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View Full Version : Yowza -- did you know this about HHI / SC?


AllieV
04-24-2012, 10:04 AM
I just made an offer on a small hilton head contract and as part of it, I said I'd pay closing and they pay 2012 dues (it's a december contract that's stripped until december). The agent said she needed to let me know that south carolina is an "attorney only" state and closing is about $650 even on the smallest contracts. And she said that's the cheapest she's found by far. I can see why those small contracts just sit there. It adds a ton per point on top of the higher maint dues.

permavac
04-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Wow - I knew it was "more" expensive because I bought an HHI resale in 2008 but back then the closing was in the low 400s. $650 is huge on a small contract!

Terri

Tunseeker1
04-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Yep. The price per point looks great until you add in the closing and the $80 direct starts making sense quick.

permavac
04-24-2012, 12:44 PM
I just made an offer on a small hilton head contract and as part of it, I said I'd pay closing and they pay 2012 dues (it's a december contract that's stripped until december). The agent said she needed to let me know that south carolina is an "attorney only" state and closing is about $650 even on the smallest contracts. And she said that's the cheapest she's found by far. I can see why those small contracts just sit there. It adds a ton per point on top of the higher maint dues.

So are you going ahead with HHI or did the $650 change your mind?

Terri

Sanchez
04-24-2012, 01:05 PM
The attorney fee for most residential closings is between $350 and $500. In the current market many will do them for less. The attorney fees are usually comparible to non-attorney fees in other states but I do not have a specific data.

Is the $650 quote solely for the attorney fee or does it include other closing costs? That is an important question. Does it include recording, title abstract, title insurance?

Others will have to chime in as to their experiences with closing costs in SC and other states.

As an aside, I have not done closings on timeshares for many years. It is a high level of aggravation with minimal fees. As I am not a volume transactional lawyer it made little sense. Lawyers make money on closings by getting title insurance premiums. Most timeshare closings have little or no title insurance.

AllieV
04-24-2012, 01:12 PM
So are you going ahead with HHI or did the $650 change your mind?
The agent said, "do you want to split the closing fees? That's usually how we address this." I replied, "well sure, if they're still willing to pay the 2012 dues and split the closing and take my offer per point." Something tells me they won't, since it's a small contract, but it's been sitting there for over 10 days (maybe much longer; I noticed it about 10 days ago). She didn't say they had other offers or that they'd turned down any offers similar to mine. So maybe they'll feel desperate. I am a bit torn now, though. If I sell this one day, I'll lose a bunch on absorbing the high closing costs one way or another.

AllieV
04-24-2012, 01:15 PM
Is the $650 quote solely for the attorney fee or does it include other closing costs? That is an important question. Does it include recording, title abstract, title insurance?
This is not a language I speak. When they say "closing costs" I assume that means all costs involved in closing this deal. :confused3

permavac
04-24-2012, 01:35 PM
...I am a bit torn now, though. If I sell this one day, I'll lose a bunch on absorbing the high closing costs one way or another.

I hear that! I was planning on selling my 25-pt HHI after getting my other 2 contracts, but with this new info, I guess I will just keep it - the price to sell will probably be too low for my taste...

Terri

Sanchez
04-24-2012, 02:13 PM
This is not a language I speak. When they say "closing costs" I assume that means all costs involved in closing this deal. :confused3

I assume the same but wanted to clarify that if the attorney fee (but one part of closing costs) is $650 the total closing costs would be much more.

I would want to know the total breakdown of closing costs - can you negotiate the attorney fee? Does the estimate include title insurance which you may not need or desire? That will help you make an informed decision. You may want to speak directly with an attorney.

Your initial post seemed to indicate that you were told that the closing costs are higher in SC because you need an attorney. That is usually not the case but others on this forum likely can compare closing costs in non-attorney states.

dcamdad
04-24-2012, 03:13 PM
I just made an offer on a small hilton head contract and as part of it, I said I'd pay closing and they pay 2012 dues (it's a december contract that's stripped until december). The agent said she needed to let me know that south carolina is an "attorney only" state and closing is about $650 even on the smallest contracts. And she said that's the cheapest she's found by far. I can see why those small contracts just sit there. It adds a ton per point on top of the higher maint dues.

I take it this is not a resale thru TSS as their HHI resales show closings costs ranging from $425 for 150 pts to $525 for 350 I think I would get a better clarification of the $650 fee you are being told.

ELMC
04-24-2012, 03:27 PM
Yep. The price per point looks great until you add in the closing and the $80 direct starts making sense quick.

Ok, now I'm just starting to think that you are a DVD employee. We get it, you like buying direct.

tammymacb
04-24-2012, 05:10 PM
I take it this is not a resale thru TSS as their HHI resales show closings costs ranging from $425 for 150 pts to $525 for 350 I think I would get a better clarification of the $650 fee you are being told.

Last time I checked TTS was not following the rules when it comes to HHI closings and were still closing them in Florida.

The OP is correct, though. Timeshares sold in SC are supposed to be closed in SC, so those who buy without following the rules best hope it's not a problem down the road.

Tunseeker1
04-24-2012, 06:00 PM
Ok, now I'm just starting to think that you are a DVD employee. We get it, you like buying direct.

No I don't like buying direct, I just like informed choices. I wanna save money when it makes sense.

I want people to at least realize the total costs on some contracts like this person has.

AllieV
04-24-2012, 08:09 PM
Yep. The price per point looks great until you add in the closing and the $80 direct starts making sense quick.
I don't think Disney sells this for as low as $80 pp. And considering you can buy it easily for $50 pp resale -- and $35-40 if you work it -- it's still less even with high closing costs.

Dean
04-24-2012, 08:28 PM
I just made an offer on a small hilton head contract and as part of it, I said I'd pay closing and they pay 2012 dues (it's a december contract that's stripped until december). The agent said she needed to let me know that south carolina is an "attorney only" state and closing is about $650 even on the smallest contracts. And she said that's the cheapest she's found by far. I can see why those small contracts just sit there. It adds a ton per point on top of the higher maint dues.Talk to the companies that specialize in Timeshare closings like JRA, Timeshare Traders, Resort Closings Inc and Timeshare Transfers. You might want to ask who specializes in SC on somewhere like TUG (Timeshare Users Group). Realizes that at broker may not be willing to work with these companies because of familiarity and often they get a kickback from their usual closing companies. I know JRA does SC with an additional fee due to the requirement mentioned but don't' think they all do. They should all be cheaper than the $650 quoted. They generally don't do escrow or title insurance.

Brownieone
04-24-2012, 10:30 PM
I just bought 50 HHI points and paid $425 closing. You do have to keep that closing cost in mind when you agree to a price ... it really adds up on the smaller contracts.

AllieV
04-24-2012, 10:33 PM
I just bought 50 HHI points and paid $425 closing.
Which broker/seller did you go through?

AllieV
04-26-2012, 03:42 PM
So I put the offer in Monday and as of today hadn't heard anything. I called the realtor who was baffled and would call back. Two hours later, I got a call that the seller heard my offer and decided to take it off the market. :rotfl:

kristenrice
04-26-2012, 06:20 PM
I don't think Disney sells this for as low as $80 pp.

Yes, the current selling price direct from Disney is $80/point at HHI. I don't know what the "real" minimum requirement is for new buyers, though. Everything in Disney's official information indicates that new owners must buy a minimum of 160 points. However, it is also widely reported that people have bought new contracts, direct, for as few as 50 points.

We did our add on of 50 points in January 2011 for a total of $4000 which included the closing fees. Yes, it had to be closed in SC so it took quite a while. Since it was a direct purchase, it didn't really matter since I had the points immediately.

Assuming a 50 point contract with the proper UY ever became available for $55/point, we would have saved about $700 by going resale. It wasn't worth it because we wanted the points and the right contract just wasn't coming available.

Good luck!

ELMC
04-26-2012, 08:58 PM
Yes, the current selling price direct from Disney is $80/point at HHI. I don't know what the "real" minimum requirement is for new buyers, though. Everything in Disney's official information indicates that new owners must buy a minimum of 160 points. However, it is also widely reported that people have bought new contracts, direct, for as few as 50 points.

We did our add on of 50 points in January 2011 for a total of $4000 which included the closing fees. Yes, it had to be closed in SC so it took quite a while. Since it was a direct purchase, it didn't really matter since I had the points immediately.

Assuming a 50 point contract with the proper UY ever became available for $55/point, we would have saved about $700 by going resale. It wasn't worth it because we wanted the points and the right contract just wasn't coming available.

Good luck!

You're right...now that DVC appears to be selling 50 point contracts, the divide between direct and resale becomes much narrower (due to amortizing closing costs, etc.). Your savings per point may not be multiplied by enough points to make it worth trying to find a resale.

Dean
04-26-2012, 09:04 PM
You're right...now that DVC appears to be selling 50 point contracts, the divide between direct and resale becomes much narrower (due to amortizing closing costs, etc.). Your savings per point may not be multiplied by enough points to make it worth trying to find a resale.Remember that DVD also charges closing for new buyers though often less than for a broker based resale.

ELMC
04-26-2012, 09:08 PM
Remember that DVD also charges closing for new buyers though often less than for a broker based resale.

True...but my understanding was that it is like $60 for a 50 point contract as opposed to $325-$425 for resale (depending on the broker).

Dean
04-26-2012, 09:42 PM
True...but my understanding was that it is like $60 for a 50 point contract as opposed to $325-$425 for resale (depending on the broker).I don't know the numbers for 50 pts and I'm not sure we've seen enough to know that this is actually happening or will be for any length of time. I seem to recall around $225 for a normal starting contract. I can get any contract transferred for WDW for under $60 but the brokers wouldn't be willing to go that route, you'd need to find a private seller. My point was for one to look at the numbers, it's not zero vs several hundred.

AllieV
04-27-2012, 10:20 AM
So I put in an offer on another small contract but the agent says it's been listed since early March and generally people who've had them on a while tend not to respond quickly or at all, especially if they don't want the offer.

The agent also said that two properties at HHI have been ROFRd this month where the offer was the same as mine and accepted ($39 pp). They've never ROFRd their HHI properties before, so this was surprising to them. I may look over the offer and up it a buck or two (it's a small contract) and make it up elsewhere.

I also learned from this agent that Disney never touches a property in a bankruptcy. It's too much paperwork. That's where the best deals are for us little buyers, though, assuming we don't mind waiting for the judge's approval. The owner doesn't care how much they get and Disney won't take it back.

I have found my new target.

AllieV
04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
p.s. I did ask about the $648 covering everything including title insurance, etc, and yes it does. The attorney alone is $325 which ups the entire cost.

Mick West
04-27-2012, 02:42 PM
I live in SC and own at HHI. SC is an attorney state but like everything else, that is a negotiable charge/rate. I bought my HHI resale and didnt hesitate to tell the company that I'd get a closing attorney if need be. I paid more than I really wanted to but the attorney fee ended up around $250.

lmb
04-27-2012, 04:16 PM
We just signed a contract for a 50 pts HHI contract and I spoke to several agents before we made the offer. Seems like they are offering 2 prices for HHi contracts; 1 is 375-425 with no title insurance and the other is 600-800 with title insurance. The agent said that title issues would generally be disovered by DVC during ROFR anyway so we just opted for the 375 no title insurance closing cost. Hope this helps!

Brownieone
04-28-2012, 09:32 PM
which broker/seller did you go through?

tss

KS_Disney_Dad
04-28-2012, 11:26 PM
We bought 25 points last year and I don't remember point cost but closing was $425. We are also listed in the Beaufort County website as owners. We used TSS.

bears163
04-29-2012, 08:47 PM
Wow 650 is alot

AllieV
04-30-2012, 09:44 AM
375-425 with no title insurance and the other is 600-800 with title insurance.
Thanks, I asked the agent and was told they always do title insurance because it protects the buyer. But if those things are discovered by Disney, yeah I could see dropping it. I was informed title insurance is "only" $125-$150, hahaha.

On another HHI note, I thought long and hard about the possibility of HHI being spun off and me being stuck with points there, albeit a small amount. I looked at pics and thought it wouldn't be so bad to go there every 3rd summer if I had to.

Then I thought about DVC having a new head CEO and the postcard I got from them luring into buying 8 years after I toured, and the rash of recent buy backs (my own hypothesis being they are protecting their sell price by not letting resale go too low). It occurred to me bright as day that there's NO WAY they'd spin out HH or the other florida one (VB?). It would totally crash their values and Disney is all about keeping those values up high. There would be a much smaller market to sell to, meaning they could get stuck without enough dues-paying customers. No, keeping them in the system with the orlando timeshares makes much more sense to me.

Dean
04-30-2012, 05:25 PM
Thanks, I asked the agent and was told they always do title insurance because it protects the buyer. But if those things are discovered by Disney, yeah I could see dropping it. I was informed title insurance is "only" $125-$150, hahaha.

On another HHI note, I thought long and hard about the possibility of HHI being spun off and me being stuck with points there, albeit a small amount. I looked at pics and thought it wouldn't be so bad to go there every 3rd summer if I had to.

Then I thought about DVC having a new head CEO and the postcard I got from them luring into buying 8 years after I toured, and the rash of recent buy backs (my own hypothesis being they are protecting their sell price by not letting resale go too low). It occurred to me bright as day that there's NO WAY they'd spin out HH or the other florida one (VB?). It would totally crash their values and Disney is all about keeping those values up high. There would be a much smaller market to sell to, meaning they could get stuck without enough dues-paying customers. No, keeping them in the system with the orlando timeshares makes much more sense to me.I think it's unlikely VB and HH exit but it is truly possible. One thing I learned a long time ago with timeshares is to not make too many assumptions in a positive way. Always assume the worst and hope for the best. I've seen 9 timeshares exit the Marriott system with many others in the know telling me it'd never happen. As for title insurance I know many here disagree with my assertion that it's a waste of money with DVC in most sistuations. The chances of something not showing up in the sales process is so low that the price is unreasonable even when fairly low. Now if something does come up like a bankruptcy or divorce situation, that can swing the benefit to make it reasonable if not necessary. SC and WDW are easy to research but other locations might not be. One should always look at the specifics of a given situation but in the absence of a specific concern and assuming market rates, title insurance is not a reasonable cost, IMO.

ELMC
04-30-2012, 06:43 PM
I think it's unlikely VB and HH exit but it is truly possible. One thing I learned a long time ago with timeshares is to not make too many assumptions in a positive way. Always assume the worst and hope for the best. I've seen 9 timeshares exit the Marriott system with many others in the know telling me it'd never happen. As for title insurance I know many here disagree with my assertion that it's a waste of money with DVC in most sistuations. The chances of something not showing up in the sales process is so low that the price is unreasonable even when fairly low. Now if something does come up like a bankruptcy or divorce situation, that can swing the benefit to make it reasonable if not necessary. SC and WDW are easy to research but other locations might not be. One should always look at the specifics of a given situation but in the absence of a specific concern and assuming market rates, title insurance is not a reasonable cost, IMO.

Thanks for this post, Dean. I had always wondered that with all the due diligence that the brokers and Disney do during the process whether or not title insurance was really worth it. Interesting perspective. Thanks.