PDA

View Full Version : How many contract have you lost to ROFR


DougEMG
04-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Was just curious to see how many contracts people have lost to ROFR as I'm wondering if I've set a record or something losing 3 OKW contracts to ROFR in the last month. :crazy2::scared::confused3

I also officially given up on trying to buy any more OKW contracts resale.

disneynutz
04-20-2012, 07:04 PM
A couple of years ago Disney was very active, picking up most of the resorts if they were priced too low. That's why resale prices were higher, people didn't want to get ROFRed.

:earsboy: Bill

Deb & Bill
04-20-2012, 07:39 PM
Never been ROFR'd, but I bet I'm the only seller to sell a contract twice and have both buyer back out after ROFR passed. Plus, I still own the contract.

Homemom
04-20-2012, 07:39 PM
I lost 2 for VGC since last June. My third one actually passed this month!

permavac
04-20-2012, 09:09 PM
Right now (as of today!), I'm 1 ROFR for 3. I own one contract bought years ago and I'll find out by next week if the other one slips through my fingers too... I'm definitely getting back in the saddle if it does - I just KNOW DVC can't take ALL the resales!

Terri

DougEMG
04-20-2012, 09:18 PM
Never been ROFR'd, but I bet I'm the only seller to sell a contract twice and have both buyer back out after ROFR passed. Plus, I still own the contract.

Wow, wouldn't they have lost their deposit?

Deb & Bill
04-20-2012, 10:07 PM
Wow, wouldn't they have lost their deposit?

Yes, both did and I got half of each of the deposits.

ELMC
04-20-2012, 10:23 PM
Yes, both did and I got half of each of the deposits.

Man, how do I get in on that deal. I wouldn't mind "not selling" my contracts for a free $500 each year. :)

Goofy DVC
04-21-2012, 08:51 AM
I guess we've been lucky. We are 2 for 2 in getting the contracts we put in offers, one OKW and one BCV. Both went through but we waited forever to hear back on the BCV contract. At least it fealt like forever.

AllieV
04-25-2012, 11:22 AM
I think Doug hit the glass ceiling of dvc points. They're not letting him stockpile any more contracts.

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 11:29 AM
I think Doug hit the glass ceiling of dvc points. They're not letting him stockpile any more contracts.

I've got 2 more contracts going to ROFR this week and they are NOT for OKW (for BWV & SSR) this time, so am keeping my fingers crossed.

bwvBound
04-25-2012, 11:38 AM
We lost two in 2004 but before either contract hit Disney for ROFR. In both cases, the seller backed out somewhere between [accepting our offer] ... [signing the paperwork]. Oh, well.

Here is "GOOD LUCK!!!" on your two contracts, DougEMG!

ELMC
04-25-2012, 01:03 PM
I think Doug hit the glass ceiling of dvc points. They're not letting him stockpile any more contracts.

I think he's still a few points away from that. C'mon Disney, let the man vacation for crying out loud! :)

AllieV
04-25-2012, 02:09 PM
I've got 2 more contracts going to ROFR this week and they are NOT for OKW (for BWV & SSR) this time, so am keeping my fingers crossed.
Maybe there's a rule similar to owning stock in a company that if you own a majority (or a lot) you get a seat on the board. Disney didn't want you being able to call the shots on redecorating :goodvibes

Missyrose
04-25-2012, 04:02 PM
Maybe there's a rule similar to owning stock in a company that if you own a majority (or a lot) you get a seat on the board. Disney didn't want you being able to call the shots on redecorating :goodvibes

Trust me, Doug hasn't even come close to the ceiling. There are folks on other forums that own between 7,000 and 8,000 points. :scared1: I doubt he registers on Disney's radar. Doug, resume your stockpiling. ;)

princessaloha
04-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Sorry, practicing multi-quoting and this looks like the perfect place for that. Hope this works.

I've got 2 more contracts going to ROFR this week and they are NOT for OKW (for BWV & SSR) this time, so am keeping my fingers crossed.

Maybe there's a rule similar to owning stock in a company that if you own a majority (or a lot) you get a seat on the board. Disney didn't want you being able to call the shots on redecorating :goodvibes

Question: Since DougEMG is trying to become DVC's next head decorator ;), Doug, could you give us a peak into some of your decorating visions for some of the resorts. Which we should call DDV's (Doug's Decorating Visions). Maybe something revolving around the villains of Disney. I believe they (the villains) are an under-represented population.:goodvibes

ETA: woo hoo! Multi-quoting...check! Now for a siggy line with animation.

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 04:50 PM
Question: Since DougEMG is trying to become DVC's next head decorator ;), Doug, could you give us a peak into some of your decorating visions for some of the resorts.

I'm totally clueless on this topic. :confused3

The last two months have seen me very busy trying to buy more points. I want to be able to stay for 1-2 months at WDW when I retire, so need lots of points for that. Hence my posts are mainly to do with getting the best price possible.

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 05:00 PM
Trust me, Doug hasn't even come close to the ceiling. There are folks on other forums that own between 7,000 and 8,000 points. :scared1: I doubt he registers on Disney's radar. Doug, resume your stockpiling. ;)

Owning that many points would be way to scary for me. I couldn't afford the MF and would be totally dependent on renting to cover the majority of the MF.

My target is around 1,500 points. My plan is to rent out enough points to cover all the MF and then use the rest myself. If I can't do that, at least I can still afford to pay all the MF myself, it will just mean I'll be spending a lot of time at WDW each year.

If my next 2 contracts pass ROFR, I'll definitely stop buying more points. Although if BLT had a big drop in price in 4-5 years I might be tempted to buy there :)

princessaloha
04-25-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm totally clueless on this topic. :confused3

The last two months have seen me very busy trying to buy more points. I want to be able to stay for 1-2 months at WDW when I retire, so need lots of points for that. Hence my posts are mainly to do with getting the best price possible.

My apologies Doug, I was just kidding. AllieV's little tease made me smile and I was jumping in. I meant it in good fun but guess I missed the train completely. Please accept my humble apologies. Guess I'm not good at verbal repartee'.

Have a beautiful day and good luck with all your contracts!

Deb & Bill
04-25-2012, 07:05 PM
Owning that many points would be way to scary for me. I couldn't afford the MF and would be totally dependent on renting to cover the majority of the MF.

My target is around 1,500 points. My plan is to rent out enough points to cover all the MF and then use the rest myself. If I can't do that, at least I can still afford to pay all the MF myself, it will just mean I'll be spending a lot of time at WDW each year.

If my next 2 contracts pass ROFR, I'll definitely stop buying more points. Although if BLT had a big drop in price in 4-5 years I might be tempted to buy there :)

Be very careful with extreme renting. DVC is looking for commercial renters so they can shut them down. Be careful.

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 07:08 PM
My apologies Doug, I was just kidding. AllieV's little tease made me smile and I was jumping in. I meant it in good fun but guess I missed the train completely. Please accept my humble apologies. Guess I'm not good at verbal repartee'.

Have a beautiful day and good luck with all your contracts!

I got you were kidding, just couldn't think of anything witty to say back...so had to settle for being serious. ;)

ELMC
04-25-2012, 08:13 PM
Be very careful with extreme renting. DVC is looking for commercial renters so they can shut them down. Be careful.

But isn't he safe as long as he stays below the 20 reservations per year? Or is that just a rough guideline and they actually have other ways to determine what a commercial renter is?

DougEMG
04-25-2012, 09:19 PM
Be very careful with extreme renting. DVC is looking for commercial renters so they can shut them down. Be careful.


I'm pretty sure that doing 700-800 points a year renting over 4-6 rentals is not extreme nor is it a problem based on my experience renting for the last couple of years.

Joey7295
04-26-2012, 05:51 AM
I had 2 OKW contracts ROFR'd earlier in the year.

Joey7295
04-26-2012, 05:56 AM
Sorry they were ROFR'd back in Sept/Oct. Boy does time fly.

blaze1599
04-26-2012, 09:43 AM
Just got an email this morning that we had our 3 OKW contract get bought by Disney. I am not sure what the deal is and all 3 had different use years as well as point totals. Beginning to think that since we originally talk to Disney about a direct purchase that now our name is flagged and we are doomed not to get one on the resale market. Might try again once the summer is over and less peopel travelling.

Good luck to everyone!

permavac
04-26-2012, 11:42 AM
Just got an email this morning that we had our 3 OKW contract get bought by Disney. I am not sure what the deal is and all 3 had different use years as well as point totals. Beginning to think that since we originally talk to Disney about a direct purchase that now our name is flagged and we are doomed not to get one on the resale market. Might try again once the summer is over and less peopel travelling.

Good luck to everyone!

Wow - all 3 at once? Sorry for you first of all! Guess sales direct through Disney are really strong right now...?

Terri

DougEMG
04-26-2012, 12:11 PM
Just got an email this morning that we had our 3 OKW contract get bought by Disney. I am not sure what the deal is and all 3 had different use years as well as point totals. Beginning to think that since we originally talk to Disney about a direct purchase that now our name is flagged and we are doomed not to get one on the resale market. Might try again once the summer is over and less peopel travelling.

Good luck to everyone!

Och, that really hurts. After I lost my 3 OKW contracts I stopped looking at OKW and now have a BWV & SSR contract about to go to ROFR either today or tomorrow. And these contracts while a little more actually work out better for me.

Don't give up, try for a different resort.

ELMC
04-26-2012, 12:20 PM
Just got an email this morning that we had our 3 OKW contract get bought by Disney. I am not sure what the deal is and all 3 had different use years as well as point totals. Beginning to think that since we originally talk to Disney about a direct purchase that now our name is flagged and we are doomed not to get one on the resale market. Might try again once the summer is over and less peopel travelling.

Good luck to everyone!

I don't think that there is any truth to the rumor that if you go on a DVC tour and then buy direct that your name is flagged. That rumor was originally started by one of the more excitable members on here. :) My wife and I went on the tour in November and then bought two resale contracts...one in January and one in February. I even told my salesperson that I was doing it. Both got through ROFR no problem.

Wow - all 3 at once? Sorry for you first of all! Guess sales direct through Disney are really strong right now...?

Terri

Although I'm a big believer in the theory that Disney ROFRs a contract to fill a waitlist order, in the case of OKW I think there is something else going on. Way too many contracts being bought back...it looks a lot like a reacquisition move to me.

Breyean
04-26-2012, 01:02 PM
I don't think that there is any truth to the rumor that if you go on a DVC tour and then buy direct that your name is flagged. That rumor was originally started by one of the more excitable members on here. :) My wife and I went on the tour in November and then bought two resale contracts...one in January and one in February. I even told my salesperson that I was doing it. Both got through ROFR no problem.



Although I'm a big believer in the theory that Disney ROFRs a contract to fill a waitlist order, in the case of OKW I think there is something else going on. Way too many contracts being bought back...it looks a lot like a reacquisition move to me.

The first time I recall this being discussed was soon after I joined the board last year.

Another poster (Homemom) and I were both ROFR'd around the same time, twice, while being on the wait list for points from Disney at VGC. Not just having taken a tour, but on the wait list. And while my contracts were ridiculously low priced, Homemom's were actually priced higher than others that were passing at that time.

The kicker was, in both our cases, our guides called us right when we were ROFR'd. In my case, he called that very night, sounding sort of smug, "Anything new Brian?", and told me my points were coming soon.

So. yes, it's just an urban myth, but since no one knows what DVC uses as the criteria for ROFR, being on a wait list for points could easily be a red flag. I mean, they know you are serious about buying. Why not force you to go through them rather than lose that sale to resale?

gatorgirl02
04-26-2012, 01:24 PM
The first time I recall this being discussed was soon after I joined the board last year.

Another poster (Homemom) and I were both ROFR'd around the same time, twice, while being on the wait list for points from Disney at VGC. Not just having taken a tour, but on the wait list. And while my contracts were ridiculously low priced, Homemom's were actually priced higher than others that were passing at that time.

The kicker was, in both our cases, our guides called us right when we were ROFR'd. In my case, he called that very night, sounding sort of smug, "Anything new Brian?", and told me my points were coming soon.

So. yes, it's just an urban myth, but since no one knows what DVC uses as the criteria for ROFR, being on a wait list for points could easily be a red flag. I mean, they know you are serious about buying. Why not force you to go through them rather than lose that sale to resale?

Ugh, urban myth or not, now I am scared. I received info from DVC earlier this year and then a second time, and I am in the ROFR process with an OKW contract. AHHH, the stress! :scared1:

Blaze - Can I ask what price point you went in at on your three contracts and when you submitted?

TIA!

ELMC
04-26-2012, 01:52 PM
The first time I recall this being discussed was soon after I joined the board last year.

Another poster (Homemom) and I were both ROFR'd around the same time, twice, while being on the wait list for points from Disney at VGC. Not just having taken a tour, but on the wait list. And while my contracts were ridiculously low priced, Homemom's were actually priced higher than others that were passing at that time.

The kicker was, in both our cases, our guides called us right when we were ROFR'd. In my case, he called that very night, sounding sort of smug, "Anything new Brian?", and told me my points were coming soon.

So. yes, it's just an urban myth, but since no one knows what DVC uses as the criteria for ROFR, being on a wait list for points could easily be a red flag. I mean, they know you are serious about buying. Why not force you to go through them rather than lose that sale to resale?

Perhaps I misspoke a bit. This rumor was rekindled recently by a first time buyer who posted a tremendous amount about every step of the experience. It led to a lot of people repeating her speculation. Your story does sound a bit eerie, I'll definitely give you that. I wouldn't put anything past anybody, especially in the timeshare business. I just wish we knew more for certain.

Homemom
04-26-2012, 01:52 PM
The first time I recall this being discussed was soon after I joined the board last year.

Another poster (Homemom) and I were both ROFR'd around the same time, twice, while being on the wait list for points from Disney at VGC. Not just having taken a tour, but on the wait list. And while my contracts were ridiculously low priced, Homemom's were actually priced higher than others that were passing at that time.

The kicker was, in both our cases, our guides called us right when we were ROFR'd. In my case, he called that very night, sounding sort of smug, "Anything new Brian?", and told me my points were coming soon.

So. yes, it's just an urban myth, but since no one knows what DVC uses as the criteria for ROFR, being on a wait list for points could easily be a red flag. I mean, they know you are serious about buying. Why not force you to go through them rather than lose that sale to resale?

Hi Brian! We had our two ROFR'd then tried to go on a tour while at DL this January. We had a horrible guide to say the least. We stated we just wanted to look at the models and get a feel, having only ever stayed once in a DVC studio at VB. We didn't want to waste all her time because we knew we would be going resale. Long story short she called my husband stupid (her exact word) and we left without our scheduled tour. We found out who to call and make our compaints too. I'd like to think we were then put on some type of "don't upset these people anymore :rolleyes1, don't force direct, let them buy resale" kind of list, but in all actuality i'm sure they just had a waitlist to fill for our two that got bought from us. Just happy we finally got one! :cloud9:

Breyean
04-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Hi Brian! We had our two ROFR'd then tried to go on a tour while at DL this January. We had a horrible guide to say the least. We stated we just wanted to look at the models and get a feel, having only ever stayed once in a DVC studio at VB. We didn't want to waste all her time because we knew we would be going resale. Long story short she called my husband stupid (her exact word) and we left without our scheduled tour. We found out who to call and make our compaints too. I'd like to think we were then put on some type of "don't upset these people anymore :rolleyes1, don't force direct, let them buy resale" kind of list, but in all actuality i'm sure they just had a waitlist to fill for our two that got bought from us. Just happy we finally got one! :cloud9:

After our second ROFR we bit the bullet and bought a couple of small contracts direct from Disney. We were bumping up against the window we needed for a family trip in Sep to DLR and really wanted to stay at VCG.

So it worked out. We have that trip, plus another, booked within 7 months using our old OKW points, planned for this year.

I had read you finally got a contract through. Good for you. I'm glad it worked out for you as well.

AllieV
04-26-2012, 03:48 PM
it looks a lot like a reacquisition move to me.
What does this mean? What would they be doing with all those points?

ELMC
04-26-2012, 04:41 PM
What does this mean? What would they be doing with all those points?

My guess? I think they're accumulating them to relaunch a new sales initiative, OKW 45 year contracts. They're in a tough spot right now. All they have to market is AKV (which is having problems due to high fees and location), BLT (expensive) and Aulini (expensive AND off property). And, their new offering is going to be at GF, so it will probably start at a million or so dollars a point. :goodvibes

So they don't really have anything to market to Joe Holiday who wants a reasonably priced DVC membership that is on property (again, not my opinion, but many people complain that AKV is too far removed). I think they're buying back as much of the resort as they possibly can so that they can resell it. But I could be wrong.

dsanner106
04-26-2012, 04:55 PM
We are one for two. Disney seems to go on a buying spree for particular resorts when they need more points for inventory, so maybe that is it.

Drew in Ga

DougEMG
04-26-2012, 06:53 PM
My guess? I think they're accumulating them to relaunch a new sales initiative, OKW 45 year contracts. They're in a tough spot right now. All they have to market is AKV (which is having problems due to high fees and location), BLT (expensive) and Aulini (expensive AND off property). And, their new offering is going to be at GF, so it will probably start at a million or so dollars a point. :goodvibes

So they don't really have anything to market to Joe Holiday who wants a reasonably priced DVC membership that is on property (again, not my opinion, but many people complain that AKV is too far removed). I think they're buying back as much of the resort as they possibly can so that they can resell it. But I could be wrong.

Totally agree...

WsPrincess
04-26-2012, 07:03 PM
My guess? I think they're accumulating them to relaunch a new sales initiative, OKW 45 year contracts. They're in a tough spot right now. All they have to market is AKV (which is having problems due to high fees and location), BLT (expensive) and Aulini (expensive AND off property). And, their new offering is going to be at GF, so it will probably start at a million or so dollars a point. :goodvibes

So they don't really have anything to market to Joe Holiday who wants a reasonably priced DVC membership that is on property (again, not my opinion, but many people complain that AKV is too far removed). I think they're buying back as much of the resort as they possibly can so that they can resell it. But I could be wrong.

I think you might be very right on with this. When we started looking we crossed AKV off the list almost right away. We didn't like the distance. We got really luck with our contract but while we were waiting I watched and read a lot and it does seem there has to be a master plan for OKW points. It just seems like too much all at once. And since they can sell those as extended contracts I am sure Disney sees it as a win for them, especially since some were priced as really good deals.

Joey7295
04-26-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm feeling pretty fortunate to have my contracts pass ROFR pretty recently.

25 OKW (Aug) $55, 25 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts (sub 1/30, passed 2/29)
45 OKW (Aug) $55, 45 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts (sub 1/30, passed 2/29)
40 OKW (Sep) $55, 40 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
40 OKW (Sep) $55, 40 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
70 OKW (Sep) $55, 70 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
100 OKW (Sep) $55, 100 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)

On another note, I am still waiting to close on the contrcats that passed 3/14

permavac
04-26-2012, 08:14 PM
My guess? I think they're accumulating them to relaunch a new sales initiative, OKW 45 year contracts. They're in a tough spot right now. All they have to market is AKV (which is having problems due to high fees and location), BLT (expensive) and Aulini (expensive AND off property). And, their new offering is going to be at GF, so it will probably start at a million or so dollars a point. :goodvibes

So they don't really have anything to market to Joe Holiday who wants a reasonably priced DVC membership that is on property (again, not my opinion, but many people complain that AKV is too far removed). I think they're buying back as much of the resort as they possibly can so that they can resell it. But I could be wrong.

Someone on another board mentioned this. It does seem like a likely scenario.

Terri

ELMC
04-26-2012, 09:03 PM
Someone on another board mentioned this. It does seem like a likely scenario.

Terri

That might have been me. I'm all in on this theory! :goodvibes

DougEMG
04-27-2012, 01:59 AM
I'm feeling pretty fortunate to have my contracts pass ROFR pretty recently.

25 OKW (Aug) $55, 25 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts (sub 1/30, passed 2/29)
45 OKW (Aug) $55, 45 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts (sub 1/30, passed 2/29)
40 OKW (Sep) $55, 40 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
40 OKW (Sep) $55, 40 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
70 OKW (Sep) $55, 70 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)
100 OKW (Sep) $55, 100 banked '10 pts, all '11 & '12 pts, buyer pays closing and mf (sub 2/21, passed 3/14)

On another note, I am still waiting to close on the contrcats that passed 3/14

Interesting. I believe someone else said that apr was the start of the new fiscal year for Disney, which probably means fresh money to buy contracts.

AllieV
04-27-2012, 10:24 AM
I was talking to a selling agent today who said they'd lost two HHI contracts to ROFR this month alone and it's the first they've seen Disney buy back HHI. They were both $38 pp contracts. Also one BWV at $45 pp stripped till 2014 was ROFRd.

The agent said the best deals that Disney won't touch are the ones in bankruptcy. You can get them cheap and Disney doesn't want the hassle. So ask an agent to keep an eye out for those for you.

zavandor
04-27-2012, 10:32 AM
Also one BWV at $45 pp stripped till 2014 was ROFRd.

:scared1:
I thought that stripped contract were safe from ROFR since Disney should wait that the contract reloads before being able to sell it. It would not make sense financially, but I was clearly wrong.
I'm getting happier every day that I bought a few months ago, it seems that Disney is back on ROFR once again lately.

disneynutz
04-27-2012, 10:36 AM
I was talking to a selling agent today who said they'd lost two HHI contracts to ROFR this month alone and it's the first they've seen Disney buy back HHI. They were both $38 pp contracts. Also one BWV at $45 pp stripped till 2014 was ROFRd.

The agent said the best deals that Disney won't touch are the ones in bankruptcy. You can get them cheap and Disney doesn't want the hassle. So ask an agent to keep an eye out for those for you.

It's all about the numbers and Disney's plans. Many forget that for Disney, everything is just business, no emotion, no magic, just numbers.

They have to maintain enough inventory to keep DVD busy selling. If they run out of inventory, they aren't making money.

:earsboy: Bill

DougEMG
04-27-2012, 11:49 AM
I was talking to a selling agent today who said they'd lost two HHI contracts to ROFR this month alone and it's the first they've seen Disney buy back HHI. They were both $38 pp contracts. Also one BWV at $45 pp stripped till 2014 was ROFRd.


I never would have thought that Disney would take a stripped contract back with ROFR. How can they sell a contract that has no points till 2014? Don't they have to get you the current UY points? I'm confused now.

ELMC
04-27-2012, 01:25 PM
I'm never would have thought that Disney would take a stripped contract back with ROFR. How can they sell a contract that has no points till 2014? Don't they have to get you the current UY points? I'm confused now.

Maybe their unknown master plan extends well out into the future. My prediction, after the huge wave of resale extended OKW contracts, we will start to see BWV extended contracts.

Think about it...with 20 years left on contracts, people are going to start to get nervous. With 10 years left they're all going to hit the panic button. At 5 years, the sky will undoubtedly be falling. If I were the head of DVC, I would try to get out in front of these issues before they become problems.

AllieV
04-27-2012, 02:48 PM
I never would have thought that Disney would take a stripped contract back with ROFR. How can they sell a contract that has no points till 2014? Don't they have to get you the current UY points? I'm confused now.
My uneducated guess would be that it was because it was selling at $45 per point. The agent told me these two bits of information because a) I was offering $39 pp on HHI so I should know that it could be ROFRd since two prior ones just were at that price, and b) I'd mentioned the stripped-till-'14 BCV I'd seen and wondered if they'd take $50 pp and if it would pass.

Missyrose
04-27-2012, 03:11 PM
My uneducated guess would be that it was because it was selling at $45 per point. The agent told me these two bits of information because a) I was offering $39 pp on HHI so I should know that it could be ROFRd since two prior ones just were at that price, and b) I'd mentioned the stripped-till-'14 BCV I'd seen and wondered if they'd take $50 pp and if it would pass.

But it makes no sense for Disney, they have to pay the MFs on those points until the contract has points Disney can sell.

princessaloha
04-27-2012, 05:04 PM
ELMC said: Maybe their unknown master plan extends well out into the future. My prediction, after the huge wave of resale extended OKW contracts, we will start to see BWV extended contracts.

Think about it...with 20 years left on contracts, people are going to start to get nervous. With 10 years left they're all going to hit the panic button. At 5 years, the sky will undoubtedly be falling. If I were the head of DVC, I would try to get out in front of these issues before they become problems.
___

Here's my two cents. Which is probably not worth even that much.

In 2042 OKW will be an aging resort when (currently) most contracts will be ending. Ending contracts mean ending Maintenance Fees. I think Disney is in a bind since few people jumped on their extension offer. I think they have a number/percentage of ownership needed to break even/operating costs to maintain OKW. I think they are going to actively buy back until they reach their numbers. They are probably starting with the lower contracts and will eventually take higher ones until they reach that magical number or close to it. After that they will slow down or stop because in my opinion, they don't need ALL the contracts, which would be expensive. Just enough to guarantee basic maintenance after 2042. Eventually ALL the original contracts will end in 2042, revert back to Disney for FREE, then they can repackage them and sell them direct.

This will also have added benefits for Disney.

1.I think there is some concern with the huge pricing gap between all the resort direct vs resale and especially the soon to be released GF. I think they realize people will start offering/accepting higher prices for OKW now due to concern about lower contracts being ROFR thus closing that gap from resale to direct for OKW and of course GF.

2. I think that most people aren't aware of DVC until they are in the park and jump in hook, line and sinker. Few go home and spend months researching other options. Even the ones who do, still run into the problem that if they don't search for the term "resale" specifically, they almost always will be directed back to Disney direct. So what happens when someone wants to buy but can't afford GF or even BLT direct prices. Disney still wants to make a sell, so how about a lower point resort like OKW at only $100 pp! What a deal. And hey they have plenty in inventory now.

Now the question I'm asking is: How will this affect the prices for OKW non-extended contracts down the road, say in 3-5 years when there are a plethora of extended contracts (considering that with only a few extended contracts to be had right now and they are only about $10-15 more than non-extended)?

As for BWV, well I think there's still time for that as Disney probably wants to see how things go with this current OKW situation.

Again, just my two cents.

Tunseeker1
04-27-2012, 05:54 PM
Disney can take a stripped contract and put developer points or one use points in the contract to resell it direct. They look at it as a cheap contract, and they can close the deal cheaper then a reseller's title company.

KSL
04-29-2012, 05:55 PM
Yikes! I didn't realize Disney would be able to add developer or one-time-use points onto a stripped contract, though I did wonder whether anything like that were possible. We're awaiting ROFR on a stripped contract, and now I'm feeling more nervous! I had been hoping we'd make it through since it has nearly no points until 2014. Well, we'll see... Still about 2 weeks to go....

AllieV
04-29-2012, 06:13 PM
Ksl what is the price per point on that contract? I saw a few stripped ones I'm trying to price.

nolanboys
04-29-2012, 08:28 PM
Interesting thread. I also agree with the OKW theory. Until the announce another DVC property, the pickings are slim and expensive. They could put a great spin on repackaging OKW points for those that are looking for a cheaper price per point buy in.

KSL
04-30-2012, 09:46 AM
AllieV asked: Ksl what is the price per point on that contract? I saw a few stripped ones I'm trying to price.

Someone else asked me on a different thread about our price. I was worried I would be jinxing myself but it's a done-deal either way (either goes through ROFR or not - I can't influence what happens at this point!). So may as well put it out there: we're at $57pp. Definitely more than many have paid, and especially considering it's practically point-less (:rotfl2: ha!) until 2014 but it's less than some I've seen, and it works for us for a variety of reasons. Also, given the lack of availability, all the ROFR activity, and that prices seem to have risen by $5-$8-ish (I'm guessing/generalizing, but they are definitely higher) at this resort in just the past couple of weeks on the few that are available, I'm beginning to feel better about the price....

ELMC
04-30-2012, 10:33 AM
AllieV asked: Ksl what is the price per point on that contract? I saw a few stripped ones I'm trying to price.

Someone else asked me on a different thread about our price. I was worried I would be jinxing myself but it's a done-deal either way (either goes through ROFR or not - I can't influence what happens at this point!). So may as well put it out there: we're at $57pp. Definitely more than many have paid, and especially considering it's practically point-less (:rotfl2: ha!) until 2014 but it's less than some I've seen, and it works for us for a variety of reasons. Also, given the lack of availability, all the ROFR activity, and that prices seem to have risen by $5-$8-ish (I'm guessing/generalizing, but they are definitely higher) at this resort in just the past couple of weeks on the few that are available, I'm beginning to feel better about the price....

I may have missed it, but what resort did you buy at?

ETA: Never mind, I just saw it in another thread. Good luck on ROFR!

KSL
04-30-2012, 01:04 PM
ELMC: you made me laugh! Sorry, I wrote the two of them so close together they were merging in my mind and I wasn't thinking about what info was where! Hopefully someday soon I'll be able to post on the passing ROFR thread and then will try to remember to include all of the details. I think I am losing brain cells daily with this wait! I was pretty good in the beginning, but the closer it gets to 30 the more anxious I get. Still a good 10 days or so to go. Luckily I have the DIS to keep me busy! Well, that and work..... :rotfl:

AllieV
05-24-2012, 11:45 AM
Wow, I saw two VB contracts ROFRd in the last month. Both were large and both were at $30 pp. Interesting that they're buying those back.

disneynutz
05-24-2012, 11:47 AM
Wow, I saw two VB contracts ROFRd in the last month. Both were large and both were at $30 pp. Interesting that they're buying those back.

They must have buyers and Disney can break the contracts into smaller ones.

:earsboy: Bill

DougEMG
05-24-2012, 11:54 AM
Was just curious to see how many contracts people have lost to ROFR as I'm wondering if I've set a record or something losing 3 OKW contracts to ROFR in the last month. :crazy2::scared::confused3

I also officially given up on trying to buy any more OKW contracts resale.

I'm really really giving up on OKW this time. Just lost my 4th contract at OKW to ROFR. :sad2:

AllieV
05-24-2012, 11:56 AM
They must have buyers and Disney can break the contracts into smaller ones.

:earsboy: Bill

I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been meaning to ask. When disney buys back points, do they start over in one big pool? Or do those original contracts always stay glued together with their UY and set points? What I'm wondering is, if Disney can do it, why can't owners? Why can't an owner add in 25 points to an existing contract or sell off 100 from a 600 point contract?

ELMC
05-24-2012, 11:58 AM
I'm really really giving up on OKW this time. Just lost my 4th contract at OKW to ROFR. :sad2:

Sorry man. But don't give up...then you're letting them beat you. ;)

AllieV
05-24-2012, 11:58 AM
I'm really really giving up on OKW this time. Just lost my 4th contract at OKW to ROFR. :sad2:

Just today? What were those details? I'm telling ya, you are blacklisted at OKW. They don't want to give you too much voting power there :goodvibes Try buying the next one in your dog's name.

ELMC
05-24-2012, 12:00 PM
I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been meaning to ask. When disney buys back points, do they start over in one big pool? Or do those original contracts always stay glued together with their UY and set points? What I'm wondering is, if Disney can do it, why can't owners? Why can't an owner add in 25 points to an existing contract or sell off 100 from a 600 point contract?

The short and unofficial answer is that they can do it because it's their playground, their ball, and they can make the rules. The somewhat longer and somewhat more official answer is because when you buy a contract it is deeded as one contract with X number of points. It is considered to be one unit. When Disney buys back the points they own them again and they are not treated in the same manner. Thus, they have more flexibility as to how them handle them. I'm sure Dean can provide a more detailed explanation, but this is a basic answer to your question.

disneynutz
05-24-2012, 12:03 PM
I'm glad you mentioned that. I've been meaning to ask. When disney buys back points, do they start over in one big pool? Or do those original contracts always stay glued together with their UY and set points? What I'm wondering is, if Disney can do it, why can't owners? Why can't an owner add in 25 points to an existing contract or sell off 100 from a 600 point contract?

Because Disney makes the rules and they don't like sharing. DVC is a business and they make the rules to benefit Disney, not the owners.

My guess is that ROFR has increased because DVD is projecting a shortage of sales inventory due to new construction being delayed.

They may also be trying to make a point to the higher ups that they need freer reign to push forward with future projects. IMO Disney is playing it cautious after the Lewis fiasco.

:earsboy: Bill

AllieV
05-24-2012, 12:11 PM
From the ROFR board by Doug:
Just found out today that Disney exercised their ROFR on my OKW contract. That makes it 4 OKW contracts in a row I've lost.

Details were

OKW 230 DEC UY, $43/point + buyer pays closing + buyer pays half of 2012 MF.

Had 266 2011 points and all points going forward.
Dude, you should be ashamed of getting such a good deal. They're just making an example of you now. ;)

princessaloha
05-24-2012, 01:33 PM
From the ROFR board by Doug:

Dude, you should be ashamed of getting such a good deal. They're just making an example of you now. ;)

ITA! I bet its become a highlight of their week when they see an OKW contract with Doug's name on it. I bet they send out an instant message to gather together in the conference room for the big reveal. Once there, they probably take bets on how low, how big, and if the seller has to pay for everything including the kitchen sink. Then they slowly open the contract and slowly read line by line. The winner squeals in delight while everyone else reminds him that drinks will be on him tonight after work. As they pile out of the conference room and back to their cubby holes, they're all hoping it won't be too long before Doug tries for another OKW contract cause this is fun! :lmao:

Just kidding Doug. Don't give up. It's the highlight of our day too waiting to hear about your contracts. It's actually more exciting than waiting for news abut my own contract.:goodvibes

DougEMG
05-24-2012, 02:41 PM
ITA! I bet its become a highlight of their week when they see an OKW contract with Doug's name on it. I bet they send out an instant message to gather together in the conference room for the big reveal. Once there, they probably take bets on how low, how big, and if the seller has to pay for everything including the kitchen sink. Then they slowly open the contract and slowly read line by line. The winner squeals in delight while everyone else reminds him that drinks will be on him tonight after work. As they pile out of the conference room and back to their cubby holes, they're all hoping it won't be too long before Doug tries for another OKW contract cause this is fun! :lmao:

Just kidding Doug. Don't give up. It's the highlight of our day too waiting to hear about your contracts. It's actually more exciting than waiting for news abut my own contract.:goodvibes

I'm thinking I need to apply for a job at DVC so I can get some kind of comission on all these points I'm bring them :laughing:

I was looking at the totals for those 4 OKW contracts and it came to 1,130 annual points, with 2,656 2011/2012 points on the contracts. All those beautiful points :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:

gatorgirl02
05-24-2012, 04:18 PM
Poor Doug... :sad1:

princesscinderella
05-24-2012, 04:44 PM
I'm thinking I need to apply for a job at DVC so I can get some kind of comission on all these points I'm bring them :laughing:

I was looking at the totals for those 4 OKW contracts and it came to 1,130 annual points, with 2,656 2011/2012 points on the contracts. All those beautiful points :sad1: :sad1: :sad1:

Or a job at fidelity... I'm sure Sharon gets excited when you call because you keep coming back for more.

AllieV
05-24-2012, 05:13 PM
Sent you a pm about an email I got today from a small underknown broker w a good contract

WDWsnooper
05-24-2012, 05:29 PM
OK, so I guess I'm on the flip side of this. I'm GLAD that low ball offers for OKW are not passing ROFR. I have 3 OKW contracts, originally in '91, add-ons in '03 and '09. I feel that the value of my contracts is being somewhat protected by Disney purchasing the contracts. I was thinking of selling one of my contracts because we purchased a small second home in FL and will not need as many points. When making an inquiry, I was told OKW was selling between $52-55 pp. While $43 is a great find, I think you are doing the work for Disney by seeking out great deals for them to grab up. Just sayin....
snoop

DougEMG
05-24-2012, 06:07 PM
OK, so I guess I'm on the flip side of this. I'm GLAD that low ball offers for OKW are not passing ROFR. I have 3 OKW contracts, originally in '91, add-ons in '03 and '09. I feel that the value of my contracts is being somewhat protected by Disney purchasing the contracts. I was thinking of selling one of my contracts because we purchased a small second home in FL and will not need as many points. When making an inquiry, I was told OKW was selling between $52-55 pp. While $43 is a great find, I think you are doing the work for Disney by seeking out great deals for them to grab up. Just sayin....
snoop

I bought an OKW contract 2 years ago that worked out to a similar price per point when taking into account who paid what and how many banked points it came with. I don't think Disney intention is to ever protect the owners. They are probably just accumulating OKW points for their own purpose or because there are enough people wanting it direct. Everything else is just a side benefit for owners. In this case it will work out good for you take advantage of it while you can :)

ELMC
05-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I bought an OKW contract 2 years ago that worked out to a similar price per point when taking into account who paid what and how many banked points it came with. I don't think Disney intention is to ever protect the owners. They are probably just accumulating OKW points for their own purpose or because there are enough people wanting it direct. Everything else is just a side benefit for owners. In this case it will work out good for you take advantage of it while you can :)

Agreed. I haven't seen any evidence that DVD cares in the least about resale values. Remember, the value in the contract is the use, not the sale. That's what the salespeople focus on and that's what they want you to focus on. Very few (if any) timeshare companies focus on the monetary value of a contract or potential exit strategies. In their eyes you are buying the timeshare for one reason and one reason only...to go on vacations.

Oh and Doug...sign me up to as I gave DVD a loaded 210 OKW contract for $41pp all inclusive. Not quite your four, but it still hurts all the same. :)

bdoleary
05-24-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm really really giving up on OKW this time. Just lost my 4th contract at OKW to ROFR. :sad2:

Doug - sorry for you loss of this one as well - glad you had better luck at with your other recent offers.

WDWsnooper
05-24-2012, 10:56 PM
OK, so I guess I'm on the flip side of this. I'm GLAD that low ball offers for OKW are not passing ROFR. I have 3 OKW contracts, originally in '91, add-ons in '03 and '09. I feel that the value of my contracts is being somewhat protected by Disney purchasing the contracts. I was thinking of selling one of my contracts because we purchased a small second home in FL and will not need as many points. When making an inquiry, I was told OKW was selling between $52-55 pp. While $43 is a great find, I think you are doing the work for Disney by seeking out great deals for them to grab up. Just sayin....
snoop


Geeze Louise, as I re-read this, let me clarify. Disney doesn't give a flip about protecting our resale values--they just want to purchase any contracts that are selling for a low price--with only DVD's gain in mind.

I meant to point out that I feel that the result of Disney's purchase of low priced contracts helps me sell at a fair price. Potential resales buyers may pay a little more and sail thru ROFR. The contract that I'm selling is at ROFR now---we'll see if this blows a hole in my theory or not. :confused3

malamida
05-25-2012, 02:51 PM
too funny

AllieV
06-06-2012, 09:02 AM
Out of curiosity, Doug, where is it you want to stay for your month-long trip after retirement? You're buying up okw, ssr, and a couple of boardwalks. Do you already own where you want to be?