Why do people feel the need.....

[Fishbone†]

....to ridicule people who have a different opinion then they do? Why can't a person have a different opinion about something and still be a normal, responsible & contributing citizen. Why am I less of a person if I think through something, and come up with an opinion that is different than yours? Is there a reason you can't state your case without sarcasm or insulting the other person. And, I find it particularly interesting that when one starts the insults, the entire thread fills with "Amens" and "Preach it brothers". One big opposition bashing party - strength in numbers. And, by the way, this goes for both those who hold my opinion and those who don't.

For example, why isn't it okay for me to think Harry Potter is an evil form of literature and entertainment? I've thought through this, read one of the books, and derived my opinion. Does that make me less of a person, or is that just my right? And if I so choose to express that opinion in whatever form (without insulting the intelligence of the opposition), is that my right, or have I over-stepped my bounds? I don't go around saying that those who read Harry Potter or celebrate Santa Claus (which by the way, I choose not to) are idiots and ridiculous nor do I even think it...... but if I did, what possible good can come of expressing it? I just find other forms of entertainment more to my liking. To each his own.

In anything that people feel that strongly about, neither a debate nor name-calling will change the minds of those who have drawn a line in the sand, so what's the point. A friendly discussion on the topic can be interesting, educational and fun, but finger-pointing and sarcasm isn't necessary.

This is NOT a debate or plug for my views on Harry Potter..... I could care less what you think or read or do .... one way or the other. This just happened to be the topic on the thread that spurred my feelings.

I am now donning my fire-suit..... keep in mind, you have the right to your opinion the same as I do, but there is no call for personal insults.

[Saffron]

I don't know, but if you find out the answer, will you let me know? I've been trying to figure it out forever! :D :D

[JasonLyons]

hey

[browneyes]

I am now donning my fire-suit..... keep in mind, you have the right to your opinion the same as I do, but there is no call for personal insults.

I totally agree with that. I think some people just like to belittle others to make themselves seem like they're the better person. It's a self-esteem issue. One that bullies use to make themselves look like idiots.

I think differently about HP than you do, but I respect your opinion, as I assume you do me as well. To each his or her own.:)

[janette]

I agree that there is no reason to insult anyone.

I don't have the same opinion about HP and the only problem I have with anyone who has a different opinion are the ones that try to get it banned from libraries or schools. As long as I'm free to choose for myself & my children I don't mind anyones opinion. :)

[Fishbone†]

Well, I respect everbody BUT you Browneyes..... you on the other-hand, I just can't respect. I mean, afterall, you like tomatoes, and I think that's just plain stupid..... what kind of person LIKES tomatoes?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: No person in their right-mind could have tasted a tomato and said "Yum, this is good". That just goes to prove you're less of a person than I am! :eek:

;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;)

[WillyJ]

I whole-heartedly agree with you Fishbone. . I know there have been times when I've posted things that were less then kind and respectful of other views. . but mostly I try to state my opinon without tearing down any opposing ones. .

In the recent "Harry Potter" thread, I did criticize the book-burning, but not anyone who felt that the book was wrong for them or their children to read. . :)

[browneyes]

Originally posted by Fishbone†
Well, I respect everbody BUT you Browneyes..... you on the other-hand, I just can't respect. I mean, afterall, you like tomatoes, and I think that's just plain stupid..... what kind of person LIKES tomatoes?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: No person in their right-mind could have tasted a tomato and said "Yum, this is good". That just goes to prove you're less of a person than I am! :eek:

;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;)
You do know I have a thing against fish, don't you?;) I don't touch the stuff. But I could eat tomatoes all day long.:) Oooh, or eat a reece's cup with a tomato juice chaser.;)

Am I in my right mind?;)

[debster812]

Ummmm, Shannon...BLECHHHHH Peanut Butter Cup with Tomato Juice? ICK!

Fishybone†--I am another who does not share your opinion on HP, and go figure, we like each other! :gasp: You have formed an opinion, that seems very well thought out. Just something that we will have to agree to disagree on.

(that and mini-meets at the airport ;) )

[Fishbone†]

I don't have a problem with them putting it in the schools and libraries as a choice for someone.... I do feel strongly, however, that since it is so controversial, and there are strong stances on either side, that it should NOT be required reading, or even read in the classroom. This is happening in my niece's classroom (5th grade), and she has read the first one, and chosen, on her own, to stand against it. Isn't there something less disputed they could read? I also feel that the criteria should be the same for all literature and books.... if we can't ban this one, why can we ban the Bible, or Huckleberry Finn or any others that have caused such controversy?

Just a question.

[Dan Murphy]

I can't help in an HP discussion, Heidi, never read it, never saw the movie, have no idea of the story. But I do agree 100% with what you are saying about the insults and sarcasm. I do know there are a few people on these boards though, that may be able to explain why they feel it is okay to do what you say is wrong, and I think most here would also agree is wrong...........to ridicule people who have a different opinion then they do? Why can't a person have a different opinion about something and still be a normal, responsible & contributing citizen. Why am I less of a person if I think through something, and come up with an opinion that is different than yours? Is there a reason you can't state your case without sarcasm or insulting the other person.......

[browneyes]

Originally posted by debster812
Ummmm, Shannon...BLECHHHHH Peanut Butter Cup with Tomato Juice? ICK!
Did Heidi whisper in your ear to say that?;)

I still can't understand why they banned Bibles/Religious stuff out of schools. If someone can have the choise NOT to be involved in the Bible/Religion, why do they deny those that chose TO be involved?

I'm not into HP stuff. My dd and my mom are though. They can't get enough of HP. I overlook their HP obsession, they overlook my Mickey Mouse obsession.:teeth:

[nativetxn]

I loved the Harry Potter books and I read them all. I can't wait for the new one to hit the book stores.

I can be friends and pleasant with someone who doesn't approve of the Harry Potter books. That is a small thing and not important enough to interfere with a friendship.

I agree that one should be able to hold an opinion without being treated badly by others who may disagree.

[Fishbone†]

Oh Debster, we definitely DO NOT agree on mini-meets in the airport!! I'm still sitting here on the Gold Concourse with my lap-top wondering what in the world is keeping you.... I'm sure the flight was delayed or something beyond your control. Afterall, it couldn't possibly have been your choice to stand me up..... I'm just sure you'll be here any minute.

Yeah nativetxn, we can be friends..... just bring "The Adventures of Pooh" when you come visit. ;)

[Ricola]

While I certainly don't approve of personal attacks, I have often observed that someone who holds an opinion that is greatly in the minority on a particular thread can easily feel like they are being attacked, when the majority of posters are really just disagreeing with them.

We all have different styles of communicating, and sometimes it is easy to feel offended by those whose style may be more confrontational than others.



As for peanut butter and tomatoes... I think it sounds good. I'll have to try it some time. ;)

[Fishbone†]

We all have different styles of communicating, and sometimes it is easy to feel offended by those whose style may be more confrontational than others.

It was only my point that the confrontation doesn't need to be personal. I wasn't actually on the thread, just reading it, but personal shots like the following aren't necessary or constructive in my opinion.

Don't these people have anything better to do???

Maybe they find this a worthy cause.... I know a lot of people that spend time on something they find important that I don't and vice versa.

Or...

The really OUGHT to get their priorities straight!

It is my humble opinion that they do have their priorities straight, but in reality it's none of my business or anyone else's to prioritize someone else's priorities. I can run my own desk, thank you.

Or....

Why do people have to over analyze everything???

They very possibly thought this through very thoroughly, as I hope everyone who holds a strong opinion one way or the other did. It would be a shame to die on a hill of opinion that you haven't educated yourself in.

Or sarcasm like....

Guess all us Methodists are doomed now too.

I read the article, that wasn't said, nor even implied that I could see.

Maybe I'm just tired and sensitive..... either way, this has been a good discussion.
(With the exception of a few tomato references..... BROWNEYES!) :rolleyes: ;)

[Ricola]

Fish,

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to defend attacks such as the ones you just quoted. I am only suggesting that sometimes it not so much the content of peoples' responses that can hurt someone with a differing opinion, but rather the quantity of disagreeing responses.

I also believe that one or two attacks thrown in amongst a score of responses can initially make all the "disagreeing" responses seem to be attacks.

I am sure that in my time here I have been on both sides of discussions like this; sometimes in the majority, and often in the minority. For me, being in the minority can certainly be frustrating and discouraging.

:)

[Beanie]

I can't help in an HP discussion, Heidi, never read it, never saw the movie, have no idea of the story.

LOL Dan! I am so glad to know I am not the only one who hasn't read/seen this! I actually have no desire to either! :p

[snoopy]

I can be friends and pleasant with someone who doesn't approve of the Harry Potter books. That is a small thing and not important enough to interfere with a friendship.


I agree wholeheartedly, Kath. I just can't see getting worked up over something someone else believes. I know what I like (the HP books being one of the things I like) but I sure don't care what anyone else thinks. Certainly not to the point where I want to make them feel bad for their beliefs.

[Mamu]

Fishbone I have no idea what has happened to cause you such sadness. I do believe we all have the right to think and express are opinions on certain subjects without being attacked.

We sometimes think our own thoughts are the only correct ones. Isn't that why our country fought so bravely so we could live in a democracy, where we can live, think and express our views.

So sorry to hear this has happened. I have to say I've probably have done this myself over the years. Not to say the person is wrong, just to say I do not agree with their thoughts. I learning daily that what I type may be hurtful to others.

DH and I have this disagreement daily, my thought and his thoughts are so different. He ultra right, I'm somewhere in the middle leaning to the left.

Pixie Dust heading your way.

[gina2000]

Fishbone, I respect your opinion especially since you've read one of the books and decided they were not for you.

I don't respect anyone who blindly takes the opinion of another (even if it is a respected member of a church) and decides to try to reform the rest of society based on that opinion. Our society is based on freedom and I will uphold that premise for all - you AND me.

Because of the controversial nature of the books, I don't believe they should be read in the classroom. However, I do believe they should be in all libraries, bookstores and movie houses.

And as far as bookburning/slashing is concerned, I consider that a backwards attempt to draw attention to the group, not the items being slashed.

People on BBs get carried away. Piling on seems to be a favorite pastime. I usually ignore it, no matter which side it comes from. No one side is so right that the other has lost their right to speak or have opinions.

[helenabear]

Beanie, you and Dan aren't alone. I haven't read the books, watched the movies or know anything related about them at all. Heidi, I wish I knew the answers you are looking for. I can be friends with people who disagree with me quite easily... as long as they don't attack me. We can respectfully disagree and be fine but I won't stand for truly belittling statements from my friends either. I love diversity and differences of opinions here... I just wish at times they were a little less attacking.

[Pooh93]

Beanie, you and Dan aren't alone. I haven't read the books, watched the movies or know anything related about them

I'm also in your group.

I still can't understand why they banned Bibles/Religious stuff out of schools. If someone can have the choise NOT to be involved in the Bible/Religion, why do they deny those that chose TO be involved?

Agreed!

And Fishbone....{{{HUGS}}} You are such a good person, with a good heart, don't let it get you down.

[snowwhitemom]

I missed the whole HP thread...not that I really could have contributed to this however I did want to give my full hearted support to fishbone on this thread. I could not agree more with what you have said. I so often do not agree with others but I always respect them...always..its the right thing to do. I was always taught that the world would be a boring place if we all felt the same.....that I agree to. Fishbone, excellent post but as always IMPO.:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Tony-NJ]

I, like Dan hav never read any of the books or saw the movie. But there are too many "attacks" here on these boards and it's just plain silly.

[Kilted_Yank]

You don't like Harry Potter?

You, sir, are pure Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil!

Well, ok, maaybe not eveil, just awful and bad.

OK, maybe not awful and bad, just a member of the right-wing conspiracy.

Hmmm, maybe not that either.

Could it be that you are just someone with an opinion?

Bill, never read 'em, don't plan to.

[EROS]

Fishbone, you've touched one of EROS' nerves!!!!! I express strong opinions and counter-opinions around here................Perhaps with an occasional sarcastic quip or two as well. However, members on the DIS somehow interpret attacks upon their opinions as attacks upon themselves.............NOTHING COULD BE FARTHER FROM THE TRUTH :D :D :D :D . People OVER-PERSONALIZE differing opinions expressed by others. If someone disagrees with you on an issue, they're NOT attacking your character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool: :cool:

[Disney Doll]

:wave: Another non-Harry Potter reader. That fantasy-type of stuff doesn't interest me, so I've just never picked up a book. Don't have kids, so don't get exposed via that route either. I do think that if a book is on a reading list and there are several people who have a problem with it, then maybe it should be revisited. If one or two people have a problem with it, then perhaps they should be given an alternative book to read in lieu of the offending one(whether it's Harry Potter or any other book). I do agree with all who say any book should be available in libraries etc for those who wish to read it.

As far as your other question about why are people so attacking sometimes in their responses....well, the Internet is basically a relatively anonymous and therefore safe venue to behave in a way that you might not behave in a face-to-face encounter. My guess would be that the folks who tend to be conitnually attacking and sarcastic on the majority of their posts may not be quite brave enough to behave that way publicly, so they get it out of their system here,anonymously and safely. I don't have a problem with a differing opinion, I usually have a problem with the tone of the post. I guess it's that old adage "it's not what you say, it's how you say it." There are some who feel that their opinions need to be repeated ad nauseum in an obnoxious, sarcastic manner, perhaps in hopes that eventually we will all agree that they are right.

I, unfortunately, have a big mouth, whether it is face-to-face or electronically.;) I do try not to be demeaning though. I don't always succeed, but I do try to be sensitive to others' feelings.

[browneyes]

Originally posted by Fishbone†
(With the exception of a few tomato references..... BROWNEYES!) :rolleyes: ;)

http://www.webdesk.com/tomatoes/tomatoes.jpg

[addicted_to_WDW]

Originally posted by gina2000
Because of the controversial nature of the books, I don't believe they should be read in the classroom. However, I do believe they should be in all libraries, bookstores and movie houses.

I take issue with the "controversial nature of the books." It's fantasy, with the common theme of good versus evil. Should all fantasy be removed from the classroom because someone chooses to be offended by it?

[Disney Doll]

addicted_to_wdw, the books should probably not be removed from the classroom, but I do think that all required reading lists should have a few alternate choices for those people who take issue with a certain book or its theme.

Of course, then the debate could be made that what if someone takes issue with all the books on a list? Then they should be being home-schooled, which is a whole other thread;) !

[DancingBear]

--I agree that we need to have more civil discourse of issues in our society. Earlier this year I moderated a panel discussion for the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce on "Community Planning", with a developer, a town planner, and an outspoken member of the planning commission. I was very proud that, while each of the panel members hold strong opinions on the issues involved, they expressed those opinions thoughtfully and respectfully, and everyone came away with a lot to think about. It struck me afterwards how little of that kind of discourse we see given the nature of cable newstalk shows these days.

--That being said, I also agree that here on the DIS some folks take personal offense when folks strongly disagree with their opinions, even if there is ad hominem attack in the postings. If you post your opinion and ask for others, be prepared for postings by those who strongly disagree with you.

--I haven't read any of the HP books or seen the movie, but I disagree that any book should be banned from a classroom just because it is "controversial". Huckleberry Finn absolutely should be taught in classrooms (at least in the upper grades), and the racial references should be discussed. Grapes of Wrath should not be banned (as it has in some places) because it is "depressing." For my senior high school english class, I had a summer reading list which included the books of Genesis and Job, and other Bible readings, as there are many works of English literature which require some knowledge of the Bible for greater understanding. It was simply amazing to me that the NC legislature passed laws to keep COLLEGE students in NC from having to read certain passages from the Koran---how are we to understand better the almost 2 billion Muslims on this planet unless we are willing to learn about their core beliefs?

[Teejay32]

I haven't read the thread and no matter what's in there and who says what, I really enjoy the Harry Potter series. I don't expect everyone to like HP. That would be silly.

However, in your original post, you do classify it as 'evil', which is a word that provokes a gut reaction from me when I see it used so cavalierly on a community bb. Luckily I don't post gut reactions anymore. ;) The book is a story of good vs. evil, each are clearly defined. We can disagree on the merits of the book and the appropriateness of subject matter and so forth, for people holding other beliefs; however, we've gone beyond that now and classified the whole thing as evil, with the 'fans' (like me) partaking of evil entertainment? That's not only an opinion, it's also a moral judgement and one that I do not respect at all. Why would I? People here need to note the difference - seriously need to learn the difference - between voicing an opinion and passing judgement, and the word 'evil' is a big clue there. One will be respected, the other invites attacks. I don't know you but you sound like a very nice person; I'm sorry that I can't support what you're saying in your OP.

[GEM]

The whole point of your original post is that people have a right to their opinions. I agree with that 100%. They also have a right to express those opinions - even if it hurts your feelings. I don't see any personal attacks on that other thread, just opinions. None of the comments are aimed at you personally, so they can't really be personal attacks. You have a definate right to think Harry Potter is "evil" and I have a definate right to think that idea is "silly". I would never try to stop you from expressing your opinion about it, but I also have a right to express my opinion without sugar-coating it. That's how I feel about it, so that's what I say. I would expect you to to do the same thing. If that's taken as a personal attack, I'm really sorry. It's not meant as an attack. It's meant as an honest opinion. Sometimes people have opinions that differ wildly from one another and sometimes when they feel very strongly about those ideas, they can get their feelings hurt. Getting your feelings hurt is part of having strong opinions. I think we all need to realize that and understand that it's part of life, and not get so worked up every time somebody says something we think is "mean". No body has a right to hit your or kick you or throw things at you. They do, however, have a right to say things that might hurt your feelings. Rather than spend your energy trying to stop them from saying them, spend it trying to toughen up so that it doesn't bother you as much. At least, that's what I do.

[Fishbone†]

This thread wasn't created to debate Harry Potter (if I would have wanted to do that, I would have done that on the original thread), it was created to ask the question "Why can't I have a different opinion without being personally attacked?" And, the thread wasn't created out of sadness or hurt feelings, just a late-night observation. It is obvious that most people don't hold my views on Harry Potter, and that's okay..... I just would prefer they held their views in the way they have held them in this thread, strongly and respectfully.

Teejay, I apologize if my original post elicited the same reaction in you that caused me to create this thread in the first place. That was not my intention.... rather quite the opposite. I do have to clarify though, that I didn't say the book was evil, I simply asked why it wasn't okay for me to think it was evil. Not, "it is evil", but why can't I THINK it's evil.... and I believe that I can..... and can do so without passing judgement on those who enjoy reading them. I know what the book is about, I've read one, and I don't come up with the same basic theme as others do, but that's okay.... most movies, books and even songs speak differently to different people.... it's what makes the world interesting.

And Eros, you don't count, because you're just Eros, and any other reaction from you would be something like a long post from JasonLyons. So go for bud..... flame away!!

Oh, and for Kilted_Yank and any others who didn't know, Fish is a girl!! :) :o ;) :)

[GEM]

Originally posted by Fishbone†

I do have to clarify though, that I didn't say the book was evil, I simply asked why it wasn't okay for me to think it was evil. Not, "it is evil", but why can't I THINK it's evil.... and I believe that I can.....

I certainly didn't see anyone in the original thread or this thread that said you couldn't think that. You are certainly welcome to think that. Lots of people may disagree, but that doesn't mean you can't think whatever you want.

You definately can THINK Harry Potter is "evil". No problem there.

And I definately can THINK that it's ridiculous for you to think that.

That's the way it works. It has to go both ways.

Personally, I don't think there is any such thing as "evil" literature. There's only literature. In my opinion, words can't be evil. I do believe that there is also "bad" literature, but that just means it's badly written! ;)

[CookieGVB]

Originally posted by Teejay32
However, in your original post, you do classify it as 'evil', which is a word that provokes a gut reaction from me when I see it used so cavalierly on a community bb. Luckily I don't post gut reactions anymore. ;) The book is a story of good vs. evil, each are clearly defined.

Good post, Teejay.

Good vs. evil is a subject in MANY Disney movies, as well...was Aladdin something evil, because of the genie's magic involved? What about Mickey in the Sorceror's Apprentice? I wonder if people would throw the word "evil" around if the Harry Potter books were turned into animated Disney movies instead of live action movies?

Something to consider.

[gina2000]

Originally posted by addicted_to_WDW
I take issue with the "controversial nature of the books." It's fantasy, with the common theme of good versus evil. Should all fantasy be removed from the classroom because someone chooses to be offended by it?


The controversial nature has nothing to do with the books' classification. The fantasy genre encompasses many different aspect of the imagination, not just the subject of wizardry. Because some people have taken it as a direct affront to their religious beliefs, however, I believe it is best left up to parents, not educators, to decide whether or not it is appropriate reading for their children.

Personally I have no problem with the books - I've read them each a few times and have encouraged my son to read and discuss them. I won't, however, decide what is appropriate for another household.

[Kilted_Yank]

Originally posted by Fishbone†


"Oh, and for Kilted_Yank and any others who didn't know, Fish is a girl!!"

Oops! Sorry.

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by Fishbone†
Not, "it is evil", but why can't I THINK it's evil.... and I believe that I can..... and can do so without passing judgement on those who enjoy reading them. I know what the book is about, I've read one, and I don't come up with the same basic theme as others do, but that's okay.... most movies, books and even songs speak differently to different people.... it's what makes the world interesting.

Because of the nature of the term, maybe. I don't know what your definition of 'evil' is, but mine is "morally reprehensible, offensive, disgusting" and so forth. Evil is the strongest possible insult to someone or something. I just wouldn't make the effort to have a friendly disagreement with someone who believes that something that I think is good, is really evil. Why bother. Now that's another story...some people bother to argue and make those judgements back onto the person(s) assigning the evil. That's probably just as bad, but it's not exactly unfair.

That's all, thanks for your time.

[C.Ann]

I like different viewpoints - when presented in a friendly manner.. Sometimes I even change my mind about things based on additional information and valid arguments.. :)

I don't like name-calling, sarcasm, and hurling insults..

I just finished reading a very troublesome thread and was practically in tears by the end of it.. If I can't help someone without turning it into a personal attack, I'd rather just keep my mouth shut..

That's just me though....

Carry on! ;)