PDA

View Full Version : When does direct make sense?


arthur06
04-22-2012, 09:00 PM
I am looking for under 100 points Dec UY for VGC. (Mods edit if needed)

I know VGC is small, and resales are are tough to find. Add in the fact that its a certain UY and a small contract. Does it just makes sense to go on the WL for VGC points?

I see VGC is $130 pp direct and roughly $80 to $100 resale. Is it just worth the extra money to buy that direct?

k3chantal
04-22-2012, 09:16 PM
I think it makes sense to buy direct if you want your points to be unrestricted or if you want a specific resort or amount of points that can only be found direct and you are unwilling or unable to wait.
There are many people on these boards who will let you know that it is not the best use of points to exchange them with RCI or for DCL but my personal experience has been very positive with doing both of those things and I would have missed out on two very wonderful vacations if I hadn't used my points for Hawaii or my cruise.

disneynutz
04-22-2012, 09:20 PM
It makes sense if you want to finance or if you can't find the contract resale.

Do you need additional points at VGC or is buying at WDW a consideration?

:earsboy: Bill

arthur06
04-22-2012, 09:21 PM
I think it makes sense to buy direct if you want your points to be unrestricted or if you want a specific resort or amount of points that can only be found direct and you are unwilling or unable to wait.
There are many people on these boards who will let you know that it is not the best use of points to exchange them with RCI or for DCL but my personal experience has been very positive with doing both of those things and I would have missed out on two very wonderful vacations if I hadn't used my points for Hawaii or my cruise.

I don't really care to use them for cruising or RCI.

I am looking for enough points to get to DL about every 2-3 years.

delmar411
04-22-2012, 09:23 PM
I would consider all the resale costs including the closing costs and then divide that out to see what it costs per point. It may be a very small amount extra per point to buy direct. If that was the case then I'd consider just going direct.

arthur06
04-22-2012, 09:25 PM
It makes sense if you want to finance or if you can't find the contract resale.

Do you need additional points at VGC or is buying at WDW a consideration?

:earsboy: Bill

I really wanted these points for trips to DLR.

If I could find the right resale at BWV's I would just go for that. I just don't monitor the resale sites that much to watch resales. I probably would find something quickly if I looked at them daily.

I could get 60 points for $130 per point at VGC or 130 points at $60 per point at most WDW DVC's and spend the same amount of money.

I am at the "I'm about ready to add on stage"

kristenrice
04-22-2012, 10:24 PM
It made sense for us to add-on direct at HHI to end the frustration of finding the right resale. We knew we wanted between 50-80 points with a Feb UY. After checking almost daily for MONTHS, I figured that the extra money involved to buy direct was worth it to get it over with.

I called our guide right around January 22, 2011 (with a Feb UY), placed our deposit, and had 50 points in our account the next day. I called and had them banked so on Feb 1, I had 100 points available. The 2010 points were free from MF's too since we were already in Feb...and the 2011's MF's were prorated by a few days.

We ended up spending $80/pt ($4000 total) for our 50-pt contract. *If* we would have found a resale contract in the $50/pt range, we would have saved about $800 once you figure in closing costs. I feel that the $800 was worth it since I essentially got a "loaded" contract. I know that those 2010 points weren't "bonus" points, but I was able to bank them with less than a week left in my UY which is a very tangible benefit.

KAT4DISNEY
04-22-2012, 10:39 PM
For 100 points you'll probably be paying about $30 more per point for VGC if you go direct once you factor in closing costs. But, the problem could be finding the Dec. UY. Then it's deciding of $3,000 is worth the possible ease of going direct but since that may be a waitlist it's not even a cut and dried decision that way. :rolleyes1

juncker
04-23-2012, 10:58 AM
One plus that I could see of buying direct would be that you get to specify the UY and size of the contracts. If I were in the market for a 200 point contract, I would look into 4 separate 50 point contracts instead. The closing costs could go up (I'm not sure of this), but you would have flexibility in the future to downsize just 50 points if you need. Smaller contracts also seem to sell extremely fast and at higher price per point, so I think it would increase the value of your contracts.

With that said, we bought resale solely based upon price. I don't think that it is worth the extra money.

Mtnman44
04-23-2012, 11:12 AM
small contracts of harder to find resorts may be one example that makes sense to buy direct but it still comes at a pretty significant cost.

Even a small contract of 50 points, if you pay $35 per point over the resale rate to buy direct, that adds an extra $1,750 to your purchase cost. Over the long haul, that $1,750 doesn't make a huge difference but it does sting a bit in the short term.

However, a 50 to 100 point contract at GCV isn't going to come around on the market very often (and will have lots of buyers), and even less so in your desired use year so buying direct may be the most practical option in this scenario.

KAT4DISNEY
04-23-2012, 11:51 AM
I don't really care to use them for cruising or RCI.

I am looking for enough points to get to DL about every 2-3 years.

You might want to call your guide and see if VGC points are available in your UY and if not get on the waitlist. You can keep looking for resale but at least you'll get yourself in line for points when they become available direct and you can back out if you change your mind.

One plus that I could see of buying direct would be that you get to specify the UY and size of the contracts. If I were in the market for a 200 point contract, I would look into 4 separate 50 point contracts instead. The closing costs could go up (I'm not sure of this), but you would have flexibility in the future to downsize just 50 points if you need. Smaller contracts also seem to sell extremely fast and at higher price per point, so I think it would increase the value of your contracts.

With that said, we bought resale solely based upon price. I don't think that it is worth the extra money.

I've changed my stance that small contracts make as much sense as they used to - unless you definitely want the ease of downsizing at a later date. Back when closing cost were paid by Disney it made more sense but now you will pay more upfront both direct or resale. Then when you go to sell there are fees per contract so even though you can get a few dollars more per contract you'll pay more to sell. I split all our direct contracts and sold a few of them last year. What I decided after that is unless I needed to add on just a small amount of points I would not split anything into less than 100 pt contracts. It's not worth the hassle and cost IMO.

montrealdisneylovers
04-23-2012, 11:58 AM
You might want to call your guide and see if VGC points are available in your UY and if not get on the waitlist. You can keep looking for resale but at least you'll get yourself in line for points when they become available direct and you can back out if you change your mind.



I've changed my stance that small contracts make as much sense as they used to - unless you definitely want the ease of downsizing at a later date. Back when closing cost were paid by Disney it made more sense but now you will pay more upfront both direct or resale. Then when you go to sell there are fees per contract so even though you can get a few dollars more per contract you'll pay more to sell. I split all our direct contracts and sold a few of them last year. What I decided after that is unless I needed to add on just a small amount of points I would not split anything into less than 100 pt contracts. It's not worth the hassle and cost IMO.

What do you mean by this "I split all our direct contracts". Can one actually split say a 100 point contract into 2 50 point contracts. I am thinking no but perhaps I am missing something.

KAT4DISNEY
04-23-2012, 12:08 PM
What do you mean by this "I split all our direct contracts". Can one actually split say a 100 point contract into 2 50 point contracts. I am thinking no but perhaps I am missing something.

Yes, you can. The first contract I did that on was AKV - I split our 100 points into 48 and 52. That made sense at the time before reallocations started! ;) I also have a 30/35/45 split with BLT. But now you will be charged closing fees per contract wheras a few years ago DVC did not make you pay the closing costs. Then they began charging new purchasers but current owners could still add on without paying closing. Then it changed to all contracts pay closing.

Often on the initial purchase DVC would make you get one contract at the minimum (say 160 pts) and then you could split up the rest. But some buyers were even able to split up their initial buy in. That seemed to vary guide to guide.

montrealdisneylovers
04-23-2012, 12:18 PM
Thank you so much for that info!!! :worship:

We have 260 points split between 100 and 160 points. We were thinking we needed to add on another 60 points direct so that it would be equal for our 2 daughters in the future. We thought direct because our 2 contracts were purchased before the changes and we wanted things to be equal (another consideration for buying direct vs resale today).

As we want to add them to our deeds when the second turns 18 (so they can have blue membership cards and get all the perks when travelling without us) we will be able to split the 160 point contract into 100, 30 and 30 at the same time. We would have had to pay closing costs anyhow so we can kill two birds with one stone (awful expression) !!!:thumbsup2

These boards are amazing and can provide a wealth of information!!

KAT4DISNEY
04-23-2012, 12:24 PM
Thank you so much for that info!!! :worship:

We have 260 points split between 100 and 160 points. We were thinking we needed to add on another 60 points direct so that it would be equal for our 2 daughters in the future. We thought direct because our 2 contracts were purchased before the changes and we wanted things to be equal (another consideration for buying direct vs resale today).

As we want to add them to our deeds when the second turns 18 (so they can have blue membership cards and get all the perks when travelling without us) we will be able to split the 160 point contract into 100, 30 and 30 at the same time. We would have had to pay closing costs anyhow so we can kill two birds with one stone (awful expression) !!!:thumbsup2

These boards are amazing and can provide a wealth of information!!

Let me clarify - you can split at the time of purchase, but not afterwards. :sad2: Since you already own the 160, if I understand correctly, it will have to stay 160. Sorry for the confusion but I was referring to what you can do at the initial date of purchase.

Dean
04-23-2012, 12:34 PM
I am looking for under 100 points Dec UY for VGC. (Mods edit if needed)

I know VGC is small, and resales are are tough to find. Add in the fact that its a certain UY and a small contract. Does it just makes sense to go on the WL for VGC points?

I see VGC is $130 pp direct and roughly $80 to $100 resale. Is it just worth the extra money to buy that direct?IMO it's really a number game. There are none of the other issues (financing, non DVC use or comfort) that should change that. It's really what's the availability and cost both directions. For a new resort or smaller points amount there may not be much availability resale and if there is, the cost difference looked at objectively (points accounting, overpayment on fees) may not give you much benefit resale. There are other financing options for one who chooses to finance (bad choice but one's option) besides DVD's financing. The only other factor that I can think of is when one means you can use the points for a given trip and the other doesn't. Even then generally it's best to go resale and use cash for the interim trip but it does shift the numbers.

montrealdisneylovers
04-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Let me clarify - you can split at the time of purchase, but not afterwards. :sad2: Since you already own the 160, if I understand correctly, it will have to stay 160. Sorry for the confusion but I was referring to what you can do at the initial date of purchase.

I knew it was too good to be true. Thank you anyhow.

dwight16
04-27-2012, 11:11 AM
it really seems that the market is thin for the cheaper point at the TSS and resales DVC. i bought my first 160 point contract in 2010 SS for 58 a point. i cant even seem to see a deal like that around anymore. i want to get another 50 to 100 points but i have a bad feeling i am going to need to buy them direct. there are no 100 point contracts out there right now for 60ish a point.

ELMC
04-27-2012, 12:26 PM
it really seems that the market is thin for the cheaper point at the TSS and resales DVC. i bought my first 160 point contract in 2010 SS for 58 a point. i cant even seem to see a deal like that around anymore. i want to get another 50 to 100 points but i have a bad feeling i am going to need to buy them direct. there are no 100 point contracts out there right now for 60ish a point.

Would you consider buying a slightly larger contract if it meant getting a lower price per point?

sanibel93
04-27-2012, 05:15 PM
Ended up having to buy direct after not finding a 25 point contract for UY August at OKW. Looked around for awhile and could not find one, got tired of waiting.

ELMC
04-27-2012, 05:32 PM
Ended up having to buy direct after not finding a 25 point contract for UY August at OKW. Looked around for awhile and could not find one, got tired of waiting.

Probably not a bad decision. Even if you did find one, the odds of it making it through ROFR are not very good right now. Enjoy your new points and the additional vacations they will get you. :)

nunzia
04-27-2012, 06:22 PM
I bought all my points direct for VGC. It made sense to me because when I bought, VGC was new and there were no resale points. It also made sense when I did all my add ons direct since I wanted very specific contract sizes in my same use year and that is very difficult to find resale. Also, when I bought there were no closing costs if you bought direct so that was a big savings on a small contract. I also got all my points on specials for close to 100 pp. I am thinking of adding on and will definately buy direct as I'm again lookiong for certain size contract in my use year. Also, to me, the purchase price isn't the killer, it's the MF so for a small contract it doesn't make that much sense to try and try for the perfect resale, then hope it all works out.

DougEMG
04-27-2012, 10:41 PM
Ended up having to buy direct after not finding a 25 point contract for UY August at OKW. Looked around for awhile and could not find one, got tired of waiting.

That is certainly a good reason to buy direct. I was so close to having an Aug OKW contract then lost it to ROFR

JimMIA
04-28-2012, 07:56 AM
I think it makes sense to buy direct if you want your points to be unrestricted...Personally, I think buying direct to get "unrestricted" points is one of the biggest mistakes anyone could make.

First of all, the restricted uses of those points are not good values generally. Sure, if you want to use points occasionally for one of those things, fine. But to pay DOUBLE for your purchase for that purpose fails the "makes sense" test for me.

Even more important, those restricted uses are NOT GUARANTEED to direct purchasers. They are current benefits, which could be removed at any time with one swipe of the Mouse's pen. To pay DOUBLE for something that could go away on a marketing kid's whim is really dumb...IMHO.
There are many people on these boards who will let you know that it is not the best use of points to exchange them with RCI or for DCL but my personal experience has been very positive with doing both of those things.. and I would have missed out on two very wonderful vacations if I hadn't used my points for Hawaii or my cruise.There are also a lot of people on these boards who don't know what the restrictions really are. RCI is not restricted for ANY owner, no matter how you purchase.

A resale owner could get the same Hawaii exchange you got. And an owner of a different timeshare could get it much easier with dozens more choices.

crisi
04-28-2012, 08:27 AM
I think the small add on is probably the only good reason to buy direct. They can be hard to find resale. They tend to have a price premium resale. And because you aren't buying many points, the difference doesn't multiply out into a substantial figure.

Dean
04-28-2012, 08:33 AM
I think the small add on is probably the only good reason to buy direct. They can be hard to find resale. They tend to have a price premium resale. And because you aren't buying many points, the difference doesn't multiply out into a substantial figure.I agree, this has always been the case. Sometimes the specifics will affect the exact break point which is currently in the 50 pt range for most options I suspect. The other reasons to buy might be for a specific option you can't find otherwise and for a new resort that one values. The only other possible situation is with a discount such as the CM discount though I think it'd need to be the 25% and not 15% to move the needle.

ELMC
04-28-2012, 09:25 AM
I think the small add on is probably the only good reason to buy direct. They can be hard to find resale. They tend to have a price premium resale. And because you aren't buying many points, the difference doesn't multiply out into a substantial figure.

I agree. And when you add in the difference between resale closing costs and direct closing costs, it narrows the gap by an additional 5-10%.

dwight16
04-28-2012, 10:37 AM
its just not like it was during the rescission when tons of people were during to dump their time shares. i am on the look out for 100 points max to add on and its dry out there.

bakerworld
04-29-2012, 06:28 AM
Personally, I think buying direct to get "unrestricted" points is one of the biggest mistakes anyone could make.

First of all, the restricted uses of those points are not good values generally. Sure, if you want to use points occasionally for one of those things, fine. But to pay DOUBLE for your purchase for that purpose fails the "makes sense" test for me.

Even more important, those restricted uses are NOT GUARANTEED to direct purchasers. They are current benefits, which could be removed at any time with one swipe of the Mouse's pen. To pay DOUBLE for something that could go away on a marketing kid's whim is really dumb...IMHO.
There are also a lot of people on these boards who don't know what the restrictions really are. RCI is not restricted for ANY owner, no matter how you purchase.

A resale owner could get the same Hawaii exchange you got. And an owner of a different timeshare could get it much easier with dozens more choices.

Some of the re-sale pricing I do not understand - there was a stripped contract (no pts until 2014) and the seller thought $70 was a good price. In that case, buying direct would be optimal. :surfweb:

Dean
04-29-2012, 07:29 AM
Some of the re-sale pricing I do not understand - there was a stripped contract (no pts until 2014) and the seller thought $70 was a good price. In that case, buying direct would be optimal. :surfweb:Possibly, if those 2 options were the only choices. In this case the best option is actually the one not listed, look for a better contract.

ETA: there have been some contracts on ebay recently as well. One that just sold was for 270 VWL points, a bankruptcy sale. No points until Dec 2013 but buyer has to pay the current (past due) fees plus next years fees, an overpayment of 2 years of dues and loss of current UY and the 2012 UY points as well. It sold for around $30 a point but by the time you add in the other costs it's between $40-50 a point depending on how you value it, it's too much with a bankruptcy situation, IMO. Interesting that it was originally listed and "sold" for significantly more then relisted within about 2-3 days. I'm pretty sure it was shill bidding the first round.