay $1700 in maintenance a year? Just seems like an awful lot of money to me. Will probably stay with a moderate with free dining!:lmao:It may end up being a sweetheart deal for you but if it is, DVC may take it ROFR.

chalee94
04-25-2012, 08:06 AM
Will probably stay with a moderate with free dining!:lmao:

yeah - if you're happy with a moderate and looking for deals like free dining, then DVC would probably not be a good value for you...

Mtnman44
04-25-2012, 11:51 AM
Regardless of friend or good price, I would never saddle myself with a large single contract like that. Even if I wanted/needed that many points, I would definately aquire them via multiple smaller contracts. Smaller contracts are much easier to sell, and at a better price. This gives you more options with your ownership and less overall risk.

ELMC
04-25-2012, 12:09 PM
Thanks so much for the information. There is no way I am looking at spending $17K for a timeshare. We go now with free dining and I think $17K is alot of money and then would have to pay $1700 in maintenance a year? Just seems like an awful lot of money to me. Will probably stay with a moderate with free dining!:lmao:

You make a very good point. DVC is a great way to save money on Deluxe accommodations. If you are happy staying at moderates and getting free dining (as many, many people are) then buying DVC will probably seem like an added expense to you with very little value. It sounds like DVC may not be a good fit for you.

Regardless of friend or good price, I would never saddle myself with a large single contract like that. Even if I wanted/needed that many points, I would definately aquire them via multiple smaller contracts. Smaller contracts are much easier to sell, and at a better price. This gives you more options with your ownership and less overall risk.

Great point. One thing to consider, though, is that you can usually buy larger contracts for less. You also have to pay only one closing cost. So although the exit strategy is better for smaller contracts, getting in is also more costly. Two ways to combat this would be to try to negotiate a lower price when buying and to have the seller pay the closing costs when you do buy.

Dean
04-25-2012, 12:48 PM
Regardless of friend or good price, I would never saddle myself with a large single contract like that. Even if I wanted/needed that many points, I would definately aquire them via multiple smaller contracts. Smaller contracts are much easier to sell, and at a better price. This gives you more options with your ownership and less overall risk.Given that smaller contracts add cost, likely around $1500-2000 on this size contract, I think it depends on the situation.

chalee94
04-25-2012, 01:11 PM
Smaller contracts are much easier to sell, and at a better price.

this is true right now.

but in the long run, smaller contracts are headed for zero, too.

Mtnman44
04-25-2012, 02:25 PM
Yep, but the current difference in per point price between small and large contracts is not enough to offset the negatives in owning a large contract. in my opinion at least. 30 to 50 years is a long time. A 300 point contract could be a boat anchor where as 6 50 point contracts would be much easier to offload and currently, seem to sell instantly.

this is true right now.

but in the long run, smaller contracts are headed for zero, too.

Mtnman44
04-25-2012, 02:31 PM
300 points based on a hypothetical $65 per point cost is 19,500 plus $300 closing is $19,800.
300 points based on 3 100 point purchases at $70 per point plus $900 in closing costs is 21,900.

So the difference is $2,100 that is a 10% premium in this hypothetical. Totally worth it to me, all things considered, especially with the 30+ years of costs, it is a tiny fraction in exchange for distinct advantages and reduced risk.

Given that smaller contracts add cost, likely around $1500-2000 on this size contract, I think it depends on the situation.

Dean
04-25-2012, 03:31 PM
300 points based on a hypothetical $65 per point cost is 19,500 plus $300 closing is $19,800.
300 points based on 3 100 point purchases at $70 per point plus $900 in closing costs is 21,900.

So the difference is $2,100 that is a 10% premium in this hypothetical. Totally worth it to me, all things considered, especially with the 30+ years of costs, it is a tiny fraction in exchange for distinct advantages and reduced risk.I think your slightly underestimate the price difference for three contracts over one but the principle stays the same, I think the real difference for your situation is more in the $3-4K range for your stated assumptions all else being equal. Assuming one doesn't plan to sell later, in effect you're paying extra for a potential option that a large % of people will never need. I think you're also classifying a 300 pt contract as large and I would not, I'd look at it as small to medium. I also think that the benefit and demand of smaller contracts will diminish over time due to the resale limitations from a year ago. I doubt that a 10% penalty is worth it for most people, much less 15% or more which I think is more realistic, even though you MIGHT be able to later recoup around half of the difference if you did sell later.

ELMC
04-25-2012, 04:48 PM
300 points based on a hypothetical $65 per point cost is 19,500 plus $300 closing is $19,800.
300 points based on 3 100 point purchases at $70 per point plus $900 in closing costs is 21,900.

So the difference is $2,100 that is a 10% premium in this hypothetical. Totally worth it to me, all things considered, especially with the 30+ years of costs, it is a tiny fraction in exchange for distinct advantages and reduced risk.

Not to nitpick, but your closing cost estimates are a bit off. The 300 point closing would be around $525 and the smaller contract closings would be $425 (x3) for a total of $1275 and a difference of $750. Plus, as Dean said, I think there would be a larger gap between the price per point.

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 06:17 PM
I think we can all agree that in general smaller contract sell for more $/point than larger contracts. So if you can get 4 50 point contracts for the same closing as a 200 point contract, buy the 4 50 point contracts (and they all have the same number of banked/current point).

I have seen resellers offering 2 contracts for 1 closing costs. In that case it would certainly make sense to get the two seperate contracts.

Otherwise figure out the price difference and then decide if that "insurance" premium is worth it.

Myself, I just have medium to large contract (250 up to 400). I wanted the lower upfront costs. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush :)

Dean
04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
I think we can all agree that in general smaller contract sell for more $/point than larger contracts. So if you can get 4 50 point contracts for the same closing as a 200 point contract, buy the 4 50 point contracts (and they all have the same number of banked/current point).

I have seen resellers offering 2 contracts for 1 closing costs. In that case it would certainly make sense to get the two seperate contracts.

Otherwise figure out the price difference and then decide if that "insurance" premium is worth it.

Myself, I just have medium to large contract (250 up to 400). I wanted the lower upfront costs. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush :)

One can do it yourself for under $50 per contract. Timeshare traders will do it all for under $150 per contract but won't do escrow or title ins. I bet they would bundle. Most won't bundle. It's also possible to list multiple ROFR and matching contracts on one paper in some cases.